UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/NWO vs Cobra, Aichon and RadicalWhig

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NWO vs Cobra, User:Aichon and User:RadicalWhig

Also note discussions here, here, here, here, and here. --VVV RPGMBCWS

I'm calling this arbitration because of the endless flame war, instigations, manipulating and trolling of NWO members. Here is an example of the slander we get from these users. This page should be deleted and any that have been clearly made to defame and insult NWO. Most of the information on this page can not be edited by members of NWO and quotes are taken out of context. Anyone supporting to keep this page is openly supporting the trolling of a group on this wiki. This page wasn't originally a "Parody group", it was made to insult NWO and it's users. Does deleting This page for being too short and insulting seem logical when The_Best_of_NWO gets to stay because they recently changed the page into a "Parody" with some advice from a Sysop Here to make it into a "Group parody" and that it's a longer insult? Basically the deletion request turned into a move request during the deletion process, skipping protocol. These users have made talking with other users on the wiki hard and very unpleasant by continuously instigating us by means of vulgar name calling and foul language. Furthermore, these players have begun to edit Krinks_Power_Station with false, needless and biased information on a NPOV page. The edits to this page stating our "focus" is false if you read here; keeping a public record of NWO sightings in Krinks on the Krinks page is irrelevant and even if it was relevant, pointless because nobody is going to update the page everytime a NWO member leaves or enter Krinks; Stating how many NWO were "slain" is off topic to the entire page, especially the "inhabitants" section and should be considered biased. Users I would gladly accept to Arbitrate if User:TripleU isn't acceptable:

Many users on the wiki are not what I would consider neutral, so the list is short. -.- 06:26, 11 September 2013 (BST)

I throw my name in as potential arbitrator. My credentials? I haven't played Urban Dead since St. Patrick's Day 2013, almost half a year ago. Hell, this is my first post on the wiki since...What? Almost a year, year and a half? That should qualify me as neutral. --Axe Hack: The Legend Returns to the Wiki 07:07, 11 September 2013 (BST)
With no personal offense intended, Axe Hack, I have had a not-insignificant-not-completely-friendly past interacting with you, so I strongly doubt you could be fully neutral in this case. --RadicalWhig 07:13, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Shot down by Raddy. Back to hibernation/ninja wiki stalker mode then. Bye, UDWiki. It was fun while it lasted. The entire hour of it. --Axe Hack: The Legend Returns to the Wiki 07:54, 11 September 2013 (BST)
i had to look up what arbitration meant. as somebody who made an honest attempt to be neutral in this whole thing, i, anja arnheim, offer to be middle ground. to me, this is not about who is right and who is wrong, it is about seeing both sides and coming up with a solution to the problem. --Surgeon General of the City of MaltonAnja 07:32, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I will accept you if radical accepts axe hack. H4ppy 24 7 08:03, 11 September 2013 (BST)
That makes no sense whatsoever. Do you want the both of them arbitrating together or something? That is a no, by the way.--RadicalWhig 08:08, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Even though you have tried to be neutral, I'm afraid you're not with our past conflicts. Can't trust your opinion, sorry. H4ppy 24 7 07:36, 11 September 2013 (BST)
two things, happy. the fact that i do not have a bias in all of this would make me perfect middle ground. the fact that i was not with your past conflicts, as you say, would make me perfect arbitration. it is like a jury. each juror is cross examined during court procedure, and if they are even exposed to the news, they carry bias and are just to replace with another juror. and since when is a problem solver entitled to an opinion? you are pretty much telling me that you cannot trust me to listen to both sides to find a way to solve this thing you and new world order are going through. i can accept this, but it is logic flaw. enjoy your biased arbitration, since it is what you want. --Surgeon General of the City of MaltonAnja 07:51, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Just kidding, that won't happen. no means no. Shaving your opinion down my throat and rejecting my decision doesn't doom my arbitration to a biased ruling. I know you want to arbitrate, for god knows why. I simply don't trust you because you have been extremely flip floppy, jealous and rude in the past. Thanks, but no thanks. H4ppy 24 7 08:13, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Ahem. Let me, RadicalWhig, make a few comments.
  • "Most of the information on this page can not be edited by members of NWO and quotes are taken out of context."
Putting aside the fact that most of those quotes are quite damning regardless of any possible mitigating context, your quotes on the wiki are 100% public and thus not protected. And of course the information on BoNWO page cannot be edited, just like I can't edit the NWO page without your permission. Unless you want that to change? I wouldn't mind being able to edit the NWO page if you could edit best of NWO. :)
  • "Anyone supporting to keep this page is openly supporting the trolling of a group on this wiki"
Lord no. You mean there has been the presence of TROLLING on the UDwiki? Heavens, such outrage, how could this possibly happen.
  • "Does deleting This page for being too short and insulting seem logical "
No one cares that RadicalWhig-An analysis is too short or insulting, no one made any arguments about that. In fact, though I didn't comment on keeping/deleting it, I would have preferred it be kept. The point is that the page was clearly off topic. There's precedence for Parody groups to be kept on the wiki mainspace, and that precedent does not apply to RW-AA. Also, Paynetrain agreeing to the deletion of the RW-AA page pretty much torpedoed your chances there. You're welcome to take another swing at your retort, though, if that makes you feel better about not understanding UD wiki civics.
  • " Basically the deletion request turned into a move request during the deletion process, skipping protocol. "
Uh, no. You can vote move, delete, keep or speedy. It says that clear as day on the A/D page. Jebus, do some light reading buddy. Spiderzed voted move, and he's the only one who did. It's a perfectly valid choice.
  • " These users have made talking with other users on the wiki hard and very unpleasant by continuously instigating us by means of vulgar name calling and foul language."
I think I will just submit this:
Stfu.jpg Shut 2 idiots up
Posted by you too, no less.
  • " Krinks blah blah blah blah blah"
Not my business, so I'll avoid going into depth. But you do realize that you are also partially at fault, because it takes two to make an edit war, right?
  • "Many users on the wiki are not what I would consider neutral, so the list is short. "
Yeah, your comments on little girls being raped and flipping off random sysops has endeared the populace, I would assume.
With love, --RadicalWhig 07:04, 11 September 2013 (BST)
This is about you leaving us alone so we can leave you alone and the POV edits on krinks. With that, I stand corrected. H4ppy 24 7 07:18, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Before I dive headlong into this, I want to be certain of something.
Having read through your statement, the fact that the only apparent reference to me was as "a Sysop" suggests to me the possibility that you believe I abused my sysop powers in some way. If so, the wiki has a proper course of action for dealing with that sort of issue: you would take me to Misconduct and make your case there. If you decide to go that route, which you are quite welcome to do, the other sysops will make a judgment on whether or not I abused my powers or authority.
If, however, the issue you wish to arbitrate with me is something else entirely, you might consider simply trying to discuss it with me first, rather than going straight to arbitration with no warning at all. This arbitration case comes as a surprise to me, since I didn't think that you and I had any issues that were significant enough to warrant such action. If you believe differently, however, then so be it. Aichon 07:50, 11 September 2013 (BST)
there were two references to you. The word manipulation.have we not had conflicts with PK in the past which has sprung out of control flaming? Have you not been part of this from the start? I do recall your "in character" comments comparing me to a child and influencing many insults even after making everyone in NWO apologize to everyone who seemed to care about what happened.H4ppy 24 7 08:24, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I would like to point out Arbies here is for wiki conflicts and not in-game conflicts. Whatever Aichon has done in-game does not fall in line with a case reagrding wiki related materials... --Axe Hack: The Legend Returns to the Wiki 08:34, 11 September 2013 (BST)
H4ppy was referring to this. --VVV RPGMBCWS 08:38, 11 September 2013 (BST)
You never actually mentioned the in-character stuff in your statement, so thank you for clearing that up. If you want to go after me for in-character comments I made, by all means, feel free to do so. As the others, however, I would suggest breaking this case up into multiple cases, since you're pursuing different people for different reasons. Aichon 16:53, 11 September 2013 (BST)

