Suggestions/10th-Apr-2006

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Closed Suggestions

  1. These suggestions are now closed. No more voting or editing is to be done to them.
  2. Suggestions with a rational Vote tally of 2/3 Keeps over total of Keeps, Kills, and Spams will be moved to the Peer Reviewed Suggestions page by a moderator, unless the original author has re-suggested the Suggestion.
  3. Suggestions under the 2/3 proportion but with more or equal Keeps to Kills ration will be moved to the Undecided Suggestions page.
  4. All other Suggestions will be moved to either the Peer Rejected Suggestions page or the Humorous Suggestions page.
  5. Some suggestions may not be moved in a timely manner; moving Suggestions to Peer Reviewed Suggestions page will take higest priority.
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Bone Breaker

Timestamp: 01:11, 10 April 2006 (BST)
Type: New Millitary Skill (Again)
Scope: A chance for double damage with some blunt weapons
Description: Since zombies and humans have one thing in common, the same skeleton, I thought this might come in handy.

Bone Breaker

Appears on Millitary skills tree, adds same benefits to your zombie character.

Adds 5% to your hit chances with any blunt weapon. Your character can deliver horrifyingly precise attacks with blunt weapons at times. There is a 5% chance whenever you attack with a blunt weapon that you deal double damage to a human, triple damage to a zombie.

Message Reads: "Ohhh.. what a bone crunching hit for (X) damage!"

  • This skill allows people who want to go baseball bat crazy, or do some pipe hittin', or just see if you can kill someone with a crowbar something fun to do with them.
  • My rationale is a zombie's rot makes it more suscpetible to bludgeoning possibly breaking their bones better. many may argue against this, but look at it this way.. a living human being has the common sense to stop walking on a broken leg, a zombie doesn't. perhaps stupid zombies try to block bats with their arms rather than duck. it's all the same.
  • Make make things more interesting to see survivors (and some zombies) clubbing their enemies like a baby seal. But hey, it's good!

Votes

  1. Keep - Yeah, uh, like club your idea like a baby seal MrAushvitz huh huh. beat ya to it! Blunt weapons are easy finds for noobs what the hell? --MrAushvitz 01:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  2. Kill - MR A. READ THIS As far as the suggestion is concerned, there have been MUCH better suggestions then this.--Pesatyel 02:20, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Read it, doesn't suprise me. --MrAushvitz 20:38, 9 April 2006 (GMT)
  3. Kill - But still one of your better suggestions to date. People use shotguns and pistols too much. Gotta remember the old mob days where they'd break your legs if you didn't cooperate. BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 02:22, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Keep - I sincerely like this one. We're talking about a 5% chance of a baseball bat doing 4 damage instead of 2, after all - it's not game-breaking. This raises the damage per ap to .525, if I didn't mess up the math, which I very well might have. People need a reason to use blunt weapons. I am against the triple-damage on zombies, though. Double's enough. Edit: No, I did mess up the math. But the point is, the damage still isn't that high. -Murgatroid 02:29, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Keep - Yes, that's a Keep vote. Even a blind man may sometimes hit the mark. Meele weapons could need a boost and this one isn't your standard "+1 damage / + 10 % to hit" change....but the name is stupid and I would move it to civilian skills. Military guys don't do the job with baseball bats. Aushvitz: Stop suggesting shit and start suggesting things like this (but not more than 2-3 per week) and we may not flame you all the time. -Craw 02:32, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  6. SpamEdit: Gah. double damage to human triple damage to zombie! Do not help pking! - --ramby T--W! - SGP 02:39, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • In his defense, I'm pretty sure that's just for zombies usinga blunt object.--Wifey 05:04, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re:You are not the author, ergo unless you're responding to a re comment on your vote, or pointing out the rules to a newbie, you should not re other people's votes. I will be tacking this on in more then once place. Velkrin 05:23, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - The triple damage ruined it for me. But please resubmit! --TheTeeHeeMonster 02:40, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - The triple damage thing is pretty bad, six damage bats, thats good right? also, your jokes and flavor text almost made me spam this one. -Banana Bear4 03:07, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill/Change - I agree with Craw and Murgatroid. Double-damage against zombies, equivalent with people, change the name, toss it under Civ skills, and you've got me. -Wyndallin 03:59, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  10. Keep - Not bad. I stand surprised.--Wifey 05:04, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - One of your better suggestions. One question, does this crossover for zombies?--Hamster Ninja 05:04, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Yes, says so in the 1st 4 lines. Made sure of it cuz zombies can use blunt (caveman level tech is ok.) --MrAushvitz 11:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  12. Keep - O.O...I voted keep on an Aushvitz suggestion. I feel unclean.--Mpaturet 05:33, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally - 6 Keep, 6 Kill, 12 Total Agent Heroic 06:07, 10 April 2006 (BST) Its 5 kill and 1 spam... --Grim s 06:58, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - It is a change that will never be used, ever, due to the highly unreliable nature of the 20% to hit chance, and the fact that other weapons would have the same damage per ap. It is a completely useless change. --Grim s 06:58, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - Even at double damage you're doing more damage then a freaking pistol. Also, Agent Heroic, don't bother with the 'total' number of votes when doing a tally. Velkrin 07:01, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Keep - Yeah it's a good idea. Assuming that it's a 5% base probability of triple damage, not a conditional probability(that is 5% of attacks as opposed to 5% of hits) the expected damage would still only be 0.8 per ap. That is balanced. --MLF 07:04, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Keep - I like, I like. Gives blunt weapons some kind of usefulness. --Cyberbob240CDF 07:20, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - You had me until you made it so Zombies were unfairly disadvantaged compared to humans. I suggest a flat either double or tripple for both and not seperate rules for each. (Double would go down better) - Jedaz 09:12, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Keep/Change -I suppose I should've gone "Kill/Change", to tell the truth, since this doesn't feel exactly like a finished version for many of the reasons listed above: under civvie skills, some things unclear, etc. But it is so damn close I went this way instead. Top notch job, Mr. A...I knew you had this kind of suggestion in you. I'm sure there are other melee-weapon suggestions in Peer-Accept already, but I see no reason why this can join them as an option. I also genuinely like differentiating weapons in ways besides damage and accuracy; It gives people options in combat, thus keeping it from getting stale ("click click click hit click click click hit"). The triple-damage does feel a lot, but the rarity of occurance prevents it from being overwhelming. Maybe...probability-math has never been my strong suit...--Xavier06 09:23, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill Not bad aside from the triple damage thing. Get rid of that.--Mookiemookie 12:31, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  20. Kill - And for the love of God and all that is Holy and Unholy stop voting Keep/Change. If a suggestion needs to be changed vote Kill, explain why and ask them to resubmit. "Keep/Change" is not a valid vote - it means "Keep" plain and simple. DavidMalfisto 15:40, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  21. Kill - Gotta kill it because it hurts zombies more than survivors. Make it even for both sides and I can't complain. --John Ember 15:50, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  22. Kill - Make it double damage for both zombie and humans and change it to a civilian skill and I'll vote keep. Dickus Maximus 16:50, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  23. Kill Overpowered Timid Dan 17:31, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  24. Kill/Change - Surprisingly good for a MrA suggestion. Change it to double damage for zombies also, make it Civilian, and you may have a keeper. It's still weak even compared to an Axe, but it would at least give Civilians a low-XP attack option. BTW - this is a good example of why you should start using the discussion forum instead of posting everything directly here where it can get shot down over easily correctible details. --Norcross 17:53, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  25. Keep "Meh" sums it up. I don't like "critical hits" much, at least not for humans to do, but it's decent. Not wholy sure it's worth a spot on peer reviewed, but I'll give it it's chance--McArrowni 17:58, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  26. Kill - Should be equal damage to both sides, should be civilian skill. --Brizth W! 19:13, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  27. Keep - With one small change: Double damage to all. --Gene W! - Talk 02:31, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  28. Keep - Yeah, lowering damage against zombies to double would help. --Ralav 23:17, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  29. Keep- For reasons already mentioned --Rozozag 19:16, 22 April 2006 (BST)

