UDWiki:Administration/Sysop Archives/Saromu/2006-07-25 Promotion

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This page is an archive of Saromu's Promotions candidacy, which was unsuccessful. If you wish to speak with this candidate, please use their Talk page.

Sonny Corleone

Hi, I'm Sonny. I've been a member of the wiki since around the time it came around. I wasn't active until January. From that time on I worked hard on a lot of things. Families of Malton, fixing location pages, creating a lot of templates, keeping a watchful eye on suburb pages, creating a policy still under discussion, fixing edits from adbots, currently an arbitrator, and a bunch of other things. I have 2,500+ edits and al lthe othe requirements for this. The reason why I want to become a mod is because when I'm on I'm always watching the Recent Changes page to catch vandalism before it explodes into something bigger. So I think I'd be a good moderator because I'm always around to revert vandalism and report it as soon as it happens. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 18:34, 25 July 2006 (BST)

  • Vouch - Sonny's a good guy, and I trust his judgement. He's experienced, fair, and he would make a fine addition to the moderation team. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 18:49, 25 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - This is not a RRF horde vote. I repeat, this is not a RRF horde vote. Move along, nothing to see here. – Nubis NWO 18:49, 25 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - Sonny suffers from the same problem I did — he's done more than he can remember. But trust me on this folks, I remember his efforts to clean this joint up like it was yesterday. He's active, a good contributor, and I'd think he'd make a good moderator too. –Xoid STFU! 18:55, 25 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - Horde, where? --Lucero Talk U! 18:59, 25 July 2006 (BST) Against - It has been mentioned to me that there is no gold to be found in any of my baskets. --Lucero Talk U! 19:01, 25 July 2006 (BST) Vouch - I always trusted in Sonny's superiour intellect and tact. Is that the sound of gold in a basket I hear? --Lucero Talk U! 21:58, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    No gold for you! Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 19:03, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Fine you get the gold in the basket. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 21:05, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Thank you for that meaningful contribution, Lucero. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 19:04, 25 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - Not that I have any problems with him personally, but he shows a level of bias both in the suggestions page and when changing suburb danger reports that (IMHO) can't be allowed for a Moderator. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 19:09, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    The suggestion page has nothing to do with anything. Because I like to spam ideas that make no sense is my business. As for suburb pages. As Papa of the RRF you get 10 PMs a day on various suburbs saying the danger level of suburbs. I relay that information to the wiki. Almost none of them is my opinion. If you have a problem with it bring it up with the ones telling me the info. Or go out and check it yourself. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 19:12, 25 July 2006 (BST) Edit - So yeah, voting against me for my suggestion voting is stupid especially since that page is useless since almost all of them just sit there without being implemented. And voting against for me editing suburb pages for others is also pretty dumb. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 19:19, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    1st You're no Papa here. Now that that is clarified, I'm allowed to vote according to my own judgement of your actions: I think that you went a little bit beyond of "spam ideas that make no sense", and that your changes on every suburb page with your reports (sometimes wrong and always in a hasty, uncareful way) hold little respect for what others think of it. That's all. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 19:27, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Your edit proves much of what I said: total disregard of other people POV. And if you like update the suburb pages with the (often biased) reports of your underlings, tell them to do it for themselves. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 19:27, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    In your humble opinion, Matthew? Don't make me retch. Stating you are against Sonny becoming a moderator because he votes spam on a suggestion... so, what, anyone who doesn't vote the same way you do is unfit to be a moderator? Second: almost every time I've seen a suburb's danger level edited, it has been by someone with no fucking idea of what the requirements are for the various danger levels. It ain't Sonny's fault that those people are unfamiliar with the requirements. Penalising him for that is beyond ludicrious. –Xoid STFU! 19:25, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    It's not as you said: If the only places where i see a guy he shows a highly biased POV, I'm supposed to vouch for him "because of the great awe other people has on him"? I like to have my own POV, "humble opinion" if you want it to be called that way. Everything else I said it already, just read again. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 19:33, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Matthew, look up what IMHO means before you continue to make yourself look like an idiot. –Xoid STFU! 19:39, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Matthew, you're against him because you don't like the way he votes, or his suburb danger reports? You've gotta be kidding me. I'm sorry, I normally respect your opinion, but that's just sad. Moderators are under no obligation to be superhumanly neutral. I'm certainly not. I don't know any moderator who is. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 19:35, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Question...what does my suggestions or danger reports have to do with my ability to delete and protect pages? Am I going to delete the Suggestions Page? Or delete a whole Danger Report page? Please... Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 19:37, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    This is becoming lenghtier than expected... I know what IMHO means, and I think I proved myself to have a very leveled head plenty of times, i.e. by droping the defense of my case when the other guy has enough arguments to crush mine. I still think that, even if it's not (and can't be) applied perfectly, Moderators must at least aim to be neutral and take careful decissions. I don't think that Sonny has an apt judgement for taking care of moderation duties, based on everything that i saw of him, be so either on the suggestions page, the suburbs page, the recently "ban Reptileus" page, numerous talk pages, etc. I don't ask for perfect neutrality but at least a good, unbiased judgement. