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Closed Suggestions

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VOTING ENDS: 7th-May-2006

Knife Improvements

Timestamp: 00:06, 23 April 2006 (BST)
Type: Skill/Balance
Scope: Anyone with Knives
Description: Taking the advice of the voters, I have put this in a different voting slot. The purpose of this suggestion (like the Blunt Combat suggestion) is to balance the melee weapons in the game, and remove the Fire Axe's monopoly as the only useful melee weapon. As it is now, the Knife is simply a weaker Fire Axe. The Knife Combat skill is (almost) completely useless. To change this, I propose the following:

Knife Combat be changed from +15% to +20%. Also, a new skill:

Blade Twist (appears under Knife Combat tier): Attacks with Kitchen Knife have 35% (percent is negotiable) to do 4 damage instead of 2. Flavor text could read:

Attacker: You impale (player name/the zombie) for 4 damage!

Receiver: (Player name) impaled you for 4 damage!

By increasing the Knife's accuracy, it has an advantage over the Fire Axe. However, the change in accuracy is not enough to make it an attractive weapon. By adding Blade Twist (combined with the improved accuracy), the Knife now deals 1.215 damage per attack on average (the math was unpleasant), compared to its pitiful .8 currently. Mathematically, the Knife becomes only slightly better than the Fire Axe, which deals 1.2 damage. But the Kitchen Knife would be a gamble. You might do 4 damage a few times, but then again, you're more likely to get a string of 2s.


  1. Keep - Author Vote. ---- Jack Brandenburg 00:06, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill -knives=/= guns. nuff said--Mpaturet 01:09, 23 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Did you even bother to read the last paragraph? The average damage is only slightly (insignificantly) more than the Fire Axe. 1.2 damage X 50 attacks = 60 damage. 1.215 damage X 50 attacks = 60.75 damage, but since the game rounds down, it's really 60 damage, the same as the Fire Axe. ---- Jack Brandenburg 20:50, 22 April, 2006 (EDT)
  3. Keep - Knives require skill to use well and even then you may get unlucky, so I think it's good :) --Lord Evans W! 01:10, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Keep There just aren't enough stabbings in Malton! Besides a chance of doing double damage with a knife isn't such a big deal, the fire axe does more damage all the time. Let the psychotics have their fun, and with all those female characters out there we'll see more "bobbit" references. Beautiful. Although I think the flak jacket should reduce that chance of 2x damage from 35% to 30% each time you hit someone wearing it, but that's me. --MrAushvitz 01:27, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Keep - The 35% chance of double damage is much nicer. --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 12:29, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - I actually checked your math, and came up with the same number. If you'd like to make the fire axe and knife come out equal, reduce that bonus chance to one-third. Either way, it'd be nice to allow players to pick either the knife or the axe depending on their RP preference. --John Ember 03:09, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Keep - I just want to say that I hate this, for the sheer reason that there is no way a knife, which is only slashing and stabbing, can do as much damage as a fire axe, which is slashing and blunt. Sure, you cut it up a bit. But can you stab them in the head for that Headshot? And how, pray-tell, are you going to deal fifty damage to a zombie in the same amount of time as someone with a fire axe? I disagree with it, but the idea has merit, so I'm going against my instincts and voting Keep. -Wyndallin 03:23, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Keep - I think that the knife is too weak. Maybe we need something like this with other melee weapons too, like smashing heads with a length of pipe and stuff. Good suggestion there. HerrStefantheGreat 12:24, 23rd April 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill - No critical hits. DavidMalfisto 13:29, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  10. Keep - I like this idea...To answer Wyndallin, yes it is possible to deal same about of damage in real life. If you consider the analtomy of human, firaxe can create huge damage to human skin and bone structure, but as its size is so big, sometimes it is hard to actually damage the internal organ without being stopped by the bones. Slashing a knife wont create damage similar to fire axe, but stabbing can:D. --Changchad 13:32, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - I like this idea per reasons stated above. --Steel Hammer 14:56, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  12. Keep - Excellent, I love that it makes the knife useful but different. I would actualy finaly buy Knife combat. --Kirk Howell 15:24, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Keep - A reason to use knives. I like it. --Abi79 AB 17:32, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Keep -i think this would add a nice element of surprise to the game and end the fire axe monopoly you got my voteAvicm 18:45, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Keep - I'd tap it.--Wifey 20:35, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Keep - Knives are fucking cool. --Undeadinator 20:52, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - First, lose the critical hit. Second, it's a f-ing kitchen knife not a combat knife. Its not designed for hand to hand combat, and if you went around twisting the blade you'd probably end up with either the tang breaking the handle, or a broken knife. Once again, Kitchen Knifes != Combat Knives - Velkrin 22:01, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Keep - It's a game based on ZOMBIES. Why not also complain about how guns need cleaning, how there should be abandoned cars in the street that should fueled with gas and charged with portable generators, and then be driven, and how miltary classes should also be using assault rifles and grenades? Voting kill on the basis of 'unrealistic' = lame. Agent Heroic 22:32, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  19. Keep - I love the idea that it has a chance to do double damage. Things get a little dull when you know exactally how much damage you will do if you hit. Just the excitement of me going If I don't hit for 4 damage... I won't have the AP to finish the job and get to saftey is enough to get me to use the knife --Teksura 22:48, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  20. Keep - Well thought out, and I'm impressed you went through and did the math to balance it out. Slartybartfast 01:59, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  21. Keep -I heartily endorse this product and/or service.--Xavier06 19:03, 25 April 2006 (BST)
  22. Kill - There's no point in "let's make the _____ the new fire axe" suggestions. We've already got a h2h weapon that's better than any other h2h weapon in all situations. If you want to change its damage output, that's no reason to change its name. To make a worthwhile improvement, make the weapon-to-be-improved have advantages and disadvantages compared to the fire axe. --Dan 00:09, 6 May 2006 (BST)

