Suggestion:20070930 Defenestration- Feeding Drag vs. barricades & tall buildings

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20070930 Defenestration- Feeding Drag vs. barricades & tall buildings

SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:57, 30 September 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type

Skill

Suggestion scope

Zombies

Suggestion description

Defenestration would be a new zombie skill which could be purchased as a "sub-skill" of feeding drag.
Defenestration would allow a new attack type called a "diving drag". Like Feeding Drag, the Diving Drag would only work on survivors who have 12 or fewer HP's.
  • Diving Drag attacks would have the advantage (compared to Feeding Drag) that they would work in buildings that were barricaded to VSB or less- IE, in any building that could normally be exited. In addition, when used in a tall building, both the zombie and the dragged survivor are affected as if they had jumped from the building; the survivor thus would die from the fall.
  • Diving Drag attacks would have the disadvantage (compared to Feeding Drag) that they only work against survivors the zombie had established a grasp on, using claw attacks and tangling grasp. Also, there is a 50% chance when using a Diving Drag that the zombie exits the building (as normal) but looses their grasp and leaves the survivor inside the building.
Suggested update flavor text - in a show of extreme hunger and rage, some of the strongest zombies have taken to making a diving rush out a window after grabbing a struggling survivor. This horrifying maneuver, while not always successful, allows the zombie to bypass blocked exits, and is especially fearsome when the pair exits the upper story of a tall building.

Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped.
# justification ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.


