Suggestion talk:20090411 Music! Music! Music!

YES YES! XXX stabs you with a flute for 1 damage. XXX bashes you over the head with a violin for 2 damage. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 04:46, 8 April 2009 (BST)

I actually wasn't going to take it there, but I'm open to suggestion... CaptainVideo 04:54, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah but hitting someone with the violin is the best part about it... right? What else does a violin do? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:05, 8 April 2009 (BST)

I've heard that dulcet tones can be conjured from it, but I have never been able to do so myself. Striking someone with it does have a certain appeal. How many times could you do that before it broke? -CaptainVideo 05:07, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Oh, why not? Glenstone 05:21, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah! HIT THEM! Player XXX slams Zombie XXX in the PIANO! KILL WITH INSTRUMENTS!! Sorakairi 13:45, 17 April 2009 (BST)

I support this because you'll only find them in non-TRPs (save forts - where specifically in forts?) that wouldn't normally be searched for vital gear. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 05:54, 8 April 2009 (BST)

• Barracks. You know, with personal stuff. -CaptainVideo 01:49, 9 April 2009 (BST)

• Oh, that would just be the harmonicas. The brass instruments are from the military band, and would be found in the storehouse. -CaptainVideo 01:51, 9 April 2009 (BST)

So, it works almost like firing off a flare gun, but it gives a tiny bit of XP to survivors? No thanks. First, as a zombie, the last thing I want while wreaking havoc upon the city is a serenade from the New York Philharmonic. Second, this would lead to idiotic survivors running up to zombies and using it as a tool to taunt them, damaging the mood of the game for zombie players. Third, I'm not all that fond of most music. Fourth, this stuff about it being heard for up to 6 blocks around like a groan would lead to a positively nauseating prevalence of sound pollution as survivors stroke each others egos and toast each other with beers. Fifth, it's just another thing for survivors to do instead of interacting with zombies, another way to edge the game closer to being a damned chatroom. In all, sorry, but no.--Necrofeelinya 06:38, 8 April 2009 (BST)

My opinion? Ditch the XP value and/or make it so that you can only use SOME of them as signalling devices (really, a flute isn't THAT loud). --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 06:50, 8 April 2009 (BST)

I still wouldn't like it. And just another point about the XP, anybody wanna compare the rate of proposed XP gain to the rate at which zombies get XP for taking down 'cades? It ain't pretty.--Necrofeelinya 06:56, 8 April 2009 (BST)

I do agree that this would lead to excessive noise pollution, having said that... Will people stop whining about "Zombies Vs 'Cade XP", that's completely unrelated to this. It's not an argument against every survivor based skill that yields XP. If it's such a problem help find a solution as opposed to whining. In fact here's one! --Kamikazie-Bunny 16:08, 8 April 2009 (BST)

If a lot of people are whining, that's an indication that something's wrong. Also, survivors have plenty of ways to gain XP. Piling on more while leaving zombies w/out other ways leads to game imbalance, and survivor's methods of gaining XP should be geared toward promoting interaction with zombies, not sitting in a room diddling their flute. And I looked at your suggestion, and my opinion of it is so unfavorable as to lead me to refrain from commenting on it unless I can gather the language to express the depth of my disfavor without offending.--Necrofeelinya 23:31, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Kamikaze-Bunny is the one calling you a whiner; I, Captain Video, am the one who suggested this. We are not the same individual. That being said, this isn't something you would do to get XP, XP is a reward you'd get for something predominantly added for flavor. 1XP point for every five pieces of music would mean that you'd get 2XP for every ten and 10XP if all you did all day was play music. You'd need to do nothing - including moving around - but play music for ten solid days to buy a skill. That's not unbalancing the game. -CaptainVideo 01:37, 9 April 2009 (BST)

I know that, that's why I responded to his comment about whining by posting underneath and slightly to the right of it. I don't know why you would think I've mistaken the two of you. And I know that survivors have better ways to earn XP, and that you're just trying to promote this by making it rewarding. My point is that I don't want to make it rewarding, don't want them doing it at all, because it's annoying. It just means another feature for survivors, another little toy to play with, and a mood-busting one at that, while the zombie character class stagnates. And as far as the XP comparison, it's just an aside to point out that 'cade bashing is no easier a method of gaining levels than your idea of sitting around making noise all day. I'm not implying your idea is a game-breaker in terms of XP gain, but it sure is in terms of the general feel of the game. Keep in mind other players' attitudes toward what they want in a zombie apocalypse. For that matter, keep in mind that this IS a zombie apocalypse. Wandering minstrels seem a bit out of place.--Necrofeelinya 03:40, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Necrofeelinya said:

