UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration/Jack's Cold Sweat vs TZH

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Jack's Cold Sweat vs. TZH

I'm not married to anyone person as an arbitrator. So any and all are welcome to me. If only one must be selected, why not Nalikill since he was first, and it was his suggestion at any rate? I think it's rather simple to make a case for TZH being what they are, should I go back and troll through the Rogue's gallery threads. Just today, they've pk'd 3 times for the edits to the North and South Blythville pages putting them in the hostile groups catagory. As can be seen [1] [2] and [3]. We never contacted the Creedy Guerilla Raiders. That probably refers back to the time when TZH was going ape-shit on brainstock when we posted some 20 of their pk's of there. Amusingly, TZH began baiting the various PK and bounty hunter groups that frequent the brainstock forums. If I remember correctly, they're also the ones who brought the Philosophy Knights to the Blythvilles. The fact is they're mad as hatters, love to pk survivors with little or no provokation, and my sense of wiki neutrality was offended by the insinuation that they were pro-survivor when they are so clearly a goofy pk cult. Their chief beef with myself is that they believe any random person who pk's them particularly someone named Kirro's Wee Penis, and DirtyGirl are me or someone I know. That is in essence the whole of their evidence, the fact that I was idled out in a Pippard for well over a month, notwithstanding. I'm just Jack, I can't address the underlying issues of their delusions. So, when I see the errant entry, I can fix that little hiccup. Through arbitration, perhaps it can be addressed with some finality.--Jack's Cold Sweat 05:06, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Jack cannot substantiate that we kill any random survivors, I know this because we don't. At the same time he refuses what substantiation I have offered concerning the status of the Malton Skeet Club as a "griefer" group because of their actions against the BRRC, as testified towards, by Jack himself on the BRRC website. I will also let you know that you have remembered incorrectly Jack. We had nothing to do with the "Philosophe Knights", in fact before the this statement I hadn't really heard of them. We don't associate with PKer groups until they attack us, at which time our "association" involves hunting them down. As for the CGR, you might want to look at the Creedy Guerilla Raiders website and wiki, they claim that they indeed came to your defense, and I wouldn't be suprised to see an MSC on their history register or forums asking for help. Nothing is lost on the wiki. --Dhavid Grohl 17:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Screenshot of TZH pk'ing an innocent survivor [1] and again [2] TZH persecution of The Happy Shopper [3] no idea who this guy getting killed by the TZH is [4].--Jack's Cold Sweat 21:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
To be honest, I really don't think there is a case here...its really a matter of someone getting a little worked up over a game...which in reality is exactly what UD is. -- Cheeseman W!RandomTalk 23:33, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Mmm? What do you need help with particularly? --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:42, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
When they decide on an arbitrator, they're probably going to have to upload screenshots as evidence, they might need help with that, and they're going to need help with the rules of the wiki, to make their arguments correct and in line with what the guidelines say.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  23:47, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't really know what is involved in a case, or what is going to be done. Here is a link to some of the Brainstock discussions: Main PKer Discussion page, our forum is locked and here: Recent Open Appeal, also locked, some discussion here about MSC and: BRRC Page, listed info about MSC griefing. And here: first post where we declare intent against MSC and JUST MSC What these links show is that there is only one/two group(s) in TZH territory that is actively being hunted by TZH members. One is the The Late Night TV Crue, an unrepentant PKer organization that initiated conflict, and then the Malton Skeet Club. A hostile group is one that is anti-survivor, PK's rampantly and without regard for affilliation, or contracts itself out as a hist squad for other groups (much like the Creedy Guerilla Raiders whom the MSC contracted to kill us. Information to support that last claim can be found on CGR's wiki page. As TZH fits none of the above they are not a hostile group, and changing our Group status on an OBJECTIVE page (suburb page) is wrong for a non-member of the group to do. --Dhavid Grohl 00:04, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Let's wait and see what the arbiter has to say when one is chosen. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:00, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's what I think you both need in terms of evidence: If you, Jack, can provide a screenshot where they PK'ed someone not a member of MCS, and whom TZH hadn't announced as having committed some crime, that would be ponderous evidence. Likewise, if TZH can provide the screenshot of the original offense MSC, or one of the first ones that MSC committed against TZH, and can provide information on all the members they've disciplined for PK'ing when it was innapropriate, then that would be ponderous evidence.