Talk:Suggestions/8th-Nov-2005

Dismemberment

Repair Fence

If this one is resubmitted, perhaps you could consider making it so that anyone with the construction skill can repair a fence. (since 'fence repair' would be a weird skill all by itself) That way anyone with construction can repair it, people have a reason for wire-cutters, and can find a safer place to hunker down. As for the question of zombies getting in or out, would it be possible to have a "climb fence" button (like the "jump out window" button, you know - specific to some blocks only) on the fenced-in block as well as the ones surrounding? That way for an AP cost above 1, a zombie could still enter a fenced in area. Zombies would be deterred but not stopped entirely, the fence repair skill would come with Construction, and suddenly fences have a reason to exist. -- Amazing 02:36, 11 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Zombies would need a way to get through the fence though since locked fences cant be broken into by zombies. Its a good idea but a counter skill is needed for zombies. Like make the crowbar useful and put that skill under the memories of life tree or something. Also adds cariety a good suggestion it would be nice to see. GodofGames 02:29, 12 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Duffle Bag

Shovel

Preying or Hunting

I really believe in this Zombie skill, because in films you ALWAYS see zombified dogs, zombies swiping up a pidgeon, or rats running in hordes away from zombies. If it's silly every time a zombie eats an animal, I guess most zombie films are comedies? It's an alternative to digestion that doesn't require combat -- for the trade-off of a lesser benefit. Amazing

Don't get me wrong, i see where your coming from, its just... its boring. the reason they don't film it is because zombies eating animals is far less entertaining then watching people get eaten. and as far as this game is, we allready have digestion. and with just that one skill, you have a 1 in 10 chance of healing 4 points. Digestion really allready covers this, see? and Digestion is upgradable (when you increese the bite % to hit) while this isen't. --Spellbinder 05:28, 8 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I see all your points, yeah. I guess I'm looking at it from the standpoint of a 'search' command for Zombies. Not necissarily a main item of focus, just something to add additional means of regen to those either without digestion, or too little HP to go fight someone to digest. No worries though. Just thought it'd be a good suppliment for zombie regen, scraping for bits of nourishment to slake undead hunger and build up some strength. I'll take a long while to think about it (as well as my other suggestions.. ugh..) and see if it could be done better with a buncha revisions. We'll see. :) Amazing 06:01, 8 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I'm OK with the "munching on corpses" give a % chance of gaining 1 HP concept to equate to Zombie Healing. It's not necessarily "unfair". --Squashua 20:20, 16 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Extra XP for Extra Healing

Stamina

Weapon Harness

Rooftop Access

EDIT: I want to know, should changing from inside to rooftop take an AP? I think not since you technically aren't leaving the building.

In the end it's not our decision but Kevan's. Since it's an action that will hit the main script and that will be used very frequently, I'd say yes: from what I've seen so far the decision of having actions use an AP or not is taken from a development/support perspective, not from a "game reality" one. The goal is avoid overloads on the UD server. So if an action will be performed heavily, Kevan will make it cost an AP, else (see drop object action) it will not. --Seagull Flock 13:37, 11 Nov 2005 (GMT)

You make a good point --Vellin 21:01, 11 Nov 2005 (GMT)

if I've understood the description, shouldn't be difficult to implement: it would be almost the same as the "leave the building" feature. The small differences from the "leave" would be that the person on the roof shouldn't be visible to people outside, and is still considered by all effects as inside the building (he'd be visible to people inside and subject to attack by zombies inside). --Seagull Flock 23:36, 8 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I don't get how a zombie inside a building could attack someone on the roof, or how people inside could see you on top for that matter. Maby they could instead "hear" you walking around up there (just a generic "you hear someone walking around of the roof" message rather than see who is up there, or how many of them), and zombies could have a way to get up onto the roof. If you can be attacked and seen by those inside, you might as well just be looking outside the window.--Zeek 07:23, 16 Nov 2005 (GMT)

To be honest I'm more interested in the game mechanics than the skill naming: if we want to call it Window Lurk, fine with me. :) --Seagull Flock 10:27, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Should be a subskill of "Free Running," where, not only can you get on top of the roofs, you can also scout around up there, and scouts have this skill by default. It should cost 1ap to "scout from the roof," because this prevents all types of complications. --Bcrogers 18:45, 11 Nov 2005 (GMT)
- RE: I already have it set as a subset of Free Running, because you would obviously need the ability to climb over buildings to get to the roof.--

"Though might be over-powered when fighting on forts. "Hey Bob! I see 150 zombies coming. Let's Scram." When the zs come, they say mrh? because nobody is there.