Keep Votes

  1. Author's vote SIM Core Map.png Swiers 17:02, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  2. Keepish - An interesting idea, although I doubt it will be implemented since it reduces a survivors health from 12 to 0 in one move, right?--  AHLGTG 17:31, 30 September 2007 (BST)
    In some cases, yes, though with only a 50% chance of success, and at the cost of moving the zombie outside the building. I'd like to point out that combat revives effectively can deal out just as much damage by killing a 60 HP zombie for 10 AP. Combat revives require special circumstances to work, but so (to an even greater extent) would Diving Drag. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 17:50, 30 September 2007 (BST)
    Seems fair enough. I still think the zombie should die though, unless I missed it.--  AHLGTG 03:31, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  3. Keep - Fun.--  Savant  Chit-Chat  17:34, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  4. Keep - I like this. What else is there to say? --the one, the only, sushiknight (talk contribs HARD E.N.D.) 17:44, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  5. Keep - Sounds like fun. Balance dragging a survivor out of a barricaded building with the chance that you might get stuck outside with nothing to show for it. And it's not hard for a high-level zombie to kill someone under 12HP with or without body tackling them out of a window. --Pestilent Bob 17:53, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  6. Keep. A Zombie brought down the barricades...you hear a loud and low groaning from somwhere nearby...A zombie dragged a survivor out of a window...and again...and again...and again...and again....and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...--Wooty 18:07, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  7. Keep - interesting continuation fo feeding drag --~~~~ [talk] 18:36, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  8. Keep - I like the idea of chucking people out the window. Also, given the massive amount of leadup required (Beating them to drag hp), it can only save a couple of ap, at best. And the zombie ends up outside. --The Grimch U! E! 19:10, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  9. Keep - Not as overpowered as people would portray it. See Grim. BoboTalkClown 20:15, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  10. Keep - good idea. Zombies:Survivor ratio is currently about 40:60. Zombies could use an update that makes their side of the game more enjoyable. --Pavluk A! E! 20:25, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  11. Keep - At first, I thought WHOA OVERPOWERED, but then I thought about it for a second and realized that it wasn't really very powerful at all. Plus, with the disadvantage of being outside a barricaded building still in place if the building hasn't been ransacked or ruined yet, it's definitely a useful, but not ridiculous tool that would be a good addition to a high-level zombie's arsenal. Although I have slight questions about zombies being acrobatic enough to jump out of windows... --Howard Bentley 20:29, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  12. Keep Zombie plauges of terror, picking off weak and injured survivors. I like it.--SeventythreeTalk 21:00, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  13. Keep - Definately a fun skill to have. I'm all for it! --Hhal 21:00, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  14. Keep totally kick-ass--'BPTmz 21:24, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  15. Keep No pain, no gain.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  21:36, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  16. Keep - Like it. --The Hierophant 21:57, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  17. Keep - Mostly because I love the word "defenestrate." You might want to do away with the idea of "diving." It's just to acrobatic for zombies. All they have to do is drag somebody over to the window, then fall over backwards...less running and jumping that way. --Steakfish 00:25, 1 October 2007 (BST)
    I put an idea for a revision/change on the discussion page. --Steakfish 02:24, 9 October 2007 (BST)
  18. Keep - If only because I'd laugh so much every time I did it. Srekto 03:09, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  19. Keep -- Quick! Out the window! --Your friendly neighbourhood psychopath, Lord Evans 03:42, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  20. Keep - Awesome! -- John RubinT! ZG FER 08:02, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  21. Keep - Hell Yeah! --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 09:34, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  22. Keep - Game for survivors becomes interesting :) --Cyrill Shumilyn 10:59, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  23. Keep - Over powered or not, useless or not, I'd still do it for the fun factor. Geronimo!-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 11:11, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  24. Keep/Change - Only if the Zombie dies successful or not and no XP for damage done. - Pardus 11:49, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  25. Keep - I have no idea what the name means, but it gets me vote.--Nikitis 12:16, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  26. KILLMAIMFRAGDEFENESTRATE! It literally means "out of the window" my old dictionary of obscure words defines it as "the art of throwing (somebody) out of a window" See I am not just a piss artist ;) --Honestmistake 14:35, 1 October 2007 (BST) Just noticed that this basically ignores cades.... that is going a bit far, drop it to light cades and i think its a bit more reasonable!--Honestmistake 14:38, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  27. Keep - i like the concept of the idea. --People's Commissar Hagnat [cloned] [mod] 15:46, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  28. Keep - zombies throwing people out of windows? Sounds like fun to me. --Karloth Vois RR 16:04, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  29. Keep/Change- Hey, I wanted something like this! but.. do change the name to something cooler like "Lunging Drag," "Feeding Snatch" or "Drag and Drop." (I was just kidding about the latter)--Vkkhamul 02:38, 2 October 2007 (BST)
  30. Keep/Change I like it, but remove the 50% to do 12 dmg... Or Balance it more (require the High-Dive Drag to have NO Barricades) Oh, and on the point you made about revives, it technically isn't an autokill... it's more of an auto-unkill... ~A`Blue`JellyTME*V*I*L*? 03:35, 2 October 2007 (BST)
  31. Keep - I accidentally voted kill earlier when I meant to vote keep. I guess that means you get to throw me out the window later. My bad. :) --Uncle Bill 06:39, 3 October 2007 (BST)
  32. Keep Feeding drag is basically a kill anyway. Crazylilvietguy 06:02, 4 October 2007 (BST)
  33. Keep - I wasn't sure until you brought up the 50/50 chance. As already mentioned, normal feeding drag is already an almost guaranteed kill, so the dragging out of tall buildings makes practically no difference. The real benefit of this is that it allows zombies to drag a survivor through barricades (which is one of the reasons zombies rarely use feeding drag). But at the same time it is balanced by the fact that there is only a practical benefit to this when the barricades have gone back up, and it therefore poses the risk of forcing the zombie outside empty-handed, where they then have to go through the nigh-invincible barricades again. Risk vs reward. It's got balance, fun, and flavor. --Reaper with no name TJ! 16:32, 5 October 2007 (BST)
  34. Keep this, it's interesting and as pointed out on the talk page, it's not an "auto-kill", but rather same limits as feeding drag, plus is limited in use to NT's, towers, or other 2-story buildings. Also agree with what Swiers pointed out, along with anon. Reaper, and most others above me. If nothing else, I'd at least like to see this go to Peer Undecided over Rejected; this could encourage more zombie players. --Slightly Lions 08:50, 8 October 2007 (BST)


