UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/Amazing vs Various

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Amazing vs GANKBUS, ASS, The Faggots and Associates

(title edited to be more condensed on Recent Edit and Chapterbox sections --Kb)

(Wasn't your place to edit it -- Amazing)

It is important to note that the groups I have listed are PKer/Griefer groups who have taken the in-game stuff to this Wiki. They're all pretty much the same group of players with different names. (Not Zerging, I'm speaking as to their similar operations.)

To quote The General:

You see, the problem is that there was an arbitration case bettween Amazing and GANKBUS, Amazing won and consequently all inflamatory info was removed from the GANKBUS page. What we are seeing now is them trying to get round that desicion by simply making tags and letting other users flame him. If Amazing brought another arbitration case against them he would win but there's a limited amount I can do unless an official complaint is logged.--The General W! Mod 16:57, 18 April 2006 (BST)

I figured the deck was so stacked against me (because I voice my opinion when it's not the popular one, and have suffered user and Mod scorn for it) that I could never get anything done through any of these Moderation pages.

That said, I was prodded to make this Arbitration Case by The General's statement above. If there's any actual chance of this being stopped - might as well give it a shot.

I am constantly harassed/defamed/flamed/trolled/insulted on this Wiki by GANKBUS members, ASS members, and the associated hangers-on such as Lucero Capell and Banana Bear4.

Below you will find evidence I will be adding to as time goes on.

I will be out for most of the day, but here's a chance to familairize yourself with some of this. If anyone friendly to my cause has something to add to the list of harassment, please do. Keep in mind this offer is not open to the people I am reporting or those who simply want to destroy said list.

  1. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Template:ASSaultOnAmazing
    • Amazing has created the same types of templates, check out the his user page Scinfaxi 17:57, 19 April 2006 (BST)
      • I have not CREATED the same types of templtes. - AND STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MY TEXT ABOVE MY SIGNATURE. Idiot! -- Amazing 02:50, 20 April 2006 (BST)
  2. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/User:Mpaturet (Check out the templates, of course)
    • See above.
  3. http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9300/amazingdress37hv.gif (Sexy, yes, but still harassment)
    • This is found on a user page (something Amazing conviently omits). It's parody from a user page, not a breach of copyright protections or harrassment. Scinfaxi 09:28, 19 April 2006 (BST)
      • This is also currently one of the funniest things involving Amazing -- Rueful 14:39, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  4. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Amazing&action=history (I used a template created by MODERATOR ZARUTHUSTRA saying I reserve the right to delete drama/flaming/whatever. Two users completely violate this and keep harassing on my own talk page.)
  5. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Amazing&curid=3079&diff=204996&oldid=204164 Rueful edits my user page just to bother me after this case is established. (the text he edited has been there for a good while before that.)
    • Zero cause for arbitration. Rueful edited to change "supports" to "support". Scinfaxi 09:42, 19 April 2006 (BST)
    • I fixed the improper grammar of one of your section headings, how is that harassment? Sadly, you reverted my fix, the English language is crying. -- Rueful 14:39, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  6. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3AAmazing&diff=179852&oldid=179836 (Edit to my userpage by Rasher, saying I'm a cheater - added in without the sig you'd expect if it was in good-faith.)
  7. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Talk:Moderation/Arbitration#Amazing_should_not_be_an_Arbitrator (First touted as an effort to remove me as an Arbitrator. When he was told that wouldn't happen, Rasher said it was just to get be to step down instead. No, it's just harassment for no real purpose. Arbitrators are chosen and I recieved no special abilities for this voluntary position.)
    • Perfectly legit cause to support. It was created in good faith. Scinfaxi 09:42, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  8. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Talk:Moderation/Promotions#No_Amazing_as_Mod_Petition (Petition to get me removed as a Moderator simply for the purpose of aggrivation. The Moderator who de-modded me later said he would Re-Mod me if he were able, as I did have support for my "action" which violated no rule.)
    • Once again, another cause created in goodfaith. People have to right to campaign AGAINST you holding a position on the wiki. Scinfaxi 09:42, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  9. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Moderation/Misconduct/Archive#Amazing (Misconduct report brought about when a user created a scenerio in which he was trying to facilitate my removal. As I said, I violated no rule - as stated by a Moderator - and the "ruling" in that case was overturned.)
  10. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Moderation/Arbitration/Archive#Amazing_vs_Rasher_.28again.29 (Self Explanatory. A Vandal impersonated me to vandalize my pages. They also reset my Wiki password multiple times. Note that Rasher admits to knowing this person - IF it wasn't him - so he was an accomplice in vandalism and resetting my password. I think it should be asked of him WHO this was so they can be perminently banned for resetting my Wiki password many times in a row.)
    • Knowing a violater does not make one complicit in any sort of violation. There is no way to prove any specific person did this. Scinfaxi 09:42, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  11. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Moderation/Arbitration/Archive#Amazing_vs_Rasher.2C_Scinfaxi.2C_and_GANKBUS (More record of vandalism and harassment aganst me.)
    • This dispute was already settled and ruled on. No need to use it to fluff out your dsipute. Scinfaxi 09:42, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  12. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Template:AmazingOhNoes (The troll-made Anti-Amazing garbage cluttering up this Wiki is truly astounding.)
    • Amazing himself has created images simular to these (ex, the Amazing fan club). Just check the top of his user page, it's a Grim free zone.Scinfaxi 09:42, 19 April 2006 (BST)
    Other small notes:
  13. Rasher promised to post pictures of me (IRL) that he found across the internet on other pages onto the GANKBUS page, stating right off that his intention was to cause grief through insult. This was fortunately stopped by a Moderator before it went too far.
    • You posted IP addresses and personal information as well. If you don't want your photograph on the internet, don't put it in a public place. If it was stopped by a moderator, why does it need to be discussed here? Scinfaxi 09:42, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  14. Rasher also communicated to me via AIM that all of this harassment would not stop unless 'gold' was put into 'the box'.
Gold in basket.jpg Gold in the Basket Supporter
This user or group believes that if Amazing does in fact put the gold in the basket that this situation can be resolved.
    • This is not an issue related to the wiki, hence it is not relevant. Scinfaxi 09:33, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  1. Scinfaxi states openly (coincidence?) that he can only be dissuaded with material goods. We'll never really know if there's any truth to that.
    • A flat out lie. The material goods is obviously a joke, but review the GANKBUS wiki paragraph that I wrote that statement in, you'll notice it reads "If it's old, leave it. If you don't like it, ask us to take it down. If we disagree, take it to arbitration. If you can't do that, then you better be ready to bribe Scinfaxi with some material goods cause' it isn't coming off the page any other way". Amazing has, in this instance, posted a completely false accusation (and also displayed his lack of a sense of humor). Scinfaxi 08:47, 19 April 2006 (BST)
  2. Rasher, Scinfaxi, and their little gang constantly post messages about me and my friends/fellow players calling us "villians" and "evil", "Zergers" and the like. It is a favorite of Rasher to say I have a "Bot" that somehow revives me whenever I die.
    • The same can be said of the CDF wiki, where allegations of zerging have been thrown around with little "evidence" and blanket statements are made about GANKBUS.
  3. I've attempted to make peace - or at least initiate a ceasefire - with Scinfaxi, Tehasskickars, and Rasher. In every case they completely refuse and make fun of me for attempting to stop the Wiki Wars. This shows that they are clearly in it for the yuks of doing harm. It has even been said BY them that they enjoy 'watching the fireworks' and the like. When I yell at them it does no good. When I try to make nice, I get trashed even worse.
    • Another obvious lie. There has been no serious attempt by Amazing to make peace. This issue is an in-game one, and has no relevance to arbitration. Scinfaxi 09:33, 19 April 2006 (BST)

