UDWiki:Administration/Move Requests/Archive/2014 H2

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This page is for the requesting of page moves by normal users. The average user's ability to move pages has been rescinded due to frequent abuse by vandals; as such, users will need to submit requests (similar in nature to those on Speedy Deletions and Protections) for pages to be moved by a sysop.

Guidelines for requesting a Page Move

Copy the template below (Or just type it), replace the text in red with the relevant details, and paste the template under the Move Request Queue heading. A day after a sysop has taken action on the request, move requests should be moved to the Archive.

===[[PAGENAME]]===
*[[MOVE TO HERE]]
*~~~~

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Recent Actions

Save the yeti

Something should probably be done about this, probably merging with Save the Yeti A ZOMBIE ANT 02:32, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Redirect to Zerging ~Vsig.png 03:05, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
That's appropriate. Case closed. A ZOMBIE ANT 04:48, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
On a more serious note, if two pages exist then a disambiguation page is probably in order. Name one Save the Yeti (group) and the other Save the Yeti (Parody) or something appropriate. I don't really like the group page as is. I really would mind seeing it redirected to Zerging but anything that doesn't glorify the "group" would be better than it is now. As is, the list of profiles is the only thing I find appropriate. ~Vsig.png 14:46, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
I really didn't think there was anything in the group page that "glorifies" them.. I thought it was a pretty cut and dry presentation of "This is a zerg group and should be viewed with disdain. --NOCKTRNL 18:45, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
But edit it to whatever you want.. I dont care..one of my alts has been hunting yetis for awhile..(Almost killed 50 of them) and I just figured it was time for a page to spotlight their zerging.. maybe get a group hunt goin'..? Anywhoozle I made some minor edits to the page to make my and the general populaces opinion of these zegers more apparent.--NOCKTRNL 20:47, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
That's not really what I meant by making it less glorified. IMO having anything more than "A zerg group that existed between 2012 to the present" is giving it more credence than it deserves. The profiles might be useful. I'd definitely lose the latest "asspy[sic] basement dweller" crap that you added. Seriously, it ought to just be a one or two line page or a redirect/disambig thing IMO. ~Vsig.png 05:59, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Merge the Save the Yeti and Save the yeti pages, I don't think this is really a case for disambiguous. Keep the Save the Yeti call for killing them, add the member list from the other. Add whatever smack talk, formatting, etc, it doesn't really matter. --K 17:53, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm done editing the page.. Like I said I saw a need and filled it, you guys can do whatever you want to it. Might I recommend putting names with the profile links? --NOCKTRNL 20:26, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't agree merging is the right thing to do. One is clearly a parody (it even has a nice caveat message up top) while the other tries to be informative. I can try cleaning up the informative one and slap a disambig message on the top but the naming structure is what I see as the issue here (capital Y vs lower case y). ~Vsig.png 17:37, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
So, I agree with others that they shouldn't be merged. One (the lowercase "yeti" page) is the official page for an actual in-game group, except that it's been created by a non-member and populated with what I presume is supposed to be an extended NPOV statement that isn't actually very neutral at all, while the other (the uppercase "Yeti" page) is a parody group with a probably-too-similar name. They're distinct entities, and this shouldn't be merged.
Regarding the official page, stuff like the lists of profiles or allegations of zerging (regardless of the fact that we all know them to be true) belong either on the talk page or some other page entirely (which someone is welcome to link from the talk page). Unless the owner of the yeti accounts wants to step forward and claim ownership (anyone? anyone?), the most that should be on the official page is an NPOV statement that is actually neutral, and even that is a stretch (*insert reference to The Dead precedents here*).