It just means another feature for survivors, another little toy to play with, and a mood-busting one at that, while the zombie character class stagnates

And you can suggest getting drunk and high in a serious manner?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 19:09, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Yep, and you'll notice that I include exclusively negative effects for doing so. I'm not trying to glorify either, just tempting people to put themselves at a disadvantage through self-indulgence. As it stands, characters use beer in a way that glorifies alcohol abuse, and I'm suggesting providing consequences for that. The "joint" suggestion has no beneficial game effect for the user, it just adds flavor to the game while making the user a sitting duck for any attack. One could argue there are moral lessons to be learned from it, but I'm not enough of a B.S.er to get on that high horse, I just like killing stupid harmanz who get too cozy during a zombie apocalypse.--Necrofeelinya 19:51, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Okay, glad we got that out of the way. However, I'm going to have to say that I'm going to try and have fun even if you, as a zombie, can't. -CaptainVideo 05:47, 9 April 2009 (BST)

I agree it's not quite right. But that doesn't mean you should say no to something else. If barricades are broken and survivors had 1000 ways to gain XP it wouldn't be any different. It just means survivors have more ways, it doesn't mean survivors will gain more XP, all it does if gives them more choice on how to spend AP. I think CapVid got confused because you were talking about MY suggestion in HIS discussion, feel free to be offensive if you can't think of the words to explain why you don't like a suggestion, but do it in the right place... --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:01, 9 April 2009 (BST)

I demand a bass guitar on that list too! Anyways, sounds like fun. --Johnny Bass 17:17, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Ask and ye shall receive -CaptainVideo 06:39, 9 April 2009 (BST)

If you put a piano in the church as a stationary thing, it'd make the dam place useful! I'd personally make a fort in a church just for the piano. :) --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 19:13, 8 April 2009 (BST)

And an organ in Cathedrals? yesyes.--Idly Hummingbird 22:22, 8 April 2009 (BST)

So, there'd be a "play piano" button in churches? -CaptainVideo 01:37, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, that's what I've decided to go with -CaptainVideo 06:39, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Only Pkers would use instruments - it'd be a way of leading zombies to targets. --A Big F'ing Dog 19:17, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Right, because bored survivors don't sit there and fire off flares all the time. Only a fur-trenchie (:P) would jump on the anti-pker train with something as simple as music amirite?--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:13, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Couple things - PKers =/= Death Cultists (though they both like to see people dead), for one. Two, you do have a valid point that these are like infinite-use signals - maybe have them have a devilishly short (1-block, 3x3 total area) range? Thirdly and finally, I bet most death cultists would rather just metagame to get that info across. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:27, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Limiting the range is a definite plus idea, but we could always just make it so those in the same block as you are the only ones to hear it. Dunno. I just want sum music to waste my Cultist's AP on. The sad thing about the signal comment by Dog is that we'd mostly use them for actual fun, not to lead people. Most Cultists and Pkers have more class then something like 70 percent of survivors. Close to 3.5 years of experience with this game shows me that. :'( --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 23:00, 8 April 2009 (BST)

*Smashes guitar on the floor, pisses on it, and sets it on fire, attracting a large undead crowd of Jimmy Hendrix fans*. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:54, 8 April 2009 (BST)

Simmer down, simmer down - This is more interest than I had expected, but that may be good. Derived from the above conversation, what are your feelings on the following properties for musical instruments:

• 3x3 grid range for music played outside; music played inside does not carry
• Is everyone cool with the portable instruments I've listed? Does anybody want to add/remove anything? I'll get to search return values soon. Bass guitar will be added to the list, as per request.
• Play an instrument and you stand a 20% change of being awarded 1XP point. I feel this will encourage people to play, but will not mathematically unbalance the game. Just another thing - like talking, or graffiti - to do when you're bored.
• There will also be stationary instruments (pianos in churches and organs in churches); thanks for the idea, guys. My stipulation is that organs - which require either an air compressor or an electronic synthesizer, depending on the type - will only work if the building has power. Indoor instruments yield the same XP and cannot be heard from outside.
• I'm presently unwilling to give instruments combat capabilities. Tempting, yes, but I want to keep this idea simple for now. Feel free to suggest that idea if this one passes. God knows I'd vote for it.

