Suggestion talk:20080521 Fort Gatehouse Tower View

1. Spam - To point 1 of benefits: Radios and communication. Stepping outside the fort and looking around. point 3: Binoculars are flavour, not super duper gear. Point 4: See response to point 1. Your understanding of the game is demonstrably weak, and its a senseless uneeded buff to forts, the trenchcoat capitols of Malton. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 05:14, 21 May 2008 (BST)

   Your own prejudices against a particular subset of UD players (i.e., "trenchcoaters") are really quite irrelevant to the merits of this suggestion. And no one is saying binocs are "super duper gear". But they are most certainly functional and useful items -- albeit specifically limited, i.e. you can't see dead bodies or contacted zombies or specific 'cade levels. This suggestion in no way buffs those limitations. Wondering... is your understanding of the game getting a little, ahem, weak??? .... --WanYao 12:13, 21 May 2008 (BST)

   Thou shalt learn to read. Its a needless buff to forts, which are already pretty damned strong. The rest are countering examples from her advantages list. The fact that forts are trenchie congregation points has nothing to do with my arguments, except that i thought it to be a fitting label to use to describe such locations. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 12:52, 21 May 2008 (BST)

   Forts are great positions to defend at, but are run by mostly idiots, so I don't agree with the "dammed strong" part. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:45, 21 May 2008 (BST)

1. Spam - I can see this being useful for about 1% of the survivor population. -- LABIA on the INTERNET ^{Dunell Hills Corpseman} #24 - |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ^TMG 09:02, 21 May 2008 (BST)

   Considering the # of players who dwell inside Forts, your comment is off-base. And certainly not valid justification for a spam vote. --WanYao 12:13, 21 May 2008 (BST)

   Considering the number of retards who drool inside Forts, my comment is accurate and valid justification for a spam vote. -- LABIA on the INTERNET ^{Dunell Hills Corpseman} #24 - |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ^TMG 22:20, 21 May 2008 (BST)

   More people have to learn that Spam votes are not 'Strong Kills'. And Gardenator, I believe WanYao is saying that since Forts often have upwards of 300-400 survivors in them, and usually more in the surrounding area, it's useful to more than the "1%" of the survivor population you stated. Your reasoning is faulty, at least as a 'spam' vote. --Tselita 10:30, 22 May 2008 (BST)

1. Kill Gives Fort Dwellers an idea of the zombie numbers in the extended surrounding suburb squares of the fort. You mean only in one direction right? As the rest of of the gatehouse would be in the way on 3 sides.

Also. You can leave the fort, you do know that? Scout around and then come back. Maybe we should put a note on the top of the two fort pages about that? Save no end of problems with people thinking they can never leave. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:49, 21 May 2008 (BST)

Not exactly .... I am not a fan of Forts, or of many of their roach-like denizens ;) ... but some of the opposition to this suggestion is just silly-rabid. First, the Gatehouse can only be re-entered if it's VSB or lower. Overbarricading of the Gatehouse is very common... And what about exiting? See that's where I am confused, I thought you couldn't exit if it was over VSB... Hmmmnnn... And you'll notice that Fort Perryn now has a new policy: for security, I presume, the Gatehouse is VSB only two days of the week or something... Check it out. Anyway, there is nothing unrealistic about being able to look outside the Gatehouse. Gatehouses have peep holes and parapets and such for exactly this purpose. And, yeah, the effect would almost "halved" since to one side you'd just be looking at the Fort itself anyway. IMO this is really isn't that much of an overpowered buff to Forts... People do binoc scouts for other places all the time, why shouldn't forts get the same benefit? But if you do think it is overpowered, okay, argue that... and explain why... don't use some unrealistic "not realistic" argument, or just say, "screw the trenchies"... My 2-1/2 bits worth. --WanYao 18:45, 21 May 2008 (BST)

im just bitter someone struck my vote. because it had a paragraph in it.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:00, 21 May 2008 (BST)

Recast yer vote. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 01:51, 22 May 2008 (BST)

General discussion

What's with the spam votes?? Get a grip. And learn the mechanics, people. Tselita has confirmed my suspicion that you can't leave the fort if it's above VSB. Which means that there is no way to determine zombie numbers if the fort gatehouse is locked! Which means there is no way to know what you're dealing with outside, other than by maintaining radio/mobile/metagaming contact with people outside. In any event, this requires a pretty stiff amount of metagaming to make work, and forcing people to meta is kind of a no-no for suggestions... Also, in any event, the suggestion wouldn't let fort-dwellers see the # of zombies at the gatehouse: that is not how binoculars work... Again, get a grip, people. This suggestion is not broken. --WanYao 09:37, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Its impossible to leave the fort in the gatehouse is EHB? Have you, perchance, considered lowering the cade levels to VSB with a crowbar or axe? Have you considered minor in game coordination, having a small group of people stationed outside the fort acting as forward scouts, using the radios or, heavens forfend, mobile phones to communicate zombie movements to the people in the fort? Its quite easy to scout outside the fort if you want to put even the smallest iota of effort into it, and personally i think you should. Consider such difficulties with scouting to be part of the weaknesses inherent in setting up shop in a fort and deal with it, instead of moaning on suggestions wanting a way to remove it. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 09:44, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Okay - answering Grim's questions one at a time:

• 1) lowering cades to VSB both defeats the purpose of why they are at EHB in the first place (according to the Fort Perryn wiki entry, it's apparently to keep spies and GKers/RKers out, or at least limit them), and also can be almost impossible when you're a survivor inside vs other survivors cading up. Survivors are good at cading. Bad at de-cading.
• 2) Your 'minor in game coordination' would be insanely difficult compared to a simple use of a binocular, plus not as up to date with the information. And yes I'm sure you can do the same with alts.... but that's multi-abuse and you shouldn't encourage it.
• 3) Maintaining those radio/cell phone contacts would also involve a lot of metagaming to coordinate it. This suggestion allows you to do the same thing entirely in-game. In-Game communication methods should be encouraged over methods that force metagaming for it to be effective. --Tselita 10:24, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Or how about keeping a life cultist or two inside the gatehouse to temporarily lower the cades when needed? I'm not sure if the trenchies could deal with the idea of allowing a zed inside though. --Explodey 14:55, 22 May 2008 (BST)

That seems a lot like multi-abuse potential. Not to mention that fort-dwellers, especially the more trenchie ones are ... rather paranoid and will kill any zed inside rather quickly. No reason for them to believe a life cultist is actually a life cultist and not a spy. Binoculars work better overall for this purpose. --Tselita 15:14, 22 May 2008 (BST)