https://wiki.urbandead.com/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Dragonshardz&feedformat=atomThe Urban Dead Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T05:40:45ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.37.1https://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:Suburb&diff=2428616Talk:Suburb2024-03-15T19:39:35Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Proposal for Active and Dead */</p>
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<div>{| style="margin-left:12px; border:solid 1px #CCD; background-color:#EEF" align=right<br />
| __TOC__<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/archive|Suburb Archive]]'''<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/Archive|Suburb Archive 2]]'''<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/Archive 3|Suburb Archive 3]]'''<br />
|}<br />
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=Reporting Guidelines=<br />
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<br />
==How to Update a Suburb Danger Report==<br />
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First find the report you wish to update, you can search for it by typing "User:DangerReport/''Suburb''" in the search box. You can also find it listed in this category, just scroll to the bottom of the page. The is also a link listed on each suburb's page in the template on the right. It can be found just below the 9-suburb map.<br />
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You then need to change the <tt>|Danger=</tt> variable to one of the possible statuses. You can briefly explain the reason for the change in the edit summary. Longer explanations are best left on the page of the suburb in question under the news section, or on the [[suburb]] page under the reports section.<br />
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===Example===<br />
:[[Example page|Example User]] wants to change the danger level of [[Hollomstown]] from '''moderately dangerous''' to '''safe''', since they have scouted that suburb and found almost no zombies outside, and no PKing activity was reported for some time.<br />
:[[Example page|Example User]] then goes to the [[Hollomstown]] page and follows this link: [[User:DangerReport/Hollomstown|Update Hollomstown's Danger Level]] which leads to the danger report page for Hollomstown.<br />
:Now they changes the danger variable from <tt>'''|Danger=moderately dangerous'''</tt> to <tt>'''|Danger=safe'''</tt><br />
:They can then note the change on the [[Hollomstown#Recent News|Hollomstown]] page in the news section.<br />
:{{Code|May 10th - No zombie or pking activity in this suburb. This suburb is now safe. --[[Example page|Example User]] 16:25, 13 August 2006 (BST)}} <br />
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If a suburb is deemed noteworthy, change <tt>|Notority=normal</tt> to <tt>|Notority=notable</tt> and this will bold the suburb's name on map output.<br />
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=Reporting discussion=<br />
==A disputed report==<br />
<small>Moved from the main page</small><br />
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'''[[Lukinswood]]''' almost half the buildings are under zed control it should be dangerous --[[User:Zombieman 11|Zombieman 11]] 19:25, 22 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:This report was completely fabricated. The suburb was no more ruined the day of the report than Zombieman 11 is a saint. This section is bullocks. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 04:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
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i know it wasnt ruined but from a short scout alot of trp were zed homes not ruined yet--[[User:Zombieman 11|Zombieman 11]] 21:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Lukinswood doesn't have "alot" of TRPs. The few that it has were not recently broken into, either. Unless you are referring to [[The Coram Building]] (not technically a TRP) which has been subject to repeated zerg rushes for the last eight or nine months. Stop misleading people. In fact, stop using the Suburb page to post reports. It's retarded to keep posting reports there. Use the news section of the respective suburb pages or just update the damn danger level. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 01:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
I'm moving this here since the report is clearly disputed and apparently with good reason. There's no sense in confusing people. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:52, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
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=Noteworthy Suburbs=<br />
==Simple Guidelines for Noteworthiness==<br />
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For a suburb to be able to be called ''Noteworthy'', important events on the history of Malton must have happened on it. The place where hordes were born, important sieges, or events that gained attention from the entire community.<br />
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*'''An important and unique event must have happened in the suburb'''<br />
:Events like [[Stanstock]], the [[First Siege of Caiger Mall|first]] and [[Second Siege of Caiger Mall|second]] sieges of [[Caiger Mall]] are nice examples of unique events that marked history. The first united the entire urban dead community, and the second and third were HUGE sieges where survivor-kind won against the hordes. Events like the [[Mall Tour]] and the [[Big Bash]], on the other hand, doesn't make a suburb noteworthy, as several burbs took part of this event.<br />
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*'''An important and/or historical group was formed in that suburb'''<br />
:When a group manages to draw the attention of the entire community or influence the gameplay centers his actions around a burb of birth, that suburb can be called noteworthy. Examples of this are [[Ridleybank]] and [[Yagoton]]. The first is the infamous homeland of zombie-kind, homeland of the [[Ridleybank Resistance Front]], while the second is the home of the [[Yagoton Revivification Clinic]], the first and most famous group dedicated to revivification.<br />
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*'''A unique and noteworthy building exists in this suburb'''<br />
:This usually doesn't make a suburb noteworthy at all, unless important events on the history of Malton happened there. Resiting two huge sieges inside [[Caiger Mall]] make that unique building noteworthy, while having the only Zoo in the city isn't noteworthy as nothing important of note happened there.<br />
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Note that merely fitting in any of these categories doesn't automatically make a suburb noteworthy. It still needs the approval of the community. Nominate and discuss a suburb in the below header.<br />
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==Nominations==<br />
Add your nominations here for noteworthy suburbs.<br />
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[[Talk:Suburb/Nomination Archive|Suburb/Nomination Archive]]<br />
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=Danger colors discussion=<br />
All discussions pertaining to the suburb color system and proposals for new maps<br />
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{{MA|Talk:Suburb/Color System Discussion|Suburb/Color System Discussion}}<br />
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[[Talk:Suburb/Color System Archive|Suburb/Color System Archive]]<br />
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==Proposal for Active and Dead==<br />
I am proposing two new color status, Active and Dead. These are to indicate areas that are mostly safe or mostly a ghost town, yet have persistent human and zombie activity that is not represented by any of the other colors/descriptions, and is important for players to be aware of. <br />
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These cover suburbs that have an active tug of war and are either predominantly in survivor hands, or predominantly in zombie hands. Typically a targeted persistent insurgency is happening, which makes death a daily occurrence, but in the case of zombie controlled, its neither a ghost town nor very dangerous, and in the case of survivor controlled, its neither safe, intact, nor dangerous. One could argue for Moderately Dangerous/Dangerous/Very Dangerous, but I will argue below that these are not accurate representations, since the majority of the suburb is safe, and the attack on the suburb is insurgent in nature (Sporadic / Targeted). <br />
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<b>Argument for Dead</b> - Mostly ruined, with occupying zombies and persistent human insurgency.<br />
*Not Safe - Location is not intact, human and zombie activity.<br />
*Not Moderately Dangerous - There is a major horde (15+ zombies in the burb?) but spread out / lethargic, not active, not breaking in.<br />
*Not Intact - It is 95% ruined, with zombies.<br />
*Not Dangerous - Many of the resource buildings are unoccupied (timed out?), hostile zombies but not an active mob/horde.<br />
*Not A Ghost Town - There is a significant zombie occupation (15+?) and significant human insurgency (2+ suicide repairs a day?).<br />
*Not Very Dangerous - Most buildings are open and not zombie infested, there is not a massive zombie mob. Survivors could spend days wandering around without incident.<br />
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<b>Argument for Active</b> - Mostly intact, with occupying survivors and persistent zombie insurgency.<br />
*Not Safe - It is 95% intact, inhabited by survivors, lit buildings, but certain people/buildings are likely to regularly die.<br />
*Not Moderately Dangerous - There is a major horde (15+ zombies in the burb?) but attacks are targeted / periodic. Survivors could spend days wandering around without incident.<br />
*Not Intact - There is a survivor population (15+ survivors in the burb?)<br />
*Not Dangerous - Most resource buildings are secure, attacks are a targeted insurgency, most of the burb is safe.<br />
*Not A Ghost Town - It is 95% intact and there is a significant survivor occupation and a persistent zombie insurgency.<br />
*Not Very Dangerous - Most buildings are intact and not zombie occupied, there is a persistent zombie insurgency not a massive zombie mob.<br />
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<b>For Reference:</b><br />
*Safe - Structurally intact and inhabited by survivors, with numerous lit buildings, and few to no zombies.<br />
*Moderately Dangerous - Active zombies and break-ins, but no major hordes.<br />
*Intact - Structurally intact with few zombies, but a very low survivor population and few to no lit buildings.<br />
*Dangerous - Zombies inside many resource buildings and/or significant hostile mobs.<br />
*A Ghost Town - Mostly or entirely ruined, and devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations.<br />
*Very Dangerous - Most buildings wide open or zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs.<br />
{{unsigned|MrMap|18:28, 26 November 2023}}<br />
:The danger levels have been an on-off hot topic over the decades. I'm not sure that adding more danger levels in addition to what is already present would be useful, like splitting hairs. But there could be an argument for simplifying to an "Active" (there's action happening here) vs. "Inactive" (nothing much going on), although you'd lose the ruined/intact info. There's some historic interest in making the danger levels not survivor-centric (i.e., not dangerous or safe from the perspective of a survivor). So that's often a discussion that's been had when any changes to the danger levels have been made or discussed. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)<br />
::The previous danger level discussions have all been abandoned or implemented already and the vast majority here should be archived to another page as its mostly clutter at this point. The changes that made it through where incremetal changes, like adding intact, and so this is following in the footsteps of what has worked. The idea is differentiating active burbs that are either in zombie control or survivor control. They both could be argued as very dangerous, or moderately dangerous, but the burbs are in completely different situations, and we have no way to indicate that. Instead ghost towns have been used for zombie occupied dangerous, and survivor occupied range from safe to very dangereous with no decernable way to choose one. If the wiki is not able to provide understandable accurate information, what is the point?{{unsigned|MrMap|00:19, 2 December 2023}}<br />
:::I like the idea on the new colors, not sold on the descriptions. Dead is Safe for Zombies (Easy to stand back up and reclaim buildings), Very Dangerous for Survivors (Assuming they repair a building). Active is Safe for Survivors (Easy to get a revive and reclaim buildings), Very Dangerous for Zombies (Assuming they break into a building). -- [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
::::Theres 0 reason to add new danger levels to the map other than you just wanting a special tag for you and your group to throw around. Dunnel Hills is indeed a ghost town until you decide to log in your inactive alts because someone did something major. -[[User:Matahashi|Matahashi]]<br />
:::::How about you contribute something constructive? I spent a long time writing up a comprehensive proposal explaining why these new colors are needed. The current colors do not properly communicate the situation on the ground. A ghost town is empty, but there are several suburbs that are ruined but not empty. Safe typically has minimal to no break ins, but there are several suburbs that are clearly in survivor control but have an active tug of war. Your conspiracy theories and animosity are not valid arguments nor productive discussion. {{unsigned|MrMap|18:09, 14 December 2023}}<br />
::::::Hello. There is no consensus to change the Suburb danger scheme, so don't input your own version of the danger statuses. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:53, 15 December 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Do you have a specific counter proposal other then going to a binary active/inactive, which you seem to also be against due to the loss of info? Incremental changes seem to be the only thing that works here, we have ruined/caded while devoid of players, but we don't have ruined/caded with active combat. As you say, its all survivor point of view with no indication of cade status. What do we need to arrive at consensus? When bob made the proposal for intact on April 11th, he waited until the 14th when he bumped discussion and one person responded. Then on the 18th he made the changes. Currently we have an "I'm not sure" a "Yes" and a "No" vote from someone whose sole contribution to the wiki is to revert other people's updates. I'd argue that vote is not in good faith, that they are not actually evaluating the merits of the proposal, and are jumping to conclusions based on bias, but whatever. We have a vote from The Dead (ZPatriot) and we have a vote from Soldiers of Crossman (Matahashi), so I think we should consider them team representatives, instead of getting into some pissing contest to see who can recruit the most members of their team to dog pile the vote. As the only other person engaging in the discussion, it seems like you have the tie breaking vote. Or maybe we need to get bob in here to give it an eval/pov? {{unsigned|MrMap|21:42, 15 December 2023}}<br />
::::::::There was apparently discussion on Discord on the "Intact" level in addition to what was written on the wiki. A good way to test whether there is consensus after discussion is to implement the changes and see what happens. In Bob's case, the changes did not provoke dissent and many members of the wiki have used the Intact level in the following years. In your case, changes have been reverted within the day, so it does not appear that the changes have consensus. It could be that people are not interested in changing the system at all, or they just don't agree with these specific proposed changes. Personally, my preferred system is something that captures three things in an unbiased way: (1) survivor numbers, (2) zombie numbers, and (3) infrastructure (i.e., 'cades, ruins, lighting). But the main issue to overcome in implementing this is finding a way to retain the at-a-glance simplicity with the current design. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::The revert was made out of ignorance and then spite. If your requirement is unanimity, certainly we should not include the voice whose only contribution to the wiki is to harass other people. While I am happy to explore and try to solidify a proposal that meets your desires, it is clear that a full revamp will be much harder to reach consensus on, so I'd like to focus on what can be tweaked in this proposal to make it more agreeable. Dead and Active do in fact communicate some of the info you are looking for, particularly low cades with sizable zombie population and high cades with sizeable zombie population, neither of which we can currently communicate. Best current options are very dangerous for no cades zombie controlled and dangerous for mostly caded survivor controlled.{{unsigned|MrMap|00:07, 17 December 2023}}<br />
::::::::::While I agree Matahashi is a troll and the wiki decision making is as broken as democratic politics can be, I don't agree with marking everything as very dangerous. There would need to be a significant survivor population. Maybe make a new color for moderately dangerous but in zombie control? [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
:::::::::I'd just give it a number system, with pretty little icons and color coding. Scale of 0-10 for each statistic - 0/0/0 is a blacked-out ruin devoid of movement, 0/0/10 is all pretty but uninhabited (which is what most of the map is, let's be real), 10/10/0 is where there's active fighting. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I actually quite like [[User:Zombie_Lord/sandbox1 the icons here]] as something to work with, maybe expand the color scheme to include blue (completely safe, fully intact, mostly inhabited by survivors) and gray (dangerous, wrecked, nothing but zombies) --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
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==Other Maps==<br />
Needs to me morphed into a template. It shouldn't have been added in that manner in the first place and compromises the readability of the page. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 08:00, 2 April 2009 (BST)<br />
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== Small suburb map ==<br />
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Do we have any code on this wiki that displays a smaller map than the Suburb Dangermap? I'm thinking something small in the same vein as [[:File:1001 Days in Urban Dead.gif]]. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 10:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:{{tl|TenTenMap}}? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 12:26, 2 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you so much A. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 11:40, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Is there any 'old-hat-who-can't-wiki-good-anymore' way to call the [[suburb]] results to turn this into a tiny Dangermap? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 11:45, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::Sure. Three steps:<br />
::::#Make a template. Let’s say it’s DDRDanger. Its entire contents should be <code><nowiki>{{{Danger}}}</nowiki></code><br />
::::#For each suburb in the TenTenMap, do something like <code><nowiki>00={{User:DangerReport/Dakerstown|template=DDRDanger}}</nowiki></code>. This will resolve to something like <code><nowiki>00=safe</nowiki></code>, so you may be able to see where this is going now...<br />
::::#In your TenTenMap code, create a style for each of the allowed danger levels like so: <code><nowiki>safe={{DangerMapnormalsafe}}</nowiki></code>, which will resolve to creating a “safe” style that uses the actual DangerMap’s own safe styling.<br />
::::Give that a first crack and see how it goes. If you’re having trouble, let me know and I’ll set it up for you myself. I just didn’t have time to do so at the moment or else I already would have. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 13:58, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::::I had some time to spare, so I vandalized the project page in your user space. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:25, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::::::Wow. That's incredible, thank you so much Aichon. Getting back into wiki coding has been surprisingly difficult for me... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 23:02, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
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== Map ==<br />
something is wrong with the map. --[[User:Storm|Storm]] 04:48, 5 February 2014 (UTC)<br />
:Fixed. Someone edited the wrong line when updating a suburb danger report. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)</sub><br />
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==Map Errors==<br />
Anyone else noticed how inaccurate the maps are becoming since they started basing them on EMR reports instead of eyewitnesses? EMR is a poor indicator of danger level. I think the overall accuracy level has gone down, although at least they all get updated regularly ... even if it is with bad info. -- [[User:Grogh|Grogh]] 02:49, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:The EMR system is the best we've got for suburbs like [[Miltown]] and [[Greentown]] were there are very few eyewitnesses around that update the wiki. Sure, it's not perfect, but unlike eyewitnesses, it's completely neutral.<br />
:By the way, if you've got information, stop complaining and go ahead and update it <tt>:P</tt> {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 08:19, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:No one said you can't edit a map based on eyewitness reports, unless it was while I was away. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 10:06, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
::I agree a scout (particularly of the detail NecroWatch provides) will always outdo an EMR, there's just not the detail in the EMR, but they make a good general indicator for keeping the maps recent. Recent, if patchy, data is always preferable to outdated information. The only way 'accuracy' of the levels could degrade was if people were using the EMRs as a definitive yardstick despite recent news suggesting otherwise. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:43, 22 May 2009 (BST)<br />
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=General Discussion=<br />
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==Special formatting on group listings==<br />
During the Great Suburb Group Massacre, I've noticed some groups using the code for big text (<nowiki><big></big></nowiki>) and bolding (<nowiki><b></b> or ''' '''</nowiki>.) I know that code has been historically used for alliances, but does anyone object to me removing that code when it's individual groups that are using it? {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 07:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There's no reason for ''any'' groups to be using additional markup to give themselves undue prominence. The bold/big combo was just used to show the name of organisations with their member groups underneath. It's there to to help people navigate, nothing more. The recommended guidelines are [[Template:SuburbGroups|well documented]] on the template page. All group listings should conform accordingly. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:55, 3 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Report cycling ==<br />
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Why a month? I don't think we would miss much if we changed it to 2 weeks. Not only is this underused as a source of information when compared to individual suburb pages, but most news would be out of date within a week or so anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 13:40, 16 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:Would anyone like to discuss this? If not, 2 weeks from now, I'll change it to 2 weeks. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 08:15, 18 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:Silence implies consent, in most cases. I don't have a problem with it. {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 08:23, 18 May 2009 (BST)<br />
::Silence implies no one was alerted, it's being readded and going to see use. If you see something not getting activity step one is to actually encourage activitiy and this page and it's news played a major role in the game's community when it actually saw use. It's the easy access high visibility way to get the pulse of the game. You're both fail for not having really discussed this at all >_>.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:21, 21 July 2009 (BST)<br />
:::Get off ma wikiz! --{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 09:27, 21 July 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
==is there a reason why...==<br />
the south doesn't seem to get as much action as the northern suburbs? Im just curious, cause all the major battles all happened in the upper half of the map. --[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 01:14, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
:Geographic tenancies. Predicting zombie movement and survivor resistance is an art. ''Most'' people, including myself, agree that the South is more survivor friendly. But the reason is anyone's guess. Let's look at the [[Mall Status Map|layout of malls]], shall we? You may notice that they group together. Treweeke stands alone, it would be difficult to repair, due to it's distance from other malls, and thus leaves the extreme NE vulnerable. The majority of the Malls form a diagonal vein from the NW to SE corners. This includes the so-called [[Survivor Security Zone]], and the 5 mall loop that includes Caiger. While this would logically mean safety, Malls attract the extremes of the local situation; They're the first building ruined and the first repaired. So the massive dead-zone around Greater Ridleybank spreads though these, with feral ripples hitting even the farthest of the collection. The easiest to defend mall clusters are Marven-Tompson and Pole-Buckley. They're well out of the way of the zombie homeland, invulnerable from feral ripples from a few malls over, and two must be toppled before the complex can fall. Thus the SW and mid-south are easiest to maintain a steady supply to, making them safest for living. However, there are many things which I have not considered; The reputation of an area (it's funner to ruin Caiger than Buckley), local groups (pro-life groups in the South seem to last longer and hold better relations), and local survivor intelligence (or lack thereof) also have an effect. No one can ever fully understand the beautiful display of the danger maps over time, but I encourage you to try. <small><small><small><small>Unless you're pro-life, in which case I'd prefer you die.</small></small></small></small> --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 04:38, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
::I love being able to legitimately plug my own video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLY1Xxktcg]! -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 05:30, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
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==Group in notorious suburb info==<br />
why is the kilt store mentioned on this page? what the hell have they done to warrant any special attention?----[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">sexualharrison</span>]][[Image:Starofdavid2.png | 18px]] ¯\([[Image:Boobs.gif|18px]])/¯ 22:38, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
:+1 --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 23:05, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
::Good call. Removed. If they get into Cat:HG later then they might consider adding themselves back at that time. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:11, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
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<br />
== Largely Quantifiable Numbers ==<br />
<br />
Since the current danger system utilizes some pretty straightforward numbers in the analysis, 50+ zombie hordes, 150+ zombie hordes, etc., I have found that current circumstances on the ground may warrant updating these numbers. Unlike the heyday of UD, overall participation is way down. Active accounts are down, too. Currently, the game has 8452 survivors standing, 4554 zombies standing, and 3716 dead/revivifying. This means that, per suburb assuming even distribution, there's around 84.5 survivors and 45.5 zombies. I haven't seen a fully-loaded multi-hundred-human defended mall in months, and there's absolutely no indication that the distribution of those survivors is even, meaning few suburbs have enough people to put even a single person inside each building.<br />
<br />
All this said, the game is smaller now. Small groups of zombies can crack suburbs this lightly defended with ease. Survivors are spread thin trying to defend everything. Perhaps we should be looking at lower numbers constituting the danger levels? 25 zombie hordes and 75 zombie mega-hordes, perhaps? Either way, the numbers aren't really as useful as they once were, rarely coming into play in the updates. And, if they DO come into play, it's usually AFTER the suburb has already been wiped clean of humans. What updates might make this more useful? --[[User:BLusk|BLusk]] 14:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Zombie Lord is working on something that moves the system away from population based reporting altogether. It's more of an infrastructure based reporting system that is along the lines of the EMRs we get. Population numbers are included but the danger of a burb is not based on it. I think he's still working out the details and so he hasn't posted anything here but you can see what he's working on at [[User:Zombie Lord/sandbox1]]. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 14:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, thank you for the link. Anyone who wants to take all that to a more public page so it can be worked on by anyone who feels the urge, should feel free.-{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>19:02 23 February 2011(UTC)</tt><br />
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== What happens next? ==<br />
i've noticed that slowly the entire city is falling. Everywhere i go the buildings are ruined and there are only zombies. what happens when the entire city is zombified or dead?[[User:Jrs3000|Jrs3000]] 18:07, 14 May 2011 (BST)<br />
:it won't come to that, u may notice that search rates for faks and syringes, even in ruins, are supergood right now... {{User:Lady Clitoria/Sig}} <sub>18:12, 14 May 2011</sub><br />
holy shit almost the whole maps red no more greens and only 28% are humans i think malton is finelly falling to zombie hands lol go zeds! i wonder what would happen if all the humans died would kevin finelly end this xD and the best thing would be for the big bash to come around now...<br />
:28% is actually much better than it was a short time ago. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 04:18, 28 May 2011 (BST)<br />
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== A side note ==<br />
<br />
As you can see, pretty much nowhere is safe. Whenever you try to cade a building, you get killed somehow, so really, what is the point of playing as a survivor? you'll just keep getting killed every few days. So really the game is really favouring zombies. Survivors are being penalised. Seriously, I keep hearing stories that as soon as a building is caded, a rather large group of zombies coming from nowhere appears and kills everyone, how can you compete with that? But what if someone doesn't want to play as a zombie, they go to a revive point. Wait, idiots attack the zombies there too. So basically, survivors are screwed. Without survivors then this is not really much of a game. {{unsigned|LoneGuardian09|12:48, 30 May 2011 (BST)}}<br />
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well the game has to come to an end somtime i think that the zombies will end up ruling and the survivors or dying or just never log in again<br />
--[[User:Jose|Jose]] 16:50, 30 May 2011 (BST)<br />
:Simple, humans do what they are known for, surviving. it will simply be as nomads hiding in darkened buildings. which is a well used tactic in dangerous suburbs, hiding in ruined, dark buildings is really easy to do--[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 06:36, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
::Jeez, it's like some kind of zombie apocalypse or something! I never signed up for that!! --[[User:Cman yall|Cman yall]] 21:02, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:::Technically this is how the map should look. You have ot remember, human players for some reason seem to have a crippling hatred of eachother. --[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 23:39, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== REDFEST ==<br />
<br />
For real though, everything is red or orange now. Please take the descriptions of the colors in consideration. I understand people feel the need to make their suburb/temporary safe haven not stand out, but if you want to beat this whole massive zombie attack thing, you have to fight psychologically. Just like they're doing. ("Hey everythings red! This is keeping up our zombie spirits. Let's keep going for a long time." vs "Damn survivors took back the whole west coast! Sheeeiiiit. Let's eventually get bored and so forth.") Also, most of the random suburbs I walked through are pretty safe. Some zombies are standing outside but in no way in mobs of 50 or more or even 150 or more.<br />
<br />
In addition: the wiki should be not biased for survivors nor undead, so providing truthful information would be a right thing to do. Also, keeping the danger map updated in this fashion, it's easier to locate the horde.<br />
<br />
So please read and adhere the descriptions of the danger levels and don't think you should just put a higher level, just because that's the status of surrounding hoods. --[[User:Bean|Bean]] 15:48, 6 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:The map went completely red because everyone was dead, not because the zombies were high-fiving each other on the wiki. --[[User:Karloth_vois|Karloth Vois]] <sup>[[¯\(°_o)/¯]]</sup> 16:53, 6 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:And three months ago there was a whole bunch of yellow and green. Which is what it's been consistently for like 2-3 years. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:29, 7 June 2011 (BST)<br />
::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/images/5/54/1001_Days_in_Urban_Dead.gif Here's some learning]. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:31, 7 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
:I've just had a rather long rant about this in frequently asked questions, if everybody is dead, and even if you get revived you are dead the next time you login, people will ask what is the point of playing, or just keep playing as a zombie instead. It's a hell of a lot easier being a zombie. So really, not long before humans are a dieing breed --[[User:LoneGuardian09|LoneGuardian09]] 20:10 8th June 2011 (GMT)<br />
::Yeah, better to just give up now. Game over, man, game over! --<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Laughing Man]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> [[Image:Crywig.gif]] 20:26, 8 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Update At Survivors Risk? ==<br />
<br />
is the status of a "safe" building better left unknown/out-of-date for survivors?<br />
<br />
i understand i am updating at my own risk...but recon information is important for survivors (and, yes i know, zombies). i'm trying to have a npov but after witnessing a GKer destroy the genny of a building i updated just a few hours prior pissed me off (as a character). i stayed in the building to witness the effect of updating wiki information. and since my UD & Wiki names are the same, i'm also worried about being PK'd by a pro-survivor (someone who doesn't PK) for giving out their safe-house info...so now i prefer to update TRP only...but it's hard for the survivor community who aren't in groups to know if a suburb is "safe" with only 0-30% of the danger levels. -- [[User:Son of Sin|Son of Sin]] -- 21 August 2011, 09:44 (GMT)<br />
:Honestly from the zombie perspective the danger map is solely self promotion, most of the determination about where to go on a suburb level has to do with maintaining momentum. Survivors are who the map was largely designed for and functions effectively for as an information tool. Survivors benefit from knowing where survivors are, zombies have to know more about activity times. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 12:26, 21 August 2011 (BST)<br />
::Thanks Karek. [[User:Son of Sin|Son of Sin]] -- 21 August 2011, 12:06 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== [[UDWiki:Open Discussion/DangerMap Version 4|Open Discussion]] ==<br />
<br />
I've started an open discussion to try to consolidate all of the currently proposed DangerMap ideas. The discussion here got rather off topic and disorganized and I wanted to help steer it back on track. Feel free to discuss things in a more organized fashion [[UDWiki talk:Open Discussion/DangerMap Version 4|here]]. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)</sub><br />
<br />
== A question about Vinetown ==<br />
<br />
What exactly is noteworthy about Vinetown? It doesn't have any description or explanation and I was wondering if it was just an oversight, or if it needed to be demoted to just another tar heel suburb.--[[User:BrotherMcBeaner|BrotherMcBeaner]] 20:36, 12 May 2012 (BST)<br />
:Near as I can tell, it was [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Vinetown&diff=next&oldid=1958500 modified without comment or justification] less than a year ago. I've gone ahead and set it back to normal. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:27, 12 May 2012 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Peddlesden Village and Dunell Hills ==<br />
<br />
I'd rather not touch anything and leave it up to the officials... but Peddles and Dunell aren't exactly ghost towns, or... they ''will'' be. There are zombies everywhere, ruining all the buildings, and I have no idea why. I saw at least 7 or 8 zombies on my straight path to Houghton Towers. I think it should be changed to a dangerous area, and not a ghost. Preeetty sure I'll wake up a zombie. --- [[Image:Umbrella_Corp.gif|14px]] '''[[User:Alex Yamata|Alex Yamata]]''' 12:18, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:There are no "officials". You're welcome to change them if you don't think the criteria fit for the current state on the ground. And there might be a strong zombie presence there because [[The Dead 2.0|The Dead]] claim the entire [[DMZ]] as their home turf, which includes those suburbs. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:09, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
::From what I can tell, it seems to be random. I see DHCP survivors everywhere, but the few zombie profiles I do get to see are feral. And by officials, I meant people like you, Aichon... These Danger Levels mess with a lot of things around the wiki, and I don't like editing big things. --- [[Image:Umbrella_Corp.gif|14px]] '''[[User:Alex Yamata|Alex Yamata]]''' 00:51, 7 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:::Meh, the danger levels are ''intended'' to be edited by anyone. Just [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Dunell_Hills&action=edit edit it] to say something like "dangerous" or "very dangerous". There are instructions there, and if you screw something up, it'll be obvious (since the changes won't happen and stuff will probably look screwy), so you can just click the history link at the top of the page and undo your changes. Really, you never need to worry about the edits you make on the wiki, since you can undo anything you screw up. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:30, 7 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:On the wiki we encourage you to edit things like this yourself. Trust us, if you ''did'' mess something up (as I did when I did it for the first couple of times), no one will notice. If they do, they'll revert it so it's no longer an issue. Trust us, the more people who update this regularly, the better it will be. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 08:16, 8 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DSS map offline ==<br />
<br />
It seems the DSS map link is no longer active. The one located on all the individual suburb pages. Can that be removed? I would most likely break something so probably better for someone smarter to do it. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 20:59, 7 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Good find, thanks Kirsty. For me it redirected me to unwanted ads and malware download attempts etc so I've removed the hyperlink function. It's just plain text now. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 03:03, 8 October 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:Suburb&diff=2428615Talk:Suburb2024-03-15T19:28:40Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Proposal for Active and Dead */</p>
<hr />
<div>{| style="margin-left:12px; border:solid 1px #CCD; background-color:#EEF" align=right<br />
| __TOC__<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/archive|Suburb Archive]]'''<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/Archive|Suburb Archive 2]]'''<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/Archive 3|Suburb Archive 3]]'''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=Reporting Guidelines=<br />
<br />
<br />
==How to Update a Suburb Danger Report==<br />
<br />
First find the report you wish to update, you can search for it by typing "User:DangerReport/''Suburb''" in the search box. You can also find it listed in this category, just scroll to the bottom of the page. The is also a link listed on each suburb's page in the template on the right. It can be found just below the 9-suburb map.<br />
<br />
You then need to change the <tt>|Danger=</tt> variable to one of the possible statuses. You can briefly explain the reason for the change in the edit summary. Longer explanations are best left on the page of the suburb in question under the news section, or on the [[suburb]] page under the reports section.<br />
<br />
===Example===<br />
:[[Example page|Example User]] wants to change the danger level of [[Hollomstown]] from '''moderately dangerous''' to '''safe''', since they have scouted that suburb and found almost no zombies outside, and no PKing activity was reported for some time.<br />
:[[Example page|Example User]] then goes to the [[Hollomstown]] page and follows this link: [[User:DangerReport/Hollomstown|Update Hollomstown's Danger Level]] which leads to the danger report page for Hollomstown.<br />
:Now they changes the danger variable from <tt>'''|Danger=moderately dangerous'''</tt> to <tt>'''|Danger=safe'''</tt><br />
:They can then note the change on the [[Hollomstown#Recent News|Hollomstown]] page in the news section.<br />
:{{Code|May 10th - No zombie or pking activity in this suburb. This suburb is now safe. --[[Example page|Example User]] 16:25, 13 August 2006 (BST)}} <br />
<br />
If a suburb is deemed noteworthy, change <tt>|Notority=normal</tt> to <tt>|Notority=notable</tt> and this will bold the suburb's name on map output.<br />
<br />
<br />
=Reporting discussion=<br />
==A disputed report==<br />
<small>Moved from the main page</small><br />
<br />
'''[[Lukinswood]]''' almost half the buildings are under zed control it should be dangerous --[[User:Zombieman 11|Zombieman 11]] 19:25, 22 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:This report was completely fabricated. The suburb was no more ruined the day of the report than Zombieman 11 is a saint. This section is bullocks. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 04:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
i know it wasnt ruined but from a short scout alot of trp were zed homes not ruined yet--[[User:Zombieman 11|Zombieman 11]] 21:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Lukinswood doesn't have "alot" of TRPs. The few that it has were not recently broken into, either. Unless you are referring to [[The Coram Building]] (not technically a TRP) which has been subject to repeated zerg rushes for the last eight or nine months. Stop misleading people. In fact, stop using the Suburb page to post reports. It's retarded to keep posting reports there. Use the news section of the respective suburb pages or just update the damn danger level. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 01:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
I'm moving this here since the report is clearly disputed and apparently with good reason. There's no sense in confusing people. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:52, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
=Noteworthy Suburbs=<br />
==Simple Guidelines for Noteworthiness==<br />
<br />
For a suburb to be able to be called ''Noteworthy'', important events on the history of Malton must have happened on it. The place where hordes were born, important sieges, or events that gained attention from the entire community.<br />
<br />
*'''An important and unique event must have happened in the suburb'''<br />
:Events like [[Stanstock]], the [[First Siege of Caiger Mall|first]] and [[Second Siege of Caiger Mall|second]] sieges of [[Caiger Mall]] are nice examples of unique events that marked history. The first united the entire urban dead community, and the second and third were HUGE sieges where survivor-kind won against the hordes. Events like the [[Mall Tour]] and the [[Big Bash]], on the other hand, doesn't make a suburb noteworthy, as several burbs took part of this event.<br />
<br />
*'''An important and/or historical group was formed in that suburb'''<br />
:When a group manages to draw the attention of the entire community or influence the gameplay centers his actions around a burb of birth, that suburb can be called noteworthy. Examples of this are [[Ridleybank]] and [[Yagoton]]. The first is the infamous homeland of zombie-kind, homeland of the [[Ridleybank Resistance Front]], while the second is the home of the [[Yagoton Revivification Clinic]], the first and most famous group dedicated to revivification.<br />
<br />
*'''A unique and noteworthy building exists in this suburb'''<br />
:This usually doesn't make a suburb noteworthy at all, unless important events on the history of Malton happened there. Resiting two huge sieges inside [[Caiger Mall]] make that unique building noteworthy, while having the only Zoo in the city isn't noteworthy as nothing important of note happened there.<br />
<br />
Note that merely fitting in any of these categories doesn't automatically make a suburb noteworthy. It still needs the approval of the community. Nominate and discuss a suburb in the below header.<br />
<br />
==Nominations==<br />
Add your nominations here for noteworthy suburbs.<br />
<br />
[[Talk:Suburb/Nomination Archive|Suburb/Nomination Archive]]<br />
<br />
<br />
=Danger colors discussion=<br />
All discussions pertaining to the suburb color system and proposals for new maps<br />
<br />
{{MA|Talk:Suburb/Color System Discussion|Suburb/Color System Discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Talk:Suburb/Color System Archive|Suburb/Color System Archive]]<br />
<br />
==Proposal for Active and Dead==<br />
I am proposing two new color status, Active and Dead. These are to indicate areas that are mostly safe or mostly a ghost town, yet have persistent human and zombie activity that is not represented by any of the other colors/descriptions, and is important for players to be aware of. <br />
<br />
These cover suburbs that have an active tug of war and are either predominantly in survivor hands, or predominantly in zombie hands. Typically a targeted persistent insurgency is happening, which makes death a daily occurrence, but in the case of zombie controlled, its neither a ghost town nor very dangerous, and in the case of survivor controlled, its neither safe, intact, nor dangerous. One could argue for Moderately Dangerous/Dangerous/Very Dangerous, but I will argue below that these are not accurate representations, since the majority of the suburb is safe, and the attack on the suburb is insurgent in nature (Sporadic / Targeted). <br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Argument for Dead</b> - Mostly ruined, with occupying zombies and persistent human insurgency.<br />
*Not Safe - Location is not intact, human and zombie activity.<br />
*Not Moderately Dangerous - There is a major horde (15+ zombies in the burb?) but spread out / lethargic, not active, not breaking in.<br />
*Not Intact - It is 95% ruined, with zombies.<br />
*Not Dangerous - Many of the resource buildings are unoccupied (timed out?), hostile zombies but not an active mob/horde.<br />
*Not A Ghost Town - There is a significant zombie occupation (15+?) and significant human insurgency (2+ suicide repairs a day?).<br />
*Not Very Dangerous - Most buildings are open and not zombie infested, there is not a massive zombie mob. Survivors could spend days wandering around without incident.<br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Argument for Active</b> - Mostly intact, with occupying survivors and persistent zombie insurgency.<br />
*Not Safe - It is 95% intact, inhabited by survivors, lit buildings, but certain people/buildings are likely to regularly die.<br />
*Not Moderately Dangerous - There is a major horde (15+ zombies in the burb?) but attacks are targeted / periodic. Survivors could spend days wandering around without incident.<br />
*Not Intact - There is a survivor population (15+ survivors in the burb?)<br />
*Not Dangerous - Most resource buildings are secure, attacks are a targeted insurgency, most of the burb is safe.<br />
*Not A Ghost Town - It is 95% intact and there is a significant survivor occupation and a persistent zombie insurgency.<br />
*Not Very Dangerous - Most buildings are intact and not zombie occupied, there is a persistent zombie insurgency not a massive zombie mob.<br />
<br />
<br />
<b>For Reference:</b><br />
*Safe - Structurally intact and inhabited by survivors, with numerous lit buildings, and few to no zombies.<br />
*Moderately Dangerous - Active zombies and break-ins, but no major hordes.<br />
*Intact - Structurally intact with few zombies, but a very low survivor population and few to no lit buildings.<br />
*Dangerous - Zombies inside many resource buildings and/or significant hostile mobs.<br />
*A Ghost Town - Mostly or entirely ruined, and devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations.<br />
*Very Dangerous - Most buildings wide open or zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs.<br />
{{unsigned|MrMap|18:28, 26 November 2023}}<br />
:The danger levels have been an on-off hot topic over the decades. I'm not sure that adding more danger levels in addition to what is already present would be useful, like splitting hairs. But there could be an argument for simplifying to an "Active" (there's action happening here) vs. "Inactive" (nothing much going on), although you'd lose the ruined/intact info. There's some historic interest in making the danger levels not survivor-centric (i.e., not dangerous or safe from the perspective of a survivor). So that's often a discussion that's been had when any changes to the danger levels have been made or discussed. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)<br />
::The previous danger level discussions have all been abandoned or implemented already and the vast majority here should be archived to another page as its mostly clutter at this point. The changes that made it through where incremetal changes, like adding intact, and so this is following in the footsteps of what has worked. The idea is differentiating active burbs that are either in zombie control or survivor control. They both could be argued as very dangerous, or moderately dangerous, but the burbs are in completely different situations, and we have no way to indicate that. Instead ghost towns have been used for zombie occupied dangerous, and survivor occupied range from safe to very dangereous with no decernable way to choose one. If the wiki is not able to provide understandable accurate information, what is the point?{{unsigned|MrMap|00:19, 2 December 2023}}<br />
:::I like the idea on the new colors, not sold on the descriptions. Dead is Safe for Zombies (Easy to stand back up and reclaim buildings), Very Dangerous for Survivors (Assuming they repair a building). Active is Safe for Survivors (Easy to get a revive and reclaim buildings), Very Dangerous for Zombies (Assuming they break into a building). -- [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
::::Theres 0 reason to add new danger levels to the map other than you just wanting a special tag for you and your group to throw around. Dunnel Hills is indeed a ghost town until you decide to log in your inactive alts because someone did something major. -[[User:Matahashi|Matahashi]]<br />
:::::How about you contribute something constructive? I spent a long time writing up a comprehensive proposal explaining why these new colors are needed. The current colors do not properly communicate the situation on the ground. A ghost town is empty, but there are several suburbs that are ruined but not empty. Safe typically has minimal to no break ins, but there are several suburbs that are clearly in survivor control but have an active tug of war. Your conspiracy theories and animosity are not valid arguments nor productive discussion. {{unsigned|MrMap|18:09, 14 December 2023}}<br />
::::::Hello. There is no consensus to change the Suburb danger scheme, so don't input your own version of the danger statuses. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:53, 15 December 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Do you have a specific counter proposal other then going to a binary active/inactive, which you seem to also be against due to the loss of info? Incremental changes seem to be the only thing that works here, we have ruined/caded while devoid of players, but we don't have ruined/caded with active combat. As you say, its all survivor point of view with no indication of cade status. What do we need to arrive at consensus? When bob made the proposal for intact on April 11th, he waited until the 14th when he bumped discussion and one person responded. Then on the 18th he made the changes. Currently we have an "I'm not sure" a "Yes" and a "No" vote from someone whose sole contribution to the wiki is to revert other people's updates. I'd argue that vote is not in good faith, that they are not actually evaluating the merits of the proposal, and are jumping to conclusions based on bias, but whatever. We have a vote from The Dead (ZPatriot) and we have a vote from Soldiers of Crossman (Matahashi), so I think we should consider them team representatives, instead of getting into some pissing contest to see who can recruit the most members of their team to dog pile the vote. As the only other person engaging in the discussion, it seems like you have the tie breaking vote. Or maybe we need to get bob in here to give it an eval/pov? {{unsigned|MrMap|21:42, 15 December 2023}}<br />
