UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/Jorm and the MOB vs Zeug and Extinction

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Jorm and the MOB versus Zeug and Extinction

Despite being repeatedly told in many places that the Militant Order of Barhah will have nothing to with him or his group of zergers, he has continued to place our name among his list of supporters.

I want nothing less than to have him be forbidden to even *type* our name anywhere on this wiki. I want all references to us struck. I would like a public apology for speaking as our mouthpiece without authority.

Any other groups who wish to add themselves to this case may feel free to do so.--Jorm 21:13, 22 September 2008 (BST)

I offer to arbitrate. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 21:36, 22 September 2008 (BST)
As do I. -- Cheese 21:43, 22 September 2008 (BST)
I'll also raise my hand.--'BPTmz 02:52, 23 September 2008 (BST)
I make myself unavailable for this case. I want nothing to do with this petty drama fest. Dont even name me. --The Grimch U! E! 03:41, 23 September 2008 (BST)
Iscariot is totally inappropriate to arbitrate here, he's very much involved and is obviously being disingenuous. Krazy or Panther are fine by me. One note, this has nothing to do with Extinction! It's about an open access Zombie portal I'm offering as a community resource and the MoB is listed as one of the groups it accesses. As for 'zerging' I don't whereas barhah.com is an alt sharing site no different from the DEM. And as for being forbidden to type the term MoB anywhere on this wiki, well that's not only patently absurd it would also set a completely ridiculous wiki precedent. --Zeug 04:31, 23 September 2008 (BST)
I will accept Cheese.--Jorm 05:23, 23 September 2008 (BST)
Krazy Cheese it is then ... wow ... did we just agree on something jorm? --Zeug 10:27, 23 September 2008 (BST)

Alreet, let's get this show on the road. -- Cheese 10:48, 23 September 2008 (BST)

Cheese's opening statement

Ok doke. The way this is going to work is as follows: First Jorm will present his case under the header labelled "Jorm's Statement" then Zeug will do the same under the header labelled "Zeug's Statement". After both statements have been posted, I'll have a quick review, ask any clarifying questions if needbe and then allow Jorm to rebut Zeug's statement and Zeug to rebut Jorm's statements and maybe another rebuttal each if I feel the need. After that, I will make my ruling.

Only post under your own headers and please provide evidence (if applicable) in the form of diff links detailing the edit you (or your opponent) made.

That's all I have to say. Let's get started.

Jorm's Statement

It's very simple. Zeug has continually been told, from day one, that the MOB and myself want nothing to do with him. He has been permanently banned from barhah.com because of his aggressiveness in promoting a behavior which we do not wish to enjoy.

The MOB has a standing orders thread to never deal with Zeug or Extinction in any way, shape, or form - especially using their shitty portal software which just gives Zeug your password anyway.

He created a new page about some "United Zombies of Malton" group and indicated that the MOB (and several others) were members. We are not. We had our name removed. He put them back up. We removed them again. He put them back up. The page is now protected to avoid an edit war, but it is protected in the *wrong state*.

I want our name removed from that page. Further, I want to be sure that he cannot speak with our voice again, ever - so the next time he creates some new zerg-tastic machine, we don't have to sit through this bullshit again.--Jorm 18:00, 23 September 2008 (BST)

Ok. I've got all the info I need from this statement and I can't think of anything else that would be of relevance to this case. Zeug, over to you. -- Cheese 23:13, 23 September 2008 (BST)

Zeug's Statement

Zeug or myself (Cheese) only to post beyond this point.

Alrighty then.

First up one point of clarification which goes towards illustrating the differences of opinion between me and jorm, and Extinction and the MoB. Extinction does not zerg, or at least it 'zergs' as much as MoB or any other player group in UD none of which have control over or can even know what their player base actually gets up to in game. The original argument arose with the 3 city corner / 3 alt Extinction policy from around March 07 so its an argument about multi-alts that is also ancient history as Extinction Leader Brainz reverted to a one alt policy quite some time ago. I've been banned from barhah.com for pointing out the blindingly obvious hypocrisy of jorm who runs a large zombie multi-alt sharing site at barhah.com which is essentially no different from a networking perspective than the DEM site at Brainstock. In this sense I completely reject one of the main premises of his 'argument' concerning Extinction and 'zerging'.

Secondly I'd like to clarify the function of the UZM browser and its history. It is a frameset based around the original Extinction Taccon built by myself around March 07 in order to enhance my own UD game experience and give me ready access to Extinction comms, forums and other resources. The main purpose of the Extinction Taccon beyond coordinating my Extinction Taccon Squad is to provide ferals with an in game meta game and hook them into Extinction assaults and we spray the http://tinyurl.com/yr6h3c everywhere the Taccon operates. A stripped down php template was added around April 07 to which I add extra zed group browsers via a simple config edit. This 'secret' intel tool allowed me not only to get acquainted with the various zed groups Extinction works alongside in the NW but is also very handy in jumping into my various alts at the MoB and others.

