UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/Iscariot and The Order of Philosophe Knights vs Sarah Aline and The Upper Left Corner
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Iscariot and The Order of Philosophe Knights versus Sarah Aline and The Upper Left Corner
This case is being brought over the location page for Southall Mansion. There is a dispute to the content of that page. The Order of Philosophe Knights have attempted to establish a consensus for the page and enter into dialogue to resolve the dispute. The Order has been ignored by the Upper Left Corner and its addition either summarily reverted or altered into a derogatory format.
Given the history of automatic reversions by the ULC and the lack of response to our attempts to amicably resolve the situation, the Order has decided to pursue arbitration in order to prevent the inevitable edit war and disruption to the community.
I am the Order's designated representative in this matter.
The Order will await the initial ULC response before beginning the arbitrator selection process, however given past dealings, the Order will not accept any member of the Administration team. -- 
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. <== DDR Approved Editor 21:43, 27 August 2008 (BST)
- As the Upper Left Corner seem to show no interest in debating this in any form and thus ensuring harmony on this wiki, I have rendered the page in question as a basic entry, removing all content that caused arguments.
- I will leave this case open if ULC decide to respond. --
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. <== DDR Approved Editor 17:38, 4 September 2008 (BST)
- Thank you for the offer Ashley, but looking through your edit history I cannot see enough edits to procedural pages to entrust this case to you. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:50, 25 September 2008 (BST)
- Thank you for the offer Ashley, but looking through your edit history I cannot see enough edits to procedural pages to entrust this case to you. --
The edit history clearly shows that ULC is aware of this case, it must be assumed then that they are deliberately ignoring wiki procedure and attempting to force an edit war. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:50, 25 September 2008 (BST)
Ok, I'm here. What exactly do you want? The "drama" causing bit has been removed, and I've reworded a section of the page so it sounds nice... Note that there is NO drama in it. Yet you people continue to change it for NO reason. Stop trying to cause drama. Also, I approve of Ash being the arbitrator. Your condescending attitude is not appreciated, Iscariot. -S Aline 05:03, 26 September 2008 (BST)
The next stage is to select an arbitrator. I reject Ash for the reasons already given. The Order will accept Gus Thomas or J3D. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 07:25, 26 September 2008 (BST)
- Seems fairly straight fwd, i'll do it if Sarah is fully willing to participate as it seems that she's been reluctant to come to arbies about the issue, so sarah if you aren't - don't choose me as the arby-er please. --xoxo 07:41, 26 September 2008 (BST)
- I honestly don't see the point in an arbitration since the part under discussion has been removed from the page, but J3D is fine by me. -S Aline 14:31, 26 September 2008 (BST)
Iscariot, a confirmation please then i'll fire this baby up.--xoxo 15:12, 26 September 2008 (BST)
- By all means J3D, go ahead. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 16:36, 26 September 2008 (BST)
The Beginning
Alright, i haven't read up fully on the issue so act like i know nothing on the topic. We'll go in the standard Iscariot, Sarah, Me, Iscariot, Sarah, Me format. Umm the only concern i can think of that might arise is if this issue has been around since before Kevan wiped the page histories, by the look of things it hasn't but if it has i'm gonna have to ask you to try and avoid mentioning anything that can't be sourced, anyway we'll deal with that if we come to it. If you need to contact me outside of your sections on this page - talk page plz.--xoxo 01:35, 27 September 2008 (BST)
Iscariot
Only a short opening statement. This case stems from months of activity on the Southall Mansion page. In that time multiple edits by The Order Philosophe Knights were reverted, altered and ignored by S Aline. After repeated attempts to establish a consensus through the talk page, I became aware of the situation and was nominated by the Order to attempt to resolve this through wiki channels.
The Order is named in this case, with myself as the representative and is against the Upper Left Corner with S Aline as their representative. The Order seeks to prevent members of the ULC from editing the page in question permanently. Given the amount of time this page has been treated as personal property by members of the ULC, ignoring established wiki procedure and attacking other users, we feel this is the only acceptable result for this arbitration.
