Talk:Suggestions/27th-Feb-2007

Grappling Hook

Timestamp:	Gateking 02:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Type:	New item
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	Basically a way into overbarricaded entry points. The GH would be a one use item that would give survivors a 50 percent chance to climb up above the 'cades (assuming the cades cover only the first/second floor entrances). Body building would increase that chance by ten percent, the logic being that increased muscle mass and health provides better accuracy/strength for the toss. It could be found in Fort armories at 10% (the military having need for scaling walls during covert ops stuff), Mall sporting good stores at 5%, and outside buildings at 1% (some people might accidently let them fall back to the ground after use). I apologize if the form is not correct. New at making suggestions.

Discussion

Barricades are fine, as far as survivors are concerned. This would just cause an increase in overall barricade levels. Yes, I'm aware there is only a 50% chance but THAT is pretty high and, once people have them, they will become plentiful.--Pesatyel 03:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, then. Give me a better number. I'm looking for how I might improve this. --

Gateking 10:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

That's just it, I don't believe this idea CAN be improved. As I said, what would end up happening is barricade levels overall would increase too high since more people would be able to get through at those higher levels. thus making it harder on zombies. Besides, survivors can already bypass ANY level of barricade via Free Running.--Pesatyel 03:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I take your point about making things harder for zombies, we don't really want that. As for the freerunning comment, I don't think it applies.This is about getting inside buildings above VS from outside instead of stumbling around looking for an entry point when the designated one is overcaded. --Gateking 10:46, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

That's just it barricade balance is a significant issue. As is AP management. The Free Running comment was about that for a network of free run zones out of, say 10 buildings, you only need 2 entryways. You can then Free Run into the other 8 buildings. Not to mention the fact you can LEAVE any building through any barricade. So survivors already have a significant barricade movement advantage. The cost is having to leave at least ONE barricade at no higher than VS. With this, you wouldn't need to leave ANY.--Pesatyel 03:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

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Dumping Bodies through Barricades

Timestamp:	otherlleft W! 13:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Type:	balance change
Scope:	Survivors in buildings
Description:	When in a building that is barricaded heavily or more, any survivor attempting to dump a body would randomly see a message such as, "You try to dump a body outside, but cannot find a way to pass it through the barricades," and the body would not be dumped. This is similar to the attempts to barricade beyond this level, and would use identical odds. This would realistically address how one cannot pass through barricades easily but can somehow shove a corpse through effortlessly. This would certainly make it more difficult to clear a building of bodies, but not so much as to fatally tip the balance away from the survivors.

Keep Votes

1. Keep Damn, why didn't anyone think of this before? Mind you now it's no longer 1 AP and dump like 8 bodies.. hmm. So there's a chance that your dump might not work, so it could cost more than 1 AP.. but you still can dump the sucker, eventually. That's liveable, punishment for protection. MrAushvitz 13:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2. Keep Guess I oughta vote for the thing. --otherlleft ^W! 14:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
3. Keep, but please clarify - All in all, I like this idea. Encourages strategy versus overbarricading following a break-in. But at first I thought you meant the message text would be "random", but that the effect is not random (i.e., NO corpses can be dumped if barricades are at heavily or more). But then I read MrAushvitz's comment above. If then the EFFECT is random, what are the odds -- how random are we talking? 50%? 10? 90? --Matt Scott ⁹ 14:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Clarified, hope that helps! --otherlleft ^W! 14:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. kill Would make it much harder keeping buildings zed-free. - BzAli 13:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2. Kill - Mall siege nerf, anyone? Besides, why can't you drag the body up to the roof and throw it off? Perhaps for a higher AP cost, but still. --Saluton 14:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
3. Kill - barricades are on the ground floor - doesn't stop anyone dumping a body out of a window. Body-dumping has already been balanced with the relatively recent change of 1/AP instead of 1AP for all bodies. It doesn't need to be anymore difficult. --Funt Solo 15:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
4. Kill A survivor spends 1AP to be absolutely sure of getting the body out an appropriately sized hole. --Jon Pyre 04:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
5. Kill and dump - Oh hell no! You just want a reason for people to barricade less. Besides, you have to figure that by this point in the zombie crisis, people have figured out how to dump bodies off the roof our out a window. --Uncle Bill 05:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
   

Spam/Dupe Votes
Spam/Dupe Votes here

Discussion

Sorry for insinuating that you edit the suggestion, as that is illegal -- I meant for some clarification in the form of an RE, but oh well. But even with your changes, it still seems unclear, especially here:

When in a building that is barricaded heavily or more, any survivor attempting to dump a body would randomly see a message such as, "You try to dump a body outside, but cannot find a way to pass it through the barricades," and the body would not be dumped."

It seems to say (to me) that the message is random, but that either way the body would not be dumped. I don't think that's what you meant. I know that you later say the odds would be similar to failed barricade attempts, but I know alot of people might stop reading before getting to that. It seems like something along the lines of this might work:

When in a building that is barricaded heavily or more, there is a chance that dumping a body would fail. The odds of a failed attempt would be the same as the odds of a failed barricade attempt, generating a similar message such as, "You try to dump a body outside, but cannot find a way to pass it through the barricades." You would be free to attempt to dump the body again, just as you are free to make further barricade attempts.

This would realistically address how one cannot pass through barricades easily but can somehow shove a corpse through effortlessly. This would certainly make it more difficult to clear a building of bodies, but not so much as to fatally tip the balance away from the survivors."

I think rewording it more clearly would solve the issue of people thinking this is a "mall siege nerf", which it is not. It would just take a few more AP to dump the body -- which realistically conveys dragging the body to the roof, etc. Might still not pass, but at least then no one would think you were saying NO bodies could be dumped after VS. --Matt Scott ⁹ 18:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I could see this BEFORE the (relatively) recent change. But 1 AP per body AND making it impossible at over VS? Too much.--Pesatyel 03:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Pesatyel, read his suggestion carefully -- that's NOT what it says. That's what I thought it said at first too, which is what I was just rambling on about in my last post. It's not IMPOSSIBLE at over VS. It has a failure rate at the same rate as attempting a barricade over VS. So there is only a chance that dumping the body will fail. If it fails you try again, just like barricading. This makes so much sense to me. If it gets that hard to find a spot for a new piece of the barricade, then it should logically be that hard to find a safe spot to dump the body from... Even if it means dragging the body upstairs. All this means is a couple more AP per body. --Matt Scott ⁹ 13:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I just thought of something else -- Feeding Drag for zombies only works when there are NO barricades AND when the door is OPEN... Of course harmanz are more agile than zombies, which is why this suggestion still isn't nearly as limiting as Feeding Drag is. When comparing the 2 as is, dumping bodies currently just seems broken without any limitations. Feeding Drag requires 2 skills, no barricades, and an open door (which even zombies with MOL can't open from the inside). Whereas dumping a body only requires 1AP at any barricade level. This suggestion just seems like a no-brainer to me. --Matt Scott ⁹ 15:37, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

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