Bounty Hunter

Timestamp: 07:27, 10 April 2006 (BST)
Type: Skill
Scope: Survivors
Description: Player can track down other survivors who recently performed threatening actions. A skill for high-level survivors, requiring level 10 like the zombie hunter skill or perhaps even level 20.

Bounty Hunter would work exactly like scent trail does for zombies, except that the events which give you a trail will be different. It will give you the current location of another survivor if you have just witnessed them either killing someone or destroying a generator. The rationale for this is that you are seasoned and vigilant enough to react when this kind of shocking event happens, and therefore can follow the perpetrator if you wish. Like scent trail, it will not give you a location when you are dead, so it is useless for revenge.

This skill will add an interesting dynamic to the game, allowing survivors who like the idea of tracking down and killing 'bad guys' to do so. Survivor vs. Survivor PVP will be a lot more interesting and gratifying when it is possible to catch your enemy, or to be caught. Whether this change will increase or decrease the amount of PKing going on is an open question: the potential for getting caught may discourage griefing and cause survivors to act nicely, but on the other hand, the possibility of a bounty hunter wasting a generator-breaker in a safehouse, only to be tracked down and killed by another bounty hunter in another safehouse, and so on, might cause survivors to kill one another a lot more. But it shouldn't affect the zombie vs. survivor balance at any rate.

It will also help the realism of the game, since presently anyone can walk into a crowded mall, murder a couple people, and run away; but it is almost impossible for someone who witnessed the murder to follow them - hardly a believable scenario! PK's are practically able to vanish like ninjas, as it stands. This would force people to be a bit more cautious and sneaky when they want to do something subversive, if they want to get away with it.