Kill Votes

  1. One Hit Kill Overpowered. Zombies spends an ap to do up to 12 damage, then spends an ap to stand up after dying. I suppose you could make it like the flare gun and give it an ultra low success rate, but right now, it's overpowered. The zombies don't need more help. --MrCoolantSpray 18:04, 30 September 2007 (BST)
    Edit-- Can survivors push zombies out the window too? If a zombie can figure out how to drag my still kicking body out the window, I ought to be able to figure out how to push a corpse off a balcony. --MrCoolantSpray 14:43, 2 October 2007 (BST)
  2. Hurt newbies.--ShadowScope 18:26, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  3. Kill - No auto-kills. --Saluton 19:03, 30 September 2007 (BST)
    1) 50% is not automatic, and the consequences of a "miss" are significant. 2) The target needs to be taken down to 12 HP first, which is far from automatic. 3) Revives ARE an auto kill that do the same damage per AP as this might, but without any location or other conditional restriction (except Brain Rot). 4) Feeding Drag is a death sentence 90% of the time anyhow. The damage from falling is a very minor part of the suggestions real benefit (which is dragging through barricades @ 50%). SIM Core Map.png Swiers 21:15, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  4. kill as Coolent. And you forgot to state that tangling grasp was a required purchase for this skill how would that work? Usually when you need to buy a skill brfore another skill the rest of the skills just "drop down". If not not would you put a warning saying "Tangling grasp must first be purchased." I mean 4 skills just to use this I mean come on. Sockem 20:42, 30 September 2007 (BST)
  5. Kill - Do you not have enough skills already? This just seems way overpowered for the zed. Since you die anyways, whats gonna affect you about it? - BlackReaper 19:32, 7 October 2007 (BST)
  6. Kill - The fail rate is too high, you won't be able to try again, you're going to be kicked out of the building, and all you are doing is a drag but you have a 50% chance of it not working? Pointless.--Karekmaps?! 21:26, 30 September 2007 (BST)
    Really? How often have you been in a seige where the barricades went back up while you were still inside the building? And then you managed to get a survivor down to under 12 AP, but only have 1 AP left? What do you do in such a case? I'd gladly leave the building with that 1 AP, if I have a 50% chance to bring my target with me. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 21:33, 30 September 2007 (BST)
    I've been in that situation many times and it is always the same answer for me, stay in the building and sponge bullets. If the barricades went back up it means active survivors, it also means there are usually active zombies. Better to stand where I am and make them kill me twice. That and you're encouraging zombies to not attack barricades when inside and to not stay inside when they make it in because instead of the numbers growing every time a break-in happens they reduce at a 1:1 ratio. You're skill makes them waste 30+ AP in place of 8 AP under the premise that it's helping, and that's exactly what it will look like, helping.--Karekmaps?! 00:23, 1 October 2007 (BST)
    Kill - This is both well balanced and f'ing cool. I can't wait to start throwing people out the window. --Uncle Bill 23:01, 30 September 2007 (BST)Whoops! Meant to vote keep. I must have been tired or something... (Changing my vote...) --Uncle Bill 06:39, 3 October 2007 (BST)
    OK, then why'd you give it a kill vote?--Jiangyingzi 02:07, 1 October 2007 (BST) Non Author RE.--Karekmaps?! 02:13, 1 October 2007 (BST) Author seconds re and un-strikes. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 02:15, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  7. Kill - Come on! Zombies are powerful enough already, to the point if one shambles inside my building and I'm logged off and alone, I AM GOING TO DIE! Please, to everyone, no more making the zombies more powerful!--Medico 23:52, 30 September 2007 (BST)