I've been paying attention to Krinks on-and-off since Cornholio. I've got a bit of a background in considering page deletion, and a significant background in editing location pages. If I were to arbitrate, my first priority would be to insure that Krinks Power Station is made accurate and informative. I don't expect that the two sides will ever reach much of an understanding, but I would at least attempt to keep them from brawling around and smashing up the wiki. Also, don't expect me to take much action against Aichon if his only offense was edit protecting Krinks Power Station. --VVV RPGMBCWS 08:32, 11 September 2013 (BST)

No, as H4ppy just said a few lines above, Aichon also was IMPOLITE to H4ppy on a private group's talk page. Impolite, I say! Such appalling behavior. Terrible, terrible thing, when people are less than perfectly polite to CyberOpp, as he's always the most polite and gentle person, who wouldn't provoke anyone at all, or anything, nope nope nope.--RadicalWhig 08:39, 11 September 2013 (BST)
As you can see, radical constantly interpretes anything that has no reference to him, takes the liberty of commenting on things that aren't any of his business to simply make us look bad. Usually for no particular reason either. H4ppy 24 7 08:49, 11 September 2013 (BST)
It's called freedom of speech, Herr Goebbels.--RadicalWhig 08:53, 11 September 2013 (BST)
The timing was horrible. Expect me to believe we don't have issues after freezing the kinks building on a bias cobra edit and fueling insults with one past insult , then protecting an insult page by declaring it a parody.Thanks Aichon. Anyways, yes I agree with tripleU's statement. We won't be able to come to a conclusion because one side wishes to continue the flame and edit war. H4ppy 24 7 08:38, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I will accept UUU or Chief Seagull as arbitrator. Although, for... personal reasons, I would much prefer UUU. Now to see what Cobra and Aichon say. --RadicalWhig 08:41, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I would also like this Arby's case split into two, one against me and The Best of NWO page, and another about the Krinks thingy. Because I can't be arsed to wikilaw about the Krinks page, hilarious as it might be. --RadicalWhig 08:51, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I think Spiderzed or Sexualharison will have something to say about Krinks. You don't all need to cover the same points. --VVV RPGMBCWS 09:26, 11 September 2013 (BST)
my 2 cents. you do know that chief and axe are both members of cobra right? this was too easy and going right to the script i wrote. and when did you turn into such a ninny trip? and except for calling them dumb and incompetent: i've been quite civil about the entire thing. i'm just looking for truth on the wiki. not group self promotion and horse shit. off to work where i have no access and have better things to do. -- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 10:49, 11 September 2013
True as that may be, my last access with anything to do with UD (minus the Facebook pages) was almost six or more months ago. So technically I am a third party at this point, as well as being maybe the only one here right now who doesn't have a clue what has been going on during my absence, which would technically make me the most neutral at the moment. But of course, Rad rejected me, so I'm pretty much done here. --Axe Hack: The Legend Returns to the Wiki 11:45, 11 September 2013 (BST)
In my opinion this guy would be a good arbitrator thingy.I would also like to point out that my edits in Krinks power station made no attempt to disgrace the COBRA or any other group, which is quite the opposite in the case of the COBRA Re-edits....--PayneTrain(NWO/FU) 14:56, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Again, if you have an issue with how and when I froze the page, that's an issue for Misconduct to decide, not for arbitration, since an arbitrator does not have the authority necessary to decide such a matter (i.e. you can't go into arbitration with me for that issue). If you're planning to pursue arbitration against me for other reasons, however, then I will accept either TripleU or Seagull. Aichon 16:53, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I will additionally accept the following individuals as arbitrators:
With all of these options, I trust that we can find at least one that will be mutually agreeable. Aichon 20:56, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I am okay with all of these, save AHLG. He's just too helpful! --RadicalWhig 20:59, 11 September 2013 (BST)
My first time back since January and nobody wants me to arbitrate. I feel s unloved. :( --Axe Hack: The Legend Returns to the Wiki 21:27, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Is this going to be the fourth time in 24 hours you say you're leaving the wiki? --RadicalWhig 21:32, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Also, I strongly recommend you trust your feeling there. --RadicalWhig 21:33, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Meaning: Piss off. --RadicalWhig 21:33, 11 September 2013 (BST)
You seem stressed. Might I suggest finding your happy drug? For me, it's gaming. Maybe gaming might be your happy drug too? ^.^ --Axe Hack: The Legend Returns to the Wiki 22:07, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I suppose I would take the case. While I am currently in a third-party group with many of the people named by Happy247 in his case, I have also had the pleasure of serving under Happy in his old group, Revenge. He may well remember me by a different name. While this would be my first arbitration case, I am very familiar with how they work and their precedents, given that I have spent a great deal of time procrastinating by soaking my head into the vat of idiocy that is the Arbitration archives. I've also made it a point to keep well out of any drama which has been stirred up in the past few months, and believe that I am fully capable of bringing an unbiased viewpoint. However, I would certainly understand if any other parties involved in this case feel uncomfortable with the idea of me as Arbitrator. --DTPraise KnowledgePK 21:42, 11 September 2013 (BST)
I offer to arbitrate NWO vs Aichon if a separate case is made. That's about all I have time or interest in right now, though. ~Vsig.png 01:02, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
It's worth pointing out that the Cobra you're currently taking to arbitration is an inactive group. Perhaps you meant Cobra instead of Cobra? Aichon 17:34, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Dux Ducis said:
It's called freedom of speech, Herr Goebbels.

