Suggestion talk:20080315 Commerce 2.0

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Commerce (updated)

Timestamp:Nathan Blackwell 20:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Type:Feature.
Scope:Survivors and Zombies.
Description:The zombie apocalypse completed hundreds of years of social and economic prophecy, a single culminating battle of proletariat (zombie) and bourgeois (survivor) had ended a system of rampant international capitalism and consumerism. The malls of Malton, while once filled with consumer zombies buying every product shoved down their throats by advertising, are now filled with penniless, yet contented, survivors. There was no money for years, there was no trade. Yet, the beast of capitalism begins to rear it's ugly head.

Advanced revivication technology has led the human-zombie war of Malton into a stalemate. As a result, some sense of modified civilization is beginning to rise from the ashes. Survivors have taken to attributing value to the new coins of Malton...bottlecaps. Using bottlecaps as a base standard of value for useful items, trade and mercantilism is beginning to appear throughout the city.

This system incorporates a trade dynamic with survivors. To trade, a player must use 2AP to 'initiate trade' with another player via an action available with purchase of a 'Commerce' skill (miscellaneous). Then, when the next player logs in they can choose to trade (2AP) or not trade (0AP) with the initiator of the trade. Then when the first player logs in (assuming both players are in the same structure still) he offers his goods (and their 'bottlecap' value is displayed) and 'requests' what he would like in turn (ammunition, etc) of a near-equal value to what he is trading. Upon the next users login, if he has the 'requested' items, he may trade them, if not, he may make a 'counter offer' giving the initial player another choice to accept or deny the trade. At any time, either player can cancel the trade, causing both players to recover any spent AP (assuming they are under 50AP and have not moved or performed any other action since the trade began) Each initial round of 'offer' and 'counter offer' costs 1AP. If the trade is not equal in terms of bottlecaps and bottlecap value of items then it cannot proceed. The 'fair trade' system (as well as high AP and time cost) of trading is designed to discourage cheating.

In addition, players may directly trade bottlecaps for items of value, and some items can ONLY be traded for bottlecaps.

Bottlecaps would be supplemented into the economy in finite amounts, with a set number in circulation at any given time (and only to players who possess the 'Commerce' skill). Players have a limit to the number of bottlecaps the can posess at any given time.

Also, when a zombie kills a player, they are naturally attracted to the 'shiny' bottlecaps, and take a certain percentage (probably a very high one) of whatever bottlecaps the player possessed. This adds a little extra punch, similar to the way headshot effects zombies. The zombies, however, are assumed to drop the bottlecaps, removing them permanently from the gaming. (causing a need for routine supplementation of the economy)

The 'bottlecap value' of items is determined by their rarity (search rates) and their usefulness. Decorations and clothing can also be sold, giving museum-looters their own lucrative business.


Why?


Why does the emerging independent nation of Malton need an economy/barter system? In certain areas where exploration for valuable commodities is impossible, some players could find a lucrative lifestyle in playing 'middle man' to a safe house. For instance, if Player A could several days searching a hospital for First Aid Kits, and then traverse dangerous infested ground to a police station, where Player B plentiful ammunition and little medical care. Player A trades his valuble first aid kits to player B. Player B returns by offering his ammunition, and a few extra bottlecaps for the hassle. Player A has made a profit, and can go on to sell the ammunition (perhaps, even, at the hospital he came from before) and Player B now has the medical supplies he so desperately needed and didn't have the time to earn himself.

Why does puny harmanz trading bottlecaps make the streets better for the new money-less social republic of necro-man? If the new human economy becomes addicted to trade and commerce, zombies will make sport of killing affluent merchants for the sake of spilling their coins into the sewers, never to be seen again. Zombies will find ambushing trade points and established merchants will hinder supply routes to besieged areas and add extra injury to the players.

In short, commerce will add a new level of depth to a game which is already famous for developing player-based internal systems of politics and factions.

Anti Zerging Measures I realize now I was naive excluding sufficient anti-cheating measures before, he I attempt to address them.

1. Trading requires lots of AP for both parties involved. 2AP to initiate a trade, 2AP to accept a trade, and 1AP per round of negotiation, the high amount of time is the first discouraging factor against zerging. 2. The 'Fair Trade' system prevents players from trading bottlecaps and items which have equal value. This makes it impossible for one player to transfer an entire inventory to another character without receiving a fair deal in return. 3. The nature of turn-based trading allows either participant in a trade to cancel or renegotiate the trade at any time

Discussion (Commerce)

Nice try, but one word ZERGABLE, seriously, a zerger could come in, collect a load of 'bottlecaps' then just trade with an alt so they could level up faster, this would also lead to a bit of a problem because there is no way to cancel a trade. For this to work then the bottlecap numbers would have to be huge, they wouldn't be stolen from people (as it's essentially stealing from an inventory). And finally the entire system of the trade would have to be changed. Instead to something along the lines of this:

  1. Costs 1AP to 'make a trade' asking for lets say 1 pistol clip for 10 bottlecaps
  2. The person on the other end would accept trade for 2AP
  3. The initial person would then choose whether or not to accept the trade for 2AP if something had or hadn't changed in their inventory (eg finding a clip).

This 3 step trade thing would mean that either person could cancel at any time. Also to make this less zergable then there would only be 1 trade at any one time involving both people. So if someone had been offered a trade then no other offers would be made to that person. This would be less zergable because it's more time consuming and means a person would have to constantly flick between both accounts. Only when you've changed that to this would you get my vote and even then I doubt it would be perfect. Acoustic Pie 21:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

The Central Executive Committee has decreed this suggestion to be counter-revolutionary and condemns it as such. The zombie outbreak has done what over a century of organised socialist agitation was unable to achieve: the abolition of wage-slavery and exchange-value production... We will never return to capitalism, only onwards in Revolution, not one step back, comrades!

That and, like, zergs and stuff. --WanYao 22:32, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

True with that zerg bit. With enough zergs, you can have an unlimited number of bottle caps in the market. Soon the whole trading system will be unfeasible as even the simplest items like FAKs would have a very high cost due to inflation. --Aeon17x 23:42, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

This would probably be too much hassle for anyone except zergers.--Studoku 00:20, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm with WanYao, never again will the workers of Malton be subjected to the indignities and alienation of a Capitalist exchange rate society! Capitalism has solved the problem of the means of production, now we just need.... er..... zombies? to solve the problems of distribution! Workers of the World unite! --SeventythreeTalk 00:55, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Bottlecaps? WTF? Why not MONEY? Oh, right THOSE get show down, huh.--Pesatyel 03:50, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Love the homage to Fallout, but I honestly think that any "money" or "trade" system is completely unnecessary. ЯЭV⁠€⁠NΛИ 05:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)



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Interesting

I think this is a really interesting idea. With a little improvement/refinement I think it could work.--Airborne88Zzz1.JPGT|Z.Quiz|PSS 20:11, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


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