UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/SD Criterion 12 Change

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Intro

Speedy Deletion Criterion 12 was created in order to get rid of the great ammount of group pages that were being created every day and then forgotten forever. Users, especially newbies seeking some stardom in the game, constantly create new groups in order to be the "leaders", but when said project seems to go aground, they abandon it: the result is a lot of group pages with a couple of edits in a lapse of a week and then nothing.

Now, as far as we are in the evolution of Criterion 12, we can analyze the current situation. Did Criterion 12 accomplish its objective? Yes. What's the problem then? The criterion itself covers far more space than the one it was meant for. The only inactive groups unaffected by Criterion 12 are the Historical Groups, that has become some sort of "hall of fame" for dead groups. What does that mean? If the Historic category was (I'm not saying that it was, but "if it was") meant to cover all the groups that didn't deserve to be deleted as they were not a one-day try but real groups with a number of people, it has failed. And it obviously failed, as the connotations of "historical" will compell users to vote for "importance" and not "confirmation of the existence of the group".

This should be adressed, or at least patched somehow. So...

Policy Changes

This policy will change Criterion 12 so it says:

12. Defunct group page: Non-historical or confirmed group pages over two months old that have not had an update in a month and are not on the stats page.

There's already a "confirmed" category on the Wiki that is added to a group when they appear on the stats page, so that will be used. That Category:Confirmed Groups will be changed like this: Every current confirmed group's category tags will be erased from existant groups by Sysops, excluding those that are currently present on the stats page. After that, every confirmed group that remain will be added to a special list, that will be protected from edits of the common users, in a subpage of the category (more precisely Category:Confirmed Groups/Listing), in the same fashion that we keep record of vandal history on A/VD. This will be made in order to prevent users unaware of the rules to add to their groups confirmed tags and go unnoticed as confirmed groups are many and easy to lose record of. The confirmed group's category tag won't be removed anymore, even if the group stops appearing on the stats page. The Category:Confirmed Groups page content will be erased and then changed to reflect the polcy changes according to this and Category talk:Confirmed Groups will be archived and changed in preparation for the coming nominations according to this.

After that start, new groups will have the possibility of being added to the category if they comply with any of the next criterions:

  • Appearance on the stats page.
  • 250 or more edits made on the group's page.
  • Edits made on the group's page by more than 10 different users, not counting vandalism and revertions.

If any (not necessarily all) of these criterion is met, any user can request on Category talk:Confirmed Groups for the confirmed group's category tag to be added on the group's page, in the same fashion that we already do in Category:Historical Groups but there shouldn't be any voting but, instead, confirmation by a Syop that a criterion is being met. Requests should be made brief and to the point, clearly stating which one of the criterions has to be checked. Requests will then be reviewed by a Sysop and if the criterion claimed to be met is really met then a confirmed group's category tag will be added to the group's page and the group's name will be added to the listing; if not the request will be dropped. Any number of requests can be made provided that the group's page isn't deleted at the time, and there's at least a month span from a request to another.

In addition to this, anyone can vote "Keep" on a SD Criterion 12 request stating what of the above criterions is achieved by the listed group(s) and if the criterion is really achieved said group(s) will be added to the category as well, and not moved to the Deletion queue.

Category:Confirmed Groups page changes

These are groups that, indifferently of their level of activity, have confirmed their existence through a wide in game or in wiki participation. They are excluded from Speedy Deletions Criterion 12 for archiving reasons.

To attain confirmed group status:

  1. Group must fulfill at least one of the following criterions:
    1. Appearance on the stats page.
    2. 250 or more edits made on the group's page.
    3. Edits made on the group's page by more than 10 different users, not counting vandalism and revertions.
  2. A nomination should be made on Category talk:Confirmed Groups, clearly stating what Criterion is fulfilled by the group.
  3. A Sysop should review the nomination and confirm that the criterion claimed to be is fulfilled.
  4. Groups that pass will be added to the category as described below, and to Category:Confirmed Groups/Listing.
  5. Groups that fail must allow a month to pass between nominations.

Aditionally, if the target group has been nominated for Speedy Deletion Criterion 12, you're entitled to vote Keep on said request stating what Criterion of the above mentioned is fulfilled by said group, and if it is, the Group will be taken down the SD queue and not derived to the Deletions page.

If your group is still active after it attains Confirmed group status, you're still free to edit the group's page as you see fit according to the other policies, altough you must remember that this Category will only protect your group from Speedy Deletion via Criterion 12, not the other Criterions or vulgar Deletion.

Category talk:Confirmed Groups page changes

Obtaining Confirmed status

To attain confirmed group status:

  1. Group must fulfill at least one of the following criterions:
    1. Appearance on the stats page.
    2. 250 or more edits made on the group's page.
    3. Edits made on the group's page by more than 10 different users, not counting vandalism and revertions.
  2. A nomination should be made on Category talk:Confirmed Groups, clearly stating what Criterion is fulfilled by the group.
  3. A Sysop should review the nomination and confirm that the criterion claimed to be is fulfilled.
  4. Groups that pass will be added to the category as described below, and to Category:Confirmed Groups/Listing.
  5. Groups that fail must allow a month to pass between nominations.