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 19:53, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Blame The General for Ban Reptileus. He told me to do it. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 19:56, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    At least take responsibility for what you do. It wuold be better for you to said "yeah, that was wrong" instead of what you did: to do what other guy tells you to do without thinking speaks ill of anybody's judgement. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 20:03, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    So The General advised Sonny to create a petition to gauge what people's opinions of the articles were. "Are they stupid, and can they be considered as vandalism?" — Big. Fucking. Whoop. –Xoid STFU! 20:08, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Good thing you weren't here when I first came to the wiki, Matthew. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 20:09, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    <_< >_>... Maybe I was =P --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 20:19, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    No, I mean you would have lynched me when I ran for moderator. I used to be even more of an asshole on here than I am now. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 20:42, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    Actually I knew that already, even before your second bid for moderation. ASS had not these nice templates before, they used to be... more offensive against certain person. Of course in your first bid I wuold have vote Against, but you grew up since then. Maybe I expect the same from Sonny before vouching for him. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 20:48, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    No. You're stuck with me. I change for no man. Maybe a woman. But no man. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 20:50, 25 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - Sonny will be a great value to the wiki moderation team. --Technerd 21:02, 25 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - Sonny is a good guy. He has my vote. Against - His sabatoge of the Suburb Map is inexcusable and is driving some people away from the game. He has stopped several attempts to fix his VANDALISM and then reports the fix attempt as vandalism. DO NOT give this guy your vote. Vouch - I've decided I was being a bit harsh and have decided to go back to my original vote. -- Krazy Monkey W! 22:07, 25 July 2006 (BST)
    My vandalism?! I provided evidence on my side. I provided definitions of suburb reports. The others did nothing on their side. All they did was change the color, not give a reason why, and when confronted with evidence against their case they ignored it. They vandalized. Not me. You sir are ignorant. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 15:30, 1 August 2006 (BST)
    I'm refering to the case of Kiki Lottaboobs on the Vandal Banning page. Using DEM evidence that the majority of suburbs could be downgraded from Very Dangerous she set about doing that, only to be reported for Vandalism by none other than you. I can understand that a high ranking member of the RRF would like to think that zombies controlled most suburbs on the map but that is not the case. You have also reported two other users for messing up your pretty red map and both times they haven't been warned. Get it into your head that the Suburb Map page is not yours to control. It is a community page, therefore people are allowed to make edits to it as long as they are in good faith and not trying to blank the whole page. -- Krazy Monkey W! 08:15, 2 August 2006 (BST)
    And if said edits are inaccurate, other users are not merely permitted but obligated to correct them, which is all that Sonny did. I find it more than a little pathetic that you're so eager to alledge bias on Sonny's part because he heads the RRF (which is the cleanest-playing group in the game), but you uncritically accept the word of the DEM, who are at this very moment being considered for sanctions by the Coalition for Fair Tactics for their cheatin' ways. Grow the fuck up, will you? --Jimbo Bob ASSU! 11:39, 2 August 2006 (BST)
    Take what Jimbo said but make it a little saucier and you have my response. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 14:22, 2 August 2006 (BST)
    The DEM is a completely reliable source. And dont tell me to grow up. The edits are completely accurate however Sonny is determined to replace the Moderate and Danger Tags with Very Dangerous tags. -- Krazy Monkey W! 17:42, 2 August 2006 (BST)
    Reliable source? When I edited said Danger Reports I was not given any evidence when I gave mine. When they finally did give evidence it was specifically chosen to prove only one point but ignore another that would hurt their case. I did nothing wrong. However since I did not want any further conflicts I apologized and agreed to stop. Let it be someone else's headache. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 18:04, 2 August 2006 (BST)
    I was just looking on brainstock and saw your apology. I'd like to apologise for being a bit aggressive in my ealier edit. After re-reading it, it may seem a bit unfair. Sorry if I've offended you. -- Krazy Monkey W! 18:08, 2 August 2006 (BST)
    I accept your apology and it is all fine and dandy except for the fact that the damage is done. Unless Kevan looks and realizes a mad rush of users from one group voting against he'll see it as Against and not allow me to be mod. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 18:12, 2 August 2006 (BST)
    I've gone back to a Vouch vote as my way of apologising. -- Krazy Monkey W! 18:41, 2 August 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - His work on fighting the silly people on the suburb warning pages has been nothing short of wondrous. Definite choice for moderator. Cyberbob  Talk  22:38, 25 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - Lacks that certain something called impartiality, which is a real worry considering the vandal banning page. Swear off the vandal banning page proper, and i will withdraw this vote. --Grim s-Mod U! 01:44, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - Would make a damn fine Moderator.--Canuhearmenow 01:49, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  • Questions Regaurding Candidate -- Opinion pending answers, Karlsbad 01:48, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    1. What Moderator duties do you see yourself focusing on, and how do you think your voice will contribute to these duties?
    2. How do you believe you will deal with conflicts about editing pages and between users?
    3. How do you view the current Moderators and the position they hold?
    4. What responsibilites have you held and how does that inform us of your capabilites as a Moderator?
    1. Anti-vandalism, adbots, deletions, speedy-deletions, etc.
    2. How would I deal with conflicts? I'd talk to the person on their talk page. I've already dealt with enough people on edit conflicts. I'd ask for evidence on their side of the conflict, I'd show mine. I've done it plenty of times to know how it works.