The parody page is named something that's uncomfortably close to the official page, but if neither of the pages actual owners (Chi or yeti) want to step forward to complain about the confusion, I see no problem with leaving it alone. Aichon 19:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
I think there's nothing wrong with merging them. One is an informational page explaining that the yetis are zerging, albeit with humour. The other one is the same thing with more information, just not tongue in cheek. They could easily co-exist on the same page and probably should; I find it weird that a zerg group should have 2 wiki pages to be honest. A ZOMBIE ANT 01:11, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm fine with that...IF you can convince Chirurgien to go along with it. The way I see it, the parody page is an owned page for a parody movement, so we have no right to push information onto it without the consent of the page's owner. And I guess the only thing I see as strange about all of this is that the zerg's actual group page was created by a non-member, meaning it probably shouldn't exist at all. Aichon 01:19, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't really mind either way so I don't really want to convince people (let's face it, I'm pretty lazy). Having said that, Chirurgien doesn't own the page- The group does, whether they claim it or not. He has no authority over it as far as I believe and if he wants authority he should have it moved to a neutral page name. A ZOMBIE ANT 10:54, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I sat this discussion out for a few days in the hope it'd resolve itself, so I feel ya. ;) I'm mostly just trying to provide my rationale for why I'm not inclined to merge them as an official sysop action so others have a chance to convince me otherwise.
Backing up for a sec, I think most of the confusion comes from how we're answering these questions: who owns the uppercase page, who owns the lowercase page, who owns the content of each of those pages, and what is allowed on a group page that isn't created by the group? To me, it's obvious that the in-game yeti group owns the lowercase page (even though, as you said, they've never used it), since it matches their group name exactly and is what's linked from the stats page. I think it's also evident that NOCKTRNL's content doesn't belong on their page, since it was never his to edit. And in terms of the uppercase page, depending on how you answer the ownership question, either Chi owns the page and its content, or Chi doesn't own the page, in which case we'd move the content to a page he owns. Either way though, it's still his content.
And that's why I'm not keen on merging the pages, since regardless of anything else, it's still his content. I've contacted him on his talk page and will try to remember to poke him on IRC or in-game if I see him, but the best outcome I see coming from this is that Chi gives the okay to move his page without us having to make an official decision about it. And we can also ask him about merging NOCKTRNL's content into his page, but other than him giving his consent, I wouldn't be comfortable doing so. Aichon 16:02, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
If I claim ownership of the yeti group, can I do whatever I want in the namespace? --K 21:16, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
I was waiting for someone to ask that. In my mind, sure, why not (others may disagree)? So long as you're willing to live with the consequences of claiming officially for the record that you're a zerging, scum-filled cesspool of an individual who deserves to have all of their alts kicked out of any groups they belong to currently and then hunted down and griefed into oblivion until you learn to play fair. I'd prefer to continue thinking more highly of you than that (as well as working alongside you in PKer events), so I hope you won't claim the page. Aichon 22:17, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
If you think I would more likely zerg than lie for funsies, I'm not sure how well you know me. Also, this. --K 23:21, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that at all! What I was pointing out was that unless it's a serious claim, it can't be honored, and if it is a serious claim, serious claims come with serious consequences, oftentimes regardless of whether or not they're actually true. Aichon 02:02, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
As far as I knew it was the uppercase the owned the page. I only checked one profile, the first one on nokternals list, and it was uppercase. At least I thought it was. A ZOMBIE ANT 12:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