Altogether, this skill will add more depth, realism and fun to the game without impacting game balance at all.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author Vote --MLF 07:27, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep/Query - Under this PK'ers will have to think a little bit harder about their actions before they go out and go on killing rampages etc. I like. However, I do have one question. How long does it track someone for? --Cyberbob240CDF 07:34, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • RE - As I described it, it would be the same as scent trail, though this could be changed. Losing the trail after 24 hours, or maybe even less, could make sense. --MLF 11:32, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill - Believe it or not, but Pking is a valid method of play in this game, and this would make it nearly impossible for any pker to survive a night anywhere (And even more difficult when combined with the fact that there are numerous pker lists), which is massivly unfair towards pkers. Remember: We are people too. --Grim s 08:26, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • RE - That is not true. It would make it suicidal to engage in a PKing action in a room full of people with this skill, that is all. It would not be suicidal to kill the only bounty hunter in the room, nor to kill people when someone with this skill is not present (as would be the case in many small safehouses). This makes sense when you think about it. Now how do you imagine that walking into a room full of vigilant, armed individuals, opening fire and getting away unscathed should be easy? I know that it is now, because I have done it. --MLF 11:46, 10 April 2006 (BST)
      • Re - You are completely missing the point of what im saying. Multiply it by a billion. As soon as such a skill is implimented almost everyone with enough exp will buy it, creating an environment so hostile to Pking it will be almost completely wiped out. Pking is a valid play style. People can defend from it by moving to locations unlikely to be searched, by keeping a low profile, and by killing the person back if they attack them. --Grim s 13:36, 10 April 2006 (BST)
        • Re - Thank you for supporting my premise. The "killing the person back" idea is exactly what this skill is for. Also, this skill is intended to have a high level requirement, like level 20, so that only a minority of players will get it and thus it will not wipe out PKing. I'm afraid I didn't make that clear enough, sorry. --MLF 08:06, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - If you don't like PKing, go play Outbreak. -Nubis A.R.S.E. 08:32, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • RE - I do like PKing. I look forward to hunting people down and murdering them. I mentioned that there might be secondary deaths, where bounty hunters get killed. I think causing those deaths will be fun. --MLF 11:46, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - Excuse me? "Altogether, this skill will add more depth, realism and fun to the game without impacting game balance at all." How does allowing people to psychically know the whereabouts of PKers (who, believe it or not, typically have a tough time, as it is; sneakiness and caution are already a must) add "realism" and "fun?" And whence did you pull the idea that this would have no impact on game balance? It would effectively squash PKing against any survivors who aren't entirely alone.--Wifey 09:08, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • RE - The balance between PK's and "regular" survivors is pretty trivial, since the main point of the game is humans vs. zombies. Thus, the human vs. zombie balance is what I was referring to. If you had read my suggestion carefully, you would have seen this, as I referred to human vs. zombie balance specifically. The closing sentence was merely a summary. --MLF 11:46, 10 April 2006 (BST)
      • Re: - And when there are no PKers to keep survivors paranoid, humans get the upper hand. It's a complicated ecosystem in which we live; fuck with one species, and you've pretty much fucked with them all, a little bit. And I still don't see how it adds "realism."--Wifey 14:43, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re:You are not the author, ergo unless you're responding to a re comment on your vote, or pointing out the rules to a newbie, you should not re other people's votes. Velkrin 05:27, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill - No logical RP explanation has been given. Being shot with a gun is a threatening action. So why can't the person being shot know where the survivors new location is? - Jedaz 09:23, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill -Before I explain my vote, I should start by stating, for the record, that I do not have a PK character, thus my "Kill" vote is not motivated by some desire to see this voted-down to protect my character. That said, I have no specific bias against PKers. Its not the glamour-job you might think (half XP, unpopular/controversial, etc.) nor do they have mystical "ninja" powers (their name is displayed when they kill, just like everyone else, they flee with their legs just like anyone else). Is a survivor-to-survivor tracking skill a good idea? Possibly. Maybe. But this thing is so full of holes (like Swiss cheese) that it isn't even CLOSE to a finished version. What exactly triggers the tracking sense? Does it kick off by merely being in the same room as the action committed or does the player self-flag, like on the contacts list? If automatically initiated, does the player have a choice not to display tracking message (spam) if he could care less about tracking said PKer? What range and how long does it last (since this question has received no answer)? Are other bounty hunters able to track other bounty hunters, leading to your bounty hunter tracking and killing the PKer (or GKer, for that matter) only to, in turn, be tracked and killed by another bounty hunter, who also gets tracked and killed by another bounty hunter...ad infinitum. So, by the time you stand up from being killed (presumably in retribution by a PKer w/ BH skill), your bounty hunter's killer's killer's killer's killer might be out there. But then you can reinsert yourself back into the vicious circle by killing him, I suppose. Zombies will suddenly stop becoming survivors no. 1 concern if this implements. There are already plenty of in-game (speaking up, tagging, contact list, a supportive group w/ cellphones) and metagame options (group pages, forums, email, and a few non-group PKer lists). Granted, at this point, the metagame options are more efficient and I wouldn't mind seeing that change, but this ain't it, babe.--Xavier06 10:01, 10 April 2006 (BST) Edit: I guess the answers are satisfying enough, so I'll make my vote Kill/Change until I can see a final version, with some kind of definite cap on range/time (I'd say somewhere between 5-10 blocks and certainly no more than 24 hours). I still believe this will open up PKing to a whole new level, but, upon perusal of your answers and some time thinking on it, it seems like a social experiment I'm willing to try. Smart PKers might even learn to adapt, turning to the new sport of Bounty Hunter-baiting: killing someone in front of many witnesses and then deliberately leading them to an encampment held by their group (who all have BH as well). I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning; It smells like anarchy...--Xavier06 22:38, 12 April 2006 (BST)
    • RE - I am sorry it wasn't clear. When I said it would work like scent trail, I meant exactly like scent trail, which would make it easy to implement. You would log in and see the event in the log, and in parentheses you'd get a message like (Now 5 north, 12 west). It would only trigger when you see a survivor killing a survivor, or a survivor destroying a generator, in the same room as you; it would make no difference who that survivor was, whether he had some other skill, or anything else. It would not put people on a tracking list or give you persistent updates or anything like that; I don't know what gave you that idea. You would lose the trail if, when you log in, you are dead, or perhaps if a certain amount of time has passed as well. I had a vigilante - as opposed to revenge - oriented skill in mind, which is why I did not intend for it to trigger when someone hits you. Finally, I don't think that massive retribution wars among bounty hunters are actually likely. It's the sort of thing that I think would happen, but in a very limited way. --MLF 11:57, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep - For precisely the reasons that Wifey listed. And Grim, PKers may be people, too, sure - Kevan allows it but does not support it. He might find this interesting. -Wyndallin 11:13, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill PKing is perfectly valid and this would destroy it. No. This is a zombie apocolypse. I wouldn't want to see too many additions that took the focus of the game away from that. You were lucky to get the "see who killed someone/generator" thing. --Mookiemookie 12:28, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - Pking is an important anti-bordom meassure when zombies numbers are low, it also helps level of the survivor population when it gets to high, only if Pking became too rampant (probly due to another bad suggestion) would this be needed, and balancing is normally something kevan does solo.--xbehave12:43, 10 April 2006 (BST)edit: due to my slow edit i erased the above vote i hope restoring it is ok.
  11. Keep PKing is not a valid strategy. It is an method of play with no counter. Survivors can barricade against zombies, zombies can stand up easily, but PKers have a free ride. The only thing that keeps Urban Dead going is that PKers are a minority, otherwise survivors could easily be killed off and would quit the game. How do you oppose someone that can leap past all your defense and run away without a trace? Imagine if ZKers upon killing the zombie forced them to spend 30AP getting up. That wouldn't be fair either. It's best to plug this hole in gameplay before the problem gets more widespread. --Jon Pyre 12:51, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  12. kill It takes a bit of dedication, but Pkers can be easily found and killed even without this thing, which would be way too much in my opinion. And note that i'm not one who loves Pkers, as you can see on my page.--Denzel Washington 13:46, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Keep - The group which I'm part of has been having more problems with PKing than the zombies themselves, which is a little depressing really. This help stop the pker just popping into the building killing their targets and running away. This would alow good members of the puplic to track them down if they want Talos 14:58, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - Purely because "PK" makes me think of Lewt Wars. Oh and because even for a Zombie Apocalypse this skill is completely unrealistic - "Hmm... a murder has taken place, the killer must be hiding in the old mill! Quickly, to the Angel Mobile! Away!" DavidMalfisto 15:37, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - I think I would vote Keep if there were a time limit on how long the trail could be followed. Realistically, it is usually possible to see the direction in which a culprit has fled. However, as survivors don't die as frequently as zombies, it's conceivable that a bounty hunter could follow the culprit for a week or more. That seems overpowered. Make it time-limited so that the hunter must take immediate action or lose the trail, and I'll probably Keep. --John Ember 15:47, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill - As much as PKers annoy me, you haven't truly thought out this suggestion enough. While I would like a method to track the PKer who was abusing us a while back, it makes no RP sense. Unless you were watching out the window while he left, but then you would lose him after a few (if not one) blocks. BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 17:25, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Keep - I've got a PKer with a vendetta against me, I can barely stay alive for a day without him getting me. I've had enough of this game, PKers are ruining it. -- Norminator 2 17:46, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Keep - This is a very useful and characterful change. PKers are currently too powerful, and Bounty Hunters would still need to justify their actions to prevent being tracked down as PKers themselves. PKing may be a valid part of game play, but we still need some defense against them - it's silly that they can freerun into a mall during a zombie seige, blast the highest-level defenders, then disappear without a trace. --Norcross 17:56, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally 7 Keep, 11 Kill, 0 Spam -- 17:56, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill - I believe that tracking skills should remain the province of the zombie identity. I like my survivors as survivors. Finally, I think this makes PKing and GKing, as much as I hate those acts, nigh impossible to do and survive doing. --McArrowni 18:19, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  20. Kill - What was said above. --Brizth W! 19:05, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  21. Keep - I like it. --EnForcer32 22:25, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  22. Keep - Why is inhibiting PKing a BAD thing? It isn't like the suggestion keeps your from doing it, it would just be a tad harder then it currently is.--Pesatyel 22:56, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re: - People turn to PKing when they're seeking a challenge. That, in itself, shows that PKing is already hard. This would make it nigh impossible--and highly suicidal.--Wifey 01:37, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re:You are not the author, ergo unless you're responding to a re comment on your vote, or pointing out the rules to a newbie, you should not re other people's votes. Velkrin 05:28, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  23. Keep - Not the best mechanics yet but ... I'm voting for anything similar. --Spraycan Willy MalTel 10:07, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  24. Kill - See above. Velkrin 08:27, 23 April 2006 (BST)