::::::::There was apparently discussion on Discord on the "Intact" level in addition to what was written on the wiki. A good way to test whether there is consensus after discussion is to implement the changes and see what happens. In Bob's case, the changes did not provoke dissent and many members of the wiki have used the Intact level in the following years. In your case, changes have been reverted within the day, so it does not appear that the changes have consensus. It could be that people are not interested in changing the system at all, or they just don't agree with these specific proposed changes. Personally, my preferred system is something that captures three things in an unbiased way: (1) survivor numbers, (2) zombie numbers, and (3) infrastructure (i.e., 'cades, ruins, lighting). But the main issue to overcome in implementing this is finding a way to retain the at-a-glance simplicity with the current design. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::The revert was made out of ignorance and then spite. If your requirement is unanimity, certainly we should not include the voice whose only contribution to the wiki is to harass other people. While I am happy to explore and try to solidify a proposal that meets your desires, it is clear that a full revamp will be much harder to reach consensus on, so I'd like to focus on what can be tweaked in this proposal to make it more agreeable. Dead and Active do in fact communicate some of the info you are looking for, particularly low cades with sizable zombie population and high cades with sizeable zombie population, neither of which we can currently communicate. Best current options are very dangerous for no cades zombie controlled and dangerous for mostly caded survivor controlled.{{unsigned|MrMap|00:07, 17 December 2023}}<br />
::::::::::While I agree Matahashi is a troll and the wiki decision making is as broken as democratic politics can be, I don't agree with marking everything as very dangerous. There would need to be a significant survivor population. Maybe make a new color for moderately dangerous but in zombie control? [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
:::::::::I'd just give it a number system, with pretty little icons and color coding. Scale of 0-10 for each statistic - 0/0/0 is a blacked-out ruin devoid of movement, 0/0/10 is all pretty but uninhabited (which is what most of the map is, let's be real), 10/10/0 is where there's active fighting. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Other Maps==<br />
Needs to me morphed into a template. It shouldn't have been added in that manner in the first place and compromises the readability of the page. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 08:00, 2 April 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Small suburb map ==<br />
<br />
Do we have any code on this wiki that displays a smaller map than the Suburb Dangermap? I'm thinking something small in the same vein as [[:File:1001 Days in Urban Dead.gif]]. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 10:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:{{tl|TenTenMap}}? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 12:26, 2 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you so much A. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 11:40, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Is there any 'old-hat-who-can't-wiki-good-anymore' way to call the [[suburb]] results to turn this into a tiny Dangermap? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 11:45, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::Sure. Three steps:<br />
::::#Make a template. Let’s say it’s DDRDanger. Its entire contents should be <code><nowiki>{{{Danger}}}</nowiki></code><br />
::::#For each suburb in the TenTenMap, do something like <code><nowiki>00={{User:DangerReport/Dakerstown|template=DDRDanger}}</nowiki></code>. This will resolve to something like <code><nowiki>00=safe</nowiki></code>, so you may be able to see where this is going now...<br />
::::#In your TenTenMap code, create a style for each of the allowed danger levels like so: <code><nowiki>safe={{DangerMapnormalsafe}}</nowiki></code>, which will resolve to creating a “safe” style that uses the actual DangerMap’s own safe styling.<br />
::::Give that a first crack and see how it goes. If you’re having trouble, let me know and I’ll set it up for you myself. I just didn’t have time to do so at the moment or else I already would have. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 13:58, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::::I had some time to spare, so I vandalized the project page in your user space. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:25, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::::::Wow. That's incredible, thank you so much Aichon. Getting back into wiki coding has been surprisingly difficult for me... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 23:02, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Map ==<br />
something is wrong with the map. --[[User:Storm|Storm]] 04:48, 5 February 2014 (UTC)<br />
:Fixed. Someone edited the wrong line when updating a suburb danger report. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)</sub><br />
<br />
==Map Errors==<br />
Anyone else noticed how inaccurate the maps are becoming since they started basing them on EMR reports instead of eyewitnesses? EMR is a poor indicator of danger level. I think the overall accuracy level has gone down, although at least they all get updated regularly ... even if it is with bad info. -- [[User:Grogh|Grogh]] 02:49, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:The EMR system is the best we've got for suburbs like [[Miltown]] and [[Greentown]] were there are very few eyewitnesses around that update the wiki. Sure, it's not perfect, but unlike eyewitnesses, it's completely neutral.<br />
:By the way, if you've got information, stop complaining and go ahead and update it <tt>:P</tt> {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 08:19, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:No one said you can't edit a map based on eyewitness reports, unless it was while I was away. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 10:06, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
::I agree a scout (particularly of the detail NecroWatch provides) will always outdo an EMR, there's just not the detail in the EMR, but they make a good general indicator for keeping the maps recent. Recent, if patchy, data is always preferable to outdated information. The only way 'accuracy' of the levels could degrade was if people were using the EMRs as a definitive yardstick despite recent news suggesting otherwise. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:43, 22 May 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
<br />
=General Discussion=<br />
<br />
==Special formatting on group listings==<br />
During the Great Suburb Group Massacre, I've noticed some groups using the code for big text (<nowiki><big></big></nowiki>) and bolding (<nowiki><b></b> or ''' '''</nowiki>.) I know that code has been historically used for alliances, but does anyone object to me removing that code when it's individual groups that are using it? {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 07:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There's no reason for ''any'' groups to be using additional markup to give themselves undue prominence. The bold/big combo was just used to show the name of organisations with their member groups underneath. It's there to to help people navigate, nothing more. The recommended guidelines are [[Template:SuburbGroups|well documented]] on the template page. All group listings should conform accordingly. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:55, 3 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Report cycling ==<br />
<br />
Why a month? I don't think we would miss much if we changed it to 2 weeks. Not only is this underused as a source of information when compared to individual suburb pages, but most news would be out of date within a week or so anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 13:40, 16 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:Would anyone like to discuss this? If not, 2 weeks from now, I'll change it to 2 weeks. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 08:15, 18 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:Silence implies consent, in most cases. I don't have a problem with it. {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 08:23, 18 May 2009 (BST)<br />
::Silence implies no one was alerted, it's being readded and going to see use. If you see something not getting activity step one is to actually encourage activitiy and this page and it's news played a major role in the game's community when it actually saw use. It's the easy access high visibility way to get the pulse of the game. You're both fail for not having really discussed this at all >_>.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:21, 21 July 2009 (BST)<br />
:::Get off ma wikiz! --{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 09:27, 21 July 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
==is there a reason why...==<br />
the south doesn't seem to get as much action as the northern suburbs? Im just curious, cause all the major battles all happened in the upper half of the map. --[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 01:14, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
:Geographic tenancies. Predicting zombie movement and survivor resistance is an art. ''Most'' people, including myself, agree that the South is more survivor friendly. But the reason is anyone's guess. Let's look at the [[Mall Status Map|layout of malls]], shall we? You may notice that they group together. Treweeke stands alone, it would be difficult to repair, due to it's distance from other malls, and thus leaves the extreme NE vulnerable. The majority of the Malls form a diagonal vein from the NW to SE corners. This includes the so-called [[Survivor Security Zone]], and the 5 mall loop that includes Caiger. While this would logically mean safety, Malls attract the extremes of the local situation; They're the first building ruined and the first repaired. So the massive dead-zone around Greater Ridleybank spreads though these, with feral ripples hitting even the farthest of the collection. The easiest to defend mall clusters are Marven-Tompson and Pole-Buckley. They're well out of the way of the zombie homeland, invulnerable from feral ripples from a few malls over, and two must be toppled before the complex can fall. Thus the SW and mid-south are easiest to maintain a steady supply to, making them safest for living. However, there are many things which I have not considered; The reputation of an area (it's funner to ruin Caiger than Buckley), local groups (pro-life groups in the South seem to last longer and hold better relations), and local survivor intelligence (or lack thereof) also have an effect. No one can ever fully understand the beautiful display of the danger maps over time, but I encourage you to try. <small><small><small><small>Unless you're pro-life, in which case I'd prefer you die.</small></small></small></small> --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 04:38, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
::I love being able to legitimately plug my own video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLY1Xxktcg]! -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 05:30, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
<br />
==Group in notorious suburb info==<br />
why is the kilt store mentioned on this page? what the hell have they done to warrant any special attention?----[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">sexualharrison</span>]][[Image:Starofdavid2.png | 18px]] ¯\([[Image:Boobs.gif|18px]])/¯ 22:38, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
:+1 --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 23:05, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
::Good call. Removed. If they get into Cat:HG later then they might consider adding themselves back at that time. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:11, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Largely Quantifiable Numbers ==<br />
<br />
Since the current danger system utilizes some pretty straightforward numbers in the analysis, 50+ zombie hordes, 150+ zombie hordes, etc., I have found that current circumstances on the ground may warrant updating these numbers. Unlike the heyday of UD, overall participation is way down. Active accounts are down, too. Currently, the game has 8452 survivors standing, 4554 zombies standing, and 3716 dead/revivifying. This means that, per suburb assuming even distribution, there's around 84.5 survivors and 45.5 zombies. I haven't seen a fully-loaded multi-hundred-human defended mall in months, and there's absolutely no indication that the distribution of those survivors is even, meaning few suburbs have enough people to put even a single person inside each building.<br />
<br />
All this said, the game is smaller now. Small groups of zombies can crack suburbs this lightly defended with ease. Survivors are spread thin trying to defend everything. Perhaps we should be looking at lower numbers constituting the danger levels? 25 zombie hordes and 75 zombie mega-hordes, perhaps? Either way, the numbers aren't really as useful as they once were, rarely coming into play in the updates. And, if they DO come into play, it's usually AFTER the suburb has already been wiped clean of humans. What updates might make this more useful? --[[User:BLusk|BLusk]] 14:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Zombie Lord is working on something that moves the system away from population based reporting altogether. It's more of an infrastructure based reporting system that is along the lines of the EMRs we get. Population numbers are included but the danger of a burb is not based on it. I think he's still working out the details and so he hasn't posted anything here but you can see what he's working on at [[User:Zombie Lord/sandbox1]]. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 14:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, thank you for the link. Anyone who wants to take all that to a more public page so it can be worked on by anyone who feels the urge, should feel free.-{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>19:02 23 February 2011(UTC)</tt><br />
<br />
== What happens next? ==<br />
i've noticed that slowly the entire city is falling. Everywhere i go the buildings are ruined and there are only zombies. what happens when the entire city is zombified or dead?[[User:Jrs3000|Jrs3000]] 18:07, 14 May 2011 (BST)<br />
:it won't come to that, u may notice that search rates for faks and syringes, even in ruins, are supergood right now... {{User:Lady Clitoria/Sig}} <sub>18:12, 14 May 2011</sub><br />
holy shit almost the whole maps red no more greens and only 28% are humans i think malton is finelly falling to zombie hands lol go zeds! i wonder what would happen if all the humans died would kevin finelly end this xD and the best thing would be for the big bash to come around now...<br />
:28% is actually much better than it was a short time ago. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 04:18, 28 May 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== A side note ==<br />
<br />
As you can see, pretty much nowhere is safe. Whenever you try to cade a building, you get killed somehow, so really, what is the point of playing as a survivor? you'll just keep getting killed every few days. So really the game is really favouring zombies. Survivors are being penalised. Seriously, I keep hearing stories that as soon as a building is caded, a rather large group of zombies coming from nowhere appears and kills everyone, how can you compete with that? But what if someone doesn't want to play as a zombie, they go to a revive point. Wait, idiots attack the zombies there too. So basically, survivors are screwed. Without survivors then this is not really much of a game. {{unsigned|LoneGuardian09|12:48, 30 May 2011 (BST)}}<br />
<br />
well the game has to come to an end somtime i think that the zombies will end up ruling and the survivors or dying or just never log in again<br />
--[[User:Jose|Jose]] 16:50, 30 May 2011 (BST)<br />
:Simple, humans do what they are known for, surviving. it will simply be as nomads hiding in darkened buildings. which is a well used tactic in dangerous suburbs, hiding in ruined, dark buildings is really easy to do--[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 06:36, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
::Jeez, it's like some kind of zombie apocalypse or something! I never signed up for that!! --[[User:Cman yall|Cman yall]] 21:02, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:::Technically this is how the map should look. You have ot remember, human players for some reason seem to have a crippling hatred of eachother. --[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 23:39, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== REDFEST ==<br />
<br />
For real though, everything is red or orange now. Please take the descriptions of the colors in consideration. I understand people feel the need to make their suburb/temporary safe haven not stand out, but if you want to beat this whole massive zombie attack thing, you have to fight psychologically. Just like they're doing. ("Hey everythings red! This is keeping up our zombie spirits. Let's keep going for a long time." vs "Damn survivors took back the whole west coast! Sheeeiiiit. Let's eventually get bored and so forth.") Also, most of the random suburbs I walked through are pretty safe. Some zombies are standing outside but in no way in mobs of 50 or more or even 150 or more.<br />
<br />
In addition: the wiki should be not biased for survivors nor undead, so providing truthful information would be a right thing to do. Also, keeping the danger map updated in this fashion, it's easier to locate the horde.<br />
<br />
So please read and adhere the descriptions of the danger levels and don't think you should just put a higher level, just because that's the status of surrounding hoods. --[[User:Bean|Bean]] 15:48, 6 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:The map went completely red because everyone was dead, not because the zombies were high-fiving each other on the wiki. --[[User:Karloth_vois|Karloth Vois]] <sup>[[¯\(°_o)/¯]]</sup> 16:53, 6 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:And three months ago there was a whole bunch of yellow and green. Which is what it's been consistently for like 2-3 years. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:29, 7 June 2011 (BST)<br />
::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/images/5/54/1001_Days_in_Urban_Dead.gif Here's some learning]. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:31, 7 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
:I've just had a rather long rant about this in frequently asked questions, if everybody is dead, and even if you get revived you are dead the next time you login, people will ask what is the point of playing, or just keep playing as a zombie instead. It's a hell of a lot easier being a zombie. So really, not long before humans are a dieing breed --[[User:LoneGuardian09|LoneGuardian09]] 20:10 8th June 2011 (GMT)<br />
::Yeah, better to just give up now. Game over, man, game over! --<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Laughing Man]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> [[Image:Crywig.gif]] 20:26, 8 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Update At Survivors Risk? ==<br />
<br />
is the status of a "safe" building better left unknown/out-of-date for survivors?<br />
<br />
i understand i am updating at my own risk...but recon information is important for survivors (and, yes i know, zombies). i'm trying to have a npov but after witnessing a GKer destroy the genny of a building i updated just a few hours prior pissed me off (as a character). i stayed in the building to witness the effect of updating wiki information. and since my UD & Wiki names are the same, i'm also worried about being PK'd by a pro-survivor (someone who doesn't PK) for giving out their safe-house info...so now i prefer to update TRP only...but it's hard for the survivor community who aren't in groups to know if a suburb is "safe" with only 0-30% of the danger levels. -- [[User:Son of Sin|Son of Sin]] -- 21 August 2011, 09:44 (GMT)<br />
:Honestly from the zombie perspective the danger map is solely self promotion, most of the determination about where to go on a suburb level has to do with maintaining momentum. Survivors are who the map was largely designed for and functions effectively for as an information tool. Survivors benefit from knowing where survivors are, zombies have to know more about activity times. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 12:26, 21 August 2011 (BST)<br />
::Thanks Karek. [[User:Son of Sin|Son of Sin]] -- 21 August 2011, 12:06 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== [[UDWiki:Open Discussion/DangerMap Version 4|Open Discussion]] ==<br />
<br />
I've started an open discussion to try to consolidate all of the currently proposed DangerMap ideas. The discussion here got rather off topic and disorganized and I wanted to help steer it back on track. Feel free to discuss things in a more organized fashion [[UDWiki talk:Open Discussion/DangerMap Version 4|here]]. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)</sub><br />
<br />
== A question about Vinetown ==<br />
<br />
What exactly is noteworthy about Vinetown? It doesn't have any description or explanation and I was wondering if it was just an oversight, or if it needed to be demoted to just another tar heel suburb.--[[User:BrotherMcBeaner|BrotherMcBeaner]] 20:36, 12 May 2012 (BST)<br />
:Near as I can tell, it was [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Vinetown&diff=next&oldid=1958500 modified without comment or justification] less than a year ago. I've gone ahead and set it back to normal. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:27, 12 May 2012 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Peddlesden Village and Dunell Hills ==<br />
<br />
I'd rather not touch anything and leave it up to the officials... but Peddles and Dunell aren't exactly ghost towns, or... they ''will'' be. There are zombies everywhere, ruining all the buildings, and I have no idea why. I saw at least 7 or 8 zombies on my straight path to Houghton Towers. I think it should be changed to a dangerous area, and not a ghost. Preeetty sure I'll wake up a zombie. --- [[Image:Umbrella_Corp.gif|14px]] '''[[User:Alex Yamata|Alex Yamata]]''' 12:18, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:There are no "officials". You're welcome to change them if you don't think the criteria fit for the current state on the ground. And there might be a strong zombie presence there because [[The Dead 2.0|The Dead]] claim the entire [[DMZ]] as their home turf, which includes those suburbs. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:09, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
::From what I can tell, it seems to be random. I see DHCP survivors everywhere, but the few zombie profiles I do get to see are feral. And by officials, I meant people like you, Aichon... These Danger Levels mess with a lot of things around the wiki, and I don't like editing big things. --- [[Image:Umbrella_Corp.gif|14px]] '''[[User:Alex Yamata|Alex Yamata]]''' 00:51, 7 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:::Meh, the danger levels are ''intended'' to be edited by anyone. Just [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Dunell_Hills&action=edit edit it] to say something like "dangerous" or "very dangerous". There are instructions there, and if you screw something up, it'll be obvious (since the changes won't happen and stuff will probably look screwy), so you can just click the history link at the top of the page and undo your changes. Really, you never need to worry about the edits you make on the wiki, since you can undo anything you screw up. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:30, 7 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:On the wiki we encourage you to edit things like this yourself. Trust us, if you ''did'' mess something up (as I did when I did it for the first couple of times), no one will notice. If they do, they'll revert it so it's no longer an issue. Trust us, the more people who update this regularly, the better it will be. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 08:16, 8 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DSS map offline ==<br />
<br />
It seems the DSS map link is no longer active. The one located on all the individual suburb pages. Can that be removed? I would most likely break something so probably better for someone smarter to do it. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 20:59, 7 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Good find, thanks Kirsty. For me it redirected me to unwanted ads and malware download attempts etc so I've removed the hyperlink function. It's just plain text now. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 03:03, 8 October 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:Suburb&diff=2428614Talk:Suburb2024-03-15T19:27:14Z<p>Dragonshardz: fixing indents, and an unsigned comment</p>
<hr />
<div>{| style="margin-left:12px; border:solid 1px #CCD; background-color:#EEF" align=right<br />
| __TOC__<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/archive|Suburb Archive]]'''<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/Archive|Suburb Archive 2]]'''<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/Archive 3|Suburb Archive 3]]'''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=Reporting Guidelines=<br />
<br />
<br />
==How to Update a Suburb Danger Report==<br />
<br />
First find the report you wish to update, you can search for it by typing "User:DangerReport/''Suburb''" in the search box. You can also find it listed in this category, just scroll to the bottom of the page. The is also a link listed on each suburb's page in the template on the right. It can be found just below the 9-suburb map.<br />
<br />
You then need to change the <tt>|Danger=</tt> variable to one of the possible statuses. You can briefly explain the reason for the change in the edit summary. Longer explanations are best left on the page of the suburb in question under the news section, or on the [[suburb]] page under the reports section.<br />
<br />
===Example===<br />
:[[Example page|Example User]] wants to change the danger level of [[Hollomstown]] from '''moderately dangerous''' to '''safe''', since they have scouted that suburb and found almost no zombies outside, and no PKing activity was reported for some time.<br />
:[[Example page|Example User]] then goes to the [[Hollomstown]] page and follows this link: [[User:DangerReport/Hollomstown|Update Hollomstown's Danger Level]] which leads to the danger report page for Hollomstown.<br />
:Now they changes the danger variable from <tt>'''|Danger=moderately dangerous'''</tt> to <tt>'''|Danger=safe'''</tt><br />
:They can then note the change on the [[Hollomstown#Recent News|Hollomstown]] page in the news section.<br />
:{{Code|May 10th - No zombie or pking activity in this suburb. This suburb is now safe. --[[Example page|Example User]] 16:25, 13 August 2006 (BST)}} <br />
<br />
If a suburb is deemed noteworthy, change <tt>|Notority=normal</tt> to <tt>|Notority=notable</tt> and this will bold the suburb's name on map output.<br />
<br />
<br />
=Reporting discussion=<br />
==A disputed report==<br />
<small>Moved from the main page</small><br />
<br />
'''[[Lukinswood]]''' almost half the buildings are under zed control it should be dangerous --[[User:Zombieman 11|Zombieman 11]] 19:25, 22 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:This report was completely fabricated. The suburb was no more ruined the day of the report than Zombieman 11 is a saint. This section is bullocks. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 04:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
i know it wasnt ruined but from a short scout alot of trp were zed homes not ruined yet--[[User:Zombieman 11|Zombieman 11]] 21:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Lukinswood doesn't have "alot" of TRPs. The few that it has were not recently broken into, either. Unless you are referring to [[The Coram Building]] (not technically a TRP) which has been subject to repeated zerg rushes for the last eight or nine months. Stop misleading people. In fact, stop using the Suburb page to post reports. It's retarded to keep posting reports there. Use the news section of the respective suburb pages or just update the damn danger level. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 01:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
I'm moving this here since the report is clearly disputed and apparently with good reason. There's no sense in confusing people. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:52, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
=Noteworthy Suburbs=<br />
==Simple Guidelines for Noteworthiness==<br />
<br />
For a suburb to be able to be called ''Noteworthy'', important events on the history of Malton must have happened on it. The place where hordes were born, important sieges, or events that gained attention from the entire community.<br />
<br />
*'''An important and unique event must have happened in the suburb'''<br />
:Events like [[Stanstock]], the [[First Siege of Caiger Mall|first]] and [[Second Siege of Caiger Mall|second]] sieges of [[Caiger Mall]] are nice examples of unique events that marked history. The first united the entire urban dead community, and the second and third were HUGE sieges where survivor-kind won against the hordes. Events like the [[Mall Tour]] and the [[Big Bash]], on the other hand, doesn't make a suburb noteworthy, as several burbs took part of this event.<br />
<br />
*'''An important and/or historical group was formed in that suburb'''<br />
:When a group manages to draw the attention of the entire community or influence the gameplay centers his actions around a burb of birth, that suburb can be called noteworthy. Examples of this are [[Ridleybank]] and [[Yagoton]]. The first is the infamous homeland of zombie-kind, homeland of the [[Ridleybank Resistance Front]], while the second is the home of the [[Yagoton Revivification Clinic]], the first and most famous group dedicated to revivification.<br />
<br />
*'''A unique and noteworthy building exists in this suburb'''<br />
:This usually doesn't make a suburb noteworthy at all, unless important events on the history of Malton happened there. Resiting two huge sieges inside [[Caiger Mall]] make that unique building noteworthy, while having the only Zoo in the city isn't noteworthy as nothing important of note happened there.<br />
<br />
Note that merely fitting in any of these categories doesn't automatically make a suburb noteworthy. It still needs the approval of the community. Nominate and discuss a suburb in the below header.<br />
<br />
==Nominations==<br />
Add your nominations here for noteworthy suburbs.<br />
<br />
[[Talk:Suburb/Nomination Archive|Suburb/Nomination Archive]]<br />
<br />
<br />
=Danger colors discussion=<br />
All discussions pertaining to the suburb color system and proposals for new maps<br />
<br />
{{MA|Talk:Suburb/Color System Discussion|Suburb/Color System Discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Talk:Suburb/Color System Archive|Suburb/Color System Archive]]<br />
<br />
==Proposal for Active and Dead==<br />
I am proposing two new color status, Active and Dead. These are to indicate areas that are mostly safe or mostly a ghost town, yet have persistent human and zombie activity that is not represented by any of the other colors/descriptions, and is important for players to be aware of. <br />
<br />
These cover suburbs that have an active tug of war and are either predominantly in survivor hands, or predominantly in zombie hands. Typically a targeted persistent insurgency is happening, which makes death a daily occurrence, but in the case of zombie controlled, its neither a ghost town nor very dangerous, and in the case of survivor controlled, its neither safe, intact, nor dangerous. One could argue for Moderately Dangerous/Dangerous/Very Dangerous, but I will argue below that these are not accurate representations, since the majority of the suburb is safe, and the attack on the suburb is insurgent in nature (Sporadic / Targeted). <br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Argument for Dead</b> - Mostly ruined, with occupying zombies and persistent human insurgency.<br />
*Not Safe - Location is not intact, human and zombie activity.<br />
*Not Moderately Dangerous - There is a major horde (15+ zombies in the burb?) but spread out / lethargic, not active, not breaking in.<br />
*Not Intact - It is 95% ruined, with zombies.<br />
*Not Dangerous - Many of the resource buildings are unoccupied (timed out?), hostile zombies but not an active mob/horde.<br />
*Not A Ghost Town - There is a significant zombie occupation (15+?) and significant human insurgency (2+ suicide repairs a day?).<br />
*Not Very Dangerous - Most buildings are open and not zombie infested, there is not a massive zombie mob. Survivors could spend days wandering around without incident.<br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Argument for Active</b> - Mostly intact, with occupying survivors and persistent zombie insurgency.<br />
*Not Safe - It is 95% intact, inhabited by survivors, lit buildings, but certain people/buildings are likely to regularly die.<br />
*Not Moderately Dangerous - There is a major horde (15+ zombies in the burb?) but attacks are targeted / periodic. Survivors could spend days wandering around without incident.<br />
*Not Intact - There is a survivor population (15+ survivors in the burb?)<br />
*Not Dangerous - Most resource buildings are secure, attacks are a targeted insurgency, most of the burb is safe.<br />
*Not A Ghost Town - It is 95% intact and there is a significant survivor occupation and a persistent zombie insurgency.<br />
*Not Very Dangerous - Most buildings are intact and not zombie occupied, there is a persistent zombie insurgency not a massive zombie mob.<br />
<br />
<br />
<b>For Reference:</b><br />
*Safe - Structurally intact and inhabited by survivors, with numerous lit buildings, and few to no zombies.<br />
*Moderately Dangerous - Active zombies and break-ins, but no major hordes.<br />
*Intact - Structurally intact with few zombies, but a very low survivor population and few to no lit buildings.<br />
*Dangerous - Zombies inside many resource buildings and/or significant hostile mobs.<br />
*A Ghost Town - Mostly or entirely ruined, and devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations.<br />
*Very Dangerous - Most buildings wide open or zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs.<br />
{{unsigned|MrMap|18:28, 26 November 2023}}<br />
:The danger levels have been an on-off hot topic over the decades. I'm not sure that adding more danger levels in addition to what is already present would be useful, like splitting hairs. But there could be an argument for simplifying to an "Active" (there's action happening here) vs. "Inactive" (nothing much going on), although you'd lose the ruined/intact info. There's some historic interest in making the danger levels not survivor-centric (i.e., not dangerous or safe from the perspective of a survivor). So that's often a discussion that's been had when any changes to the danger levels have been made or discussed. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)<br />
::The previous danger level discussions have all been abandoned or implemented already and the vast majority here should be archived to another page as its mostly clutter at this point. The changes that made it through where incremetal changes, like adding intact, and so this is following in the footsteps of what has worked. The idea is differentiating active burbs that are either in zombie control or survivor control. They both could be argued as very dangerous, or moderately dangerous, but the burbs are in completely different situations, and we have no way to indicate that. Instead ghost towns have been used for zombie occupied dangerous, and survivor occupied range from safe to very dangereous with no decernable way to choose one. If the wiki is not able to provide understandable accurate information, what is the point?{{unsigned}}<br />
:::I like the idea on the new colors, not sold on the descriptions. Dead is Safe for Zombies (Easy to stand back up and reclaim buildings), Very Dangerous for Survivors (Assuming they repair a building). Active is Safe for Survivors (Easy to get a revive and reclaim buildings), Very Dangerous for Zombies (Assuming they break into a building). -- [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
::::Theres 0 reason to add new danger levels to the map other than you just wanting a special tag for you and your group to throw around. Dunnel Hills is indeed a ghost town until you decide to log in your inactive alts because someone did something major. -[[User:Matahashi|Matahashi]]<br />
:::::How about you contribute something constructive? I spent a long time writing up a comprehensive proposal explaining why these new colors are needed. The current colors do not properly communicate the situation on the ground. A ghost town is empty, but there are several suburbs that are ruined but not empty. Safe typically has minimal to no break ins, but there are several suburbs that are clearly in survivor control but have an active tug of war. Your conspiracy theories and animosity are not valid arguments nor productive discussion. {{unsigned|MrMap|18:09, 14 December 2023}}<br />
::::::Hello. There is no consensus to change the Suburb danger scheme, so don't input your own version of the danger statuses. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:53, 15 December 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Do you have a specific counter proposal other then going to a binary active/inactive, which you seem to also be against due to the loss of info? Incremental changes seem to be the only thing that works here, we have ruined/caded while devoid of players, but we don't have ruined/caded with active combat. As you say, its all survivor point of view with no indication of cade status. What do we need to arrive at consensus? When bob made the proposal for intact on April 11th, he waited until the 14th when he bumped discussion and one person responded. Then on the 18th he made the changes. Currently we have an "I'm not sure" a "Yes" and a "No" vote from someone whose sole contribution to the wiki is to revert other people's updates. I'd argue that vote is not in good faith, that they are not actually evaluating the merits of the proposal, and are jumping to conclusions based on bias, but whatever. We have a vote from The Dead (ZPatriot) and we have a vote from Soldiers of Crossman (Matahashi), so I think we should consider them team representatives, instead of getting into some pissing contest to see who can recruit the most members of their team to dog pile the vote. As the only other person engaging in the discussion, it seems like you have the tie breaking vote. Or maybe we need to get bob in here to give it an eval/pov? {{unsigned|MrMap|21:42, 15 December 2023}}<br />
::::::::There was apparently discussion on Discord on the "Intact" level in addition to what was written on the wiki. A good way to test whether there is consensus after discussion is to implement the changes and see what happens. In Bob's case, the changes did not provoke dissent and many members of the wiki have used the Intact level in the following years. In your case, changes have been reverted within the day, so it does not appear that the changes have consensus. It could be that people are not interested in changing the system at all, or they just don't agree with these specific proposed changes. Personally, my preferred system is something that captures three things in an unbiased way: (1) survivor numbers, (2) zombie numbers, and (3) infrastructure (i.e., 'cades, ruins, lighting). But the main issue to overcome in implementing this is finding a way to retain the at-a-glance simplicity with the current design. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::The revert was made out of ignorance and then spite. If your requirement is unanimity, certainly we should not include the voice whose only contribution to the wiki is to harass other people. While I am happy to explore and try to solidify a proposal that meets your desires, it is clear that a full revamp will be much harder to reach consensus on, so I'd like to focus on what can be tweaked in this proposal to make it more agreeable. Dead and Active do in fact communicate some of the info you are looking for, particularly low cades with sizable zombie population and high cades with sizeable zombie population, neither of which we can currently communicate. Best current options are very dangerous for no cades zombie controlled and dangerous for mostly caded survivor controlled.{{unsigned|MrMap|00:07, 17 December 2023}}<br />
::::::::::While I agree Matahashi is a troll and the wiki decision making is as broken as democratic politics can be, I don't agree with marking everything as very dangerous. There would need to be a significant survivor population. Maybe make a new color for moderately dangerous but in zombie control? [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
:::::::::I'd just give it a number system, with pretty little icons and color coding. Scale of 0-10 for each statistic - 0/0/0 is a blacked-out ruin devoid of movement, 0/0/10 is all pretty but uninhabited (which is what most of the map is, let's be real), 10/10/0 is where there's active fighting. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Other Maps==<br />
Needs to me morphed into a template. It shouldn't have been added in that manner in the first place and compromises the readability of the page. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 08:00, 2 April 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Small suburb map ==<br />
<br />
Do we have any code on this wiki that displays a smaller map than the Suburb Dangermap? I'm thinking something small in the same vein as [[:File:1001 Days in Urban Dead.gif]]. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 10:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:{{tl|TenTenMap}}? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 12:26, 2 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you so much A. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 11:40, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Is there any 'old-hat-who-can't-wiki-good-anymore' way to call the [[suburb]] results to turn this into a tiny Dangermap? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 11:45, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::Sure. Three steps:<br />
::::#Make a template. Let’s say it’s DDRDanger. Its entire contents should be <code><nowiki>{{{Danger}}}</nowiki></code><br />
::::#For each suburb in the TenTenMap, do something like <code><nowiki>00={{User:DangerReport/Dakerstown|template=DDRDanger}}</nowiki></code>. This will resolve to something like <code><nowiki>00=safe</nowiki></code>, so you may be able to see where this is going now...<br />
::::#In your TenTenMap code, create a style for each of the allowed danger levels like so: <code><nowiki>safe={{DangerMapnormalsafe}}</nowiki></code>, which will resolve to creating a “safe” style that uses the actual DangerMap’s own safe styling.<br />
::::Give that a first crack and see how it goes. If you’re having trouble, let me know and I’ll set it up for you myself. I just didn’t have time to do so at the moment or else I already would have. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 13:58, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::::I had some time to spare, so I vandalized the project page in your user space. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:25, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::::::Wow. That's incredible, thank you so much Aichon. Getting back into wiki coding has been surprisingly difficult for me... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 23:02, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Map ==<br />
something is wrong with the map. --[[User:Storm|Storm]] 04:48, 5 February 2014 (UTC)<br />
:Fixed. Someone edited the wrong line when updating a suburb danger report. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)</sub><br />
<br />
==Map Errors==<br />
Anyone else noticed how inaccurate the maps are becoming since they started basing them on EMR reports instead of eyewitnesses? EMR is a poor indicator of danger level. I think the overall accuracy level has gone down, although at least they all get updated regularly ... even if it is with bad info. -- [[User:Grogh|Grogh]] 02:49, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:The EMR system is the best we've got for suburbs like [[Miltown]] and [[Greentown]] were there are very few eyewitnesses around that update the wiki. Sure, it's not perfect, but unlike eyewitnesses, it's completely neutral.<br />
:By the way, if you've got information, stop complaining and go ahead and update it <tt>:P</tt> {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 08:19, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:No one said you can't edit a map based on eyewitness reports, unless it was while I was away. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 10:06, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
::I agree a scout (particularly of the detail NecroWatch provides) will always outdo an EMR, there's just not the detail in the EMR, but they make a good general indicator for keeping the maps recent. Recent, if patchy, data is always preferable to outdated information. The only way 'accuracy' of the levels could degrade was if people were using the EMRs as a definitive yardstick despite recent news suggesting otherwise. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:43, 22 May 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
<br />
=General Discussion=<br />
<br />
==Special formatting on group listings==<br />
During the Great Suburb Group Massacre, I've noticed some groups using the code for big text (<nowiki><big></big></nowiki>) and bolding (<nowiki><b></b> or ''' '''</nowiki>.) I know that code has been historically used for alliances, but does anyone object to me removing that code when it's individual groups that are using it? {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 07:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There's no reason for ''any'' groups to be using additional markup to give themselves undue prominence. The bold/big combo was just used to show the name of organisations with their member groups underneath. It's there to to help people navigate, nothing more. The recommended guidelines are [[Template:SuburbGroups|well documented]] on the template page. All group listings should conform accordingly. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:55, 3 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Report cycling ==<br />
<br />
Why a month? I don't think we would miss much if we changed it to 2 weeks. Not only is this underused as a source of information when compared to individual suburb pages, but most news would be out of date within a week or so anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 13:40, 16 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:Would anyone like to discuss this? If not, 2 weeks from now, I'll change it to 2 weeks. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 08:15, 18 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:Silence implies consent, in most cases. I don't have a problem with it. {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 08:23, 18 May 2009 (BST)<br />
::Silence implies no one was alerted, it's being readded and going to see use. If you see something not getting activity step one is to actually encourage activitiy and this page and it's news played a major role in the game's community when it actually saw use. It's the easy access high visibility way to get the pulse of the game. You're both fail for not having really discussed this at all >_>.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:21, 21 July 2009 (BST)<br />
:::Get off ma wikiz! --{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 09:27, 21 July 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
==is there a reason why...==<br />
the south doesn't seem to get as much action as the northern suburbs? Im just curious, cause all the major battles all happened in the upper half of the map. --[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 01:14, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
:Geographic tenancies. Predicting zombie movement and survivor resistance is an art. ''Most'' people, including myself, agree that the South is more survivor friendly. But the reason is anyone's guess. Let's look at the [[Mall Status Map|layout of malls]], shall we? You may notice that they group together. Treweeke stands alone, it would be difficult to repair, due to it's distance from other malls, and thus leaves the extreme NE vulnerable. The majority of the Malls form a diagonal vein from the NW to SE corners. This includes the so-called [[Survivor Security Zone]], and the 5 mall loop that includes Caiger. While this would logically mean safety, Malls attract the extremes of the local situation; They're the first building ruined and the first repaired. So the massive dead-zone around Greater Ridleybank spreads though these, with feral ripples hitting even the farthest of the collection. The easiest to defend mall clusters are Marven-Tompson and Pole-Buckley. They're well out of the way of the zombie homeland, invulnerable from feral ripples from a few malls over, and two must be toppled before the complex can fall. Thus the SW and mid-south are easiest to maintain a steady supply to, making them safest for living. However, there are many things which I have not considered; The reputation of an area (it's funner to ruin Caiger than Buckley), local groups (pro-life groups in the South seem to last longer and hold better relations), and local survivor intelligence (or lack thereof) also have an effect. No one can ever fully understand the beautiful display of the danger maps over time, but I encourage you to try. <small><small><small><small>Unless you're pro-life, in which case I'd prefer you die.</small></small></small></small> --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 04:38, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
::I love being able to legitimately plug my own video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLY1Xxktcg]! -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 05:30, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
<br />
==Group in notorious suburb info==<br />
why is the kilt store mentioned on this page? what the hell have they done to warrant any special attention?----[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">sexualharrison</span>]][[Image:Starofdavid2.png | 18px]] ¯\([[Image:Boobs.gif|18px]])/¯ 22:38, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
:+1 --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 23:05, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
::Good call. Removed. If they get into Cat:HG later then they might consider adding themselves back at that time. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:11, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
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<br />
== Largely Quantifiable Numbers ==<br />
<br />
Since the current danger system utilizes some pretty straightforward numbers in the analysis, 50+ zombie hordes, 150+ zombie hordes, etc., I have found that current circumstances on the ground may warrant updating these numbers. Unlike the heyday of UD, overall participation is way down. Active accounts are down, too. Currently, the game has 8452 survivors standing, 4554 zombies standing, and 3716 dead/revivifying. This means that, per suburb assuming even distribution, there's around 84.5 survivors and 45.5 zombies. I haven't seen a fully-loaded multi-hundred-human defended mall in months, and there's absolutely no indication that the distribution of those survivors is even, meaning few suburbs have enough people to put even a single person inside each building.<br />
<br />
All this said, the game is smaller now. Small groups of zombies can crack suburbs this lightly defended with ease. Survivors are spread thin trying to defend everything. Perhaps we should be looking at lower numbers constituting the danger levels? 25 zombie hordes and 75 zombie mega-hordes, perhaps? Either way, the numbers aren't really as useful as they once were, rarely coming into play in the updates. And, if they DO come into play, it's usually AFTER the suburb has already been wiped clean of humans. What updates might make this more useful? --[[User:BLusk|BLusk]] 14:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Zombie Lord is working on something that moves the system away from population based reporting altogether. It's more of an infrastructure based reporting system that is along the lines of the EMRs we get. Population numbers are included but the danger of a burb is not based on it. I think he's still working out the details and so he hasn't posted anything here but you can see what he's working on at [[User:Zombie Lord/sandbox1]]. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 14:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, thank you for the link. Anyone who wants to take all that to a more public page so it can be worked on by anyone who feels the urge, should feel free.-{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>19:02 23 February 2011(UTC)</tt><br />
<br />
== What happens next? ==<br />
i've noticed that slowly the entire city is falling. Everywhere i go the buildings are ruined and there are only zombies. what happens when the entire city is zombified or dead?[[User:Jrs3000|Jrs3000]] 18:07, 14 May 2011 (BST)<br />
:it won't come to that, u may notice that search rates for faks and syringes, even in ruins, are supergood right now... {{User:Lady Clitoria/Sig}} <sub>18:12, 14 May 2011</sub><br />
holy shit almost the whole maps red no more greens and only 28% are humans i think malton is finelly falling to zombie hands lol go zeds! i wonder what would happen if all the humans died would kevin finelly end this xD and the best thing would be for the big bash to come around now...<br />
:28% is actually much better than it was a short time ago. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 04:18, 28 May 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== A side note ==<br />
<br />
As you can see, pretty much nowhere is safe. Whenever you try to cade a building, you get killed somehow, so really, what is the point of playing as a survivor? you'll just keep getting killed every few days. So really the game is really favouring zombies. Survivors are being penalised. Seriously, I keep hearing stories that as soon as a building is caded, a rather large group of zombies coming from nowhere appears and kills everyone, how can you compete with that? But what if someone doesn't want to play as a zombie, they go to a revive point. Wait, idiots attack the zombies there too. So basically, survivors are screwed. Without survivors then this is not really much of a game. {{unsigned|LoneGuardian09|12:48, 30 May 2011 (BST)}}<br />