Given the fact that the page histories have been wiped I will be unable to present individual reverts to the page. However I have anticipated this and the Order will present its evidence through the dated signatures on talk pages and news posts and the testimony of witnesses involved in the dispute.
-- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 15:00, 29 September 2008 (BST)
S Aline
Considering that I have agreed upon the removal of the "drama" from the page, I don't see a point to banning me or any members from editing a page. Who knows when we may have important news to post upon it? And by Iscariot's logic, their group should also be banned from editing the page as well, since they were the ones who started the editing war and quite obviously partook in it. Any edits made since then were simply to beautify the page, and had no "drama" in the edits. (For example, rewording the description of the location.) These edits were taken down hastily by the Philisophe Knights for reasons I am unaware of.
All the Upper Left Corner would like is a mention on the wiki page of Southall Mansion's importance to our group. I daren't say it's unreasonable to simply say that; and we can agree that any group who finds Southall Mansion important to them can say so as well. We at the Upper Left Corner are not interested in causing any drama, and find this to be a reasonable solution.
I would also like to apologize if I offended any members of the Philisophe Knights by any comments I made. My comments were not meant to be hurtful, though there have been some mean spirited comments posted by Philisophe Knights to and about me.
-S Aline 22:46, 7 October 2008 (BST)
The Middle
Alright Iscariot present your case with links now, also i want to know specifically what you are adverse to them adding to the page. Sarah as well as rebutting Iscariot, please explain what you'd like to add to the page and why you think it should be there.--xoxo 01:13, 8 October 2008 (BST)
Iscariot
Firstly I shall rebut points from S Aline's opening statement. At no point has she "agreed upon the removal of the "drama" from the page", the 'drama as she so puts it was removed by myself after I had to get involved. Only this arbitration case and the page being under a state of protection have stopped her from making more contentious edits and attempting once again to take ownership of a community page.
"And by Iscariot's logic, their group should also be banned from editing the page as well, since they were the ones who started the editing war and quite obviously partook in it." S Aline's interpretation of 'my logic' is flawed. The Order and its representatives have attempted to render the page as acceptable according to community standards and policy. When this has been in dispute the matter has been taken to the talk page. It is S Aline's and the ULC's failure to follow this basic wiki convention that has caused this case, the Order has at all times followed these statutes.
"These edits were taken down hastily by the Philisophe Knights for reasons I am unaware of." I reverted edits by S Aline for purposes of community information. Whilst she may dislike the page being less simpering and pretty to her eyes, the inclusion of the mansion's coordinates is of great use to players in the game. Also these edits came after the beginning of this case, wiki convention clearly shows that no more edits should have been made to the page after the process of arbitration has begun by any of the involved parties. Again S Aline ignores the established community consensus.
Secondly, I will now demonstrate S Aline's previous conduct on the page and why I believe she has no intention of reforming as a productive contributer to the page.
She says on this page "we can agree that any group who finds Southall Mansion important to them can say so as well. We at the Upper Left Corner are not interested in causing any drama" whereas her actions previously on the talk page show things differently.
On the talk page in response to my informing the community as to why I'd rendered the page as a basic location her response was "Still bawwing?", hardly the response of someone looking for a community consensus.
Before the original talk page was archived, or even organised, S Aline took it upon herself to place headers on other people's comments in a way that amused herself. Citizen M posted regarding a dispute to the page content (the correct method to resolve a dispute) not only was he ignored but a header was placed above his comment by S Aline. Editing in the manner is a clear case of impersonation according to precedent on A/VB, impersonation is vandalism and bad faith editing.
Later the same month S Aline posts a generic response, of note is the following phrase "Why wouldn't it be in favour of the upper left corner? Southall Mansion is property of the Upper Left Corner, after all." Southall Mansion is a community page, S Aline clearly claims ownership of this whilst the content is disputed. Not only is this a breach of page ownership policy, but it is done in a way that intentionally causes drama.
Fast forward to July 2008 and the content is still in dispute. Professor DT attempts to compromise. Not only does he rewrite the contention but he does so to include every major group in the history of Southall. This linked section is direct evidence as it contains a copy of the revised section forwarded by DT. S Aline did not accept this compromise and began reverting the page.
