Talk:Suggestions/10th-Oct-2006
Crossbow
| Timestamp: | Canuhearmenow Hunt! 22:03, 10 October 2006 (BST) |
| Type: | New Item, new skills. |
| Scope: | Powerful weapon, with a catch... |
| Description: | This is part 2 of my "Silence Is Golden" Series of suggestions. This adds the Crossbow to the game, first I'll state search rates, the search rates are as follows for Crossbow/Bolts; 3/3% Mall Gun Stores, 2/1% Mansions. The Crossbow is a 2 inventory item that a player can only have one of, no 3 or 4 Crossbows. The Crossbow Bolts are individually loaded into the Crossbow, and the Crossbow can only be fitted with one bolt at a time, Bolts are a 2 inventory space item that have 5 "Rounds" it can load intot the Crossbow. The Crossbow functions with Headshot. The Crossbow has a damage total of 8 Damage, and the special thing is it's unaffected by a Flak Jacket, so it will always be 8 Damage. The Skills that are required are in the Civilian Tree, as this is a relatively Civilian weapon.
No Skills - 5% Hit total Basic Weapons Training - +20% to hit. 25% Hit total Outdoorsman - +25% to hit. 50% Hit total. Crossbow Proficiency - +10% to hit. 60% Hit total. So, as you see, the Crossbow has its niche, as a powerful weapon that's heavy, cumbersome, yet can kill a 50 HP Flak Jacket Zed as easily as a newbie zed. Any idea's on improving are appreciated. |
Keep Votes
- Keep - Author Vote, I would like to know if there's any changes needed.--Canuhearmenow Hunt! 22:03, 10 October 2006 (BST)
- Keep - Excellent, just excellent, the ammunition is heavy (5 shots for 2 spaces, not easy.) So it costs 1 AP each time you load it correct? 1 Change: I would suggest sports stores instead of gun stores (then it'd more likely to get keep votes from trechcoaters if it doesn't screw up their searching.) And make it possible to find in a museum with a reasonably decent chance.. then museums actually matter for something! (And it won't be a malls easier weapon.) --MrAushvitz 00:50, 11 October 2006 (BST)
Kill Votes
Against Votes here
Spam/Dupe Votes
Spam/Dupe Votes here
- No vote yet, just comment. When you suggest a new weapon, you need to provide the numbers and compare it to other weapons that are already available. If it turns out it's better than everything, it'll get spammed. If it's worse than everything, it'll get spammed. If it's in the middle, people may wonder what the point is. If you're suggesting (although you don't say so) that this is a silent kill weapon - then watch out, it's spam time again. --Funt Solo 22:13, 10 October 2006 (BST)
- THIS is why I suggested we change the template (below). But whatever.
- Another comment The math seems to check out, but people are generally against new weapons unless they fill a very specific niche between the shotgun and the pistol. The fact that it bypasses Flak Jackets also might turn people off. I'm just waiting to see what the majority of people think of this. -- Andrew McM W! 22:27, 10 October 2006 (BST)
I don't see the point, really. Being able to bypass body armor is the ONLY "positive" and even THAT isn't such a great positive. I know you intended all this stuff as "penalities," but they don't really work. Or make sense. I can carry 25 shotguns but only ONE crossbow? And, now that I think about it, this is just a shotgun with "clip" style ammo for inventory management. Thus, it is unbalanced in that regard.--Pesatyel 05:22, 11 October 2006 (BST)
I don't like this one for a few reasons.. 1 - Why would there be crossbows? And why would you find them in malls? This game is set in modern times not medieval. 2 - As Pesatyel said, its unbalanced. 3 - I doubt zeds with flak jackets will like this much, having their only armour ignored in hits against them.
And of course, i just dont see the point/need to add anymore weapons. Pistols and Shotguns are nicely balanced out.--Mr yawn 06:41, 11 October 2006 (BST)
Starting Items
| Timestamp: | Andrew McM W! 20:21, 10 October 2006 (BST) |
| Type: | Class Alteration - Survivor. |
| Scope: | New Items, or item changes to survivors. |
| Description: | I am proposing a change to the starting items of the character classes. There has been an influx of new items to the game, yet there has been no change to the starting items for months. My suggestion spreads out the items for new characters, making it easier for newer players whilst introducing them to game items. Each character gets three items each- one consumable plus two permanants. Cop: Currently starts off with a Pistol and a Flak Jacket. I would suggest adding a... |
Keep Votes
- Author I would appreciate what everyone can agree would be acceptable starting items for each class, and tell me what you think of the current ones I have. Keep in mind that when someone votes kill just because it is incomplete or a Dupe, I will be rendering said vote invalid because a)I am asking for help. b)It's the talk page. c)I have referenced my inspirations for this. Thanks. -- Andrew McM W! 20:21, 10 October 2006 (BST)
Kill Votes
Against Votes here
Spam/Dupe Votes
Spam/Dupe Votes here
- No vote as yet - but I'll repeat what I said on your talk page: some of the current items are temporary (pistol clips, FAKs) and some are permanent (flak jacket, DNA extractor). So, more worth should be placed on permanent items, which can be further categorized as useful (fire axe) or useless (wirecutters). Voters will take those differences into account - they may also take into account the difficulty of finding such an item by quoting search percentages. Just a few things to bear in mind. --Funt Solo 22:09, 10 October 2006 (BST)
- Okay, let's break it down, and for arguments sake to get some kind of numerical comparison, I'll call permanent items 2 points, and a temporary item 1 point - no points for a useless item and half points for a partially useful item. (I'm assuming that the weapons come fully loaded - I can't remember). With the numbers from that, the highest index is 5 points for Cops, Privates and Medics - so they don't really need anything extra (although you might want to swap stuff). We need to get the others up to 5. If the weapons don't come loaded, then the high index is only 4, which makes life easier.