its called being a smartass and a showoff,don't confuse the two.....please,i know it's hard,but try.--PayneTrain(NWO/FU) 15:22, 11 September 2013 (BST)

I am somewhat disappointed into seeing this one happening. There has been no attempt to contact me on my talk page first about the Krinks page - going straight to arbies is like cracking a nut with a sledgehammer. (I am also uncomfortable with being challenged to a duel of wits by Cyberopposition, as it is one of my iron principles to never strike an unarmed man, but I digress.) I will happily accept User:Chief Seagull. -- Spiderzed 18:41, 11 September 2013 (BST)

For those of you playing from home, note that Chief Seagull has a character in Cobra. --VVV RPGMBCWS 19:47, 11 September 2013 (BST)
Does he? Learn something new every day. Aichon 20:00, 11 September 2013 (BST)

Ahem... as both sides agree, I humbly accept the role of arbitrot. After reviewing all of the available evidence, it is my humble opinion that Cobra is awesome. HAIL COBRA! Erm, yeah... obviously I can't do this as I'm not a neutral party - this has absolutely nothing to do with a certain young lady pointing a Hello Kitty pistol at my head. ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ talk 20:17, 11 September 2013 (BST)

I'll offer to arbitrate this case. I'm in none of the groups and have had no part in the wikidrama. --K 22:47, 11 September 2013 (BST)
not so fast missy. you are ex cobra. -- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 02:14, 12 September 2013
also for the time being.. there is no NWO in krinks. [1]. ta da!-- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 03:17, 12 September 2013
Again sexual, off-topic. Nobody cares about Krinks except cobra. How many times do I need to point this out,"The Krinks building is The Official Head Quarters of The New World Order; for strategic purposes, this does not guarantee that Krinks will be maintained." under our Williamsville Loyalty Act. So, there is no "Win" here for Cobra, there will never be a win condition for cobra either. Actually, While I do not have screenshots, I do suspect alt abuse. I have very little faith in the honesty and integrity of most PKer groups due to their cheating tendencies. -.- 04:16, 12 September 2013 (BST)
If there really is alt abuse going on, the smart thing to do would have been to keep quiet about it until you can collect solid evidence. Once an alt abuser knows you're on to them, they become extra cautious (if they care). --VVV RPGMBCWS 05:01, 12 September 2013 (BST)
So, not to distract you too much from accusing SH of being off-topic while you make blanket generalizations based on five year old undocumented, alleged misdeeds of a single individual who has no relevance whatsoever to the current proceedings, but you do realize that the reason this case hasn't started already is because we're waiting on you to pick a new arbitrator, right? Aichon 05:24, 12 September 2013 (BST)
Now what has an ages old event where Headless Gunner was disqualified in to do with any of the persons involved here? Colour me puzzled. -- Spiderzed 06:35, 12 September 2013 (BST)

That event became riddled with cheating. I almost forgot why I quit playing UD. Silly me for thinking things got any better, on the contrary, they got worse. Now everyone is a bunch of sarcastic jerks. I do remember the wiki being much more pleasant and less condescending. It's astonishing how many of you want to relive krinks past by repeating what's happened before, where's the originality in that? I digress, I'm not going to waste my time to make cheaters public or build something on the wiki just to be attacked for it and letting new users of the wiki and NWO have fun and make their own posts and ideas public. For all I care now, you guys can stew together. I wonder what you guys will do without me to pick at. I guess you can't move on from our past mistakes and feel the need to ridicule and harass users who're mearly trying to enjoy the game and the community. Rant complain rant complain. I'm disappointed in this community. No love and no fun. H4ppy 24 7 05:28, 12 September 2013 (BST)

said the the guy with multiple alts in the same group. and it's relative to my statements that you can't claim something unless you occupy it or control it in someway. so until you can prove than i will revert any edit to that page.-- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 05:29, 12 September 2013
I do also believe that it was cobra that has made our claiming of krinks official. It's our HQ, not our property Mr self righteous. Try to refrain from shaving words in my or my groups mouth. Thanks H4ppy 24 7 05:42, 12 September 2013 (BST)
my alts are all posted public. Sorry man, I'm not using multiple alts in the same group. Oh how you wish I did.H4ppy 24 7 05:35, 12 September 2013 (BST)

I revoke my trust in tripleU and will no longer accept him to arb (That includes seagull, of course). H4ppy 24 7 05:31, 12 September 2013 (BST)