If we're going to get technical about page ownership, we should do it right. Now my wikilawyering is a bit rusty, and it's hard to find official canon on ownership guidelines (where the hell is the link to Special Use Page Guidelines) but if memory serves, only User pages and Group pages can be deemed owned content. There are two pages and neither can rightly be called a group page. I'm going to go back to my original suggestion and say that Save the yeti is made into a disambig page. Meanwhile, I suggest the existing page is moved to Save the yeti (unofficial) where the community can edit it. Save the Yeti can either be moved to a different named page or remain where it is (I prefer the former). Both pages listed on the disambig, with a statement along the lines "No official group page yet exists, however the following unofficial community pages have been made:". I do see merit in having two separate pages, but if merging is wanted or needed, it can be handled by users, no other administration action needed and the page ownership concerns will have been addressed. ~Vsig.png 07:05, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

That's more or less correct. To be honest, I think the whole thing's being blown out of proportion. I only suggested a merge for the sake of tidiness, I don't typically want us getting headaches over something that isn't hurting anyone. And the only person that could be hurt by a takeover of Save the Yeti, are the yetis, and until they come forward and ask for rightful ownership of the page I wouldn't trouble myself over working out the 'correct' solution. A ZOMBIE ANT 12:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Meh, works for me (and I agree it's been blown out of proportion, which is largely my fault). It gets the non-member content off of the group page and deals with the ambiguity of the uppercase page, without addressing the issue of/setting a precedent for how we deal with pages that differ in capitalization only, which is something I'd rather not have us tackle.
Also, Both of You for Sysop 2014. Aichon 14:48, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your vote of confidence Aichon, I don't mind the idea of being sysop, but I am enjoying the wiki a lot just as a regular user who pops in every now and again. Besides, I can't really think of any reasons why more ops are needed at the moment other than the crat crisis that happened last election. A ZOMBIE ANT 08:07, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Wow.. something, something... "The bureaucracy would doom us all, if it wasn't for the bureaucracy".. or something like that. --NOCKTRNL 17:20, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to UDWiki Tongue :P. By the way, your signature does not link to your user page, which is a clear violation of the Signature Policy. Please correct it immediately. Failure to do so may result in your editing privileges being revoked. ~Vsig.png 20:00, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Unless the sysops chose to not enforce that rule, which is apparently something they have the option of doing. It is clear what his user name is, which should meet the intent of the policy. Also, I support the disambig on the top of both pages unless someone claims the group. --K 22:14, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
The sysops actually have nothing to do with the signature policy. You're just as capable of enforcing it as anyone else, if you go back and check what it says. ;) Aichon 22:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
How can I create a super cool custom sig like all of you have? Would anybody be willing to share some knowledge with me or must I first fill out the proper forms in triplicate, have them notarized and then sent to VAPOR, Aichon, and Spiderized via registered special courier before anyone is permitted to instruct me? --NOCKTRNL 00:20, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
By I can enforce it, you mean I can ask whoever to not do it or start a vandalism case and ask the sysops to take appropriate action, if they so choose? Ultimately any policy which relies upon banning or warning requires sysops to enact those penalties. I believe we have already determined there is no compulsion for sysops to follow policy, therefore all policies are at the discretion of sysops. Also, Nocktrnl, the easiest way is to find a sig you like, aichon has a nice one for example, find the page it is on (aichon's is here, and also is super complex), steal his code and edit as desired. Other options: Help:Signatures or Help:Templated_Signatures --K 00:44, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I am sorry wikizen, but I cannot comply with your request for assistance with <signature> because you have placed your request on an unauthorized page for <signature assistance>. Administrative pages such as this are for administrative requests only. Please post your request for <signature assistance> outside of the administrative namespace. Thank you for your cooperation. ~Vsig.png 02:19, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough, I guess, if that was what you were getting at. But about sysops not following "policy", the only time that's come up was in relation to a weird situation where some non-policy rules on a particular page said sysops could choose to essentially act as moderators on that page, but I and others felt that our ability to do so flew in the face of all of the actual policies that make it clear sysops are not moderators, so we chose not to exercise that extra authority. But when it comes to our actual duties, a warning is a warning, and the signature policy is, well, policy. The two situations are not alike.
Also, as Kirsty said for the signature stuff. She beat me to the links. Aichon 05:01, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Thankyou all!--<span style="text-shadow:2px 2px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25),-1px 0px 3px rgba(255,255,255,.4),1px 0px 3px rgba(255,255,255,.4),0px -1px 3px rgba(255,255,255,.4),0px 1px 3px rgba(255,255,255,.4);font-family:cochin,times,serif;font-size:14px">—'''[[User:NOCKTR|<sp 19:42, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I was actually referencing the decision not to ban the ban evasion alt of a permabanned user and to allow the user to speak on their behalf during unbanning procedures. A decision I actually agreed with, but not one supported by the policy on ban evasion. I agree with yours and boxy's conversation about policies being mostly unneeded at this point and possibly the wiki better without them over on your talk. Nocktrnl, if you want, I'll make you a signature in your namespace? I have no idea what most of Aichon's coding means, so mine will be far simpler. Hooray for misusing admin pages. --K 21:35, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Ah, gotcha. I thought you were referencing the suggestions debacle from last year or the year before. And my signature isn't that hard to read, is it? The first half of it is basically a set of text shadows/glows so that when it's on different-colored backgrounds it won't completely disappear. Everything other than that is pretty much bog-standard. :P Aichon 23:22, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
z;That would be awesome Kirsty! Thankyou! --NOCKTRNL 00:22, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Resolution