How does that sound so far? Search return values are next. -CaptainVideo 01:52, 9 April 2009 (BST)

What kind of Saxophone? A tenor is heavier than a trumpet, I'd reduce the encumbrance to 10% for a trumpet. Violin seems a little high as well. Trombone should be the same as a tenor sax. Guitar, I don't know, never touched one. I'd also chop down the search rates a little bit across the board.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:02, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Why thankee for the neat table Mr Gnome! I personally think a bar or two should have a piano in it, some of the classier ones around here do!--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 03:32, 9 April 2009 (BST)

That wasn't me, but the author. But I'll take the complement and make one in return: you have, um, lovely hair. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:37, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Good to know about the saxiphone; what would you recommend? As for the violin: I based that not on weight but bulk. You can't just stuff a violin into a bag, you'll break it. If you don't think that's such a good explanation, though, what would you recommend for encumbrance instead? -CaptainVideo 04:05, 9 April 2009 (BST)

A tenor is what people think when they hear saxophone, go with that. I'd go with 15% for a violin, though your explanation makes since I suppose. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 05:02, 9 April 2009 (BST)

How about 10E for a saxophone, then, and 15 for a violin? -CaptainVideo 06:39, 9 April 2009 (BST)

I don't know if we're assuming that these instruments come with cases, but if they do, I actually say 15E for the sax and 10E for the violin (they are very portable inside a case). I also think 10E for the trumpet, as they are much easier to carry around than saxophones with or without a case. (Lighter weight, smaller, easier-to-hold shape...)--Idly Hummingbird 18:49, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Trumpet value changed accordingly. -CaptainVideo 19:42, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Son of a bitch you two are conspiring to confuse me aren't you? Placing sigs and stuff in a way to mislead me! I should ban you both! :) . You really think my hair looks good? I've been doing something new with it! (Sad thing is, that's true. Spikes can be fun when you're dying of boredom...)--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 05:11, 9 April 2009 (BST)

• Your hair does look nice. It's better to dye of boredom than die of boredom, after all. -05:44, 9 April 2009 (BST)

If this goes through, can we pick one mall and give it a music store? ~ extropymine ^{Talk | NW | 4Corners} 06:25, 9 April 2009 (BST)

• If you think we could get that legislation through. I'd like it. -CaptainVideo 06:32, 9 April 2009 (BST)
  • I would personally start a group called "The Musicians' Union of Malton" defending that mall.--Idly Hummingbird 18:49, 9 April 2009 (BST)
    • Okay, but I'm counting on you guys to show up and vote when this goes to the next level :) -CaptainVideo 19:42, 9 April 2009 (BST)

This is much better with the range reduction, reduce the XP% to 10% and it's got my vote (either way I'd vote keep but mention it in my justification). Could I request a harp... --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:07, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Where would you find it? I actually thought of harps before almost anything else, but you don't really see them around that much. Also, what would encumbrance be? -CaptainVideo 17:53, 9 April 2009 (BST)

We should also have tubas in there. About 40% encumbrance sounds right. It would be found in schools and maybe churches, I suppose.--Idly Hummingbird 18:49, 9 April 2009 (BST)

• Nobody is going to want to deal with an instrument that weights that much. Sorry. -CaptainVideo 00:24, 10 April 2009 (BST)

I know a few of us here at The Kilt Store would love to have the bagpipes in there. You could possibly find them in a fortress barracks at 4% and Malls at 2%. Encumbrance would be 15% because they are light and deflatable. Conner Martel 18:56, 9 April 2009 (BST)

• Done -CaptainVideo 00:24, 10 April 2009 (BST)

Mall Stores - Someone User:Extropymine suggested a musical mall store. I figure that all malls should have music stores. However, to keep it from being too easy, the return for instruments in a mall store will be very low. 2% for guitars, 1% for everything else - but no zoo kazoos, wooden train whistles or stationary instruments. Your thoughts? -CaptainVideo 19:42, 9 April 2009 (BST)