Since I personally find it useful, in fact the UD city screen is so totally barren I feel naked without it, I decided to offer it up as an open access information portal on the wiki available for the whole UD community to browse, survivor and zed, around June 07. The original idea was to offer to browsers for zed groups that might find it useful and the Undeadites were one of the first to express interest along with Lebende Tote and others not infected with that special brand of hyperthyroidal wank characteristic of the MoB/RRF multi-alt crew. That was the 'United' idea, to provide a network communications device that enabled not only intra but also inter group comms across the UD zombie-verse. The inclusion of barhah.com alt groups was in the interests of providing full coverage and the UZM 'unites' all the groups on it in a networking sense if not in zombie camaraderie.

The idea didn't really catch on and the UZM lapsed into the wiki depths over a year ago but I left it there as a point of reference on the wiki while still using and developing the zombie network website.

nb: Jorm's claim that the "portal software just gives Zeug your password" is patently false and I can only presume he knows this due to his apparent expertise in setting up barhah.com and nexus. Anyone with half decent html skills will be able to recognize a frameset and understand that it is no different than having all the links the UZM browser supplies in a bookmark folder in their own web browser. There is absolutely no way a frameset can 'steal' a password as the city screen displayed within it belongs to Kevan's UD server, not mine. Unfortunately Kevan never wrote a url rewrite for the ubiquitous 'www' subdomain so all UD players log into either http://www.urbandead.com/map.cgi or http://urbandead.com/map.cgi. Depending on which url your browser cookies are written to you will either log on automatically or be asked for a password. Jorm should know all this and uses the problem to discourage others using the portal by simply lying to them and erasing any clarifications I may post to barhah.com.

Thirdly, it has been claimed that the UZM in its current form is an Extinction built and hosted device. I'd like to point out that the page and the site it links to are no an Extinction project. They are my project and while the browser structure was initially developed for my own use within Extinction the site as a whole in now a completely neutral resource offered to all.

  1. I'd like clarification from jorm on just what particular aspects of the UZM indicate any connection with Extinction apart from that groups inclusion. I developed it as a neutral zombie network and I seriously cannot see any connection to the Extinction group to which I belong, amongst others ... apart from the fact I built it.

Fourth: Jorm's original arbitration request included "I want nothing less than to have him be forbidden to even *type* our name anywhere on this wiki. I want all references to us struck." I'm fine with being banned from any mention of User:Jorm and his MoB so long as he is likewise banned from any mention of the myself or Extinction and all of Jorm's and any MoB members references to Extinction on the wiki are also erased. As for "I would like a public apology for speaking as our mouthpiece without authority", I find this patently absurd and will state for the record here that I have absolutely no respect for this whiny little bitch of a user and his totally gay quasi-religious pope-ish nonsense that he insists on role playing here in the wiki. He should keep it for his sickeningly sycophantic members on barhah.com where he can misrepresent and abuse people, ban and erase their messages at will.

Conclusion, concerning the edit war on the UZM, I was not approached on my wiki talk page or on the UZM discussion with any queries or suggestions for edits prior to the page being edited so I reverted the first few attempts at editing by User:WanYao and User:Iscariot and then found them on User_talk:Grim_s#re:_UZM_crapfest. Now I'm a long time wiki user here and elsewhere, I also install and edit mediawikis, I understand how they work both in terms of the code and the community and my first and fundamental wiki principle is never allow the usual hyperactive wiki morons, that wikis always attract, to dictate terms. Otherwise those who SHOUT THE LOUDEST AND LONGEST will take over the wiki process. I think this wiki has just such a moron culture which is unfortunate. In dealing with idiots like jorm and his bum boy wan I will always give as good as I get and more ... simply on principle. Because if we allow that sort of behaviour to become a wiki culture the wiki itself will suffer.

If they could get their heads out of their arses and approach me not in a 'polite' sense but just straight up front then I'm fine with that. Users like for example Grim and Sonny are in my opinion good wiki examples that pre-pubescent dickheads like wan could learn a lot from, rather than sucking up his masters crusty arse. Now I'm presenting this here because THIS IS MY SOLE COMPLAINT about this whole UZM debacle.

  1. I absolutely don't care about the UZM wiki page beyond the principle that any edits should be discussed in a rationally constructive way on its discussion page.
  2. Users wishing to change aspects of it should do so in a manner that is up front and not disingenuous or pointlessly SHOUTING ABUSING AND DEMANDING.
  3. The list isn't even mine, it was added by Insomniac when he was new and uninfected by barhah.com lies and thought it was a good idea. I have no qualms deleting the list in its entirety and have already committed to doing so for the CRF.
  4. When I proved resistant to the MoB demands led by wan and iscariot, and grim locked the page, they took their bad faith one step further and followed grims advice by starting the IRC coordinated barhah.com assault on the UZM deletions thread.