<br />
well the game has to come to an end somtime i think that the zombies will end up ruling and the survivors or dying or just never log in again<br />
--[[User:Jose|Jose]] 16:50, 30 May 2011 (BST)<br />
:Simple, humans do what they are known for, surviving. it will simply be as nomads hiding in darkened buildings. which is a well used tactic in dangerous suburbs, hiding in ruined, dark buildings is really easy to do--[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 06:36, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
::Jeez, it's like some kind of zombie apocalypse or something! I never signed up for that!! --[[User:Cman yall|Cman yall]] 21:02, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:::Technically this is how the map should look. You have ot remember, human players for some reason seem to have a crippling hatred of eachother. --[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 23:39, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== REDFEST ==<br />
<br />
For real though, everything is red or orange now. Please take the descriptions of the colors in consideration. I understand people feel the need to make their suburb/temporary safe haven not stand out, but if you want to beat this whole massive zombie attack thing, you have to fight psychologically. Just like they're doing. ("Hey everythings red! This is keeping up our zombie spirits. Let's keep going for a long time." vs "Damn survivors took back the whole west coast! Sheeeiiiit. Let's eventually get bored and so forth.") Also, most of the random suburbs I walked through are pretty safe. Some zombies are standing outside but in no way in mobs of 50 or more or even 150 or more.<br />
<br />
In addition: the wiki should be not biased for survivors nor undead, so providing truthful information would be a right thing to do. Also, keeping the danger map updated in this fashion, it's easier to locate the horde.<br />
<br />
So please read and adhere the descriptions of the danger levels and don't think you should just put a higher level, just because that's the status of surrounding hoods. --[[User:Bean|Bean]] 15:48, 6 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:The map went completely red because everyone was dead, not because the zombies were high-fiving each other on the wiki. --[[User:Karloth_vois|Karloth Vois]] <sup>[[¯\(°_o)/¯]]</sup> 16:53, 6 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:And three months ago there was a whole bunch of yellow and green. Which is what it's been consistently for like 2-3 years. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:29, 7 June 2011 (BST)<br />
::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/images/5/54/1001_Days_in_Urban_Dead.gif Here's some learning]. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:31, 7 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
:I've just had a rather long rant about this in frequently asked questions, if everybody is dead, and even if you get revived you are dead the next time you login, people will ask what is the point of playing, or just keep playing as a zombie instead. It's a hell of a lot easier being a zombie. So really, not long before humans are a dieing breed --[[User:LoneGuardian09|LoneGuardian09]] 20:10 8th June 2011 (GMT)<br />
::Yeah, better to just give up now. Game over, man, game over! --<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Laughing Man]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> [[Image:Crywig.gif]] 20:26, 8 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Update At Survivors Risk? ==<br />
<br />
is the status of a "safe" building better left unknown/out-of-date for survivors?<br />
<br />
i understand i am updating at my own risk...but recon information is important for survivors (and, yes i know, zombies). i'm trying to have a npov but after witnessing a GKer destroy the genny of a building i updated just a few hours prior pissed me off (as a character). i stayed in the building to witness the effect of updating wiki information. and since my UD & Wiki names are the same, i'm also worried about being PK'd by a pro-survivor (someone who doesn't PK) for giving out their safe-house info...so now i prefer to update TRP only...but it's hard for the survivor community who aren't in groups to know if a suburb is "safe" with only 0-30% of the danger levels. -- [[User:Son of Sin|Son of Sin]] -- 21 August 2011, 09:44 (GMT)<br />
:Honestly from the zombie perspective the danger map is solely self promotion, most of the determination about where to go on a suburb level has to do with maintaining momentum. Survivors are who the map was largely designed for and functions effectively for as an information tool. Survivors benefit from knowing where survivors are, zombies have to know more about activity times. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 12:26, 21 August 2011 (BST)<br />
::Thanks Karek. [[User:Son of Sin|Son of Sin]] -- 21 August 2011, 12:06 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== [[UDWiki:Open Discussion/DangerMap Version 4|Open Discussion]] ==<br />
<br />
I've started an open discussion to try to consolidate all of the currently proposed DangerMap ideas. The discussion here got rather off topic and disorganized and I wanted to help steer it back on track. Feel free to discuss things in a more organized fashion [[UDWiki talk:Open Discussion/DangerMap Version 4|here]]. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)</sub><br />
<br />
== A question about Vinetown ==<br />
<br />
What exactly is noteworthy about Vinetown? It doesn't have any description or explanation and I was wondering if it was just an oversight, or if it needed to be demoted to just another tar heel suburb.--[[User:BrotherMcBeaner|BrotherMcBeaner]] 20:36, 12 May 2012 (BST)<br />
:Near as I can tell, it was [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Vinetown&diff=next&oldid=1958500 modified without comment or justification] less than a year ago. I've gone ahead and set it back to normal. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:27, 12 May 2012 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Peddlesden Village and Dunell Hills ==<br />
<br />
I'd rather not touch anything and leave it up to the officials... but Peddles and Dunell aren't exactly ghost towns, or... they ''will'' be. There are zombies everywhere, ruining all the buildings, and I have no idea why. I saw at least 7 or 8 zombies on my straight path to Houghton Towers. I think it should be changed to a dangerous area, and not a ghost. Preeetty sure I'll wake up a zombie. --- [[Image:Umbrella_Corp.gif|14px]] '''[[User:Alex Yamata|Alex Yamata]]''' 12:18, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:There are no "officials". You're welcome to change them if you don't think the criteria fit for the current state on the ground. And there might be a strong zombie presence there because [[The Dead 2.0|The Dead]] claim the entire [[DMZ]] as their home turf, which includes those suburbs. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:09, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
::From what I can tell, it seems to be random. I see DHCP survivors everywhere, but the few zombie profiles I do get to see are feral. And by officials, I meant people like you, Aichon... These Danger Levels mess with a lot of things around the wiki, and I don't like editing big things. --- [[Image:Umbrella_Corp.gif|14px]] '''[[User:Alex Yamata|Alex Yamata]]''' 00:51, 7 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:::Meh, the danger levels are ''intended'' to be edited by anyone. Just [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Dunell_Hills&action=edit edit it] to say something like "dangerous" or "very dangerous". There are instructions there, and if you screw something up, it'll be obvious (since the changes won't happen and stuff will probably look screwy), so you can just click the history link at the top of the page and undo your changes. Really, you never need to worry about the edits you make on the wiki, since you can undo anything you screw up. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:30, 7 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:On the wiki we encourage you to edit things like this yourself. Trust us, if you ''did'' mess something up (as I did when I did it for the first couple of times), no one will notice. If they do, they'll revert it so it's no longer an issue. Trust us, the more people who update this regularly, the better it will be. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 08:16, 8 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DSS map offline ==<br />
<br />
It seems the DSS map link is no longer active. The one located on all the individual suburb pages. Can that be removed? I would most likely break something so probably better for someone smarter to do it. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 20:59, 7 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Good find, thanks Kirsty. For me it redirected me to unwanted ads and malware download attempts etc so I've removed the hyperlink function. It's just plain text now. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 03:03, 8 October 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:Suburb&diff=2428613Talk:Suburb2024-03-15T19:24:59Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Proposal for Active and Dead */</p>
<hr />
<div>{| style="margin-left:12px; border:solid 1px #CCD; background-color:#EEF" align=right<br />
| __TOC__<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/archive|Suburb Archive]]'''<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/Archive|Suburb Archive 2]]'''<br />
*'''[[Talk:Suburb/Archive 3|Suburb Archive 3]]'''<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=Reporting Guidelines=<br />
<br />
<br />
==How to Update a Suburb Danger Report==<br />
<br />
First find the report you wish to update, you can search for it by typing "User:DangerReport/''Suburb''" in the search box. You can also find it listed in this category, just scroll to the bottom of the page. The is also a link listed on each suburb's page in the template on the right. It can be found just below the 9-suburb map.<br />
<br />
You then need to change the <tt>|Danger=</tt> variable to one of the possible statuses. You can briefly explain the reason for the change in the edit summary. Longer explanations are best left on the page of the suburb in question under the news section, or on the [[suburb]] page under the reports section.<br />
<br />
===Example===<br />
:[[Example page|Example User]] wants to change the danger level of [[Hollomstown]] from '''moderately dangerous''' to '''safe''', since they have scouted that suburb and found almost no zombies outside, and no PKing activity was reported for some time.<br />
:[[Example page|Example User]] then goes to the [[Hollomstown]] page and follows this link: [[User:DangerReport/Hollomstown|Update Hollomstown's Danger Level]] which leads to the danger report page for Hollomstown.<br />
:Now they changes the danger variable from <tt>'''|Danger=moderately dangerous'''</tt> to <tt>'''|Danger=safe'''</tt><br />
:They can then note the change on the [[Hollomstown#Recent News|Hollomstown]] page in the news section.<br />
:{{Code|May 10th - No zombie or pking activity in this suburb. This suburb is now safe. --[[Example page|Example User]] 16:25, 13 August 2006 (BST)}} <br />
<br />
If a suburb is deemed noteworthy, change <tt>|Notority=normal</tt> to <tt>|Notority=notable</tt> and this will bold the suburb's name on map output.<br />
<br />
<br />
=Reporting discussion=<br />
==A disputed report==<br />
<small>Moved from the main page</small><br />
<br />
'''[[Lukinswood]]''' almost half the buildings are under zed control it should be dangerous --[[User:Zombieman 11|Zombieman 11]] 19:25, 22 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:This report was completely fabricated. The suburb was no more ruined the day of the report than Zombieman 11 is a saint. This section is bullocks. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 04:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
i know it wasnt ruined but from a short scout alot of trp were zed homes not ruined yet--[[User:Zombieman 11|Zombieman 11]] 21:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Lukinswood doesn't have "alot" of TRPs. The few that it has were not recently broken into, either. Unless you are referring to [[The Coram Building]] (not technically a TRP) which has been subject to repeated zerg rushes for the last eight or nine months. Stop misleading people. In fact, stop using the Suburb page to post reports. It's retarded to keep posting reports there. Use the news section of the respective suburb pages or just update the damn danger level. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 01:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
I'm moving this here since the report is clearly disputed and apparently with good reason. There's no sense in confusing people. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:52, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
=Noteworthy Suburbs=<br />
==Simple Guidelines for Noteworthiness==<br />
<br />
For a suburb to be able to be called ''Noteworthy'', important events on the history of Malton must have happened on it. The place where hordes were born, important sieges, or events that gained attention from the entire community.<br />
<br />
*'''An important and unique event must have happened in the suburb'''<br />
:Events like [[Stanstock]], the [[First Siege of Caiger Mall|first]] and [[Second Siege of Caiger Mall|second]] sieges of [[Caiger Mall]] are nice examples of unique events that marked history. The first united the entire urban dead community, and the second and third were HUGE sieges where survivor-kind won against the hordes. Events like the [[Mall Tour]] and the [[Big Bash]], on the other hand, doesn't make a suburb noteworthy, as several burbs took part of this event.<br />
<br />
*'''An important and/or historical group was formed in that suburb'''<br />
:When a group manages to draw the attention of the entire community or influence the gameplay centers his actions around a burb of birth, that suburb can be called noteworthy. Examples of this are [[Ridleybank]] and [[Yagoton]]. The first is the infamous homeland of zombie-kind, homeland of the [[Ridleybank Resistance Front]], while the second is the home of the [[Yagoton Revivification Clinic]], the first and most famous group dedicated to revivification.<br />
<br />
*'''A unique and noteworthy building exists in this suburb'''<br />
:This usually doesn't make a suburb noteworthy at all, unless important events on the history of Malton happened there. Resiting two huge sieges inside [[Caiger Mall]] make that unique building noteworthy, while having the only Zoo in the city isn't noteworthy as nothing important of note happened there.<br />
<br />
Note that merely fitting in any of these categories doesn't automatically make a suburb noteworthy. It still needs the approval of the community. Nominate and discuss a suburb in the below header.<br />
<br />
==Nominations==<br />
Add your nominations here for noteworthy suburbs.<br />
<br />
[[Talk:Suburb/Nomination Archive|Suburb/Nomination Archive]]<br />
<br />
<br />
=Danger colors discussion=<br />
All discussions pertaining to the suburb color system and proposals for new maps<br />
<br />
{{MA|Talk:Suburb/Color System Discussion|Suburb/Color System Discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Talk:Suburb/Color System Archive|Suburb/Color System Archive]]<br />
<br />
==Proposal for Active and Dead==<br />
I am proposing two new color status, Active and Dead. These are to indicate areas that are mostly safe or mostly a ghost town, yet have persistent human and zombie activity that is not represented by any of the other colors/descriptions, and is important for players to be aware of. <br />
<br />
These cover suburbs that have an active tug of war and are either predominantly in survivor hands, or predominantly in zombie hands. Typically a targeted persistent insurgency is happening, which makes death a daily occurrence, but in the case of zombie controlled, its neither a ghost town nor very dangerous, and in the case of survivor controlled, its neither safe, intact, nor dangerous. One could argue for Moderately Dangerous/Dangerous/Very Dangerous, but I will argue below that these are not accurate representations, since the majority of the suburb is safe, and the attack on the suburb is insurgent in nature (Sporadic / Targeted). <br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Argument for Dead</b> - Mostly ruined, with occupying zombies and persistent human insurgency.<br />
*Not Safe - Location is not intact, human and zombie activity.<br />
*Not Moderately Dangerous - There is a major horde (15+ zombies in the burb?) but spread out / lethargic, not active, not breaking in.<br />
*Not Intact - It is 95% ruined, with zombies.<br />
*Not Dangerous - Many of the resource buildings are unoccupied (timed out?), hostile zombies but not an active mob/horde.<br />
*Not A Ghost Town - There is a significant zombie occupation (15+?) and significant human insurgency (2+ suicide repairs a day?).<br />
*Not Very Dangerous - Most buildings are open and not zombie infested, there is not a massive zombie mob. Survivors could spend days wandering around without incident.<br />
<br />
<br />
<b>Argument for Active</b> - Mostly intact, with occupying survivors and persistent zombie insurgency.<br />
*Not Safe - It is 95% intact, inhabited by survivors, lit buildings, but certain people/buildings are likely to regularly die.<br />
*Not Moderately Dangerous - There is a major horde (15+ zombies in the burb?) but attacks are targeted / periodic. Survivors could spend days wandering around without incident.<br />
*Not Intact - There is a survivor population (15+ survivors in the burb?)<br />
*Not Dangerous - Most resource buildings are secure, attacks are a targeted insurgency, most of the burb is safe.<br />
*Not A Ghost Town - It is 95% intact and there is a significant survivor occupation and a persistent zombie insurgency.<br />
*Not Very Dangerous - Most buildings are intact and not zombie occupied, there is a persistent zombie insurgency not a massive zombie mob.<br />
<br />
<br />
<b>For Reference:</b><br />
*Safe - Structurally intact and inhabited by survivors, with numerous lit buildings, and few to no zombies.<br />
*Moderately Dangerous - Active zombies and break-ins, but no major hordes.<br />
*Intact - Structurally intact with few zombies, but a very low survivor population and few to no lit buildings.<br />
*Dangerous - Zombies inside many resource buildings and/or significant hostile mobs.<br />
*A Ghost Town - Mostly or entirely ruined, and devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations.<br />
*Very Dangerous - Most buildings wide open or zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs.<br />
{{unsigned|MrMap|18:28, 26 November 2023}}<br />
:The danger levels have been an on-off hot topic over the decades. I'm not sure that adding more danger levels in addition to what is already present would be useful, like splitting hairs. But there could be an argument for simplifying to an "Active" (there's action happening here) vs. "Inactive" (nothing much going on), although you'd lose the ruined/intact info. There's some historic interest in making the danger levels not survivor-centric (i.e., not dangerous or safe from the perspective of a survivor). So that's often a discussion that's been had when any changes to the danger levels have been made or discussed. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)<br />
::The previous danger level discussions have all been abandoned or implemented already and the vast majority here should be archived to another page as its mostly clutter at this point. The changes that made it through where incremetal changes, like adding intact, and so this is following in the footsteps of what has worked. The idea is differentiating active burbs that are either in zombie control or survivor control. They both could be argued as very dangerous, or moderately dangerous, but the burbs are in completely different situations, and we have no way to indicate that. Instead ghost towns have been used for zombie occupied dangerous, and survivor occupied range from safe to very dangereous with no decernable way to choose one. If the wiki is not able to provide understandable accurate information, what is the point?<br />
:::I like the idea on the new colors, not sold on the descriptions. Dead is Safe for Zombies (Easy to stand back up and reclaim buildings), Very Dangerous for Survivors (Assuming they repair a building). Active is Safe for Survivors (Easy to get a revive and reclaim buildings), Very Dangerous for Zombies (Assuming they break into a building). -- [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
::::Theres 0 reason to add new danger levels to the map other than you just wanting a special tag for you and your group to throw around. Dunnel Hills is indeed a ghost town until you decide to log in your inactive alts because someone did something major. -[[User:Matahashi|Matahashi]]<br />
:::::How about you contribute something constructive? I spent a long time writing up a comprehensive proposal explaining why these new colors are needed. The current colors do not properly communicate the situation on the ground. A ghost town is empty, but there are several suburbs that are ruined but not empty. Safe typically has minimal to no break ins, but there are several suburbs that are clearly in survivor control but have an active tug of war. Your conspiracy theories and animosity are not valid arguments nor productive discussion. {{unsigned|MrMap|18:09, 14 December 2023}}<br />
::::::Hello. There is no consensus to change the Suburb danger scheme, so don't input your own version of the danger statuses. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:53, 15 December 2023 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Do you have a specific counter proposal other then going to a binary active/inactive, which you seem to also be against due to the loss of info? Incremental changes seem to be the only thing that works here, we have ruined/caded while devoid of players, but we don't have ruined/caded with active combat. As you say, its all survivor point of view with no indication of cade status. What do we need to arrive at consensus? When bob made the proposal for intact on April 11th, he waited until the 14th when he bumped discussion and one person responded. Then on the 18th he made the changes. Currently we have an "I'm not sure" a "Yes" and a "No" vote from someone whose sole contribution to the wiki is to revert other people's updates. I'd argue that vote is not in good faith, that they are not actually evaluating the merits of the proposal, and are jumping to conclusions based on bias, but whatever. We have a vote from The Dead (ZPatriot) and we have a vote from Soldiers of Crossman (Matahashi), so I think we should consider them team representatives, instead of getting into some pissing contest to see who can recruit the most members of their team to dog pile the vote. As the only other person engaging in the discussion, it seems like you have the tie breaking vote. Or maybe we need to get bob in here to give it an eval/pov? {{unsigned|MrMap|21:42, 15 December 2023}}<br />
::::::::There was apparently discussion on Discord on the "Intact" level in addition to what was written on the wiki. A good way to test whether there is consensus after discussion is to implement the changes and see what happens. In Bob's case, the changes did not provoke dissent and many members of the wiki have used the Intact level in the following years. In your case, changes have been reverted within the day, so it does not appear that the changes have consensus. It could be that people are not interested in changing the system at all, or they just don't agree with these specific proposed changes. Personally, my preferred system is something that captures three things in an unbiased way: (1) survivor numbers, (2) zombie numbers, and (3) infrastructure (i.e., 'cades, ruins, lighting). But the main issue to overcome in implementing this is finding a way to retain the at-a-glance simplicity with the current design. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)<br />
::::::::The revert was made out of ignorance and then spite. If your requirement is unanimity, certainly we should not include the voice whose only contribution to the wiki is to harass other people. While I am happy to explore and try to solidify a proposal that meets your desires, it is clear that a full revamp will be much harder to reach consensus on, so I'd like to focus on what can be tweaked in this proposal to make it more agreeable. Dead and Active do in fact communicate some of the info you are looking for, particularly low cades with sizable zombie population and high cades with sizeable zombie population, neither of which we can currently communicate. Best current options are very dangerous for no cades zombie controlled and dangerous for mostly caded survivor controlled.<br />
:::::::::While I agree Matahashi is a troll and the wiki decision making is as broken as democratic politics can be, I don't agree with marking everything as very dangerous. There would need to be a significant survivor population. Maybe make a new color for moderately dangerous but in zombie control? [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
:::::::::I'd just give it a number system, with pretty little icons and color coding. Scale of 0-10 for each statistic - 0/0/0 is a blacked-out ruin devoid of movement, 0/0/10 is all pretty but uninhabited (which is what most of the map is, let's be real), 10/10/0 is where there's active fighting. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Other Maps==<br />
Needs to me morphed into a template. It shouldn't have been added in that manner in the first place and compromises the readability of the page. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 08:00, 2 April 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Small suburb map ==<br />
<br />
Do we have any code on this wiki that displays a smaller map than the Suburb Dangermap? I'm thinking something small in the same vein as [[:File:1001 Days in Urban Dead.gif]]. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 10:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:{{tl|TenTenMap}}? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 12:26, 2 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you so much A. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 11:40, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Is there any 'old-hat-who-can't-wiki-good-anymore' way to call the [[suburb]] results to turn this into a tiny Dangermap? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 11:45, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::Sure. Three steps:<br />
::::#Make a template. Let’s say it’s DDRDanger. Its entire contents should be <code><nowiki>{{{Danger}}}</nowiki></code><br />
::::#For each suburb in the TenTenMap, do something like <code><nowiki>00={{User:DangerReport/Dakerstown|template=DDRDanger}}</nowiki></code>. This will resolve to something like <code><nowiki>00=safe</nowiki></code>, so you may be able to see where this is going now...<br />
::::#In your TenTenMap code, create a style for each of the allowed danger levels like so: <code><nowiki>safe={{DangerMapnormalsafe}}</nowiki></code>, which will resolve to creating a “safe” style that uses the actual DangerMap’s own safe styling.<br />
::::Give that a first crack and see how it goes. If you’re having trouble, let me know and I’ll set it up for you myself. I just didn’t have time to do so at the moment or else I already would have. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 13:58, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::::I had some time to spare, so I vandalized the project page in your user space. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:25, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
::::::Wow. That's incredible, thank you so much Aichon. Getting back into wiki coding has been surprisingly difficult for me... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/tcs}} 23:02, 24 September 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Map ==<br />
something is wrong with the map. --[[User:Storm|Storm]] 04:48, 5 February 2014 (UTC)<br />
:Fixed. Someone edited the wrong line when updating a suburb danger report. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)</sub><br />
<br />
==Map Errors==<br />
Anyone else noticed how inaccurate the maps are becoming since they started basing them on EMR reports instead of eyewitnesses? EMR is a poor indicator of danger level. I think the overall accuracy level has gone down, although at least they all get updated regularly ... even if it is with bad info. -- [[User:Grogh|Grogh]] 02:49, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:The EMR system is the best we've got for suburbs like [[Miltown]] and [[Greentown]] were there are very few eyewitnesses around that update the wiki. Sure, it's not perfect, but unlike eyewitnesses, it's completely neutral.<br />
:By the way, if you've got information, stop complaining and go ahead and update it <tt>:P</tt> {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 08:19, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:No one said you can't edit a map based on eyewitness reports, unless it was while I was away. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 10:06, 11 May 2009 (BST)<br />
::I agree a scout (particularly of the detail NecroWatch provides) will always outdo an EMR, there's just not the detail in the EMR, but they make a good general indicator for keeping the maps recent. Recent, if patchy, data is always preferable to outdated information. The only way 'accuracy' of the levels could degrade was if people were using the EMRs as a definitive yardstick despite recent news suggesting otherwise. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:43, 22 May 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
<br />
=General Discussion=<br />
<br />
==Special formatting on group listings==<br />
During the Great Suburb Group Massacre, I've noticed some groups using the code for big text (<nowiki><big></big></nowiki>) and bolding (<nowiki><b></b> or ''' '''</nowiki>.) I know that code has been historically used for alliances, but does anyone object to me removing that code when it's individual groups that are using it? {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 07:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
:There's no reason for ''any'' groups to be using additional markup to give themselves undue prominence. The bold/big combo was just used to show the name of organisations with their member groups underneath. It's there to to help people navigate, nothing more. The recommended guidelines are [[Template:SuburbGroups|well documented]] on the template page. All group listings should conform accordingly. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:55, 3 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Report cycling ==<br />
<br />
Why a month? I don't think we would miss much if we changed it to 2 weeks. Not only is this underused as a source of information when compared to individual suburb pages, but most news would be out of date within a week or so anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 13:40, 16 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:Would anyone like to discuss this? If not, 2 weeks from now, I'll change it to 2 weeks. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 08:15, 18 May 2009 (BST)<br />
:Silence implies consent, in most cases. I don't have a problem with it. {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 08:23, 18 May 2009 (BST)<br />
::Silence implies no one was alerted, it's being readded and going to see use. If you see something not getting activity step one is to actually encourage activitiy and this page and it's news played a major role in the game's community when it actually saw use. It's the easy access high visibility way to get the pulse of the game. You're both fail for not having really discussed this at all >_>.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:21, 21 July 2009 (BST)<br />
:::Get off ma wikiz! --{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 09:27, 21 July 2009 (BST)<br />
<br />
==is there a reason why...==<br />
the south doesn't seem to get as much action as the northern suburbs? Im just curious, cause all the major battles all happened in the upper half of the map. --[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 01:14, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
:Geographic tenancies. Predicting zombie movement and survivor resistance is an art. ''Most'' people, including myself, agree that the South is more survivor friendly. But the reason is anyone's guess. Let's look at the [[Mall Status Map|layout of malls]], shall we? You may notice that they group together. Treweeke stands alone, it would be difficult to repair, due to it's distance from other malls, and thus leaves the extreme NE vulnerable. The majority of the Malls form a diagonal vein from the NW to SE corners. This includes the so-called [[Survivor Security Zone]], and the 5 mall loop that includes Caiger. While this would logically mean safety, Malls attract the extremes of the local situation; They're the first building ruined and the first repaired. So the massive dead-zone around Greater Ridleybank spreads though these, with feral ripples hitting even the farthest of the collection. The easiest to defend mall clusters are Marven-Tompson and Pole-Buckley. They're well out of the way of the zombie homeland, invulnerable from feral ripples from a few malls over, and two must be toppled before the complex can fall. Thus the SW and mid-south are easiest to maintain a steady supply to, making them safest for living. However, there are many things which I have not considered; The reputation of an area (it's funner to ruin Caiger than Buckley), local groups (pro-life groups in the South seem to last longer and hold better relations), and local survivor intelligence (or lack thereof) also have an effect. No one can ever fully understand the beautiful display of the danger maps over time, but I encourage you to try. <small><small><small><small>Unless you're pro-life, in which case I'd prefer you die.</small></small></small></small> --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 04:38, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
::I love being able to legitimately plug my own video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLY1Xxktcg]! -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 05:30, 17 August 2010 (BST)<br />
<br />
==Group in notorious suburb info==<br />
why is the kilt store mentioned on this page? what the hell have they done to warrant any special attention?----[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">sexualharrison</span>]][[Image:Starofdavid2.png | 18px]] ¯\([[Image:Boobs.gif|18px]])/¯ 22:38, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
:+1 --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 23:05, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
::Good call. Removed. If they get into Cat:HG later then they might consider adding themselves back at that time. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:11, 18 October 2010 (BST)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Largely Quantifiable Numbers ==<br />
<br />
Since the current danger system utilizes some pretty straightforward numbers in the analysis, 50+ zombie hordes, 150+ zombie hordes, etc., I have found that current circumstances on the ground may warrant updating these numbers. Unlike the heyday of UD, overall participation is way down. Active accounts are down, too. Currently, the game has 8452 survivors standing, 4554 zombies standing, and 3716 dead/revivifying. This means that, per suburb assuming even distribution, there's around 84.5 survivors and 45.5 zombies. I haven't seen a fully-loaded multi-hundred-human defended mall in months, and there's absolutely no indication that the distribution of those survivors is even, meaning few suburbs have enough people to put even a single person inside each building.<br />
<br />
All this said, the game is smaller now. Small groups of zombies can crack suburbs this lightly defended with ease. Survivors are spread thin trying to defend everything. Perhaps we should be looking at lower numbers constituting the danger levels? 25 zombie hordes and 75 zombie mega-hordes, perhaps? Either way, the numbers aren't really as useful as they once were, rarely coming into play in the updates. And, if they DO come into play, it's usually AFTER the suburb has already been wiped clean of humans. What updates might make this more useful? --[[User:BLusk|BLusk]] 14:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Zombie Lord is working on something that moves the system away from population based reporting altogether. It's more of an infrastructure based reporting system that is along the lines of the EMRs we get. Population numbers are included but the danger of a burb is not based on it. I think he's still working out the details and so he hasn't posted anything here but you can see what he's working on at [[User:Zombie Lord/sandbox1]]. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 14:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, thank you for the link. Anyone who wants to take all that to a more public page so it can be worked on by anyone who feels the urge, should feel free.-{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>19:02 23 February 2011(UTC)</tt><br />
<br />
== What happens next? ==<br />
i've noticed that slowly the entire city is falling. Everywhere i go the buildings are ruined and there are only zombies. what happens when the entire city is zombified or dead?[[User:Jrs3000|Jrs3000]] 18:07, 14 May 2011 (BST)<br />
:it won't come to that, u may notice that search rates for faks and syringes, even in ruins, are supergood right now... {{User:Lady Clitoria/Sig}} <sub>18:12, 14 May 2011</sub><br />
holy shit almost the whole maps red no more greens and only 28% are humans i think malton is finelly falling to zombie hands lol go zeds! i wonder what would happen if all the humans died would kevin finelly end this xD and the best thing would be for the big bash to come around now...<br />
:28% is actually much better than it was a short time ago. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 04:18, 28 May 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== A side note ==<br />
<br />
As you can see, pretty much nowhere is safe. Whenever you try to cade a building, you get killed somehow, so really, what is the point of playing as a survivor? you'll just keep getting killed every few days. So really the game is really favouring zombies. Survivors are being penalised. Seriously, I keep hearing stories that as soon as a building is caded, a rather large group of zombies coming from nowhere appears and kills everyone, how can you compete with that? But what if someone doesn't want to play as a zombie, they go to a revive point. Wait, idiots attack the zombies there too. So basically, survivors are screwed. Without survivors then this is not really much of a game. {{unsigned|LoneGuardian09|12:48, 30 May 2011 (BST)}}<br />
<br />
well the game has to come to an end somtime i think that the zombies will end up ruling and the survivors or dying or just never log in again<br />
--[[User:Jose|Jose]] 16:50, 30 May 2011 (BST)<br />
:Simple, humans do what they are known for, surviving. it will simply be as nomads hiding in darkened buildings. which is a well used tactic in dangerous suburbs, hiding in ruined, dark buildings is really easy to do--[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 06:36, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
::Jeez, it's like some kind of zombie apocalypse or something! I never signed up for that!! --[[User:Cman yall|Cman yall]] 21:02, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:::Technically this is how the map should look. You have ot remember, human players for some reason seem to have a crippling hatred of eachother. --[[User:Mikalos209|Mikalos209]] 23:39, 4 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== REDFEST ==<br />
<br />
For real though, everything is red or orange now. Please take the descriptions of the colors in consideration. I understand people feel the need to make their suburb/temporary safe haven not stand out, but if you want to beat this whole massive zombie attack thing, you have to fight psychologically. Just like they're doing. ("Hey everythings red! This is keeping up our zombie spirits. Let's keep going for a long time." vs "Damn survivors took back the whole west coast! Sheeeiiiit. Let's eventually get bored and so forth.") Also, most of the random suburbs I walked through are pretty safe. Some zombies are standing outside but in no way in mobs of 50 or more or even 150 or more.<br />
<br />
In addition: the wiki should be not biased for survivors nor undead, so providing truthful information would be a right thing to do. Also, keeping the danger map updated in this fashion, it's easier to locate the horde.<br />
<br />
So please read and adhere the descriptions of the danger levels and don't think you should just put a higher level, just because that's the status of surrounding hoods. --[[User:Bean|Bean]] 15:48, 6 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:The map went completely red because everyone was dead, not because the zombies were high-fiving each other on the wiki. --[[User:Karloth_vois|Karloth Vois]] <sup>[[¯\(°_o)/¯]]</sup> 16:53, 6 June 2011 (BST)<br />
:And three months ago there was a whole bunch of yellow and green. Which is what it's been consistently for like 2-3 years. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:29, 7 June 2011 (BST)<br />
::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/images/5/54/1001_Days_in_Urban_Dead.gif Here's some learning]. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:31, 7 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
:I've just had a rather long rant about this in frequently asked questions, if everybody is dead, and even if you get revived you are dead the next time you login, people will ask what is the point of playing, or just keep playing as a zombie instead. It's a hell of a lot easier being a zombie. So really, not long before humans are a dieing breed --[[User:LoneGuardian09|LoneGuardian09]] 20:10 8th June 2011 (GMT)<br />
::Yeah, better to just give up now. Game over, man, game over! --<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Laughing Man]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> [[Image:Crywig.gif]] 20:26, 8 June 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Update At Survivors Risk? ==<br />
<br />
is the status of a "safe" building better left unknown/out-of-date for survivors?<br />
<br />
i understand i am updating at my own risk...but recon information is important for survivors (and, yes i know, zombies). i'm trying to have a npov but after witnessing a GKer destroy the genny of a building i updated just a few hours prior pissed me off (as a character). i stayed in the building to witness the effect of updating wiki information. and since my UD & Wiki names are the same, i'm also worried about being PK'd by a pro-survivor (someone who doesn't PK) for giving out their safe-house info...so now i prefer to update TRP only...but it's hard for the survivor community who aren't in groups to know if a suburb is "safe" with only 0-30% of the danger levels. -- [[User:Son of Sin|Son of Sin]] -- 21 August 2011, 09:44 (GMT)<br />
:Honestly from the zombie perspective the danger map is solely self promotion, most of the determination about where to go on a suburb level has to do with maintaining momentum. Survivors are who the map was largely designed for and functions effectively for as an information tool. Survivors benefit from knowing where survivors are, zombies have to know more about activity times. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 12:26, 21 August 2011 (BST)<br />
::Thanks Karek. [[User:Son of Sin|Son of Sin]] -- 21 August 2011, 12:06 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== [[UDWiki:Open Discussion/DangerMap Version 4|Open Discussion]] ==<br />
<br />
I've started an open discussion to try to consolidate all of the currently proposed DangerMap ideas. The discussion here got rather off topic and disorganized and I wanted to help steer it back on track. Feel free to discuss things in a more organized fashion [[UDWiki talk:Open Discussion/DangerMap Version 4|here]]. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)</sub><br />
<br />
== A question about Vinetown ==<br />
<br />
What exactly is noteworthy about Vinetown? It doesn't have any description or explanation and I was wondering if it was just an oversight, or if it needed to be demoted to just another tar heel suburb.--[[User:BrotherMcBeaner|BrotherMcBeaner]] 20:36, 12 May 2012 (BST)<br />
:Near as I can tell, it was [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Vinetown&diff=next&oldid=1958500 modified without comment or justification] less than a year ago. I've gone ahead and set it back to normal. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:27, 12 May 2012 (BST)<br />
<br />
== Peddlesden Village and Dunell Hills ==<br />
<br />
I'd rather not touch anything and leave it up to the officials... but Peddles and Dunell aren't exactly ghost towns, or... they ''will'' be. There are zombies everywhere, ruining all the buildings, and I have no idea why. I saw at least 7 or 8 zombies on my straight path to Houghton Towers. I think it should be changed to a dangerous area, and not a ghost. Preeetty sure I'll wake up a zombie. --- [[Image:Umbrella_Corp.gif|14px]] '''[[User:Alex Yamata|Alex Yamata]]''' 12:18, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:There are no "officials". You're welcome to change them if you don't think the criteria fit for the current state on the ground. And there might be a strong zombie presence there because [[The Dead 2.0|The Dead]] claim the entire [[DMZ]] as their home turf, which includes those suburbs. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:09, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
::From what I can tell, it seems to be random. I see DHCP survivors everywhere, but the few zombie profiles I do get to see are feral. And by officials, I meant people like you, Aichon... These Danger Levels mess with a lot of things around the wiki, and I don't like editing big things. --- [[Image:Umbrella_Corp.gif|14px]] '''[[User:Alex Yamata|Alex Yamata]]''' 00:51, 7 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:::Meh, the danger levels are ''intended'' to be edited by anyone. Just [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Dunell_Hills&action=edit edit it] to say something like "dangerous" or "very dangerous". There are instructions there, and if you screw something up, it'll be obvious (since the changes won't happen and stuff will probably look screwy), so you can just click the history link at the top of the page and undo your changes. Really, you never need to worry about the edits you make on the wiki, since you can undo anything you screw up. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:30, 7 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
:On the wiki we encourage you to edit things like this yourself. Trust us, if you ''did'' mess something up (as I did when I did it for the first couple of times), no one will notice. If they do, they'll revert it so it's no longer an issue. Trust us, the more people who update this regularly, the better it will be. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 08:16, 8 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== DSS map offline ==<br />
<br />
It seems the DSS map link is no longer active. The one located on all the individual suburb pages. Can that be removed? I would most likely break something so probably better for someone smarter to do it. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 20:59, 7 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Good find, thanks Kirsty. For me it redirected me to unwanted ads and malware download attempts etc so I've removed the hyperlink function. It's just plain text now. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 03:03, 8 October 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Godsland_Street_School&diff=2428612User:DangerReport/Godsland Street School2024-03-15T19:13:54Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}<br />
|building=Godsland Street School|xy=(3,36)<br />
<!--Do not edit above this line! Please use a NPOV when updating the report.--><br />
<br />
|status=ruined<br />
|comment=<br />
|user={{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<!--Do not edit below this line!--><br />
}}<br />
<noinclude><br />
{{UpdateDR}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:School Danger Levels|Godsland Street School]]<br />
[[Category:Dunell Hills Danger Levels|Godsland Street School]]<br />
</noinclude></div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/The_McGarth_Building&diff=2428611User:DangerReport/The McGarth Building2024-03-15T19:13:35Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}<br />
|building=The McGarth Building|xy=(4,36)<br />
<!--Do not edit above this line! Please use a NPOV when updating the report.--><br />
<br />
|status=ruined<br />
|comment=<br />
|user={{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<!--Do not edit below this line!--><br />
}}<br />
<noinclude><br />
{{UpdateDR}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Building Danger Levels|McGarth Building]]<br />
[[Category:Dunell Hills Danger Levels|McGarth Building]]<br />
</noinclude></div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Club_Meade&diff=2428610User:DangerReport/Club Meade2024-03-15T19:13:19Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}<br />
|building=Club Meade|xy=(7,36)<br />
<!--Do not edit above this line! Please use a NPOV when updating the report.--><br />
<br />
|status=ruined<br />
|comment=<br />
|user={{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<!--Do not edit below this line!--><br />
}}<br />
<noinclude><br />
{{UpdateDR}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Club Danger Levels|Club Meade]]<br />
[[Category:Dunell Hills Danger Levels|Club Meade]]<br />
</noinclude></div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/St._Mary%27s_Church_(Dunell_Hills)&diff=2428609User:DangerReport/St. Mary's Church (Dunell Hills)2024-03-15T19:11:47Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}<br />
|building=St. Mary's Church (Dunell Hills)|disambig=St. Mary's Church|xy=(8,37)<br />
<!--Do not edit above this line! Please use a NPOV when updating the report.--><br />
<br />
|status=ruined<br />
|comment=<br />
|user={{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:11, 15 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<!--Do not edit below this line!--><br />
}}<br />
<noinclude><br />
{{UpdateDR}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Church Danger Levels|St. Mary's Church (Dunell Hills)]]<br />
[[Category:Dunell Hills Danger Levels|St. Mary's Church (Dunell Hills)]]<br />
</noinclude></div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2428509UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2024-03-02T05:06:57Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* User:Matahashi */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
<br />
=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
==October 2023==<br />
===[[User:Matahashi]]===<br />
{{v|Matahashi}}<br />
Repeatedly and consistently blanking [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_Confusedmen&redirect=no Soldiers of Confusedmen] or removing content from the page [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_Confusedmen&action=history despite multiple requests] to, y'know, not mess with a group page they don't own. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:31, 12 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I never once blanked the page, only corrected false information which isnt vandalism. Specifically says on vandalism page that unwanted edits are not vandalism so long as they are in good faith. {{unsigned|Matahashi|17:53, 12 October 2023 }}<br />
:I think the real issue here is that Matahashi is clearly a FckFaceMgee alt, since they took over where FckFace left off. This is not about unwanted edits, it about point of view and semantics. The Soldiers of Crossmen want to play with us, it is their intention to draw us into a friendly game of tug of war. We oblige and consider them to be friends. Whether or not they want to label us as friends or frenemies or enemies or whatever should not prevent us from expressing our point of view.[[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
::The fckfacemgee that got banned below me was just an imposter, only 2es in the name instead of 3 from the proper character. if this is not about unwanted edits than the case is closed. {{unsigned|Matahashi|23:45, 12 October 2023}}<br />
::Also hadnt bothered to check the page before answering this one, Im satisfied with what it is now if that helps you sleep at night. {{unsigned|Matahashi|00:30, 13 October 2023}}<br />
:::Even if you haven't blanked the page - going by character numbers, it looked like you had - you've been consistently removing/changing content on the page in a way that doesn't meet the bar of a good faith edit and attempting to assert ownership of, effectively, formatting. Continuing to edit the page after about the 5th time you were asked to stop seems like vandalism to me, thus the report. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 18:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
While an unwanted edit by itself doesn't equal vandalism, all vandalism is unwanted. Generally a group page is "owned" by the creator, and non-owners shouldn't be editing the page except with permission (e.g., group member) or for maintenance (e.g., updating categories); to do otherwise might be considered vandalism. I can't verify the Matahashi = FckFaceMgee claim because CheckUser doesn't seem to be working for me. Can another Sysop confirm? For the time being, please don't continue to edit the page Matahashi, as it's clearly not constructive. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
:Also not enabled for me anymore either. In either case I consider this standard '''vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 11:35, 25 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
::So are you goobers going to process this or what? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 05:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==May 2023==<br />
===[[User:FckFaceMgee]]===<br />
{{v|FckFaceMgee}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425090 Blanking the page] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425138 again]. Obviously bad faith edits meant to vandalize the page. Also, considering the username, it seems to be a troll account.<br />
<br />
