UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/Elias Taylor vs Crabappleslegalteam

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Elias Taylor Vs. Crabappleslegalteam

This has gotten out of hand. Each party is constantly reomving the other's edits and replacing it with their own. Hyprocrisy is kind where those two meet, and seriously it's about time something was done to end this shit. Affected pages, among others, are:

Other parties are involved, and this has an in-game source, but those are the important parties, and the problem is on the wiki. Therefore, I suggest that both parties agree to arbitration by an arbitrator of their choice. Arbitrator or not, both parties are strongly suggested to attempt to solve this problem here and now.

We enthusiastically accept arbitration. We didn't start this, and we want an end to it, as we've said on many pages. We don't want Certified=Insane as an arbitrator, however. Possibly Conndraka? Any volunteers? Sorry if we're slow about this!
In the meantime, please feel free to delete the relevant pages whilst arbitration is in process. At least it would provide temporary relief. We feel quite seedy about our last entry, to be honest, but generally think it was par for the course following the entries by Elias over the weekend. For the moment, we'll just say that we don't want this kind of history rewrite cluttering up the game, and only ever started it after Elias kept repetitively deleting our disclaimer regarding his first entry
On a general basis, it is this practice of establishing pages which appear to be general factual news pages referring to the Crabapples and associates but are actually created by the MAF and/or IUSS to slander them which we are objecting to.
We don't mind who deletes them, so long as they are deleted. This includes all the pages mentioned, including those modified by ourselves, if everybody is agreeable to everything. The messages on the West Boundwood pages we're not sure whether should be deleted or not, or modified, or what.--Crabappleslegalteam 11:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
I would be willing to arbitrate.--Gage 16:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

OK by us, we think. You look like a specialist.... please be gentle! Anyway, not to keep adding things before Elias says anything, but we don't want this sort of 'official looking history but actually slander' page being added in the future either. We don't think the Crabapples have done it (although the locations edits we did are pretty much this sort of thing, during this exchange), so we don't think it should be done to them either.--Crabappleslegalteam 17:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

While we're waiting, could you tell us what happens if Elias never actually responds? Also, we see that the most relevant pages have 'propaganda' headings added to them. Are these headings immune to vandal deletion? --Crabappleslegalteam 12:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean by "vandal deletion"?--The General T Sys U! P! F! 12:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't that be protected against being deleted or speedy deleted and bei9ng edited by anyone? --MarieThe Grove 16:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Right, so they are immune to being deleted by anybody other than moderators? We're just wondering, because this edit war pretty much started over our desire for somesuch to appear on the Crabapple webpage, subsequent to Elias's History Guff appearing, and Elias's constant deletion of it.--Crabappleslegalteam 16:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Elyas doesn't seem very active now... his only edit in 2 days has been cleaning up his talk page, so you decide on what to do with that. As forthe propaganda heading, they don't protect the page. It's simply to advise third parties that there's alot of bullshit on the page. It would be bad faith to remove them though, but the page is still entitled to deletion if it meets the require ments. (Don't worry, I have no interests in arbitrating this.) -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 21:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Assuming you don't mind, and there is no opposition, we definitely would like the removal of the Escaped mental patients page, regardless, along with the Jimmy Slitter pand Harald von Holzapfel pages (if they really exist in any way) along with links to the them. The escaped mental patients page is fairly tasteless, both with regards to Elias's entries, and our own. Oddly, it was never clear whether it was ever linked to from anywhere..... incidentally, while Elias has been inactive, Luigi Galleani has deleted the secondary 'ministry of truth' reference on the Crabapple page, and Lorosidiotas has made a minor and disinformative edit on the Pearl Arms page.... MAF as a whole are rather persistent in their efforts to control whats said about them and whats said in general, although these are minor quibbling edits, and not on a par with Elias's revision-of-history campaign. With regards to the Crabapple page, we'd be tempted to ask for it to be deleted in full. On the other hand, the 'this is propaganda' flag is what we wanted all along, here, and probably helps to show the MAF (and IUSS) to be the propagandist psycho-militant idiots we think they are.... plus, its this entry which sparked any of the Crabapple family and associates to do anything on the wiki in the first place! It would be one in the eye for MAF, of course, which , may be bad, because they are a persistant bunch, but on the other hand may curb them from (what we see as) further excesses. With regards to our own entries for the school and factory, well, its tempting to ask for them to be left on, since we reckon theres something in the way of truth to them..... on the other hand, it would be a long term show of propaganda on our part, which reduces us to the same level as the MAF, and they are locations, so probably shouldn't have this kind of stuff on at all, although God knows if anyone will ever put anything else on them... can we delay deciding what we want to ask for these latter three pages until Monday? We'd like to ask Lord Crabapple what he wants.... we want a good Christmas bonus! (IRL: we probably won't see him until Monday) he was quite appalled by the suggestion that an aristocrat such as himself would sully his hands with such a low money grabbing activity as industrialism, however. Of course, its your wiki, and if you want over zealous group conflict rubbish deleted, the whole lot of these pages should go. In general, if we want to delete our entries, or modify them, can we give it a go? The West Boundwood one we'd like to tone down a bit.... adding a further (optimistic) end-of-this-particular propaganda message may be appropriate as well....by the way, isn't it illegal to delete warnings on your user talk page? We thought there was a policy somewhere about it... and can we apply for these propaganda flags? We have a suspicion we'd quite fancy them for future revisionist history rewrites from the MAF. Oh, and we've just realised we've gone on for ages! Sorry about that--Crabappleslegalteam 02:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
In case you don't already know, you can find out what other pages link to a given page by using the "What links here" link on the left-hand side of the page. (It's under the Search box.) If you did already know, ignore this comment. Paul Brunner 18:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
We've been in communication with Lord Crabapple, and so we would like to ask for the deletion of all referred to pages, except for the 'Crabapple' page, which we're happy to remain for MAF and the IUSS to post their propaganda on as long as the 'propaganda' heading remains and is unremovable by them (or is unremoveable without censure)! The West Boundwood page reference we'd probably like to change, as previously mentioned. Paul: No, we hadn't noticed that!!! Never underestimate the ability for people to ignore the obvious! Thanks!