As I say, feel free to add to the list, but I'll be back later tonight to do that. I expect no negative judgement (Hey, I'm honest) until I can finish the evidence list to the point where I feel it is complete.

Also, I will accept a ruling against SOME but not ALL of the people I am reporting, if necissary. I do not expect a dismissal of the entire case based on the fact that an arbitrator may find ONE person reported to be 'in the clear' - if that were to occur.

Users affected by this report:

Lucero Capell
Zaruthustra (General support of and playing along with the harassment in these actual cases - As a MODERATOR, I don't think he should be targetting specific users for ridicule.)

Others associated with GANKBUS, ASS, and the overall 'destroy Amazing's usage of this wiki and the game' effort that will be listed as they come to mind.

I've left a couple folks off who I have tried to make amends with that may not stick to it, but at least seem to be trying.

I request a definitive judgement across the board against these users that will, in effect, cause futher harassment to be considered possible vandalism, judged on a case-by-case basis via the vandalism page OR via a new special page if Moderators would like it to not be posted there. These people are a pack of rabid dogs who will not let go of me. There needs to be a definitive action that pulls them off. There needs to be some defense of my use of this Wiki, once and for all.

I also request Templates stop being used to harass and insult specific users. Not just me, but ANY user in the future.

I would also like to see an END to the BULLYING tactics. The Faggots, GANKBUS, and ASS members place the names of people who support me in ANY WAY on their "kill" lists, and then proceed to defame and insult THEM. This is a straight-up malicious tactic wherein they hope to force people to stop backing me up on anything through never-ending (literally) griefing in-game as well as constant annoyance and trolling and flaming on the Wiki. If you say "Amazing is kinda cool." you'll end up on their little lists and your enjoyment of this Wiki as a resource and of the game itself has a very high chance of dropping dramatically.

Did I cover all the bases for now? Hmm. -- Amazing 18:38, 18 April 2006 (BST)

It might be helpful if you list the other names, so they can be notified that they are being brought up for Arbitration. --Lucero Capell 18:53, 18 April 2006 (BST)
That's probably right, but, there again they don't actually need to comment until Amazing has finished adding to the list because I won't make the desicion until the lists finished.--The General W! Mod 18:58, 18 April 2006 (BST)
I think that a few quotes are in order here. Emphases added where appropriate.
Guidelines for Arbitration Requests: "In assisting in Arbitration, we generally suggest that both parties agree to the Arbitration. This is not, by any means, a requirement, but we do require that both parties be represented in procedings."
Clearly, none of the parties that Amazing takes issue with have been represented in the proceedings thus far, and The General, in fact, has made comments indicating that he is not interested in hearing opposing viewpoints.
The reason for the arbitration: "This should very specifically be without reference to people, as that information has already been provided. It should be a short paragraph indicating the causes of the aggrievement, and why both parties feel it requires arbitration"
Amazing's arbitration request references mainly people. Furthermore, it lacks any indication that any of the people Amazing has taken issue with feel that an arbitration request is needed.
The introduction to the arbitration page: "...the Arbitration Team may be called upon to intervene, and attempt to find a reasonable compromise that, while perhaps not satisfying both parties, may at least assist in defusing the situation, thanks to the unbiased third party."
Given the fact that Amazing himself cites The General as a factor in his filing this arbitration request, The General clearly is not an unbiased third party. Viewing The General's talk page provides even more evidence.
Current Arbitrators: "The role of Arbitrator is not restricted to the Moderation Team, any user can be contacted as an Arbitrator and use this page for the arbitration, so long as both parties agree to the Arbitrator."
ASS does not consent to The General being the arbitrator in this request.--Tehasskickars 20:33, 18 April 2006 (BST)
GANKBUS does not consent to The General being the arbitrator in this request as well. GANKBUS would like to point out that the alleged claims against GANKBUS have in act little to do with GANKBUS. Adding a template to our page doesn't constitute harrassment. Rasher 20:42, 18 April 2006 (BST)
I was expecting this, and if you want another arbitrator you may have one but first I would like to state a few facts: Firstly, I did not state that I was not interested in hearing the other side of the story and I do not know where you got that idea form. Secondly, what I was stating on the talk page was that from the perspective at the time Amazing would win but I could not do anything unless he first took up an arbitration case for harrasment. Anyway, if you want a different arbirtator you may have one but i'm not sure how many people would be prepared to arbitrate another Amazing conflict.--The General W! Mod 20:50, 18 April 2006 (BST)
Which would mean a win? A loss? An impass? Actually, I'm willing to arbitrate the proceedings, if both parties agree. --Karlsbad 21:25, 18 April 2006 (BST)
There is no precident of what to do if no one will take the case.--The General W! Mod 21:31, 18 April 2006 (BST)
Rasher's clearly bullshitting. GANKBUS and Rasher himself are simply tools of harassment targetted specifically at me. "Adding a temple" is not the extent of his/their misdeeds. -- Amazing 01:34, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Gankbus, ASS, and Lucero have already shown their inability to see their own harassment for what it is here and now. That said, I will add more URLs in a bit. If no Arbitrator can arbitrate this case, I will make a vandalism report against all involved for bad-faith edits followed by their willful thwarting of the Arbitration system. Just FYI. -- Amazing 01:31, 19 April 2006 (BST)

