Talk:Creedy Prison Experiment

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I AM IN!

man, we should see if we could get some serious hordes in there, like RRF and stuff. We need to get this all over the PKer network..we do have a PKer network right? If not, we need to get one. Seriously, if all the PKers in Malton got together...then this becomes viable!

Obtruncare Trecncoatarium!(Slay the Trenchcoaters! in Latin)

I'm right in the belly of the beast, in the armoury. I am currently biding my sweet time, acting as one of their own before this great, diabolical plan comes to take me along.--Shotstol 00:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I too, am hiding. Im stocking up on guns and ammo...... -doc crook 15:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Viva La Revolucion!

Ned Edderson has currently been hiding under the very nose of the enemy, in the heart of their greatest treasure, Fort Creedy itself! Though I prefer to work alone, I will gladly participate in this plan in any way I can, be it murder of mischief, for the sake of the revolution! Viva la Revolucion! --Ned Edderson 13:52, 5 September 2007 (BST)

==brainROT RUM ☣

could have some fun...==

Given one condition. If anybody wants to be released, they can be- if they buy brain rot. Then we'll scan to confirm (or just check a profile link), kill them, & drag their body out.
Can you DO that if the gatehouse is EHB? Because if you can't, we'd be stuck in there with the zombies if we died. No way to revive a rotter inside the fort.
If that condition isn't acceptable, or isn't technically feasible, brainROT RUM ☣

would likely have to pass.      SIM Core Map.png Swiers 04:02, 17 August 2007 (BST)
I guess I can go test the effect myself by barricading the gatehouse past VSB and then trying to drag a body from the fort. I need to stock up on ammo anyhow, visiting the armory would be nice. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 11:29, 17 August 2007 (BST)

I really like the idea of forcing trenchies to buy brain rot. That'd be hilarious. Any results on dumping bodies whilst EHB? I think it should be possible. -- Bob Fortune 13:33, 22 August 2007 (BST)

Sounds like a Larf: Red Rum

I've got no idea how many of our delightful fellows would turn up, but I'm sure they'd find it amusing. I'll chuck it up on the forums for some tender love and attention. --Karloth Vois RR 03:31, 17 August 2007 (BST)

Gaping hole in the plan?

Survivors in general can free-run into the fort and revive the "prisoners", can't they? Not saying I would, but somebody will.
Anyhow, do some scouting and get some numbers; just how many survivors are we talking about killing / keeping walled up as zombies? If its 50, that's one thing; if its 200, that's entirely different. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 20:52, 16 August 2007 (BST)


First - thanks for responding. The Gatehouse cannot be free-run into. Also, it's the only way in. See here. As long as the Gatehouse is kept above VSB, no-one gets in or out. Regarding numbers, I'm planning on scouting the fort tonight, will put some figures up tommorrow morning if all goes to plan. -- Bob Fortune 22:09, 16 August 2007 (BST)

So the "wardens" are locked out if the leave to get any supplies... not that they should need them, if they can hold the Armory and Infirmary. Hmm... SIM Core Map.png Swiers 23:18, 16 August 2007 (BST)
That is a potential downside, but as you say - the Armoury and Infirmary should hold everything the Wardens need. If there's enough Wardens, it shouldn't be that difficult to keep hold of the buildings. The Prisoners will have to decide whether to spend their AP attacking the resource buildings, or trying to escape. At the worst, if an internal building should fall, it'd be unlikely that any Prisoner would possess the ransack skill.
If the Wardens come well-prepared they should be able to hold the fort for quite a while. A lot of this would of course depend on numbers, as mentioned above. Was thinking though, bodies can now be dumped outside the gatehouse. If the fort had say 80 defenders, and it was only thought feasible to imprison 50, the remaining 30 could be thrown outside during the first phase. -- Bob Fortune 23:40, 16 August 2007 (BST)

Hm....

I like this plan...

I have my PKer character in Dulston, but he could be moved, but I also have a zed character thats freelance and bored.

Which do you need more?