- Cop: Pistol, Flak Jacket, 6 bullets [in gun].
- 2 perm, 1 temp - all useful.
- 5 points
- Firefighter: Fire Axe, Wirecutters.
- 2 perm - 1 useful, 1 useless
- 2 points, but swap wirecutters for a radio and it's 4 points. Add a Flare Gun (very flavoursome) and it's 5.
- Consumer: Mobile Phone.
- 1 perm - partially useful
- 1 point. God, but consumers are crap. They get nothing, and they can't free run into malls. I like my idea for giving them a random item or two - even if it might be a newspaper.
- Private: Pistol, 2 Clips, 6 bullets [in gun].
- 1 perm, 3 temp - all useful
- 5 points
- Medic: FAK, Pistol, Clip, 6 bullets [in gun].
- 1 perm, 3 temp - all useful
- 5 points
- Scout: Flare Gun.
- 1 temp - partially useful
- 0.5 points, but let's call it 1. Add in the binoculars from the other suggestion, that's 3 points. Add your GPS Unit and it's 4. Fuck, give him another Flare Gun and call it 5.
- Doctor: 2 FAKs.
- 2 temp - useful
- 2 points - more FAKs? A mobile phone? Bottle of wine? (Well, he is a doctor.)
- NecroTech Assistant: DNA Extractor.
- 1 perm - useful
- 2 points - syringe no good without lab experience. Give him a GPS Unit/Mobile Phone and 2 FAKs, or something, and it's 5.
- Corpse: nada
- 0 points
- Cop: Pistol, Flak Jacket, 6 bullets [in gun].
- Wow. That's incredibly helpful. The system I had been working out displayed different results in some areas, but yours works better. Right, a few points for you and the other voters: I picked a syringe for the NT Assistant as it is a supremely usefull item: but unusable. It gives him something to work foward to and means once he has bought the skill he immediately has something to use. It also keeps in flavour: He works in NecroTech-he handles syringes. He doesn't have the training for it, but it's there for when he needs it. I'm also think along the points system that the Medic gets the bullets removed and replaced with a Knife- not only does this still adds up to 5, it keeps with my initial plan of having 1 temp item and two permanant, it still allows them to gain XP, and it seperates them from the two other classes that have guns as starting weapons. Besides, a field medic would have a knife both for combat and surgery. I was thinking for the Consumer we could increase the usefullness of his shopping skill by giving him a fuel-can for the generator- thats 3 points, and to increase his communication skills and sense of being an ordinary citizen with the radio- adding up to 5 points, and giving him 1 temp and 2 permanant. Any preference for the waepon for starting zombies out of the crowbar and the lead pipe?-- Andrew McM W! 23:49, 10 October 2006 (BST)
The only problem I have is that you are only looking at the items, not the skills. Cops, Firefighters, Privates, NT Assistants and Corpses all start with exp gaining skills. Scouts have free running. Consumers start with a first-tier skill that is useless untill they get free running, Doctors and Medics start with skills that actually impede their ability to gain exp. Any point system would have to include the usefulness of these skills, and the synergy between the skills and the items (Obviously a Pistol is worth a hell of a lot more to a Private than a Consumer).I suggest expanding this suggestion to cover skill overhauls aswell, not just items--Gene Splicer 11:16, 11 October 2006 (BST)
Try this for a comparison of starting characters (as they are now):
Item Points System:
- Useless item: 0
- Temporary item: 1
- Permanent item: 2 (-1 if partially useful)
Skill Points System
- useless skill: 0
- useful skill: 1
- synergy with item: +1
- XP impedement: -1
- XP gainer: +1
- It's Free Running: +2
Going along with the peer reviewed suggestions (and my current one in voting), if we add binoculars to scouts, swap first aid for diagnosis for doctors and swap wirecutters for a radio with firefighters, we get the following (changes in red):
--Funt Solo 15:20, 11 October 2006 (BST)
(sign these please, I don't want to seem like i'm taking credit) I'd class Shopping as a 1 and first aid as a 0 myself. While shopping is no axe training, it comes in handy as soon as you pick up free running. At worst, it's not very useful. First aid actually makes it harder to gain other skills, and as such can be classed as an impediment to a new character as opposed to just "not very useful". Also, those tables are fantastic. Throw the finalised versions on your talk page to link them for the final suggestion. --Gene Splicer 15:15, 11 October 2006 (BST)
- Yes, I must agree. Thanks for the help. -- Andrew McM W! 15:17, 11 October 2006 (BST)