"Thwarting?" All they have to do to thwart the proceedings is willfully ignore this. Check the rules. MaulMachine 01:33, 19 April 2006 (BST)

This is not your concern. Back out slowly. -- Amazing 02:01, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Good call Maul. I can't believe you haven't hopped on the bus sooner. Scinfaxi 08:59, 19 April 2006 (BST)

For What its worth, here comes Banana 2 the Bear into this fiery mess. I don't think I did anything warranting arbitration, nor the others, but I'll stick to myself now. I edited a talk page. I stopped editing that page later that night in accordance with some fine advice from a little bird named Mia. What did I do with those edits? I paraphrased something Scinfaxi had said, and conteste the idea that I did not understand page ownership, I also think I said I was laughing. I did not contest the claim that a Banana Bear is fully capable of farting colors, I let that one slide. Thats it. Was it the best thing I've done for the wiki? Not at all. Does it need arbitration or a trip to vandal banning? Not in the least. In the words of the immortal Sweet King " Chill Homies" -Banana Bear4 02:27, 19 April 2006 (BST)

To quote Banana Bear himself from his Talk page: "Amazing is hilarious and as such, never have I wasted a moment playing games with him." - Doesn't sound like something one would say if Bear's previous statement of very limited, harmless interaction with me were true. The quote above is the textbook statement of a pure troll. -- Amazing 02:35, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Let us address this bit. First, yes, I do find you hilarious, and often you make me laugh, did you see my haiku I wrote you? Hilarious! Secondly, was my interaction with you limited and hilarious? Yes, I edited your talk pages a few times one night, have I done that before? No sir. Were my edits admirable? No sir. Do I think your funny when your mad? Yes sir. Am I afraid of Billy goats knocking me off the bridge? No sir. As before, "Chill Homies" -Banana Bear4 06:02, 19 April 2006 (BST)
So you're saying that our negative interation is wholly restricted to those recent edits? Think about your answer, though. (as in, if you don't recall all the times you've chimed in and all that, please take a moment to see if it comes to you.) -- Amazing 06:11, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Ah, like when I told you hypocrisy was not spelled with an "AC" and probably some other times I thought you were being especially serious. Yes, I have interacted with you before. I probably will again. Am I going to get into another serious snit on your talk page verging on edit war? Nope. If you want, you can say me voicing my opinion places is trolling, and sick some gruff billy goats on me. "Chill Homies" -Banana Bear4 06:29, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Thanks (for reals) for at least not making me dig up links. Others continue to deny certain things even when the links are present, so that's a big 'thanks' from me, whatever the add-on notations. That said, voicing an opinion does not always equal trolling. Trolling, however, almost always masquerades as "voicing an opinion". I'm not saying anything more than my PoV on trolling there. -- Amazing 06:47, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Let's go over the "evidence". A template for use of a legitimate campaign by an in-game group. A User Page. An off-site image. Some talk page. A talk page edit. A legitimate petition to remove you from Arbitratorship. A legitimate petition to remove you from Moderatorship (signed by Kevan, I may say). A Misconduct case endorsed by Kevan. A couple of Arbitration rulings. So... you have a legitimate to maybe four of these reasons (talk page "harassment" and the Arbitration rulings (to which you have not provided evidence as to how they were violated, I might add)? And of these reasons, which involves me? This is a convoluted case as it is, try clarifying it some for us. --Lucero Capell 03:01, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Read the case again and it'll come to you, I'm sure. That's assuming you're not simply pretending you missed the text that answers your question. -- Amazing 03:10, 19 April 2006 (BST)
You are the one bringing this case. You need to be the one to make it coherent, it's not up to the defendant (for lack of a better word) to bring the burden of proof. I've read this, and i'm also not really sure what Amazing wants. I understand his stance on the template, but other then those what is he seeking to be arbitrated against? What do the links to the quote unquote harassment attempt to prove, and what actions should be taken if these do constitute harassment/defamation/ect/ect. If you want your case to be taken seriously, flesh this out some--Bermudez 03:35, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I'm considered evidence! Woohoo! Seriously though this whole case is silly.--Mpaturet 04:28, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Actually, you can only say that since you're on the antagonistic side of it. If you felt harassed, you'd probably go futher than I have, either through the proper channels or what have you. I could do much worse, believe me. :) -- Amazing 05:54, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I'm sorry, I only speak with other sexy bitch pieces of evidence. Please call again once someone starts attempting to restrict what you can put on your personal page--Mpaturet 07:57, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Note to The General: I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this. Just because you've been knocked-off as Abritrator doesn't mean you can't speak your mind - in fact it actually frees you up more.

Even though you are allied with GANKBUS and the very people who don't want you to arbitrate, I would have thought you'd be reasonable and unbiased here. (And not just because you suggested bringing the case. Haw!) After all, I did back you as a Mod even though I don't like your in-game behavior (for gameplay reasons) and the fact that you're actually helping the people who are griefing and harassing me.