Then you need to accept one of the others that has been proposed or suggest your own (I provided a list of alternatives I'll accept up above). If you don't do either of those, you can either choose to withdraw the case or else have an arbitrator appointed for the case by the sysops. Aichon 05:43, 12 September 2013 (BST)
screw it, DT works. H4ppy 24 7 05:54, 12 September 2013 (BST)
Now we just need Cobra and Whig to agree. Given Spiderzed's earlier maneuver of only accepting the arbitrator who's a member of Cobra, I feel the need to state what should already be obvious. This wiki will benefit if you actually agree on an arbitrator, you reach a conclusion, and this feud cools down. This wiki will be harmed if the NWO is driven out of this wiki, disheartened and discredited, like some of you want. --VVV RPGMBCWS 06:29, 12 September 2013 (BST)
DT is acceptable. -- Spiderzed 06:35, 12 September 2013 (BST)
Whig already agreed to DT earlier when he said he was fine with everyone on my list besides AHLG. So, at this point, we have an arbitrator who everyone agrees to and who has agreed to arbitrate. Time to get this thing started. Aichon 06:38, 12 September 2013 (BST)
I want to be an arbie!.who wants me?........i know radical lovwees me,so doesw cobra,who else???:D--PayneTrain(NWO/FU) 15:20, 12 September 2013 (BST)

I'd like to point out to DT that CyberOpposition launched this case, not H4ppy. --VVV RPGMBCWS 22:05, 12 September 2013 (BST)

They're the same person. Aichon 22:10, 12 September 2013 (BST)
than he should only use the account that made the case. it's confusing too outside people like tripleu-- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 04:38, 13 September 2013

Case Proceedings

This may be my first Arbitration case, but I will not allow bickering to reign. Space is provided for each of you to post. Do NOT edit in a space which does not have your name on it, or I will revert your edits.
First of all, I will need Happy 24 7 to explain his case. I want you to be clear, concise, and address your grievances with each named opponent separately. I do not want to have to dig through one big paragraph trying to find each different complaint.

Once Happy has done this, the Representative from Cobra (tell me who you are first, on my talk page, lest I remove your edit), Aichon, and RadicalWhig are to respond to the complaints against each of them. Please DO NOT comment on complaints against other parties unless it directly involves you. Treat each response as your own opening statement. I've made them responses because after reading the arguments above the line, I'm not convinced that any of you know quite what the complaints are either.

Once these are done, I shall probably have questions for all of you, and then there will most likely be a waiting period in which I research precedent for each complaint, since I honestly have no idea what is going on beyond there being an edit war on the Krinks page.

One more thing, please keep this clean. I do not want to see foul language, the word "Fail", or similar insults thrown around. There's no need for that, and it can only hurt your case.

Happy 24 7's First Statement:

I will begin with the biased Krinks Power Plant edit made by Spider to self promote Cobra.

Sexualharrison said:
i'm just looking for truth on the wiki. not group self promotion and horse shit. off to work where i have no access and have better things to do. -- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 10:49, 11 September 2013

After trying to revert these edits back, Sexual decided to instigate an edit war. I'm ashamed to say that I did take part, not knowing what else to do. The edits made onto Krinks were made to make Cobra look good and NWO look bad. NWO doesn't see Krinks as property and doesn't care if the building is ruined or pinatated. It's still our headquarters even if we don't defend or claim it.

I will continue onto Sexualharrison who can't seem to stop initiating harassing comments to members of New World Order. Even after trying to be civil and nice.

RadicalWhig usually pops up out of nowhere to find ways to humiliate and harass us when something has nothing to do with him.

Spider started this whole thing over this. Not that I'm against competition or people wanting to PK us, but it's over edits that were made by Jeb, who's new to the wiki and Urban Dead. I'll actually point out that Jeb joined NWO because RRF wasn't responding on their forum, but after all this crap went down, I haven't heard from him sense. I was going to establish connections with RRF in IRC so Jeb could join them.

I do not see how This page is constructive to NWO or the wiki, I do not see how many of RadicalWhigs contributions are constructive to anyone but himself and those he associates with. I do not see how "The Best of NWO" can be classified as a "Parady Group" when it has been made to harass NWO and its members from the start and is now considered a "Parody" to protect it in a round-about way.

Nobody in NWO wants this to continue, flame wars happen wether we like it or not. New users on the wiki will make mistakes, I'll be the first to admit that I've made many,many mistakes, but that is not an excuse to make me or my group feel bad or inferior. -.- 02:13, 13 September 2013 (BST)

Do you have any complaints against Aichon, or shall I excuse him from any further participation in this case? --DTPraise KnowledgePK 02:29, 13 September 2013 (BST)

Dismissed. H4ppy 24 7 03:17, 13 September 2013 (BST)

Cobra's First Response

User:CyberOpposition wrote:
I will begin with the biased Krinks Power Plant edit made by Spider to self promote Cobra.

This edit isn't biased, but a good faith attempt at improving the factuality of the Krinks Power Plant. Rather than to outright revert the edits by Paynetrain, I have decided to replace obvious falsities and to add supplemental information relevant to the claim of NWO on this building.

I will refrain from bolstering that claim with evidence for now, as that is better left to latter stages of the arbitration where attention to details can be payed.

User:CyberOpposition wrote:
After trying to revert these edits back, Sexual decided to instigate an edit war. I'm ashamed to say that I did take part, not knowing what else to do.

If it is about the edit war, you should have taken Harrison directly to arbitration, rather than to take a whole group hostage because he happens to be a member of. The group as a whole hasn't participated in an edit war, and neither was I as the group leader given a reasonable time-frame to react to the edit war before the page was protected and the arbitration case was set up. It would have been a much more reasonable and level-headed course of action to contact me on my talk page, give me time to log in, evaluate the situation and respond, rather than to quickdraw the big guns and call for Arbies.

But as the damage is already done, I will represent Harrison in this case as good as I can.

User:CyberOpposition wrote:
The edits made onto Krinks were made to make Cobra look good and NWO look bad. NWO doesn't see Krinks as property and doesn't care if the building is ruined or pinatated. It's still our headquarters even if we don't defend or claim it.
This statement contradicts other statements made by other members of NWO, made in the name of NWO. In the very edit to Krinks we are disputing here, Paynetrain himself stated the group's goals as follows:
They focus on keeping it powered and barricaded when they can. There have also been rumors that many of them have started working on fixing up the power station in hopes of returning power to the city.

