Suggestion talk:20090911 "Stand Up" Revisited

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Discussion ("Stand Up" Revisited)

That isn't terrible. Hmm. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 14:11, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Hmmm... --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 14:32, 1 September 2009 (BST)
seems familiar, though... --WanYao 15:02, 1 September 2009 (BST)
Yes, seems dupish. BTW, it nerfs ?rise tactics -- boxy talkteh rulz 15:37 1 September 2009 (BST)
how so nerf? --xoxo 02:09, 2 September 2009 (BST)
Think about it. Under this, you can't ?rise if you have only a few AP remaining before getting killed. And it penalises zombies who happen to get caught in a real-time fight, ?rise or no ?rise. Seems hamrless -- even beneficial -- but I fear it might have negative repercussions on zombies. --WanYao 05:13, 2 September 2009 (BST)
It also penalises survivors in a real-time fight, in the exact same way. Except without the ?rise nerf.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 22:14, 2 September 2009 (BST)
mmmm only relevant ifyou've got under 6ap. So doesn't affect survivors because they stand up as zombies if they just died. And if a zombies undr 6ap i see the issue but i think its fairly minor...--xoxo 04:19, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Getting a bit hazy here, but headshot currently punishes newbs much more than experienced zombies. This would seem to even that out a bit, whilst still slowing down zombies, newbs would get more ap's to use between each headshot. Hmm. Rise things an issue, but saying that I never really knew if Kevan thought it was a viable tactic or not. Hmm.--RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 16:38, 1 September 2009 (BST)

I remember at least one conversation on this and I am pretty sure it got shot down by both sides. If I remeber right a lot of survivors didn't like the idea of zombies being able to wait a few hours and standing up for "no penalty" while the hardcore zombie mob screamed "don't you nerf mah ?rise" Me, I would be all for it. --Honestmistake 16:54, 1 September 2009 (BST)

I don't really see a problem with it at the moment, although one may be revealed later; the same AP cost still applies. Not that I'm against nerfing ?risers, but how exactly does this do so? I don't see anything that stops them from continuing to spam get-up commands until they IP. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:31, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Once you run out of AP, you can no longer stand. This shifts the AP cost to beforehand.

For example: Zombie A is in a seige. He has 5AP left. He is knocked to zero hp, falls down. Currently, using ?rise, he'll isntantly stand up, going down to -15AP (assuming he's headshot without Ankle Grab). Even though his AP is now below 0, he's still standing, and needs to be killed again. With this addition, he's killed, and drops to the floor. He loses the AP at this point, reducing him to -10. He can now perform no actions until he reaches 1AP. This includes standing with ?rise. So, he cannot stand up, and only needs to die once.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 22:37, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Sounds like an improvement to me. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:39, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Alright, so what do you think, guys? Worth submitting to actual suggestions? - Foxtrot 22:46, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Probably, but prepare for it to be spammed by the papas. I doubt they'll be fond of it.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 22:51, 1 September 2009 (BST)
-- I might leave it up for another day just to be sure no one has anything to say, but I'd vote for it as is. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 23:02, 1 September 2009 (BST)
Search for a dupe first, or get someone to search for you. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:10, 2 September 2009 (BST)

With the first read, I wasn't sure what exactly was being suggested. I didn't see the difference paying at death was to paying at standup. Yonnua's example helps, so you might consider adding it when it goes to vote. So we have to look at the 2 affected events. One is the ?rise. I have no problem with that being adversally affected. The other is standig up without any AP (to spend performing actions after standing up). THAT tactics forces survivors to deal with "fresh" zombies before they can barricade, for example. Is losing that zombie tactic worth it?--Pesatyel 02:00, 2 September 2009 (BST) Oh, and, by the way, I don't have a problem with it. I like the suggestion.--Pesatyel 02:01, 2 September 2009 (BST)

I suspect very few zombies actually use ?rise. How many of them linger on the wiki is more likely to be a problem when this comes to voting. --Honestmistake 08:07, 2 September 2009 (BST)

I don't use the ?rise command itself, but I do enjoy the ability to use the stand up button when I find myself inside after someone kills me on their last AP, or is just too silly to dump me immediately (see the bottom of my user page).
Basically, this suggestion is removing my ability to choose when I loose the AP to headshot. As it stands now, I can choose to stand immediately and take the penalty, or stay down to avoid further headshots. I often stand up early when already dumped, so that I get loose the headshot penalty early, and can work up to near 50AP. It's only in green suburbs that further headshots outside are likely -- boxy talkteh rulz 11:45 2 September 2009 (BST)
Yeah, I can see advantages both ways myself. On balance I think I would prefer this method 9 times in 10 but its a close call. I think this would probably be best tested in a new city or introduced as a result of a limited run of "hollow point" ammo or some such. --Honestmistake 13:00, 2 September 2009 (BST)
How about a switch?--Pesatyel 08:06, 3 September 2009 (BST)
Set it to take AP on stand up then, when you are down re-set it to take on kill and get up for free :) --Honestmistake 08:13, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Why would this nerf ?rise? Surely they would still pay the AP that they would to stand up anyway? --RahrahCome join the #party!18:51, 2 September 2009 (BST)

To ?rise you need to be on positive AP. As it currently stands the AP penalty for standing is paid when you stand... this would make the penalty for headshots apply immediately making it very likely that the zombie will be taken to negative AP and thus unable to stand untill long after the building has fallen to others or (more likely) he has been chucked into the street. --Honestmistake 20:28, 2 September 2009 (BST)
Actually this mechanic applies to any kill but should really only be applied to headshots or it will end up doing favours for the Mhr cows. --Honestmistake 20:31, 2 September 2009 (BST)
Does this count for revives also? --RahrahCome join the #party!20:36, 2 September 2009 (BST)
Yep. - Foxtrot 22:18, 2 September 2009 (BST)

...Are you sending this to voting or not? It's a good idea. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 19:01, 8 September 2009 (BST)

Yeah, don't worry, I've just been busy lately. I'll try to get it up tommorow. - Foxtrot 21:02, 8 September 2009 (BST)
Three days later and this glorious suggestion still lies by the wayside.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 07:35, 11 September 2009 (BST)
It's not a bad idea, and there's no rule on who submits these things... I may just put it up myself when I get home tonight. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 13:42, 11 September 2009 (BST)
Go for it. Doesn't look like Foxtrot intends to.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 15:59, 11 September 2009 (BST)
See answer A; I've been busy lately, which has made me so extremely tired to the point that some days I couldn't be bothered to turn my laptop on. Anyway, I just had some catching up to do. All taken care off. Submitting now. - Foxtrot 16:56, 11 September 2009 (BST)

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