-A: That will never happen. People are always going to not be logged in. People usually forsee the attacks on malls, yet people still get slaughtered. B: You can't argue that it doesn't make sense flavor wise though, honestly, your STUPID if zombies are coming and you don't want to be up on the roof. --Vellin 09:19, 13 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I like the concept, but maybe this could be restricted to buildings with multiple floors only? Some buildings could be made climbable, and then zombies with Climbing Skill (proposed in the votes under Repair Fences Suggestion) might be able to get up there. Look out! --Squashua 15:31, 14 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Why multiple floors? Every building has a roof, be it a one story building or a tower. And I don't like the climbing idea. The purpose of this is to let survivors gather intel without leaving the safety of the building. --Vellin 16:27, 14 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I could potentially see diffrent ways of getting up on the roof for diffrent buildings. Some may just have a staircase leading to the roof allowing any tom,dick&harry to go up easily from the inside, where others might require you to climb up the side of the building; which would necessitate the use of a special skill and possibly equipment (rope, ladder, grapple, ect) and have a higher AP cost, or there could be fire escapes that act like a staircase, but on the outside. The idea that you would be visible and attackable through the roof of the building by those inside seems wrong to me though. You might as well just be sitting next to the window. What might be better is that those inside simply "hear" the generic noises of people/person moving around above them, but have no idea who or how many are up there. You could still be attacked by zombies who manage to get up there with you, either through the use of one of the aforementioned staircases, or with some sort of new climbing skill. Then there's the idea of traveling by moving rooftop to rooftop, possibly through the use of a further subset of freerunning (with a healthy chance of falling to your death doing it).--Zeek 07:23, 16 Nov 2005 (GMT)

To be honest, when I originally designed the skill, I had staircases in mind, but most buildings with a roof have special locks on their roofs that survivors wouldn't be able to break through, BUT free running over rooftops and climbing up buildings WOULD let you get up on the roof. Ergo, I took that direction. I know that survivors being able to see you and zombies in the building attacking you doesn't quite make sense, but I feel since you are technically in the building, we need to be a little fair. Also, I am not a fan of the idea of zombies being dexterous enough to climb. Thx for the input --Vellin 19:57, 16 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Well, I have to agree with you about the idea of climbing zombies, but that's not necissarily the only way they could get up there. For example, I feel resonably comfortable with the idea that some zombies could potentially use the fire escape to get to the roof (perhaps with some sort of dexterity increasing skill). And as for the locks, that could at least temporarily revitilize the bolt cutter item, or add some utility to the crowbar. Or it could potentially generate such new things as lock picking skills (along with the apropriate item) or doorbusters (found in the police station).--Zeek 10:16, 17 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Maybe if it cost an AP to look, and only for the building you're in, not the whole neighborhood. --Dickie Fux 05:26, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)

You might as well just go outside. EDIT: I'm sorry, but if there is a large number of zombies, I'm running like 9 blocks and hiding in a library. --Vellin 14:10, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Not if there's a bazillion zombies out there. --Dickie Fux 17:25, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Some people might argue you couldn't peer out a window if you're barricaded in, so this would take care of that. I could see even maybe limiting the person to looking North, East, etc. if there was a concern about it being too powerful --Amanda J 21:11, 22 Nov 2005 (EST)

I really don't see this being an abusable skill. I mostly just see this as a way to help surviors in high profile buildings survive by having advanced warning of an impending attack. Also note that I don't support ideas like sniping and increasing the view range. Those are unbalanced.

Grave Misfortune

Notched Axe

Odor of Decay

Suggestion - Instead of looking like 3 Zombies, how about just change the interface in general so that all Survivors only see "Zombies" on adjacent blocks. Then create a new Survivor Skill (maybe Military-based; "Scouting"?) that gives a Survivor the ability get an accurate count of Zombies on adjacent squares (essentially giving the newly-skilled Survivor the view that had been taken away). How about them apples? --Squashua 20:49, 10 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Crazed Runner