With all due respect, this only leaves three logical possibilities:

  1. NWO members have no shared idea themselves about what they want to do with Krinks and what are they doing there. In that case, they should first bring their own house in order and decide on what it is they are doing at Krinks, before bringing up a case about reports on their activities on-site.
  2. CyberOpposition is aware of NWO's goal being to hold Krinks in order to keep it powered and running, and he is also aware of how Cobra's constant slaughtering of his members (not to mention the pinata'ing of his claimed HQ) jeopardized that goal. So, in order to reconcile the harsh reality of the game with his wish to come out as victorious, he makes the claim that the state of his HQ is irrelevant to NWO's success at claiming Krinks as HQ - kinda like covering up your eyes and chanting "You are only a figment of my imagination" helps you to reconcile the harsh reality of a bear chewing your face off with your wish to make it out unharmed.
  3. CyberOpposition is actually right about the idea of the state of Krinks being irrelevant to the goals of NWO. In that case, Paynetrain's edits on Krinks would need to get reverted as being factually wrong, as they make false statements about the goals of NWO with Krinks. Deducing further from that conclusion, CyberOpposition's reversal of the page to version created by Paynetrain should likewise be overturned, as the claims made in those edits do misrepresent NWO's official stance.

Of course, we will also need to evaluate if the average, neutral wiki user would ever recognize Krinks as the HQ of NWO if NWO never inhabits it and doesn't care about it being lit and barricaded. NPOV is created from the point of view of a neutral witness examining the cold, hard facts, not from the point of view of a group stating its warm, fuzzy intentions.

User:CyberOpposition wrote:
I will continue onto Sexualharrison who can't seem to stop initiating harassing comments to members of New World Order. Even after trying to be civil and nice.
As stated by Wig, there is no civility policy at UDWiki, and the last few attempts at it have either been withdrawn by their creator or shot down by the very community, so there is very little that wiki law can do for you to force an user to behave in a certain way towards you and your members.
User:CyberOpposition wrote:
Spider started this whole thing over this. Not that I'm against competition or people wanting to PK us, but it's over edits that were made by Jeb, who's new to the wiki and Urban Dead. I'll actually point out that Jeb joined NWO because RRF wasn't responding on their forum, but after all this crap went down, I haven't heard from him sense. I was going to establish connections with RRF in IRC so Jeb could join them.
Arbitration is about wiki issues, not about in-game actions by groups. This isn't the way to go if what you want is an end of hostilities.

Also, as unfortunate as it may be to you to have a new member going inactive, I do neither see a causal connection between Cobra's actions and this user's disappearance, nor do I see how that is relevant to the case. It is an obvious argumentum ad misericordiam that should be discarded as such.

--Sally A. Summers i Ω i 15:59, 13 September 2013 (BST)

Aichon's First Response

Well then, given the instructions that we are only to respond to the complaints made against us, allow me to conclude my arguments by pointing out that he made no complaints against me at all. Aichon 02:27, 13 September 2013 (BST)

RadicalWhig's First Response

Okay, let me first repeat the complaints levied against me, to see if I fully understand my charges.

1. I "pop out of nowhere" to humiliate and harass him.
2. My The Best of NWO page, hereon referred to as BNWO, should not be protected as a Parody group because it's made for harassment.

Now, assuming I am correct and these are the extent of CyberOpposition's complaints...

For the first charge of harassment, Consider the following: CyberOpposition posting a giant image of a middle finger or Rosslessness's page

Does this not also constitute harassment?

GASNWO.jpg mmmm juicy brains
Aha! Oh-hohoho.

Or this? You will find that the latter template was placed on multiple user's talk pages, without provocation. "Go home. Possibly cry or something too." Does this not also constitute harassment? Are these edits constructive either? If I am in fact guilty of harassment and thus eligible for punishment, so is CyberOpposition/Happy 24.

But for my main defense, there is no wiki policy, such as a civility policy, that prevents me from showing up on a talk page and honestly expressing my opinion of the issues involved (provided I do not do anything straight-up illegal). I believe it is up to the owner of the talk page to decide what is permissible on said talk page. If the aggrevied parties do not wish for me to speak on NWO- or NWO-member-owned talk pages, they may simply delete my edits and/or seek a binding arbitration settlement preventing me from speaking on their talk pages. It's their page(s), and I will neither object nor care. In fact, I may find it amusing. But for any other talk pages, I believe it is outside CyberOpposition's power to restrict my editing privileges there, because it is simply not his property. If non-NWO-affiliated talk page owner wants to be rid of me, it's only up to them to complain, not NWO.

For the second charge regarding BNWO: See the deletion page for most of the arguments as to why BNWO should be kept in mainspace. You will find most of the voters agree with me that BNWO is to be kept. Are you really going to go against the will of a community? Justice has already been done in the form of the vote. There is an extensive precedent for parody groups, as Aichon has objectively and concisely stated on A/D, etc. Again, details on the page.

  • In addition, I noticed that Ayu Milady supported keeping BNWO with the following statement, clearly visible as the ninth vote on A/D.

"Keep It shows how good administration is in this wiki... This page is meant for our group parody and therefore should be keep forever in this wiki. Not a lot of group have this kind of page ... this is truly an honor."

I will let this argument in favor of my page, by a member of NWO no less, speak for itself.

  • Now, I also noticed that CyberOpposition failed to vote for a delete or present any arguments of any sort within the deletion page. Why? Should he not have voiced his complaints then, while it was fresh? Perhaps change a few minds this way, lobby and rally for its ultimate removal from the wiki? Should he not have at least *tried*? By waiting for a full 2 weeks with no comment whatsoever, he let his chance pass. Will you really let him overturn the verdict of the community through arbitration when he clearly and willingly passed up his chance to speak at the most relevant time?
  • On BNWO's talk page: "lmao, oh my god this is funny. Who the fuck spends that long making a page like this? -.- 06:39, 28 August 2013 (BST)"

There you go. CyberOpposition said it was funny. Isn't there a Category:Humour of funny wiki pages that are perfectly okay with everyone? BNWO is very relevant. It's relevant to the game (screenshots), to groups (involves PK and NWO, among others) and to the wiki (quotes ahoy!). And it's funny, as CyberOpposition, an excellent judge of humor, has stated. So, it clearly fits in Category:Humour along with the other, not-disputed pages. Unless you want to tell me which of *those* pages is unconstructive enough to throw out?