By the way, I've been keeping track. So far, your best odds of finding a portable musical instrument (of any kind) are in a school, at 17%, and a music store in a mall, at 16%. Again, these values seem very reasonable to me. -CaptainVideo 19:42, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Would these be re-usable, or would they disappear (like Books and Poetry Books) after use? And why wouldn't Drums be found in a Fort? Isn't that the one thing Marching Tunes are made for? Also, as a Philosophe Knight, I whole-heartedly support this. We needed this back when the Shambling Crooners were about. Zambahz Z!NG!NG, Dancing, and an accompanying band? Oh, I think so. --DT^PK 19:52, 9 April 2009 (BST)

I hadn't thought of drums for that. I'll change it. And yes, instruments would be permanent. Books only vanish because you're "done" with them. Instruments, like weapons, have potentially infinite usefulness to someone who wanted to play. -CaptainVideo 21:00, 9 April 2009 (BST)

I think that all mall stores have music stores anyway, but it would be up to kevan, whether he wanted to implament 1 store at a single mall, or put music stores in every mall. Also on a side note, what type of message would be generated when someone plays an instrument? Would it be something like this?

Inside the building of origin: "XXX played a Guitar" or "You played a Guitar"

Outside: "You hear the playing of the Bagpipes from nearby" 37 minutes ago

Or would you include the directional distance of the 3x3 as well? Conner Martel 20:23, 9 April 2009 (BST)

It would be directional. "You hear the playing of the Bagpipes coming from the north-west." -CaptainVideo 21:00, 9 April 2009 (BST)

Go out and find 21 friends. Summon these friends to you and go for a field trip at 4am. Head down to your local mall. Keep 20 friends with you and send a single soul to the far side of the mall. Now play a kazoo towards these 20 friends and see if the one guy on the far side can hear it. Even with the nigh on silence that you'll get at that time in the morning, there is no way a kazoo will reach across your local mall, let alone the equivalent of six game blocks. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 04:11, 10 April 2009 (BST)

The suggestion has been modified so that the range for instruments is now a 3X3 grid. Of course a kazoo wouldn't carry across six game blocks. Now it can only hum its feeble, dulcet tones to people in the immediate area. All the other instruments are also temperate in volume, and things played inside won't carry out. So, yes, you would be able to hear someone playing a kazoo on the far side of the mall. -CaptainVideo 07:30, 10 April 2009 (BST)

(Comment from talk page, in response to Midianian's Kill vote) I dont know in Land Of The Dead there is a zombie brass band (albiet rather lousy but still there) --Alex1guy 10:05, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Dupe

Rosslessness said:

Dupe of Suggestion:20071027 Instruments

Yeah, but this one has some nice updates and differences.. :(

Besides, hell. 32 keep votes.. --Janus ^talk 23:43, 13 April 2009 (BST)

I believe the differences are more than large enough for this to not be considered a dupe. See main page. -CaptainVideo 00:08, 14 April 2009 (BST)

The only major difference I can see is that you can spam the music over a larger area, and there is no ignore option on this "new improved" version -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 03:17 14 April 2009 (BST)

This one gives you xp, has different instruments, different flavour, different search rates and a few minor things. Hardly a duplicate. Duplicates should be duplicate to be duplicates. :P--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:28, 14 April 2009 (BST)

You're not the only one. Besides, there's one HUGE difference. I voted keep this time. :D--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 02:46, 14 April 2009 (BST)

I did too! --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 02:47, 14 April 2009 (BST)

	Mob Rulz!
	This user is proud to be one of the mindless herd that inhabits the Suggestions page.

Baaaa! :P -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 03:17 14 April 2009 (BST)

Fails to pass as a DUPE under Dupe:Cat. 1 Confirm that there are absolutely no viable differences between the original and the duplicate. There appears to be differences..enough to matter anyway. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 04:03, 15 April 2009 (BST)

From Voting

1. Dupe of Suggestion:20071027 Instruments --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:02, 13 April 2009 (BST)

   I disagree. Although the basic idea - finding instruments and using them - is the same, the use of the instruments is dramatically different on many different levels. Therefore, this is not a dupe, which is defined as a "suggestion was an exact duplicate of another suggestion already made (or close enough to have no significant differences)." -CaptainVideo 00:06, 14 April 2009 (BST)

   As stated above I believe it is a dupe. As "The basic idea -is the same" that is my opinion. And why are you bolding this is not a dupe? I thought you already had your vote? Does this mean I can say Misconduct, vandalism and or WTF Centaurs?--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:21, 14 April 2009 (BST)

