Fort Perryn/Discussion Archive/Barricade Plan April 2008

Archived from the Fort_Perryn/Discussion page on June 6th 2008 --Mad Dog Munro 02:35, 6 June 2008 (BST)

FPDF Proposal - EHB/VSB Barricade Plan (April 2008)

Note: these proposals have now been in effect at Fort Perryn since April 12th and April 21st respectively, as described on the FPDF barricade policy wiki page. --Mad Dog Munro 03:59, 30 April 2008 (BST)

Background

As of late 2007-early 2008, barricading practice in Fort Perryn has generally been

• VSB at the gatehouse and armory
• EHB everywhere else (Storehouses, Infirmary, Vehicle Depot, Barracks).

The VSB gatehouse ensures maximum accessibility for survivors to come and go when they please (including PKers and GKers) but can also make the Fort an easy target, since VSB gatehouse 'cades are a fairly soft target for zombies. Break-ins are therefore fairly common, and are further compounded by the fact that the gatehouse itself is not a resource building, and so tends to be lightly inhabited by survivors, even during a siege.

In general, the survivor AP cost of building 'cades is less then that required by zombies (or PKer / GKers) to dismantle them, which makes them an efficient form of defense. However, once a break-in has occurred, the survivor AP required to deal with each zombie is disproportionately high - especially once the AP cost of searching for replacement ammo, FAKs and revives, and heals and revives for infected and fallen survivors is taken into account.

Consequently, Fort Perryn has been largely ruined since the second Big Bash came through in 2007. The most recent raid co-ordinated by the Fort Perryn Defense Force (FPDF), in March 2008, was able to hold the fort for only a few days - despite participation from the CDF, BMC and other local survivor groups, and a small advantage in numbers for survivors in the subsequent (but short-lived) seige.

Aims

To help make Fort Perryn a viable, defendable location for surivors again, by shifting the current AP bias of the existing zombie-favourable VSB gatehouse 'cading policy, back in favour of the survivors with a (partial) EHB 'cading policy.

EHB 'cades favour survivors because (as long as no break-in actually occurs), 'cades can be built by survivors more efficiently than they zombies can tear them down. By contrast, once 'cades fall, it costs survivors much more AP to eject the zombie (and replace used ammo, FAKs, syringes etc) than it cost the zombie to simply step inside and infect the occupants.

In the interests of fairness, sustainability and fun, any EHB policy should meet the following criteria.

• 1. Offer meaningful benefit to survivors.

For example, 'cades should at EHB enough of the time to make a difference, and outweigh any AP cost to survivors of destroying them for entry / exit.

• 2. Be self-sustaining and straightforward.

We don't want some complicated system requiring radios, designated meeting points, and changing entry times - because the overhead of managing such a system will take away the fun, increase the chances of excluding people who don't know or understand the system, and fall apart when the admins managing it all go on holiday or lose interest in the game. Let's keep it smart and keep it simple.

• 3. Not be biased towards any particular timezone or day(s) of the week.

Because a survivor playing in another timezone, or at weekends / during the week, is still a survivor, and should be allowed and encouraged to participate. (Heck, we even have some Canadians playing, and who knows what kind of freaky timezone they're on). *grin*

• 4. Not detract from the fun of the game.

Proposal (part 1) - 9 April 2008

Note: this change has now been formally incorporated into the FPDF's barricade policy. --Mad Dog Munro 20:59, 12 April 2008 (BST)

The following proposal is intended to satisfy the aims and objectives above.

• 2 days a week are designated as 'VSB entry / exit days ' - one weekday and one weekend day (say, wednesday and sunday)
• Barricade policy on these days is VSB in the gatehouse, for some designated 24 hrs (say, 00:00 - 23:59 GMT) - This should be enough VSB time to satisfy (3) - the condition of inclusiveness.
• The other 5 days of the week are EHB at the gatehouse. - This should be enough EHB time to satisfy (1) - usefulness..
• We stick to the same days a week, and hours of the day, for our VSB entry / exit times - This should satisfy (2) - simplicity / maintainability.
• Only 'maintenance' that's really required is to ensure we have some suitable spraypaint inside and outside the gatehouse, directing people to the Fort Perryn wiki page explaining the policy (so they know how and when to return).

As an added interest, VSB 'entry/exit' days are naturally likely to attract increased zombie, PKer and GKer activity (as well as an influx of new characters) - creating some added interest for longer term residents of the Fort - thus satisfying (4) - the condition of fun.

Note that the intention here is not to construct an impregnable barricading policy that will eliminate zombie break-ins at any cost. Rather, to adjust our 'cading policy to strike a better balance between defensibility and freedom of movement. And right now, since the fort is more or less in a state of permanent ruin, we don't have a great deal to lose. --Mad Dog Munro 06:14, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Proposal (part 2) - 18 April 2008

Note: this change has now been formally incorporated into the FPDF's barricade policy. Newbies - enjoy! --Mad Dog Munro 02:33, 21 April 2008 (BST)

I suggest the following ammendment to the proposal as it currently stands (and is implemented):

• Infirmary to be kept at VSB at all times. (Currently it is kept at EHB at all times).