  • And finally, I would like to reiterate the wiki's lack of a civility policy in my defense.

Oh, I just noticed a third charge regarding "penguinpyro, Sloganeer", which is on my USERSPACE. Where, I believe, anything pretty much goes.

And that concludes my first statement.

DT's Questions

First, I'd like for all of you to tell me exactly what you want to happen as a result of this Arbitration case.

Now to the case-relevant questions:

Happy, you say that "NWO doesn't see Krinks as property and doesn't care if the building is ruined or pinatated. It's still our headquarters even if we don't defend or claim it", which you also stated here. If it is true that your group has little to no impact upon the state of the building in-game, and doesn't intend or care to interact with the building, then what is the value of editing a community page with claims of ownership?

Cobra, I have no questions for you at this time, beyond that you supply me with all the screenshots your group is so adamant that it has, proving your claims that NWO is not in the area or has been driven from it. Actually, that is a question: Which scenario does Cobra believe is true?

RadicalWhig, you've made (well, it would appear Aichon did, at your suggestion of Parody) the page the Best of NWO into both a Humor Group and a Wiki Group, with the claim that it is a Parody Page. However, having gone through all the groups in both categories and none of them resemble yours - Wiki Groups are centered around a group of people working on the wiki itself (with the exception of one or two miscategorized in-game groups), and contains content created by the members of said group. Comedy Groups are funny ingame groups. 'BNWO' contains almost entirely content generated by a hostile group, is dedicated to belittling other wiki users rather than contributing to the wiki at large, and lists it's members as 'Everyone'. All this being said:
How do you justify keeping The Best of NWO in its Wiki and Humor categories and not in your personal userspace, particularly given it's content?
If the membership is 'Everyone', doesn't this mean that the members of NWO are allowed to edit it as well?
--DTPraise KnowledgePK 19:58, 14 September 2013 (BST)

Happy's Response

I made the loyalty act before cobra came over to smash krinks up. Actually, it was the publicizing of our location around williamsville that brought cobra to us. Looking at krinks past and the bewildering accusations of our past events as a dime-a-dozen I knew any pker group wouldn't be able to resist reliving krinks in all its "glory". I wasn't aware of paynes edit, regardless, My intention with krinks was to make it an empty Trojan horse. Cobra was a faster than I had anticipated and yes, the trap fell through and cobra managed to catch a lead in kills before we could evacuate the lower level members. The official edit for krinks as a official base wasn't supposed to be made or taken as official base on the actual krink s page. The statements on our page were made as propaganda with fine print that would require some extra thought to decipher into a trap. Meaning our "official base" could be used for strategic purposes, disregarding it's actual state. The real feat would have been to drive us out of williamsville and surrounding suburbs. H4ppy 24 7 20:22, 14 September 2013 (BST) Instead, let it be noted that there are no signs of cobra in williamsville and surrounding suburbs, our territory at this moment. H4ppy 24 7 20:52, 14 September 2013 (BST)

Cobra's Response

What we request is the following:

  1. The text of Krinks gets turned into a factual, NPOV text that is in line with the actual facts on-site. Depending on how the case turns out,
  1. either the claim of NWO's ownership needs to get relativated with their lack of presence and the role that Cobra plays,
  2. or the page needs to get reverted to the last version by Generaloberst from 12:55, 14 March 2012, in case that it turns out that NWO plays no role at all over there.

Beginning on August 9, we have begun hunting down NWO. All kills are recorded in our publicly accessible Trophy Lounge beginning here. In order to save you the hassle of compiling the kills, their dates and their locations, here is a list with kills in Williamsville in general and in Krinks in particular being highlighted:

  1. 08/09 - Dartside
  2. 08/09 - Krinks
  3. 08/09 - Krinks
  4. 08/11 - Krinks
  5. 08/12 - Williamsville
  6. 08/12 - Krinks
  7. 08/13 - Williamsville
  8. 08/13 - Spicer Hills
  9. 08/14 - Williamsville
  10. 08/15 - Dartside
  11. 08/16 - Williamsville
  12. 08/16 - Kinch Heights
  13. 08/16 - Dartside
  14. 08/16 - Dartside
  15. 08/21 - Williamsville
  16. 08/21 - Dartside
  17. 08/22 - Kinch Heights
  18. 08/24 - Kinch Heights
  19. 08/23 - Williamsville
  20. 08/27 - Kinch Heights
  21. 08/28 - Tapton
  22. 08/28 - Tapton
  23. 08/30 - Kinch Heights
  24. 09/02 - Krinks
  25. 09/02 - Krinks
  26. 09/08 - Dartside
  27. 09/08 - Kinch Heights

In order to further signify that NWO has no ownership of Krinks, on September 11, Krinks was turned into a pinata by Cobra. No NWO members were present when this went down, so none of the two kills happening during the pinata-ing are listed above.

So far, we count 27 kills between August 9 and September 8.
Further statistical highlights:

  • Less than half of the kills (12 kills) happened inside Williamsville.
  • Of them, in turn, only 6 kills (~22%) happened inside Krinks.
  • The majority of the kills in Williamsville and of the kills in Krinks happened within in the first week of the campaign. Thereafter, kills have become more erratic and moving towards other surburbs. As the number of Cobras combing the area didn't decline, the only logical reason for that must be a reduction of NWO members being found inside Williamsville. Lacking any other catalyst, that must mean that Cobra has driven them further away from their original campaign goal of controlling Williamsville.
  • More than half of the kills happened within the first week. The remaining kills took 3 weeks, further suggesting that NWO has spread out and/or lays low, especially in reaction to the PKing campaign going on against them.