Humans Hide from Humans

Timestamp: 16:22, 10 April 2006 (BST)
Type: Skill
Scope: Survivors
Description: This is a shameless lift from NexusWar. I like the mechanic so much in that game that I'm suggesting something very similar for our own beloved zombie apocalypse. Stealth suggestions get shot down all the time, but I think this one works just fine. Apologies to jorm.

When inside a building, a survivor has the option to attempt to Hide. The attempt costs 1 AP, but has only a 25% chance of success. A Hide skill addition in the Military skill tree bumps the chance to 35%. On a failed attempt, the player sees

You attempt to hide, but can find nothing to hide behind.

On a successful attempt, the player sees

You think you are well hidden.

Once hidden, the player cannot be seen -- by other survivors. Zombies can "see" hidden survivors just fine; their sensitivity to the manflesh smell is more acute. In other words, you can't hide from zombies at all; only other survivors.

There are three ways that your hiding can be interrupted:

  • Any search action executed by another player inside the building will reveal you to all players. You search and find ____________. You also find PlayerName, who was hiding.
  • Any successful attack by a zombie will also reveal you.
  • Performing any action which makes your presence obvious to others. You can search, reload, spray paint, heal yourself, read and consume while hidden. Speaking, improving barricades, placing/fueling a generator, using a FAK on someone else, or attacking persons/zombies/barricades will reveal you.

Since hiding is not a 100% guaranteed action, has no effect on zombies, and is pretty easily undone, its power is limited. However, it does have one important use -- hiding from PKers. A PKer will have to expend an extra AP inside any building in which he thinks his target is likely to be found. Often, he will pass you by entirely. For those complaining that there is no defense against PKing, I offer this as your answer.

Of course, PKers can also hide to escape retaliation. It's a sword that cuts both ways. But as a defense for those who find themselves frequent PK targets, it may be the choice between surviving another day and waking up as one of the undead.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. Yeah, I know -- stealth suggestion. I just ask that you consider it carefully. --John Ember 16:24, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill - I dunno, I'm just not a big supporter of these kind of ideas. I do recognize that John has put a large amount of thought into this, and I applaud that. I just don't like this genre of ideas. Dickus Maximus 16:58, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill - Spraying on a wall doesn't reveal you? Seaching doesn't reveal you? The percentage is too high in my opinion. It should be dropped to 15% or lower for it to not be unbalanced. If a PKer is interested in gutting you, and it's not a hide-and-seek type thing, he'll know you're in the building anyway, and his 1 AP negates your 4 AP spent hiding. It's just not something to mess around with... We alreay have hiding too... It's called idling out. BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 17:19, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - If the target is hiding in the same building every day, then you would be right. But that would be foolish. The target could easily make the PKer spend much more than 1 AP by rotating his hideout regularly. If the PKer has to search every building in a 5 block by 5 block square, you're talking about a lot of wasted AP. --John Ember 18:03, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - Considered it, but don't like it. Stealth suggestions are generally bad, just making it weaker doesn't automatically make it better. Good try though, I like the way you're thinking about things that could improve the game. --Norcross 17:59, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Keep - After thinking about it and reading the kill votes, I really don't see any compelling arguments against this.--Mookiemookie 18:02, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - A way to hide from PK'ers. I like this. --Abi79 18:07, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - Why? Just why? And are you sure you added this to the bottom of the page. DavidMalfisto 18:12, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Pretty sure. Suggestions seem to be hopping today. (Also, one of the later suggestions seems to have an incorrect timestamp.) As to why, I think I explained that. --John Ember 18:37, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Spam - Hiding skills always get a spam from me, even if there is a 100% to find them with a search. Velkrin 19:00, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep - Complete agreement with Mookiemookie. -Wyndallin 19:02, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - I hate stealthing skills. --Grim s 19:08, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Spam - No hiding or stealth skills. PKer's are hard enough to find as it is. Timid Dan 19:11, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  12. Spam - You miss one thing: PKers will also use this skill, so it will be harder to find and kill them. --hagnat tw 19:18, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - No, I did mention that. The thing is, PKers currently have the advantage over their targets. This would make retaliation less common, sure. But it would also make PKing less common, and I think that's the important thing. --John Ember 19:49, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Comment - I like the concept, but the anti-hiding crew has some good arguments too. Maybe it'd be useful with a bit more work . . . --John Taggart 19:20, 10 April 2006 (BST)s
    • Saying that it needs more work is the same as a "Kill." You might as well just make it a "Kill" vote. "Kill," contrary to popular belief, does not mean that the idea sucks (that's what "Spam" is for)--it means that it needs more work.--Wifey 20:36, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - best hiding idea I've seen. Still a hiding idea. -Banana Bear4 19:21, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill/Change -It may actually be too underpowered. But since most stealth/hiding skills are drastically overpowered ("I somehow withdraw my character into a pocket dimension that I can see out of but no-one can see into!"), I guess this is a refreshing change. Specifically, its the "every search reveals" thing that makes this suggestion almost useless. You spend all that time to hide and the next guy that comes in blows your cover?!? I suppose you could find a remote, non-resource building, since people would be less likely to search them. Then again, upon implement, survivors might just waste that AP to be a dick. It needs a way to reveal hiders, but perhaps not that easy, like maybe only on successful searchs or on a percentage of all searchs. Also, this should NOT be a unskilled action, even if it makes little sesnse from a RP standpoint. If people are having this much trouble with rampant PKing (I haven't seen or been subject to an abnormal amount myself), isn't there some way to get said PKer banned from the game? Regular, mostly random PKing doesn't bother me, but I can see malicious vendetta PKs as sucking the fun out of the game.--Xavier06 20:18, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Keep - at a cost of 4ap to hide its not too bad, the percantages could be tweaked downwards to make it better, but i like it enough to vote keep anyway--xbehave 20:33, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - I like the idea... Well, more than any other stealth skill ideas that I've seen so far. I, too, however, feel that a 100% chance to reveal you in a search might make the skill pretty useless.--Wifey 20:36, 10 April 2006 (BST) Keep - Meh.--Wifey 01:41, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - You would definitely want to hide out in an obscure location rather than a mall or resource building. Think bank, warehouse, tower, etc. Your options are pretty good. --John Ember 21:41, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re(2): Hm. I suppose. I guess I'll give it a "Keep." I don't know, though.--Wifey 01:41, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Keep When you can be found by a simple search it dosnt really unbalance so I say Keep. Whitehouse 22:05, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill - Pk'ers will always have a target. Even if they're after a specific target it will be easier for them to find their target then it will be for people to find them. Because stealth is far more important to Pk'ers then it is for regular survivors, this is for all its good intentions an defacto Pk'er buff. Usual disclaimer, yadyayada Pk'ing, not illegal, yadayada, not encouraged, etc.--Vista W! 22:06, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - This is a point which calls for some consideration. In my view, there are generally two kinds of PKer -- the "serial killer" and the "assassin." The serial killer doesn't have any goal in view as he goes on his spree; he's just racking up random kills. In this case, hiding helps him more than his targets. However, I would submit that this kind of PKer is not much of a problem. Sure, he'll kill you once; but then he's onto the next victim and you probably won't see him again. The second type, the assassin, is the PKer that makes his victims' lives miserable. He kills the same select targets over and over, hoping to drive them out of the suburb or away from the game. In this case, my suggestion helps his victims more than it helps him. And the assassin situation is IMO the one where some sort of counter needs to be made available. --John Ember 01:58, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  20. kill - uh ya change it to hide from everything and ill change my vote --Nuts monk 00:41, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re: - Wait... Am I hearing you right? You want it to be more powerful?--Wifey 02:44, 11 April 2006 (BST)
      • Re: - You are not the author, ergo unless you're responding to a re comment on your vote, or pointing out the rules to a newbie, you should not re other people's votes. Velkrin 05:20, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  21. Kill - Making a retarded suggestion extremely weak does not make it any less retarded. --Slicer 02:54, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - If you are against hiding, period, then I can't argue with you; but I would submit that this skill is actually quite powerful if used in a location which isn't searched often -- at least, powerful against PKers. No one wants zombies and humans to be able to hide from each other, and that's what the "no stealth skills" rule of thumb is really getting at IMO. Humans hiding from other humans is a different ball of wax, isn't gamebreaking, and provides a counter to a style of play which is currently impossible to guard against. --John Ember 04:55, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally - 6 Keep, 10 Kill, 3 Spam 21:24, 14 April 2006 (BST)