  1. That you not set a wiki precedent by requiring the deletion of links solely on the basis of one group's antithesis to another. The links in question are purely factual and point towards the actual group browsers included in the external site.
  2. That you seriously consider concerns regarding wiki precedents being set for disallowing the use of terms such as 'United'. The UZM does unite the zombies included in a purely neutral network sense.
    1. I have already indicated my willingness to both delete the links (as with Sonny) and in my first reply to Wan Yao's bad faith deletion request, offered to change the term United to a more neutral UZM Zombie Browser and edited the image. All I need to complete thse edits is to have the page unlocked and for the protagonists to approach me in non trolling, good faith. Ergo:
  3. Require Jorm, as representative of the MoB and barhah.com, to formally request on the UZM discussion page:
    1. That the term 'United' be changed and the page redirected in order to get rid of any implied association or endorsement.
    2. That the link to the MoB browser be deleted.
    3. That a disclaimer be added making clear that the UZM is a third party tool unaffiliated with any of the Zombie groups it covers.
  4. And furthermore that he makes this request in a rational way without trolling and in the spirit of wiki cooperation as according to wiki guidelines.

Cheers --Zeug 08:31, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Cheese's Middle Bit

Do not advance beyond this point until I say so. You may continue

Right, you've both presented your arguments. I have read them both and have no further questions. I'm going to allow Jorm to respond to Zeug's statement (if he wishes) after which, Zeug may respond to Jorm's response (again, if he wishes to). After that I will decide whether to allow a second round of rebuttals or just to go straight to a decision.

Jorm's Rebuttal

I have nothing to say. My complaint is cut and dried, and his response was tl;dr.--Jorm 19:08, 25 September 2008 (BST)

Zeug's Rebuttal

Zeug only beyond this point

Awwww jorm you killjoy ... so, my closing statement: I think far too many people take themselves far too seriously on this wiki. It's just a game wiki and while role playing can be fun in the appropriate places such as in the suburb and group pages it really isn't appropriate when dealing with others in places like simple resource info pages, in administrative pages and so on. It just disrupts the wiki process as a whole and leads to bad feelings all round. What we need is a culture of Love not Hate, where there is ill will and discord let us sow friendship and unity, trade compliments not insults, and forge ahead towards a bright new Malton day.

I love you Jorm, you beautiful deadhead.

I'd also like to thank Wan Yao and Iscariot without whose energetic help none of this would have been possible. You've all raised Extinction's profile just when we most needed assistance and hopefully with the new forum and renewed recruitment we can rebuild our player base and keep the idea of Salt the Land alive as a viable gaming concept in UD at a time when the NW Malton Zombie Apocalypse Zone is fading away.

So go for it Krazy, whatever you decide is fine by me.

Yours in loving kindness,

Zeug 02:11, 26 September 2008 (BST)

Cheese's three quarters bit

I shall now retire to make my verdict. I will study all the statements supplied to me and will draw my conclusions and decide on the best course of action.

I'll sleep on it and post a full verdict at some point tomorrow. -- Cheese 23:35, 26 September 2008 (BST)


Ok. I got bored. Here we go.

I won't bother summarising the case as it has been dragged out more than enough already. Instead I am going to offer my recommendations and a reason for them. Some of these are binding, and if broken will lead to vandalism charges being brought against the offender. Others are requests that are not binding as such but I strongly recommend they are carried out in order to keep things from boiling over again.

  • First and foremost, both Jorm and Zeug are forbidden from attempting to contact each other in any form on this wiki for a period of 1 month from today. This is to avoid any further arguments and flare-ups over this matter. This is binding and if broken will result in a vandal escalation.
  • Secondly. The UZM page shall be deleted and replaced with a page omitting any mention of the "United Zombies of Malton" naming it simply Urban Dead Zombie Portal. This is due to the fact that it seems as though the "UZM" is a group of some sort, while it is far, far from it. The page should simply state that it is a 3rd party external web tool that links together various zombie resources while not being officially endorsed, supported or even acknowledged by any of the groups that are linked to it. Again, this is binding and if it is not carried out in the manner I have requested, then the "UZM" will be limited to a link in External Links only. I also request that neither Jorm or any representatives of the MOB edit the page without due reason. Again, this is to prevent further grief and arguments over the page.
  • Thirdly, I request that Zeug removes the MOB from the tool, along with any other groups that wish to be removed. While I understand you want to provide an easy access portal to all major zombie groups, the wishes of the groups should be respected. I also think the shoutboxes are rather misleading and request that you replace the individual ones with an all encompassing one that can be used from all pages of the portal. Another recommendation is the removal of the "<group name> supports Urban Dead" due to its ambiguity. It seems to suggest that the group has endorsed the tool while in reality they haven't. I strongly recommend that you do these things, however, with it being your own project that is hosted away from the wiki, I have no control over your actions and cannot enforce it within my mandate as arbitrator. For the sake of harmony on the wiki, I do request that you do do that which I have mentioned.
  • Fourthly, this ruling does not apply to Iscariot or WanYao in any way as they are not involved in this case.

I believe this is a fair resolution to the problem, bearing in mind that I cannot control the contents of an externally hosted project.

Thank You and have a pleasant morning/afternoon/evening/night. -- Cheese 00:56, 27 September 2008 (BST)

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