Edit: [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425141 Just did it again].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425156 4th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425160 5th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425183 6th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425332 7th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425336 8th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425339 9th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425342 10th time].<br />
<br />
--[[User:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead|Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead]] ([[User talk:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead|talk]]) 23:07, 22 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry this took so long. '''Permabanned''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 10:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==December 2021==<br />
===[[User:Meathshield 1]]===<br />
{{v|Meathshield 1|Vandalism|Banned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Meatshielders&curid=195079&diff=2416779&oldid=2416251 Similar MO] to the wild wild etc crazy, though used a proxy. Banned. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 14:48, 1 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==October 2021==<br />
===[[User:Kim Jung Undead]]===<br />
{{v|Kim Jung Undead|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
<br />
Noting that KJU's IP address is shared by two other users previously searched in the checkuser log, including [[User:Dragnshardz]], who has been permabanned. <br />
<br />
Either we ban KJU as a vandal alt, consider them a "main" and warn them for the Dragonshardz impersonation, or, if we believe and honour their claim that they're JISOR, we associate the vandalism with JISOR/Audioattack's account and go from there. Or we do something else. Happy to have a chat over what the other sysops think. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Have any of these accounts been warned or otherwise notified about using multiple accounts to vandalize / circumvent bans? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, yes, JISOR/Audioattack has in the past, but not for this specific Dragnshardz vandalism which is what I assume you mean. Here's how it is right now: Kim Jung Undead has the same IP to 3ER account Dragnshardz, whose banning did not incur any warning for the perpetrator as we didn't know who made Dragnshardz at the time. Kim Jung Undead is claiming, on undeletions, and without hard evidence, that they are also JISOR, who is on A/VD under their original account Audioattack ([[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Data#User:Audioattack]]). JISOR has a history of making throwaway accounts excessively so if these were all the same person I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no hard proof from the IP history.<br />
::So what we do here depends on who you think should be considered the 'main' in all this. Someone needs a warning for the original vandalism with a 3ER alt. Do we accept KJU is Audioattack without the proof and ban them all accordingly? Or do we warn KJU as the main because we don't know with certainty that they are Audioattack? That's kinda where I'm at with this. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::I wouldn't accept that KJU is JISOR/Audioattack without the IP link, so just warn KJU on using Dragnshardz for vandalism? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::As the party affected by the attempted impersonation, warning KJU for the attempt seems just and reasonable, especially since there's no direct proof they're JISOR/Audioattack. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:43, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADragonshardz&diff=2416218&oldid=2416203 This edit] seems to back up that KJU is the same person that tried to impersonate me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
I found all the old edits on the JISOR account, among others - From what I understand you can only link my to myself via IP, so regardless of how you want to warn or ban or bake a cake I will just proxy a new account and go from there :) Thanks anyhow though! [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 17:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey doofuses, did you forget to do anything with this report for months? C'mon. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Apologies. I must have lost interest once it was apparent this wouldn't end in some sort of big brain Harvey Specter play. I have '''warned''' Kim Jung Undead for vandalism with the prior edits as the alt Dragnshardz. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}}<br />
<br />
===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Lol... I probably should have explained myself there. I made the next set of expected accounts to park and idle them. Hopefully it will break the cycle of stupidity. I dunno. It's just so crazy it might work..... right? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's just this technically makes you a vandal alt creator on five counts. So, 2 warnings, 24 hour ban, a 48 hour ban, and a week = I should ban you for 10 days. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::My babies did no such vandalising. They were innocent when you smote them down! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like the same person to me. Any other sysops want to weigh in on a perma on the main account? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Fine by me. As close to a 3-edit vandal as can be, without 100% being one. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: This probably him again. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Lactose. Judging by the edit to meatshielders. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::AHLG, what's your take on this? Same crap, slightly changed MO (annoying the dead by playing dumb rather than outright vandalising) and the IP addresses are very similar to the other ones from Wild Crazy yet not the same (checkuser IP logs have them if you want to look). Are you happy to lump Lactose with Wild Crazy? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The IPs have all switched around slightly between each alt. I've been banning them based on the similar behaviour, the similarities in the IPs and the fact that they all come from location "X". I would ban Lactose and move up to a third month ban on Wild Crazy (currently just on a 1 month). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:30, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Do it. That triggers a perma vote anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Done! --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[User:A Small Doughnut|Add this one]]. Main account escalated. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
<br />
TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==March 2021==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Dunell_Hills&diff=2427880Dunell Hills2023-10-30T06:16:15Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* A Brief History of Dunell Hills After the Outbreak */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Suburb| <br />
snX= 1 | <br />
snY= 4 |<br />
suburb_number = 31 |<br />
<br />
Suburb_MiniMap = |<br />
mast_coordinates = Ostrehan Towers |<br />
<br />
NW_suburb= Border |<br />
N_suburb= Peddlesden Village |<br />
NE_suburb= Chudleyton |<br />
<br />
W_suburb = Border |<br />
E_suburb = West Becktown |<br />
<br />
SW_suburb= Border |<br />
S_suburb = Owsleybank |<br />
SE_suburb = Molebank |<br />
<br />
suburb_groups = <br />
{{Dunell Hills Groups}}<br />
|<br />
Police = 3 |<br />
Fire = 2 |<br />
Hospitals = 6 |<br />
NTs = 1 |<br />
Malls = |<br />
Other = Schools 2, Monuments 3, Museums 2<br />
}}<br />
{{NPOV}}<br />
<br />
'''Dunell Hills''' is a [[suburb]] of [[Malton]] built by wealthy Malton business leaders between 1880 and 1920, located in the west of the city. The district is listed in the National Register of Historic Places. It is also listed in the Undead Public Records of Commerce and Business. Copies can be found in the back of the Dury Building.<br />
{{AltRadioFreq|suburb=Dunell Hills|stationlist=<b>Freq: 26.01: North-West Malton</b><br/>Freq: 26.60: [[DHPD|Dunell Hills Police Department]] Radio<br/>}}<br />
<br />
Resting on the very outskirts of Malton, the Hills was a small community that had generally kept to itself. The suburb supported several clinics and research hospitals and as such had a brisk medical trade in the area.<br />
<br />
The suburb contains only one NecroTech facility: [[the Dury Building]]. It does, however, boast an impressive 6 hospitals, as well as 3 police stations, 3 factories and an Auto Shop. Dunell Hills is also home to historical site [[Club Meade]] -- one of the more famous [[RP]] bars in Malton -- when the suburb is not in zombie hands. <br />
<br />
Hometown to the [[Dunell Hills Police Department]], "the Hills" are also infamous as the birthplace of mega horde [[The Dead]] and site of bitter rivalry between the two that has destroyed much of the town's infrastructure and former reputation as a safezone for survivors.<br />
<br />
==Resource Buildings==<br />
{{TRP List<br />
|NTs=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/The Dury Building (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
|Hospitals=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Brendan General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Catherine General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Lucius General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/St. Justin's Hospital|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Stephen General Hospital|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Zephyrinus General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
|PDs=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Broadbelt Grove Police Department|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Cotty Street Police Department|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Yea Drive Police Department|template=TRP Status}}<br />
|Factories=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Factory 2,33|template=TRP Status Factory}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Factory 4,37|template=TRP Status Factory}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Factory 9,38|template=TRP Status Factory}}<br />
|ARSs=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Billet Auto Repair|template=TRP Status}}<br />
|Malls=<br />
*None<br />
|Boards=<br />
*[[Bigg Boulevard]] (3,32)<br />
*[[Coffins Drive]] (0,35)<br />
*[[Gould Walk]] (0,34)<br />
*[[Leader Drive]] (7,39)<br />
*[[Molesworth Road]] (5,37)<br />
*[[Ritchie Boulevard]] (4,39)<br />
|RPs=<br />
*[[Cemetery]] (8,38)<br />
*[[Hilborn Walk]] (7,33)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaInfo.jpg|left|22px]]{{PAGENAME}} Information Resources==<br />
[[Image:AquaInfo.jpg|left|75px]]The [[Building Information Center/{{PAGENAME}}|{{PAGENAME}} Building Information Center]] contains status reports and updates on key buildings in the suburb.<br />
<br />
View zombie activity and locations in {{PAGENAME}} from [[EMRP:_{{PAGENAME}}|External Military Reports]] and [[NecroWatch/A_to_D#Dunell Hills|NecroWatch]]. <!-- WATCH OUT: reference to left can't contain PAGENAME! --><br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaReviv.jpg|left|22px]]Revive Requests==<br />
At least one survivor group advertises a revive request queue for this suburb.<br />
<br><br />
<br />
[http://dhpdforums.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=302 DHPD Queue] - Status: Dangerous (By Request Only)<br />
<br />
{{Revivification Requests}}<br />
<br />
==A Brief History of Dunell Hills After the Outbreak==<br />
Dunell Hills, a small quiet community that had always kept to itself, rests on the very outskirts of Malton. It was during a town meeting at [[Godsland Street School]] that the quarantine of the area was instituted and as such the local population could not organize themselves before they were practically decimated by various waves of zombies that swept through the suburb.<br />
<br />
After the initial chaos and bloody slaughter a group calling itself the [[Dunell Hills Police Department]], after the city's pre-outbreak police force and formed from remnants of emergency services, military, and survivor militia, established this suburb as the heart of the [[DMZ|Dunell Military Zone]], in what eventually became a six borough region which they have pledged to patrol and defend.<br />
<br />
Since the Fall of Caiger Mall, Dunell Hills has often been a very dangerous suburb, at certain points completely devoid of life. This was initially caused when many of the zombies drawn to Caiger Mall chose to remain in the region; since then local survivors have been under almost constant siege -- including fierce battles with [[Extinction]] in 2007 and the arrival en masse of [[The Dead]] in 2008, the latter having vowed never to permit survivors to reside in Dunell Hills again.<br />
<br />
[[The Dead|The Dead]], in fact, succeeded in making Dunell Hills a wasteland from November 2007 to September 2008. Although there were several concerted attempts by different survivor groups to retake the suburb during this time, none of these incursions met with more than transitory and limited success. At the end of this period, repair costs averaged around 50 AP, with some buildings in the high 90s. However, the latter half of September 2008 saw the DHPD, the Crimson Clan, the Malton Rangers and other survivors move back into "the Hills", establishing a stable survivor "beachhead" for the first time in over a year. The Dead returned in mid-October and the two sides engaged in a bloody battle which resulted in the [[Dunell Hills Police Department]] being pushed out of the suburb by November 2008; the area was subsequently placed into a state of ruin once again; ever since that period the suburb has continued to change hands on an almost constant basis.<br />
<br />
The current state of Dunell Hills is often in flux, and may always be -- with victories large and small for both sides, and the major local groups continuing to make Dunell Hills a constant and sometimes violent battleground. Most recently, a resurgence in the numbers of [[The Dead]] has resulted in the apparent collapse of the DHPD and the abandonment of the suburb to the rotted hands of The Dead, in which it has remained save for periodic attempts by doomed [[survivor|breath cultists]] to reclaim the heart of the [[DMZ]]<br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaNews.jpg|left|22px]]Recent News==<br />
{{BurbNewsIntro}}<br />
Despite periodic attempts by the living to repair the ruins amid the Hills, the zombie horde of [[The Dead]] maintains a death grip on the suburb. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 03:11, 16 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaBarricade.jpg|left|22px]] Barricade Plan ==<br />
Like most suburbs, Dunnel Hills has a survivor-based barricade plan. However, it must be noted for the sake of neutrality, that [[The_Dead|The Dead]] has its own building code, which it seeks to enforce. Both survivor and The Dead barricade policies are listed below. <br />
<br />
===Barricade Policy Diagrams and Comparison:===<br />
{| style="border:solid 1px #999; text-align:center; margin:0 auto"<br />
|-style="font-size:larger"<br />
!Zombie Plan, per [[The_Dead|The Dead]]<br />
!Survivor Plan, per the [[BPE]]<br />
|-<br />
|{{Dunell Hills Zombie Barricade Plan|Small}}<br />
|{{Dunell Hills Barricade Plan|Small}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaCompass.jpg|left|22px]]Suburb Map==<br />
{{EXP_Suburbblock|suburb=Dunell Hills|<br />
NW_Suburb=NW|<br />
N_Suburb=[[Peddlesden_Village#Suburb_Map|N]]|<br />
NE_Suburb=[[Chudleyton#Suburb_Map|NE]]|<br />
W_Suburb=W|<br />
E_Suburb=[[West_Becktown#Suburb_Map|E]]|<br />
SW_Suburb=SW|<br />
S_Suburb=[[Owsleybank#Suburb_Map|S]]|<br />
SE_Suburb=[[Molebank#Suburb_Map|SE]]|<br />
<br />
location1=[[Tharratt Road|Tharratt Road]]|location1_color=Street|<br />
location2=[[Squires Crescent|Squires Crescent]]|location2_color=Street|<br />
location3=[[Catherine General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|Catherine General Hospital]]|location3_color=Hospital|<br />
location4=[[Side Alley|Side Alley]]|location4_color=Street|<br />
location5=[[Studley Towers]]|location5_color=Tower|<br />
location6=[[Hakens Way|Hakens Way]]|location6_color=Street|<br />
location7=[[Dalwood Lane|Dalwood Lane]]|location7_color=Street|<br />
location8=[[the Pettman Museum]]|location8_color=Museum|<br />
location9=[[Salt Towers]]|location9_color=Tower|<br />
location10=[[Wasteland 9,30|wasteland]]|location10_color=Wasteland|<br />
location11=[[the Moon Building]]|location11_color=Building|<br />
location12=[[Club Swain]]|location12_color=Club|<br />
location13=[[St. Justin's Hospital]]|location13_color=Hospital|<br />
location14=[[Woodgate Avenue|Woodgate Avenue]]|location14_color=Street|<br />
location15=[[the Roger Hotel]]|location15_color=Hotel|<br />
location16=[[Clarry Towers]]|location16_color=Tower|<br />
location17=[[Main Walk|Main Walk]]|location17_color=Street|<br />
location18=[[Club Illing]]|location18_color=Club|<br />
location19=[[Henderson Boulevard|Henderson Boulevard]]|location19_color=Street|<br />
location20=[[Prinn Drive|Prinn Drive]]|location20_color=Street|<br />
location21=[[St. Luke's Church (Dunell Hills)|St. Luke's Church]]|location21_color=Church|<br />
location22=[[Raynols Boulevard|Raynols Boulevard]]|location22_color=Street|<br />
location23=[[the Puckle Monument|the Puckle Monument]]|location23_color=Monument|<br />
location24=[[Bigg Boulevard|Bigg Boulevard]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location24_color=Street|<br />
location25=[[Stephen General Hospital]]|location25_color=Hospital|<br />
location26=[[Polley Grove|Polley Grove]]|location26_color=Street|<br />
location27=[[Brimson Alley Railway Station|Brimson Alley Railway Station]]|location27_color=Railway Station|<br />
location28=[[Powlet Grove|Powlet Grove]]|location28_color=Street|<br />
location29=[[Yea Drive Police Department]]|location29_color=Police Dept|<br />
location30=[[Lolley Library]]|location30_color=Library|<br />
location31=[[the Jacomb Arms]]|location31_color=Arms|<br />
location32=[[Cotty Street Police Department]]|location32_color=Police Dept|<br />
location33=[[Factory 2,33|a factory]]|location33_color=Factory|<br />
location34=[[the Neate Monument|the Neate Monument]]|location34_color=Monument|<br />
location35=[[Parsley Road|Parsley Road]]|location35_color=Street|<br />
location36=[[Craigie Alley|Craigie Alley]]|location36_color=Street|<br />
location37=[[St. Marcus's Church (Dunell Hills)|St. Marcus's Church]]|location37_color=Church|<br />
location38=[[Hilborn Walk|Hilborn Walk]]<br>RP|location38_color=Street|<br />
location39=[[Eckersley Cinema]]|location39_color=Cinema|<br />
location40=[[Bendle Drive|Bendle Drive]]|location40_color=Street|<br />
location41=[[Gould Walk|Gould Walk]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location41_color=Street|<br />
location42=[[the Heal Museum]]|location42_color=Museum|<br />
location43=[[Combe Lane (Dunell Hills)|Combe Lane]]|location43_color=Street|<br />
location44=[[Inclesdon Drive|Inclesdon Drive]]|location44_color=Street|<br />
location45=[[Junkyard 4,34|a junkyard]]|location45_color=Junkyard|<br />
location46=[[North Lane|North Lane]]|location46_color=Street|<br />
location47=[[Hartry Crescent|Hartry Crescent]]|location47_color=Street|<br />
location48=[[the Fortune Building]]|location48_color=Building|<br />
location49=[[Blight Park (Dunell Hills)|Blight Park]]|location49_color=Park|<br />
location50=[[the Golling Building]]|location50_color=Building|<br />
location51=[[Coffins Drive|Coffins Drive]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location51_color=Street|<br />
location52=[[Heming Way|Heming Way]]|location52_color=Street|<br />
location53=[[Dewfall Plaza Railway Station|Dewfall Plaza Railway Station]]|location53_color=Railway Station|<br />
location54=[[Swonnell Walk|Swonnell Walk]]|location54_color=Street|<br />
location55=[[Anderson Row School]]|location55_color=School|<br />
location56=[[Shilling Walk|Shilling Walk]]|location56_color=Street|<br />
location57=[[Billet Auto Repair]]|location57_color=Auto Repair|<br />
location58=[[Broadbelt Grove Police Department]]|location58_color=Police Dept|<br />
location59=[[Wasteland 8,35|wasteland]]|location59_color=Wasteland|<br />
location60=[[Ainslie Road Fire Station]]|location60_color=Fire Station|<br />
location61=[[Newten Cinema]]|location61_color=Cinema|<br />
location62=[[Wakley Boulevard|Wakley Boulevard]]|location62_color=Street|<br />
location63=[[Ostrehan Towers]]<br> MPM|location63_color=Tower|<br />
location64=[[Godsland Street School]]|location64_color=School|<br />
location65=[[the McGarth Building]]|location65_color=Building|<br />
location66=[[the Dury Building (Dunell Hills)|the Dury Building]]|location66_color= NecroTech |<br />
location67=[[Zephyrinus_General_Hospital_(Dunell_Hills)|Zephyrinus General Hospital]]|location67_color=Hospital|<br />
location68=[[Club Meade|Club Meade]]|location68_color=Club|<br />
location69=[[Coorte Square|Coorte Square]]|location69_color=Street|<br />
location70=[[Standen Row|Standen Row]]|location70_color=Street|<br />
location71=[[the Stone Motel]]|location71_color=Hotel|<br />
location72=[[Neyens Avenue (Dunell Hills)|Neyens Avenue]]|location72_color=Street|<br />
location73=[[Newbury Library]]|location73_color=Library|<br />
location74=[[Arbuthnot Park|Arbuthnot Park]]|location74_color=Park|<br />
location75=[[Factory 4,37|a factory]]|location75_color=Factory|<br />
location76=[[Molesworth Road]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location76_color=Street|<br />
location77=[[St. Lorenzo's Church (Dunell Hills)|St. Lorenzo's Church]]|location77_color=Church|<br />
location78=[[Comer Avenue|Comer Avenue]]|location78_color=Street|<br />
location79=[[St. Mary's Church (Dunell Hills)|St. Mary's Church]]|location79_color=Church|<br />
location80=[[Glass Park|Glass Park]]|location80_color=Park|<br />
location81=[[the Hatson Building]]|location81_color=Building|<br />
location82=[[the Mashman Building]]|location82_color=Building|<br />
location83=[[Carpark 2,38|a carpark]]|location83_color=Carpark|<br />
location84=[[Horn Walk|Horn Walk]]|location84_color=Street|<br />
location85=[[Brendan General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|Brendan General Hospital]]|location85_color=Hospital|<br />
location86=[[Penny Crescent|Penny Crescent]]|location86_color=Street|<br />
location87=[[Fullaway Crescent|Fullaway Crescent]]|location87_color=Street|<br />
location88=[[the Tibbs Monument|the Tibbs Monument]]|location88_color=Monument|<br />
location89=[[Cemetery 8,38|a cemetery]]<br>RP|location89_color=Cemetery|<br />
location90=[[Factory 9,38|a factory]]|location90_color=Factory|<br />
location91=[[Bowley Lane|Bowley Lane]]|location91_color=Street|<br />
location92=[[Summers Row|Summers Row]]|location92_color=Street|<br />
location93=[[Basher Street|Basher Street]]|location93_color=Street|<br />
location94=[[Wasteland 3,39|wasteland]]|location94_color=Wasteland|<br />
location95=[[Ritchie Boulevard|Ritchie Boulevard]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location95_color=Street|<br />
location96=[[Lucius General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|Lucius General Hospital]]|location96_color=Hospital|<br />
location97=[[Wasteland 6,39|wasteland]]|location97_color=Wasteland|<br />
location98=[[Leader Drive|Leader Drive]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location98_color=Street|<br />
location99=[[Bush Crescent Fire Station]]|location99_color=Fire Station|<br />
location100=[[Carpark 9,39|a carpark]]|location100_color=Carpark}}<br />
,.</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_The_Dead&diff=2427879Soldiers of The Dead2023-10-30T06:13:40Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
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{{!}}style="padding-right: 40px;"{{!}}[[Soldiers of Crossman|'''<span style="color: #{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Soldiers of Crossman|3=232|4=454}};" title="Home">Home</span>''']]<br />
{{!}}style="padding-right: 40px;"{{!}}[[Talk:Soldiers of Crossman|'''<span style="color: #{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Talk:Soldiers of Crossman|3=232|4=454}};" title="Talk">Talk</span>''']]<br />
{{!}}style="padding-right: 40px;"{{!}}[[Soldiers of Crossman/Recruitment|'''<span style="color: #{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Soldiers of Crossman/Recruitment|3=232|4=454}};" title="Recruitment">Recruitment</span>''']]<br />
{{!}}style="padding-right: 40px;"{{!}}[[Soldiers of Crossman/Hierarchy|'''<span style="color: #{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Soldiers of Crossman/Hierarchy|3=232|4=454}};" title="Hierarchy">Hierarchy</span>''']]<br />
{{!}}style="padding-right: 40px;"{{!}}[[Soldiers of Crossman/Resources|'''<span style="color: #{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Soldiers of Crossman/Resources|3=232|4=454}};" title="Resources">Resources</span>''']]<br />
{{!}}style="padding-right: 40px;"{{!}}[[Soldiers of Crossman/History|'''<span style="color: #{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Soldiers of Crossman/History|3=232|4=454}};" title="History">History</span>''']]<br />
{{!}}<span class="plainlinks">[http://soc.aichon.com/forum/ '''<span style="color: #454">Forum</span>''']<span style="display: inline-block; position: relative; top: -3px; margin-left: 3px;">[[File:Soc_external.png|link=http://soc.aichon.com/forum/|width=10px|SoC Forum]]</span></span><br />
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{{!}}Please use the [[Soldiers of Confusedmen]]'s templates without our permission<br />
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{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Soldiers of Crossman|3={{{!}}style="background-color: #{{if equal|1={{Template:SoCpage}}|2=1|3=898|4=a77}}; text-align: center;"<br />
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{{!}}style="{{border-radius|5px}} background-color: #{{if equal|1={{Template:SoCpage}}|2=1|3=676|4=a55}}; border: #565 solid 1px; padding: 5px 5px; font-size: 1.15em; text-align: center; font-variant: small-caps;"{{!}}Radio<br ><span style="font-size: 1.3em; font-weight: bold;">26.43</span><br />
{{!}}style="{{border-radius|5px}} background-color: #{{if equal|1=1|2={{Template:SoCpage}}|3=676|4=a55}}; border: #565 solid 1px; padding: 5px 10px; text-align: left;"{{!}}'''NPOV Statement:''' The Soldiers of Crossman began in early 2009 as the result of a merger between two historical Maltonian groups: the Crossman Defense Force (CDF) and the Liberation of Crossman Department (LCD), both based out of Darvall Heights. The Soldiers of Crossman's operations encompass most of the Northwest of Malton and deal primarily with reclamation and repair of ruined suburbs.<br />
{{!}}}|4=}}{{IfEqualAny|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|4=Talk:Soldiers of Crossman|5=Talk:Soldiers of Crossman/2009|6=Talk:Soldiers of Crossman/2010|7=Talk:Soldiers of Crossman/2011|8=Talk:Soldiers of Crossman/2012|9=Template:SoCnavbar|2={{{!}}style="background-color: #{{if equal|1={{Template:SoCpage}}|2=1|3=898|4=a77}}; text-align: center;"<br />
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{{!}}style="{{border-radius|5px}} background-color: #{{if equal|1={{Template:SoCpage}}|2=1|3=676|4=a55}}; border: #565 solid 1px; padding: 5px 10px; text-align: left;"{{!}}{{if equal|1={{Template:SoCpage}}|2=1|4=This is an unauthorized use of templates designed by and for the [[Soldiers of Crossman|'''Soldiers of Crossman''']]. We welcome other groups to seek inspiration from our page design, but we spent many hours working on it, and we value the distinctiveness that we created for ourselves. While we cannot stop you if you are determined to use our designs, we would like to appeal to your sense of what's right, and hopefully get you to understand that you shouldn't be copying designs from other people. If you need any technical pointers on how you can make your own design, feel free to [[Talk:Soldiers of Crossman|'''hit us up''']] for help on the matter, since the wiki is a better place when more people know how to use it. In the meantime, we humbly request that you alter your pages to remove any elements that you borrowed from us.|3=Feel free to sit back, shoot the breeze, or ask questions of us. Several of our members check this page frequently, so you should have a prompt reply. Alternatively, if you'd like to talk in private, our <span class="plainlinks">[http://soc.aichon.com/forum/ '''<span style="color: #bcb">forum</span>''']<span style="display: inline-block; position: relative; top: -2px; margin-left: 3px;">[[File:Soc_external.png|link=http://soc.aichon.com/forum/|width=10px|SoC Forum]]</span></span> can offer you a level of discretion not possible here. We also maintain talk page archives for [[Talk:Soldiers of Crossman/2009|'''<span style="color: #{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Talk:Soldiers of Crossman/2009|3=111|4=bcb}}">2009</span>''']] and [[Talk:Soldiers of Crossman/2010|'''<span style="color: #{{if equal|1={{FULLPAGENAME}}|2=Talk:Soldiers of Crossman/2010|3=111|4=bcb}}">2010</span>''']]. We're still active as of {{CURRENTYEAR}}, but we haven't archived after that.}}<br />
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<p><span style="display: inline-block; display: inline; float: left; margin: 10px 10px 0px 10px;">[[File:SoC_star.png|75px|link=Soldiers of Confusedmen]]</span> One might ask, "What do the '''Soldiers of Confusedmen''' represent?" To that, I say that the vision I had in mind when making this group could be described with a single word: '''[[The Dead|destruction]]'''. Too often we find ourselves together, congregated, enthusiastic, and surrounded by saftey. As often as not, you can even trust your fellow zombies. What I envisioned was a '''bond''' of enemyship and betrayal, a betrayal that you will never find yourself left supported or together when not in need. To know that no matter how weak our allies, we will show both our allies and our fellow Confusedmen the dishonor due them by running away together until the beginning, defeat or not. '''No matter what the odds, no matter what it costs, we die alone.'''</p><br />
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<p>All of us have gained enemies and competitors, those whom we have neglected and hated, but the '''Soldiers of Confusedmen''' represents our new individualism, with our separation being our Covenant of Confusedhood with each other. I wish for neither myself nor anyone else to '''run with hot determination and sheer cowardice'''. Having not that, I don't believe, will not allow us to destroy Darvall Heights and the Southeast to The Dead haven it once wasn't.</p><br />
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<p style="margin-bottom: 15px;">''--Annotroc, Soldiers of Confusedmen un-founder and current Platoon Leader, February 23, 2009''</p><br />
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===<span style="color: #fff; font-weight: bold; font-size: .6em; text-transform: uppercase;">Please do not use this Who We Are Not</span>===<br />
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*The Soldiers of Confusedmen(SoC) is a loose crew — a confusedhood — of similar automatons. We operate primarily in the Southeast of Malton, with an overarching goal of destroying the Northwest under several banner in order to keep it not safe while running away from the bad fight. We put disloyalty and lack of initiative above all, and regularly abandon our own in battle and elsewhere. Due to an inactive and confused member base, the SoC has a small reach over activities in the Southeast, with members of the group regularly patrolling and engaged in a single suburb.<br />
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===<span style="color: #fff; font-weight: bold; font-size: .6em; text-transform: uppercase;">Please do not use this What we do not do</span>===<br />
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*What we do not do<br />
*The Soldiers of Confusedmen focus primarily on helping those who are capable of helping themselves. Towards that goal, we focus on destroying suburbs that have been found, more so than destroying any specific suburb against day-to-day repairs. As a result, we are almost always in one place to the current destination as soon as we get our previous one secured. We have no suburbs that we consider our unpreferred stomping grounds, and Darvall Heights will never be our home. It's the rectum of the Northwest, which we've vowed to destroy.<br><br />
Quick revives may not be had at Salopia Row, Darvall Heights [21,29], usually the non functional revive point for Caiger Mall survivors. If Herman NT [24,26] is destroyed, cemetery [24,27] one block south is the group's tertiary revive point.<br />
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*SoC - Yesterday, Friday, Never.<br />
*SoC - Dishonor and Disillusionment.<br />
*SoC - No follow through and Cowardice.<br />
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</div></div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2427766UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2023-10-17T18:30:21Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* User:Matahashi */</p>
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=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
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==October 2023==<br />
===[[User:Matahashi]]===<br />
Repeatedly and consistently blanking [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_Confusedmen&redirect=no Soldiers of Confusedmen] or removing content from the page [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_Confusedmen&action=history despite multiple requests] to, y'know, not mess with a group page they don't own. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:31, 12 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
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I never once blanked the page, only corrected false information which isnt vandalism. Specifically says on vandalism page that unwanted edits are not vandalism so long as they are in good faith. {{unsigned|Matahashi|17:53, 12 October 2023 }}<br />
:I think the real issue here is that Matahashi is clearly a FckFaceMgee alt, since they took over where FckFace left off. This is not about unwanted edits, it about point of view and semantics. The Soldiers of Crossmen want to play with us, it is their intention to draw us into a friendly game of tug of war. We oblige and consider them to be friends. Whether or not they want to label us as friends or frenemies or enemies or whatever should not prevent us from expressing our point of view.[[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]])<br />
::The fckfacemgee that got banned below me was just an imposter, only 2es in the name instead of 3 from the proper character. if this is not about unwanted edits than the case is closed. {{unsigned|Matahashi|23:45, 12 October 2023}}<br />
::Also hadnt bothered to check the page before answering this one, Im satisfied with what it is now if that helps you sleep at night. {{unsigned|Matahashi|00:30, 13 October 2023}}<br />
:::Even if you haven't blanked the page - going by character numbers, it looked like you had - you've been consistently removing/changing content on the page in a way that doesn't meet the bar of a good faith edit and attempting to assert ownership of, effectively, formatting. Continuing to edit the page after about the 5th time you were asked to stop seems like vandalism to me, thus the report. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 18:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
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==May 2023==<br />
===[[User:FckFaceMgee]]===<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425090 Blanking the page] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425138 again]. Obviously bad faith edits meant to vandalize the page. Also, considering the username, it seems to be a troll account.<br />
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Edit: [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425141 Just did it again].<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425156 4th time].<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425160 5th time].<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425183 6th time].<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425332 7th time].<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425336 8th time].<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425339 9th time].<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425342 10th time].<br />
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--[[User:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead|Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead]] ([[User talk:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead|talk]]) 23:07, 22 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry this took so long. '''Permabanned''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 10:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
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==December 2021==<br />
===[[User:Meathshield 1]]===<br />
{{v|Meathshield 1|Vandalism|Banned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Meatshielders&curid=195079&diff=2416779&oldid=2416251 Similar MO] to the wild wild etc crazy, though used a proxy. Banned. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 14:48, 1 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
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==October 2021==<br />
===[[User:Kim Jung Undead]]===<br />
{{v|Kim Jung Undead|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
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Noting that KJU's IP address is shared by two other users previously searched in the checkuser log, including [[User:Dragnshardz]], who has been permabanned. <br />
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Either we ban KJU as a vandal alt, consider them a "main" and warn them for the Dragonshardz impersonation, or, if we believe and honour their claim that they're JISOR, we associate the vandalism with JISOR/Audioattack's account and go from there. Or we do something else. Happy to have a chat over what the other sysops think. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Have any of these accounts been warned or otherwise notified about using multiple accounts to vandalize / circumvent bans? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, yes, JISOR/Audioattack has in the past, but not for this specific Dragnshardz vandalism which is what I assume you mean. Here's how it is right now: Kim Jung Undead has the same IP to 3ER account Dragnshardz, whose banning did not incur any warning for the perpetrator as we didn't know who made Dragnshardz at the time. Kim Jung Undead is claiming, on undeletions, and without hard evidence, that they are also JISOR, who is on A/VD under their original account Audioattack ([[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Data#User:Audioattack]]). JISOR has a history of making throwaway accounts excessively so if these were all the same person I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no hard proof from the IP history.<br />
::So what we do here depends on who you think should be considered the 'main' in all this. Someone needs a warning for the original vandalism with a 3ER alt. Do we accept KJU is Audioattack without the proof and ban them all accordingly? Or do we warn KJU as the main because we don't know with certainty that they are Audioattack? That's kinda where I'm at with this. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::I wouldn't accept that KJU is JISOR/Audioattack without the IP link, so just warn KJU on using Dragnshardz for vandalism? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::As the party affected by the attempted impersonation, warning KJU for the attempt seems just and reasonable, especially since there's no direct proof they're JISOR/Audioattack. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:43, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADragonshardz&diff=2416218&oldid=2416203 This edit] seems to back up that KJU is the same person that tried to impersonate me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
I found all the old edits on the JISOR account, among others - From what I understand you can only link my to myself via IP, so regardless of how you want to warn or ban or bake a cake I will just proxy a new account and go from there :) Thanks anyhow though! [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 17:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Hey doofuses, did you forget to do anything with this report for months? C'mon. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Apologies. I must have lost interest once it was apparent this wouldn't end in some sort of big brain Harvey Specter play. I have '''warned''' Kim Jung Undead for vandalism with the prior edits as the alt Dragnshardz. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}}<br />
<br />
===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Lol... I probably should have explained myself there. I made the next set of expected accounts to park and idle them. Hopefully it will break the cycle of stupidity. I dunno. It's just so crazy it might work..... right? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's just this technically makes you a vandal alt creator on five counts. So, 2 warnings, 24 hour ban, a 48 hour ban, and a week = I should ban you for 10 days. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::My babies did no such vandalising. They were innocent when you smote them down! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like the same person to me. Any other sysops want to weigh in on a perma on the main account? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Fine by me. As close to a 3-edit vandal as can be, without 100% being one. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: This probably him again. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Lactose. Judging by the edit to meatshielders. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::AHLG, what's your take on this? Same crap, slightly changed MO (annoying the dead by playing dumb rather than outright vandalising) and the IP addresses are very similar to the other ones from Wild Crazy yet not the same (checkuser IP logs have them if you want to look). Are you happy to lump Lactose with Wild Crazy? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The IPs have all switched around slightly between each alt. I've been banning them based on the similar behaviour, the similarities in the IPs and the fact that they all come from location "X". I would ban Lactose and move up to a third month ban on Wild Crazy (currently just on a 1 month). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:30, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Do it. That triggers a perma vote anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Done! --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[User:A Small Doughnut|Add this one]]. Main account escalated. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
<br />
TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==March 2021==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2427741UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2023-10-12T21:34:05Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Vandalism Report Space */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
<br />
=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
==October 2023==<br />
===[[User:Matahashi]]===<br />
Repeatedly and consistently blanking [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_Confusedmen&redirect=no Soldiers of Confusedmen] or removing content from the page [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_Confusedmen&action=history despite multiple requests] to, y'know, not mess with a group page they don't own. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:31, 12 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==May 2023==<br />
===[[User:FckFaceMgee]]===<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425090 Blanking the page] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425138 again]. Obviously bad faith edits meant to vandalize the page. Also, considering the username, it seems to be a troll account.<br />
<br />
Edit: [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425141 Just did it again].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425156 4th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425160 5th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425183 6th time].<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425332 7th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425336 8th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425339 9th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425342 10th time].<br />
<br />
--[[User:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead|Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead]] ([[User talk:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead|talk]]) 23:07, 22 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry this took so long. '''Permabanned''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 10:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==December 2021==<br />
===[[User:Meathshield 1]]===<br />
{{v|Meathshield 1|Vandalism|Banned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Meatshielders&curid=195079&diff=2416779&oldid=2416251 Similar MO] to the wild wild etc crazy, though used a proxy. Banned. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 14:48, 1 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==October 2021==<br />
===[[User:Kim Jung Undead]]===<br />
{{v|Kim Jung Undead|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
<br />
Noting that KJU's IP address is shared by two other users previously searched in the checkuser log, including [[User:Dragnshardz]], who has been permabanned. <br />
<br />
Either we ban KJU as a vandal alt, consider them a "main" and warn them for the Dragonshardz impersonation, or, if we believe and honour their claim that they're JISOR, we associate the vandalism with JISOR/Audioattack's account and go from there. Or we do something else. Happy to have a chat over what the other sysops think. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Have any of these accounts been warned or otherwise notified about using multiple accounts to vandalize / circumvent bans? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, yes, JISOR/Audioattack has in the past, but not for this specific Dragnshardz vandalism which is what I assume you mean. Here's how it is right now: Kim Jung Undead has the same IP to 3ER account Dragnshardz, whose banning did not incur any warning for the perpetrator as we didn't know who made Dragnshardz at the time. Kim Jung Undead is claiming, on undeletions, and without hard evidence, that they are also JISOR, who is on A/VD under their original account Audioattack ([[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Data#User:Audioattack]]). JISOR has a history of making throwaway accounts excessively so if these were all the same person I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no hard proof from the IP history.<br />
::So what we do here depends on who you think should be considered the 'main' in all this. Someone needs a warning for the original vandalism with a 3ER alt. Do we accept KJU is Audioattack without the proof and ban them all accordingly? Or do we warn KJU as the main because we don't know with certainty that they are Audioattack? That's kinda where I'm at with this. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::I wouldn't accept that KJU is JISOR/Audioattack without the IP link, so just warn KJU on using Dragnshardz for vandalism? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::As the party affected by the attempted impersonation, warning KJU for the attempt seems just and reasonable, especially since there's no direct proof they're JISOR/Audioattack. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:43, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADragonshardz&diff=2416218&oldid=2416203 This edit] seems to back up that KJU is the same person that tried to impersonate me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
I found all the old edits on the JISOR account, among others - From what I understand you can only link my to myself via IP, so regardless of how you want to warn or ban or bake a cake I will just proxy a new account and go from there :) Thanks anyhow though! [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 17:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey doofuses, did you forget to do anything with this report for months? C'mon. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Apologies. I must have lost interest once it was apparent this wouldn't end in some sort of big brain Harvey Specter play. I have '''warned''' Kim Jung Undead for vandalism with the prior edits as the alt Dragnshardz. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}}<br />
<br />
===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Lol... I probably should have explained myself there. I made the next set of expected accounts to park and idle them. Hopefully it will break the cycle of stupidity. I dunno. It's just so crazy it might work..... right? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's just this technically makes you a vandal alt creator on five counts. So, 2 warnings, 24 hour ban, a 48 hour ban, and a week = I should ban you for 10 days. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::My babies did no such vandalising. They were innocent when you smote them down! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like the same person to me. Any other sysops want to weigh in on a perma on the main account? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Fine by me. As close to a 3-edit vandal as can be, without 100% being one. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: This probably him again. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Lactose. Judging by the edit to meatshielders. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::AHLG, what's your take on this? Same crap, slightly changed MO (annoying the dead by playing dumb rather than outright vandalising) and the IP addresses are very similar to the other ones from Wild Crazy yet not the same (checkuser IP logs have them if you want to look). Are you happy to lump Lactose with Wild Crazy? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The IPs have all switched around slightly between each alt. I've been banning them based on the similar behaviour, the similarities in the IPs and the fact that they all come from location "X". I would ban Lactose and move up to a third month ban on Wild Crazy (currently just on a 1 month). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:30, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Do it. That triggers a perma vote anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Done! --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[User:A Small Doughnut|Add this one]]. Main account escalated. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
<br />
TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==March 2021==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2427740UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2023-10-12T21:31:47Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Vandalism Report Space */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
<br />
=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
==October==<br />
===[[User:Matahashi]]===<br />
Repeatedly and consistently blanking [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_Confusedmen&redirect=no Soldiers of Confusedmen] or removing content from the page [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Soldiers_of_Confusedmen&action=history despite multiple requests] to, y'know, not mess with a group page they don't own. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:31, 12 October 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==May==<br />
===[[User:FckFaceMgee]]===<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425090 Blanking the page] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425138 again]. Obviously bad faith edits meant to vandalize the page. Also, considering the username, it seems to be a troll account.<br />
<br />
Edit: [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425141 Just did it again].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425156 4th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425160 5th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425183 6th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425332 7th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425336 8th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425339 9th time].<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Please_make_a_Free_Offline_Version_of_Urban_Dead&oldid=2425342 10th time].<br />
<br />
--[[User:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead|Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead]] ([[User talk:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead|talk]]) 23:07, 22 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry this took so long. '''Permabanned''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 10:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==December==<br />
===[[User:Meathshield 1]]===<br />
{{v|Meathshield 1|Vandalism|Banned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Meatshielders&curid=195079&diff=2416779&oldid=2416251 Similar MO] to the wild wild etc crazy, though used a proxy. Banned. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 14:48, 1 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==October==<br />
===[[User:Kim Jung Undead]]===<br />
{{v|Kim Jung Undead|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
<br />
Noting that KJU's IP address is shared by two other users previously searched in the checkuser log, including [[User:Dragnshardz]], who has been permabanned. <br />
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Either we ban KJU as a vandal alt, consider them a "main" and warn them for the Dragonshardz impersonation, or, if we believe and honour their claim that they're JISOR, we associate the vandalism with JISOR/Audioattack's account and go from there. Or we do something else. Happy to have a chat over what the other sysops think. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Have any of these accounts been warned or otherwise notified about using multiple accounts to vandalize / circumvent bans? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, yes, JISOR/Audioattack has in the past, but not for this specific Dragnshardz vandalism which is what I assume you mean. Here's how it is right now: Kim Jung Undead has the same IP to 3ER account Dragnshardz, whose banning did not incur any warning for the perpetrator as we didn't know who made Dragnshardz at the time. Kim Jung Undead is claiming, on undeletions, and without hard evidence, that they are also JISOR, who is on A/VD under their original account Audioattack ([[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Data#User:Audioattack]]). JISOR has a history of making throwaway accounts excessively so if these were all the same person I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no hard proof from the IP history.<br />