Exchange XP for AP

Spaminated with 7 Spam votes out of 9. "Do Not Mess With AP" --Brizth W! 19:22, 10 April 2006 (BST)


Small Surgery Change

Timestamp: 17:19, 10 April 2006 (BST)
Type: Small skill improvement
Scope: Survivors with surgery inside hospitals
Description: Just a small change to make buying Surgery more worthwhile. When using a First Aid Kit inside a hospital with a running generator and the surgery skill, using the kit heals 15HP and gives 10XP. This was written in response to some people's claims that the surgery skill was more or less useless, as it healed the equivilent of 3FAKs without the XP bonus that was needed as an incentive.

Votes

  1. Keep - Author Vote. -- Andrew McM W! 17:19, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep - Since syringes got a boost for being harder to use, this should get a boost for doing more. --TheTeeHeeMonster 17:28, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep - I suppose that makes sense. Gives the dedicated medical support characters their #1 method of gaining XP, and it makes the mall junkies seriously consider doing a tour of duty in a hospital for the XP (if noone in their mall is hurt.) It also balances the fact that FAK's are a little harder to find in a hospital than a mall.. so getting more XP for less AP is actually more balanced for this reason. -- MrAushvitz 10:19, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  4. Keep - Makes support classes that little bit more appealing - Davedavinson 17:38, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - I think the syringe justification is weak. Syringes can only be found at one place, and take usualy 10-20 ap to find one, then the 10 AP to use it. The XP is justified. However, FAKs can be found within 3 ap in malls and used in 1. I'd say the XP being at 5 is okay. The hospital complaint in my opinion doesn't hold water, as the FAK find rate is still high. First aid is meant to heal others. The XP gain just isn't justified. BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 17:46, 10 April 2006 (BST) Edit: I might finish my thought there. First Aid is meant to help others, not directly yourself. BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 17:49, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill - Changed my vote after reading Buncy's analysis. I guess this would make XP farming in malls and hospitals pretty trivial. --John Ember 17:46, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - For the reasons detailed by BuncyTheFrog. FAK's are nowhere near rare. Boosting the exp from them would dramatically increase their exp per AP to unbalancing levels. --Grim s 17:59, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep - Lets see, a change to the game that isn't about survivors going on killing sprees but encouraging support roles? Got my vote. DavidMalfisto 18:15, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill - For every body talking about XP/AP rate, here are the numbers. FAK's cost 3AP in malls and 7AP in hospitals to find, so AP cost is 4AP or 8AP with a 5XP reward. That averages out to 1.25XP/AP in Malls and 0.625XP/AP in Hospitals. Doubling the XP yield to 10 in hospitals would even out both ways of healing to 1.25XP/AP. There is however a cavat, you could search for your FAKs in malls and heal in hospitals. Usually/on average you would gain an increase in XP after finding 5 FAKs (10 blocks move away and to), with 30 Faks found, you'd get an increase to 2.1XP/AP. That certainly is way above any other means of XP collecting. and while the limited pool of hurt survivors would certainly lower the number, it would still be too high when taken other XP gathering ways into account.
    I actually support the idea that people healing in hospitals should be rewarded more XP then healers in another place for roleplaying reasons. However 10XP is to high, I think that 7XP per FAK would be better. That way you'd roughly get (7XPx30)/20APmove + 120APsearch) 1.5XP/AP in hospitals versus 1.25XP/AP in the rest of the game. A nice bonus well in line with the other major XP earners of survivors, (axe and guns) As you need need almost as many skills to effectively function in game for both XP methods it would shift the survivor XP gain slighty more towards Healing and defensive play, Which whould fit nicely in the current roles of both sides.. --Vista W! 18:28, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Thanks for the constructive critisim, everyone. Consider your suggestion added to any re-write I might want to do in the future, Vista. -- Andrew McM W! 18:35, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  10. Keep Good job -Banana Bear4 18:49, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - Vista does have a point, though. If this fails, or you voluntarily choose to rewrite, I'll completely support it in that form as well. -Wyndallin 19:09, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  12. Kill - See the Frog's argument. Velkrin 19:13, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - I do not think survivors need more sources of XP, and specifically do not think that surgery needs an xp bonus. Surgery is more nerfed by first aid than any other aspect, if anything, first aid is the skill that needs a tweak or limitation. Timid Dan 19:35, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - How is surgery 'nerfed' by First Aid? It's the next skill on the skills tree. Catriona McM 19:37, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - What Vista said. --McArrowni 19:41, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Keep This wouldn't put FAKS anywhere near overpowered. I started a doctor about half a month before a private. My private is level 35 and my doctor is level 29. And never mind that surgery also triples the amount healed so you get to heal them less times total for XP. Yes to doctor buff. --Zaruthustra-Mod 20:35, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  16. keep - It makes sense that if someone is putting the effort in to heal people in a powerd hospital they should get an xp bonus--xbehave 20:38, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Keep - Looks like a Keeper.--Wifey 20:39, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Keep Seems fair. Whitehouse 22:02, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill You only use one FAK--Cah51o 01:33, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally - 11 Keep, 8 Kill, 0 Spam 21:23, 14 April 2006 (BST)