After nearly two weeks of reverting she actually wrote [Southall_Mansion/Talk_Archive#Don.27t_Rewrite_History|a response on the talk page]]. Of note is this comment by S Aline "Oh, and I edited the 'Fact' I wrote, to include the philisophe knights and zom. Happy now? Sheeeesh." Not only is this hardly conducive to community consensus, it establishes that at the time S Aline had separated the page into two distinct sections labelled 'Fact' and 'Fiction'. The fact section contained her preferred edit whilst every other contributer was moved to the fiction section. Another clear attempt to exercise page ownership authority on a community page.
Order representatives responded to S Aline's comments in an articulate manner. For this they were told "Stop being such cry babies." I trust I do not have to further explain the problem with such comments.
Order representative then noted that the problem may have been caused by a clash of personalities, the Order suggested that perhaps other members of the two groups should discuss this. Jelly Otter was forwarded by DT as a known member of ULC who could conduct the ULC's interests. It was around this point that the dispute came to my attention.
After a week of silence from the ULC I posted the final response to that section detailing the Order's intended course of action if the ULC continued their methods.
This case was opened on the 27th August, it took S Aline a full month to actually acknowledge this process even though she was otherwise active on the wiki and had been informed of this case's existence. S Aline has no intention of respecting community consensus or any established procedure, her history of this is evident. Accordingly the Order sees no choice but to maintain its original calls from its opening statement.
Although the edit history has been wiped, I can provide other users as witnesses to everything I have stated if the arbitrator so requires.
Further to the 'ownership' of the mansion, there has been no indication of a ULC presence since the Philosophe Knights returned to the mansion in the early summer.
I'd like to note that throughout this dispute the Order has maintained wiki policy and procedure. Unlike other groups we did not take this dispute into the game in order to maintain good faith and reduce the amount of drama caused.
Thirdly, the Order is adamant that the rest of the ULC be also excluded from editing the page. In conversations with members of the ULC it is clear that S Aline rules the group in an autocratic manner and if told members would feel compelled to breach wiki policy to enforce edits required of them by her. I am willing to provide evidence of this privately to the arbitrator if required.
Finally, the Order is able to call multiple witnesses, as well as groups, to support its case if such is necessary. The facts I have delivered in this section are indicative of the ULC's conduct on that page and we hope for the logical ruling. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 11:54, 22 October 2008 (BST)
Sarah
Since Iscariot's bit was very much tl;dr, I am still sticking with what I said before. All I'd like is a mention on the wiki page of how it's an important part of the ULC's history. What was posted before the last revert or something along those lines is all. Is it so much to ask? I'm not interested in Iscariot's petty wiki drama, since I don't wiki much. (Also why I don't know wiki rules, etc.) And sorry for taking so long; my computer was out of service for some time.
-S Aline 21:22, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
The End
Okay, first off this is a really minor issue that should have been brought to arbies long ago rather than blowing up into talk page insulting etc. Obviously I'll ask you both to avoid posting on each other's talk pages or responding to each other on any other page unless it is absolutely necessary, if it's nothing to do with you, stay out of it!! This also goes for all other ULC and PK members.
In relation to the page, Sarah, you and all members of the ULC are restricted to editing the Recent News section of the Southall Mansion page and of course you can still edit the building status as that's a different page. While you can edit these sections i expect you to largely ignore the PK and not attempt to flair up more dramas with your edits.
In addition to this the Southall Mansion page is a community page and groups should be allowed to mention their group on the page, if indeed they are relevant there. Thus there will be a new section on the page headed Groups or Mansion Groups or whatever under which people can post their groups name and a short (one line max) blurb about whatever they want. eg. 'Southall Mansion will always be considered an important place for The Upper Left Corner.' or whatever. Under no circumstances should either party edit the other group's entry or contact the other party, if they are breaking the arby ruling bring it to me or a/vb if i'm not around.
That seems like i've addressed everything. Sarah if you or the ULC want anything added to the page outside of this please contact me about it. Any feedback/comments/criticism/praise to the talk page or my talk page please. --xoxo 01:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