    3. I love the current mods. I love the job their doing and I have no gripes. I actually want to be a mod to help out people like Xoid and Bob. They're on all the time and when they're busy with adbots or constant vandals I'm there reverting the pages for them.
    4. I have been a moderator and admin for several video game and other online game sites and forums. I have held many leadership positions in UrbanDead. Unrelated to UD I'm a Cadet in the NJROTC. Leadership, responsibility, and the works is something I'm trained in. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 01:59, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - probably the most biased and partial user on the whole wiki. Absolutely not. --Gage 02:37, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Gage, do you attack Sonny for everything that he does? –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 02:39, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    I have my own griefing fanclub. I'm just cool that way. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 02:50, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    I have nothing against him, but you have to see his prejudice. I would say the same thing about anyone as brash and impatient as him. I often disagree, but name one time where I 'attacked' him as you say. The whole thing with his joining ASS was a beef with you and Jimbo, not him. Sonny, don't flatter yourself.--Gage 02:51, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    I have two words for you..."Come on." I hope that has changed your mind. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 02:54, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    two words: convince me --Gage 02:57, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Damn. I was sure that was going to work. Convince you...hmm...I think I have a better chance convincing Pat Robertson that there is no god than convincing you to vouch for me. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 03:00, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    okay, you can get my vote if I like your answers to these questions:
    1. A noob such as Labine50 puts up their group as being in Stanbury Village on the suburb page when you know for a fact that they aren't... what do you do?
    2. Do you have a job? If so with what company? What are your job responsibilities? How many hours a week do you work?
    3. Do you think that you can behave in a manner that would be seen as level headed to me? Keep in mind that I don't see you that way now. If 'yes' tell me how.
    4. Promise me in a convincing manner that you plan to do this.
    5. Swear me a solemn statement that you never will abuse your moderator powers. Also swear that you will own up to any fuck up, no matter how small you commit and will accept your punishment.
    6. Promise me that you will shorten your signature. It is too long.
    7. tell me that you will never make anyone made ever again... okay, now I am just yanking your chain.
    --Gage 03:10, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    1. Contact another mod to deal with it since I'm not allowed to make significant edits to the Stanbury Village page. Only spelling errors, format errors, and other NPOV edits.
    2. I don't think where I work is any of your business. But I am unemployed.
    3. Yes. If I had to.
    4. I promise if the situation requires me to be level-headed that I'd do it.
    5. I'm pretty damn sure that if I ever had to go to court or join the Illuminati that they wouldn't ask the kind of crap that you ask. But yeah, if I fuck up I'd take responsibility. But I don't plan on doing anything outrageous. Delete things from Deletions and Speedy Deletions and ban adbots and constant vandals like ImperialRedDragon.
    6. No. I like it long. It makes me unique.
    7. I tried pleasing everyone once. I gave up on it and became a zombie. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 03:19, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    every situation that you are in as a moderator requires you to be level headed. There is no 'if'... the vote stands. --Gage 03:25, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Wow Gage, that line of questioning made me lose just a bit more respect for you. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 03:29, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Not to mention that you're wrong. Go to M/G and learn what moderators are and are not. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 03:30, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Is there a rule for votes being so incorrect that they don't count? Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 04:37, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    In a way; Promotions are not done by the ammount of the Yay/Ney votes but rather what Kevan feels is the community position on the user in question. Gage's opinion shall be given the full depths of which it deserves and nothing more or less. So don't worry; you can't "zerg vote" someone out of promotability. --Karlsbad
    Gee Gage, I guess I'd better be kicked out of my modship position then. Xoid can go as well. Tool. Cyberbob  Talk  08:30, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    You forgot me. :( –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 08:34, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    And me.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 08:46, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Oh. I think of you guys as fairly level headed. Xoid and I are the least "moderate" mods I can think of on the wiki. Cyberbob  Talk  08:48, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    He he, I'ld have to say that I'ld be the most useless mod on the wiki. Anyway Bob, I think you'ld have to take the prize for being the least moderate mod. ;) - Jedaz 09:11, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    But which Bob? Me, or Cyberbob? –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 09:17, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Ohh.... the mystery deepens, lol. I was talking about Cyberbob of course. I'm still having nightmares about that spelling template. - Jedaz 09:21, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Heh. I accept. Jedaz, you are sooo not the most useless mod. Your work on the Suggestions page is exemplary. That prize goes to... Vista. I haven't seen him do anything except complain about others' work. Cyberbob  Talk  09:23, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    lol, yeah I know. Hmm... actualy I haven't seen Vista for a while. It looks like he hasn't been around for about 12 days or so. - Jedaz 09:30, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    He's very busy and doesn't have enough time at the moment, check his talk page.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 09:31, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    You don't think I know that? Even when he's around, he does nothing but bitch. See his talk page (under the heading "A thing") for evidence of my feelings towards his "work". Cyberbob  Talk  09:32, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    I still think I'm plenty biased. :( (Anyone else notice how enormous this page is getting?) –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 09:44, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - Pat Robertson just became an atheist. I have realized that nobody is impartial, some people (such as Hammero) just act like they are. I hope you can do the same now that you have recieved my blessing. --Gage 16:30, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Note - I will watch you like a hawk 0_o--Gage 16:34, 26 July 2006 (BST)