Hunting Rifle

Timestamp: 01:19, 23 April 2006 (BST)
Type: New Ranged Weapon
Scope: Largest current ranged weapon, higher accuracy but has many reloading limitations
Description: Let's see if MrA can make a "paletable" version of this idea for UD.

Hunting Rifle

Search Accuracy:

  • Hunting Rifle - Mall Gun Stores (5%/8%), Armories (1%), Police Departments (1%), Mansions (5%)
  • Box Of H.R. Ammo - Mall Gun Stores (6%/9%), Armories (2%), Police Departments (2%), Mansions (6%), Junkyards (1%)
  • Max. To Hit: 75% (with 5 skills, 1 of which is basic firearms training)
  • Damage: 7 HP (6 to those with a Flak Jacket)
  • Capacity: 8 Rounds
  • Inventory Size: 3 Spaces (Largest ranged weapon available)
  • Box Of Shells: 1 Space - 10 Hunting Rifle rounds per ammo box

Hunting Rifle Skills Tree: Civillian weapon, so it's skills are under the civillian skills tree.

  • Starting Skill: 10% Accuracy (Pistol and Shotgun start at 5%)
  • Basic Firearms Training: 35% Accuracy (adds 25%)
  • Rifle Training: 45% Accuracy (adds 10%)
  • Advanced Rifle Training: 55% Accuracy (adds 10%)
  • Expert Rifle Training: 65% Accuracy (adds 10%)
  • Marksman Rifle Training: 75% Accuracy (adds 10%)


  • Can only be reloaded when no zombies are at your location (opening the breach or carefully reloading the clip, not easily done under duress.)
  • Reloading rate is as costly as the shotgun, 1 AP per round put into the weapon. (8 AP to fully reload!)
  • Whenever you search and find a hunting rifle, it is never loaded! (Comes with zero ammo, so it will cost some AP to load each new rifle you find.)


This weapon's intent is to provide a very damaging round, with a higher degree of accuracy. However this weapon deliberately costs 2 more skills (compared to the pistol and shotgun) to get it's accuracy up to that point. Noone masters the rifle very quickly, it takes a lot of practice, patience, and skill. So this weapon is the "middle" weapon between the pistol's easy reloading / lower damage, and the shotgun's expensive reloading / massive damage. This is an excellent "newbie" weapon if they know where to look for it, but best suited to those who survive in malls or search a lot elsewhere. This is also the "sniper" weapon so many have been looking for. (But we're not going to do any of that shooting at nearby locations stuff, keep it simple.)