Lucky Stiff

Timestamp: 12:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
Type: New Zombie Skill (Again)
Scope: A chance for your body to land somewhere safe!
Description: Lucky Stiff

Appears on zombie skills tree just under ankle grab, adds no benefits to your human character.

Your zombie has this annoying tendancy when it has been killed, to occasionally wander off.. sometimes finding a good place to die. This makes finding and disposing of your body more difficult.

Game Mechanics:

There is a 1% chance in powered buildings (3% chance in non-powered buildings) that zombies with this skill when killed, their body cannot be seen normally and removed from the building until found!

  • Finding a hidden body isn't hard if this building is used for searching on a regular basis. Every time a survivor searches and would have gotten a "you found nothing" message there is a 1% chance that they instead find a hidden body (if there is one.) If the body is found by even 1 survivor it is now visible and able to be tossed out normally by any player.
  • If there is more than 1 hidden body, a test is made for each body at 1% each, it is mathematically possible to find 2 or 3 hidden bodies at a time! When a survivor finds a hidden body they gain 2 XP each, for keeping things safer.


The intention of this skill is it is an incentive to have power in all safehouses, regardless of building type. Additionally there is a chance, however slight, of your zombie logging in and being inside of a safehouse ready to attack! (Only the zombie is pleased by his good fortune.) It does add a fear and suprise element to the game (where the hell did that zombie come from?!?) which is a mainstay of the horror genre.

"Geez man, I've heard of skeletons in your closet, but what the hell is this dead guy doing in your bedroom?"