    Arrogance, anyone? Cyberbob  Talk  09:58, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - I have no issues with Sonny becoming a mod. - Jedaz 09:11, 26 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - Is a good editor, but can be quick to overreact. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 00:32, 27 July 2006 (BST) Vouch - Active enough to make a great difference in the moderation stuff that needs to be worked in real time. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 04:56, 27 July 2006 (BST)Strongly Against - Sonny's recent actions at M/VB concerning danger reports have led me to believe that he will not make a good mod, especially if mods ever get the power to report then warn that they've been making noise about. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 01:47, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    I disagree since you have no way of knowing how I am truly acting. Assuming that I am getting excited, thus overreacting, is ignorant on your part for not actually seeking me out and asking me if I was. If you are referring to the Suburb Danger Reports, I get a steady stream of info everyday and my bullshit detector can recognize a bullshit report to get rid of Red. So when I revert it as soon as it goes up shouldn't be looked at as overreacting, since it isn't, but instead me reverting vandalism as quickly as possible. As for my comments on danger reports? That's me just rambling incoherently. I do a lot of that. If I have nothing important to say I'll just ramble, or welcome people to the wiki even though they've been active for months. So to conclude my long paragraph, I do not overreact, I revert vandalism quickly while adding a random unimportant comment. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 03:53, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I understand you, but I believe that you can be a bit quick to flame. There are a bunch of idiots out there, but I'm a fan of politeness online. I know that other mods flame, but just because all the cool kids do it doesn't mean that you should. That's just what I think. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 04:34, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Everyone flames. And me flaming people who lie is wrong but it nothing like flaming a guy for being new. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 04:49, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I don't. But I'm quite the odd duck. But you are like me in that you're on way too much. Which would suit you well for the modly clean up duties. As long as you can manage to keep your cool as a mod and not abuse your power that's great. Consider my vote changed. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 04:56, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    ALL THE COOL PEOPLE FLAME YOU ASSHOLE!!!! ;) –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 05:25, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Actually I'm only for about 2 minutes every 10 minutes or so. That's usually when I'm reading, watching tv, or playing a videogame. But when I'm on I eye the Recent Changes page like a hawk. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 05:28, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I've changed my vote. See above. My first vote was accurate. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 01:47, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    So because I reported cases of people ignoring facts you do not support me? Actually I'm flattered that you don't support me. Anyone that thinks reporting someone for vandalizing despite having proof that they're wrong is not someone I want backing me. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 02:13, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    No, because you were stretching definitions without trying to redefine them and generally being an ass. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 04:53, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    My definitions were correct. The barricades broken in each day but then strafed hours later is Very Dangerous. If they must be strafed then they must have been opened. However, you want to have your little hissy fit because I think your friends are too incompetent to use the wiki, let alone breathe, then fine. If you're trying to hurt me or make me try to win your vote back then you are seriously wrong. I could care less about a person who made a revenge vote. It's immature. If I tried to win you back I'd only prove that I should not be mod. So if you want to get back at me for arguing over a danger report, be my guest. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 04:59, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    Not a revenge vote, but I do see it as evidence that you don't have what I consider the required attitude to be a mod. I don't think my vote will really matter, but I will voice my thoughts. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 06:17, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    thank you for your contribution. I am assured that it will be considered with the depth, maturity and veracity that it contains. --Karlsbad 06:32, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    I meant that in the sense that it seems like Vouches outnumber Againsts, not that the the Wiki Gestapo are after me. --Darth Sensitive Talk W! 01:42, 1 August 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch Sonny should be banned for a year. -That's Why I did your Wife 05:35, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Banned to the land of hot, sexy ladies? Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 05:37, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Only if it would turn out like the ugly duckling, where they are all smoking hot and ostracize you, and then you have a wonderful tronsormation into a beautiful swan and they are all ZOMG we are the put to shame!-That's Why I did your Wife 05:40, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Huh...I had a good response but I forgot it. Something about being straight unlike swans. Forget having a punchline or an actual structure. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 05:42, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - Active prankster and contributor, Great Combination! --Max Grivas JG,T,P! 06:17, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - Seems incapable of being impartial, and I really think the problem with moderator effectiveness is more of a quality issue than a quantity issue. Alan Watson 09:23, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Let me amend that. By "quality" I mean "moderator powers", not "everyone that's a moderator is a crap dude". Let's give the people we have the tools we need before we start slinging more and more people at the problems. Alan Watson 09:33, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Yes. We already discussed being biased. Every mod here is biased. You're biased against biased people. If you weren't you'd give me a chance. But you didn't because you're impartial. A little "pot calling the kettle black" don't you think? Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 18:01, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I wish people actually understood what being a moderator was about. Read M/G. Bias is something that everyone has. Even the moderators. And I agree that we need more power in our roles, but I also think it's always helpful to have an extra mod around. More people to keep things working means less work for each individual mod who's already in place. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 19:30, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Personally, I think that moderation has gone a long ways from what was outlined in the Moderator Guidelines. Moderators have the final word in vandal banning decisions and the only word in misconduct cases; to say that their biases are not important is simply not true. I'm not asking for complete impartiality, since that's humanly impossible, but some recognition that it's at least a desirable trait in moderation would be nice. Saromu here is a very aggressive point man for his group, which is no sin, but there will be a time when it comes into conflict with his role as a moderator, and I'm just not certain at this point that the moderator role will be the pre-eminent one.