So what say you, if you so choose? -- Amazing 04:21, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Some might consider the statement that we are "a pack of rabid dogs" to be inflammatory and defamatory. Please alter your statement.--Tehasskickars 04:27, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Thanks for proving my point. -- Amazing 04:49, 19 April 2006 (BST)

May i arbitrate this ? I already ruled the previous Amazing vs. Gankbus case and am somehow familiar with this new case. It will require some reading, but i believe i can come to a sense after some reading and questions on both sides. --hagnat tw 04:40, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Well, you are one of the folks I'm talking about in the case. (A creator of a template with the purpose of defaming me across Wiki pages where I cannot defend myself BECAUSE of the template itself) I'm contemplating someone ruling on an arbitration case that includes them... I'm not saying "no" yet, but can you give me some insight into how that would work? -- Amazing 04:49, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Ow, i didnt found my name on the above list, so i was thinking you was OK with me by now. You see, i created a template upon user request. Someone asked me to do it on the IRC cuz i got the l33t haxx0rz skillz with the template thing, so... i used it for a few hours, but when zar made the lammadrama template i switched in a second.
Anyway... we may have had our little differences in the past, amazing, but i believe i can make some *really neutral* decision here. --hagnat tw 04:55, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Yeah, I only listed the ones I deem the 'worst' offenders. I wanted to leave out the actual names of folks I felt were merely following the popular trend and may not have actually known what exactly they were facilitating. There's a sort of umbrella "people who are being nerdwads" feel to the overall complaint, so I didn't feel it necissary to 'go after' anyone who isn't a particularly bad annoyance. That said, I have no problem with you as an arbitrator.
I can no more say you'd be a bad arbitrator for this case than I can predict the weather. The slight area of personal involvement made me question it, but in light of your responce, I'd say go ahead.
Of course, that's just me. Dunno if the GANK/ASS/FAGGOTS are going to pull the "We agree to none of the arbitrators" thing if they don't like the outcome. -- Amazing 05:02, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I would like to know what specifically you are accusing me of. I haven't accused you of anything and would be happy if you left me alone on the wiki. The sole purpose of The Faggots is to provide strength in numbers aginst people who want to wage pointless vendettas on us in game. In my opinion, you started this with Scinfaxi, and then got your fellow CDFers to do you dirty work. I wasn't going to allow him to be targeted by an entire group for what have should have been a personal beef between that two of you. I have said nothing that should result in arbitration, and I consider this baseless harassment from someone out to get me because of the company I keep. You want to be my enemy in game, fine, but I'm not about to get in a fued over a wiki board. If you want to get along in game, the ball's in your court. Simply get your CDFers to call off their hunting of The Faggots and we'll be fine. oh and an apology wouldn't hurt.Jjames 07:22, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I have already spoken with some of them in the past, i believe they wont have anything against me as arbitrator here. Then, i will work on something by tomorrow. My bed is looking really comnfy now :) --hagnat tw 05:11, 19 April 2006 (BST)

How much of the moderations teams time has been wasted by pointless Amazing related bullshit? A lot. I'm sorry for messing with Burgundy, that was totally me being stupid (at least related to wiki vandalism). However, look at the climate Amazing has created for himself both in-game and on the wiki. He's rude, makes vague accusations, complains all the time, and a ton of other things. If there were a rule for banning posters that are consistently offensive, Amazing would be the first one to go. There are plenty of groups that have occasional disputes which are resolved much sooner and occur less frequently than Amazing. I would like to have my accusations SPECIFICALLY listed seperately, because it seems like Amazing is creating an "everybody that hates and harrasses me" list. I don't see how I've violated the moderation agreements I've had with Amazing. We've both removed things from each others wiki's, I haven't reposted material he finds offensive (or at least moved it to a discussion). So anyways, I feel like Amazings constant complaining and arbitration is a form of harrassment. I've settled disputes in the past over the wiki (specifically with Ron Burgundy), and it's never ended up as stupid as this. Basically, I hope you'll review exactly why Amazing is involved in so many disputes with so many different people. Thanks. Scinfaxi 07:39, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I'm not agreeing to arbitration here. I speak for myself, so I want accusations against me listed so I can consider arbitration. Hagnat is a good candidate to review this, but I have no agreed to anything yet. Scinfaxi 08:39, 19 April 2006 (BST)

The level of fallacy and logical inconsistencies in your "arguments" is absolutely hilarious. For example, you claim that I admit to knowing the person that reset your password - I admitting to knowing at least 10 people at my school that play urban dead, but I never claimed to know who the person was. Any point raised against yours are combatted by ad hominem attacks rather than legitimate logical arguments. 'AD HOMINEM ATTACKS ARE FALLACIOUS AND YOU ARE MAKING PEOPLE LAUGH AT YOU ON THE INTERNET' You bring absolutely every bit of this on yourself...your arbitration request is going to do nothing but inspire GANKBUS, et al copycats. Rasher 07:27, 19 April 2006 (BST)

ASS joins GANKBUS, Rasher, and the Internet in laughing.--Tehasskickars 07:40, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Given the all-encompassing nature of Amazing's complaint, and that the arbitration guidelines specifically require that "any user can be contacted as an Arbitrator and use this page for the arbitration, so long as both parties agree to the Arbitrator" (emphasis added), ASS formally requests that unless all accused users and groups, as well as Amazing, are able to formally come to an agreement as to what arbitrator should oversee the case, this arbitration request be summarily dismissed by the moderators or voluntarily removed by Amazing.--Tehasskickars 07:48, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Seconded, this has gotten overlong and the issues here are hazy at best. -Banana Bear4 07:55, 19 April 2006 (BST)