Just so its clear, this page is going to be moved, correct? ~Vsig.png 15:11, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

I am under the impression that Save the yeti becomes a disambig noting the lack of a member created page and linking to the two existing pages, Save the yeti becomes Save the yeti(unofficial) and Save the Yeti becomes Save the Yeti(parody) and specifically no precedent is set regarding case-sensitive naming. --K 15:28, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Yeah that's my understanding, too. Just wasn't sure if that was the final decision here. ~Vsig.png 16:27, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Disambig, I'd prefer capitalisation, but who wants to argue that, really?--Rosslessness 00:39, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Aichon suggested that I weigh-in on this, and I really apologise for failing to do so earlier! I have not in the best of health, and have only been able to access the wiki again now. I'm with Ross for capitalisation, but imo, a disambig might be the best option for this. I would be amenable to a merge if the contents of both pages were both parodies OR both matter-of-fact, but that does not seem to be the case here.
EDIT: Failed to see that a disambiguation page was already placed on Save the yeti. There isn't one on the Save the Yeti page, though. --Si vis pacem, para bellum. (stalk · KT · FoD · UT) 12:57, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

I tried to fix this, but the dark blue bg save the yeti (the title) was above the disambiguous. It may just be an effect of preview or it may take someone smarter to do it. --K 21:48, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
The disambig at the top of Save the yeti page was just a temporary thing and I've just removed it. What I think should be happening here is that Save the yeti should move to Save the yeti (unofficial). Save the yeti is then recreated as a disambig. The disambig notice doesn't actually need to go on either of the two unofficial pages. That's what the disambig page itself is for. My bad if I made this somehow more confusing for people by using the disambig template earlier. ~Vsig.png 02:09, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Or if you would all prefer, I can purge all content in the Save the Yeti page, have it up for deletion, then recreate it. If you'd rather that I keep the original page, I'll try to find a way to put the disambig template ABOVE the blue background. --Si vis pacem, para bellum. (stalk · KT · FoD · UT) 10:19, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

God you guys can be weird. A ZOMBIE ANT 13:58, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea what's going on either. Someone tell me what you want moved where, since it seems like everyone is amenable to everything. Aichon 18:16, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Let's move both pages to new locations, create pages for the unofficial and parody pages, copy over the contents on the newly moved pages to the newly created pages. Delete both original and moved paged. Easy as that. Although it would be best to create the new pages in a location we don't want them so we can also move those. On a more serious note, I think they need moved to (unofficial) and (parody) and Save the yeti gets made disambiguous. I think all of them use the Save the yeti format to avoid any capitalization issues. --K 20:51, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
I will throw my opinion in but besides my light-hearted moping above, I actually don't mind what happens. I'm for simplifying it, the original old Save the Yeti might as well have stayed and simply had the list of contacts placed on its page as part of a merging procedure. Maybe add the documentation from the new page to the talk page or a subpage of the old STY page (if we were so inclined). ANd leave like that until any page disputes from the read STY group arises. A ZOMBIE ANT 01:14, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Fuck it I give up. ~Vsig.png 22:22, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Sorry Vape ;) A ZOMBIE ANT 01:15, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

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