    Further, I ask this only out of curiosity, if we can't judge a candidate by their attitudes or biases, how are we to judge them for worthiness? Their sheer amount of time they're willing to put towards the wiki, regardless of its quality? Anyone can check up on Recent Changes and report vandalism to the Vandal Bannings page. Time commitment to the Wiki is important, I admit, but with the current guidelines so lax you need to have a good deal of faith in a potential moderator's judgement in considering, say, what is a bad faith edit and what isn't. And misconduct cases are frequently used as "precedent" for constraining moderator powers now, so we'd also have to trust a moderator to be able to pen fair and farsighted misconduct rulings. Keeping this in mind, I think bias is an important consideration.

    Sorry for being so verbose, but I'm just seeing an increasing disconnect between the reality of being a moderator and what's written about them on the Guidelines page. I don't consider Saromu to be a bad person so much as too mixed up in in-game politics to be an effective mod. However, if he is approved to be a mod he'll have my full support; I'm not looking to cause trouble for him so much as to question where the Guidelines are really reflecting the sort of role and qualities we're looking for in a moderator. Alan Watson 22:28, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    If we followed the guidelines in the way that you suggest we should, Bob Hammero, Xoid and I would NEVER have been allowed to become moderators. Look at us now. Cyberbob  Talk  22:35, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I believe Bob's first bid for moderatorship was withdrawn for reasons similar to the ones I'm putting forward. He cleaned up his act wonderfully in the meantime and is indeed a good moderator now. Saromu may have the potential to be a good moderator in a similar fashion but right now I just don't see it. I don't think I had explored the wiki past my MalTel obligations when you and Xoid made your bids, so I can't rightly comment on that. But saying "he could do a good job, just give him a chance" is asking someone to take a lot on faith. Alan Watson 22:53, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I withdrew my first bid because I hadn't been on the wiki for very long, and I started off by attacking the now-banned notorious user Amazing. My in-game actions never had anything to do with my moderation bid. Please don't try to drag my old laundry out as a reason to vote against Sonny, because it is frankly irrelevant. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 22:57, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I apologize for raking old muck but it was the only recent example I could think of where in-game activity (ASS's PK war against CDF/Amazing) led to undesirable wiki activity (massive flamewar). As far as I can tell, the wiki antagonism was directly related to the wiki flaming, which is the only reason I brought it up. Alan Watson 23:37, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    You raise some interesting points that I would like to address:
    "Saromu here is a very aggressive point man for his group, which is no sin, but there will be a time when it comes into conflict with his role as a moderator, and I'm just not certain at this point that the moderator role will be the pre-eminent one."
    I have seen no evidence of his leadership of the RRF interfering with his wiki responsibilities, and I see no reason why he would in the future. I am the cofounder and co-leader of a somewhat notorious PKer group, Assault on Stupid Survivors. Perhaps you've heard of us? I never let my position in that group interfere with my wiki duties.
    "Further, I ask this only out of curiosity, if we can't judge a candidate by their attitudes or biases, how are we to judge them for worthiness?"
    By their responsibility, trustworthiness, and record of contributions to the wiki.
    "…but with the current guidelines so lax you need to have a good deal of faith in a potential moderator's judgement in considering, say, what is a bad faith edit and what isn't."
    I hate to say this, but you're painfully unaware of the reality of being a moderator on the wiki. At the moment, the guidelines are anything but lax. Moderators have virtually no right to make judgement calls, are restricted to doing only a few things, and with a thousand pieces of red tape to cut through while doing them, and are attacked with misconduct cases at every turn. If anything, we need to be given more power and more authority, not less.
    "I don't consider Saromu to be a bad person so much as too mixed up in in-game politics to be an effective mod."
    Once again, I haven't seen this. Perhaps you can be specific about what you're referring to. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 22:55, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I am primarily referring to the low-level edit war that recently got waged over the Ridleybank suburb page, wherein basically all survivor activity in the suburb has been edited down to be basically portrayed as futile.