This weapon's larger size (requiring 3 spaces apiece!) means that few players will be carring several fully loaded rifles into battle. That and the combat reloading limitation, means a player who uses the rifle should have another weapon on hand (probably a pistol and a few clips or a decent hand weapon), just in case things start to go badly. However it is the largest firearm, and has the largest fully loaded capacity. (But pistols reload so much faster, and unload rounds that much more quickly.)

The payback for the obvious limitations of the hunting rifle is when you do find an ammo box, it doesn't take up very much inventory space (compensation for rifle's sheer size, and reloading restrictions.) In this regard it has one advantage over the shotgun (but if you prefer to carry several loaded shotguns, that is also a preference, or if you just prefer that much damage that much sooner, needing less skills to max. out.)

Another reason for it's combat limitations, this is a hunting rifle, not a combat rifle.. it is a very accurate ranged weapon but not something so well suited for enemies up close (or wearing a flak jacket!)

It does make for a wonderful weapon for "zombie hunting", and it does make for lovely headshots.


  1. Keep - Author Vote. After a careful study of prior rifle suggestions, I decided to go with my gut. Make a big weapon that can hold a lot of ammo. But slow to load like the shotgun and can't be loaded when zombies are close by. I'm basically certain this is what players would expect to see (begrudgingly) in a hunting rifle. You also can find them in Mansions (makes mansions an new and interesting search possibility, very rich folk tend to have a lot of guns nearby, just in case.) Btw, just so you know how this will affect newbies: If they have basic firearms training that's 35% to hit, and with this rifle as 2nd skill that's 45%. This weapon might make some millitary characters (especially private, scouts, and even medics) a lot more fun to play. --MrAushvitz 01:19, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep - Even as a zombie I like it! --ramby T--W! - SGP 02:02, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  3. Keep - You're doing better MrAushvitz... --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 02:17, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Keep - (Correction) Maybe my math is off, somebody correct me if so. I figure the average shotgun damage per AP, with best-case mall searching figured in, is 0.79. The pistol averages out to 1.22. This rifle would average out to 1.69. For further comparison, the axe only reaches 1.2/AP and max zombie claws get up to 1.8/AP. This would definitely be powerful; I'm not sure calling it an in-between firearm is accurate. What makes the average damage so high is the ammo bonanza -- 10 shells for every 11 AP you search. (See the discussion page for my math on these averages.) It might be better if the ammo box held a few less rounds, but then there's the restriction on combat reloading (interesting twist) which mitigates this. So overall I'm inclined to Keep. It's a solid suggestion. --John Ember 02:55, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - I like the rifle idea and putting something in mansions is great, but it's just too accurate! The five skills don't really seem to be enough to balance it. I mean, there are a bunch of maxed out characters with 500 XP to burn wandering around town. Also, wouldn't having 8 rounds in the gun and 10 in the box cause a problem? --Ron Burgundy 03:17, 23 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Excellent point, but maybe the high level characters can use it to help control the zombie situation with a few well placed high calliber headshots? Slow them down a bit. I did the box thing on purpouse, a couple spare rounds in a box (especially for noobs), but the ammo is a bit of work to get. Pistols are everywhere, and ammo for them so easy to find in so many locations. Rifle ammo you tend to have to "buy" it in a box, so it's a bit more work to get at. --MrAushvitz 05:05, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Keep - Actually, Ron, rifles being accurate, is, in fact, accurate. *rolls eyes at self* Having to spend 500 XP is actually quite a substantial amount. So what if every level 36 survivor can buy it because of how much spare XP they have - they're not even a moderately-sized minority. And having 8 rounds in the gun and 10 rounds in the box would only be a problem if it reloaded 'all at once'. It specifically states in the suggestion that it reloads one bullet at a time. -Wyndallin 03:26, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Keep - Love it, the mix of shotgun and pistol, and nicely balanced. You got a keeper here Mr.A --Chineselegolas TMI 03:32, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  8. KillKeep - About average quality for previous kept new weapon suggestion. The reload thing is kinda weird, but ok. The 3 inventory spaces seems like a good way to keep it in check. Best MrA design to be sure. Now my vote may change because of other reasons later (mostly some details that still seem weird to me) It's not as good as I thought. Either I misred John Ember's stats, or they changed since, but I'm against adding a weapon with more damage than current ones. Also, stacking the search chances on top of the others is a problem I didn't think about before. (and honestly, most suggesters forget about that)--McArrowni 03:38, 23 April 2006 (BST) EDITED: McArrowni 15:30, 23 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - Right, sorry. I reworked the math a couple times. Check out the discussion page to understand how I arrived at those numbers. Don't take my word for it! --John Ember 16:38, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Keep Mr. A does have his good ideas sometimes...