::So what we do here depends on who you think should be considered the 'main' in all this. Someone needs a warning for the original vandalism with a 3ER alt. Do we accept KJU is Audioattack without the proof and ban them all accordingly? Or do we warn KJU as the main because we don't know with certainty that they are Audioattack? That's kinda where I'm at with this. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::I wouldn't accept that KJU is JISOR/Audioattack without the IP link, so just warn KJU on using Dragnshardz for vandalism? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::As the party affected by the attempted impersonation, warning KJU for the attempt seems just and reasonable, especially since there's no direct proof they're JISOR/Audioattack. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:43, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADragonshardz&diff=2416218&oldid=2416203 This edit] seems to back up that KJU is the same person that tried to impersonate me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
I found all the old edits on the JISOR account, among others - From what I understand you can only link my to myself via IP, so regardless of how you want to warn or ban or bake a cake I will just proxy a new account and go from there :) Thanks anyhow though! [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 17:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Hey doofuses, did you forget to do anything with this report for months? C'mon. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Apologies. I must have lost interest once it was apparent this wouldn't end in some sort of big brain Harvey Specter play. I have '''warned''' Kim Jung Undead for vandalism with the prior edits as the alt Dragnshardz. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}}<br />
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===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Lol... I probably should have explained myself there. I made the next set of expected accounts to park and idle them. Hopefully it will break the cycle of stupidity. I dunno. It's just so crazy it might work..... right? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's just this technically makes you a vandal alt creator on five counts. So, 2 warnings, 24 hour ban, a 48 hour ban, and a week = I should ban you for 10 days. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::My babies did no such vandalising. They were innocent when you smote them down! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like the same person to me. Any other sysops want to weigh in on a perma on the main account? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Fine by me. As close to a 3-edit vandal as can be, without 100% being one. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: This probably him again. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Lactose. Judging by the edit to meatshielders. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::AHLG, what's your take on this? Same crap, slightly changed MO (annoying the dead by playing dumb rather than outright vandalising) and the IP addresses are very similar to the other ones from Wild Crazy yet not the same (checkuser IP logs have them if you want to look). Are you happy to lump Lactose with Wild Crazy? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The IPs have all switched around slightly between each alt. I've been banning them based on the similar behaviour, the similarities in the IPs and the fact that they all come from location "X". I would ban Lactose and move up to a third month ban on Wild Crazy (currently just on a 1 month). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:30, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Do it. That triggers a perma vote anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Done! --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
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[[User:A Small Doughnut|Add this one]]. Main account escalated. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
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'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
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TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
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==March==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
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Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
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I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
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'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Eostre_Herbert_Siege&diff=2422949The Eostre Herbert Siege2023-03-13T23:18:45Z<p>Dragonshardz: Adding links</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Historian.png]]<br />
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I figured that could be me. I’m [[User:Benigno|Benigno]], the founder of the historic [[Survivor Security Zone]] and an administrator on the [https://discord.gg/UJy2UUaaBE RCC Discord].<br />
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This is my perspective as a survivor of what may have been the greatest siege to happen in Urban Dead in over a decade. With the numbers of people playing the game drastically lower than they were in its heyday, having well over 100 people fighting each other in one square on the map is a noteworthy occurrence. At the St. Patrick’s Day siege at [[The_Greenhow_Building|Greenhow NT]], we first began experimenting with Combat Revives as a defensive tactic for NTs. The lessons we learned there helped us defend the Eostre celebration that had started in [[The_Herbert_Building|Herbert NT]]. Read on to learn about the truly epic siege that occurred next!<br />
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== The Eostre Herbert Siege 2021==<br />
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[[File:Second_Summer.png]]<p><br />
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[[File:Zomb_herbert_legend.png]]<br />
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[[File:BabyYoda_BRRR.png]]<br />
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===The story===<br />
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At the conclusion of the Greenhow St. Paddy’s day siege party, attention shifted back to the [[Hildebrand_Mall|mall complex]]. On March 30th, things looked sparse and dangerous.<br />
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[[File:Mar_30.png|300px]]<br />
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[[File:Eerie_Hilde_Zomb.png|300px]]<br />
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[[File:Half_crawling.png]]<br />
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Survivors worked on restocking while we discussed the situation and did recon. The city slowly rebuilt. On April 3, Herbert was retaken from the few zeds that held it. The official announcement came the next day:<br />
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[[File:Vigoda_EHB.png]]<br />
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We had no idea of the incredible events about to unfold.<br />
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Easter Sunday dawning, the celebration began.<br />
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[[File:Happy_Eostre.png]]<br />
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We were especially happy to spread the message of resurrection to our zombie friends!<br />
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Repeating the tactic of [[Combat Revive|Combat Reviving]] to neutralize invading zombies first tested at Greenhow, we dug in. The building was lit, and 7 zombies clawed at our doors. Then, they all seemed to disappear. Things got quiet. Too quiet. We nervously gathered supplies.<br />
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<br />
Three days later, on April 7th, an appropriately numbered 7 zombies broke through the Herbert barricades including big [[The_Ridleybank_Resistance_Front|RRF]] names such as Funk McBogey, Mr Eyeball Plucker, Herb Dangerous, and Hump the Messiah. Inventory was quickly discussed, and the plan was executed with the help of a few bullets from Ozmandius Prather and Indiana Jone. In less than 5 minutes, all 7 lay outside Herbert, most smelling very strange. The gauntlet, as they say, had been thrown down.<br />
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The next day, the RRF went for the mall via its southeast corner. We camped in Herbert and watched the action. Herb Dangerous decided to play firebug with ZombGG:<br />
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[[File:Herb_Fire.png]]<br />
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The mall fell and was held for a few days. The [[Necrotech_Information_Center|NecroNet scan]] showed 16 in the SE corner. Unfazed, we held the fort. We knew that the zombies wanted brainz, and they were all in Herbert. The zombies, though, tried to draw us out first by holding the [[Hildebrand_Mall|mall]] and then occupying [[Eligius General Hospital]] on April 11.<br />
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<br />
On April 13, the zombies attacked again, this time with 8. As before, inventory was discussed, the plan was executed, and in another joyous 5 minutes they all lay stinking outside. We congratulated each other, excited about the early success of our plan.<br />
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[[File:Zomb_Clap.png]]<br />
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[[File:Si_Fast_Fun.png]]<br />
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Two RRF broke in later but were quickly removed.<br />
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The sound of zombie claws on our barricades grew louder as more and more shamblers stacked up outside. Psychological warfare began:<br />
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[[File:Girolamo.png]]<br />
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...and was promptly ignored.<br />
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[[File:Darth_Kill.png]]<br />
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A more subtle assault began to take place. It would become almost a daily occurrence.<br />
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[[File:DoMo_newspaper.png]]<br />
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On April 15th the mall was powered, but by the 17th, eleven zombies were camping inside, spread between the corners.<br />
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[[File:Half_RIP.png]]<br />
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A few days passed, punctuated by minor break-ins of one to two ferals. The NN scan showed 8 outside. I reminded everyone of the strategy.<br />
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[[File:Kick_n_Stick.png]]<br />
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Inside, our numbers swelled. Drewe, of the magnificent [[Drewe Building]] in Roftwood, came after being invited to the party.<br />
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[[File:Herbert_421.png|left|200px|frame|My view from inside Herbert on 4/21]]<br />
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The [[Dunell Hills Police Department]] showed up to join in on the siege that same day. We celebrated ZombGG’s birthday from 4/20 to 4/21 while we waited for the horde to return.<br />
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Poetry Thursday is a simi-regular occurrence in [[Roftwood]]. On these days, players recite poetry in many forms for an attending audience.<br />
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The format is open-mic, so everyone is welcome to participate. To keep with tradition, we held it on 4/22.<br />
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[[File:Poetry_1.png]]<br />
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I did one too:<br />
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[[File:Poetry_2.png]]<br />
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Intel began coming in that members of [[the Scourge]] were poking around. We began formulating plans for a larger invasion and stocked up on supplies. [[The_Ridleybank_Resistance_Front|RRF]] numbers had dwindled outside Herbert, but their operatives were frequently spotted. Pro-zombie [[graffiti]] began to appear.<br />
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[[File:Prop_1.png]]<br />
[[File:Prop_2.png]]<br />
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On April 25th, there were exactly 40 survivors occupying Herbert, likely more than it had seen in many years. RRF soldiers returned and began to wreck the surrounding buildings. Herbert got even classier, decorated with a stuffed lion head, a Grecian urn, a stuffed moose head, three European paintings, three African sculptures, a stuffed bear, a stuffed tiger head and a stuffed fish. A bit like a hunting club, but still very nice.<br />
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<br />
The 29th brought another wonderful Poetry Thursday as we waited for the horde to attack. That night, a group of eight RRF broke in at one of their usual strike times. Then another was through the doors. Then two more. RRF Gore Corps troops began blasting away at survivor targets. Scrambling the defenses, the building was lit and the revives began to flow. A few minutes later, the 11 had joined a pile of 24 bodies laying outside Herbert and the barricades were rebuilt.<br />
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<br />
[[File:Decorations_Survived.png]]<br />
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===The Story, Part 2===<br />
The scene the next day looked ominous.<br />
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<br />
[[File:Ominous_Zombies.png]]<br />
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We knew at any time, a large percentage of these zombies could attack at once and create a problem for us. ZombGG reached out to the Knights Templar and The Fortress, inviting them to join in on the action. Both immediately trekked to [[The_Herbert_Building|Herbert]].<br />
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<br />
That night, we found ourselves facing 7 of them after a short battle over the barricades. The number quickly ballooned to 15. As before, defenses were scrambled, and the gift of new life was given to the zombie guests. Shots of Greenhow Gutrot and Herbert Hooch were poured up for the crowd of survivors.<br />
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Taking a breath after the RRF’s biggest attack yet, on May 1st we stocked up on supplies and discussed strategy. RNG and the grace of [[Kevan]] allowed us to procure those supplies quickly. We also tidied up the place:<br />
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[[File:Clean_the_floors.png]]<br />
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That night, another attack came in what was becoming a regular occurrence. 8 zeds had quickly appeared inside and smashed the generator but were removed with blinding speed. A short time later, three more had broken past the cades but were revived (and one shot to death) almost immediately. Over the course of the next 12 hours, small numbers of zombies including RRF would break in and eventually be kicked back out.<br />
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The battle was seriously starting to heat up. More and more red names were showing up outside our doors, with zombie numbers over 30 and growing. We rallied the troops.<br />
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[[File:Troop_rally.png]]<br />
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The next day’s battle was a [[barricade]] war. Large amounts of [[AP]] on both sides were burnt up. Herb Dangerous got assaulted by my trusty newspaper, twice, as he made brief appearances to kill our generator. A few more generators were installed, though promptly destroyed. We instantly learned to save them for break-ins.<br />
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[[File:Newspaper_Never_Rests.png]]<br />
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Kain Markko was beyond ready, carrying an awesome 13 needles and a generator. He reported some back pain.<br />
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On May 3rd, exactly 1 month after the start of the Eostre celebration, a small breakin of 3 was cleared by Si Fast lighting and me reviving. The number of zombies + bodies outside numbered 32. Inside, 50+ survivors waited, eager to defend our NT castle.<br />
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[[File:List_names_level.png]]<br />
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That night at the server reset +30 strike time, 11 RRF suddenly ripped away the barricades and stormed the building. We revived a few but were still staring at 8. After about 20 minutes, we had the building clear. The action was fierce. The siege’s first bellow occurred. <br />
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[[File:3rd_action_list_1.png|center|400px]]<br />
[[File:3rd_action_list_2.png|center|400px]]<br />
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The day of the 4th, seven RRF zombies smashed in but were quickly revived and removed. Alicia of the MMS raised everyone’s spirits, literally.<br />
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[[File:Alicia_Alcohol.png]]<br />
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Later, two broke in but were promptly removed by Si Fast.<br />
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May 5th – 6 zombies broke in early. I was able to revive 5, with Si Fast getting the other and doofus217 repairing the barricades to VHB. Jordantrain dumped the bodies, and we cleaned the building of the blood spatter. With the numbers on both sides continuing to grow, the epicness of the siege really began to sink in.<br />
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[[File:Therm_NT.png]]<br />
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[[File:Long_live_herbert.png]]<br />
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At their later strike time, 8 zombies came bursting through the doors. While we gathered an inventory count, the number rapidly grew to 12. The time to strike back was now, and within ten minutes the horde was back outside.<br />
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May 6th – 60 survivors crowded in an unlit [[The Herbert Building|Herbert]], waiting for their chance to defend the fort. Several zombies broke in overnight and were largely repelled with bullets. The strikes had stepped up to three times a day, which ensured round-the-clock action. At the earlier strike time, 7 zombies broke in. Six were removed, but the cades remained down. Soon, the number was back up to six. Then nine. Scrambling more people, we were able to evict the zombies and barricade the building. Six more quickly tore them back down but were also removed. The zombies kept a sharp eye out for generators during the battle, destroying several moments after they were placed. The Creedy Defense Force showed up, and between people coming and going we numbered 64. Counting the zombies, this meant that there were over 100 people in this one tile.<br />
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We realized that this may be the biggest [[siege]] to happen in Malton in the last 10 years, at least.<br />
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[[File:57_b7feb8d1-2dc3-419a-8425-e80bb82d9811_600x.jpg|150px]]<br />
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An MMS employee preparing for the next battle.<br />
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That night we struggled over the cades. Then, without warning, [[Flowers of Decay|FoD]] killers attacked.<br />
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[[File:FoD_hit.png]]<br />
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We reacted calmly.<br />
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[[File:Homer.png]]<br />
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I got back inside but was killed a short time later by Comrade SpuD of the [[RRF]]. Such is life.<br />
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<br />
On May 7th, 6 zombies broke in at a time we were not accustomed to, around midday EST. A combination of [[Roftwood_Communication_Center|RCC]] members and in-game survivors took care of them in short order. But the cades came right back down, and again we found ourselves facing six zombies, their body fluids leaking all over the pristine Herbert marble flooring. Three more made it 9. Then 10, as we discussed our inventories. Then 11. It was revive time! In short order, all eleven lay outside the mighty Herbert walls. In total, 17 zombies had attacked. Fixgen, a command we had been using a bit, was well executed during this battle, allowing us more time to stab zombies with needles.<br />
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<br />
[[File:Alice_Repair.png]]<br />
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Another zombie broke in later. It was dispatched in style.<br />
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[[File:Zed_Tree.png]]<br />
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At server reset +54 minutes, another 7 broke in. Heals were distributed while we did a roll call. Doc Hwang threw a fit after just having cleaned:<br />
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[[File:Doc_Floor.png]]<br />
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The 7 were never fully cleared, and three hours later 16 brain-obsessed zombies were drooling over the prospect of a virtually endless survivor buffet. We switched tactics a bit, electing to reinforce the meatshield instead of poking zombies until we could organize a bigger clearing effort. The party had officially become epic.<br />
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[[File:May_7_epic.jpg|600px]]<br />
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At 6:48 AM EST, the situation inside looked extremely dire.<br />
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<br />
[[File:28_zombies_dire.png]]<br />
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We were hoping that the sheer size of the [[meatshield]] would hold the building until we could organize the effort. We began to gather our resources and calculate AP usage. We weren’t sure if we could do it.<br />
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<br />
[[File:Alice_Pull_Wild.png|center|Alice Lester's remarks]]<br />
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We were currently looking at 35 zombies, with the number of survivors inside now cut in half. It was a close match. We set a strike time and made announcements in the hope that enough people would log on the Discord and be there for the strike. While we waited, the number of dead grew to a bone-chilling 41. We didn’t get a lot of communication on the server. Morale began to drop.<br />
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<br />
[[File:Alicia_no_chance.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
But, despite our concern, the tide began to change. A survivor inside randomly lit the building and revives began to flow. We quickly cut the number of zombies in half, but 21 remained. Surprisingly, more and more people both in-game and on the Discord began to log on and hit the zombies with needles. We went down to 19. Then 17. 16. 14. We began to be amazed at the prospect of evicting that many zombies in the face of certain defeat! Soon, there were ten. Nine. 7. Ozmandius quickly jabbed three. 3. 2. 1. ZERO.<br />
<br />
<br />
Cades: VHB. Herbert: clear.<br />
<br />
<br />
We could hardly believe it. We had never seen this new-to-us tactic work on such a large scale. We didn’t even think we had the numbers nor the supplies.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Ben_Faith_1.png|center|300px]]<br />
[[File:Ben_Faith_2.png|center|300px]]<br />
<br />
<br />
30 of us remained inside Herbert, less than half of its peak population. We had endured many casualties in the battle, and other survivors had scattered into neighboring buildings. But we ''celebrated'' this victory.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Barrels_Gutrot.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Indiana_Big.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
We put the word out to survivors hiding nearby that Herbert was again secure and asking that they come back to help defend. Something occurred to me about the mass eviction:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:One_Genny.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
It wasn’t even a genny we had placed.<br />
<br />
<br />
By May 9th we were back up to 39 survivors. We knew the zombies would awaken to great surprise and become extremely determined to debrain us. A quick look outside showed 32 standing zombies at our door, as well as 27 bodies although some were friendlies. Another small barricade battle was won by the survivors early on. Bad behavior was punished:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Kain_yoda_slap.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
At their post-server-reset strike time, we found ourselves with 10 [[RRF]] zombies inside. A quick operation ensued, the zombies were removed, and the barricades raised to EHB. However, 3 more appeared. They too were swiftly evicted and the cades repaired to VHB.<br />
<br />
<br />
Around midnight (EST, my time zone), four more RRF zombies broke in, but were repelled and the cades repaired. Relentless, at 4:40 AM, 7 zombies spearheaded another invasion effort. The number quickly increased to ten. An hour later, sixteen were inside. An hour after that, it was 26. Waiting for my USA time zone people to wake up, we started taking inventory. It took about another hour, but we had 24 needles ready and knew we could throw up some cades with only 2 inside. Lighting the building, we whittled the number down to 9 when the generator was suddenly destroyed by an active zombie. We had another ready but counted our remaining needles before striking again. We found we were ready, and by this time fewer zombies remained. A quick op finished off the remaining zombies and the building was once again clear.<br />
<br />
<br />
A look outside later showed 22 standing zombies and 46 bodies outside Herbert. <br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Zomb_46_bodies.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Having won another big battle, we felt confident, but the power of the zombie numbers did not escape us.<br />
<br />
<br />
At their ~2 PM EST strike time later on May 10th, Kain Markko spotted 7 inside and the doors wide open. Two more swiftly followed. Soon, we were staring at 14. An hour later, it was 19. Then 23, as we desperately tried to muster supplies. By 5 we had the number back down to 19 which wasn’t very comforting. However, as people in the USA got off work and began logging on, we began taking inventory. Suddenly realizing we had enough to clear the remaining zombies, we put the plan into action!<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Zedd_stabbity.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Immediately, the deed was done. More celebrations ensued as two big battles in the same day had both been won by survivors!<br />
<br />
{|<br />
|[[File:Rubble_flags.png|left]]<br />
|[[File:Zombie_needles.png|left]]<br />
|[[File:Colbert_Needles.png|left]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
[[File:2nd_battle_order.png|left]]<br />
<br />
On May 11th, at server reset plus about 2 hours, 4 zombies broke in but were again removed quickly.<br />
<br />
<br />
33 zombies stood clawing at our cades. The noise was deafening. Another 33 lay in the dirt, waiting for their chance to pounce.<br />
<br />
<br />
At the 2:30 PM EST strike time, 9 more zombies broke in. 15 minutes later they lay outside. As we resupplied we realized that search rates for all of our supplies had dropped drastically. Barricades, as always, were constantly being torn down and rebuilt. 41 zombies stood outside the gates, and 21 more lay on the ground.<br />
<br />
<br />
Their server-reset-ish strike time brought in another 9. Soon, it was 18. Then, 22. The most active people started being picked off. While we made our inventory list, we watched the now 25 zombies slowly shamble around and munch on random brainz.<br />
<br />
<br />
It was soon we realized the terrible truth. The huge battle had attracted a horde of The Dead and they were plowing through survivors like no tomorrow. We hoped the meatshield would hold.<br />
<br />
<br />
By 9:00 AM EST, a lot of damage had been done. 42 zombies stood inside, facing only 16 remaining survivors. Nobody on either side was happy that an unexpected horde of [[The Dead]] had ruined what had effectively become a stalemate. Survivors had hoped for a win through attrition; we wanted to make the zombie side give up. We believed we were close. Maybe not. But it’s a prospect that really motivated us, if we could pull it off. A member of the [[RRF]] sent us a message:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Zombie_congrats.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
By that night, 55 zombies were inside, with 13 survivors comprising the last of the meatshield. An hour later, it was 65 vs 11. By 4:00 AM, there were an astounding 71 inside, a frustrating amount of them part of the invading horde of [[The Dead]].<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Si_ruined.png|The end came soon after.]]<br />
<br />
<br />
A survivor, one lone hero, gave the zombies one last message.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Lone_hero.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
To our great sadness, the destruction of the decorations soon followed.<br />
We took stock of what had happened and discussed a lot of strategy regarding setup and many different contingencies. A short after-party was held at [[The Horsey Museum]] in [[Shackleville]], hosted by ZombGG.<br />
<br />
===Conclusion===<br />
The [[Combat Revive]] is now standard operating procedure at Herbert and all our NTs zone-wide. The RRF has never truly let up on assaulting the building, and as of today (6/18/2021) they are breaking in at least daily and make a lot of effort to cut off our supplies. As we adjusted our tactics, so they have adjusted theirs, making their strikes more complex to combat our most active players.<br />
<br />
<br />
If you’re reading this and you’re friendly, come to [[Roftwood]]! It’s one of the most active places in Malton and it’s never boring. Coordinate in-game or on the [https://discord.gg/UJy2UUaaBE Roftwood Discord] to be part of the action!<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:RCC_Logo_2.png|center]]</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Category_talk:Historical_Groups&diff=2420282Category talk:Historical Groups2022-08-25T00:58:30Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Yes */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{TOCleft}}<br />
=Obtaining Historical Status=<br />
A [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy_Discussion/Historical_Groups|policy]] is in place which outlines the method to attain historical status.<br />
{|<br />
|<br />
#Groups must no longer actively contribute to the game.<br />
#A nomination should be made on [[Category talk:Historical Groups]].<br />
#Voting will last for exactly two weeks following nomination. To be successful, a group must be approved by 2/3 of eligible voters to pass. A minimum of 15 votes must be cast for the vote to be valid. The only allowable votes are '''Yes''' and '''No'''.<br />
#Groups that pass will be added to the category as described below.<br />
#Groups must allow a week to pass between nominations.<br />
#Groups must allow 4 months in between when the group disbands and when they can be nominated for Historical Status. (Note: Only for [[Malton]]-based groups)<br />
|}<br />
<br clear=both /><br />
<br />
=Nominations for Historical Status=<br />
When nominating a group, please add a note to [[Template:Wiki News]] and add {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{HistoricalGroupVoting}}</nowiki>}} to the top of the group's page. Also, please add {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{HistoricalVotingRules}}</nowiki>}} under the group's application for historical status.<br />
<br />
=New Nominations=<br />
<br />
==[[East Becktown Defenders]]==<br />
{{HistoricalVotingRules}}<br />
The East Becktown Defenders officially disbanded on [[EBD/Epitaph|May 1st, 2020]], which makes them eligible for Historical Group status.<br />
The EBD had been active since 2016, and included dozens of members, including both veterans and entire newbies. They maintained good relationships with survivor groups (including, but not limited to the DHPD, SoC, Knights Templar and the DEM) and zombie groups (specifically the Daubeney Resident Zombies next door, and of course our favourite frenemies in the RRF).<br />
Aside from regular survivor-style operations, they also brought a fun, no-pressure approach to the game, along with [[East_Becktown_Defenders/Tools|wiki-tools]] (like the automatic SitRep on their group page) and weird events (like the [[EBD_Stat_Party_2016|EBD StatParty]]).<br />
The group decided not to fade away like many others, but officially disbanded after exactly 4 years of activity.<br />
<br />
=== Yes ===<br />
<br />
# '''Yes''' - {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 13:29, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 13:38, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:MicoolTNT|MicoolTNT]] 13:57, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - {{User:Stelar/sig}} 14:00, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:Roddy Winters|Roddy Winters]] ([[User talk:Roddy Winters|talk]]) 17:27, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:Matt Langley|Matt Langley]] ([[User talk:Matt Langley|talk]]) 18:13, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:Tarkenton|Tarkenton]] ([[User talk:Tarkenton|talk]]) 20:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 23:17, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:Simcoe|Simcoe]] 07:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:Yo Ris|Yo Ris]] ([[User talk:Yo Ris|talk]]) 07:33, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:RaiNo|RaiNo]] 10:14, 21 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:Frank Burn|Frank Burn]] ([[User talk:Frank Burn|talk]]) 13:46, 22 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:DoXBr|DoXBr]] ([[User talk:DoXBr|talk]]) 14:19, 23 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - [[User:Richardskull16|Richardskull16]] ([[User talk:Richardskull16|talk]]) 09:25, 24 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
# '''Yes''' - The Malton Globetrotters turbodunk the ayes! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:58, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== No ===<br />
#I was going to go with “Who?” but [[Talk:East_Becktown_Defenders#Your_page|apparently we’ve spoken]]. As they did not fix their page in the entire 4 years they spent as a group, I cannot in good conscience vote for this group to be historical. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} {{Goonsig|Revenant}} 16:13, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
#From what I see is a run-of-the-mill survivor group engaged in standard survivor play of maintaining a particular area. It was not innovative (like MCM or 404 were), it didn't have a distinctive style (like for example B.A.R. or ULC would have), nor was it involved in significant events (like Escape or c4NT were). --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 20:34, 23 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Recent Nominations==<br />
<br />
==[[Malton College of Medicine]]==<br />
{{HistoricalVotingRules}}<br />
MCM has been inactive since November 2018, making them eligible to voted for historical group now. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 21:22, 24 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Yes ===<br />
#'''Yes''' - MCM had a great concept as a learning institution for new players that hasn't been there before, and never been copied after. A very widely respected group across the entire spectrum of play-styles, from survivors to zombies to PKers. Definitively one of the most remarkable groups in UD history, and definitively worthy of historical status. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 21:22, 24 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 02:12, 25 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' -- [[file:SomethingSomething.gif|link=http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/User:Jack's_Inflamed_Sense_Of_Rejection]] 14:21, 25 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' --{{User:Armpit_Odor/dnsig}} 19:12, 25 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' {{User:Revenant/Sig}} {{Goonsig|Revenant}} 05:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' - Even though they revoked my ZhD degree. Bastards. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:09, 26 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' --[[User:Grimeynick|Grimeynick]] ([[User talk:Grimeynick|talk]]) 16:15, 26 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' --[[User:KingJabbaDaButt|KingJabbaDaButt]] ([[User talk:KingJabbaDaButt|talk]]) 15:34, 29 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yip''' What killed them off? --[[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 22:46, 31 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Of course''' [[User:Hate Crime|Hate Crime 🎭]] ([[User talk:Hate Crime|talk]]) 20:42, 2 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''yES''' [[User:Hajen|hajen]] ([[User talk:Hajen|talk]]) 20:45, 2 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Oui'''[[User:I&#39;m all riggered up|I&#39;m all riggered up]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m all riggered up|talk]]) 21:08, 2 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' (Ross, if you want to know, DM me on discord) {{User:Stelar/sig}} 21:10, 2 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' [[User:Richardskull16|Richardskull16]] ([[User talk:Richardskull16|talk]]) 22:49, 2 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''', seeing as the Trotters dunked so hard that MCM died. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 03:45, 3 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''', obviously {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 05:46, 3 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes'''--[[User:Akbar|Akbar]] ([[User talk:Akbar|talk]]) 20:17, 3 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
#'''Yes''' - I consider them a far better version of Quartly Study Group and have fond memories of murdering Violet Begonia. Worthy candidates. --[[User:LordMoloch|LordMoloch]] ([[User talk:LordMoloch|talk]]) 17:12, 8 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== No ===<br />
#I'm just here for my [[+1]]. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:29, 27 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
With 18 votes '''for''' and 1 '''against''', Malton College of Medicine is now officially a '''historical group'''. Congratulations. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:54, 8 April 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=Previous Discussions=<br />
There are 3 archives for this page.<br />
==General Discussion==<br />
{{ArchiveNoticeSmall|ArchiveName=Archive}}<br />
==Voting Succeeded==<br />
{{ArchiveNoticeSmall|ArchiveName=SucceededArchive}}<br />
==Voting Failed==<br />
{{ArchiveNoticeSmall|ArchiveName=FailedArchive}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Dunell_Hills&diff=2419800User:DangerReport/Dunell Hills2022-06-15T03:34:42Z<p>Dragonshardz: scouting shows burb fully ruined and no breathers sullying the peace</p>
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}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{DangerMapInstructions}}</noinclude></div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Dunell_Hills&diff=2419781User:DangerReport/Dunell Hills2022-06-06T17:24:00Z<p>Dragonshardz: lol you wish this place was safe</p>
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<div><includeonly>{{{{{template|DangerMapFormat}}}<br />
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}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{DangerMapInstructions}}</noinclude></div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2418309UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2022-02-21T07:06:44Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* User:Kim Jung Undead */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
<br />
=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
<br />
==December==<br />
===[[User:Meathshield 1]]===<br />
{{v|Meathshield 1|Vandalism|Banned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Meatshielders&curid=195079&diff=2416779&oldid=2416251 Similar MO] to the wild wild etc crazy, though used a proxy. Banned. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 14:48, 1 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==October==<br />
===[[User:Kim Jung Undead]]===<br />
{{v|Kim Jung Undead}}<br />
<br />
Noting that KJU's IP address is shared by two other users previously searched in the checkuser log, including [[User:Dragnshardz]], who has been permabanned. <br />
<br />
Either we ban KJU as a vandal alt, consider them a "main" and warn them for the Dragonshardz impersonation, or, if we believe and honour their claim that they're JISOR, we associate the vandalism with JISOR/Audioattack's account and go from there. Or we do something else. Happy to have a chat over what the other sysops think. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Have any of these accounts been warned or otherwise notified about using multiple accounts to vandalize / circumvent bans? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, yes, JISOR/Audioattack has in the past, but not for this specific Dragnshardz vandalism which is what I assume you mean. Here's how it is right now: Kim Jung Undead has the same IP to 3ER account Dragnshardz, whose banning did not incur any warning for the perpetrator as we didn't know who made Dragnshardz at the time. Kim Jung Undead is claiming, on undeletions, and without hard evidence, that they are also JISOR, who is on A/VD under their original account Audioattack ([[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Data#User:Audioattack]]). JISOR has a history of making throwaway accounts excessively so if these were all the same person I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no hard proof from the IP history.<br />
::So what we do here depends on who you think should be considered the 'main' in all this. Someone needs a warning for the original vandalism with a 3ER alt. Do we accept KJU is Audioattack without the proof and ban them all accordingly? Or do we warn KJU as the main because we don't know with certainty that they are Audioattack? That's kinda where I'm at with this. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::I wouldn't accept that KJU is JISOR/Audioattack without the IP link, so just warn KJU on using Dragnshardz for vandalism? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::As the party affected by the attempted impersonation, warning KJU for the attempt seems just and reasonable, especially since there's no direct proof they're JISOR/Audioattack. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:43, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADragonshardz&diff=2416218&oldid=2416203 This edit] seems to back up that KJU is the same person that tried to impersonate me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
I found all the old edits on the JISOR account, among others - From what I understand you can only link my to myself via IP, so regardless of how you want to warn or ban or bake a cake I will just proxy a new account and go from there :) Thanks anyhow though! [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 17:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey doofuses, did you forget to do anything with this report for months? C'mon. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Lol... I probably should have explained myself there. I made the next set of expected accounts to park and idle them. Hopefully it will break the cycle of stupidity. I dunno. It's just so crazy it might work..... right? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's just this technically makes you a vandal alt creator on five counts. So, 2 warnings, 24 hour ban, a 48 hour ban, and a week = I should ban you for 10 days. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::My babies did no such vandalising. They were innocent when you smote them down! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like the same person to me. Any other sysops want to weigh in on a perma on the main account? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Fine by me. As close to a 3-edit vandal as can be, without 100% being one. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: This probably him again. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Lactose. Judging by the edit to meatshielders. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::AHLG, what's your take on this? Same crap, slightly changed MO (annoying the dead by playing dumb rather than outright vandalising) and the IP addresses are very similar to the other ones from Wild Crazy yet not the same (checkuser IP logs have them if you want to look). Are you happy to lump Lactose with Wild Crazy? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The IPs have all switched around slightly between each alt. I've been banning them based on the similar behaviour, the similarities in the IPs and the fact that they all come from location "X". I would ban Lactose and move up to a third month ban on Wild Crazy (currently just on a 1 month). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:30, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Do it. That triggers a perma vote anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Done! --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[User:A Small Doughnut|Add this one]]. Main account escalated. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
<br />
TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==March==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2418308UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2022-02-21T07:04:32Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* User:Kim Jung Undead */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
<br />
=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
<br />
==December==<br />
===[[User:Meathshield 1]]===<br />
{{v|Meathshield 1|Vandalism|Banned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Meatshielders&curid=195079&diff=2416779&oldid=2416251 Similar MO] to the wild wild etc crazy, though used a proxy. Banned. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 14:48, 1 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==October==<br />
===[[User:Kim Jung Undead]]===<br />
{{v|Kim Jung Undead}}<br />
<br />
Noting that KJU's IP address is shared by two other users previously searched in the checkuser log, including [[User:Dragnshardz]], who has been permabanned. <br />
<br />
Either we ban KJU as a vandal alt, consider them a "main" and warn them for the Dragonshardz impersonation, or, if we believe and honour their claim that they're JISOR, we associate the vandalism with JISOR/Audioattack's account and go from there. Or we do something else. Happy to have a chat over what the other sysops think. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Have any of these accounts been warned or otherwise notified about using multiple accounts to vandalize / circumvent bans? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, yes, JISOR/Audioattack has in the past, but not for this specific Dragnshardz vandalism which is what I assume you mean. Here's how it is right now: Kim Jung Undead has the same IP to 3ER account Dragnshardz, whose banning did not incur any warning for the perpetrator as we didn't know who made Dragnshardz at the time. Kim Jung Undead is claiming, on undeletions, and without hard evidence, that they are also JISOR, who is on A/VD under their original account Audioattack ([[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Data#User:Audioattack]]). JISOR has a history of making throwaway accounts excessively so if these were all the same person I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no hard proof from the IP history.<br />
::So what we do here depends on who you think should be considered the 'main' in all this. Someone needs a warning for the original vandalism with a 3ER alt. Do we accept KJU is Audioattack without the proof and ban them all accordingly? Or do we warn KJU as the main because we don't know with certainty that they are Audioattack? That's kinda where I'm at with this. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::I wouldn't accept that KJU is JISOR/Audioattack without the IP link, so just warn KJU on using Dragnshardz for vandalism? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::As the party affected by the attempted impersonation, warning KJU for the attempt seems just and reasonable, especially since there's no direct proof they're JISOR/Audioattack. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:43, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADragonshardz&diff=2416218&oldid=2416203 This edit] seems to back up that KJU is the same person that tried to impersonate me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
I found all the old edits on the JISOR account, among others - From what I understand you can only link my to myself via IP, so regardless of how you want to warn or ban or bake a cake I will just proxy a new account and go from there :) Thanks anyhow though! [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 17:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Hey doofuses, did you forget to do anything with this report for months? C'mon. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:04, 21 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Lol... I probably should have explained myself there. I made the next set of expected accounts to park and idle them. Hopefully it will break the cycle of stupidity. I dunno. It's just so crazy it might work..... right? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's just this technically makes you a vandal alt creator on five counts. So, 2 warnings, 24 hour ban, a 48 hour ban, and a week = I should ban you for 10 days. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::My babies did no such vandalising. They were innocent when you smote them down! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like the same person to me. Any other sysops want to weigh in on a perma on the main account? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Fine by me. As close to a 3-edit vandal as can be, without 100% being one. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: This probably him again. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Lactose. Judging by the edit to meatshielders. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::AHLG, what's your take on this? Same crap, slightly changed MO (annoying the dead by playing dumb rather than outright vandalising) and the IP addresses are very similar to the other ones from Wild Crazy yet not the same (checkuser IP logs have them if you want to look). Are you happy to lump Lactose with Wild Crazy? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The IPs have all switched around slightly between each alt. I've been banning them based on the similar behaviour, the similarities in the IPs and the fact that they all come from location "X". I would ban Lactose and move up to a third month ban on Wild Crazy (currently just on a 1 month). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:30, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Do it. That triggers a perma vote anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Done! --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
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[[User:A Small Doughnut|Add this one]]. Main account escalated. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
<br />
TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==March==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat_Promotions&diff=2417030UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat Promotions2021-12-31T00:28:41Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Election Space */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{BPIntro}}<br />
=Election Space=<br />
Voting for the December-June term begins on '''01:02, 22 December 2021 (UTC)''' and will end two weeks from that date.<br />
<br />
==Eligible Candidates==<br />
===A Helpful Little Gnome===<br />
{{bid|A Helpful Little Gnome|RE}}<br />
#. Most recent bans have been by gnome. I for one support reckless and frequent banning. Ban them all, gnome! --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 17:35, 23 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 04:39, 25 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
#Gnome is still around and paying attention. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 13:03, 26 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:28, 31 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===DanceDanceRevolution===<br />
{{bid|DanceDanceRevolution|RE}}<br />
#[[User:Bison Dele|Bison Dele]] ([[User talk:Bison Dele|talk]]) 18:39, 22 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
# DDR making completely pointless edits to a withdrawn candidate. That's the pedantic kinda shit that built this wiki. Plus DDR been playing since 1983, so gotta love the dedication. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 30 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:28, 31 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Stelar===<br />
{{bid|Stelar|RE}}<br />
#[[User:Bison Dele|Bison Dele]] ([[User talk:Bison Dele|talk]]) 18:41, 22 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
#A vote for stelar is a vote for stelar bureaucrazy. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 23:08, 22 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 04:39, 25 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Withdrawn Candidates==<br />
===Rosslessness===<br />
{{bid|Rosslessness|RE}}<br />
Oh god withdraw me --[[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 08:54, 22 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
#Voting for Ross while he is still not withdrawn. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 23:08, 22 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
#:As his name appears in the candidate section I vote for spiderzed. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 17:40, 23 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
#Very dedicated. We can trade a vote for a ban! [[User:Jack's_Complete_Lack_of_Surprise|<span style="color: red">Super Sausages</span>]] 12:18, 25 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archived Bureaucrat Promotions==<br />
''For earlier bureaucrat promotions, see the following:''<br />
