UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/Stuartbman vs The General

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Stuartbman Vs The General

He's been reverting the McZeds page to it's old state, on the command of Amazing. I'm the leader of McZeds™, I was voted in by the managers, due to Atari Techno being incapacitated. Amazing might have created the group, but I've been with it for over a year now, and I've made significant changes to it in the meantime. I don't see what authority this guy has, going on the orders of an ex-leader, who's banned from the wiki. Can someone work something out? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stuartbman (talkcontribs) at an unknown time.

I'll be arbitrator if you want. - If Jedaz = 00:51, 11 September 2007 (BST) then pi = 2 + 1
Accepted. Just to note: this doesn't really need arbitration. Amazing is the group leader and he did not pass the position on to Stuartbman. Being banned from the wiki makes no difference.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 07:26, 11 September 2007 (BST)
I should save this for my case, but Atari Techno was group leader at the time, and hasn't been seen for over a year (looking at his contributions. I held a vote for power, listed on the McZeds talk page, and left messages on the talk pages of all the managers listed on the wiki. Only 4 responded, but they all voted for me. I took over McZeds as of 16th july. I then contacted Amazing on his other wiki, scroll wars. He wasn't happy about me taking over, and has sent The General to revert the McZeds page back to how it was. I would like my position in McZeds affirmed over The General.--The-Not-So-Late Stuartbman The ThirdMcZeds.png MBE OBE 07:46, 11 September 2007 (BST)
Please save your case (both of you) until asked for it (which will be as soon as an arbitrator has been agreed upon). So if you accept me as arbitrator Stuartbman I'll begin proceedings. - If Jedaz = 07:50, 11 September 2007 (BST) then pi = 2 + 1
Yes, lets proceed.--The-Not-So-Late Stuartbman The ThirdMcZeds.png MBE OBE 23:07, 11 September 2007 (BST)

Alrighty then, this is how we'll proceed. Both of you will write up your cases below under the appropiate headding. After both cases have been writen up you both will be allowed to provide a rebuttal to the others case. Once both the cases and rebuttals have been written up I will consider each side and give my verdict. - If Jedaz = 01:12, 12 September 2007 (BST) then pi = 2 + 1

Stuartbman's case

I joined McZeds nearly a year ago now, and quickly expanded to running most of the Yagoton locations. Next, I became further involved in the wiki, and examined various dates of editing for the leader at the time;Atari Techno. His contributions show that he hasn't done anything for over a year now, including responding to messages on his talk page. I bade my time, but finally my patience snapped. I held a vote on my talk page (so as to stop votes from being changed) and contacted all managers who had wiki names listed on their talk pages, and all managers who had UD profiles via mobile phone. Out of the 17 stores, only 4 responded, but they all unanimously voted for me. This can be viewed as a takeover of an MIA management. I am a major contributor to the McZeds page, including it's new redesign, which can be found in my sandbox (due to reverts).I never simply claimed leadership, it was held through democracy.--The-Not-So-Late Stuartbman The ThirdMcZeds.png MBE OBE 13:32, 12 September 2007 (BST)

The Generals case

As I said, this isn't really an arbitration matter, merely a matter of following the rules and precident. Amazing is the group leader and he did not pass the position on to Stuartbman. Stuartbman edited the page to say he is group leader, thus constituting vandalism or, at the very least, giving me the right to revert it. Banned users can still have property, so amazing being banned from the wiki makes no difference.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 07:26, 12 September 2007 (BST)

Stuartbmans rebuttal

Amazing was group leader. He founded the group, and left it to Atari Techno, who then went MIA. I've contributed to McZeds as well, with several fresh new ideas. Apart from that, I can't get the blessing of a group leader until he actually uses the wiki.--The-Not-So-Late Stuartbman The ThirdMcZeds.png MBE OBE 16:31, 12 September 2007 (BST)

The Generals rebuttal

What he didn't say is that, firstly, the vote was open for only a few days and that, secondly, none of those who voted had the authority to appoint a new leader. Whether or not the "district coordinator" (Note, not CEO) was MIA, that does not and never has waved the group ownership right of the group leader. In other words, it doesn't matter if the whole wiki voted for him, he still cannot take over group leadership without the approval of the group leader. Amazing has firmly stated that he has not passed ownership onto Stuartbman, leaving Amazing the sole owner of the McZeds group page.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 16:30, 12 September 2007 (BST)

The last vote was received on 18th July, the vote starting 29th June. I swore myself in on 18th July as well. Also, nowhere on the McZeds page does it list Amazing as leader. It lists Atari, who is currently incapacitated, but no other.--The-Not-So-Late Stuartbman The ThirdMcZeds.png MBE OBE 17:04, 12 September 2007 (BST)
We've already had our chance for rebuttals. Amazing created the page and is known by everyone to be CEO. Atari was listed as co-founder and district coordinator, not leader.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 18:35, 12 September 2007 (BST)
It's not a rebuttal. It's a cross-examination. Also, Ron Burgundy may be known as the leader of the C4NT, but he is still listed on the wiki page. Atari Techno is the only person in a position of power listed on the wiki page.--The-Not-So-Late Stuartbman The ThirdMcZeds.png MBE OBE 18:47, 12 September 2007 (BST)
It's not the way arbitration works. We both make a statement, then we have rebuttals. We don't then argue about it for ages after the rebuttals. Check the McZeds video game on the page for proof that Amazing was involved.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 19:12, 12 September 2007 (BST)
He was just correcting your seemingly wrong accusation that he only left voting open for a few days. You say: "the vote was open for only a few days" compared to his: "The last vote was received on 18th July, the vote starting 29th June" Thats a big difference and its only fair he gets to point it out! --Honestmistake 21:53, 12 September 2007 (BST)

Not that I want in on this, but Amazing appointed me leader of McZeds (since I am fairly active in UD) pending Atari's return here. Its probably a well-known fact that I know Amazing and Atari in real life, I used to work with Atari. I fact I called Atari and he said he will post a message soon. For the record, I didn't see a message from Stuartbman on Atari's page. It is my intent (and I told Atari and Amazing this) to revert the page to its original state and nominate it for historical groups, therefore heading off any type of controversy like this in the future. --Zod Rhombus 00:39, 13 September 2007 (BST)

Frankly this should probably just be put on the McZeds page as an open vote for all listed (and active) members to vote on. Amazing doesn't play anymore and even if he does can't co-ordinate via the wiki. Atari (?) doesn't seem to be active and Rod seems to be a ringer! While its true that the group was founded by Amazing it is the sum of its parts and "belongs" to those parts... Let them decide! --Honestmistake 01:34, 13 September 2007 (BST)

The decision

After carefuly considering the cases and rebuttles of both sides I have come to the conclusion that McZeds was not Stuartbman's to take over. At no point was there permission, or an offical group process for changing leaders set up by Amazing or Atari Techno. In addition (as shown by the link Zod provided) Amazing clearly expressed his disproval of the take over. The rules are very clear on this matter and are there for a reason.

Stuartbman, if you wish to continue with your revival of McZeds then make a seperate page (Eg, McZeds 2007) and add a disambiguation link to the McZeds page. Any editing to the current McZeds page other then adding a disambiguation link and removing/adding your stores from the "Restaurant Locator" will be met as vandalism. That is all. - If Jedaz = 09:14, 13 September 2007 (BST) then pi = 2 + 1