--'STER-Talk-Mod 03:54, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  10. KillIts not a bad idea, but for such a high clip capacity and accuracy I think it is just making the AP battery too big. People could search for this weapon for days, and when a siege came unload on a whole crowd of zombies. Its not really unbalanced in AP to damage, just in strategic value. --Zaruthustra-Mod 03:59, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Keep - It surely seems that Mr A, has let lose his best suggestion today BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 04:01, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  12. Kill - Massively overpowered compared to absolutely everything else in the game. Can you people please READ the suggestions rather than vote keep because something isnt complete trash? Huge clip size, massive accuracy, comparable find rates to pistols and shotguns. Not only does this increase the overall amount of weapons in the city by 50% (As you just add those search chances onto an existing roll. Furthermore the bargain hunting search chances are ridiculously high), but it beats any and every weapon hands down exp per ap. This is a horrible idea, and i am astounded people are voting keep for it. --Grim s-Mod 05:18, 23 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - They're reading it, and discussing specifics. Sorry man. +10% to hit compared to pistol and shotgun isn't massive accuracy, but it is better at hitting. The pistol you can just reload a whole clip for 1 AP, and you have another 6 rounds. The shotgun you can reload 2 shots for 2 AP. This weapon is not combat reloadable. Please look at it a 2nd time and reconsider it's usefulness. This weapon is good for "mowing down" a zombie's HP, the killing blow may be from another weapon entirely. (Holdout pistol, baseball bat, fireaxe, etc.) --MrAushvitz 05:05, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - See above. Velkrin 05:33, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - I like the idea and the costs involved. I think it should take more AP to shoot a hunting rifle that a pistol or shot gun which are close range hit whats in front of you weapon. A true hunting rifle takes a moment of time to sight in correctly before shooting. Edit - Forgot to Sign --Steel Hammer 14:42, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - Holy mother of god is this overpowered. - CthulhuFhtagn 05:50, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill - I look at it, and I think "If I was a maxed survivor with all skills, and I searched in a Mall, and I was able to find one of the three weapons at a Mall, would I be 50% better off then I am now?" Because if you don't care what you find in a Mall, then increasing the ultimate amount of weaponry you can find is a bad idea for the balance rate. I would only support this if the Hunting Rifle ate up a section of the find rate percentage for the other two weapons. --Karlsbad 05:51, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Keep - Acully one of the few New Gun Ideas I like --Porgon 06:04, 23 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally - 9 Keep, 8 Kill, 0 Spam 08:26, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Keep - Nice idea. Zombie outnumber humans (its growing), 5.25 (4.5 flak) that holds 1.333 more bullets then a pistol is what we need. Compared to a shotgun 6.5 (5.2 flak) and a pistol 3.25 (2.6 flak) it is a decent mid range, and the bullets are a little hard to find for the reload, but its ok: 9% to find 10 (9%), vs the shotguns's 11% to find 1 (11%), and the pistol's 11% to find 6 (66%) (makes it a little easier to find the bullets then a shotgun, but the pistol is still easier, making for a full reload average of 20 AP for this (for a inventory full of them (not counting other items picked up) it would take 244 AP, vs the 21 AP for a shotgun (24 shotguns - 312 AP), and pistol - 11 AP (24 pistols - 243 AP).
    For those afraid of math, this means: A rifle will kill (on average) in 11 AP (12 Flak, 16 AP for a single rifle w/ 18 for flak), a shotgun kills in 8 AP (11 Flak, 14 AP for a single shotgun w/ 20 for flak), and a pistol kills in 16 AP (20 Flak, 18 AP for a single pistol w/ 23 for flak). Good gun MrAushvitz.
    --343 08:31, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  19. Kill - Unnecessary. Terrible implementation. —Xoid Talk 09:04, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  20. Keep - Yeah ok I like it, you have thorhgt about this a little bit at least. so meh go to town. Nazreg 09:23, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  21. Kill - The shotgun is better. Just load up on 25 fully loaded shotguns and you'll be good. - Jedaz 09:37, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  22. Keep - a good idea, a sinper weapon would go down well. We could even look into shooting into bordering subs if the gun was integrated successfully to strat with. HerrStefantheGreat 12:30, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  23. Kill - The game doesn't really need another firearm. The restriction from being able to load the weapon while facing a zombie isn't that big of a deterrent, you can overcome this by having more than one rifle in your inventory. In any case, you wouldn't want to waste more than a couple AP to load a weapon when being attacked, it's more prudent to run. The shotgun in comparison has a more balanced implementation. It causes higher damage than the pistol, but is limited in the rounds that it can fire. Ignoring Accuracy, a Pistol can do 30 HP damage per clip, a shotgun does 20. You're suggesting a weapon that can do 56. Which makes it really overpowered as a weapon. Quasispace 12:40, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  24. Kill 75 % to hit, 7 damage, really high search rates and ridiculously high "damage per inventory space" ratio? Overkill. -Craw 13:07, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  25. Kill - 75% hit for 7 damage? No. Way. DavidMalfisto 13:32, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  26. Keep - I dont want to get Caught Not Reading so I actually read it, I am not happy with the 8 round per rifle, but to be honest the non combat loading makes it slightly fairer. Good on you. --Changchad 