*[[:Category:{{CURRENTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|This year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[:Category:{{LASTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|Last year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[A/SA|Sysop Archives]] for other related activities<br />
<br />
{{CratPromoArchive}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=2416255User talk:Dragonshardz2021-11-08T07:45:30Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Resulting from A/VB case */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Talk:The_Dead_(First_Generation)}}<br />
==SCROLL DOWN FURTHER!==<br />
{{Talk:The_Dead}}<br />
<br />
==Resulting from A/VB case==<br />
I've closed the case as not vandalism. I do however consider it important that there are no impediments to you being contactable. Please stop putting redirects onto your talk page, it If you continue to do so you may be submitted for vandalism again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yassuh massa sysop. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Cheers. Also, put a colon at the start of the page, so it's <nowiki>{{:The_Dead/Original_Talk_Page}} and<br />
{{:The_Dead/Talk_Archive2}}</nowiki> and it'll work I think. For some reason the code is different for main and talk pages. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 07:05, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::First; ayy lmao I made someone super mad enough they'd try to make an impersonation alt. Two, it's probably because without the colon the wiki looks for stuff in the 'Template' namespace instead of the 'Main' namespace. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Ah that makes so much sense. Also, yeah, wow... Actual effort went into that.... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:49, 29 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::: I totally agree. {{unsigned|Kim Jung Undead}}<br />
<br />
==HARK THE HERALD MORON SINGS==<br />
hello<br />
<br />
it's me<br />
<br />
helllooo<br />
{{unsigned|Kim Jung Undead}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2416254UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2021-11-08T07:44:57Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* User:Kim Jung Undead */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
<br />
=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
<br />
==October==<br />
===[[User:Kim Jung Undead]]===<br />
{{v|Kim Jung Undead}}<br />
<br />
Noting that KJU's IP address is shared by two other users previously searched in the checkuser log, including [[User:Dragnshardz]], who has been permabanned. <br />
<br />
Either we ban KJU as a vandal alt, consider them a "main" and warn them for the Dragonshardz impersonation, or, if we believe and honour their claim that they're JISOR, we associate the vandalism with JISOR/Audioattack's account and go from there. Or we do something else. Happy to have a chat over what the other sysops think. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Have any of these accounts been warned or otherwise notified about using multiple accounts to vandalize / circumvent bans? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, yes, JISOR/Audioattack has in the past, but not for this specific Dragnshardz vandalism which is what I assume you mean. Here's how it is right now: Kim Jung Undead has the same IP to 3ER account Dragnshardz, whose banning did not incur any warning for the perpetrator as we didn't know who made Dragnshardz at the time. Kim Jung Undead is claiming, on undeletions, and without hard evidence, that they are also JISOR, who is on A/VD under their original account Audioattack ([[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Data#User:Audioattack]]). JISOR has a history of making throwaway accounts excessively so if these were all the same person I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no hard proof from the IP history.<br />
::So what we do here depends on who you think should be considered the 'main' in all this. Someone needs a warning for the original vandalism with a 3ER alt. Do we accept KJU is Audioattack without the proof and ban them all accordingly? Or do we warn KJU as the main because we don't know with certainty that they are Audioattack? That's kinda where I'm at with this. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::I wouldn't accept that KJU is JISOR/Audioattack without the IP link, so just warn KJU on using Dragnshardz for vandalism? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::As the party affected by the attempted impersonation, warning KJU for the attempt seems just and reasonable, especially since there's no direct proof they're JISOR/Audioattack. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:43, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADragonshardz&diff=2416218&oldid=2416203 This edit] seems to back up that KJU is the same person that tried to impersonate me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Lol... I probably should have explained myself there. I made the next set of expected accounts to park and idle them. Hopefully it will break the cycle of stupidity. I dunno. It's just so crazy it might work..... right? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's just this technically makes you a vandal alt creator on five counts. So, 2 warnings, 24 hour ban, a 48 hour ban, and a week = I should ban you for 10 days. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::My babies did no such vandalising. They were innocent when you smote them down! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like the same person to me. Any other sysops want to weigh in on a perma on the main account? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Fine by me. As close to a 3-edit vandal as can be, without 100% being one. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: This probably him again. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Lactose. Judging by the edit to meatshielders. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::AHLG, what's your take on this? Same crap, slightly changed MO (annoying the dead by playing dumb rather than outright vandalising) and the IP addresses are very similar to the other ones from Wild Crazy yet not the same (checkuser IP logs have them if you want to look). Are you happy to lump Lactose with Wild Crazy? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The IPs have all switched around slightly between each alt. I've been banning them based on the similar behaviour, the similarities in the IPs and the fact that they all come from location "X". I would ban Lactose and move up to a third month ban on Wild Crazy (currently just on a 1 month). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:30, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Do it. That triggers a perma vote anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Done! --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
<br />
TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==March==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2416253UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2021-11-08T07:43:37Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* User:Kim Jung Undead */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
<br />
=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
<br />
==October==<br />
===[[User:Kim Jung Undead]]===<br />
{{v|Kim Jung Undead}}<br />
<br />
Noting that KJU's IP address is shared by two other users previously searched in the checkuser log, including [[User:Dragnshardz]], who has been permabanned. <br />
<br />
Either we ban KJU as a vandal alt, consider them a "main" and warn them for the Dragonshardz impersonation, or, if we believe and honour their claim that they're JISOR, we associate the vandalism with JISOR/Audioattack's account and go from there. Or we do something else. Happy to have a chat over what the other sysops think. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Have any of these accounts been warned or otherwise notified about using multiple accounts to vandalize / circumvent bans? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, yes, JISOR/Audioattack has in the past, but not for this specific Dragnshardz vandalism which is what I assume you mean. Here's how it is right now: Kim Jung Undead has the same IP to 3ER account Dragnshardz, whose banning did not incur any warning for the perpetrator as we didn't know who made Dragnshardz at the time. Kim Jung Undead is claiming, on undeletions, and without hard evidence, that they are also JISOR, who is on A/VD under their original account Audioattack ([[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Data#User:Audioattack]]). JISOR has a history of making throwaway accounts excessively so if these were all the same person I wouldn't be surprised, but there's no hard proof from the IP history.<br />
::So what we do here depends on who you think should be considered the 'main' in all this. Someone needs a warning for the original vandalism with a 3ER alt. Do we accept KJU is Audioattack without the proof and ban them all accordingly? Or do we warn KJU as the main because we don't know with certainty that they are Audioattack? That's kinda where I'm at with this. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::I wouldn't accept that KJU is JISOR/Audioattack without the IP link, so just warn KJU on using Dragnshardz for vandalism? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:11, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::As the party affected by the attempted impersonation, warning KJU for the attempt seems just and reasonable, especially since there's no direct proof they're JISOR/Audioattack. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 07:43, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Lol... I probably should have explained myself there. I made the next set of expected accounts to park and idle them. Hopefully it will break the cycle of stupidity. I dunno. It's just so crazy it might work..... right? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 21:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's just this technically makes you a vandal alt creator on five counts. So, 2 warnings, 24 hour ban, a 48 hour ban, and a week = I should ban you for 10 days. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::My babies did no such vandalising. They were innocent when you smote them down! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like the same person to me. Any other sysops want to weigh in on a perma on the main account? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Fine by me. As close to a 3-edit vandal as can be, without 100% being one. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:33, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: This probably him again. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Lactose. Judging by the edit to meatshielders. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 13:06, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::AHLG, what's your take on this? Same crap, slightly changed MO (annoying the dead by playing dumb rather than outright vandalising) and the IP addresses are very similar to the other ones from Wild Crazy yet not the same (checkuser IP logs have them if you want to look). Are you happy to lump Lactose with Wild Crazy? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:38, 7 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The IPs have all switched around slightly between each alt. I've been banning them based on the similar behaviour, the similarities in the IPs and the fact that they all come from location "X". I would ban Lactose and move up to a third month ban on Wild Crazy (currently just on a 1 month). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:30, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Do it. That triggers a perma vote anyway. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 01:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Done! --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:18, 8 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
<br />
TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==March==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
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'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
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Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
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And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
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Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2416204UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2021-11-05T20:04:43Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* User:Wild wild crazy */</p>
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<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
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=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
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==October==<br />
===[[User:Wild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|Vandalism|Warned}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I have warned them. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:30, 28 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::This is probably them again http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy. Vandalized The Globetrotters. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 16:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Looked like it to me. Blocked and warned the original user. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
Some more vandalism to [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Malton_Globetrotters&diff=prev&oldid=2415915 the Malton Globetrotters] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=prev&oldid=2415916 the Dead]. I've filed this all under [[User:Wild Crazy]] as this seems to be the oldest "Wild Crazy" .--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:08, 2 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy|You will never guess the contrib history of 4x Wild Crazy]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 17:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Blocked accordingly. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::How are we not already at perma? http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Wild_Crazy --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 23:40, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Because there are no gods. No masters. [[User:Kim Jung Undead|Kim Jung Undead]] ([[User talk:Kim Jung Undead|talk]]) 23:44, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It's getting there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:22, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
See [[User:Crazy Wild]], blocked. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Several more alt accounts have been created. Technically, we need a perma ban vote with 2/3 sysops to agree to perma ban the main account, unless the main account accrues 12 months worth of bans. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Unless this was you DDR, and I need to ban you? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Eh, or the vandal got on a boat and sailed away... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:09, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: I support permaban of DDR. --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 15:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
Not vandalism but possible ban evasion. <br />
Wild crazy made the zerg group page. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/A_Meatshielder --<sub>[[User:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 18:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Wow. Just....wow. If I had a nickel for every time someone got this insanely butthurt, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
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'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
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TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
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==March==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=2416203User talk:Dragonshardz2021-11-05T19:55:27Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Talk:The_Dead_(First_Generation)}}<br />
==SCROLL DOWN FURTHER!==<br />
{{Talk:The_Dead}}<br />
<br />
==Resulting from A/VB case==<br />
I've closed the case as not vandalism. I do however consider it important that there are no impediments to you being contactable. Please stop putting redirects onto your talk page, it If you continue to do so you may be submitted for vandalism again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yassuh massa sysop. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Cheers. Also, put a colon at the start of the page, so it's <nowiki>{{:The_Dead/Original_Talk_Page}} and<br />
{{:The_Dead/Talk_Archive2}}</nowiki> and it'll work I think. For some reason the code is different for main and talk pages. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 07:05, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::First; ayy lmao I made someone super mad enough they'd try to make an impersonation alt. Two, it's probably because without the colon the wiki looks for stuff in the 'Template' namespace instead of the 'Main' namespace. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Ah that makes so much sense. Also, yeah, wow... Actual effort went into that.... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:49, 29 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==HARK THE HERALD MORON SINGS==<br />
hello<br />
<br />
it's me<br />
<br />
helllooo<br />
{{unsigned|Kim Jung Undead}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2415706UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2021-10-27T04:32:20Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* October */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
<br />
=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
<br />
==October==<br />
===[[UserWild wild crazy]]===<br />
{{v|Wild wild crazy|None yet|None}}<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Dead&diff=2415542&oldid=2415541 Vandalized] [[The Dead]]. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Clayton Carmine]]===<br />
{{v|Clayton Carmine|None yet|None}}<br />
<br />
Continues to make unsubstantiated edits to [[User:DangerReport/Darvall Heights]]<br />
<br>If you look at the history, he even did a same day revert of Bob's changes<br />
<br>http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3ADangerReport%2FDarvall_Heights&diff=2406996&oldid=2406921<br />
<br>Clearly he is just being a sore loser and making bad faith edits as a poor attempt to troll.<br />
<br>I mean at least wait a day or two for the situation on the ground to actually change before just auto stomping reasonable intel updates. {{unsigned|ZPatriot|21:53, 12 October 2021}}<br />
:I'm not yet demoted but going to refrain from ruling. That said, I wanted to drop in and reiterate [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2018#User:Dragonshardz|what I've said before]], which is that "the suburb danger statuses are the part of the wiki most designed to be corrected/adjusted with extreme frequency by interested users. In addition, the boundaries of what constitutes what status are vague and arguable on purpose. I doubt I'd ever accept an A/VB case based on a danger status dispute, unless it's a user clearly lying and manipulating the status in order to e.g. lure players or alter their behavior." {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::That is literally what's happening. Its in Clayton's interest to have the suburb look like an active combat zone to attract people there. They are not making changes based on an actual evaluation of the status on the ground, it's a knee jerk reaction to my modification. They are simply using the wiki as a combative tool, showing their preferred status. The situation on the ground in Darvall is no different then any of the other ghost suburbs. These edits are in bad faith, 100% [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 06:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Isn't what is happening at all so please don't put words in my mouth. Apologies for not taking your word on the state of Darvall Heights when all you had to add was "appears abandoned" as your reasonable intel update, yet we have survivors in the area and zombies sleeping in ruins around the suburb. Since this is such a sticky subject for you I'll give it a day before updating changes made to Darvall Heights Danger Report, even though the situation on the ground could change in a shorter span of time. [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 00:03, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::All I ask is that you take the time to evaluate the situation before making the change. There had been little to no activity in the area for a couple days and I did a scout around and everything was still trashed, no humans to be found, and most of our people had gotten board and wandered outward. I literally said "The Heights appear abandoned for the moment." in my summary. Since you didn't bother to put any comments on your changes, all we are left with is projection, so not sure how you can expect anything other then that to occur. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 09:43, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
This is a better fit for [[A/A]]. As I can't verify what's actually happening in this suburb, I can't say if anyone is fabricating the danger level. I'd recommend providing evidence when updating the level, or relying on the external military reports as they are more neutral. Otherwise, the edit warring will go nowhere. '''NV'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:51, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - But it's closer to vandalism than it should be. Normally we don't rule on this kind of stuff at all because it's not the sysop's job to rule on grey areas created by interpreting the danger zones, but having quickly scouted Darvall, I would say there's essentially nothing that should classify it as Very Dangerous, let alone fighting someone in an edit war to keep it that way. That is unless the suburb went from "zombie-infested and/or massive hostile zombie mobs" to "devoid of significant survivor or zombie populations" in the two days between the edit dispute and my inspection. It's possible I guess. I'm also concerned by Clayton's reverting of Bob's report that was ''sourced by the EMRP'' and should be the most neutral and technically correct status at the time.<br />
<br />
TLDR; It's not fair to assume every one of Clayton's reverts in the past were based on a bad faith interpretations of Extremely Dangerous, especially since not all of them were to change the status to Extremely Dangerous anyway. I think that kind of history would be required to call this behaviour vandalism. But it definitely felt closer to bad-faith than the typical dispute. I think if the status isn't clear cut, your idea of waiting a little longer before changing it may be good Clayton. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 06:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==March==<br />
===[[User:Fistbump Jackson]]===<br />
{{v|Fistbump Jackson|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Well I guess we're seeing how this plays out. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2412307&oldid=2412140 Has redirected his talk page to a category page] despite the notice provided after the discussion below. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 12:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Well if you want to pull the trigger, go ahead, but I won't look. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:49, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I was warned against redirecting to groups and users. Not categories. Check the history. Furthermore, I asked to be pointed to a specific rule or any kind of precedent and received none. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 20:54, 10 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:If the rule and/or precedent is “hi I’m DDR/Bob Moncrief and I rule by fiat” then cool but I’d like you to at least say that. [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]])|<br />
::Based on the below case, most active sysops made clear their position was that any redirect of a user talk page produces an unreasonable barrier to contacting that user. <s>'''Vandalism.'''</s> ''revised, see below'' {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::well good job linking me to the discussion! i didn’t know this page, or that discussion, even existed until yesterday [[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 13:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Are you planning to redirect your talk page again? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::It seems based on subsequent edits like FJ is planning not to do so again. I'm happy to revise to '''not vandalism''' with '''soft warning''' already served. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:59, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Easy. Concluded as '''Not Vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 02:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
<br />
Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
<br />
I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Protections&diff=2415705UDWiki:Administration/Protections2021-10-27T04:28:46Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Protection Queue */</p>
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<div><div style="position: absolute; width:180px; height:75px; z-index:3; left: -220px; top: -95px; visibility: visible">[[Template:A/PTsub]]</div>{{Shortcut|[[A/PT]]}}<br />
{{Administrationnav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
<br />
This page is for the request of page protection within the Urban Dead wiki. Due to philosophical concerns, the ability to protect pages is restricted to system operators. As such, regular users will need to request a protection from the system operators. For consistency and accountability, system operators also adhere to the guidelines listed here.<br />
<br />
==Guidelines for Protection Requests==<br />
<br />
All Protection Requests '''must''' contain the following information in order to be considered:<br />
<br />
* '''A link to the page in question.''' Preferably bolded for visibility.<br />
* '''A reason for protection.''' This should be short and to the point.<br />
* '''A signed datestamp.''' This can be easily done by adding ~~<nowiki>~~</nowiki> to the end of your request.<br />
<br />
Any protection request that does not contain these three pieces of information will not be considered, and will be removed by a system operator.<br />
<br />
Once the protection request has been entered, the request shall remain on this page, where it will be reviewed by a member of the Sysop team, and action taken accordingly. Once action has been taken, the system operator will add a comment including a signed datestamp detailing his course of action, and the request will be moved into the '''Recent Actions''' queue, where it will remain for one week. After that week is up, it may be moved to the archive (see navigation box below). If the Protection has been granted, the system operator should place the tag {{tl|protect}} on the page(s) that have been protected.<br />
<br />
In the event of a system operator requesting a Protection, all the previous points will apply, excepting that a system operator other than the requestor shall review and take action on the request.<br />
<br />
Pages in the Protection Queue may already be scheduled protections. For a list of scheduled protections, see [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#Scheduled_Protections|here]]. To submit a new scheduled protection, please visit [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/Scheduling|here]].<br />
<br />
==Protection Queue==<br />
<!--<br />
''Place pages requiring protection here.''<br />
--><br />
===[[The Dead]]===<br />
Shouldn't this [[The_Dead]] page be locked? Let The Dead rest.--[[Image:Globetrotters_Icon.png|15px]] '''[[User:DCC/Suggestions|#99]]''' <sup>''[[User:DCC|DCC]] ''</sup> 01:36, 26 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It should be. Looks like I originally protected it in 2008, and then moved the page in 2018, which also moved the protection. Sorry about that; I've put the protection back up. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:38, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::You were always one of the good ones.--[[Image:Globetrotters_Icon.png|15px]] '''[[User:DCC/Suggestions|#99]]''' <sup>''[[User:DCC|DCC]] ''</sup> 00:39, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was left unlocked since 2018 since, y'know, The Dead aren't and we wanted to be able to edit the page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:28, 27 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Requested Edits==<br />
<!--<br />
''Place protected pages requiring edits here.''<br />
--><br />
<br />
''Place protected pages requiring edits here.''<br />
<br />
==Recent Actions==<br />
<!--<br />
''There are no recent actions to report.''<br />
--><br />
<br />
''There are no recent actions to report.''<br />
<br />
<!-- Don't remove below this line! --><br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{ProtectionsArchiveNavigation}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:DangerReport/Reganbank&diff=2415356User:DangerReport/Reganbank2021-10-20T18:58:09Z<p>Dragonshardz: pretty dead out here, chief</p>
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<div><includeonly>{{{{{template|DangerMapFormat}}}<br />
|Notoriety=normal<br />
<!--Do not edit above this line!--><br />
<br />
|Danger=a ghost town<br />
<br />
<!--Do not edit below this line!--><br />
}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{DangerMapInstructions}}</noinclude></div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Dunell_Hills&diff=2415191Dunell Hills2021-10-16T03:11:39Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* left|22pxRecent News */</p>
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<div>{{Suburb| <br />
snX= 1 | <br />
snY= 4 |<br />
suburb_number = 31 |<br />
<br />
Suburb_MiniMap = |<br />
mast_coordinates = Ostrehan Towers |<br />
<br />
NW_suburb= Border |<br />
N_suburb= Peddlesden Village |<br />
NE_suburb= Chudleyton |<br />
<br />
W_suburb = Border |<br />
E_suburb = West Becktown |<br />
<br />
SW_suburb= Border |<br />
S_suburb = Owsleybank |<br />
SE_suburb = Molebank |<br />
<br />
suburb_groups = <br />
{{Dunell Hills Groups}}<br />
|<br />
Police = 3 |<br />
Fire = 2 |<br />
Hospitals = 6 |<br />
NTs = 1 |<br />
Malls = |<br />
Other = Schools 2, Monuments 3, Museums 2<br />
}}<br />
{{NPOV}}<br />
<br />
'''Dunell Hills''' is a [[suburb]] of [[Malton]] built by wealthy Malton business leaders between 1880 and 1920, located in the west of the city. The district is listed in the National Register of Historic Places. It is also listed in the Undead Public Records of Commerce and Business. Copies can be found in the back of the Dury Building.<br />
{{AltRadioFreq|suburb=Dunell Hills|stationlist=<b>Freq: 26.01: North-West Malton</b><br/>Freq: 26.60: [[DHPD|Dunell Hills Police Department]] Radio<br/>}}<br />
<br />
Resting on the very outskirts of Malton, the Hills was a small community that had generally kept to itself. The suburb supported several clinics and research hospitals and as such had a brisk medical trade in the area.<br />
<br />
The suburb contains only one NecroTech facility: [[the Dury Building]]. It does, however, boast an impressive 6 hospitals, as well as 3 police stations, 3 factories and an Auto Shop. Dunell Hills is also home to historical site [[Club Meade]] -- one of the more famous [[RP]] bars in Malton -- when the suburb is not in zombie hands. <br />
<br />
Hometown to the [[Dunell Hills Police Department]], "the Hills" are also infamous as the birthplace of mega horde [[The Dead]] and site of bitter rivalry between the two that has destroyed much of the town's infrastructure and former reputation as a safezone for survivors.<br />
<br />
==Resource Buildings==<br />
{{TRP List<br />
|NTs=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/The Dury Building (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
|Hospitals=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Brendan General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Catherine General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Lucius General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/St. Justin's Hospital|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Stephen General Hospital|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Zephyrinus General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|template=TRP Status}}<br />
|PDs=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Broadbelt Grove Police Department|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Cotty Street Police Department|template=TRP Status}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Yea Drive Police Department|template=TRP Status}}<br />
|Factories=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Factory 2,33|template=TRP Status Factory}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Factory 4,37|template=TRP Status Factory}}<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Factory 9,38|template=TRP Status Factory}}<br />
|ARSs=<br />
{{User:DangerReport/Billet Auto Repair|template=TRP Status}}<br />
|Malls=<br />
*None<br />
|Boards=<br />
*[[Bigg Boulevard]] (3,32)<br />
*[[Coffins Drive]] (0,35)<br />
*[[Gould Walk]] (0,34)<br />
*[[Leader Drive]] (7,39)<br />
*[[Molesworth Road]] (5,37)<br />
*[[Ritchie Boulevard]] (4,39)<br />
|RPs=<br />
*[[Cemetery]] (8,38)<br />
*[[Hilborn Walk]] (7,33)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaInfo.jpg|left|22px]]{{PAGENAME}} Information Resources==<br />
[[Image:AquaInfo.jpg|left|75px]]The [[Building Information Center/{{PAGENAME}}|{{PAGENAME}} Building Information Center]] contains status reports and updates on key buildings in the suburb.<br />
<br />
View zombie activity and locations in {{PAGENAME}} from [[EMRP:_{{PAGENAME}}|External Military Reports]] and [[NecroWatch/A_to_D#Dunell Hills|NecroWatch]]. <!-- WATCH OUT: reference to left can't contain PAGENAME! --><br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaReviv.jpg|left|22px]]Revive Requests==<br />
At least one survivor group advertises a revive request queue for this suburb.<br />
<br><br />
<br />
[http://dhpdforums.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=302 DHPD Queue] - Status: Dangerous (By Request Only)<br />
<br />
{{Revivification Requests}}<br />
<br />
==A Brief History of Dunell Hills After the Outbreak==<br />
Dunell Hills, a small quiet community that had always kept to itself, rests on the very outskirts of Malton. It was during a town meeting at [[Godsland Street School]] that the quarantine of the area was instituted and as such the local population could not organize themselves before they were practically decimated by various waves of zombies that swept through the suburb.<br />
<br />
After the initial chaos and bloody slaughter a group calling itself the [[Dunell Hills Police Department]], after the city's pre-outbreak police force and formed from remnants of emergency services, military, and survivor militia, established this suburb as the heart of the [[DMZ|Dunell Military Zone]], in what eventually became a six borough region which they have pledged to patrol and defend.<br />
<br />
Since the Fall of Caiger Mall, Dunell Hills has often been a very dangerous suburb, at certain points completely devoid of life. This was initially caused when many of the zombies drawn to Caiger Mall chose to remain in the region; since then local survivors have been under almost constant siege -- including fierce battles with [[Extinction]] in 2007 and the arrival en masse of [[The Dead]] in 2008, the latter having vowed never to permit survivors to reside in Dunell Hills again.<br />
<br />
[[The Dead|The Dead]], in fact, succeeded in making Dunell Hills a wasteland from November 2007 to September 2008. Although there were several concerted attempts by different survivor groups to retake the suburb during this time, none of these incursions met with more than transitory and limited success. At the end of this period, repair costs averaged around 50 AP, with some buildings in the high 90s. However, the latter half of September 2008 saw the DHPD, the Crimson Clan, the Malton Rangers and other survivors move back into "the Hills", establishing a stable survivor "beachhead" for the first time in over a year. The Dead returned in mid-October and the two sides engaged in a bloody battle which resulted in the [[Dunell Hills Police Department]] being pushed out of the suburb by November 2008; the area was subsequently placed into a state of ruin once again; ever since that period the suburb has continued to change hands on an almost constant basis.<br />
<br />
The current state of Dunell Hills is often in flux, and may always be -- with victories large and small for both sides, and the major local groups continuing to make Dunell Hills a constant and sometimes violent battleground. Most recently, a resurgence in the numbers of [[The Dead]] has resulted in the apparent collapse of the DHPD and the abandonment of the suburb to the rotted hands of The Dead.<br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaNews.jpg|left|22px]]Recent News==<br />
{{BurbNewsIntro}}<br />
Despite periodic attempts by the living to repair the ruins amid the Hills, the zombie horde of [[The Dead]] maintains a death grip on the suburb. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 03:11, 16 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaBarricade.jpg|left|22px]] Barricade Plan ==<br />
Like most suburbs, Dunnel Hills has a survivor-based barricade plan. However, it must be noted for the sake of neutrality, that [[The_Dead|The Dead]] has its own building code, which it seeks to enforce. Both survivor and The Dead barricade policies are listed below. <br />
<br />
===Barricade Policy Diagrams and Comparison:===<br />
{| style="border:solid 1px #999; text-align:center; margin:0 auto"<br />
|-style="font-size:larger"<br />
!Zombie Plan, per [[The_Dead|The Dead]]<br />
!Survivor Plan, per the [[BPE]]<br />
|-<br />
|{{Dunell Hills Zombie Barricade Plan|Small}}<br />
|{{Dunell Hills Barricade Plan|Small}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==[[Image:AquaCompass.jpg|left|22px]]Suburb Map==<br />
{{EXP_Suburbblock|suburb=Dunell Hills|<br />
NW_Suburb=NW|<br />
N_Suburb=[[Peddlesden_Village#Suburb_Map|N]]|<br />
NE_Suburb=[[Chudleyton#Suburb_Map|NE]]|<br />
W_Suburb=W|<br />
E_Suburb=[[West_Becktown#Suburb_Map|E]]|<br />
SW_Suburb=SW|<br />
S_Suburb=[[Owsleybank#Suburb_Map|S]]|<br />
SE_Suburb=[[Molebank#Suburb_Map|SE]]|<br />
<br />
location1=[[Tharratt Road|Tharratt Road]]|location1_color=Street|<br />
location2=[[Squires Crescent|Squires Crescent]]|location2_color=Street|<br />
location3=[[Catherine General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|Catherine General Hospital]]|location3_color=Hospital|<br />
location4=[[Side Alley|Side Alley]]|location4_color=Street|<br />
location5=[[Studley Towers]]|location5_color=Tower|<br />
location6=[[Hakens Way|Hakens Way]]|location6_color=Street|<br />
location7=[[Dalwood Lane|Dalwood Lane]]|location7_color=Street|<br />
location8=[[the Pettman Museum]]|location8_color=Museum|<br />
location9=[[Salt Towers]]|location9_color=Tower|<br />
location10=[[Wasteland 9,30|wasteland]]|location10_color=Wasteland|<br />
location11=[[the Moon Building]]|location11_color=Building|<br />
location12=[[Club Swain]]|location12_color=Club|<br />
location13=[[St. Justin's Hospital]]|location13_color=Hospital|<br />
location14=[[Woodgate Avenue|Woodgate Avenue]]|location14_color=Street|<br />
location15=[[the Roger Hotel]]|location15_color=Hotel|<br />
location16=[[Clarry Towers]]|location16_color=Tower|<br />
location17=[[Main Walk|Main Walk]]|location17_color=Street|<br />
location18=[[Club Illing]]|location18_color=Club|<br />
location19=[[Henderson Boulevard|Henderson Boulevard]]|location19_color=Street|<br />
location20=[[Prinn Drive|Prinn Drive]]|location20_color=Street|<br />
location21=[[St. Luke's Church (Dunell Hills)|St. Luke's Church]]|location21_color=Church|<br />
location22=[[Raynols Boulevard|Raynols Boulevard]]|location22_color=Street|<br />
location23=[[the Puckle Monument|the Puckle Monument]]|location23_color=Monument|<br />
location24=[[Bigg Boulevard|Bigg Boulevard]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location24_color=Street|<br />
location25=[[Stephen General Hospital]]|location25_color=Hospital|<br />
location26=[[Polley Grove|Polley Grove]]|location26_color=Street|<br />
location27=[[Brimson Alley Railway Station|Brimson Alley Railway Station]]|location27_color=Railway Station|<br />
location28=[[Powlet Grove|Powlet Grove]]|location28_color=Street|<br />
location29=[[Yea Drive Police Department]]|location29_color=Police Dept|<br />
location30=[[Lolley Library]]|location30_color=Library|<br />
location31=[[the Jacomb Arms]]|location31_color=Arms|<br />
location32=[[Cotty Street Police Department]]|location32_color=Police Dept|<br />
location33=[[Factory 2,33|a factory]]|location33_color=Factory|<br />
location34=[[the Neate Monument|the Neate Monument]]|location34_color=Monument|<br />
location35=[[Parsley Road|Parsley Road]]|location35_color=Street|<br />
location36=[[Craigie Alley|Craigie Alley]]|location36_color=Street|<br />
location37=[[St. Marcus's Church (Dunell Hills)|St. Marcus's Church]]|location37_color=Church|<br />
location38=[[Hilborn Walk|Hilborn Walk]]<br>RP|location38_color=Street|<br />
location39=[[Eckersley Cinema]]|location39_color=Cinema|<br />
location40=[[Bendle Drive|Bendle Drive]]|location40_color=Street|<br />
location41=[[Gould Walk|Gould Walk]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location41_color=Street|<br />
location42=[[the Heal Museum]]|location42_color=Museum|<br />
location43=[[Combe Lane (Dunell Hills)|Combe Lane]]|location43_color=Street|<br />
location44=[[Inclesdon Drive|Inclesdon Drive]]|location44_color=Street|<br />
location45=[[Junkyard 4,34|a junkyard]]|location45_color=Junkyard|<br />
location46=[[North Lane|North Lane]]|location46_color=Street|<br />
location47=[[Hartry Crescent|Hartry Crescent]]|location47_color=Street|<br />
location48=[[the Fortune Building]]|location48_color=Building|<br />
location49=[[Blight Park (Dunell Hills)|Blight Park]]|location49_color=Park|<br />
location50=[[the Golling Building]]|location50_color=Building|<br />
location51=[[Coffins Drive|Coffins Drive]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location51_color=Street|<br />
location52=[[Heming Way|Heming Way]]|location52_color=Street|<br />
location53=[[Dewfall Plaza Railway Station|Dewfall Plaza Railway Station]]|location53_color=Railway Station|<br />
location54=[[Swonnell Walk|Swonnell Walk]]|location54_color=Street|<br />
location55=[[Anderson Row School]]|location55_color=School|<br />
location56=[[Shilling Walk|Shilling Walk]]|location56_color=Street|<br />
location57=[[Billet Auto Repair]]|location57_color=Auto Repair|<br />
location58=[[Broadbelt Grove Police Department]]|location58_color=Police Dept|<br />
location59=[[Wasteland 8,35|wasteland]]|location59_color=Wasteland|<br />
location60=[[Ainslie Road Fire Station]]|location60_color=Fire Station|<br />
location61=[[Newten Cinema]]|location61_color=Cinema|<br />
location62=[[Wakley Boulevard|Wakley Boulevard]]|location62_color=Street|<br />
location63=[[Ostrehan Towers]]<br> MPM|location63_color=Tower|<br />
location64=[[Godsland Street School]]|location64_color=School|<br />
location65=[[the McGarth Building]]|location65_color=Building|<br />
location66=[[the Dury Building (Dunell Hills)|the Dury Building]]|location66_color= NecroTech |<br />
location67=[[Zephyrinus_General_Hospital_(Dunell_Hills)|Zephyrinus General Hospital]]|location67_color=Hospital|<br />
location68=[[Club Meade|Club Meade]]|location68_color=Club|<br />
location69=[[Coorte Square|Coorte Square]]|location69_color=Street|<br />
location70=[[Standen Row|Standen Row]]|location70_color=Street|<br />
location71=[[the Stone Motel]]|location71_color=Hotel|<br />
location72=[[Neyens Avenue (Dunell Hills)|Neyens Avenue]]|location72_color=Street|<br />
location73=[[Newbury Library]]|location73_color=Library|<br />
location74=[[Arbuthnot Park|Arbuthnot Park]]|location74_color=Park|<br />
location75=[[Factory 4,37|a factory]]|location75_color=Factory|<br />
location76=[[Molesworth Road]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location76_color=Street|<br />
location77=[[St. Lorenzo's Church (Dunell Hills)|St. Lorenzo's Church]]|location77_color=Church|<br />
location78=[[Comer Avenue|Comer Avenue]]|location78_color=Street|<br />
location79=[[St. Mary's Church (Dunell Hills)|St. Mary's Church]]|location79_color=Church|<br />
location80=[[Glass Park|Glass Park]]|location80_color=Park|<br />
location81=[[the Hatson Building]]|location81_color=Building|<br />
location82=[[the Mashman Building]]|location82_color=Building|<br />
location83=[[Carpark 2,38|a carpark]]|location83_color=Carpark|<br />
location84=[[Horn Walk|Horn Walk]]|location84_color=Street|<br />
location85=[[Brendan General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|Brendan General Hospital]]|location85_color=Hospital|<br />
location86=[[Penny Crescent|Penny Crescent]]|location86_color=Street|<br />
location87=[[Fullaway Crescent|Fullaway Crescent]]|location87_color=Street|<br />
location88=[[the Tibbs Monument|the Tibbs Monument]]|location88_color=Monument|<br />
location89=[[Cemetery 8,38|a cemetery]]<br>RP|location89_color=Cemetery|<br />
location90=[[Factory 9,38|a factory]]|location90_color=Factory|<br />
location91=[[Bowley Lane|Bowley Lane]]|location91_color=Street|<br />
location92=[[Summers Row|Summers Row]]|location92_color=Street|<br />
location93=[[Basher Street|Basher Street]]|location93_color=Street|<br />
location94=[[Wasteland 3,39|wasteland]]|location94_color=Wasteland|<br />
location95=[[Ritchie Boulevard|Ritchie Boulevard]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location95_color=Street|<br />
location96=[[Lucius General Hospital (Dunell Hills)|Lucius General Hospital]]|location96_color=Hospital|<br />
location97=[[Wasteland 6,39|wasteland]]|location97_color=Wasteland|<br />
location98=[[Leader Drive|Leader Drive]]<br> [[Image:Billb.gif|20px]]|location98_color=Street|<br />
location99=[[Bush Crescent Fire Station]]|location99_color=Fire Station|<br />
location100=[[Carpark 9,39|a carpark]]|location100_color=Carpark}}<br />
,.</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:GHOST/Snooze_Strong&diff=2413865Talk:GHOST/Snooze Strong2021-08-10T18:13:08Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Better Data */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Better Data==<br />
If you'd like a better table that's more useful, try this:<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
{| class="sortable" style="margin:auto; font-family:Courier, monospace; color:#000000; text-align:center;" cellpadding="2"<br />
|+'''A Record of 100AP+ Repairs'''<br />
|-<br />
! scope="col"| AP<br />
! scope="col"| Name<br />
! scope="col"| Date<br />
|-<br />
|504||Lucy Daniels||7 July 2021<br />
|-<br />
! scope="row" | 34,320<br />
! colspan="2"|Total GHOST repair AP<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="3"|15:49, 9 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
|}<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
It'll look like this:<br />
<br />
{| class="sortable" style="margin:auto; font-family:Courier, monospace; color:#000000; text-align:center;" cellpadding="2"<br />
|+'''A Record of 100AP+ Repairs'''<br />
|-<br />
! scope="col"| AP<br />
! scope="col"| Name<br />
! scope="col"| Date<br />
|-<br />
|504||Lucy Daniels||7 July 2021<br />
|-<br />
! scope="row" | 34,320<br />
! colspan="2"| Total GHOST repair AP<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="3"| 15:49, 9 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Data entry is an exercise left for the user.<br />
--{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 18:13, 10 August 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:GHOST/Snooze_Strong&diff=2413864Talk:GHOST/Snooze Strong2021-08-10T18:11:41Z<p>Dragonshardz: Created page with "==Better Data== If you'd like a better table that's more useful, try this: <pre> {| class="sortable" style="margin:auto; font-family:Courier, monospace; color:#000000; text-a..."</p>
<hr />
<div>==Better Data==<br />
If you'd like a better table that's more useful, try this:<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
{| class="sortable" style="margin:auto; font-family:Courier, monospace; color:#000000; text-align:center;" cellpadding="2"<br />
|+'''A Record of 100AP+ Repairs'''<br />
|-<br />
! scope="col"| AP<br />
! scope="col"| Name<br />
! scope="col"| Date<br />
|-<br />
|504||Lucy Daniels||7 July 2021<br />
|-<br />
! scope="row" | 34,320<br />
! colspan="2"|Total GHOST repair AP<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="3"|15:49, 9 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
|}<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
It'll look like this:<br />
<br />
{| class="sortable" style="margin:auto; font-family:Courier, monospace; color:#000000; text-align:center;" cellpadding="2"<br />
|+'''A Record of 100AP+ Repairs'''<br />
|-<br />
! scope="col"| AP<br />
! scope="col"| Name<br />
! scope="col"| Date<br />
|-<br />
|504||Lucy Daniels||7 July 2021<br />
|-<br />
! scope="row" | 34,320<br />
! colspan="2"| Total GHOST repair AP<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="3"| 15:49, 9 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
|}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat_Promotions&diff=2413339UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat Promotions2021-06-30T19:50:34Z<p>Dragonshardz: moving commentary back to correct spot</p>
<hr />
<div>{{BPIntro}}<br />
=Election Space=<br />
Voting for the June-December term is '''now open'''! You may vote for '''up to two candidates''' anytime within the two week election window. Don't forget to sign your votes!<br />
:'''Start Time:''' 00:11, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
:'''Finish Time:''' 00:11, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Eligible Candidates==<br />
===A Helpful Little Gnome===<br />
{{bid|A Helpful Little Gnome|RE}}<br />
#please promote J3D again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 08:28, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 18:33, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Jimbob|Jimbob]] ([[User talk:Jimbob|talk]]) 20:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWe5orNZiQ Ocular] <span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Druuuuu]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 00:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 00:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# A vote for Gnome, is a vote for a garden well kept --<small>[[User:Hagnat|hagnat]]</small> 17:14, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:ShaqFu|ShaqFu]] 🏀 {{Goonsig|ShaqFu}} 🏀 19:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:Teaspoon|Teaspoon]] ([[User talk:Teaspoon|talk]]) 23:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Colbear]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 23:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Starlingt|Starlingt]] ([[User talk:Starlingt|talk]]) 00:06, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===DanceDanceRevolution===<br />
{{bid|DanceDanceRevolution|RE}}<br />
# {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:13, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:RogueRisker|RogueRisker]] ([[User talk:RogueRisker|talk]]) 00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#DROSS? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 18:35, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Jimbob|Jimbob]] ([[User talk:Jimbob|talk]]) 20:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWe5orNZiQ Ocular] <span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Druuuuu]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 00:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 00:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:ShaqFu|ShaqFu]] 🏀 {{Goonsig|ShaqFu}} 🏀 19:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:Teaspoon|Teaspoon]] ([[User talk:Teaspoon|talk]]) 23:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Colbear]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 23:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Starlingt|Starlingt]] ([[User talk:Starlingt|talk]]) 00:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<!--<br />
===Hagnat===<br />
{{bid|hagnat|RE}}<br />
Obligatory Hagnat's hidden-bid<br />
# vote hagnat for drama-llama! --~~~~<br />
--><br />
<br />
===Rosslessness===<br />
{{bid|Rosslessness|RE}}<br />
# I'm a simple man and easily manipulated by reverse psychology. '''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 12:32, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#ROSDR? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#what does this button do? --[[User:Hajen|hajen]] ([[User talk:Hajen|talk]]) 21:41, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Stelar===<br />
{{bid|Stelar|RE}}<br />
# {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:13, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:RogueRisker|RogueRisker]] ([[User talk:RogueRisker|talk]]) 00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# She's active, which is more than can be said for UD wiki sys-ops. '''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 12:32, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Thisisbright|Thisisbright]] ([[User talk:Thisisbright|talk]]) 17:22, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 20:30, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:DDR-Back-That-Time-He-Was-A-Vandal|DDR-Back-That-Time-He-Was-A-Vandal]] ([[User talk:DDR-Back-That-Time-He-Was-A-Vandal|talk]]) 20:34, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:FennisZotorman|FennisZotorman]] [[User:FennisZotorman|FennisZotorman]] ([[User talk:FennisZotorman|talk]]) 20:51, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Brom Armostrong|Brom Armostrong]] ([[User talk:Brom Armostrong|talk]]) 21:13, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# i'l trade a vote for bitcoin anyday --[[User:Hajen|hajen]] ([[User talk:Hajen|talk]]) 21:43, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:I&#39;m all riggered up|I&#39;m all riggered up]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m all riggered up|talk]]) 22:47, 29 June 2021 (UTC) Is this where the free beer is at?<br />
# [[User:Flitte|Flitte]] 00:21, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
## HA NOPE YOU MISSED IT BY TEN FULL MINUTES. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:01, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:ReviverMcgyver|ReviverMcgyver]] 12:40, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Ineligible & Withdrawn Candidates==<br />
===Bob Moncrief===<br />
{{bid|Bob Moncrief|RE}}<br />
:Given that I've just experienced a surprise two-month hiatus, and that I expect to be extremely busy especially in the July-September period, I'm '''withdrawing''' from this round of crat elections. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:15, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Results==<br />