Aditionally, if the target group has been nominated for Speedy Deletion Criterion 12, you're entitled to vote Keep on said request stating what Criterion of the above mentioned is fulfilled by said group, and if it is, the group will be taken down the SD queue and not derived to the Deletions page, in addition to attaining Confirmed group status.

If your group is still active after it attains Confirmed group status, you're still free to edit the group's page as you see fit according to the other policies, altough you must remember that this Category will only protect your group from Speedy Deletion via Criterion 12, not the other Criterions or vulgar Deletion.

Nominations for Confirmed status

Place new nominations at the top. Please be brief and to the point, clearly stating what Criterion does your target group fulfill.

Confirmed Groups Use Discussion

You can place your enquiries and concerns about the category itself and groups belonging to it here.

Resume

The policy basically changes SD criterion 12 rules so confirmed groups can't be deleted anymore, and gives specific guidelines on what is a confirmed group and how should a confirmed group tag be added to a group. This will solve most problems because remembered but not remarkable groups will have their group pages protected from SD, as well as active groups that do not update their pages too frequently.


--Matthew Fahrenheit YRCT+1 18:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, signed, and timestamped. They can take one of two forms:
  • # comments ~~~~
    or
  • # ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above will be struck by a sysop.

The only valid voting sections are For and Against. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

For

  1. I hope that this will save a lot of group pages from oblivion. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRCT+1 18:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
  2. Need more reasons for keeping the history of Malton alive, even if the groups have died. This policy will ensure that groups that never get started can still be speedy deleted, but save any that have a significant history, even if it's in a suburb that few visit, or take notice of. As it is, only large zombie hordes, and trenchy type groups are truly safe from the delete button once their members have moved on to something new -- boxy T L ZS Nuts2U DA 00:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
  3. I'm a big fan of history. - Dr Cornblum X:00 05:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
  4. --Specialist290 00:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
  5. Criterion 12 has always been biased against groups in less-notable locations, even though they may have been the powerhouse there for a long strech of time. We need more reasons to keep Maltonian history with us, instead of throwing it away, and this is a great way to spare it from being deleted. --Nomader TRCDC 00:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Against

  1. Not necessary. The 250 edit count seems too high as well. All in all, way too much work for me.--Gage 19:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
  2. I think that the current guidelines for Criterion 12 and Historical Groups are satisfactory. --ZombieSlay3rSig.png 20:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
  3. Ten people? Wow, that is a lot... and 250 edits? Most groups I've been in leave the wiki page management to one person who knows what they are doing. These rules are too harsh. --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 03:18, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
    Dux, these are only two of the three posibilities. The third is the common "appearance on the stats page". Remember that only ONE of these criterion must be met, so even if I included "proof of elvis' continued life in retirement", anyone could ignore that criterion and reach confirmed status through the others. Anyways, if I get enough votes saying that it's still too hard to achieve Confirmed group status through these Criterions I'll resubmit, but you should have brought that while it was under discussion... --Matthew Fahrenheit YRCT+1 04:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
    Maybe I wasn't here during the discussion. Anyways, I do prefer the current guidelines - they seem to work well enough. --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 00:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
  4. I feel the current guidlines do the job at the moment. Pillsy FT 13:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
    Yeah, they work like clockwork. That's not the problem. The problem is that heaps of groups that are positive additions to the wiki, despite being "defunct", are being deleted simply because they go a month or two without an edit. Crit 12 should be for groups that never did anything at all, even on a local level... groups that never became groups -- boxy T L ZS Nuts2U DA 12:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
    Hmmmm, I see your point now although I'm still inclined to go for no as it would be alot of administration work to check. Pillsy FT 09:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  5. As Gage. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 15:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  6. Same as above.--Kamden 17:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  7. I'm happy with its current workings. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 03:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  8. Good God... Just what we need. More buer... More Buro... More Beau... More Crap to deal with. Conndrakamod TDHPD CFT 05:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  9. Max Grivas JG / M.F.T. 01:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  10. I like it, but the 250 edit requirement is a bit high. Also, this could be easily overcome by groups maintaining a kill counter or a heal counter. For instance, I run a small group page and we are slowly climbing towards the 10 member cut off. However, we are really launching forward by maintaining a service counter. Removing that would be helpful. --Bathe 18:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
  11. Against - I don't see why every group should be required to detail the minutae of their actions. My Group's page is updated infrequently, belongs to a small group that doesn't appear on the stats page, and is primarily a statement of the groups background. As such, there isn't a great deal that needs to be changed once the proof reading's done. The page tends to be looked after by me, so I doubt we'll ever hit two of the critera - 250 edits; 10 or more different editors - and we will likely never hit the stats page because we have no desire too. Yet it is a page for an active group, and is a page that I would be somewhat miffed to see deleted for no good reason. If this is intended to protect pages, then I don't think it goes anywhere near far enough --Turner Calton 14:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
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