And can we ask for further 'propaganda' headings to be added if this sort of thing appears on further pages?--Crabappleslegalteam 13:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure... The propaganda template is easy to add. There's no way to make it so people can't remove it without protecting the whole page, but it's easy to watch the page and make sure it stays... It's more of an informal notice though, none of the mods use it. I just prefer not using the official ones, so that I'm sure I'm not misusing them, and besides the Propaganda template has so much more style. ;) -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 22:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
There is a way, but it requires an extension. It'd be a great help if it were to be installed. *hint hint*Xoid MTFU! 23:42, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, if you're happy to maintain it, or be asked to restore it when deleted (the propaganda template), we're still happy for the Crabapple page to stay, otherwise, we'd probably prefer it gone. All the rest, we would like deleted, especially the Escaped mental patients page, on the basis of general tastelessness... of course, its really up to you. Sadly, we suspect further edit wars of a similar kind may occur in the future (although never caused by ourselves, of course - we're far too nice, really. Honest! Oh) - can we just report future 'propaganda' character histories? Vandal edits? Oh, we should probably look up the rules, like good lawyers.... --Crabappleslegalteam 1:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
If they're editing your page without permission report them to vandal banning. They'll get warned first, and if they persist, they'll get banned. Mutilating someone else's page is not kosher and will be dealt with, just keep us up to date, a'ight? –Xoid MTFU! 04:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Is this it? Any chance of deletion of the requested pages? We quite like the propaganda flag as well, by the way. Can we edit the entry on the West Boundwood page? Sorry if this has gone on too long, incidentally (especially given its not really much of an arbitration, with one party not turning up).--Crabappleslegalteam 00:41, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Not here. Try deletions. If enough people think their page has no merit, it'll get nuked. As to the template, I'll add the page to my watchlist and try to keep it under control, but I can't make any promises; I'm less active than I used to be. –Xoid MTFU! 04:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Cheers! We'll put in for the deletions soon, and probably clear up other such legal matters eventually. We'll also tone down the West Boundwood entry, since no-one's objected as far as we can tell. Thanks for the arbitrations, everybody! We assume that's it....Crabappleslegalteam 00:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
You should probably show what you plan on doing on the talk page before actually doing it, to prevent an edit war from sparking on that page... -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 00:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
OK! well actually, we've already done it on the main page.... apparently at the same time you were recomending us to do the preparation on the discussion page. We'll change it back accordingly if neccesary. Incidentally, are you going to return the original discussion page afterward? Presuming we ever manage to agree to sort the contended item out ever.... we had a merry chat with some guy from the IUSS on that page--Crabappleslegalteam 11:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
If you insist on doing those conversations on the suburb's talk page, it could be done, I suppose, but it would be more appropriate if you recycled the page for peace/treaty/wathever instead to continue your talks. -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 20:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Hmmmm. We suspect its a bad idea to use the West Boundwood page as a discursive page for whats to go on the main page... it'll only invite further arguments regarding what goes on the main page, and probably involve further edit wars on this page..... and the MAF/Crabapple debate (such as it is) goes on its own page, which is currently loaded with threats :@)--Crabappleslegalteam 12:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

That said, we have noticed a rather naughty edit on the West Boundwood page, defining The Pearl Arms (Crabapple Manor) as an open revive point.... we deleted it, and have put a comment on the discussion pageCrabappleslegalteam 1:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed the talk page copy, as it was rather useless. -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 21:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
We request that the original content be returned, then - OK, it is mostly waffle, but thats why its on the discussion page rather than the main page, and there's a fair bit of waffle that is reasonably relevant to local party politics... Crabappleslegalteam 1:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
The section where the "discussion" was going on has been restored... -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 02:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Cheers!--Crabappleslegalteam 13:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, you should probably return the rest of the content as well, since loads of people had already put loads of stuff on it already Crabappleslegalteam 1:17, 22 November 2006 (GMT)
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