Votes

  1. Keep - Oh come on! This could be fun. Good name choice this time. --MrAushvitz 13:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  2. Keep - Two in a lifetime? Mr A is on a roll - this idea doesn't totally suck. It's probably the single worst idea I've ever voted "keep" to but seeing as "keep/change" is not a real vote - keep it is. DavidMalfisto 18:20, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep - 1% in powered and 3 in unpowered? Got my vote --Abi79 18:32, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Keep - Makes for a fun dynamic. Guess we can assume the the zombie fell into a pile of leftover 'cading materials when he toppled. --John Ember 18:40, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Keep - I like it too. Not unbalancing and also not something to cause over reaction. --ramby T--W! - SGP 18:42, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - A good MrAushvitz vote? Gasp! This idea would be useful, but malls would be safe from this, especially Caiger. It'd just mean more XP for survivors in malls. May want to up it to 2.5% or 5% 343 18:43, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Keep - Sure, why not. It would hardly ever happen, and one zed inside a barricaded building can't do too much damage... enough to help the zombie in question a lot, though, XP wise. Asuuming one still wants XP after buying this skill.--Guardian of Nekops 18:48, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - I dont like stealthing skills. Even if the percentage chance is miniscule for it to happen, it probably will happen a lot given the zombie death rate. Furthermore the find rate for hidden bodies is ridiculously low, to the point where it is supremely unlikely they will ever be found. Also, the game appears to run off 5% increments, making the maths required for this impossible under the existing software as i understand it. All this adds up to is a skill that is a hairs breadth from utterly useless (Given its microscopic chance of happening), completely unreliable (Same reason), and on the occasions that it does work, extremely overpowered (Yay, 50ap inside a building full of humans, and i can log in at any time to spy on them! Better yet, they stand almost no chance of finding me!).--Grim s 18:51, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Aha, but it is only the body which can't be found! As soon as you stand up, boom, they see you (you aren't a body anymore.) --MrAushvitz 15:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
      • Re - You say that as if it makes a difference. MrA, BODIES CAN SEE. --Grim s 06:06, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep - Maybe up the chance of finding the bodies (2-3% maybe?), but besides that, it's a well thought out and origional idea. A first second for MrAushvitz. Grim makes good points though. It would be interesting in malls I'd presume. BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 18:55, 10 April 2006 (BST) (Grim! Stop stoping me from editing! X<)
  10. Spam - Hding suggestions always get spam from me, even if it's not triggered by the player. Velkrin 18:57, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - I disagree with Grim S. The chance of a human finding a zombie is the same as the chance of a zombie hiding (in a powered building), yes? That is fair, considering humans search just as much as zombies die, probably a lot more. The advantage it gives it really not that overpowered, because what are the odds of a zombie happing to be killed and their body hidden in a building where humans actually say anything worth hearing? That's what zombie spies are for! It just gives a very lucky zombie 50 more chances to do some damage. Catriona McM 19:02, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  12. Kill - The hiding dynamic has been suggested before in several different ways, the problem is that uncertainty wether a zombie disappears from being dumped or disappears because of the hiding skill whould burn a lot of AP of searching, I don't care much about that. the problem here is more, what use does it have for the zombie? in a heavily populated building a zombie hiding isn't productive and easily discovered. They would have more effect with ?rise or attacking right away. In a sparsly populated building people would know what happend to the zombie they just killed both ways invalidate the skill. Certainly gives survivors a lot of lovely flavor, for sure. But what does it actually give zombies? I mean they are the ones buying the skill...--Vista W! 19:00, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - Ridiculously overpowered in non-heavily populated or non-resource buildings. --Brizth W! 19:03, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Spam - No ninjas. Ever. Timid Dan 19:09, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Note: Dead bodies make poor ninjas. --Gene W! - Talk 02:46, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re:You are not the author, ergo unless you're responding to a re comment on your vote, or pointing out the rules to a newbie, you should not re other people's votes. Velkrin 05:30, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Spam - vote changedUseless and overpowered suggestions are the most awful paradox. -Banana Bear4 19:09, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Keep - Not useless, as it adds drama to the game; not overpowered given the chance of it occuring, and because in actual safehouses where zombies are likely to be killed, there would be people on nearly all day. In smaller, unpowered safehouses, the zombie only has a three in one hundred chance of this being triggered. I only play survivors, and I'm sick of dying to zombies breaking into safehouses, but I like this. -Wyndallin 19:15, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Keep - I like survival horror, not just survival. (Besides, "Geez man, I've heard of skeletons in your closet, but what the hell is this dead guy doing in your bedroom?" is comedy gold.) --John Taggart 19:34, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Keep - Have you been sucking out the brains of good suggestors for your own uses? --TheTeeHeeMonster 19:44, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill - I like the spooky feel of hidden zomies but don't want to see XP given for searching. --Spraycan Willy MalTel 19:55, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  20. Keep - The percentages could get tweaked a bit, but the basic idea sounds like fun for everyone. --Dickie Fux 20:19, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  21. Kill/Change You are on to something, but I agree with grim's points as it is now--Mookiemookie 20:21, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  22. Keep (but some changes would make it better) - Finally, a good one! I could suggest changes, for example increasing the percentages (both for hiding and for finding - 3% chance of hiding is hardly worth wasting a skill for, and surely it shouldn't take over 100 searches to find a body. And 2XP is a lot, 1XP total would be better (and the same as dumping bodies). Still, the basic idea is good. --Norcross 20:22, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  23. Spam For god's sake people, try to maintain the illusion of consistency at least. You would never vote for a ninja suggestion if the numbers were higher, but if its balanced to .5% its suddenly ok? Auto-grief is auto-grief is auto-grief, and rarity doesn't make it any better. As for practically speaking, it would further huddle survivors into tactical resource points like caiger (if anything) which would just be bad for zombies. --Zaruthustra-Mod 20:31, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - I like suggestions that have options for survivors to prevent, for game balance. This skill is most effective against unpowered buildings. I doubt one of my skills suggestions would send survivors running for the malls in panic. --MrAushvitz 16:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  24. Spam - Ditto what Zaurth said--Bermudez 21:27, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  25. Spam - No hiding. --mikm W! 21:51, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally - 14 Keep, 5 Kills, 6 Spam. Oh my. Only affects the body, you're visible as soon as you stand up. -- MrAushvitz 16:49, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  26. Keep Come on, this is a good one. Whitehouse 22:01, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  27. Spam - few hidden bodies in a non-resource building... unstoppable --EnForcer32 22:42, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  28. Kill - As I read it, basically, the zombie dies and has x% (I think 1%/3% is too low) that people won't SEE the body to dump it. Doing a search has a 1% chance (again, too low) of finding the body and making it visible to be dumped. If not found, the zombie can then stand up (presumably when at full AP) as normal. Complication might arise in the altering the search % when bodies are added. And would a searcher find ALL the bodies (should there be more than one)? And what about hordes "hiding" bodies in deserted resource buildings?--Pesatyel 23:13, 10 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - I covered that, 1% is checked seperately for each and every body. So you can get lucky and find 2 at once, but if you're searching several times you might find them all anyways. --MrAushvitz 17:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  29. Spam - If only because the very concept of it is ridiculous and stupid. Looks like we're back to standard Mr. A.--Wifey 01:44, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  30. Kill - Close to another "Meh", but one that looks more fun. I like the low % to use and low % to be found, however, balance-wise, this makes survivors dread non-ressource buildings because a zombie can stay hidden in there for a long time before being found. So I eventually changed my vote to kill--McArrowni 01:49, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  31. Kill I don't care how low the percentage is. Survivors hit the anti-lottery with this one. --Slicer 02:43, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  32. Kill No stealth skills. --Jon Pyre 03:43, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  33. Keep - Only complaint is the mutipy by billion... mall seige and 50 zombies get in with the skill, half the time one will stay hidden. A few attacks like that and a small hidden army could built up --Private Chineselegolas RAF 03:46, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - True, but multiply it by a billion, and even then each survivor who searches gets a 1% check per zombie inside of finding them (instead of "you find nothing.") Technically you could pick up a couple thousand XP finding all those bodies, another thousand or so dumping them, and then using your last AP to get the hell out of there! One survivor makes out like an XP bandit! --MrAushvitz 23:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  34. Spam - No hiding skills, automatic spam vote. --Cinnibar 04:34, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  35. Kill - I agree with Grim. --GuavaMoment 04:59, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  36. Kill - I agree with Grim as well, except he forgot about the flare gun which starts off at 2.5% to hit - Jedaz 07:26, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  37. Keep - I don't know why people think this is overpowered. There's only a 1 or 3% chance of being hidden! Keep up the good work. --Cyberbob240CDF 07:43, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  38. Kill - If this worked it would mainly affect newbies who haven't learned where to go and must sleep in weakly barricaded buildings. And the effect will not be fear (good) but confusion and frustration (bad). If this could be reworked to happen more often and mainly to experienced players, I'd be for it. How about restricting it to malls? --einexile 11:20, 14 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally - 17 Keep, 12 Kill, 9 Spam 21:23, 14 April 2006 (BST)
  39. Kill - Hide skills are bad. Plus survivors would have to keep searching useless buildings. While this may work in resource buildings, since it takes 30+ wasted AP to dispose of a single body in a non-resource building, it's seriously broken. -- C tiger 04:43, 16 April 2006 (BST)
  40. Kill - There's some sense in this, but not enough. --Jack Well 11:58, 20 April 2006 (BST)
  41. Kill/spam -way over powers zombies in sieges gives one zombie the ability if hes lucky todie not get dumped and next log on and kill people without going thru baricadesAvicm 19:27, 20 April 2006 (BST) Remove the strike when you make up your mind on what your vote is. --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 08:36, 23 April 2006 (BST)

Dismantle Barricades

Timestamp: 23:21, 10 April 2006 (BST)
Type: Skill
Scope: Zombies
Description: (I actually checked and did not find something like this).