ShinobiSlider 23:28, 16 August 2007 (BST)

Side note! I just posted a link in the MBEK forums, so ill see how many from there want in. ShinobiSlider 23:37, 16 August 2007 (BST)


Thanks for the support! At the moment, I'd say the PKer would be most useful. I've not heard back from any of the zombie groups as yet, but I figure that LUE will want to smash Creedy again sooner or later - now that the update has taken place and the trenchcoaters have declared forts to be invincible. If/when they turn up, they'd be all the zombies we'd need. Also, a PKer could have more to do during the build-up. If this does go off, it'd be great to stick ominous tags round the place before the event, telling the 'coaters just how screwed they are etc. -- Bob Fortune 23:49, 16 August 2007 (BST)
Ooooh, shiny! Not really, but hey, it's a good plan! I might show up with my lower level PKer. He could use the fun.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 23:55, 16 August 2007 (BST)


I like it. Too bad I dont have anyone that could help. Good luck to you if you do try and make it work. Tordeck 17:27, 27 August 2007 (BST)

Mad idea, ill show up with my PK dude if u want it, hes only level 10 or so but hes pretty new. --Evans121 05:22, 5 September 2007 (BST)

I was just looking for something to do while newbies level up!

You can count Divum Viridis in, well the veterans at least. Wait... :( RotRum might be participating... if so, we can't... I like the plan though. -- SgtBopTalk|Maris Viridis 07:18, 17 August 2007 (BST)

Please explain?

What is there to stop a strike team of say three CDF people of breaking the ehb cades with crowbars and reviving people inside the mall, then the revived peolpe would revive people until everyone was reviving. --Thekooks 23:03, 18 August 2007 (BST)

Nothing, except the Wardens would be trying to keep the gatehouse HB+ at all times and you'd have people inside the fort to kill any survivor-friendly people there. It could happen, but it would require strong co-ordination and organisation, which isn't something trenchies are known for. I'm in, and I might be able to convince a handful of others to help out too, either zombies or PKers. It'd probably be best for the attacking forces if they were pre-assigned to a role: those who start with lots of guns would best fall back to the gatehouse duty because they won't have revives/first aid, and there should be a bunch of dedicated revivers to make sure the Wardens don't get trapped too. --David Suzuki 00:08, 19 August 2007 (BST)

I'm in

I'm not speaking for LUE but I have a PKer character in the general vicinity who's definitely in if we do this. LUE Crystallina 22:00, 22 August 2007 (BST)

I do have a suggestion. If you have a fake RP set up but nobody ever gets revived, the trenchies are going to figure things out. Plus it isn't realistic. Part of the fun of RPs is watching everyone else getting revived but you. Therefore, you need to revive Wardens or willing Horde members who will then become Wardens. You can have someone come in with a crapload of syringes (or multiple people would be even better) to do this. The revived Wardens can pretend to be trenchies (possibly with appropriate dialogue) after getting revived to up the realism factor. LUE Crystallina 22:15, 22 August 2007 (BST)
That is a truly evil idea - brilliant. The Wardens posing as trenchies bit made me laugh out loud. Welcome aboard! -- Bob Fortune 22:24, 22 August 2007 (BST)

The View from the Trenches

CDF and CGR now have erected a permanant cease-fire, and would easily ally against your plan. This means you'll have to deal CGR AND CDF. Taking the fort and holding it as one side is a chore as it is. Trying to hold it AND enact this plan at the same time is impossible. It WILL NOT work. You may take the fort for a short time, but we'll retaliate and shut it all down.

You need numbers and coordination rivaling LUE's to pull this off. (the preceeding unsigned comment was the work of one Tryce of Thunder)

Or we could see if we can get LUE. They deserve to be invited. =Doc Crook 22:43, 24 August 2007 (BST)
Pfft. You couldn't get LUE to cooperate. They would bust into the fort, ransack everything, and chill for a day. You tell them to help out, they'll do the oppisite. You tell them to stay away, they'll screw everything up. Even if someone casually mentions the plan, as if in passing, they'll barge right in. Tryce of Thunder 19:35, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Below are a few comments which were added onto the main Prison Experiment page:


I think you're a douche. However, it's a pretty interesting twist to the game play. 11:40 PM EST Aug. 21st Concerned Citizen
Tut, tut, tut. Some people have no manners. I asked for comments on the Talk Page. This is a prime example of why the proposed re-education is vital. -- Bob Fortune 13:31, 22 August 2007 (BST)

The Fortress shall never fall to like likes of the zombie kind. BTW I like the use of Special Black Op Ninja Shadow Marine Sniper Corps, if you could use that more often rather then 'trenchcoaters'... We'll remember this whole plan to 'educate' us next time you guys break open a mall, really, were just playing the game ydnaada 7:26 PM 23, August 07- PCT