Conceptually the mechanics behind this work perfectly and could alternatively be used to simulate a Motorcycle (2AP per 3 Move) or Automobile (1AP per 2 Move). The only issue is whether or not Kevan would want to introduce the "Running-Style" Zombies into this game. If he would, "Crazed Runner" would be a proper implementation based on the existing gameplay. If he didn't, this skill is essentially moot, but the concepts could be easily reworked for transports. --Squashua 13:08, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

while everything you said above is more or less correct, i'm going to attack the foundation of the whole post: who ever said we WANTED transportation? i would absolutly HATE the consept of getting one in your inventory (yea, i have 13 buicks with one of my characters) and if it turns into a limited item in game, don't you think people are going to try and hoard them? i meen, i can just see SERIOUS player frustration and possisiveness about transports. and griefers pileing there stolen cars all into one location thats full of zombies.--Spellbinder 23:13, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Maybe you don't want transports, but it seems like others do. And when the day comes to implement it, I would like to think that an iteration of the Crazed Runner concept could be used. Nonetheless, I'd like to think that transports could be implemented in a variety of manners and not just as plain old items like a crowbar. This discussion is kind of moot unless we direct it towards a post on adding transportation. Maybe I'll eventually write one. --Squashua 20:27, 10 Nov 2005 (GMT)

XP Gained Equals Healing Performed

The problem with this suggestion vs the stacked 5xp/10xp suggestion, is that people will only want to heal people when they can get the FULL amount of xp. so if your sitting at 41 hp, or heaven forbid 49 hp, nobodys going to heal you when they can heal some poor slob thats sitting at 35 hp. --Spellbinder 02:20, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I think you are underestimating the power of healing 10 hp per FAK. With that kind of healing going on, wounded people near FAK ressource buildings will heal up fast. And then there will be few people left to heal, so people won't be able to afford to be so picky. At least that's the way I see it. Not to mention newbies won't mind picking up the crumbs. --McArrowni

That might be part of the problem though. A little too much exp... :/ I dunno whether I like this idea or not. As a human playing doctors and NecTechs I like it, but from a balance perspective, it seems like too much of an exp grab. --Shadowstar 02:30, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Part of the problem might be the primarily 5-based damage system. IMO, it is not much of an extra load to randomize damage from a 1-X amount (pistols cause 1-5 points of damage, shotguns cause 2-10 points of damage, axes cause 1-3 points of damage, etc...) Anyway, people waiting for others to become wounded by a multiple of 5-10 could be considered selfish, and why would they just wait out the APs anyway? In the same train of thought, healing could be a random amount (1-5 without First Aid, 2-10 with First Aid). --Squashua 13:04, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

squashua, why don't you turn that idea into a suggestion itself? because THATS the kind of suggestion that needs to be put up for debate by the masses, not listing off all the reasons flamethrowers are unbalancing.--Spellbinder 23:19, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

The reason I haven't is simple; randomizing damage at this point would be considered a sweeping change, a major alteration of status-quo. That's very likely going to upset some people, but randomization was always key in RPGs. Heck, our chances to hit are randomized. Randomization on damage would be enabled in a better fashion if characters would be built from traditional RPG attributes (Strength, Agility, etc.) that would enhance the total (Strength -> damage modifier, Agility -> hit/targeting modifier). But, this game is currently too simple for such concepts. --Squashua 20:30, 10 Nov 2005 (GMT)

XP Reduced for Healing Zombies

It just makes sence.--Spellbinder 23:58, 14 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Container Buckets

Having a container in the open is a risk; essentially anything you put into it is subject to the risk of being taken by anyone else. So don't store anything personal in it. It would be a perfect repository for the overflowing Flak Jackets and empty firearms that litter the city. And limiting someone to require using an AP to take an item would discourage wasting APs. Also, the concept of Player 1 and Player 2 wanting to trade at the same time can be solved if Player 1 and 2 coordinate their actions via IM or another means. The chances of P3 coming by to steal all the items left by P1 to P2 within 1 minute of their coordinated drop-off are slim to none, especially if AP cost is involved. Also, if a textual alert system is established "Player 1 took a Pistol Clip from the Container", then fewer complaints could be made. In addition, if we use Bank Vaults for this... no one hangs out at Banks. They'd just essentially become useful trade depots. --Squashua 13:13, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Fire!