As for our own theory, we suspect that NWO had originally designs to claim control of Williamsville. Evidence for that would be the following:

  1. The Williamsville Loyality Act from August 12, which was formed to build a home, stage our army, ensure growth and provide protection to locals, enemies and our own members. Members that focus on PKing are provided a strategic settlement to hunt threats surrounding Williamsville, while still giving them the freedom to stage attacks outside of the suburb. Later, this was embellished with the statement that Surrounding suburbs have secondary priority to our homeland, Williamsville.
  2. The Stalker Program from August 13, which was designed to combat PKers. As there was no other organized PKer presence focussing on NWO that we know of, we assume that this was a reaction to Cobra losening NWO's grip on the area.
  3. The Dissolution of the Stalker Program from August 20, which falls into the same time frame as kills numbers against NWO were dropping, suggesting they were retreating from the area.
  4. Paynetrain's edit on Krinks from September 2, which claimed that They focus on keeping it powered and barricaded when they can.

Working off the axiom that NWO planned to control Williamsville in the first place, we interpret CyberOpposition's later claim that it had always been planned to be an empty Trojan horse as an attempt to save face and to discredit the achievements of Cobra in disrupting the Williamsville Loyalty Act.

--Sally A. Summers i Ω i 22:44, 14 September 2013 (BST)~

RadicalWhig's Response

You will notice that it says " This page is owned by everyone who hates NWO AKA just everyone." That is what is meant by "everyone". Unless NWO hates themselves, which I don't see ever happening. Furthermore, allowing NWO to edit it would obviously result in an edit war, and a need for further arbitration. I can change it to something else from "Everyone" if you'd like, but why take it so literally?
Humor group: Okay, breaking this up into two parts- the "funny" part and the "ingame" part.
The "ingame" part. Please go to Category: Humour Groups. Included are:

  • Misconbitragnarok
  • Mod Conspiracy
  • Mod Conspiracy Conspiracy

Can you kindly tell me which one of these three has ever had an in-game presence? Hint: None of them. Furthermore, you will notice BNWO includes screenshots. BNWO can be considered to have some in-game presence, considering Spiderzed, in his capacities with Cobra, edited the page with screenshots of his in-game actions, and Spiderzed is both a player who has personally slain NWO and a leader of a group who is at war with NWO. In fact, I have shot and killed NWO shortly after the making of this page, as you should know perfectly well, Arbitrator. And of course, there's the entirety of "NWO in action" which involves Spiderzed's group doing decidedly in-game things. So, we both exceed your criteria for "ingame" and wholly do not need it.
The "funny" part. As stated before in a quote on the BNWO talk page, CyberOpposition was of the opinion, initial opinion at least, that this page was funny. The one being the target is the least likely to think it is funny, and well, he said so himself, "lmao oh my god this is funny", and gave no contraindication on the BNWO talk page. And if you do not find it funny, well, let me remind you that humor is subjective. I doubt "The Arbitrator does not consider this funny" is a legitimate warrant for an impartial judgement.
Now, as for Parody. Again, the line between Parody and not-parody, or whatever it shall be called, is subjective. Let's start with wikipedia: "Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule." Are you familiar with Juvenalian Satire? I don't have to play nice. Mean satire is still satire. And well, parody, you say?
This group contains modified templates matching NWO's colour scheme, their logo, suitably modified, etc. Actual quotes by them, no less, no one will dispute that they actually said those things. I'm using a good deal of their assets, or things similar to their assets, for the purpose of ridicule. Parody indeed.
Now, for the sake of argument, let's say BNWO is an attack page, which it may be justifiably considered. It's still a parody page, but let's just say.
Precedents for attack pages:

Easily much worse (more testing of freedom of expression) yet still somehow allowed on the wiki:

And again, if you're going to object that these were all in-game groups, consider that as mentioned above, BNWO does not need in-game presence to be considered a humour group, and it has some in-game presence anyways. --RWSig1.png RWSig2.pngFoD PK Praise Rando!21:27, 14 September 2013 (BST)

Closing Arguments

Any further arguments, responses, and a conclusion.

And THIS TIME, since all of you except Cobra missed it above, you WILL tell me what it is you all WANT out of the case.

If you don't I will be forced to come up with something on my own. --DTPraise KnowledgePK 23:40, 14 September 2013 (BST)

Happy 24 7

I went ahead and made this public, why not. Also, if you think I would edit a full 26 pages of topic, you take me for someone I'm not. I've lost before, I can handle it. Anyways, feel free to spoon through our public archive, if you happen to find something that contradicts my previous statements like dates of something serious going on then be my guest at bringing it up in your final argument. -.- 07:21, 15 September 2013 (BST)

Oh yeah, I'll leave the decision to DT on what happens. Done all I can do. -.- 07:23, 15 September 2013 (BST)
Third thought, what would we even do with Krinks? Simply stick a flag in it, announce to the whole world that krinks is ours just to sleep there all cosy at night for people to assume we're sitting ducks? Gee. -.- 07:33, 15 September 2013 (BST)
Forth thought, I'd like to request DT think hard about letting us make an edit stating that we set up Krinks as an empty trojan horse, even if we got the majority of casualties and the execution wasn't pulled off very clean by all our members. We did manage to lore them to krinks and had some interest from Fod(can't find where I was talking about it with Vapor, but it's there!) Then, they took off after seeing that their mission for "driving us out of Krinks" was futile because even we didn't want to be in krinks. But! we were there and they were too. -.- 07:41, 15 September 2013 (BST)
Fifth thought. Regarding RadicalWhig, I'd like to state that as long as he isn't instigating flaming, being rude to our members or buggin any of our members who he has bugged in the past, then we forgive him. But, I can't say that about all of NWO members, so he'll need to use caution. Seriously, I don't want to deal with it. -.- 07:44, 15 September 2013 (BST)
Sixth thought? I went ahead and removed a couple things from the wiki as Radical wished. -.- 07:52, 15 September 2013 (BST)
Seventh thought. I realize that now that the Arbitration is almost over, RadicalWhig and Spider think that this was "too far" or "drastic". Well, I think someone had to bring it up and with time, things would have probably gotten worse. Spider even insulted my intelligence after stating that he saw this arbitration, claiming that he felt uncomfortable hitting an unarmed opponent. Later he stated that this was a quickdraw and that this was pulling out the big guns. Well, what do you expect guys? You harass us and try to make us into the "laughing stock of the wiki" (So sorry that didn't happen *sarcasm*) start making harassing and insulting pages about us, insult our intelligence, try and claim krinks as a "win" after trying to repeat a past battle with a nazi serger. You even started to claim and assume I was fascist! What was next? a nazi Cyber Op "Parody Page"? Real clever. Now Radical is nice to us now Cobra members are leaving us alone(on the wiki). We enjoyed the in game conflict with Cobra, not the BS on the wiki that it provided. I think I got what I wanted regarding the behavior towards us. I hope it lasts. Now all that needs to happen is a 3rd party provide his perspective on krinks. Whatever it might be. Even Cobras questioning hasn't tainted my opinion on what happened, I'll be happy to see a Non point of view statement made about what happened at krinks, so everyone can get their credit. -.- 08:12, 15 September 2013 (BST)
Don't forget to mention the in game confusion, oh how they were mislead. Sosososo mislead and confused. But damn it if it the ending was sad for NWO for casualties taken. Oh yeah, it's not our base. Never was our base! We had only claimed it as our base so you would think its our base to be made fools of. You get that straight cobra! You were lured into williamsville, caught in an ambush and you killed us a lot, then ran away claiming you had won by destroying a stupid building. Btw, did we save williamsville? -.- 08:32, 15 September 2013 (BST)