Reasoning:

• VSB 'cades at the infirmary allows access for new players who often lack free-running (amongst other skills).
• During periods of safety,
  • this allows new players to gain XP through stab / heal tactics. (Opportunities to gain XP are otherwise rather limited since they are generally limited to the armory and gatehouse only).
• During a seige, this allows new players (who may have limited combat / 'cading skills) to both
  • contribute to the defense of the fort, by healing wounded and infected survivors (requires no special skills)
  • get to the infirmary for first aid if they get infected or injured themselves.
• Overall, this should both make better use of the (many) newer players that Fort Perryn attracts, while also making it a more interesting for them (and increasing the chance that they'll stick around and help).

The disadvantage is that the infirmary becomes a slightly easier target for zombies if there is a substantial break-in, which I think is outweighed by the advatnages above.

Feedback welcomed in the Talk/Discussion section at the bottom of this page. Cheers. --Mad Dog Munro 03:14, 19 April 2008 (BST)

About the proposer

Mad Dog Munro represents the Fort Perryn Defense Force (FPDF), a pro-survivor group run under the auspices of the Cannonball Crew, which calls Fort Perryn home.

Talk / Discussion

Any interested parties, please add comments, feedback and discussion here. Please remember to sign your contributions. Cheers. --Mad Dog Munro 05:02, 7 April 2008 (BST)

I am totally for this. That last occupation was an utter disaster, mainly because it only takes one zombie to take out VSB cades, and survivors cannot always be active to maintain cade levels. By the by, I'm going to do a small experiment in which I, armed with a crowbar, find out what the average AP cost is to take down cades on a building from EHB to VSB and then, once inside, to return them to EHB. This represents a possible method for fort entry, which, if AP efficient, could provide a second workable alternative to the current VSB policy. --User:VI/signature 17:13, 7 April 2008 (BST)

about the crowbar.I always use axe.Sometime i find that axe have a better chance to break the barr.Or the luck factor?Sometime i can use 20 turn with just the crowbar to debarr one level and less than 5 turn using a axe.You can try it yourself.

Haha, thanks for filling the bread basket, i was getting bored up north. Prepare yourself ladies, Bullgod is coming home.--Bullgod 21:31, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Bullgod i thought you are at the south?when did you move to the north?But you the first one we going to kill on the list we have you mark red in the entire crew list.Please come here.All our ammo is reserve for you only.

i was started staying ahead of the Dead when they came to the south so i could find food, ive always been just a bit ahead of them and finally found myself up in Yagoton. i should be back down in Whittenside busting heads and cades in a couple days.--Bullgod 22:17, 9 April 2008 (BST)

About the EHB issue, the reason is simply.If gatehouse is that VSB it will just took one zombie to hit the gate and go inside to say garrrrr to us.It will took 2-3 zombie to take down a EHB unless he very lucky.Zombie can go all the way into the fort when the gate house is broken,thus we needed to spent more Point to clean them out.Which is mabe 3-4 point to find him and 5 point to drag him out.I seen zombie breaking down a VSB in 5 sec many many many times.If you are super active mabe you can stop it however if not ,the chance of him entering the fort is very likely.

Why bother with the gatehouse and armory at all? - if you really want to use some of the buildings just abandon the gatehouse, armory and barracks to ruin. Then camp in the vehicle depot, hospital and supply house. That way those buildings can be EHB with free run access from the barracks - the ones you leave to ruin are pretty much indefensible with the current game rules. Just get your ammo & needles outside the mall - fuel, gennies and FAK's would be available inside.--Lardass 23:39, 8 April 2008 (BST)

• VI - thanks for the feedback. Let us know what you find, although remember most survivors won't have a crowbar, so it'd be interesting to see how much AP it takes without. A fair bit I would expect, so probably not an efficient use of survivor AP since it'll have to be repeated by each survivor in turn. (Also not much fun if you wake up infected from a revive and want to get right back inside - important during a seige).

• Bullgod - the ladies will of course be preparing themselves in the armory as usual (or whatever they do in there all day). Men in the gatehouse. Tastiest brains in the infirmary. Just don't smash the beer please, keeping all those brains fresh and tasty is thirsty work.

the brains will be mine, the beer will be mine, and you can bet your last dollar the women will be mine.--Bullgod 22:17, 9 April 2008 (BST)

• Lardass - completely agree, but if that were all, why bother with the fort at all? We can do that in any factory/hospital in Malton. And more importantly, the gatehouse is where the beer is kept... --Mad Dog Munro 06:00, 9 April 2008 (BST)

I agree, why bother with the fort at all - the current rules make it pretty much indefensible against even a large horde of uncoordinated ferals - and that was even before the last rule change, if you remember the big bash pretty much just chewed right thru creedy, which at the time had huge numbers; and that was right before they completely stalled at Giddings mall. But IF (for role playing purposes i suppose) you wanted to use the fort, use it like a factory/auto repair/hospital complex, not a fort.--Lardass 14:25, 9 April 2008 (BST)