13:38, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  27. Keep - Read it, liked it. --Abi79 AB 13:54, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  28. Kill - I like it a lot, but it's just too powerful. Maybe if resubmitted at lesser accuracy (75% is too high) I'd go for it. The search odds I think are fine. --WibbleBRAINS 14:52, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  29. Keep- This is the best suggestion in a long time. seriously something for survivors, that isnt nitpicky or useless, not some nerf to any side like most suggestions noadays seem to be. very well ballanced I like that you cant reload it with zeds present, but it makes up for it with large power and acuracy, and a large capacity. Thanks so much for a useful and fun suggestion. --Kirk Howell 15:18, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  30. Kill - 75% accuracy is way too high--Mookiemookie 16:18, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  31. Kill - 75% accuracy?! 7 damage?! So what if it's hard to find, so what if it's hard to reload - a smart survivor could do way too much damage with this thing. --Private Oxymoron 18:47, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  32. Kill -75% accurescy 7 damage way to high and if your a milatarry class within a few days you;ll be abke to kill anyone who doesnt have a hunting rifleAvicm 18:51, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  33. Keep- I like it so that will be keep then. KyleTravis 19:17, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  34. Keep - Sounds good. One of the better ranged weapon suggestions. ---- Jack Brandenburg 15:33, 23 April 2006 (EDT)
  35. Kill - I was against it, looking at the accuracy. Then I saw the reload stuff, and I was for it except for one thing; I think it's inaccurate that you're unable to load it with a zombie around. Shotguns are just as difficult. I understand that it was an added attempt to nerf the rifle, but I think it's unnecessary as well as just plain silly.--Wifey 20:40, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  36. Kill - Making it need 5 skills does not make it fair and balanced. Eventually people will get the necesary skills, and many already have the xp to get those skills. Simply finding 10 rounds of ammo in a box, is too much. It is not necesary, and I think that people should just stick to their shotguns and pistols. I'm back. --Poodge 20:48, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  37. Kill - I have literally thousands of XP to spend. In a heartbeat I could have all those skills. With a short search I could have a rifle, and at 75%/7dam, zombies will fall like wheat before me. Cannot reload in battle? I can take 36 HP off of a flak jacketed zombie by average odds as it is. Not to mention that rifle skills will be a civilian skill because they're civilian weapons. I wasn't aware the military were fans of double-barrel shotguns and implied revolvers. --Snikers 21:23, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  38. Spam - Because I view this suggestion as below spite. Completely unbalanced, harmanz already have enough AP slingshots, etc. This will render the other guns obsolete in a week, not to mention the reloading system is arbitrary and largely pointless. The John Woo suggestion was better, and that made me want to jump you with a dentistry kit and do unspeakable things to your mouth. --Undeadinator 00:42, 24 April 2006 (BST)
    • Re - I get excited when I see a John Woo movie as well, but let's just leave the torture to my girlfriend, she's so much better at it. But in all seriousness there can be ways to balance (limit) this rifle suggestion even further if nessesary (take the clip size down by 1, or lower search % in malls, etc. My main reason to get that XP per AP closer to being on par with other "main" weapons.) I'm just paying very close attention to what most voters want (or don't want) with this weapon. I wasn't comfortable with a hunting rifle suggestion that didn't do more damage than a pistol and less than the shotgun, 7 seemed the best, most accurate number for damage. --MrAushvitz 00:50, 24 April 2006 (BST)
    • Tally - 17 Keep, 20 Kill, 1 Spam --MrAushvitz 00:59, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  39. Keep - Interesting, sort of like a Resident Evil weapon. This is easily the best rifle idea out there. --Mikhail Vicktor
  40. Keep-- I like it, its a good ranged weapon idea that has well tought outShenron 02:39, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  41. Kill Way to many skills that would need to be implemented for this to work --Lord Evans W! 03:54, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  42. Kill the accuracy is just way too overpowered, everyone would get his gun, and it would be crazier than a shotgun.--User:Redbeardo/Redbeardo
  43. Keep - Fits the game. Math Works! Great job. --Spraycan Willy MalTel 08:31, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  44. Kill Reduce the accuracy by 5% and make it so that it can only hold 3 or 4 at a time, and maybe it'll be more balenced... I'll do the numbers comparing it to the pistol and shotgun later, since I don't have time right now (or for just the pistol, since the shotgun's have already been given). --Volke 15:51, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  45. Kill Overpowered, even given the penalties (reloading 1 at a time, no reloading while zombies are present), people will find ways around the penalties and easily (fire off the 8 rounds, switch weapons then reload somewhere else). Reduce the ammo to 5 or 6 and the accuracy by 5% or even 10%.--Pesatyel 07:14, 25 April 2006 (BST
  46. Kill - too powerful. also, 'palatable.'--Bulgakov 08:43, 25 April 2006 (BST)
  47. Kill - First of all, you miss-spelled "nuclear bomb", and second, nuclear weapons do not belong in a zombie game. The overpowered level on this thing is just off the meter. On the other hand, if you're going to kill the game anyway, it would be sort of fun to see one PKer wipe out all of Caiger. --Dan 00:16, 6 May 2006 (BST)