To further clarify, ASS also requests that the specific disputes requiring arbitration between Amazing and ASS be listed separately and completely clarified.--Tehasskickars 07:51, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Your request is noted, However, The rules and precedents of the arbritration page don't allow for your request to be honerated. The established rules and practises on the arbritraton page are that agreement about abritrators is through non-opposing, That while you can oppose certain arbritrators for bias or the appearance of bias, negociation on which particular user you all want while certainly helpful at times is not a given right. The scope of the arbritration is made by the complainant, but any arbritrator will weight each user, group and complaint against them individually. Fact and opinion will be weighted towards relative weight in the case and individual outcomes are certainly one of the possibilaties. Moderators have frequently stated that they will not get involved in arbritrations cases in any other capacity of that of a reguelar user, their powers to trow out this case are the same as any other regular user/arbritrator, Does anybody have a substanciated problem with Hagnat as an arbritrator? --Vista W! 08:24, 19 April 2006 (BST)

ASS has never proposed bartering for an arbitrator. What we suggest is that the specific rules, as laid out on this page, are followed, and that all users be required to agree upon an arbitrator, by vetoing, or not. That said, ASS has not accepted any arbitrator at this point. We will provide notification of our consent if and when we do.
again I repeat, your consent is not asked, nor is your notification needed to proceed further, precent of this page is that you must voice your opposition to a moderator, and as you haven't opposed Hagnat, he is therefore your arbritrator. and I direct you to the part that says After the Arbitration is over, it will then be moved to Archive. As a publically accessible Archive, it may be used to establish precedent in further, applicable cases The multi interpretable rule of how an arbritrator is assigned to a case is one of those thing in wich we look back at precedent to decide how the rule should explaned. So we follow exactly the specific rules as laid out on this page, as they are are set up by the wiki users. As it stands now Hagnat may proceed with the arbritration on this part.
Secondly, our second request has been plainly ignored. We cite the relevant arbitration section in full:
"The reason for the arbitration. This should very specifically be without reference to people, as that information has already been provided. It should be a short paragraph indicating the causes of the aggrievement, and why both parties feel it requires arbitration"
If Amazing is unable to meet this requirement of the arbitration guidelines by stating his dispute with us separately, clearly, and in full, then we will consider his arbitration request against us to be dissolved.--Tehasskickars 17:06, 19 April 2006 (BST)
The reason given why you are here and why arbitration is needed according to Amazing is: I am constantly harassed/defamed/flamed/trolled/insulted on this Wiki by GANKBUS members, ASS members[...] the infraction include is his first link, while you certianly are right if you call it less consise then would be advisable, the requirement is thus met. as all requirements are met, Hagnat is now the person who can desolve your part in this arbitration case, so I advice you not to consider this closed and ignore it, but to proceed with it to the full extend.--Vista W! 20:53, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I'd also like to add the General cannot be considered an unbiased third party, especially for me. "I don't agree with what their doing either but there's a limited amount I can do about it. I'll see what I can do about it. Any evidence would be welcomed, the more evidence I have the stronger the case is" This statement pretty much proves he's made up his mind on the issue. I encourage any user involved to review his statements. Scinfaxi 08:37, 19 April 2006 (BST)

That is why I am not the arbitrator for this case, even though I will probably end up being the one who enforces the desicion anyway.--The General W! Mod 08:43, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I love the little comments added by Scinfaxi after some of the points outlined by Amazing. Not only is his "defence" incredibly weak, there are numerous points (enough by themselves for a a case) left uncommented on. Interesting and not a little humourous. --Cyberbob240CDF 11:43, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I left four unrefuted points, mainly because the issue was already addressed somewhere on the list OR the comments had been removed and were not repeatedly added. Of course, I like how there's no honest defense of the points where Amazing basically 100% lied. What point are my defenses specifically weak on, Amazing crying about AIM which has nothing to do with the wiki? Scinfaxi 17:55, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Not all of them involve Scinfaxi. Carry one. Rasher 14:36, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Also, I never threatened to post pictures of anyone except edited pictures of your "copyright" that fall under fair use. Rasher 17:12, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I created the No Amazing As Mod petition because I believed that Amazing was a terrible choice. It wasnt created to grief him. --Technerd 17:38, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I'm sure the General thinks that's wrong too. It is, however, perfectly acceptable to petition for someone to be removed from or not recieve a position on the wiki. Scinfaxi 17:55, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I would like to ask ASS why they believe that if they refuse to agree to any of the arbitrators the case should be dissmised? Why if they can't agree to any of the arbitrators should they automaticaly win?--The General W! Mod 17:47, 19 April 2006 (BST)

If this can't be solved through arbitration, shouldn't it be fair teritory for a mod to step in and lay down the law? BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 20:29, 19 April 2006 (BST)

It should be but I have a feeling that they would still protest.--The General W! Mod 20:41, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Well, yeah... But they protest now anyway. It could result in less drama around here *shrug* BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 20:44, 19 April 2006 (BST)