Breaking open a mall? I think you do confuse me with the living dead! I don't need to break open malls - I have Free Running. -- Bob Fortune 18:29, 25 August 2007 (BST)
Talking on an article? THIS IS MADNESS! -- Bop 04:25, 24 August 2007 (BST)
This is the funniest worst thing I have ever heard. I will openly participate in it, changed mind, with doc crook. But I wont kill anybody. I'll heal the wardens and cade. =doc crook 23:32, 4 September 2007 (BST)
Thankyou, good Doctor. Our numbers are growing, and in the Fort, the trenchies are starting to panic... -- Bob Fortune 18:29, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Some survivors have zombie skills because they have already bought the survivor tree out. So we will deal with some resistance....=Doc Crook 19:00, 25 August 2007 (BST)

Obviously special care would have to be taken so that some of the more organized local groups suffer particularly hard as the fort is destroyed so that they can't interfere too much once the process begins. Perhaps a large scouting effort by a number of PKer groups who would then ensure that members of things like the CDF all die fairly early in the zombie attack would be necessary. Shaggy123 12:11, 27 August 2007 (BST)

Griefing

Considering you are planning to prevent people from leaving the forts, and therefore refusing to alllow them to play the game. I see this as griefing. And since you seem to think that's okay I guess you wouldn't mind if the defenders zerg like hell and ruin your little scheme. If griefing is legit then zerging is a legit way of countering it.

--Rogue 22:11, 1 September 2007 (BST)
And I suppose you feel then that not allowing zombies inside a mall is ALSO griefing? No? Can you please explain the difference? The exact same mechanics are at work in both cases. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 23:24, 1 September 2007 (BST)
Harmans want to keep zeds out, we now want to keep them in....=doc crook 00:18, 2 September 2007 (BST)
Well, not the exact same mechanic... a zed who is repelled from a mall can simply go elsewhere and try again. If you actually could trap somebody in the forts (which you can't, so it's just a hypothetical) then doing so could reasonably be called griefing, because you'd be preventing that character from taking any further actions (I mean, they could still take actions... gnaw cades inside the fort, etc., but nothing meaningful), and strip them of their right to freely control their character within the expected limits of competitive gameplay. You would be harming an individual character to the extent that you essentially forced them to rerite the character. That's griefing.--Father Thompson 21:43, 4 September 2007 (BST)
Actually, the players imprisoned in the forts do have choices other than retiring their characters (is that what you meant? It's hard to understand... Odd, I expected more from the man who so magnanimously critiqued Karek's grammar on the suggestion page, hmph). the choice is to play like an organised zombie horde. frankly, even without vigour mortis, 200-300 zombies smashing barricades? they'll break out. I doubt the imprisonment, even if successful, would last long... But it's the thought that counts! --WanYao 12:27, 12 September 2007 (BST)
That's a potential route to victory, provided the prisoners coordinate and out-compete the wardens. Not a freely available option to individual players. If the plan succeeds, and the wardens "win" (which is not likely to occur, but which is a fair assumption to make for the purposes of deciding whether or not the plan is a plan to grief), the players can only shamble around inside the fort gnawing cades. In every other type of conflict, a player can withdraw from a loss and start over elsewhere: this is designed to block that option. The entire concept is griefing. But I did word that poorly- the phrase "preventing that character from taking any further action" is misleading. I agree that it almost certainly won't work, but if it could I think that it would clearly be griefing- because it significantly reduces the control that a player has over their own character, and should expect to have within the reasonable bounds of competetive gameplay, not simply by coincidence, but by design. It would be the most interesting form of griefing in the game, but griefing nonetheless. I hope that I've made my opinion and reasoning more clear. And I did apologize to Karek in my response, you know.--Father Thompson 17:27, 19 September 2007 (BST)

I've never been much for PKing, but this sounds awesome. If I have time I'll participate. Also, you might want to weed out any with Zed skills (ransack) and throw their bodies outside, otherwise, this could become quite screwed up. Lightman 03:04, 2 September 2007 (BST)

Or just make sure that they do not take the buildings.=doc crook 15:41, 2 September 2007 (BST)

Claims my brilliant plan won't work

One does not need to break down the gatehouse cades to enter from the inside. Moving onto the gatehouse from any square within the fort automatically places you inside of the gatehouse. You do not need to lower the cades to leave the gatehouse once you're inside, you only need to click on an adjacent square outside of the fort. So, there's really no way to trap anybody inside of the fort. They can just walk out, no cade bashing required. Sorry, woulda been interesting.--Father Thompson 16:02, 4 September 2007 (BST)