    As far as I can see, the problem with mod powers is that people assume if the rules don't very specifically say that a mod can do something, then they can't do it. All the powers and responsibilities are taken at their most minimalist state. I agree that moderators here need more power, but I think more definition to their abilities would help stop all the frivolous misconduct cases, not add to them. Alan Watson 23:37, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    Congratulations to you for thinking it was a wiki war. I was only making things fair. If zombies are not allowed to put their group on the group list for when they attack a suburb then neither should survivors. If I put RRF and Big Bash on Pitneybank I can guarantee you it would be ripped down in a matter of minutes and you would support it. The door swings both ways baby. We can't do it, you can't do it. As for their reports of barricading buildings. It was bullshit since I was going through there everyday checking the cades. Each day we'd knock them all down. None with survivors in it. Next day it would be barricaded up and torn down again. So them saying "We're here" is false since they're there for a whole 5 minutes. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 00:54, 28 July 2006 (BST)
    I wouldn't say I'd immediately discount the RRF or Big Bash putting theirselves up on a suburb group list if they had long term plans for the 'burb. I was there for their raid on Dulston, and both Caiger Mall sieges. If you guys were planning on sticking around for, say, a month, I'd say that would be a pretty good reason to put your group up on the suburb. Also, I'd say constant barricade strafing would merit a mention in the suburb group page, since they're having a real impact on the suburb itself, even if it's just keeping you guys distracted. If the RRF went into a suburb, tore down all the barricades and ransacked all the buildings, withdrew, and kept on coming back from a neighboring suburb, wouldn't it be fair to note their continued involvement with the suburb's affairs, even if no member of the RRF was actually in the suburb for more than a few minutes? Alan Watson 01:46, 28 July 2006 (BST)
    I would however. Since we are not in the suburb for more than a few minutes we would not be part of it. I could also put the RRF on a ton of suburbs since we have strike teams in suburbs at months for a time. Reason why we don't do it? Because we are not claiming it as ours. We're only there to attack, not to stay. And they claimed to be in Ridleybank when they weren't. They could say "We're barricade strafing." but instead they chose to lie saying they were staying there. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 01:53, 28 July 2006 (BST)
    Alan, the only time moderators actually have to be impartial is in ruling on Misconduct cases, and Arbitration cases (if they're an arbitrtor; not every mod is). Cyberbob  Talk  22:24, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    I shouldn't become a moderator because I'm an active participant in a game that this wiki is for...Ok. Make perfect sense to me. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 22:48, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    You misunderstand me. It's not the "active participant" part so much as you bring your commitments from that participation and let that reflect heavily on your wiki participation. People are perfectly able to play the game and then come to the wiki and not hold it against their in-game opponents. Alan Watson 22:57, 27 July 2006 (BST)
    The only time I speak to me enemies would be in Suburb Danger reports and on talk pages. Talk pages are unrelated to this. Danger Reports, like I said so many times, are given to me every day. I know when someone creates a bullshit report. You should be happy that you can have someone on the wiki that can detect bullshit. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS CoL 23:04, 27 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - He's a good guy. Also, this page has become fucking insane. Most of this stuff should be moved to the talk page, ala Suggestions. --Jimbo Bob ASSU! 05:47, 30 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - Nothing personal, I just think you've been involved in a bit too much drama and you're not quite as impartial as I would like. Give it a month or so and i'd vouch for you.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 08:57, 30 July 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - now gimme my 10 bucks. --hagnat mod 23:33, 30 July 2006 (BST)
    Dude, the deal was 5. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 23:35, 30 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - Recent danger-level arguments show that he's hot-headed and often caught not reading. Anyone who vandal-reports opponents and cries off instead of arguing for reasonable compromise would make a bad mod. --Censustaker 06:27, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    Do you wish to cite said "caught not readings" or are we to geuss what you mean as much as we are to guess your identity? --Karlsbad 09:33, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    I did try to reach a compromise. I even gave evidence to my side. Kiki and Catcher in the Rye decided to ignore said evidence. So it is my fault for them not stopping and reading? I then realized how stupid this all was so I gave up. But that isn't good enough for you? Like I said before. Revenge vote. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 14:57, 31 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - Tried to start a petition to ban another user[1] because he didn't like what the guy had been writing. That's ridiculously belligerent and if you actually look at his edits, you'll see that a good number of them are made in anger. This isn't the sort of guy who should have any more power. --Ron Burgundy 09:24, 31 July 2006 (BST) Abstain - Sonny seems to have had some problems in the real world and, unfortunately, those problems influenced his patience on the wiki. I can't blame him for that because he's a human, first and foremost. I also can't support him because I don't know anything beyond a heavily stressed Sonny. On that note, I'll have to abstain from voting with the final caveat that if I were him, I'd consider withdrawing my bid to give myself and the community some time to level things out. --Ron Burgundy 07:57, 6 August 2006 (BST)