hagnat's point of view

People already have made a No-Amazing template. This is, indeed, an attack against Amazing. ASS should be punished for this.
This is an user page, he is on his rights to say anything he wishes to say about you or anyone else on this wiki. Amazing itself has very offensive comments about other users, and annoying material against STER on his user page (Ster made a mistake in the past, amazing, cant you forgive it ?). Therefore, Mpaturet shouldnt be punished for any crimes in this case.
Amazing... you clearly asked for this in your trial for misconduct, when you said the guy who made the noamazing.jpg couldnt drawn 'you' in a dress. It is a hosted somewhere else, so we cant do a thing about it here in the wiki.
The drama llama says you will remove any content you deem to be trolling or drama from your talk page. It doesnt say people would be forbidden to post trolling and drama in there. Do not complain about a template reserve breach, complain that they harrased you and end of story. And please, do not add a summary note with lies... Removing Scinfaxi's detail account of incest with his mother. is not a good summary for just a section wipe. Scinfaxi didnt said a thing about your mother in that wipe. He said a thing about your mother on the previous wipe, but he was not saying a thing about incest. He was implying that you live on your mother's house basement and that you should ask her what to post on the interweb.
*sigh* No one expects the grammar inquisition ?! Please, give something really offensive as evidence.
You have already filled an arbitration case against rasher, TWICE, long after this edit. So, this is really old 'evidence' and, therefore, shouldnt be considered again.
People have the right to organize themselves and complain about what they feel it is not right. Rasher believed you shouldnt be a arbitrator, so he asked people to vote for or against your position. It was up to you to listen or not to the voting mob. He could start a petition to take my mod away if he wanted, its on his rights.
Your moderation thing was not created by any of the users involved in Gankbus, ASS or Faggots, and even i supported it. It was something wrong, and that petition was made to fix things right.
This case is still a complicated one, and should not be taken as eviddence. Fair use or not, copyrighted image or not, you should have had used the proper ways to remove an image (and/or page).
Even if rasher told us wich user did that to you, Amazing, what would have been the point ? That same user would have still keep reseting your password. Angry, now that you were the cause of his bannage from the wiki.
Like scinfaxi said, this case is already settled. No point taking it as evidence.
He. He he. I didnt had the time to see this. :) Anyway, this template has anything wrong with it, since... you know... you move so many arbitatrion cases around here that a template like this was clearly in need :). Smile man, this is a funny template.
  • Rasher posting your pics on the Gankbus page
If he ever do this, in an offensive way, he will be punished and all images removed.
  • Gold put on the box
This has no relations with this wiki, therefore nothing can be done. Logs can be faked, so they would prove nothing.
  • Scinfaxy's Material goods
I said that i could help you, if you helped me on my promotion candidacy. Does that count as bribe ? Even if you realized it was a joke ? People make jokes all the time, you should try to not take them seriously. I am going to ban you, BTW. That will teach you not to oppose me. MU HU HA HA
  • User talks pages and Zergers accusations.
I strongly suggest you to make a list of who cant send you messages. Place it on top of your talk page, like a disclaimer thing. Say that people who dont follow this list will be charged as vandals. The mod team would them be able to punish these people.
Zerging accusations are as hard to handle as PK'ing reports and Zombie Spys reports. Unless there is actual proof that one side has made use of zerging tactics, no one should say that Harman12 is a zerg alt from Zadar25.
  • truce
the following comments will talk about this...

--hagnat tmod 19:48, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I want Rasher, Scinfaxi, and anyone involved in this whole drama... to politely answer me this: Why do you guys keep attacking Amazing ? I have had my past differences with him, but i believe that we are ok by now. Why do you keep, in a very childlish manner, attack Amazing and anyone related to him ? If you have proven your point that they cant hold that building, why do you guys keep attacking the crossman guys ?
You seem like kids who like to annoy those whom you are not found of! Grow up! Act in a mature way! This whole wiki has hundreads, thousands! of comments about Amazing! Do you know that saying 'talk good, talk bad, bu talk about me' (i dont know if this saying is popular outside brazil), but your constant attacks against Amazing just made him even more popular on the wiki! There is not a single day that amazing is not a subject in the irc channels i went to! All because you kept him on the hot spots!
Amazing, you too! I suggested you to leave things as they were in the past. To stop editing the GANKBUS page. But did you listen to me ? I had to arbitrate this sam way for you to stop it! If you had stoped in your own free will on the past perhaps nothing of this was necessary.
Now both of your sides are 'popular' in this wiki, and everybody talks about you guys. Are you happy now ? If i could, i would ban you all! Just so this wiki get finally some peace and quiet for what it was supposed to be: a place where we could talk about the UD game and have fun. This has nothing to do with the game. And, absolutely, not fun! --hagnat tmod 20:03, 19 April 2006 (BST)

--hagnat tmod 20:03, 19 April 2006 (BST)

It's a simple answer we attack Amazing because he basically deserves it and makes himself an easy target, we're just providing a community service. Do you think Amazing does not respond to us in a childish manner (like the one we're currently involved in)? We find Amazing HILARIOUS, and probably will continue to oppose him. We're not acting like kids, it is a game, and we take it a lot less seriously than Amazing. Amazing could easily diffuse the situation by not acting like such an asshole ALL THE TIME. Seriously, do you think we all got together and decided we hated Amazing? I don't know any GANKBUS member personally, and I only know one Faggot. Amazing somehow managed to piss all of us off, how do you think that happened? I think we add A LOT of flavor to the wiki. I mean tell me it isn't laughable to scroll through Amazing dispute after Amazing dispute? Amazing certainly is popular, but not in the good way. More like a sort of infamous way. We're not whining like Amazing, we're voicing our problems with him WHILE BEING ENTERTAINING. If Amazing actually had a sense of humor, we wouldn't be in this situation right now. Scinfaxi 22:39, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Does this prove that i am completly neutral in this case ? that i favour no one, and that i could arbitrate this now ?

You stated that ASS should be punished. What should their punishment be?--The General W! Mod 20:09, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I have nothing in mind right now. Surely, the template will be deleted. We could, perhaps, work on some disciplinary actions on some ASS members. --hagnat tmod 20:25, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Quote: "People already have made a No-Amazing template. This is, indeed, an attack against Amazing." How? It's purely a reference to a purely in-game thing. Punishing us for this would be like punishing the RRF for talking about how they're targeting Donnie Osmond. And The General, you need to slow down some. I really don't think you should be getting into disciplinary action before we've even had a chance to state our case in this. --Tehasskickars 21:06, 19 April 2006 (BST)
State your point then. Everything said until now is still in some kind of Gray Area. Nothing was decided, so you still have your chance to defend yourselves. Create a ASS point of view section and state your cause there. --hagnat tmod 21:26, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Yeah, we'll need to identify which members should have disciplinary action taken against them and to work out what would be appropriate actions, banning would be too harsh so it'll need to be some sort of verbal limitation on what they can do towards Amazing. I'll go and delete the templete now.--The General W! Mod 20:34, 19 April 2006 (BST)
First of all. NO ONE WILL GET BANNED. It wouldnt solve a thing, since anyone can easily create another account to annoy the other side. Second. Hold on general. Like i said to Tehass, things are still in the gray... wait for us to get to final resolutions before deleting things. --hagnat tmod 21:26, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I have to disagree. I have not been bothering Amazing. He posted on my page, I didn't post on his. I feel like The Faggots and I have been brought into moderstion for no reason, without even being informed. I don't think I should be subject to harassment because Amazing hates Scinfaxi. I want a specific list of the reasons The Faggots and I am being accused or I want our names immediatly dropped from this complaint.Jjames 20:16, 19 April 2006 (BST)