I'm at Perryn with my GKer alt. I raised the gatehouse 'cades to Heavy, then clicked on one of the squares outside the Fort. I didn't go anywhere, and received a message along these lines:
"There is only one way out of the gatehouse, and it has been heavily barricaded."
The plan is both water- and trencher-tight. -- Bob Fortune 22:43, 4 September 2007 (BST)
There are too many survivors in the fort, and let's say you drag out, oh... I don't know, 200, which is less than what the armory have currently, there still will be too many survivors inside. And let's not forget that people can just walk into the gatehouse from the inside, so the wardens can't stay in there. And sooner or later, some of the non-trenchies(a lot of people there aren't trench coaters, you know) would make a wiki page about getting out of there, and the few wardens can't stop that from happening.--Gunship Bruce 01:31, 6 September 2007 (BST)
Yes we can. =doc crook

A few questions

So I really like this plan. I have a non-PKer survivor in Creedy, but if you guys actually pull this off and I don't die trying to stop you, I'd be happy to help the wardens out in the name of science and fun. My questions are few, but they do exist. First of all, I'm sure you're aware that there's over five hundred people in Creedy. Even if they each only had a 25% hit rate, which I'm sure is not the case, that's a lot of people bashing at the Gatehouse. How would you stop them from getting out? After all, this wouldn't be like a seige whrre once they got in you could fight them off. They would be making a break for it the second the cades were down. Also, many of the prisoners might have built up XP over time by refusing to buy Zombie skills, which they could use to buy Ransack or combat skills that could lead to the Armoury or, Heaven forbid, the Gatehouse falling. How do you seperate these guys from the people who wouldn't be hard to contain? Finally, wouldn't it kick ass if the trenchers became so re-educated that they attacked eachother and the occasional warden for gradual XP, started seiging the armoury and other buildings to attack the wardens for XP, and eventually became a massive horde of former-trenchers? --Xshu 09:40, 5 September 2007 (BST)

As a quick reading of Xshu's questions show, your plan is flawed in several ways. Just to add another hole to your already-Swissed plan, what if, say, the Creedites were to enlist the help of local groups for revives, then returned to the Fort and zombified the Wardens inside? Furthermore, what if they then leave a 'cading force for all of the hordes and wardens, effectively turning Creedy into a Zed Prison and turning the tables on you lot? Aronjjxi 02:21, 6 September 2007 (BST)

Firstly, if the 'cade teams keep the gatehouse at above VS+2, no-one is getting inside to revive the Prisoners. Secondly, why would any local group want to help the Creedyites? All they do is sit in the Fort, spam the radio, and bitch about not finding enough guns in the armoury. When the Retake the Malls Tour needed help, Creedy just sat there, 20AP away, and let the zombies smash Tynte again. 500 survivors playing smart could have a shot at turning Ridleybank green. But no-one in the Fort seems to care. Give it a couple of weeks, and the local survivor groups may well sign up as Wardens...--Bob Fortune 11:53, 6 September 2007 (BST)
First of all, you failed to actually respond to me, and instead responded to the fellow below me. I assume this was either just an honest mistake, or that you don't have any answers for me. Second of all, people would come to help Creedy for the same reason people still come to help Caiger. Even if everyone inside is generally disliked, survivors still don't want to see an important building fall to the zombies. In addition, the wardens have the unfortunate task of keeping the barricades not only up, but at higher than VSB+2 at all times. This would make breaking into the place zombie style with axes and crowbars a hell of a lot easier.--Xshu 04:15, 7 September 2007 (BST)
Sorry, Xshu, been meaning to respond to you. I was busy yesterday, and your questions require a more thought-out response. When I first conceived the plan, there weren't 500 people in Creedy. Having spent a couple of weeks in the Fort, I conclude that most of the people there are just lazy sheep. They camp in Creedy because it's safe. Once the zombies break in, they'll scurry away somewhere else, possibly to Fort Perryn if it's standing. I haven't received much feedback from zombie groups about the plan, however I reckon that sooner or later Creedy is going to get eaten, just to show that it can be done. The swarm of ferals following the strike horde should, if they're smart (which zombies tend to be), take out the NecroTechs in the surrounding suburbs. This would force most of the now-dead Creedyites to shamble somewhere else in order to get revived. Once only a few remain in the Fort, we'd strike and put the plan into action. The higher-level, coordinated players would probably be on their way to a revive point, with only the stupid ones staying in the Fort. This could be helped by setting up a phoney revive point inside the Fort, like Extinction have done in the North West of Malton.
I don't think Creedy will become another Caiger. Check out the RTMT page, even the pro-survivor types are getting sick of them. One guy on 26.70 MHz keeps calling the place "Fort Complacency". I doubt the pro-survivor groups would join us, but I also doubt that they'd bother trying to stop us.
I'm not sure how long we could keep the Prison secure, but I reckon that it would serve as an important message to Trenchcoaters everywhere. And yes, having the 'Coaters reform into an undead horde would rock. Hope that answers your questions. --Bob Fortune RR 17:40, 7 September 2007 (BST)
No problem. You answered my questions. Thanks, and good luck killing me and everyone in here with me. It'll be great to be a part of such an experiment.--Xshu 00:57, 10 September 2007 (BST)