<br />
==Archived Bureaucrat Promotions==<br />
''For earlier bureaucrat promotions, see the following:''<br />
*[[:Category:{{CURRENTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|This year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[:Category:{{LASTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|Last year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[A/SA|Sysop Archives]] for other related activities<br />
<br />
{{CratPromoArchive}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat_Promotions&diff=2413333UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat Promotions2021-06-30T01:01:29Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Stelar */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{BPIntro}}<br />
=Election Space=<br />
Voting for the June-December term is '''now open'''! You may vote for '''up to two candidates''' anytime within the two week election window. Don't forget to sign your votes!<br />
:'''Start Time:''' 00:11, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
:'''Finish Time:''' 00:11, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Eligible Candidates==<br />
===A Helpful Little Gnome===<br />
{{bid|A Helpful Little Gnome|RE}}<br />
#please promote J3D again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 08:28, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 18:33, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Jimbob|Jimbob]] ([[User talk:Jimbob|talk]]) 20:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWe5orNZiQ Ocular] <span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Druuuuu]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 00:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 00:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# A vote for Gnome, is a vote for a garden well kept --<small>[[User:Hagnat|hagnat]]</small> 17:14, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:ShaqFu|ShaqFu]] 🏀 {{Goonsig|ShaqFu}} 🏀 19:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:Teaspoon|Teaspoon]] ([[User talk:Teaspoon|talk]]) 23:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Colbear]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 23:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Starlingt|Starlingt]] ([[User talk:Starlingt|talk]]) 00:06, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===DanceDanceRevolution===<br />
{{bid|DanceDanceRevolution|RE}}<br />
# {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:13, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:RogueRisker|RogueRisker]] ([[User talk:RogueRisker|talk]]) 00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#DROSS? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 18:35, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Jimbob|Jimbob]] ([[User talk:Jimbob|talk]]) 20:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWe5orNZiQ Ocular] <span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Druuuuu]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 00:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 00:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:ShaqFu|ShaqFu]] 🏀 {{Goonsig|ShaqFu}} 🏀 19:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:Teaspoon|Teaspoon]] ([[User talk:Teaspoon|talk]]) 23:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Colbear]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 23:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Starlingt|Starlingt]] ([[User talk:Starlingt|talk]]) 00:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<!--<br />
===Hagnat===<br />
{{bid|hagnat|RE}}<br />
Obligatory Hagnat's hidden-bid<br />
# vote hagnat for drama-llama! --~~~~<br />
--><br />
<br />
===Rosslessness===<br />
{{bid|Rosslessness|RE}}<br />
# I'm a simple man and easily manipulated by reverse psychology. '''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 12:32, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#ROSDR? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#what does this button do? --[[User:Hajen|hajen]] ([[User talk:Hajen|talk]]) 21:41, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Stelar===<br />
{{bid|Stelar|RE}}<br />
# {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:13, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:RogueRisker|RogueRisker]] ([[User talk:RogueRisker|talk]]) 00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# She's active, which is more than can be said for UD wiki sys-ops. '''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 12:32, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Thisisbright|Thisisbright]] ([[User talk:Thisisbright|talk]]) 17:22, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Clayton Carmine|Clayton Carmine]] ([[User talk:Clayton Carmine|talk]]) 20:30, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:DDR-Back-That-Time-He-Was-A-Vandal|DDR-Back-That-Time-He-Was-A-Vandal]] ([[User talk:DDR-Back-That-Time-He-Was-A-Vandal|talk]]) 20:34, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:FennisZotorman|FennisZotorman]] [[User:FennisZotorman|FennisZotorman]] ([[User talk:FennisZotorman|talk]]) 20:51, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Brom Armostrong|Brom Armostrong]] ([[User talk:Brom Armostrong|talk]]) 21:13, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# i'l trade a vote for bitcoin anyday --[[User:Hajen|hajen]] ([[User talk:Hajen|talk]]) 21:43, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:I&#39;m all riggered up|I&#39;m all riggered up]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m all riggered up|talk]]) 22:47, 29 June 2021 (UTC) Is this where the free beer is at?<br />
# [[User:Flitte|Flitte]] 00:21, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: HA NOPE YOU MISSED IT BY TEN FULL MINUTES. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:01, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Ineligible & Withdrawn Candidates==<br />
===Bob Moncrief===<br />
{{bid|Bob Moncrief|RE}}<br />
:Given that I've just experienced a surprise two-month hiatus, and that I expect to be extremely busy especially in the July-September period, I'm '''withdrawing''' from this round of crat elections. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:15, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Results==<br />
<br />
==Archived Bureaucrat Promotions==<br />
''For earlier bureaucrat promotions, see the following:''<br />
*[[:Category:{{CURRENTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|This year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[:Category:{{LASTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|Last year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[A/SA|Sysop Archives]] for other related activities<br />
<br />
{{CratPromoArchive}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat_Promotions&diff=2413332UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat Promotions2021-06-30T01:01:15Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Stelar */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{BPIntro}}<br />
=Election Space=<br />
Voting for the June-December term is '''now open'''! You may vote for '''up to two candidates''' anytime within the two week election window. Don't forget to sign your votes!<br />
:'''Start Time:''' 00:11, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
:'''Finish Time:''' 00:11, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Eligible Candidates==<br />
===A Helpful Little Gnome===<br />
{{bid|A Helpful Little Gnome|RE}}<br />
#please promote J3D again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 08:28, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 18:33, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Jimbob|Jimbob]] ([[User talk:Jimbob|talk]]) 20:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWe5orNZiQ Ocular] <span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Druuuuu]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 00:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 00:21, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# A vote for Gnome, is a vote for a garden well kept --<small>[[User:Hagnat|hagnat]]</small> 17:14, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:ShaqFu|ShaqFu]] 🏀 {{Goonsig|ShaqFu}} 🏀 19:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:Teaspoon|Teaspoon]] ([[User talk:Teaspoon|talk]]) 23:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#<span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Colbear]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 23:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Starlingt|Starlingt]] ([[User talk:Starlingt|talk]]) 00:06, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===DanceDanceRevolution===<br />
{{bid|DanceDanceRevolution|RE}}<br />
# {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:13, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:RogueRisker|RogueRisker]] ([[User talk:RogueRisker|talk]]) 00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#DROSS? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 18:35, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:Jimbob|Jimbob]] ([[User talk:Jimbob|talk]]) 20:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWe5orNZiQ Ocular] <span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Druuuuu]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Gardenator|<span style="color:#808000">&#124;</span>]][[User:ephphatha |<span style="color:#0000ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SA|<span style="color:#0018ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sniper625 |<span style="color:#0030ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Envious |<span style="color:#0060ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:ED Nort |<span style="color:#0078ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Moraldelima |<span style="color:#0090ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:SenorFP |<span style="color:#00A8ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Dragonshardz |<span style="color:#00C0ff">&#124;</span>]]</span> 00:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#[[User:Fistbump Jackson|Fistbump Jackson]] ([[User talk:Fistbump Jackson|talk]]) 00:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:ShaqFu|ShaqFu]] 🏀 {{Goonsig|ShaqFu}} 🏀 19:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
#--[[User:Teaspoon|Teaspoon]] ([[User talk:Teaspoon|talk]]) 23:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===Hagnat===<br />
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===Rosslessness===<br />
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# I'm a simple man and easily manipulated by reverse psychology. '''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 12:32, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===Stelar===<br />
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# i'l trade a vote for bitcoin anyday --[[User:Hajen|hajen]] ([[User talk:Hajen|talk]]) 21:43, 29 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:I&#39;m all riggered up|I&#39;m all riggered up]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m all riggered up|talk]]) 22:47, 29 June 2021 (UTC) Is this where the free beer is at?<br />
# [[User:Flitte|Flitte]] 00:21, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
: HA NOPE YOU MISSED IT BY TEN FULL MINUTES. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:01, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Ineligible & Withdrawn Candidates==<br />
===Bob Moncrief===<br />
{{bid|Bob Moncrief|RE}}<br />
:Given that I've just experienced a surprise two-month hiatus, and that I expect to be extremely busy especially in the July-September period, I'm '''withdrawing''' from this round of crat elections. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:15, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Results==<br />
<br />
==Archived Bureaucrat Promotions==<br />
''For earlier bureaucrat promotions, see the following:''<br />
*[[:Category:{{CURRENTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|This year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[:Category:{{LASTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|Last year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[A/SA|Sysop Archives]] for other related activities<br />
<br />
{{CratPromoArchive}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=The_Eostre_Herbert_Siege&diff=2413307The Eostre Herbert Siege2021-06-29T17:44:17Z<p>Dragonshardz: removed excessive <br>s, also 1980s typewriter spaces</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Historian.png]]<br />
<br />
I figured that could be me. I’m [[User:Benigno|Benigno]], the founder of the historic [[Survivor Security Zone]] and an administrator on the [https://discord.gg/UJy2UUaaBE RCC Discord].<br />
<br />
This is my perspective as a survivor of what may have been the greatest siege to happen in Urban Dead in over a decade. With the numbers of people playing the game drastically lower than they were in its heyday, having well over 100 people fighting each other in one square on the map is a noteworthy occurrence. At the St. Patrick’s Day siege at Greenhow NT, we first began experimenting with Combat Revives as a defensive tactic for NTs. The lessons we learned there helped us defend the Eostre celebration that had started in Herbert NT. Read on to learn about the truly epic siege that occurred next!<br />
<br />
<br />
== The Eostre Herbert Siege 2021==<br />
<br />
[[File:Second_Summer.png]]<p><br />
<br />
[[File:Zomb_herbert_legend.png]]<br />
<br />
[[File:BabyYoda_BRRR.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===The story===<br />
<br />
<br />
At the conclusion of the Greenhow St. Paddy’s day siege party, attention shifted back to the mall complex. On March 30th, things looked sparse and dangerous.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Mar_30.png|300px]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Eerie_Hilde_Zomb.png|300px]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Half_crawling.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Survivors worked on restocking while we discussed the situation and did recon. The city slowly rebuilt. On April 3, Herbert was retaken from the few zeds that held it. The official announcement came the next day:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Vigoda_EHB.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
We had no idea of the incredible events about to unfold.<br />
<br />
<br />
Easter Sunday dawning, the celebration began.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Happy_Eostre.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
We were especially happy to spread the message of resurrection to our zombie friends!<br />
<br />
<br />
Repeating the tactic of Combat Reviving to neutralize invading zombies first tested at Greenhow, we dug in. The building was lit, and 7 zombies clawed at our doors. Then, they all seemed to disappear. Things got quiet. Too quiet. We nervously gathered supplies.<br />
<br />
<br />
Three days later, on April 7th, an appropriately numbered 7 zombies broke through the Herbert barricades including big RRF names such as Funk McBogey, Mr Eyeball Plucker, Herb Dangerous, and Hump the Messiah. Inventory was quickly discussed, and the plan was executed with the help of a few bullets from Ozmandius Prather and Indiana Jone. In less than 5 minutes, all 7 lay outside Herbert, most smelling very strange. The gauntlet, as they say, had been thrown down.<br />
<br />
<br />
The next day, the RRF went for the mall via its southeast corner. We camped in Herbert and watched the action. Herb Dangerous decided to play firebug with ZombGG:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Herb_Fire.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
The mall fell and was held for a few days. The NecroNet scan showed 16 in the SE corner. Unfazed, we held the fort. We knew that the zombies wanted brainz, and they were all in Herbert. The zombies, though, tried to draw us out first by holding the mall and then occupying Eligius General Hospital on April 11.<br />
<br />
<br />
On April 13, the zombies attacked again, this time with 8. As before, inventory was discussed, the plan was executed, and in another joyous 5 minutes they all lay stinking outside. We congratulated each other, excited about the early success of our plan.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Zomb_Clap.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Si_Fast_Fun.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Two RRF broke in later but were quickly removed.<br />
<br />
<br />
The sound of zombie claws on our barricades grew louder as more and more shamblers stacked up outside. Psychological warfare began:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Girolamo.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
...and was promptly ignored.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Darth_Kill.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
A more subtle assault began to take place. It would become almost a daily occurrence.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:DoMo_newspaper.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
On April 15th the mall was powered, but by the 17th, eleven zombies were camping inside, spread between the corners.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Half_RIP.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
A few days passed, punctuated by minor break-ins of one to two ferals. The NN scan showed 8 outside. I reminded everyone of the strategy.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Kick_n_Stick.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Inside, our numbers swelled. Drewe, of the magnificent Drewe Building in Roftwood, came after being invited to the party.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Herbert_421.png|left|200px|frame|My view from inside Herbert on 4/21]]<br />
<br />
<br />
The [[Dunell Hills Police Department]] showed up to join in on the siege that same day. We celebrated ZombGG’s birthday from 4/20 to 4/21 while we waited for the horde to return.<br />
<br />
<br />
Poetry Thursday is a simi-regular occurrence in Roftwood. On these days, players recite poetry in many forms for an attending audience.<br />
<br />
<br />
The format is open-mic, so everyone is welcome to participate. To keep with tradition, we held it on 4/22.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Poetry_1.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
I did one too:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Poetry_2.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Intel began coming in that members of the Scourge were poking around. We began formulating plans for a larger invasion and stocked up on supplies. RRF numbers had dwindled outside Herbert, but their operatives were frequently spotted. Pro-zombie graffiti began to appear.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Prop_1.png]]<br />
[[File:Prop_2.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
On April 25th, there were exactly 40 survivors occupying Herbert, likely more than it had seen in many years. RRF soldiers returned and began to wreck the surrounding buildings. Herbert got even classier, decorated with a stuffed lion head, a Grecian urn, a stuffed moose head, three European paintings, three African sculptures, a stuffed bear, a stuffed tiger head and a stuffed fish. A bit like a hunting club, but still very nice.<br />
<br />
<br />
The 29th brought another wonderful Poetry Thursday as we waited for the horde to attack. That night, a group of eight RRF broke in at one of their usual strike times. Then another was through the doors. Then two more. RRF Gore Corps troops began blasting away at survivor targets. Scrambling the defenses, the building was lit and the revives began to flow. A few minutes later, the 11 had joined a pile of 24 bodies laying outside Herbert and the barricades were rebuilt.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Decorations_Survived.png]]<br />
<br />
===The Story, Part 2===<br />
The scene the next day looked ominous.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Ominous_Zombies.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
We knew at any time, a large percentage of these zombies could attack at once and create a problem for us. ZombGG reached out to the Knights Templar and The Fortress, inviting them to join in on the action. Both immediately trekked to Herbert.<br />
<br />
<br />
That night, we found ourselves facing 7 of them after a short battle over the barricades. The number quickly ballooned to 15. As before, defenses were scrambled, and the gift of new life was given to the zombie guests. Shots of Greenhow Gutrot and Herbert Hooch were poured up for the crowd of survivors.<br />
<br />
<br />
Taking a breath after the RRF’s biggest attack yet, on May 1st we stocked up on supplies and discussed strategy. RNG and the grace of Kevan allowed us to procure those supplies quickly. We also tidied up the place:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Clean_the_floors.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
That night, another attack came in what was becoming a regular occurrence. 8 zeds had quickly appeared inside and smashed the generator but were removed with blinding speed. A short time later, three more had broken past the cades but were revived (and one shot to death) almost immediately. Over the course of the next 12 hours, small numbers of zombies including RRF would break in and eventually be kicked back out.<br />
<br />
<br />
The battle was seriously starting to heat up. More and more red names were showing up outside our doors, with zombie numbers over 30 and growing. We rallied the troops.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Troop_rally.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
The next day’s battle was a barricade war. Large amounts of AP on both sides were burnt up. Herb Dangerous got assaulted by my trusty newspaper, twice, as he made brief appearances to kill our generator. A few more generators were installed, though promptly destroyed. We instantly learned to save them for break-ins.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Newspaper_Never_Rests.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Kain Markko was beyond ready, carrying an awesome 13 needles and a generator. He reported some back pain.<br />
<br />
<br />
On May 3rd, exactly 1 month after the start of the Eostre celebration, a small breakin of 3 was cleared by Si Fast lighting and me reviving. The number of zombies + bodies outside numbered 32. Inside, 50+ survivors waited, eager to defend our NT castle.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:List_names_level.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
That night at the server reset +30 strike time, 11 RRF suddenly ripped away the barricades and stormed the building. We revived a few but were still staring at 8. After about 20 minutes, we had the building clear. The action was fierce. The siege’s first bellow occurred. <br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:3rd_action_list_1.png|center|400px]]<br />
[[File:3rd_action_list_2.png|center|400px]]<br />
<br />
<br />
The day of the 4th, seven RRF zombies smashed in but were quickly revived and removed. Alicia of the MMS raised everyone’s spirits, literally.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Alicia_Alcohol.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Later, two broke in but were promptly removed by Si Fast.<br />
<br />
<br />
May 5th – 6 zombies broke in early. I was able to revive 5, with Si Fast getting the other and doofus217 repairing the barricades to VHB. Jordantrain dumped the bodies, and we cleaned the building of the blood spatter. With the numbers on both sides continuing to grow, the epicness of the siege really began to sink in.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Therm_NT.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Long_live_herbert.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
At their later strike time, 8 zombies came bursting through the doors. While we gathered an inventory count, the number rapidly grew to 12. The time to strike back was now, and within ten minutes the horde was back outside.<br />
<br />
<br />
May 6th – 60 survivors crowded in an unlit Herbert, waiting for their chance to defend the fort. Several zombies broke in overnight and were largely repelled with bullets. The strikes had stepped up to three times a day, which ensured round-the-clock action. At the earlier strike time, 7 zombies broke in. Six were removed, but the cades remained down. Soon, the number was back up to six. Then nine. Scrambling more people, we were able to evict the zombies and barricade the building. Six more quickly tore them back down but were also removed. The zombies kept a sharp eye out for generators during the battle, destroying several moments after they were placed. The Creedy Defense Force showed up, and between people coming and going we numbered 64. Counting the zombies, this meant that there were over 100 people in this one tile.<br />
<br />
<br />
We realized that this may be the biggest siege to happen in Malton in the last 10 years, at least.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:57_b7feb8d1-2dc3-419a-8425-e80bb82d9811_600x.jpg|150px]]<br />
<br />
<br />
An MMS employee preparing for the next battle.<br />
<br />
<br />
That night we struggled over the cades. Then, without warning, FoD killers attacked.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:FoD_hit.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
We reacted calmly.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Homer.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
I got back inside but was killed a short time later by Comrade SpuD of the RRF. Such is life.<br />
<br />
<br />
On May 7th, 6 zombies broke in at a time we were not accustomed to, around midday EST. A combination of RCC members and in-game survivors took care of them in short order. But the cades came right back down, and again we found ourselves facing six zombies, their body fluids leaking all over the pristine Herbert marble flooring. Three more made it 9. Then 10, as we discussed our inventories. Then 11. It was revive time! In short order, all eleven lay outside the mighty Herbert walls. In total, 17 zombies had attacked. Fixgen, a command we had been using a bit, was well executed during this battle, allowing us more time to stab zombies with needles.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Alice_Repair.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Another zombie broke in later. It was dispatched in style.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Zed_Tree.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
At server reset +54 minutes, another 7 broke in. Heals were distributed while we did a roll call. Doc Hwang threw a fit after just having cleaned:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Doc_Floor.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
The 7 were never fully cleared, and three hours later 16 brain-obsessed zombies were drooling over the prospect of a virtually endless survivor buffet. We switched tactics a bit, electing to reinforce the meatshield instead of poking zombies until we could organize a bigger clearing effort. The party had officially become epic.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:May_7_epic.jpg|600px]]<br />
<br />
<br />
At 6:48 AM EST, the situation inside looked extremely dire.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:28_zombies_dire.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
We were hoping that the sheer size of the meatshield would hold the building until we could organize the effort. We began to gather our resources and calculate AP usage. We weren’t sure if we could do it.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Alice_Pull_Wild.png|center|Alice Lester's remarks]]<br />
<br />
<br />
We were currently looking at 35 zombies, with the number of survivors inside now cut in half. It was a close match. We set a strike time and made announcements in the hope that enough people would log on the Discord and be there for the strike. While we waited, the number of dead grew to a bone-chilling 41. We didn’t get a lot of communication on the server. Morale began to drop.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Alicia_no_chance.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
But, despite our concern, the tide began to change. A survivor inside randomly lit the building and revives began to flow. We quickly cut the number of zombies in half, but 21 remained. Surprisingly, more and more people both in-game and on the Discord began to log on and hit the zombies with needles. We went down to 19. Then 17. 16. 14. We began to be amazed at the prospect of evicting that many zombies in the face of certain defeat! Soon, there were ten. Nine. 7. Ozmandius quickly jabbed three. 3. 2. 1. ZERO.<br />
<br />
<br />
Cades: VHB. Herbert: clear.<br />
<br />
<br />
We could hardly believe it. We had never seen this new-to-us tactic work on such a large scale. We didn’t even think we had the numbers nor the supplies.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Ben_Faith_1.png|center|300px]]<br />
[[File:Ben_Faith_2.png|center|300px]]<br />
<br />
<br />
30 of us remained inside Herbert, less than half of its peak population. We had endured many casualties in the battle, and other survivors had scattered into neighboring buildings. But we ''celebrated'' this victory.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Barrels_Gutrot.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Indiana_Big.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
We put the word out to survivors hiding nearby that Herbert was again secure and asking that they come back to help defend. Something occurred to me about the mass eviction:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:One_Genny.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
It wasn’t even a genny we had placed.<br />
<br />
<br />
By May 9th we were back up to 39 survivors. We knew the zombies would awaken to great surprise and become extremely determined to debrain us. A quick look outside showed 32 standing zombies at our door, as well as 27 bodies although some were friendlies. Another small barricade battle was won by the survivors early on. Bad behavior was punished:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Kain_yoda_slap.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
At their post-server-reset strike time, we found ourselves with 10 RRF zombies inside. A quick operation ensued, the zombies were removed, and the barricades raised to EHB. However, 3 more appeared. They too were swiftly evicted and the cades repaired to VHB.<br />
<br />
<br />
Around midnight (EST, my time zone), four more RRF zombies broke in, but were repelled and the cades repaired. Relentless, at 4:40 AM, 7 zombies spearheaded another invasion effort. The number quickly increased to ten. An hour later, sixteen were inside. An hour after that, it was 26. Waiting for my USA time zone people to wake up, we started taking inventory. It took about another hour, but we had 24 needles ready and knew we could throw up some cades with only 2 inside. Lighting the building, we whittled the number down to 9 when the generator was suddenly destroyed by an active zombie. We had another ready but counted our remaining needles before striking again. We found we were ready, and by this time fewer zombies remained. A quick op finished off the remaining zombies and the building was once again clear.<br />
<br />
<br />
A look outside later showed 22 standing zombies and 46 bodies outside Herbert. <br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Zomb_46_bodies.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Having won another big battle, we felt confident, but the power of the zombie numbers did not escape us.<br />
<br />
<br />
At their ~2 PM EST strike time later on May 10th, Kain Markko spotted 7 inside and the doors wide open. Two more swiftly followed. Soon, we were staring at 14. An hour later, it was 19. Then 23, as we desperately tried to muster supplies. By 5 we had the number back down to 19 which wasn’t very comforting. However, as people in the USA got off work and began logging on, we began taking inventory. Suddenly realizing we had enough to clear the remaining zombies, we put the plan into action!<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Zedd_stabbity.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Immediately, the deed was done. More celebrations ensued as two big battles in the same day had both been won by survivors!<br />
<br />
{|<br />
|[[File:Rubble_flags.png|left]]<br />
|[[File:Zombie_needles.png|left]]<br />
|[[File:Colbert_Needles.png|left]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
[[File:2nd_battle_order.png|left]]<br />
<br />
On May 11th, at server reset plus about 2 hours, 4 zombies broke in but were again removed quickly.<br />
<br />
<br />
33 zombies stood clawing at our cades. The noise was deafening. Another 33 lay in the dirt, waiting for their chance to pounce.<br />
<br />
<br />
At the 2:30 PM EST strike time, 9 more zombies broke in. 15 minutes later they lay outside. As we resupplied we realized that search rates for all of our supplies had dropped drastically. Barricades, as always, were constantly being torn down and rebuilt. 41 zombies stood outside the gates, and 21 more lay on the ground.<br />
<br />
<br />
Their server-reset-ish strike time brought in another 9. Soon, it was 18. Then, 22. The most active people started being picked off. While we made our inventory list, we watched the now 25 zombies slowly shamble around and munch on random brainz.<br />
<br />
<br />
It was soon we realized the terrible truth. The huge battle had attracted a horde of [[The Dead]] and they were plowing through survivors like no tomorrow. We hoped the meatshield would hold.<br />
<br />
<br />
By 9:00 AM EST, a lot of damage had been done. 42 zombies stood inside, facing only 16 remaining survivors. Nobody on either side was happy that an unexpected horde of [[The Dead]] had ruined what had effectively become a stalemate. Survivors had hoped for a win through attrition; we wanted to make the zombie side give up. We believed we were close. Maybe not. But it’s a prospect that really motivated us, if we could pull it off. A member of the RRF sent us a message:<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Zombie_congrats.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
By that night, 55 zombies were inside, with 13 survivors comprising the last of the meatshield. An hour later, it was 65 vs 11. By 4:00 AM, there were an astounding 71 inside, a frustrating amount of them part of the invading horde of [[The Dead]].<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Si_ruined.png|The end came soon after.]]<br />
<br />
<br />
A survivor, one lone hero, gave the zombies one last message.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Lone_hero.png]]<br />
<br />
<br />
To our great sadness, the destruction of the decorations soon followed.<br />
We took stock of what had happened and discussed a lot of strategy regarding setup and many different contengencies. A short after-party was held at The Horsey Museum in Shackleville, hosted by ZombGG.<br />
<br />
===Conclusion===<br />
The Combat Revive is now standard operating procedure at Herbert and all our NTs zone-wide. The RRF has never truly let up on assaulting the building, and as of today (6/18/2021) they are breaking in at least daily and make a lot of effort to cut off our supplies. As we adjusted our tactics, so they have adjusted theirs, making their strikes more complex to combat our most active players.<br />
<br />
<br />
If you’re reading this and you’re friendly, come to [[Roftwood]]! It’s one of the most active places in Malton and it’s never boring. Coordinate in-game or on the [https://discord.gg/UJy2UUaaBE Roftwood Discord] to be part of the action!<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:RCC_Logo_2.png|center]]</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat_Promotions&diff=2413073UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat Promotions2021-06-16T17:55:08Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Eligible Candidates */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{BPIntro}}<br />
=Election Space=<br />
Voting for the June-December term is '''now open'''! You may vote for '''up to two candidates''' anytime within the two week election window. Don't forget to sign your votes!<br />
:'''Start Time:''' 00:11, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
:'''Finish Time:''' 00:11, 30 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Eligible Candidates==<br />
===A Helpful Little Gnome===<br />
{{bid|A Helpful Little Gnome|RE}}<br />
#please promote J3D again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 08:28, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===DanceDanceRevolution===<br />
{{bid|DanceDanceRevolution|RE}}<br />
# {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:13, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:RogueRisker|RogueRisker]] ([[User talk:RogueRisker|talk]]) 00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Rosslessness===<br />
{{bid|Rosslessness|RE}}<br />
# I'm a simple man and easily manipulated by reverse psychology. '''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 12:32, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Stelar===<br />
{{bid|Stelar|RE}}<br />
# {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:13, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# [[User:RogueRisker|RogueRisker]] ([[User talk:RogueRisker|talk]]) 00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
# She's active, which is more than can be said for UD wiki sys-ops. '''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 12:32, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Ineligible & Withdrawn Candidates==<br />
===Bob Moncrief===<br />
{{bid|Bob Moncrief|RE}}<br />
:Given that I've just experienced a surprise two-month hiatus, and that I expect to be extremely busy especially in the July-September period, I'm '''withdrawing''' from this round of crat elections. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 00:15, 16 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Results==<br />
<br />
==Archived Bureaucrat Promotions==<br />
''For earlier bureaucrat promotions, see the following:''<br />
*[[:Category:{{CURRENTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|This year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[:Category:{{LASTYEAR}}_Bureaucrat_Promotion_Archives|Last year's bureaucrat promotions]]<br />
*[[A/SA|Sysop Archives]] for other related activities<br />
<br />
{{CratPromoArchive}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=DMZ&diff=2412943DMZ2021-05-19T22:15:54Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>An acronym for two regions centered on [[Dunell Hills]] with different purposes and extents.<br />
**[[Dunell Hills Police Department/Dunell Hills Military Zone|Dunell Hills Military Zone]]<br />
**[[The_Dead/Dead Man Zone|Dead Man Zone]]<br />
<br />
{{disambig}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=GHOST/Head_West&diff=2412537GHOST/Head West2021-04-12T04:47:18Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
<center>[[File:GHOST-white.jpg]]</center><br />
{| style="width:75%" cellpadding="2" align="center" color="#000000"<br />
|-<br />
|width="600pt"|<br />
|-<br />
|<div style="text-align:center; text-align: center"><span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#000000"><br />
Survivors: rise up.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">I must not fear.</span><br><br />
<br />
Fear not the Dead or their ilk.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Fear is the mind-killer.</span><br><br />
<br />
Leave your comforts behind.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Fear is the little-death</span><br><br />
<br />
Leave your malls. Leave your bastions of solace.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">that brings total obliteration.</span><br><br />
<br />
'''Head west.'''<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">I will face my fear.</span><br><br />
<br />
To Dunell Hills. To Roywood. To New Arkham.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">I will permit it to pass over me and through me.</span><br><br />
<br />
'''Snooze strong.'''<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">And when it has gone past</span><br><br />
<br />
(Exhausted, you can go no further.)<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">I will turn the inner eye to see its path.</span><br><br />
<br />
And if you follow the path that few have walked before<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.</span><br><br />
<br />
Join us. We're GHOST.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Only I will remain.</span><br><br />
<br />
[[GHOST|Wiki Home]] | [[GHOST/Snooze_Strong|Snooze Strong]] | [https://discord.gg/ufub68pxDn Discord]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Group_Subpages]]</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=GHOST/Head_West&diff=2412536GHOST/Head West2021-04-12T04:46:15Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
<center>[[File:GHOST-white.jpg]]</center><br />
{| style="width:75%" cellpadding="2" align="center" color="#000000"<br />
|-<br />
|width="600pt"|<br />
|-<br />
|<div style="text-align:center; text-align: center"><span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#000000"><br />
Survivors: rise up.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">I must not fear.</span><br><br />
<br />
Fear not the Dead or their ilk.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Fear is the mind-killer.</span><br><br />
<br />
Leave your comforts behind.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Fear is the little-death</span><br><br />
<br />
Leave your malls. Leave your bastions of solace.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">that brings total obliteration.</span><br><br />
<br />
'''Head west.'''<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">I will face my fear.</span><br><br />
<br />
To Dunell Hills. To Roywood. To New Arkham.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">I will permit it to pass over me and through me.</span><br><br />
<br />
'''Snooze strong.'''<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">And when it has gone past</span><br><br />
<br />
(Exhausted, you can go no further.)<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">I will turn the inner eye to see its path.</span><br><br />
<br />
And if you follow the path that few have walked before<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.</span><br><br />
<br />
Join us. We're GHOST.<br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Only I will remain.</span><br><br />
<br />
[[[GHOST|Wiki Home]] | [[GHOST/Snooze_Strong|Snooze Strong]] | [https://discord.gg/ufub68pxDn Discord]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Group_Subpages]]</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=GHOST/Snooze_Strong&diff=2412535GHOST/Snooze Strong2021-04-12T04:45:29Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
<center>[[File:GHOST-white.jpg]]</center><br />
{| style="width:75%" cellpadding="2" align="center" color="#000000"<br />
|-<br />
|width="600pt"|<br />
|-<br />
|<div style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#000000"><br />
'''A Record of 100AP+ Repairs'''<br />
<br />
<br />
321AP : Lucy Daniels : 04/08/21<br />
<br />
315AP : Icie Hot : 04/08/21 <br />
<br />
296AP : Gideon Coxall : 03/28/21<br />
<br />
290AP : Kevin Turvey : 03/20/21<br />
<br />
285AP : syringe hamster : 03/21/21<br />
<br />
279AP : syringe hamster : 03/12/21<br />
<br />
278AP : Lucy Daniels : 03/12/21<br />
<br />
269AP : Gideon Coxall : 03/19/21<br />
<br />
266AP : syringe hamster : 02/23/21<br />
<br />
265AP : Kevin Turvey : 02/24/21<br />
<br />
264AP : Icie Hot : 03/13/21<br />
<br />
259AP : Crashjwala : 04/11/21<br />
<br />
244AP : Spyduck : 04/11/21<br />
<br />
239AP : Crashjwala : 04/02/21<br />
<br />
219AP : Gideon Coxall : 03/13/21<br />
<br />
184AP : The 5th Chomp : 02/20/21<br />
<br />
180AP : syringe hamster : 03/04/21<br />
<br />
178AP : Icie Hot : 02/17/21<br />
<br />
178AP : The 5th Chomp : 03/16/21<br />
<br />
174AP : syringe hamster : 03/08/21<br />
<br />
172AP : Spyduck : 03/14/21<br />
<br />
164AP : Icie Hot : 02/21/21<br />
<br />
163AP : Lucy Daniels : 03/08/21<br />
<br />
143AP : Lucy Daniels : 02/20/21 <br />
<br />
135AP : Icie Hot : 03/20/21<br />
<br />
129AP : Lucy Daniels : 02/25/21<br />
<br />
127AP : Ian Chesterton : 04/06/21<br />
<br />
<br><br />
'''Total GHOST repair AP: 6,016'''<br><br />
(14:21, 11 April 2021 (UTC))</span></div><br />
|}<br />
<br><br />
<center><span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#000000">[[GHOST|Wiki Home]] | [[GHOST/Head_West|Head West]] | [https://discord.gg/ufub68pxDn Discord] </span><br><br><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier, monospace; color:#f0f0f0">Exhausted, you can go no further.</span><br />
<br />
[[Category:Group_Subpages]]</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Liam_McFlear&diff=2412300User talk:Liam McFlear2021-04-07T03:15:27Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* The Dead */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Where to get help / ideas. ==<br />
<br />
Hiya Liam!<br />
<br />
You will find most of the help you need about wiki language at [[Help:Contents]]. This will get you the most info. The one thing it might not cover (or as easyly find) is editing the colour of templetes or coding you've copied.<br />
<br />
'''background:#4AA02C''' or '''background-color:#FFFFF3''' or '''bgcolor="#6495ED"'''<br />
<br />
When you see these codes, they're programing the colour of the background - with the 6 letters and number after the # (known as the hexcode) telling the computer what colour to make it. Just go to [[Help:Web Colours]], choose a colour you like, replacing the hexcode with the hexcode of the colour you want (6 letters / numbers with no spaces) and tada.You've changed the colour to something of your own.<br />
<br />
You should also look at what others have done for their user pages for ideas. Start with other DEM member's if you want: <br />
*[[:Category:MFD Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MPD Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MEMS Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MFU Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MM Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MCDU Member]]<br />
<br />
Your userpage is your own personal space and is completely your own work - so normally people will not edit it. You can do ''almost'' whatever you want on here.<br />
<br />
If you need anymore help, well you already know how to find me. =3<br />
<br />
--'''[[User:Neko|Neko]] 10:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)'''<br />
<br />
==Your sandbox...==<br />
I realized you weren't informed, but your sandbox you created earlier was moved to [[User:Liam McFlear/User Page Sand Box]] (as per [[UDWiki:Administration/Move_Requests#Liam_Mcflear.2FUser_Page_Sand_Box.E2.80.8E|this move request]]). Please keep any personal user pages within the "User:" prefix. Your personal pages would be something like: "User:Liam McFlear/Page Name Here" (Usernames are case-sensitive!). Since you've recreated [[Liam Mcflear/User Page Sand Box]], I'm going to go ahead and move it to [[User:Liam McFlear/User Page Sand Box 2]]. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 01:34, 28 March 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== MCDU Ribbon Template ==<br />
<br />
Causing mischief for the synops already? Lol. =P<br />
<br />
Don't worry only kidding. I should have probably given you some advice / direction so it's partly my bad. One thing though: stop creating so many sandbox pages! Choose either [[User:Liam McFlear/User Page Sand Box]] or [[User:Liam McFlear/User Page Sand Box 2]] and stick with it for now so I know which page to help with / comment on. Keep [[Template:LiamTemplateSandbox]] though as the only way to test a template is to have a page starting with 'Template:' - but your jumping your horses a bit and get a bit ahead of yourself - slow down. XD<br />
<br />
First thing you should do is plan it out a little. Where are you going to have x ribbons, how you going to get all the ribbons on, how do you make it look nice. The best way to do is make it as a normal table on your sandpage - just a normal table. We can worry about turning that table into a template later. It's 2:11 am here in the UK so I need to get to sleep. I've turned the MPD template (from [[Template:LiamTemplateSandbox]]) into a table for you to work with (copy across to your sandbox).<br />
<br />
{| style="border:solid #ff8040 3px; width:400px; -moz-border-radius:6px; background-color:#FfFacd"<br />
|-<br />
| rowspan=2 | <div style="position: relative">[[Image:MPDShRank1.png|MPD]]<div style="position:absolute; left:15px; right:0; top:140px; width:100px; text-align:center; font-family:Bookman Old Style,Georgia,Garamond; font-variant:small-caps; font-size:15pt; font-weight:bolder; color:#E6E6FA; overflow:visible; line-height: normal; background:transparent">{{ifdef|{{{DIS|X}}}|{{{DIS| }}}}} {{ifdef|{{{BADGE|X}}}|{{{BADGE| }}}}}</div></div>|| style="background:#FFFACD; color:#4169E1; font-size: 130%; font-family: Courier New" align="center" width="100%"| '''Cons Name ([[MPD]])'''<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top"|<br />
{| style="background-color:#FfFacd" width="100%"<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:The Weaponmaster Ribbon.jpg|90px|WeaponMaster]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Hand_to_Hand_Specialist_Ribbon.jpg|90px|HandSpecialist]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Fitness_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Fitness]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Sniper's_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Sniper]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Community_Support_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Community Support]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Radio_Operator_Ribbon_3D.jpg|90px|Radio Operator]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Engineer's_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Engineer]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Field_Medicine_Merit.jpg|90px|Field Medicine]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Scientific_Achievement_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Science]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Resident_Surgeon_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Resident Surgeon]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Acquisition_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Mallrat]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Reconnissance Specialist Merit.jpg|90px|Recon]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:DEM_1_year_service.jpg|90px|1 Years Service]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:DEM purple heart ribbon.jpg|90px|Purple Heart]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:DEM Valor ribbon.jpg|90px|Valor]]<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 align="center"|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;font-size:larger;vertical-align:middle;font-family:Georgia,Serif">'''Active'''</span><br />
|-<br />
| valign="top"|<br />
{| style="background-color:#FfFacd" width="100%"<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:CommandStaffRibbon.JPG|90px|Command Staff Ribbon]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:1 Year Service.jpg|90px|One Year Service Ribbon]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:OutstandingValorRibbon.JPG|90px|Outstanding Ribbon]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:MeritServiceRibbon.JPG|90px|Meritous Service]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:RecrutRibbon.JPG|90px|Recruitment Policy Ribbon]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Order Of Malton.JPG|90px|The Order of Malton Ribbon]]<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 align="center" width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Academy grad.jpg|90px|Academy Graduation Ribbon]]<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
In a rush cause of the time so got to do this quick sorry. Things to note / plan:<br />
*You won't be able to use the rank slide images in the template as they arn't going to match the MCDU ranks.<br />
*Make a list of all the ranks in the MCDU so you have an idea later on how many ranks you need to program in.<br />
*Play around to work out the best way to lay out the DEM ribbons and the MCDU ribbons together.<br />
<br />
Will do more tomarrow I mean tonight - got 2 am in the morning and I'm still awake. Stupid facebook chats. --[[User:Neko|Neko]] 02:22, 28 March 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Template:DangerMap<br />
I'm Jayson Exccks. Carrie Cutter, the person cycling the RG theae days, showed me the comment you left praising my "clever way around the law" and piñata-ing Titus at the same time. You know, it's actually nice to find a pro-survivor who agrees that everything is in good fun, you don't see many pro-survivors just out to enjoy every aspect of the game. Anyways, here's to seeing you more around Kempsterbank. Although, to clarify one tiny tiny detail, Jayson Exccks and the rest of [[Organization XIII]] do not exactly clarify as PKers/Death Cultists. We're more what you would call "Population Balancers". We work for whichever side is in the minority as per the survivor:zombie ratio located on the game's stats page. You might be getting killed today, but once that population ratio shifts, you might be finding yourself getting a stick or two from us Nobodies. ;) --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 06:04, 25 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==1/16/2021==<br />
I may have caused a break in the danger map. If someone could point out what I did wrong, I would be happy to learn. {{unsigned|Liam McFlear|22:34, 16 January 2021}}<br />
:It looks to me like changing "safe" to a non-capital letter fixed it! Some of the DangerUpdate system can be case-sensitive but I never remember which parts. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:58, 17 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==The Dead==<br />
<br />
No. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:03, 17 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Though I would just ''love'' to know which ~~recent edit~~ (from 10 days ago) would put me on a ~~restricted role~~ if I were to rejoin a bunch of boot-licking military roleplayers. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:16, 17 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
It is not just you recent actions that would put you on a warning list. I was just reaching out to you to give you the chance to come back to one of your previous way that you played the game. You still have options.<br />