Shotgun Ammo Boxes

Timestamp: 04:54, 23 April 2006 (BST)
Type: A box of shotgun shells (10)
Scope: A chance of finding an unopened box of shotgun shells!(Requires a skill to scrounge for them)
Description: I'm not looking to push my luck today, but this is much more likely to be a hit with shotgun fans than the bandoleer.

Shotgun Ammo Boxes

When the zombie "phenomenon" first hit Malton, everyone who could grab a gun did grab a gun. One of the #1 guns of choice that was grabbed without a moment's hesitation: The Shotgun.

Unfortunately a lot of shotgun ammunition was used up as quickly as possible in that first week of carnage. Now, for the remaining survivors that aren't in pieces, whenever such ammunition is located it is usually one shell at a time, scattered here and there amungst the rubble.

Game Mechanics:

Requires a skill to be able to find these boxes (often in the most unlikely or constantly overlooked of places.)

Scroungue: Ammunition

Appears under civillian skills tree, as a seperate skill. Applies no bonus to your zombie character. Only additional prerequisites are you must be at least level 5+ to purchase (experienced at digging through the garbage for equipment.)

  • In order for this skill to work you also need to have at least one of each of the following in your inventory at all times when you search the listed locations for this skill: Crowbar, Fireaxe, Wirecutters, Length Of Pipe. These items help you "facilitate" the extraction of the ammo boxes at times, from difficult hiding spots. (The inventory "savings" made possible by ammo boxes is balanced out by the fact that you have to carry these additional items to make these findings possible.)

Your character is adept at finding previously untouched boxes of ammunition in the most unlikely of places. You will need 4 pieces of equipment in your inventory at all times for scrounging: Crowbar, Fireaxe, Wirecutters, Length Of Pipe

Locations to find shotgun ammo boxes (These chances stack with your other chances, but this smaller chance, if successful, yields an entire box instead of a single shell.):

Mall Gun Stores (1%/1.5%), Armories (1%), Police Departments (1%), Mansions (2%), Junkyards (1%), The City Zoo (2%), Church/Cathedral (1%), Tower (1%), Arms/Club (1%), Auto Repair Shop (1%), Bank (2%), Warehouse (2%)

Whenever you find a shotgun ammo box the flavour text is usually something that seems a likely location that was overlooked "You found a box of shotgun ammunition inside a locked desk!" (some may be in the empty water resivoir of an "out of order" toilet, inside a hidden closet door, wall safe, inside a locked car trunk, and so forth.)