   I've sent for an arbitrator. This complaint should be resolved soon. -CaptainVideo 00:26, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   You can still call it spam but its Different enough in scope to not be a dupe. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 02:45, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   And Iscariot its not a RE: Its a statemnet as a sysop and arbiter requested by teh author of teh suggestion. If you don't like it take it to arbies. and I Do love how you claim to speak on the basis of consensus but when +75% of the voters like a suggestion you are all ready to jump on that tyranny of the minority. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 03:20, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   I don't know, but the author can validate a non-author RE, anyways. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:33, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   Oh looky it's a sysop, go right ahead and break the rules please! And an arbiter of what? I see nothing of this on a/a...--xoxo 03:42, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   Look harder. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:44, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   There are currently no cases under consideration. I refuse on principal to look any harder.--xoxo 03:46, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   His written as an arbiter on the list of arbitrators, smart ass. I wouldn't call it relevant, since discussion should be held on the talk page anyways.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:49, 15 April 2009 (BST)

   Oh that's what he meant. How totally irrelevant to anything. I'm totally using my sooper exclusive arbiter status to allow me to break rules in the future :D --xoxo 06:51, 15 April 2009 (BST)

Fails to pass as a DUPE under Dupe:Cat. 1 Confirm that there are absolutely no viable differences between the original and the duplicate. There appears to be differences..enough to matter anyway. Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 04:03, 15 April 2009 (BST)

Not to mention it only has 2 Dupe votes at the moment... J3D's is spam. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 10:49, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Oh look, I didn't see Iscariots. Never mind then. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 11:03, 17 April 2009 (BST)

Arbies?

Over a dupe vote? Interesting. I'll tell you what. If I get enough people to agree with me, then I manage to overturn the huge number of keep votes, and then another user cycles this as a duped suggestion then I could understand it. I really don't see the point of a case at this point.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:53, 15 April 2009 (BST)

That could be an interesting way to alter the dupe vote (the asking keep voters what they think not the arby case). The way it stands at the moment, the wording pretty much says that 3 dupes can take down a suggestion regardless of the number of keeps. It might be an idea to set up a vote on the talk page for Dupe and Not Dupe, you give it 48 hours or so to get a decent chunk of people voting and which ever has the most votes "wins" so to speak.

For example: Bob suggests Suggestion A. So far 7 people have voted then Bill comes along and thinks this is a dupe of suggestion B and votes as such, providing a link. Two more people vote dupe and a Dupe/Not Dupe vote is set up. After 48 hours, 6 people think that A is a dupe of B and as such it is removed from voting.

This should only apply if there are a decent number of keep votes (say at least 5 keeps discounting author vote) so that we can get the blatant copy paste jobs out sharpish. What do you reckon? -- Cheese 10:14, 15 April 2009 (BST)

its been discussed, although I can't remember where. But then likewise dupes have gone to arbies before. I think the last one was burnt out cars or the like. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:56, 15 April 2009 (BST)

It would result in popular suggestions being almost immune from duping, and free to be suggested time and time again with only minor modifications... funnily enough, just like this one -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 12:12 15 April 2009 (BST)

Can't you just admit you don't like this? You don't have to skirt around it by resorting to claims of dubious veracity. -CaptainVideo 23:48, 15 April 2009 (BST)

No, I like skirts -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:13 16 April 2009 (BST)

Of course I don't like the suggestion. Thats why I voted in the spam/dupe section, and not say, the keep section, or simply abstained. But I'm glad im swaying you. Yesterday it wasn't a dupe and today its only dubious. At this rate by the end of the week you may be agreeing with me :-) --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:05, 16 April 2009 (BST)

The dupe monster returns. This has happened sooooo often... There is often disagreement about what is and isn't a dupe... And when that happens, when it's significant, because often the "it's NOT a dupe!" cries have legitimacy, then it's really unfair to allow one person to come and just punt it after 3 dupe votes... Meh, teh wiki. --WanYao 18:48, 18 April 2009 (BST)

I agree. Needs more than 3 in my opinion. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 00:34, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Suggestions are very rarely cycled as dupes with only 3 dupe votes. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 09:25, 19 April 2009 (BST)