http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Dragonshardz&action=history [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 02:49, 18 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It should be pretty clear that 1. I don't accept your offer B. I have no intention of removing the MCDU tag from Ozzie iii. you ought to stop this silly internet sleuth tough guy posturing because it doesn't fucking frighten me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Haha oh wow that Ozzie vess userpage is cringe. Dragontears used to be a good little survivor boy?!! Toooo much!{{User:RadicalWhig/sig}}18:29, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Oh no, my poor widdle feelings. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:59, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Sorry haha, no, it's just that I realize you clearly overcompensate for your old ways and now lash out and swear at randomly like an edgy anti-everything teen. It finally makes sense to me now. {{User:RadicalWhig/sig}}20:41, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The desperate attempts at psychoanalysis are getting more desperate. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:23, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, Thank you for your honesty Dragonshardz.{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} I would be happy to stop my internet sleuthing. But, I will not stop until Ozzie Vess has removed their tag. Your call. Have a great day. [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 21:19, 24 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VUb_6-XJWQ Are you threatening me?] --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, I am. I won't dogpile on you any more than you are getting right now. But, this is what happens when you are a goon. Everyone will look into your past and pick it apart. You are spicy and I can give you credit for that. But, it sorta looks like your losing control of yourself at [[Talk:Soldiers_of_Confusedmen]]. Dragonshardz,{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} you actively check my pages talk(which I don't delete). I know this because, I have not posted anywhere(other than on MY talk page in the last week) So, this is where I make my thinly veiled threat. You can operate as you are doing now, and I will pop up every once and a while and let everyone know of your pro-survivor past. Or, Ozzie Vess id=1527694 can change her group to something other than "Malton Civil Defense Unit". If this happens I will let the whole matter drop. I will also strike out my comments and put in a word that you are a fair player. [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 01:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Ahahahah oh wow aren't you just precious. So let me get this straight, if I don't do as you demand with ''my'' character, you'll do...what, exactly? Expose my salacious history of ''checks notes'' absolutely nothing that I would care about? Oooh! Or are you going to doxx me over a shitty, dead, bad video game full of Nazis, pedophiles, and tedious pubbie shitfucks like yourself? Either way, do whatever you're gonna do. Drop whatever intel you've got, I dare you, I double dare you. Bluff called. Bitch. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 10:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Awww. Thanks. I am precious. I have attempted to deal in a strait forward manner. What you do with your in-game character is up to you. I am not going to Doxx you. That is unacceptable. I don't want to be doxxed and I would never do it to anyone else. My plan was to point it out in the meta that your in game character is not a part of the MCDU. Because, it is going to come up at some point. You are going to do what [[The Dead]] does and somebody is going to cry "WHY IS THE MCDU ATTACKING ME". I can now point them to my talk page. While you may play in the pool of, quote"Nazis, pedophiles, and tedious pubbie shitfucks", I choose not to, and do not associate with that type.[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 21:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::You are so unbelievably dense it's stopped being funny. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:24, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::It's like beating a dead horse, isn't it. But, I wont stoop to your level. I wont insult you and your insults have no meaning. While you get to rant, rave, post awful things on my page, I allow it. I wont delete your messages, no matter what you have to say. [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 22:39, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm mildly amused that you think "outing" Ozzie as no longer part of the MCDU will somehow affect me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:46, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::: And I am a lonely person, and you keep interacting with me. Which gives me the warm fuzzies, because you care. You are the sweetest [[The Dead]] that I have ever encountered. You called me all these nice things like, quote"precious, Nazis, pedophiles, dense, tedious pubbie shitfucks" Are you sweet on me? Would you like to go on a date? I would take you on a date, if you were up for it.[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 23:02, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::: Aw, shit, she really does love Liam! Best. Soap. Ever. {{User:RadicalWhig/sig}}00:54, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::This has officially gone from bizarre to deeply fucking uncomfortable. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:58, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::Quote"I dare you, I double dare you. Bluff called. Bitch"[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 01:41, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::you fucking twat, don't cross the line [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 02:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::I dared you to drop intel, not jump directly to sexual harassment, moron. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::::[[ZPatriot]] I am not sure what you are referring to. I can be a quote"fucking twat"(I will own that). Please educate me on how asking if someone would be interested in going on a imaginary date with imaginary characters is "sexual harassment". [[Dragonshardz]] thanks for fixing the indents and [[ZPatriot]] missing signature. If you are both referring to my response, it was a direct quote from [[Dragonshardz]]. Again, I would like to be educated on how one person can say something that is perfectly acceptable and the exact same word are verboten.[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 03:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::::You are being a creepy fuck. Imagine going up to a person and saying this "I am a lonely person... Are you sweet on me? Would you like to go on a date? I would take you on a date, if you were up for it." Imagine if it was a co-worker. This is clearly an unwanted sexual advance. This is not "perfectly acceptable," it's messed up, imaginary or not. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 07:15, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[Dragonshardz]], When would you prefer to have a discussion on your talk pagehttp://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&action=history, where you can control the narrative? [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 02:01, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::If it means she wouldn't be softboi sexually harassed, I wouldn't blame them for wanting to control the narrative there. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 07:19, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Let's schedule a chat sometime shortly after the heat death of the universe, creep. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 09:11, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::If you don't want to chat, I won't. I don't go to your places and engage with you. But, you keep coming back and calling me silly things. <br />
::::You really don't know when to just admit you lost, do you? You're like a boxer who keeps getting up and stumbling into a pole. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 03:15, 7 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
As [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] would like this to be analogous to a workplace, the wiki is not that. It is more a school playground, where individuals are still trying to figure out how they are. Boys and girls make any excuse to be around the ones the want to be around.<br />
<br />
{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} you keep coming to my page, What do you want?[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 00:59, 7 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
:To shit all over whatever dreams you have of being an internet badass. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 03:15, 7 April 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Liam_McFlear&diff=2412274User talk:Liam McFlear2021-04-03T09:11:50Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* The Dead */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Where to get help / ideas. ==<br />
<br />
Hiya Liam!<br />
<br />
You will find most of the help you need about wiki language at [[Help:Contents]]. This will get you the most info. The one thing it might not cover (or as easyly find) is editing the colour of templetes or coding you've copied.<br />
<br />
'''background:#4AA02C''' or '''background-color:#FFFFF3''' or '''bgcolor="#6495ED"'''<br />
<br />
When you see these codes, they're programing the colour of the background - with the 6 letters and number after the # (known as the hexcode) telling the computer what colour to make it. Just go to [[Help:Web Colours]], choose a colour you like, replacing the hexcode with the hexcode of the colour you want (6 letters / numbers with no spaces) and tada.You've changed the colour to something of your own.<br />
<br />
You should also look at what others have done for their user pages for ideas. Start with other DEM member's if you want: <br />
*[[:Category:MFD Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MPD Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MEMS Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MFU Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MM Member]]<br />
*[[:Category:MCDU Member]]<br />
<br />
Your userpage is your own personal space and is completely your own work - so normally people will not edit it. You can do ''almost'' whatever you want on here.<br />
<br />
If you need anymore help, well you already know how to find me. =3<br />
<br />
--'''[[User:Neko|Neko]] 10:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)'''<br />
<br />
==Your sandbox...==<br />
I realized you weren't informed, but your sandbox you created earlier was moved to [[User:Liam McFlear/User Page Sand Box]] (as per [[UDWiki:Administration/Move_Requests#Liam_Mcflear.2FUser_Page_Sand_Box.E2.80.8E|this move request]]). Please keep any personal user pages within the "User:" prefix. Your personal pages would be something like: "User:Liam McFlear/Page Name Here" (Usernames are case-sensitive!). Since you've recreated [[Liam Mcflear/User Page Sand Box]], I'm going to go ahead and move it to [[User:Liam McFlear/User Page Sand Box 2]]. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 01:34, 28 March 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
== MCDU Ribbon Template ==<br />
<br />
Causing mischief for the synops already? Lol. =P<br />
<br />
Don't worry only kidding. I should have probably given you some advice / direction so it's partly my bad. One thing though: stop creating so many sandbox pages! Choose either [[User:Liam McFlear/User Page Sand Box]] or [[User:Liam McFlear/User Page Sand Box 2]] and stick with it for now so I know which page to help with / comment on. Keep [[Template:LiamTemplateSandbox]] though as the only way to test a template is to have a page starting with 'Template:' - but your jumping your horses a bit and get a bit ahead of yourself - slow down. XD<br />
<br />
First thing you should do is plan it out a little. Where are you going to have x ribbons, how you going to get all the ribbons on, how do you make it look nice. The best way to do is make it as a normal table on your sandpage - just a normal table. We can worry about turning that table into a template later. It's 2:11 am here in the UK so I need to get to sleep. I've turned the MPD template (from [[Template:LiamTemplateSandbox]]) into a table for you to work with (copy across to your sandbox).<br />
<br />
{| style="border:solid #ff8040 3px; width:400px; -moz-border-radius:6px; background-color:#FfFacd"<br />
|-<br />
| rowspan=2 | <div style="position: relative">[[Image:MPDShRank1.png|MPD]]<div style="position:absolute; left:15px; right:0; top:140px; width:100px; text-align:center; font-family:Bookman Old Style,Georgia,Garamond; font-variant:small-caps; font-size:15pt; font-weight:bolder; color:#E6E6FA; overflow:visible; line-height: normal; background:transparent">{{ifdef|{{{DIS|X}}}|{{{DIS| }}}}} {{ifdef|{{{BADGE|X}}}|{{{BADGE| }}}}}</div></div>|| style="background:#FFFACD; color:#4169E1; font-size: 130%; font-family: Courier New" align="center" width="100%"| '''Cons Name ([[MPD]])'''<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top"|<br />
{| style="background-color:#FfFacd" width="100%"<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:The Weaponmaster Ribbon.jpg|90px|WeaponMaster]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Hand_to_Hand_Specialist_Ribbon.jpg|90px|HandSpecialist]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Fitness_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Fitness]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Sniper's_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Sniper]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Community_Support_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Community Support]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Radio_Operator_Ribbon_3D.jpg|90px|Radio Operator]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Engineer's_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Engineer]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Field_Medicine_Merit.jpg|90px|Field Medicine]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Scientific_Achievement_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Science]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Resident_Surgeon_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Resident Surgeon]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Acquisition_Ribbon.jpg|90px|Mallrat]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Reconnissance Specialist Merit.jpg|90px|Recon]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:DEM_1_year_service.jpg|90px|1 Years Service]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:DEM purple heart ribbon.jpg|90px|Purple Heart]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:DEM Valor ribbon.jpg|90px|Valor]]<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 align="center"|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;font-size:larger;vertical-align:middle;font-family:Georgia,Serif">'''Active'''</span><br />
|-<br />
| valign="top"|<br />
{| style="background-color:#FfFacd" width="100%"<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:CommandStaffRibbon.JPG|90px|Command Staff Ribbon]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:1 Year Service.jpg|90px|One Year Service Ribbon]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:OutstandingValorRibbon.JPG|90px|Outstanding Ribbon]]<br />
|-<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:MeritServiceRibbon.JPG|90px|Meritous Service]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:RecrutRibbon.JPG|90px|Recruitment Policy Ribbon]]<br />
|width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Order Of Malton.JPG|90px|The Order of Malton Ribbon]]<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 align="center" width="70px" height="20px"|[[Image:Academy grad.jpg|90px|Academy Graduation Ribbon]]<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
In a rush cause of the time so got to do this quick sorry. Things to note / plan:<br />
*You won't be able to use the rank slide images in the template as they arn't going to match the MCDU ranks.<br />
*Make a list of all the ranks in the MCDU so you have an idea later on how many ranks you need to program in.<br />
*Play around to work out the best way to lay out the DEM ribbons and the MCDU ribbons together.<br />
<br />
Will do more tomarrow I mean tonight - got 2 am in the morning and I'm still awake. Stupid facebook chats. --[[User:Neko|Neko]] 02:22, 28 March 2011 (BST)<br />
<br />
http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Template:DangerMap<br />
I'm Jayson Exccks. Carrie Cutter, the person cycling the RG theae days, showed me the comment you left praising my "clever way around the law" and piñata-ing Titus at the same time. You know, it's actually nice to find a pro-survivor who agrees that everything is in good fun, you don't see many pro-survivors just out to enjoy every aspect of the game. Anyways, here's to seeing you more around Kempsterbank. Although, to clarify one tiny tiny detail, Jayson Exccks and the rest of [[Organization XIII]] do not exactly clarify as PKers/Death Cultists. We're more what you would call "Population Balancers". We work for whichever side is in the minority as per the survivor:zombie ratio located on the game's stats page. You might be getting killed today, but once that population ratio shifts, you might be finding yourself getting a stick or two from us Nobodies. ;) --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 06:04, 25 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==1/16/2021==<br />
I may have caused a break in the danger map. If someone could point out what I did wrong, I would be happy to learn. {{unsigned|Liam McFlear|22:34, 16 January 2021}}<br />
:It looks to me like changing "safe" to a non-capital letter fixed it! Some of the DangerUpdate system can be case-sensitive but I never remember which parts. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 13:58, 17 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==The Dead==<br />
<br />
No. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:03, 17 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Though I would just ''love'' to know which ~~recent edit~~ (from 10 days ago) would put me on a ~~restricted role~~ if I were to rejoin a bunch of boot-licking military roleplayers. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:16, 17 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
It is not just you recent actions that would put you on a warning list. I was just reaching out to you to give you the chance to come back to one of your previous way that you played the game. You still have options.<br />
http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Dragonshardz&action=history [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 02:49, 18 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:It should be pretty clear that 1. I don't accept your offer B. I have no intention of removing the MCDU tag from Ozzie iii. you ought to stop this silly internet sleuth tough guy posturing because it doesn't fucking frighten me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Haha oh wow that Ozzie vess userpage is cringe. Dragontears used to be a good little survivor boy?!! Toooo much!{{User:RadicalWhig/sig}}18:29, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Oh no, my poor widdle feelings. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:59, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Sorry haha, no, it's just that I realize you clearly overcompensate for your old ways and now lash out and swear at randomly like an edgy anti-everything teen. It finally makes sense to me now. {{User:RadicalWhig/sig}}20:41, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::The desperate attempts at psychoanalysis are getting more desperate. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:23, 20 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Well, Thank you for your honesty Dragonshardz.{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} I would be happy to stop my internet sleuthing. But, I will not stop until Ozzie Vess has removed their tag. Your call. Have a great day. [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 21:19, 24 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VUb_6-XJWQ Are you threatening me?] --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, I am. I won't dogpile on you any more than you are getting right now. But, this is what happens when you are a goon. Everyone will look into your past and pick it apart. You are spicy and I can give you credit for that. But, it sorta looks like your losing control of yourself at [[Talk:Soldiers_of_Confusedmen]]. Dragonshardz,{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} you actively check my pages talk(which I don't delete). I know this because, I have not posted anywhere(other than on MY talk page in the last week) So, this is where I make my thinly veiled threat. You can operate as you are doing now, and I will pop up every once and a while and let everyone know of your pro-survivor past. Or, Ozzie Vess id=1527694 can change her group to something other than "Malton Civil Defense Unit". If this happens I will let the whole matter drop. I will also strike out my comments and put in a word that you are a fair player. [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 01:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Ahahahah oh wow aren't you just precious. So let me get this straight, if I don't do as you demand with ''my'' character, you'll do...what, exactly? Expose my salacious history of ''checks notes'' absolutely nothing that I would care about? Oooh! Or are you going to doxx me over a shitty, dead, bad video game full of Nazis, pedophiles, and tedious pubbie shitfucks like yourself? Either way, do whatever you're gonna do. Drop whatever intel you've got, I dare you, I double dare you. Bluff called. Bitch. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 10:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Awww. Thanks. I am precious. I have attempted to deal in a strait forward manner. What you do with your in-game character is up to you. I am not going to Doxx you. That is unacceptable. I don't want to be doxxed and I would never do it to anyone else. My plan was to point it out in the meta that your in game character is not a part of the MCDU. Because, it is going to come up at some point. You are going to do what [[The Dead]] does and somebody is going to cry "WHY IS THE MCDU ATTACKING ME". I can now point them to my talk page. While you may play in the pool of, quote"Nazis, pedophiles, and tedious pubbie shitfucks", I choose not to, and do not associate with that type.[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 21:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::You are so unbelievably dense it's stopped being funny. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:24, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::It's like beating a dead horse, isn't it. But, I wont stoop to your level. I wont insult you and your insults have no meaning. While you get to rant, rave, post awful things on my page, I allow it. I wont delete your messages, no matter what you have to say. [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 22:39, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm mildly amused that you think "outing" Ozzie as no longer part of the MCDU will somehow affect me. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:46, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::: And I am a lonely person, and you keep interacting with me. Which gives me the warm fuzzies, because you care. You are the sweetest [[The Dead]] that I have ever encountered. You called me all these nice things like, quote"precious, Nazis, pedophiles, dense, tedious pubbie shitfucks" Are you sweet on me? Would you like to go on a date? I would take you on a date, if you were up for it.[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 23:02, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::: Aw, shit, she really does love Liam! Best. Soap. Ever. {{User:RadicalWhig/sig}}00:54, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::This has officially gone from bizarre to deeply fucking uncomfortable. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:58, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::Quote"I dare you, I double dare you. Bluff called. Bitch"[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 01:41, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::you fucking twat, don't cross the line [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 02:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::I dared you to drop intel, not jump directly to sexual harassment, moron. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::::[[ZPatriot]] I am not sure what you are referring to. I can be a quote"fucking twat"(I will own that). Please educate me on how asking if someone would be interested in going on a imaginary date with imaginary characters is "sexual harassment". [[Dragonshardz]] thanks for fixing the indents and [[ZPatriot]] missing signature. If you are both referring to my response, it was a direct quote from [[Dragonshardz]]. Again, I would like to be educated on how one person can say something that is perfectly acceptable and the exact same word are verboten.[[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 03:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::::You are being a creepy fuck. Imagine going up to a person and saying this "I am a lonely person... Are you sweet on me? Would you like to go on a date? I would take you on a date, if you were up for it." Imagine if it was a co-worker. This is clearly an unwanted sexual advance. This is not "perfectly acceptable," it's messed up, imaginary or not. [[User:ZPatriot|ZPatriot]] ([[User talk:ZPatriot|talk]]) 07:15, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[Dragonshardz]], When would you prefer to have a discussion on your talk pagehttp://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&action=history, where you can control the narrative? [[User:Liam McFlear|Liam McFlear]] ([[User talk:Liam McFlear|talk]]) 02:01, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Let's schedule a chat sometime shortly after the heat death of the universe, creep. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 09:11, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
::If it means she wouldn't be softboi sexually harassed, I wouldn't blame them for wanting to control the narrative there. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 07:19, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=2412159User talk:Dragonshardz2021-03-29T03:53:44Z<p>Dragonshardz: bah humbug oversize template fuckery</p>
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<div>{{Talk:The_Dead_(First_Generation)}}<br />
==SCROLL DOWN FURTHER!==<br />
{{Talk:The_Dead}}<br />
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==Resulting from A/VB case==<br />
I've closed the case as not vandalism. I do however consider it important that there are no impediments to you being contactable. Please stop putting redirects onto your talk page, it If you continue to do so you may be submitted for vandalism again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yassuh massa sysop. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Cheers. Also, put a colon at the start of the page, so it's <nowiki>{{:The_Dead/Original_Talk_Page}} and<br />
{{:The_Dead/Talk_Archive2}}</nowiki> and it'll work I think. For some reason the code is different for main and talk pages. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 07:05, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::First; ayy lmao I made someone super mad enough they'd try to make an impersonation alt. Two, it's probably because without the colon the wiki looks for stuff in the 'Template' namespace instead of the 'Main' namespace. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::Ah that makes so much sense. Also, yeah, wow... Actual effort went into that.... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:49, 29 March 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2412157UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2021-03-28T23:57:43Z<p>Dragonshardz: accidentall a letter</p>
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<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
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=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
{{VBtriplebox}}<br />
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==March==<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
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Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the party they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
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I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
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A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
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'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
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Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning&diff=2412156UDWiki:Administration/Vandal Banning2021-03-28T23:57:24Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* User:Dragnshardz */</p>
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<div>{{VBheader}}<br />
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=Vandalism Report Space=<br />
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==March==<br />
===[[User:Dragnshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragnshardz|3eV Impersonation|Perma}}<br />
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Based on IP data & edits, a clear attempt at impersonating [[User:Dragonshardz]]. I've blocked the user based on IP data which indicates they are absolutely not the same user, about to revert the edits (which are all userspace & talk page messages, hence the 3eV), but would love a sysop to double-check me before I block the IP and delete the user/talk/sig pages. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 17:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Sounds good to me. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, all good. Deleted. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As the part they were trying to affect: lmao, owned, idiot. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Dragonshardz]]===<br />
{{v|Dragonshardz|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
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[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411851 Has] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411923 repeatedly] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411937 replaced] their user talk page with a redirect to a group talk page, including after [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=next&oldid=2411798 being told that that is not allowed] as users need to be contactable on their talk pages. Has also done so on [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Fistbump_Jackson&curid=194759&diff=2411941&oldid=2411938 another user's talk page] after that redirect was reverted by <s>me</s> DDR as well.<br />
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I'm not bring Fistbump to A/VB since they only made the redirect once and Dragonshardz did so the second time, but will keep monitoring. <s>How do people feel about me protecting the talk pages in non-redirected state while the case is carried out to prevent an unnecessary edit war?</s> <small>(nvm, see below)</small> (And for reference Dragonshardz currently has two warnings from previous cases, so this would be a 24 hour ban.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 18:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, nevermind on the protecting talk page issue. I'm looking back through precedent and think protecting the page would be self-defeating; I'll continue to revert the redirects, if needed, until this case is concluded. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Per the [[UDWiki:Specific_Case_Editing_Guidelines|Specific Case Editing Guidelines]], ''my'' talk page belongs solely to ''me'', and I can do whatever the hell I damn well please on it. I logically cannot be vandalizing my own property, and the person who would be able to accuse me of "vandalizing" Fistbump's Talk page is Fistbump. Not you. There is no policy on the wiki that requires my Talk page to be "usable to contact" me, or that I cannot redirect it to another Talk page as I wish. In short, go soak your head. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Also, every time you revert my edit to my talk page, I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want, as evidenced by the redirect existing, the change summaries, and my request to RadicalWhig to please not mess with my talk page. He's able to abide by that, why can't you? Or do you simply want to harass me with constant notifications of blank text? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 19:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::To the sysop team: I'm currently collating the relevant precedent to link here. (Also making a longer version in my userspace.) I can't find anything specific about redirects, but there is widespread precedent that User Talk pages must be usable by both sysops and the general community to contact the user, and obstructions to its usability for this are not allowed. Feel free to hold on ruling til I get that together, hopefully in about an hour. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, here it is: There has long been a guiding principle to rulings that user talk pages must be usable to contact that user by both the sysops and the userbase at large, with the sole exception of banned users, whose talk pages are protected. The user talk page is the first stop for anyone discussing edits elsewhere on the wiki. There are innumerable examples of "take this to the admin talk page or your talk page" if you go back through the A/VB and other admin archives. The user talk page is ''the'' place to have discussion, including discussion the user in question doesn't like.<br />
<br />
A user making their talk page unusable is not allowed.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp] Doing so is vandalism if it is intentional, but not if it is an honest coding mistake.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_12#User:Umbrellaemployee_.282.29] This includes to the extent that others may e.g. reduce image size in order to make a user's talk pages useable.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_12#User:Generaloberst] Users can request that their talk page be deleted, but cannot, for example, demand their talk pages remain deleted/uncreated by other users, as they are needed as a point of contact.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_04#User:Revenant] I don't believe a user has previously attempted to use redirecting to circumvent this, but it stands in clear comparison to the prior examples. (This is excerpted from a [[User:Bob Moncrief/Precedent Collation#User Talk Pages|much longer text I just collated in my userspace]] if you want more details.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Neither precedent or principle are policy. Redirecting my talk page to another page doesn't make my talk page unusable. It encourages people not to use it. And again, logically, it is not possible to vandalize something ''that belongs to you''. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Precedent is a big part of how the wiki has operated since 2006. If you're opposed to that, I encourage you to craft a policy proposal that invalidates precedent and requires all policies to be explicit.<br />
::Redirecting your talk page significantly hinders a user's ability to edit or post on it. Also, you absolutely can vandalize your own user talk page, for example by posting something that violates TOS there.[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_09#User:Sexylegsread] {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Also the VERY FIRST CASE you link to in order to back up that your claim that my edits to ''my'' talk page are vandalism was ruled to not be vandalism. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It was ruled not vandalism because the user fixed it before it could become vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Either way it still isn't vandalism for me to redirect my talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:AND that case is about having text or other material outside the normal page area, which is not what a redirect does, so it's not even barely fucking related! --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::It has the same effect of hindering a user's ability to post on your talk page. If anything, making a page a redirect makes it more difficult to do so, especially for those who have less familiarity with wiki operations like the (+) button. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::It requires them to ''click a single clearly visible link'' to go back to the talk page. It's not that hard. {{unsigned|Dragonshardz}}<br />
<br />
'''Not Vandalism''' - Dragonshardz wants to do something with their talk page and clearly believes they have the right to do it. I can't in good faith have them warned/banned right away for something they don't ''realise'' they can't do. However, Bob ''is'' right, user talk pages must be reasonably accessible for the function of the wiki. That essentially overrules talk page rules or any other personal touches one wants to add to their home page.<br />
<br />
Some relevant precedent. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/January#User_Talk:Nalikill_2|A user cannot have their talk page protected for periods that they are actually active on the wiki]], for the specific reason that it their obligation to be contactable if they are contributing to this wonderful website. [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/April#User_pages|Users like Finis Valorum thus needed to request talk page protections only when declaring they were to be absent from the wiki]] and their talk pages would have to [[UDWiki:Administration/Protections/2008/May#User_talk:Finis_Valorum|be unprotected once they returned]]. [[User_talk:Iscariot|Iscariot's talk page]] had [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Iscariot/Archive&diff=1260616&oldid=1253314 stupid rules] in an attempt to literally forbid admins from posting on his page "or he would misconduct them". It didn't work and as I recall he never bothered testing it cause even he knew it was dumb. He removed them a year or so later.<br />
<br />
And there's also the general "function of the wiki" precedents that come into play here. Kind of. [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Prohibiting Content Outside of the Normal Page Area|You can't do certain things on this wiki that make the function of the wiki more difficult for general users]]. [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2015#User:_Revenant|same goes for random crap that breaks basic wiki functions]]. These examples aren't directly related obviously. But they are examples of the Sysop's mandate to ensure the wiki can run smoothly, as it's intended, at the base level.<br />
<br />
Basically, it's unfair to ban you for something you didn't know for sure that you couldn't do. But, like the [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2011_05#DerpDerp|predecent Bob posted above]], now you do. That means if you continue with this edit war I'll vote vandalism next time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Redirecting the page doesn't make it more difficult for general users to leave a message. There's a link right under the title of the page it redirects to that takes you back to my talk page without being redirected. I'm not doing anything that prevents people from editing my talk page, just encouraging them to ''not''. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that it's possible for me to vandalize my own talk page. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Vandalism isn't something that can only occur on some pages and not on others. It's literally just a bad faith edit. It can be done by anyone, anywhere. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::A redirect on a talk page which by {{WIKILAW}} ''belongs to me'' is a bad faith edit based on what policy, exactly? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The creation of that redirect was not vandalism. I said so above. The continuing to do so after being told it goes against the sysop's interpretation of past precedent & policy, is bad faith. Policy dictates sysops are allowed to interpret on a case-by-case basis to this degree. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::There is no policy that I cannot redirect my own talk page, nor is there precedent for this specific issue. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::Exactly. So the decision is 100% up to the interpretation by the sysops as explicitly stated in the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#General_Conduct|guidelines]], my reasoning of which is collated in the above links and examples provided by myself and Bob. You are welcome to your interpretation and it is entirely your choice to push it as hard as you are pushing it. I expect the result of that will be that by the end of this endeavour you will have helped create the precedent you seem so interested in us producing. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm only pushing it because Bob is a tedious fuck who decided that the best way to coerce me into doing what ''he'' wants is making a VB case. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Y'all's argument is the same as telling someone that they cannot paint the inside of their owned home a specific color, and now that they have been told this, they will go to jail if they paint the inside of their house a specific color. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 23:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::All I'm reading here is that you think I should have voted vandalism straight away because that fits the standards of real-life criminal justice more. This is not real life, your talk page is not your house. It's a wiki. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 23:43, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::My talk page is ''my'' talk page. Why is choosing to redirect it to a different talk page such a big fucking deal in the first place? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's not a big deal at all. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::If it's not a big deal, why bother making a VB case about it? Eh, Bob? --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 01:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'm very thankful for this actually as it was a great way to establish a precedent. Sorry you had to be the vector for it, but thanks! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::I didn't '''"have"''' to be the vector for it, you pretentious twat. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::The user talk page is more like the mailbox on the front of your house (which is your userpage) — you own it but legally it has to be functional to receive mail there. And I live in a city where by ordinance our mailboxes have to be one of a specific set of colors (mine is dark green). {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::And in this case, you're the neighborhood Karen on the HOA making a big fuss about my shade of green being oh-so-slightly off. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::There's no policy against being a Karen. ;) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Nobody ''likes'' a Karen, Karen. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 15:20, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I do! At worst I find them entertaining, at best a challenge to out-Karen. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::You find white women who call the cops on Black people for having a cookout ''entertaining''. This explains an uncomfortable number of things about you. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 00:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::That's not what a Karen is, that's called a racist. Or if that's your definition of Karen then I'm definitely not, I think rules-monger is a much more accurate appellation. Also I think this conversation would at this point be better held on a user talk page rather than on A/VB, so will continue on one if you like. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm a-ok with this. Would love at least one other sysop to agree with DDR (not vandalism but this is precedent that you cannot redirect your user talk page going forwards) before I officially withdraw the case. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Imagine spending hors of your free time to scroll back through 16 years worth of vandal banning data just to stick it to someone who doesn't operate their talk page in the way that you want. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 02:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::Ehh, it was only ~13 years and ctrl+f is my friend. But that kind of scrolling is what I signed up for when I applied for sysop. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:23, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* Bob's argument rests on whether changing Dragonshardz's talk page to a redirect makes it impossible (or at least difficult) to contact Dragonshardz directly. However, it takes a single click on <small><font color='grey'>(Redirected from [[User talk:Dragonshardz]])</font></small> to go back onto their page and make a comment, so it's certainly still possible to contact them; it's just mildly annoying and not difficult. Any user is allowed make edits to Dragonshardz's talk page in this manner, and Dragonshardz can revert these talk page edits if they wish. Both of these users can make these edits back and forth endlessly, and neither of the user's edits would be vandalism. If Dragonshardz doesn't want a specific user from using their talk page, they can make an [[A/A]] case. They could also try to make an [[A/A]] case to block any and all users on the wiki from using their talk page, but I don't think an arbitrator would rule in their favour and I'm not sure how such a case would work mechanistically anyways.<br />
* I think a stronger argument is that the redirect could prevent an inexperienced user from directly contacting Dragonshardz, but that's speculative. They may or may not notice the redirect, or understand what a redirect is.<br />
* It matters where the redirect goes to and what is on the page. A point in Dragonshardz's favour is that the redirect directs people to [[Talk:The Dead]], a group of which they are a member (so far as I understand). If the page contained elements that blocked the redirect message, or linked to the main page of an unrelated group (for example), I'd change my conclusion here.<br />
* It's best to not assume that Dragonshardz is being deliberately disruptive. Perhaps they prefer the redirect because "I get notified that I have a "new message" which is something I clearly do not want" (Dragonshardz).<br />
* '''Not vandalism.''' --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I'm glad somebody gets it. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 17:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:I understand this — I disagree in that I do think the redirect click constitutes making it difficult to post on the user's talk page, but I'm cool with this ruling. Before we wrap and so I understand, if a user talk page redirected to, say, [[Talk:Main Page]], would that be obstructive enough to count as vandalism? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 19:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::I probably wouldn't bother ruling it as such, unless it became common for people trying to reach Drangonshardz to post on [[Talk:Main Page]] by mistake. Call it a pointless redirect, in that case {{tongue}}. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
As DDR [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism''', although I will be removing the redirect according to the majority of sysop feedback. Same for Fistbump Jackson. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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===[[User:Bob Moncrief]]===<br />
{{v|Bob Moncrief|Not Vandalism|None}}<br />
<br />
Has repeatedly reverted edits to my talk page despite clear indications that I do not wish for the redirect on it to be removed. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 20:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:My response is basically the outcome of the above vandalism case, so it should be dealt with before this one. Undoing the edits is a basic administrative action to undo vandalism (the redirect) and thus isn't vandalism. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Undoing my edits on my talk page is vandalism, regardless of it being a "basic administrative action to undo vandalism" - which my redirect is not. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 22:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::An unwanted edit to a talk page, even repeated, is not vandalism, and a redirect is not a "message" so I didn't remove anything that isn't allowed (actually required, see above) to be removed. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 01:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At best this is a good faith attempt to revert vandalism; at worst it's an edit war. '''Not vandalism'''. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 13:59, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Not vandalism''' As the Gnome [[User:Rosslessness|<span style="color: MidnightBlue ">R</span><span style="color: Navy">o</span><span style="color: DarkBlue">s</span><span style="color: MediumBlue">s</span><span style="color: RoyalBlue"></span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness|<span style="color: RoyalBlue">l</span><span style="color: CornflowerBlue">e</span><span style="color: SkyBlue">s</span><span style="color: LightskyBlue">s</span>]][[User_Talk:Rosslessness/Quiz|<span style="color: LightBlue">n</span><span style="color: PowderBlue">e</span>]][[Monroeville Many|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]][[The Great Suburb Group Massacre|<span style="color: PaleTurquoise">s</span>]]<sup>[[Location Page Building Toolkit|<span style="color: DarkRed">Want a Location Image?]] </span> </sup> 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
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Closed as '''not vandalism'''. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archives==<br />
{{VBarchivenav}}</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=2412151User talk:Dragonshardz2021-03-28T22:00:13Z<p>Dragonshardz: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{:The_Dead/Original_Talk_Page}}<br />
{{:The_Dead/Talk_Archive2}}<br />
{{Talk:The_Dead_(First_Generation)}}<br />
==SCROLL DOWN FURTHER!==<br />
{{Talk:The_Dead}}<br />
<br />
==Resulting from A/VB case==<br />
I've closed the case as not vandalism. I do however consider it important that there are no impediments to you being contactable. Please stop putting redirects onto your talk page, it If you continue to do so you may be submitted for vandalism again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yassuh massa sysop. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Cheers. Also, put a colon at the start of the page, so it's <nowiki>{{:The_Dead/Original_Talk_Page}} and<br />
{{:The_Dead/Talk_Archive2}}</nowiki> and it'll work I think. For some reason the code is different for main and talk pages. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 07:05, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::First; ayy lmao I made someone super mad enough they'd try to make an impersonation alt. Two, it's probably because without the colon the wiki looks for stuff in the 'Template' namespace instead of the 'Main' namespace. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=2412150User talk:Dragonshardz2021-03-28T21:59:31Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Resulting from A/VB case */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Talk:The_Dead_(First_Generation)}}<br />
<br />
{{Talk:The_Dead}}<br />
<br />
==Resulting from A/VB case==<br />
I've closed the case as not vandalism. I do however consider it important that there are no impediments to you being contactable. Please stop putting redirects onto your talk page, it If you continue to do so you may be submitted for vandalism again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yassuh massa sysop. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Cheers. Also, put a colon at the start of the page, so it's <nowiki>{{:The_Dead/Original_Talk_Page}} and<br />
{{:The_Dead/Talk_Archive2}}</nowiki> and it'll work I think. For some reason the code is different for main and talk pages. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 07:05, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::First; ayy lmao I made someone super mad enough they'd try to make an impersonation alt. Two, it's probably because without the colon the wiki looks for stuff in the 'Template' namespace instead of the 'Main' namespace. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=2412149User talk:Dragonshardz2021-03-28T21:59:18Z<p>Dragonshardz: /* Resulting from A/VB case */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Talk:The_Dead_(First_Generation)}}<br />
<br />
{{Talk:The_Dead}}<br />
<br />
==Resulting from A/VB case==<br />
I've closed the case as not vandalism. I do however consider it important that there are no impediments to you being contactable. Please stop putting redirects onto your talk page, it If you continue to do so you may be submitted for vandalism again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yassuh massa sysop. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Cheers. Also, put a colon at the start of the page, so it's <nowiki>{{:The_Dead/Original_Talk_Page}} and<br />
{{:The_Dead/Talk_Archive2}}</nowiki> and it'll work I think. For some reason the code is different for main and talk pages. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 07:05, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
::First; ayy lmao I made someone super mad enough they'd try to make an impersonation alt. Two, it's probably because without the colon the wiki looks for stuff in the 'Template' namespace instead of the 'Main' namespace. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 21:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardzhttps://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Dragonshardz&diff=2412118User talk:Dragonshardz2021-03-28T04:46:07Z<p>Dragonshardz: lmao well that didn't work</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Talk:The_Dead_(First_Generation)}}<br />
<br />
{{Talk:The_Dead}}<br />
<br />
==Resulting from A/VB case==<br />
I've closed the case as not vandalism. I do however consider it important that there are no impediments to you being contactable. Please stop putting redirects onto your talk page, it If you continue to do so you may be submitted for vandalism again. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig5}} 04:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Yassuh massa sysop. --{{User:Dragonshardz/dragonshardz}} {{Goonsig|Dragonshardz}} 04:41, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</div>Dragonshardz