    The General asked him to do that, and Sonny later asked to have it deleted. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 09:28, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    It looks to me like Sonny brought it up by asking "Can he get banned for making such worthless shit?" People said "no," so Sonny tried to find something else: "He did vandalize Xyu page two months ago that went unreported until now. He's also making worthless pages when told to stop." Actively trying to find ban-worthy material is too much like a witch hunt to be in good faith. When The General said he'd do it with a petition, Sonny went and made one- or at least presented it. Between the two of them, I think it's Sonny who was being proactive about it. --Ron Burgundy 09:38, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    I was trying a way to get the person to stop. As you know we do have people on the wiki that like to make things up. He was doing that. It's like going to the Caiger Mall page and posting "Caiger Mall has fallen by a force of 2 zombies". That will obviously be reported as vandalism. This guy was doing the same thing but on his own page. When reported for vandalism nothing happened because he continued. I then looked at his contributions to see if he created any more false pages and I noticed his Xyu edit. Xyu isn't here anymore to defend himself so he wasn't able to report it. I do think that make the petition was stupid but The General told me to do it and I sadfully did it. I did not bring him to Misconduct because I admit that I shouldn't have done it in the first place. but like I said I listened. But I stand firm that Reptileus is a vandal and needed to be stopped. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 14:57, 31 July 2006 (BST)
  • Against - I'm generally opposed to the notion of making any group leader a moderator under most any circumstances. I think the last thing this wiki needs is another bout of protracted, pointless drama and to make Sonny a mod seems to be asking for it. Nothing personal, Sonny - even you've got to admit that this will cause a stir. In addition, while I know it's not in the technical definition of a mod to be especially polite, actively helpful, impartial or even friendly, I would personally want to see a track record of such behavior (as opposed to what I've seen so far) before I would willingly endorse any candidate. --Major Grippy 23:40, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    So you want Bob to resign? He's leader of his own group. And I already said I'm done with all the controversial things. From now on I'm done with the suburb page. It's beyond repair. So what is left for me to edit? I'll continue updating group pages, suggestions, and other things. But anything that involves suburbs? No. That cuts back everything controversial. And Major Grippy, I'd be a lot nicer to people if they actually talked to me instead of ignoring me, creating edit wars, etc. Not once has someone took the time to discuss it. Since they do not show me the courtesy to work it out I believe that I should show them the same courtesy. They beat around the bush but I'm blunt and to the point. As a moderator I cannot promise to be Ghandi but I can promise that these situations would be avoided since I would be required to contact them abotu issues. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 00:21, 1 August 2006 (BST)
    I'm not demanding Bob's resignation (or anyone's, for that matter), but you've got to see that a mod with high-profile ties to a group is going to be a lightning rod for accusations of favoritism or bias in his judgements whenever issues involving his group come up - with a group as high-profile as yours, such a situation seems almost inevitable. Regarding edit wars and bluntness, I can understand your inclination to fight fire with fire, but I feel that the role of a moderator (or in my own case, a group leader) should not be to stoop to the level of those causing the problem, rather it should be to set a positive example for all others viewing the incident. Perhaps I have not seen a representative sampling of your dealings with others in the meta, as I usually only take notice of those that become crises, but I'd really have to see more where your dialogue with a user had an amicable resolution (and that what I've seen to date had been the exception, not the norm) before I could endorse your modship. --Major Grippy 11:09, 1 August 2006 (BST)
    Er. I'm a (well, I'd like to think I am) high profile member of the CDF, and you know just how much many people hate us. I've never had any problems. I don't think Sonny would, either. Cyberbob  Talk  11:13, 1 August 2006 (BST)
    Speak to Ron Burgundy. Him and I had a nice little chat last night. It was one of those conversations I spoke about where people actually get to know me without make assumptions because when people do that it brings out the worst in me. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 15:30, 1 August 2006 (BST)
    Yeah, it was interesting and, honestly, made me rethink my vote- but I've just got to wonder, why the discrepancy between that and the wiki? I mean, with the exception of Wes Mantooth, we're all friends here! God, am I so naive? --Ron Burgundy 08:37, 4 August 2006 (BST)
    I continue to withold my vote however I do need to comment here. I am among the DHPD leadership and even more importantly I am often the "Face of the DHPD." I would hope that my reputation as one of the more Moderate Mods. Yes I understand your concerns about a leader being a lightening rod, but I haven't had any problems. Conndrakamod TCFT 10:39, 6 August 2006 (BST)
  • Against - This lachrymose would-be leader if wildly incompetent. I cast against him.--N dG 19:02, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    You spelt "is" wrong. As a speller you are incompetent. Like being called that too? Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 00:21, 1 August 2006 (BST)
    I don't mind. It's not like I am running as a wiki mod. By the way, is this how you will deal with insults/spelling mistakes? By making witty remarks as such? --N dG 19:47, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    You chose to start it. If you want a calm person, you act calm. You want a nice person, you act nice. I have never heard of you nor spoken to you ever. Instead of getting to know me or dealing with me as a peer you decided to first speak to me by criticizing how I deal with those that do not seek information first. You are the reason why I act rude to some. If I am mod I would speak the same way to you because you have created the image of one that does not care to seek info out. For that you are ignorant. Shoot first and ask questions later, as some would say. You want me not to act this way to you? Show me that you aren't ignorant. You don't care? I don't care. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 01:00, 1 August 2006 (BST)