Shotgun Ammo Boxes; Usage:

A shotgun ammo box in your inventory simply takes up only 1 slot. It reads SG Ammo Box (10) which means it's a shotgun ammo box, and hold 10 shells.

When reloading your shotguns, you will always use single shells 1st (to make for more room in your inventory, obviously.) Only if there are no single shells remaining in your inventory does the computer dip into the boxes' reserves, taking out one shell at a time for reloads.

You cannot move single shotguns shells into a box, and when a box has it's last shell used it is gone from your inventory.


  • This skill, and the finding and use of these boxes is to make it easier to keep your shotguns loaded (if possible), if the need for this ammunition is important for your character. It also will save "space" in your inventory for other items (than shotguns and single shells) for other things as needed. (For example being able to do revives, more FAK's on hand, and so forth.) It also has an in game use for wirecutters, crowbar, length of pipe and fire axe for something other than just combat.. scrounging. A character who is not even combat skilled with a fireaxe may keep one around for the occasional locked apartment door.


  1. Keep - Author Vote. It's pretty simple, and I know shotgun shells are relatively easy to find. But a skill that allows you to find the occasional box would definately pay for itself many times over in XP and effectiveness, and make missing because of horrible luck in combat considerably less frustrating. You'll still miss, but at least you'll have some ammo left when you run back to your safehouse swearing profusely. --MrAushvitz 04:54, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  2. Keep - I was actually initially opposed to this because I was thinking that it was a wooden crate, for some reason. I don't mind this at all, actually. The low find rates make up for the plethora of shells. -Wyndallin 05:12, 23 April 2006 (BST) Kill Erm. I was for it until I reread it and saw where the ammo boxes were located. Armory, pubs, PDs, Gun stores only, please. -Wyndallin 05:14, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill - Great idea, but I'm in agreement with Wyndallin with the locations. But get rid of the skill. And the required items. Basically just have the boxes :D--Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 05:15, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - Massively overpowered! NO! --Grim s-Mod 05:29, 23 April 2006 (BST)
    • Please watch your edits, Grim. You removed my updated vote, as well as Bob's. -Wyndallin 05:35, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill - Finding one shell at a time is part of the the price you pay for using shotguns. Velkrin 05:37, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill - No. Bad MrAushvitz. No cookie. - CthulhuFhtagn 05:51, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - I like the idea that you can find a box of ammo and load 1 shot at a time. But needing a skill to find it seems kinda lame. --Porgon 06:05, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - Like the idea, but limit the locations to mansion, armory, mall, and PD. Dickus Maximus 06:19, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill - If I was blind then I would need skill to find one, but if you didn't notice I can just use my eyes! It's not like they are something that people would miss, considering after all you can find a single shell anyway. - Jedaz 09:41, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - I would vote keep if you just deleted this created a revision with less areas to find( far less maybe 4 areas tops and rather often hit targets like the pd, armery, the mall and the maybe a junkyard for the odd some chance lucky find) and the removal of the skill. --ramby T--W! - SGP 10:10, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Kill - this would only complicate the relatively simple proceddure for finding ammo. HerrStefantheGreat 12:37, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  12. Kill - I like the overall concept and can see what you are trying to accomplish with the skill etc, but I think the way we have to search for ammo now is part of the game concept that Kevan intended and we need to deal with. --Steel Hammer 14:53, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill -i believe Kevan wanted you to have to waist ap and inventory space for ammo it makes it feel more like a survival gameAvicm 18:59, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - Avicm said it best.. --Poodge 20:49, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill No, this is just a bad idea. Rarely occuring items that have a huge bonus are a no-no. AllStarZ 22:43, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Kill - Why don't you just implement pack mules and have it done with, Rambo. --Undeadinator 00:39, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Kill - No more ammo box suggestions, please.--Mookiemookie 04:01, 24 April 2006 (BST)