Grateful for your work

Haha, you guys are really gonna be contributing well to this game if you manage to pull it off. I'm a survivor in Giddings getting increasingly pissed off by all the radio spam, so a week of peace and quiet would be more than appreciated. If you need a reviver/healer for your wardens, I'll be more than willing to help, but I won't be shooting at anyone though, wardens or prisoners. Ykl 16:08, 6 September 2007 (BST)

Tips

I would consider not breaking the generator in the Gatehouse when the fort is first hit. If the generator is destroyed, it will alert the 300+ trenchers in the Armoury that something is up. Keeping the generator online will allow a chunk of them to just sit in the Armoury thinking everything is fine and gathering ammo. Besides, it's not like much can be found in the Gatehouse.--Xshu 00:53, 11 September 2007 (BST)

An opinion nobody cares about

It's a bit sad to see survivors supporting this. Zombies, sure. PKers, probably. Death cultists, it's expected. Survivors? If you stand back and look at this plan, trapping them in Creedy, (Don't get me wrong, I really hope the people in Creedy stay in Creedy) would cause a huge resource drain as soon as a few survivor groups decide that it would be fun to retake Creedy for the sake of retaking Creedy. Furthermore, I agree with FT, this sounds a lot like griefing. (The Mall argument is a weak one, at least you can move away if you want to.) That may contradict my first bracketed comment, but at least they have the option to move if they wise up. (It's a late, sorry if my grammar is a bit off.)--Labine50 MEMS | MHG 05:21, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Another problem with this plan

Since it is possible to ransack a barricaded building that has no survivors, wardens would have to hold the gatehouse by acting as meatshields. The prisoners would be able to attack them without going through barricades and probably earn plenty of exp and enjoy it. If all the wardens left the gatehouse, it would quickly be ransacked and the prisoners would escape.Studoku 19:05, 1 October 2007 (BST)

The 151st Position

I the leader of the military coalition, The 151st Brigade think this is an extremely inhuman way to treat the POWs, Zombies, and criminals of Malton and the Creedy area. If this does go into effect the Fort will become a tool of tyranny and not a beacon of hope to passing surivors that survived the first wave of infection. We must preserve the Fort as a Symbol of hope not a tool of a sick mind If you are with me, join the 151st Alliance.

B0ba Fett 16:45, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The Fort is just a big glowing neon sign for zombies. Perryn has been in and out of zombie hands over 30 times and Creedy is a similar story. only trenchies, newbies and groups attempting to make it a better place than it is now stay there.--Doctorgun 10:30, 13 October 2008 (BST)

Muahaha!!!!

YES!!! I will join you!!! But, I don't have a group. BoboTalkClown 14:38, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I like it. But it would require many many people. You need to get a horde onside...with time 2 Cool might be interested in such a project, currently however we are otherwise occupied.--Jed 12:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I like it alot

Consider Carl Streator to be in!--Normal PhobicC 16:11, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Good Luck

Won't happen the CEC will make sure the barricades stay at reasonable levels. So this little experiment will never be more than a daydream.

Still active?

Is anyone still using this or have the members of UD forgotten? Nemesis645 13:37, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I'll do it

This is quite possibly the BEST IDEA EVEEEEEEEEEEER I wish I had control over a large group. I'd bust the barricades down in an instant and all those trenchie bastards would be begging to be alive again. Oh, the laughs that would come from this. And also, to the idiot who said this is griefing...WHO CARES? It's TRENCHCOATERS. If anybody in the entire game deserved to be peed on, it's them. I suppose, then, that them spamming the radio, insulting other players, EH-bitching and having that holier-than-thou attitude isn't griefing, then? It's tit for tat. You grief us, you get griefed, then we're both griefed and we can wipe our hands clean -- Chekken 04:54, 8 August 2009 (BST)

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