What exactly are you disagreeing with? As far as I can see, no action has been taken against either you or The Faggots.--The General W! Mod 20:20, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Exactly. I never said a thing about the Faggots or you. Amazing clearly never filled any 'evidence' against you or your group. He might want to add something on this later.
For one, I don't like the personal comments made about me by grouping me in with people fueding with Amazing. I don't feel it's right that Amazing can put me and my group in arbitration without any specific compalints against me. It's a wate of my time. If I am not being ruled against, I want to see it in writing that I am in the clear. That way Amazing can't bring me in again in a week for the same reasons.Jjames 20:32, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Ok, you are not going to be ruled against on this current evidence. If Amazing brings any evidence against you then that will, of course, be considered. But for the moment you are in the clear. You will be informed if any more evidence is brought against you.--The General W! Mod 20:39, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Am I no longer needed for this either? -Banana Bear4 20:29, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Depending on what Hagnat says, you are no longer needed for this either.--The General W! Mod 20:39, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I was reading Amazing's talk page, looking through the History. Now, let us make this clear. The drama llama thing states that the user will delete trolling from its own talk page, but it doesnt give him the rights to flame those whom messages were deleted. Amazing was an ass by removing all your edits on his talk page, and placing annoying comments about how you would end up in the vandal report page and how you and scinfaxi were dating (or something on these lines). These clearly annoys anyone, and any one in your situation would end up adding further edits to his page. Now, amazing can be blamed here, but you are not 'clean' on this. Soon as amazing first removed your messages your should have realized your messages werent welcome, even those who were only mild funny (nothing related to amazing). For that, i think you must get a first warning, as to not mess in talk pages from user you are clearly not welcome. This goes to all others who posted on amazing talk page after he removed and/or edited their lines. --hagnat tmod 20:48, 19 April 2006 (BST)
Ok, I might be inclined to argue over whether or not there's cause for warnings, but I don't really care, and you've got enought of a mess already. Good luck with this one you lot, don't lose your heads. -Banana Bear4 21:11, 19 April 2006 (BST)
First of all, I have never threatened to post real life pictures of Amazing and I have no idea where he came up with that. The only real life picture of him exists on the wiki and on his own, public forum. Second, "punishing" ASS would be ridiculous. If you can punish them for making a template that attacks someone, go through and count up the verbal assaults Amazing has made against people, which are generally a lot more offensive than the level of "harassment" directed towards him. For example, he called me a [fat fuck ] on Lucero Capell's talk page. Finally, we have said before that we will stop attacking CDF when Amazing steps down as leader and leaves CDF. GANKBUS, ASS, and our other allies are dedicated from removing him from his despotic reign of the region. We will continue to execute CDF loyalists until the regime is changed. Rasher 21:33, 19 April 2006 (BST)
You absolutely did threaten to post pics, you liar. You know your ass is covered by the recent Log clearing. The Mod who told you that should step forward to prove you wrong. I called you FAT because Scinfaxi called ME fat. :) See? I totally turned his baloney on you to see if you'd UNDERSTAND the inanity of it. You didn't. Also, you've said much worse about me over a much longer period of time so... you know... shut up. :) -- Amazing 03:05, 20 April 2006 (BST)
Nice use of Inanity. Where and in what context did I threaten to post pictures of you? I DONT HAVE PICTURES OF YOU THAT ARENT ALREADY ON THE WIKI. I have absolutely never verbally assaulted you in any way to the level of "fat fuck" which is clearly offensive and verbal harassment. GANKBUS keeps its criticisms high brow, just read our new haiku section for examples. And, he mod who told me what? Trying to prove a little conspiracy theory to distract us from the point that none of your claims have any merit is close to ad hominem. If youll look that up, youll see what I mean. Try debating the actual issues and stay away from personal attacks, and maybe people will take you seriously. Until then, you look like an ignorant jackass trying to stir up drama on the wiki and waste everyone's time. Is that a personal attack? If so, you can ban me for it. Rasher 18:23, 20 April 2006 (BST)

My link to Mpaturet's page was to show the templtes, as I said in my report. "Look at the temples" etc. I also NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE DRAMA LLAMA. Wtf, man? This is all pretty sad since a lot of it was "That's too old so they get away with it" and the like. Gee, seems people want LESS reports from me, not MORE to ensure it doesn't become "Old" so I can't cite it.

Just some points there, but really the only thing that matters is I never said Mpaturet couldn't have his User Page ownership, I specifically spoke of the templates used for harassment - And I never spoke of the Drama Llama template itself. -- Amazing 02:56, 20 April 2006 (BST)

I used a template created by MODERATOR ZARUTHUSTRA saying I reserve the right to delete drama/flaming/whatever. Two users completely violate this and keep harassing on my own talk page.) Excuse me ? Who didnt said a thing about the drama llama ? Look at the templates is pretty vague. The 'old' things are things you should have used as 'evidence' when you last filed a case of abitration against rasher -TWICE- after this edit in question. --hagnat tmod 03:06, 20 April 2006 (BST)
It originally read to me as if you were saying one of my complaints was the Drama Llama template. So I said I didn't say anything about that - meaning in my complaint, I didn't complain about the template. Looking it over again I dunno why I thought that. As for the Gold in the Box - certainly relates NOW, doesn't it? ;) -- Amazing 06:04, 21 April 2006 (BST)

ASS response

Does no one follow due process in this wiki? The arbitration page clearly states that "Once the Arbitration commences, the Arbitrator will request statements from all parties involved. Any evidence to back up one's statement should be provided in link form. Each party will then have an opportunity to rebut their opponent's statement. After these two steps, the Arbitrator will then consider the case, and reach a conclusion, and determine the outcome that is required."