Tangling Grasp Adjustment

Timestamp: 13:22, 23 April 2006 (BST)
Type: balance change/improvement
Scope: Zombies and Humans
Description: Hopefully this isn't currently implemented(I don't believe I've seen this in action). Basically my suggestion for adjusting Tangling Grasp is that once it is active (Zombie has a hold of a human/victim), syringes can no longer be used to combat revive the attacking zombie. The player would receive a message along the lines of "Your body is being crushed by a zombie and can not accurately insert the syringe". In addition to "makes sense", such a alteration rewards a feisty zombie for attacking when it sees food. This change doesn't prevent a human player from attacking with punches or weapons, only from using an item that is supposed to be specifically placed to use. Nor does this change completely prevent a combat revive, it merely makes it more difficult for a player getting attacked to use it.


  1. Keep Author Vote. Don't really need to say much. Hopefully people don't think it's overpowered. Quasispace 13:22, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  2. Kill I move one space away and then back. Woot combat revives cost two more AP. DavidMalfisto 13:35, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  3. Kill - And why doesn't it effect other things such as shotguns, pistols and axes, people don't want to hit a friend accidently. Don't nerf NT guys any more then has alredy been done. - Jedaz 13:45, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  4. Kill - If I see a zed attacking me, at the current cost of APs, I won't revive it to save my APs and get away from it, and maybe only after that go to a revive point to use the syringe on someone who really needs it. --Abi79 AB 14:00, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  5. Kill As has alreay been said, it should affect multiple things, such as shotguns, axes and so on (very hard to use when a Zomie has wrapped its arms around you) as opposed to a little syringe which could probably be stuck into any blood vessle and still work. Seems like a new way of screwing scientists to me. Just out of interest, are you a Zombie player? HerrStefantheGreat 14:23, 23 April 2006 (BST)
    • Primarily, I'm a Human Player. I've been a zed a couple of times and chomped down on some bodies living and dead. The Syringe Flavor text generally says that you jam it in at the base of the skull. My idea about just limiting it to Syringes was that other actions against an attacking Zed wouldn't need to be precisely aimed. It doesn't really matter where the axe/knife/bat or bullets go. Quasispace 05:35, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  6. Kill Reasons already listed ... --Steel Hammer 14:49, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  7. Kill - Ditto Steel Hammer's vote. --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 15:08, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  8. Kill - I don't even think I have to say it. -Wyndal (talk)-(W!)-(SGP) 15:15, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  9. Kill -i agree with the other people if that change was implemented it would have to affect other things as well like movement which would make it overpoweredAvicm 19:02, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  10. Kill - Real time combat is rare. Combat revives are for pansies anyways. But this isnt the answer.--Mookiemookie 19:49, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  11. Kill - Lets just hate on syringes some more. Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate. --Zaruthustra-Mod 20:41, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  12. Keep - Maybe it's just me and my own bad luck, but I find that, at level 36, I just can't take down a zombie in 10 AP. I find it easier to just jab them with a syringe, if I have one. If I'm being grasped, it really makes it a bit silly. I mean, the thing has me by the shoulders ,and I'm trying to stab it in the back of the neck? What am I going to do, give it a hug?--Wifey 20:46, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  13. Kill - Necrotechs just got a revive disadvantage, I don't think they need another. --Poodge 20:52, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Kill - Heh, go ahead and combat-revive me. I'll stand up and shoot you. --John Ember 21:22, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  15. Kill - Most of the time your target is offline. I say if someone want to waste 30 AP to revive an angry zombie, let them. Velkrin 22:41, 23 April 2006 (BST)
  16. Keep It makes sense, hate to say. Other zombies scratch and bite at you, tangling grasp they're grabbing your arms and biting them if they get in the way. Tangling grasp zombies are harder to needle, if they're online and fighting you, what the hell! (It makes another skill have another "way" to avoid being revived, if you really don't want to.) MrAushvitz 00:43, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  17. Keep combat revives are bad mkay--xbehave 14:50, 24 April 2006 (BST)
  18. Kill Who says your arms are pinned (from using a syringe) when you can still use weapons? Who says the needle has to go into the head/neck when you can just jab it anywhere (in fact, if syringes had a hit%, I'd say they'd get a bonus).--Pesatyel 07:21, 25 April 2006 (BST)

EXP for Barricades

Duped with 1 author keep and 8 of the Big D's.--'STER-Talk-Mod 01:38, 24 April 2006 (BST)

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