• Nice idea. Perhaps part of the plan should be giving players the moral responsibility to sleep in the gatehouse on the entry days, to prevent more break-ins? And maybe a warning system could also be implemented. Perhaps placing scouts within a 5-block radius on each side of the fort, in a tall building, to check for zombie hordes on the move toward the fort? Members of the FPDF could assign scout teams for each week or half-week. Shifts would change on the entry/exit days, and it would give members of the force a little extra time to spend off-campus (of the fort, that is.) Reports could be recorded within a database for later reference, unless that's getting too complicated. --Catcher In The Rye 18:40, 10 April 2008 (BST)

• Great idea but someone in the gatehouse is too quick to barricade it back up to EHB. I strolled over Sunday morning to find myself blocked out- I made a long journey and have very little AP. Holed up in a building 2 clicks south of the fort but this is not going to work if you have people that are to anxious to rebuild the barricades before the 24 hours is up. --germskr 12:15, 13, April 2008 (BST)

• germskr, sorry to hear you weren't able to get in. Overcaded entry points are a problem in any seige, and Perryn unfortunately will be no exception. Thankfully, these periods were fairly isolated and shortlived (less than 5% of the time from what I saw), as survivors in the gatehouse generally seem to be on board with the new policy, and were quick to take them back down again. Sounds like you were one of the unlucky ones. We did have about 15+ survivors enter the fort during the VSB window today.

The next VSB window is less than 48 hours away so maybe we will see you inside then? --Mad Dog Munro 02:02, 14 April 2008 (BST)

• Catcher In The Rye - well, survivors have a moral responsibility to sleep in the gatehouse everyday, not just on VSB days (although of course it is especially crucial then); we do also have some FPDF squad members on the outside watching the NTs but formal shifts would be making it too complicated (just informing people about, and enforcing, the EHB/VSB gatehouse policy takes a substantial amount of organisation) - and there's not a huge amount we can do about it anyway if a large horde does start coming our way.. except stock up on syringes perhaps. :) --Mad Dog Munro 02:02, 14 April 2008 (BST)

• Shortly after I posted, I took a walk back up and found that the barricades were back down to VSB so I got in. I am concerned however about the number of zeds standing outside and the supposed horde that is just north of Penny Heights. We need to consolidate forces and expect the worst in the next week or so. --germskr 02:09, 15 April 2008 (BST)

• Having been apart of long sieges and short annihilations, I feel only time will tell how well this will work. That said, too many times in this game people have been against any new idea for defence plans. So far this is working quite well, and am anxious to see how it holds up in a prolongued seige. Anybody else interested should come on down and join in the fun. --dumaurier 11:00, 17 April 2008 (BST)

• Please post below with comments on the suggested ammendment to start 'cading the infirmary to VSB. --Mad Dog Munro 03:14, 19 April 2008 (BST)

im against it. get out of my fort. XD --Bullgod 07:38, 19 April 2008 (BST)

breadbasket's overflowing, come in and get it :P --Mad Dog Munro 02:47, 20 April 2008 (BST)

• Perhaps the FPDF should begin calling out to groups of survivors in the area to rally at the fort? It could be an extremely strategic point for holding off the large horde of zombies that is definitely on its way south again, as you can tell from the suburb map. --Catcher In The Rye 01:33, 25 April 2008 (BST)

I strongly suggest that a list of zombie spies, death cultists, and PKers be maintained. Many of them are hiding in Seymour Bank, 1S 1E from the gatehouse. Thanks to the public nature of the VSB policy, it seems that spies are having an easy time getting in, over'cading, vandalising sprays, etc. Also, I suspect that the radio spam is coming from there.Jhonaquiellex Rurik 08:04, 26 April 2008 (BST)

if these so called "spys" were not getting combat revived then there wouldn't be a problem. as it is its just payback, like when we kill one of yours and he attacks us in zed form. pointless really. --Bullgod 19:21, 26 April 2008 (BST)

wow,just wow all you people do is over baricade I will have a good laugh when the fort falls form having no people--Lol2 00:16, 29 April 2008 (BST)

I agree, but the creedy was chewed through because of the new map 1/2 of the defense went to the new map all the zeds got through and we died--Ghdeh1 01:25, 29 April 2008 (BST)

Lol2 - I'm not sure what you mean by 'over baricade' but are you overlooking the fact that barricades are kept at VSB for a full 24 hours every 2-3 days, to admit reinforcements and revived defenders? Since the new policy was implemented, the gatehouse population has more than tripled from 65 two weeks ago to more than 200 survivors today. So your comments don't make much sense - survivors are clearly still getting in just fine (just not the zombies). --Mad Dog Munro 03:40, 30 April 2008 (BST)

Ghdeh1 - try keeping the gatehouse at EHB sometimes (just not all the time - whatever entry / exit system works for you). EHB barricades are an order of magnitude more effective than VSB because it's much, much harder for the zombies to get inside in the first place, and that's when they can really start to drain the defenders' AP; once that starts to happen, you've lost the seige. --Mad Dog Munro 03:40, 30 April 2008 (BST)

The fort will fall. Entropy will make victims of us all Necrodeus 21:17, 7 May 2008 (BST)