This is a second time I've seen a suggestion which has had many votes be shut down because of 3 controversial dupes. It's just annoying. Then again I don't think this has been shut down yet. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:28, 19 April 2009 (BST)

No, this hasn't been closed. But having many votes is irrelevant to it being a dupe. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 09:40, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Exactly, thats why I don't enjoy it in those situations. At leased the spam feature's power is relative to the community's interest and opinion of the suggestion. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:45, 19 April 2009 (BST)

I wasn't restating the rules there. A suggestion can be a duplicate of another suggestion regardless of whether it's liked or disliked. Community interest and opinion (other than whether it's a dupe or not) simply doesn't factor into it. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 09:56, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Yeah, and a suggestion can 'be' a duplicate of a suggestion even if its not. Don't you see? All it takes is for three muppets to think that a suggestion is a dupe when it clearly isn't as defined by guidelines, which state that the suggestion has to be wholey duped with very very little difference. At leased if there are 30 for and 20 against, 3 muppets who call it spam won't get anywhere. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 10:01, 19 April 2009 (BST)

And when has something like that last happened, hm? Like I said, suggestions are very rarely cycled with just 3 dupe votes. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 10:07, 19 April 2009 (BST)

And like I said, once that I can remember (it had to go to arbies) and that's only in the lifetime that I didn't follow the suggestion system. And like I said, I just find the concept annoying. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 10:27, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Here's one that was duped... it was very popular, but very much a dupe, despite only getting 3 dupes vs. 28 keeps. Doing it your way would mean that once a significant number of keeps were achieved, there would be no way to dupe a suggestion, because most voters never check back to change their vote if a dupe is found. A list of dupes can be found here -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 12:32 19 April 2009 (BST)

And I'd like to thank you gentlemen for touring my own personal hell. It does become hard, at times, to maintain good faith when people are insulting you for no reason with cries of "Dupe!" At this point I don't even care what either of you think of the proposition itself; I'm just glad you can be reasonable. -CaptainVideo 12:14, 19 April 2009 (BST)

No one is insulting you. A dupe is not an insult, It is merely a reflection that the suggestion has been suggested before. Spam votes, on the other hand are insulting, especailly when used as a stong kill. (Which they shouldn't be) Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:27, 19 April 2009 (BST)

I was going to be insulting, just for comparison, y'know... thankfully you edit conflicted me, Ross ;) -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 12:32 19 April 2009 (BST)

Actually, if you look at the second part of the dupe template it's a little offensive, considering he did take it to developing suggestions and no dupe was found. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:48, 19 April 2009 (BST)

What can i say? If I hadn't been banned for a week I'd have flagged the dupe there. It's not that hard to search for instruments in the suggestion namespace. Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:52, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Gnome obviously wants it to be made an escalatable offence to not point out that something is a dupe on Talk:Suggestions. Idiot. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 18:59, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Leave Gnome alone. >=( And stop putting words in peoples' mouths. It's very annoying. On top of that, it's not Talk:Suggestions anymore. Get with the program, n00b. -- Cheese 19:04, 19 April 2009 (BST)

True, but to some people they might "wtf" over the bringing it to Developing Sugggestions, and no dupe being found until the actual suggestion process, and it being duped. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 19:06, 19 April 2009 (BST)

You guys do realize that the template has already been edited at least once to be less offensive? If you can make it even less, go ahead, it's not even protected. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 21:25, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Fucking hippies! Some people are far too easily offended, stop pandering to them. At most it may be mildly annoying that the template happens to refer to a common problem with dupes (not going through developing suggestion) that doesn't apply in some cases. It's in no way offensive -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 21:33 19 April 2009 (BST)

It's not a common problem anymore. Hell, we've had only one dupe this year. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 21:35, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Not to mention we sometimes go weeks without having any suggestions.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 21:49, 19 April 2009 (BST)

And if it didn't go to DS, which I'm pretty sure it didn't, that's 100% of 2009 dupes that have the problem. I'd regard that as common :P -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 21:52 19 April 2009 (BST)

I changed it anyways, to something more helpful. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:53, 19 April 2009 (BST)

Let me revise my statement: "Hell, we've only had one dupe get into voting this year". Most of the dupes are stopped at DS, so no, it's not a common problem. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 07:42, 20 April 2009 (BST)

Box: It was, albeit for only a short time. It slipped through pretty quickly. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 16:03, 23 April 2009 (BST)