    I was just stating my opinion. I guess I thought I was allowed that much. --N dG 20:08, 31 July 2006 (BST)
    You are. But I do not like that it is a very ignorant opinion. Maybe that's just my opinion. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 01:13, 1 August 2006 (BST)
    No, he's definitely an idiot. --Jimbo Bob ASSU! 04:45, 1 August 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - I know that I may not agree with all of his ideas, but he will at least provide a fair and well-defined arguement for his case. --ERNesbitt 16:34, 3 August 2006 (BST)
  • Against Besides my interactions with him here and on forums, I have had a few hour+ long debates on IM with Sonny (while he was primarily Saromu). While I believe he generally means well, he frequently has a very hard time seeing things from other peoples points of view. And when he feels slighted he can get get very stubborn and antagonistic. While I think the vast majority of his contributions to the wiki and the game have been very valuable, I don't think he has quite the temperament to be an effective, reasonably impartial moderator. --Gilant talk|DEM 18:35, 3 August 2006 (BST)
    Please sign onto AIM so that I can respond to it since it is something personal and not for everyone else to hear. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 18:41, 3 August 2006 (BST)
  • Against - For 1 he is not at all impartial enough to be even considered to be a moderator, and 2 just based on his reactions and responses on this page I can tell he is veyr tempermental and hot-headed which could be a danger if he becomes a moderator. Nachoos 21:15, 3 August 2006 (BST)
    Because I make snide remarks does not make me hot-headed. I am very much calm and collected. Because I choose to fight fire with fire does not make me hot-headed. However none of this applies to the job I would do. Delete pages from Deletions and Speedy-Deletions? Give out warnings as per Vandal Banning cases? That doesn't take an impartial person to do it. Anyone with the time can do it. If a guy vandalized a page saying "LOLZ ADS FTW!!!1ONE" I'm pretty sure it doesn't take an impartial person to go and ban him. If a guy creates a duplicate page and didn't notice it I'm pretty sure it doesn't take an impartial person to put it up for Speedy-Deletion and then delete it. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 21:29, 3 August 2006 (BST)
  • Against - In my opinion, he doesn't behave correctly with people that disagree with him. I think that he wont be a good moderator. --Tico 02:51, 6 August 2006 (BST)
    There's a difference between disagree and ignore. When people disagree with me it's cool. But when they ignore what I say...that pisses me off. Ron Burgundy and I disagree but we don't hate each other. He doesn't ignore me like others do. If I tell him something he reads it. But then again, why am I bothering? You're not going to read this anyway and just prove the fact you are ignoring what others say. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 04:05, 6 August 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch -Sonny has always been a good and honorable man from what I have seen and he showed no bias when he was my arbitrator in Labine50vsLCpl Mendoza.Therefore i am vouching for him may he do the UDWiki good.--LCpl Mendoza 21:50, 7 August 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - While it might seem Sonny has a bias, you must remember that he's mearly fighting his side of the arguement. On the Wiki Maps, he was given evidence by other people about the Suburbs which he interpreted to be true. He's said time and time again that if someone gave evidence contradictory to what he's gotten, he'd refrain. Usually doesn't happen to my knowledge. In a position of Moderator, I'm sure Sonny will tone down a bit in order to keep others (And himself) in check. -- BeefSteak WTF 21:55, 7 August 2006 (BST)

Current Tally: For- 14 Against- 11 Abstain- 1 Conndrakamod TCFT 10:25, 6 August 2006 (BST)

Current Tally: For- 17 Against- 11 Abstain- 1 Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 21:57, 7 August 2006 (BST)

  • Against - I see Sonny getting very angry very quickly very often and from what I have seen his rhetoric is consistently antagonistic. I don't have a personal grudge with Sonny, but I don't think he's ready for the next step. He and I have disagreed frequently, but I do see good qualities in Sonny; however, those qualities are often obscured by his anger, impatience and over-sensitivity to insult (which results in escalation rather than diffusion). Maybe in the future I'd vote differently, but for now I am against this promotion. --Kiki Lottaboobs 10:41, 8 August 2006 (BST)
    Kiki, there is no way in hell I would ever want you on my side so thank you for voting against me. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 15:46, 8 August 2006 (BST)
  • Against - For all the previously stated reasons. Simply put, he is too opinionated and confrontational, IMO. --Raystanwick 12:52, 8 August 2006 (BST)
    So is Bob and Xoid but I don't see you complaining about them. DEM, they kick you when you're down. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 15:46, 8 August 2006 (BST)
  • Against - See Sonny's replies in his own petition here. Sonny, I have no idea who you are or how much you do for this Wiki. I was pretty sure I wouldn't vote in any of these things until I got a feel for everyone running... but then I read the voting. I have nothing against you of course, so you could just as easily have my Vouch next time around. -- (GOD) 18:29, 8 August 2006 (BST)
    I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to vote without knowing who you're voting for. I'm the guy that helps the mods with vandalism. I'm the guy that keeps things up to date. I do a hell of a lot for the wiki and it really hurts me to see people vote against because I think one member of their group has the intelligence of a retarded lobotomized monkey. Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 19:17, 8 August 2006 (BST)
    Correction, you're the guy who cannot speak like an adult. You're the guy who seems to harbor much hatred and resentment that can and will obscure good judgement. You're the guy who inflames debates without fail. So decrees your Lord. You will have the Lord's vouch should you change your sinful ways. -- (GOD) 01:30, 11 August 2006 (BST)
  • Vouch - Good contributor and an all round good guy. --Empress of Moldovi 19:32, 8 August 2006 (BST)

Current Tally: For- 18 Against- 14 Abstain- 1 Sonny Corleone WTF RRF ASS 19:35, 8 August 2006 (BST)

Final Tally: Vouch- 17 Against- 14 Abstain-1 --Matthew Fahrenheit YRC | T | W! 20:08, 8 August 2006 (BST)

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