Unlike my previous suggestion (Virulent Infection), this one will be quite short. It's a skill that appears under memories of life, and gives you +5% (a number that I judge not overpowered... could be higher though) chance to knock barricaded down a notch when attacking. The logic is simple: If you can remember how they are made, you can remember how to 'unmake' them. The description would go like this: Dismantle Barricades (Under Memories of life): Remembering how barricades were assembled, you now have a better insight on how to destroy them (gives you +5% chance to destroy barricades)

Votes

  1. Keep - Author vote. --Certified=Insane 23:21, 10 April 2006
  2. Keep - This is a great idea. --Josh Night 23:52, 10 April 2006 (BST)
  3. Dupe - Then you must look harder young grasshopper because this is one of the most suggested skills. I can't right know because I live at GMT +1 and have to work in the morning. (and remember new suggestion go at the bottom of the page, moved it for you. no need to aplause, because... it's easy! You may try to do so next time, for so is the path of the grasshopper!)-- Vista, Supreme extalted Teacher of light from the Suggestions page W! 23:58, 10 April 2006 (BST) For a Dupe vote to be valid, a link must be provided to the original suggestion. Remove strikeout when link is provided. --Certified=Insane 20:54, 12 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - For a dupe vote a link to the original suggestion is required. If it ends up being one, I will remove it of course. I mainly looked in the 'do nots' page, expecting to find it there, but only found 'cade bypass skills. Thanks for moving it though... feel kinda stupid for that. --Certified=Insane 02:16, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Keep - I like the simplicity of it's name. It does not require zombies to punch their fists through concrete, and seems very logical. Yet another reason MoL is a good mob tactic to help noobie zombies get in. --MrAushvitz 17:11, 10 April 2006 (GMT)
  5. Keep - Makes sense to me, not too strong and zombies need skills too, so why not? Orangutang 00:17, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - 'Cade smash FTW --TheTeeHeeMonster 00:40, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - survirors with barricading skill know how to build barricades, however they still need to spend time to break them down --Cah51o 01:45, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Wasn't going to add another skill for humans, and making this skill go both ways make no sense. Besides, humans have crowbars, you can assume that part of their sucess rating already includes the fact they know how it is built. --Certified=Insane 02:16, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep - 5% isn't a problem. I would be surprised ot learn that this isn't a dupe, though.--Wifey 01:47, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep - 5% is ok, I guess. I liked Grim's version, which was probably bigger but with brain rot as a pre-req, but this would be ok--McArrowni 01:52, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - Barricades are fine, don't weaken then, especially not now!--xbehave 01:57, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - Sure why not--Mookiemookie 01:58, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  12. Keep - I like it helps balance surviror barricade a bit more --TorRen 18:40, 10 April 2006 (PST)
  13. Kill Why the hell do zombies deserve a random boost against barricades? Barricades aren't particularly hard to destroy. With just 40AP and max combat skills my zombie was able to plow through a Very Strong barricade, let out a feeding groan and bring a survivor inside from 45hp to under 5. They don't need a damn boost. --Jon Pyre 03:41, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Keep - Velkrin, Jon's not Re-ing anybody. Jon, if you managed that, I'd have to say that you got very, very, very lucky. I don't think I've ever managed to do anything like that. Anyway, unless this gets a dupe link, which I'm sure it might eventually, consider my vote a Keep. --Pinpoint 05:51, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re I'll re just because you reference me directly. I've found that with maxed out zombie combat skills I can usually break through QS barricades in around 30 AP. This time, actually right before I voted, I got slightly lucky and was able to break through Very Strong barricades in around 25 AP. But two maxed out zombies can tear down any level of barricade. They don't need to be more powerful. Make zombies more fun, not more powerful. Oh, later I logged back in, found myself still in the NT building I had broken into, and used the 3AP I gained in the meanwhile to destroy the generator and infect someone else. --Jon Pyre 06:13, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - See above, I think. Gimmie a minute to check. Anyway, Thanks for pointing that out Pinpoint, I swear there used to be a non-author Re there. Velkrin 05:57, 11 April 2006 (BST) EDIT: Vindication! There was a non-author Re! Exhibit A. He removed the illegal re but not my re to his re. Still a kill vote however. The only problem that I have with barricades are that they stay up forever, which we have a suggestion to deal with. 06:00, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill - I don't have a problem with this idea as of such. But imagine the over all effect on the game at this point. We currently have an almost 50/50 balance, if Zombies get this 5% increase that means about 1AP less spent on each level or so. Which means that it's about 10 extra AP that Zombies get to attack survivors with presuming barricades are at VS+2! Thats 15 more dammage from each Zombie, or 16 dammage from them with bite which would include infectious bite. So although it is a small change it has a large butterfly effect. Suggest again when Zombie numbers are much lower. - Jedaz 07:36, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - Too powerful. --Bulgakov 08:12, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Kill - Standing Survivors: 20218 (51%), Standing Zombies: 19208 (49%). Don't mess with game balance kiddies. DavidMalfisto 10:58, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  19. Keep - I like this a lot, great idea. Weaner 15:45, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  20. Kill - I usually vote keep for zed skills, altough I'm from a survivor group, but this one... I imagine zeds trying to dismantle barricades. "Hey, come help me with this board. I think that if we're going to attack it, the barricades will fall! I'm so smart!" --Abi79 16:14, 11 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - They only remember parts of it (as only being able to comminicate partly, or only being able to bypass doors and not 'cades, just like the other Memories of life skills). They still don't remember the function of crowbars or anything, hence the slight 5% bonus. --Certified=Insane 17:09, 14 April 2006 (BST)
  21. Keep - I don't think this skill would be broken at all, a slight boost for higher level zombies makes a lot of sense--Surfincow 18:28, 11 April 2006 (BST)
  22. Kill - Balance in the has already changed enough for the zombies after those revification modifications. Jack Well 12:03, 20 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally - 12 Keep, 9 Kill, 0 Spam, 21 Total --JackWell 12:03, 20 April 2006 (BST)
  23. Kill - the % might not seem to high but in a sieg like Cargie mall that would be 5%*3000 zombies which is to overpoweredAvicm 19:31, 20 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - The zombies might get more of themselves inside and maybe a few more kills... So? I see nothing wrong with that. In my opinion, nothing should stand against 3000 zombies. The only way to survive should be to flee, and not be the hero and pick up the barricades the zombies are dropping and setting them back up 24 hours a day... (Of course you are a survivor player and I am not trying to convert you... i just find it rediculous. All my survivors alts are safe and not in malls. It's only logical to have a certain greater danger come with the extra and easy ressources... If you find zombies become overpowered for some reason, just go hide in some random library and EH barricade. You should be fine for a long time.) --Certified=Insane 00:55, 21 April 2006 (BST)
  24. Keep- I don't see the harm. Honestly, if a group of zombies wants to get into a barricaded building, they can. And I'm not sure about everyone else because I've mostly stayed in the northwest reigon myself, but Malton seems a little to safe for a Zombie infested city right now.--Rozozag 19:24, 22 April 2006 (BST)

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