    Zombies are powerful enough already, to the point if one shambles inside my building and I'm logged off and alone, I AM GOING TO DIE! I think you just summarized the whole point of the game. But the fact is, it takes several zombies to kill a lone survivor. Do the math- it takes about 35 AP to kill a survivor, and 40 AP to tear down VSB++ barricades. One zombie can't do it. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 02:11, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  8. Kill - Zombies are not acrobats. --Pgunn 01:55, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  9. Kill - It's too good. I would love doing this so much that I'd wind up screwing all the baby zombies in the siege out of the easy XP that Feeding Drag was created for in the first place.--Jiangyingzi 01:57, 1 October 2007 (BST)
    How would you do that? If its a siege on anything but a NT building or a towers, this actually leaves MORE food for the younglings. Its only at tall buildings where the victim dies. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 02:11, 1 October 2007 (BST)
    Point taken. I'm half convinced. It stands to reason, though, that if I can Diving Drag out of a low building then I can do so out of a high building without splattering; would there be an option for that? And per karek, I think the percentage is a little low. Karek also makes a very good point that this will discourage zombies from bullet sponging. For the room, however, I don't think a 12 point zombie attack is too much given the limited circumstances under which it can be used.--Jiangyingzi 02:43, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  10. Overpowered. This is, basically, Feeding Drag through barricades. That it only works 50% of the time is not particularly a negative, IMO.--Pesatyel 03:57, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  11. Change -- I like the concept, but would really like a change in the name, and I think the numbers should be secret to allow internal changes as well. On the whole, It really isn't that nice, however, considering that it kills rather than lets the feral horde eat the survivor. If used in a barricaded building, you either do a one-hit-kill or a death. It's a weak kill, and with a name change it'd be a weak keep. --Karlsbad 04:07, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  12. Kill/Change - Good concept, but it needs work. The current idea is just too overpowered. --Sonofagun18 05:35, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  13. Kill - When used in tall buildings, takes out the most important part of feeding drag (providing brainz for newbz outside) and replaces it with an overpowered 12 HP insta-kill that yeilds 22 XP (with the kill bonus). Zombies are already the most AP efficient attackers, this is just overkill -- boxytalk • 09:38 1 October 2007 (BST)
  14. No insta-kill. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 11:14, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  15. Kill - No, no, no. It's already hard for survivors. --Abi79 AB 12:49, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  16. Kill - Heck no! No Instant Kill, and with the free run nerf, it's already getting harder on survivors. --Tirak McAlister 13:48, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  17. Kill - I'm sorry, I really don't like this one. The whole dieing from being dragged out of a tall building, never mind being dragged out despite 'cades... it's just too much --Ryiis 15:04, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  18. Kill - I don't care for Feeding Drag either.--Actingupagain 20:27, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  19. Kill --Kikashie ELT 02:09, 2 October 2007 (BST)
  20. Kill As Ryiis --Pdeq 04:16, 2 October 2007 (BST)
  21. Kill - Hurts low-level zeds. --Toejam 18:27, 2 October 2007 (BST)
  22. Kill - Oh how I hate voting against a suggestion named "defenestration"... ;P And this is a very cool idea... but... but it's an autokill suggestion. Ok, it's a 50/50 autokill, but if you make your roll then you get an autokill... And a nerfed autokill is still an autokill, sorry. --WanYao 13:40, 3 October 2007 (BST)
  23. Kill - USELESS as it stands. 50/50 isn't worth the risk and utterly useless in a barricaded situation. Only for the zombies in trenchcoats. Slicer 03:19, 8 October 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

  1. Spam Yeah, let's give the zombies even more powers!!11 never mind that, let's make the zombies (which are supposed to work together) more powerful individually! YAAAYYY!! Glenstone 21:47, 1 October 2007 (BST)
  2. Spam -When you can't tell if it's overpowered or under powered, it's as bad as both put together. --AlexanderRM 23:29, 1 October 2007 (BST)



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