ASS has not consented to Hagnat's arbitration. Hagnat has not requested statements from ASS. ASS has not had an opportunity to rebut Amazing's claims. And The General was formally rejected by both ASS and GANKBUS.

However, since the rules are apparently meaningless here, ASS responds to Amazing's claims thusly:

  1. The ASSaultOnAmazing is not insulting to Amazing in any way. The full text of the box reads "This user or group supports ASS and their ASSault on Amazing." I challenge anyone to explain how demonstrating support for ASS is insulting to Amazing.
  2. The AmazingOhNoes template is even more obviously tame. It is nothing but an informative template that Amazing has an arbitration request with the user or group in question. Once again, I challenge anyone to show how this is insulting.
  3. "I've attempted to make peace - or at least initiate a ceasefire - with ... Tehasskickars." The extent of Amazing's attempt to "make pease" with us (Tehasskickars, by the way, is a joint account used to manage the ASS wiki page) can be seen at our talk page. In case Amazing removes his comments from that page after we post the link, we quote him in full:
"What if you stop PKing a group/person if they give you another group/person that warrents griefing and they're "Approved"?
Sort of like "The Ring" with the video tape passing. No, I'm not a fan of "The Ring" before you start in with "Bcuz u liek shitay moveys i wil kil ur dog lolol"
Basically, I'd just like to pawn you off on someone else at this point. (More because I dislike them as opposed to giving a turd about you)"

His words speak for themselves. Furthermore, the guidelines for a cease fire has always been, and still is, outlined on the ASS page. The problems Amazing has with ASS are in-game ones, and this arbitration page has no relevance to that.--Tehasskickars 21:36, 19 April 2006 (BST)

well, i did ask for those involved on this drama for what their motives were. Your group was 'in between the lines' there :) And, as far as i can see from your (as of now) page, your group has a good point. A better point than the one from the new ganubus group. As far as thing are, i am not arbitrating a thing. It might seem that way (blame my sometimes poor english skillz) but i am only arbitrating those who accept it, like Banana Bear and Lucero did (i will arbitrate amazing vs. him soon). --hagnat tmod 21:57, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I should point out that the 'guidelines' are actually hostage-type situation demands that include me standing on one tile ingame and letting them kill me over and over for as long as they want. This wiki has become simply a tool of extortion for the pleasure of griefers. -- Amazing 05:55, 22 April 2006 (BST)


Woah, this thing has grown. Well, since Amazing has refused to show how exactly I fit into the scheme of the whole deal, may I ask if I may be dismissed from this ruling? (by the way, I accept hagnat as Arbitrator) --Lucero Capell 21:37, 19 April 2006 (BST)

In order to ease things out, i propose that we break this joint arbitration of Amazing vs. A bunch of people into smaller ones. Amazing will fill the evidence later, and people will have an organized place to defend themselves. --hagnat tmod 22:03, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Perhaps you can put in what's said already as well, it's really disorganised.--Vista W! 22:19, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Available Arbiters

At the moment, it is advisable that both parties present to simply list 5 Arbitrators each, that would be agreeable to them personally and see if any overlap. If not, repeat it again with different choices. If there are, contact those arbitrators listed on both lists and see who wants the case.

If you are an arbitrator and wish to arbitrate any of the pending cases, sign below.

Amazing's list of possible arbitrators.

Amazing listed those Arbitrators he found that would be unbiased against him or that couldnt be trusted as objetives. The following lists show who amazing would accept -and who he wont- to rule any of the wikigate cases.
Arbitrators Amazing will accept
  1. ALIENwolve
  2. Axe-man
  3. Brizth
  4. Conndraka
  5. Cyberbob240
  6. Duce Nauks
  7. John Rove
  8. LibrarianBrent
  9. Nubis
  10. ramby
  11. RCG Tiburon
  12. The General
  13. Tycho44
  14. Vista
Arbitrators Amazing won't accept
  1. CthulhuFhtagn - Not trusted to be objective.
  2. hagnat - Not trusted to be objective.
  3. Jjames - Involved in the greater case, not trusted.
  4. Karlsbad - Nothing personal.
  5. Lucero Capell - Involved in the greater case, nothing personal.
  6. MaulMachine - Not trusted to be objective.
  7. Mia K - Not trusted to be objective.
  8. Mpaturet - In no way fit to arbitrate anything.
  9. Odd Starter - Not trusted to be objective.
  10. TheTeeHeeMonster - Nothing personal.
  11. Zaruthustra - Involved in the greater case, not trusted.
  12. 'STER - Nothing personal.

Final Rulings

Amazing vs. GANKBUS

Amazing vs. Rasher

  • Rulling: Rasher and Amazing are to stay away from each other. 21:10, 16 May 2006 (BST)
  • Arbiters: hagnat

Amazing vs. Rueful

Amazing vs. ASS

  • Ruling: solved
  • Arbiters: Brizth

Amazing vs. Banana Bear4

  • Ruling: closed
  • Arbiters: N/A

Amazing vs. Mpaturet

  • Ruling: Dropped (Misunderstanding)
  • Arbiters: ???

Amazing vs. Scinfaxi

  • Ruling: Arbitration refused by Scinfaxi.
  • Arbiters: Arbitration refused by Scinfaxi.

Amazing vs. The Faggots

  • Ruling: The Faggots cleared until further evidence is posted.
  • Arbiters: The General

Amazing vs. Lucero Capell

  • Ruling: Amazing and Lucero Capell have agreed to a contract that limits their actions towards each other for a period.
  • Arbiters: Vista

Amazing vs. Zaruthustra

  • Ruling: Amazing and Zaruthustra are to stay away from one another.
  • Arbiters: LibrarianBrent
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