- My reasoning was based on what use these skills and items are to the new player. Under that reasoning, Shopping is useless (for a long time, until they get free running, as you say) but (for example) a GPS unit would be very useful to a new player who doesn't know where all the maps are or about the firefox plug-ins - I'd give it a 2. First Aid has been penalised - but it enhances the effect of a FAK, and is therefore useful to allies - who may then help the player. To that extent, I think it's worth a 1. The general feel of the values (whether first aid or shopping is 0/1) feels right, though - and it's clear that the consumer is horribly under-powered. --Funt Solo 15:25, 11 October 2006 (BST)
As a first draft look only, here's an idea for balancing:
- Knife is given to the doctor and medic, under the assumption that it's a medical equipment stylee knife.
- The percentages indicate that only one of those items will be chosen at random.
- I have no idea what to do with the consumer - my original idea was just a bunch of random stuff - with at least one definitely useful item.
- I'm really against giving the NT dude a syringe that he can't use.
- Doctor wine or mobile is just flavour - like he was on his way to a dinner party when the outbreak happened.
- Medic is a real jack-of-all-trades - lots of stuff but no excellence.
Anyway, that's that. --Funt Solo 15:56, 11 October 2006 (BST)
- Firstly: Kudos on your use of the word stylee. Secondly: I like the idea of him getting a syringe. It gives you an idea of what the "Advanced NT Equipment" actually is, and untill he picks up free running it'll be pretty hard to get a syringe in any populated suburb. If a group of friends decide to all start playing at once, a free "learning experince" death would be very educational --Gene Splicer 16:26, 11 October 2006 (BST)
I started as a NT, so the idea of getting a free syringe as something to work towards appeals to me, and it makes sense from an RP point of view as well. I'm unsure about giving them both a GPS unit and a mobile, though, as neither are that useful for new, non-metagaming players. Random chance for either works better. For the zombie items, getting a crowbar is a slightly unfair advantage, what with its barricade smashieness, but baseball bats and lead pipes have the same stats, so randomising them works fine. I don't think giving doctors wine is a good idea- it's unbalanced if one person gets a one-shot useless item and another gets a long-term useful one. The mobile makes sense, what with doctors being on-call and stuff, so I'd make that the only option. It means losing a bit of variety, so perhaps replacing a FAK with a book with a 50% chance might work, although that's still unbalanced. For consumers, possibly a crowbar? It would help them get into malls, and it could be something they've picked up for looting with. A radio or a fuel can might be good too, as both are needed in malls and make vague RP sense. -- Catriona McM 19:30, 11 October 2006 (BST)
- Okay, those others have convinced me about the syringe. I'm going to leave this alone now and let the original author use whatever he likes from what I chucked into the pot. If you want to use the table code, it's on my user page - help yourself.--Funt Solo 23:18, 11 October 2006 (BST)
- I like the crowbar for consumers, there's no PK zerging risk as a new Fireman still has better barricade smashing abilities, and it makes great RP. No amount of items will make Consumer a playable starting class, but we can at least try. I'd also like to see scouts get a knife, this would give every starting class (bar consumer) some form of reasonable exp gainer, which has always been the biggest imbalance between the classes. It also makes RP sense, as scouts would have some form of multipupose knife for emergencies, but eschew noisey firearms --Gene Splicer 10:11, 12 October 2006 (BST)
- With the scout, I overloaded Free Running with an extra point because of synergy with binoculars (?). Uh-huh. Anyway, knock that down to 3, take away the GPS, give him a knife. Totally rad. --Funt Solo 12:37, 12 October 2006 (BST)
- Or knock it down to 3, take away the flare gun, and give him a knife. I think a crowbar would work well for the Consumer class, and a radio would also work. That brings Consumer up to 4 points. Yay. Throw in a GPS in the deal, and you have 5 points. Another yay. Or toss out the GPS, throw in a knife, and you have 6! Yay... That's just my random idea. By the way, great work on this! -Mark 16:14, 13 October 2006 (BST)