In order to make it truly publicly accessible and to keep it on-wiki for the sake of posterity, I have dumped the print version of the thread linked by CyberOpposition here. I didn't bother to format, except for adding headers to individual posts and replacing embedded images with external links.

What is noteworthy about that thread is that it did only start on August 12, several days after Cobra had begun it's campaign. It does thus not shed any light on NWO's original designs with Williamsville before Cobra began to intervene.

Now, as for CyberOpposition's closing statement, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca:


Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it: That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a valley girl defending a major player-killer group, and I'm talking about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Moderation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense!

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit.

The defense rests.

--Sally A. Summers i Ω i 13:36, 15 September 2013 (BST)


The plaintiff has failed to bring up any sort of compelling rhetoric, research any precedent or provide any sort of quotes or evidence against me, aside from a single link to the page in question and a single link to his forums (which isn't quite public because I must register, probably exposing my IP to boot), largely relying on the Arbitrator to do his homework and critical thinking for him. All I see are reactionary accusations that do not even begin to adequately address my counterarguments, and "here's my forum if you want to look for evidence yourself, whatever". I will let this glaring lack of effective warrant for his arguments speak for itself.

In addition, the plaintiff never specifically disputed the factual accuracy of the BNWO page- it is not harassment because it is true, because every assertion made is all substantially backed by things that actually happened, i.e. evidence. I have even removed several quotes that were in hindsight proven to be unworthy of ridicule. But as, Anja Arnheim stated on Talk:BNWO, “new world order made this page possible”. I am documenting them as the people as they are, and if I am ungentle, even very ungentle, while I am at it, so be it.

My wish, arbitrator, is for BNWO to be preserved in the mainspace. Justice has already been done on A/D. That is all.

Finally, I would like to close things with a few remarks. I believe this wiki has had a long history of insults, disagreements and arguments. Most of it never came down to Arbitration, since a good deal of wiki users are capable of effectively and maturely dealing with unwanted behavior from other wiki users. It is most unfortunate that CyberOpposition was driven to this drastic, drastic course of action, and it is my hope that he does not hold this jest against me in the future.

Oh, one last thing.

"NWO is the only group worth talking about in my eyes(You all shall pay, fuck you and I hate you all) Save the admirability bullshit too, don't care. Don't care about educating Malton either, just enslaving them. N'est-ce-fuk-u (:"

Thank you. Arbitrator, I await your verdict. --RWSig1.png RWSig2.pngFoD PK Praise Rando! 07:38, 15 September 2013 (BST)

The Ruling

These two cases (because really these ought to have been separate cases) have proven to be both mind-numbingly stupid and also pretty interesting in a Wiki-Lawyering sense.

Happy 24 7, your public thread has shown that you did indeed use the Krinks Powerstation as a lure for Cobra, and your comments in that thread and during this case has demonstrated that NWO does not use the Krinks Power Station as its HQ, and only visits it as much as any other location in Williamsville. Furthermore, the edits by yourself and Payne’Train to a community page to not reflect the truth of the situation and are thus not eligible to be included on the page. Similarly, Cobra’s edits are to be struck from the page. Members of both Cobra and NWO are no longer permitted to make edits to the Krinks Powerstation description. If either party wishes to include this little misadventure in the history Krinks, they may use the Current Status section, in an appropriately neutral tone, but I do not suggest it.

RadicalWhig, while vague allusions to a history of keeping Parody groups is all well and fine, you failed to provide any links to any such history. There is healthy precedent that Attack Groups based around the wiki rather than In-game events have been deleted by Community Vote (pay close attention in particular to arguments made by Cyberbob). The BNWO is something of a unique case, as it is primarily dedicated to memorializing and mocking actual quotes from members of the NWO, made on the Wiki. RadicalWhig is right that it is not direct slander or impersonation. Given that there are multiple editors, it is a wiki group. However, the facts still stand that in this case the community has determined that it will keep BNWO. In the presence of two conflicting community decisions, I have to turn to the arguments presented here to determine an outcome, and Happy has provided almost nothing in terms of Policy, Precedent, or Wiki Guidelines, whereas RadicalWhig has at least made some effort in that regard.

BNWO remains in its namespace.

It has been pointed out that there is no civility policy on the wiki. Such a policy was entertained, and promptly lost steam, and thus I cannot order any party to be civil to any other party. I could order a blanket statement such as the one found here, but that doesn’t sit well with me, given current policy. However, I will be ordering that all members of Cobra and NWO cease any communications on each others group or user talk pages beyond instances where their wikijobs (should they have one) require it. This will be in place for 2 months (60 days). In this my hands are tied: The amount of precedent is overwhelming: Look at all this precedent. (There's more but I got bored.)

I would like to thank you all for keeping it clean and mostly civil, and to Aichon for assisting me with research after he was dropped from the case. These are my Rulings, don't violate them or A/VB happens. --DTPraise KnowledgePK 23:18, 15 September 2013 (BST)

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