'STER...I liked the previous version on the Other Ideas page a bit better...
I wrote both the original concept on Other Ideas and this suggestion. I could not find the old version to work from, but I recall it being more comprehensive. If anyone else can get it and post it here, I will be most grateful and will revise the submission. --Squashua 12:56, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

sorry squashua, i meen i really looked, but damn that old fire post must have been stuck in the oblivion folder. i remember it, from back then. i allways thought it needed refinement, but the basic idea (wheres the fire?) struck me as something that this game is sorely missing. thanks for pointing out the obvious.--Spellbinder 23:09, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

heh, how many times do you hear THAT coment without biteing scarsam attached to it?

Don't worry about it; it looks like Fire! is going to pass with flying colors anyway. :-) I'm just surprised that the original page editor didn't go back and take every idea on the archived page and re-submit them properly on the voting page, instead forcing everyone to re-submit like this. --Squashua 20:25, 10 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Mind Munch

Last Rites

THOR: THeres not enough zombie hunters to nerf it. Get a grip and try not voting kill on everything that isnt a zombie skill.

1 - Check the UD stats page and tell me again there aren't enough zombie hunters. 2 - Clearly you haven't read my votes at all. And FYI, I play both sides with different characters, so I'm not affected by hero mentality or zombie lust. I just try to vote for what's reasonable and against pointless stuff. --Seagull Flock 00:10, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I will pretend you werent to stupid to see that zombies still outnumber zombie hunters by almost 2:1 so stop crying like a schoolgirl with a skinned knee. Then again maybe you are that much of a moron that you didnt bother to read it and noone should be surprised then. Thor 21:22, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

*PLONK*. Not worth answering. --Seagull Flock 22:40, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

10 times more restraint then i ever show, seagull--Spellbinder 23:06, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I can't have the whole world to agree with me, I guess. :) --Seagull Flock 00:39, 10 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Arcibi: "Ankle Grab doesn't need to be nerfed", my ass. A horde of zombies with that skill basically has infinite HP, and therefore can do whatever they want. Maybe this shouldn't work 100% of the time, but something has got to be done.

Why? To unbalance the game once again? Kevan has implemented Ankle Grab because nobody wanted to play zombie anymore. 10 APs everytime to stand up, walk around (for 2 APs if you don't have Lurching Gait), get headshot, stand up, walk, get killed, repeat ad libitum. Z's still have to join a horde to have some chance. A lone zombie is still, literally, dead meat. A balanced game like now is something all benefit from, both humans and zeds. --Seagull Flock 00:10, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I agree, every player in the game has infinite HP, yes. if you have a problem with that, thats fine, however, it dosen't need to be changed. Ankle grab is just fine the way it is. Again, i repeat, any and all AP change shouldn't be implemented, in any way shape or form. Up, down, taken away from someone, given to your dog under the table, to high levels or low levels. --Spellbinder 01:15, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

You know, when put side by side, it makes me think that thor is double posting again. --Spellbinder 01:15, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

That's quite possible, the double posting. Still. Current estimates on humans holding territory against a horde are pretty high; in fact, from what I've read, holding territory is currently impractical if not impossible. Death is a minor inconvenience to zombies with ankle grab-- no, I'm wrong: it is a non-issue for a zombie with ankle grab unless he or she has been headshot. A zombie with maxed skills doesn't even care about a headshot. 1AP spent on standing up is nothing. Death has no consequence for zombies with ankle grab. A human, even with ankle grab, must wait for someone to spend the AP to get a revivification syringe and stand twice. I'm not saying we should nerf the skill, but I do think there needs to be some kind of counter on the human side. Shadowstar 01:25, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

you know, i've just GOT to debate with you here. Zombies are the prime movers when it comes to that horrable sicking fact that you can't stop them. The first zombie movies didn't even have ways to blow them away, i think evil dead is one of the first to suggest that if you shoot one in the head, it will stop. personaly, i LIKE the fact that if you get enough Z's in one location, nowhere is safe. its my oppinion that while humans should be able to do things like throw up protections to slow them down, ultmately there is nowhere safe and your only option is to run. or relocate, if you prefer.--Spellbinder 01:34, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

If that's so, and I can understand your point in that light, then... is the goal really balance? Or is it shifting it so that we eventually (perhaps slowly) follow the pattern of the zombie simulator (er, forgotten it's proper name). I'm fine with that too, but we've got to be clear on what we're going for, I think. --Shadowstar 01:46, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Maybe if the AP cost was reduced to only 5 making it harder but not too hard for ankle grab zombies. --Kryten 10:27, 9 Nov 2005 (GMT)