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  00:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Nalikill, the original nature of the conflict between MSC and TZH was not one of PKing (although we took it too that level when MSC began zerging). There is a well known TZH imposter:Kiiro's Wee Penis , in whose profile there is racism against a TZH member, as well as generalized posing as a group and falsely claiming to be a TZH member. This character was created at the same time that the MSC conflict was heating up. The list of characters in the MSC that have been targeted include: Jack's Cold Sweat, chimara7, Life's A Bitch. I don't think that MSC member "Ned001" has ever been targeted, because the guy never ran his mouth off or, we believe, griefed TZH specifically, although he has recently been made a target as TZH is going to ramp its strikes against the MSC, in an effort to put the BRRC back in their home. --Dhavid Grohl 00:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I should also mention that TZH is also actively pursuing a conflict with a user named "Falcon Talon", for which we posted the following appeal proving Falcon Talon's declaration of War against TZH (we accepted) and as such this conflict would not classify us as a "Hostile Group". Brainstock Post is about midway down the page --Dhavid Grohl 00:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Okay. My mistake. But you get the picture. Any evidence you have that clears your name, you might want to upload to the wiki, and get ready to link to when an arbitrator is chosen.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  00:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
There really is no case here. Practically, this is more of an in-game thing. Not really much of a wiki thing. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 00:21, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I belive the problem lies with which catorgory the TZH are under, on the suburb pages. from what i can see, one side wants them under the "Hostile Groups" while the TZH maintain they belong under the "Pro-Survivor Groups". since it became an edit war, as seen here, It is ,barely, a wiki "problem".--'BPTmz 00:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Well...Have you ever thought that some PKers are impersonating the group to make them look bad? Like what I sometimes do to the RAF? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 00:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I dont belive that is an issue here, as both sides have pretty much said they're both "at war". one side took the fighting to the wiki.--'BPTmz 00:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Blood Panther. This is a wiki issue. No one has the right to change a group's status other than a representative from said group. Duke Cage and I are the reps for TZH, and we claim that we are a "Pro Survivor Group". Our alliances with both Olney Militia, and the SWA are clear evidence of this. We even fight unrepentant PKer groups like Late Night TV Crue, who themselves follow the "honor among thieves policy" and wouldn't be attacking us unless we were innocent. And yes, Axe, we have had problems with impersonators in the past --Dhavid Grohl 00:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
So...what I'm seeing here is the person bringing the case took the "war" to the wiki. That's it? That's hardly even a case! The "war" is mostly in-game! --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 00:42, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
i never said it was a strong case.--'BPTmz 00:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
One issue is that the MSC publicly denied this war (on Brainstock anyway) so that they could continue to collect bounties against us. However at the same time they were creating impersonating alts, griefing, showing racist remarks, GKing, and using their members in zombie form and human form to attack our members (while not killing them to avoid proof of war). At first, RG mods ignored us stating that without a declaration from MSC, despite overwhelming evidence that they were at war, they would not label it as such. The RG staff have been much more reasonably lately, hence the second appeal. --Dhavid Grohl 00:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
This is pretty dumb. The one bringing the case started this wiki war. 10 money trees says he'll lose this case for sure. I offer my hand as arbitrator....although I seem to know some of the facts already... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 00:53, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't continue to make a case until you have agreed on an arbiter, and that arbiter asks for it. This arbitration proceeding will only have the power to decide how this wiki is edited, specifically what section TZH is placed under on Suburb pages, and perhaps what categories are included on their group page. And you're going to need some pretty clear evidence to change it from their self defined categorisations -- boxy talk • i 00:57 17 January 2008 (BST)

I would like to then also offer to accept Axe Hack as moderator, and list him as my preferred, seeing as how he at least understands the case from my perspective. Nalikill and Kerek are also still acceptable (no offense guys, but when you alread have the support of another arbitrator...).--Dhavid Grohl 01:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
The correct term is Arbitrator. But I have a feeling Jack won't accept me. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 01:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


I wasn't going to because it's not really something I think needs my input but, I will also offer to arbitrate, so if Jack's accepts I can arbitrate.--Karekmaps?! 01:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

What is the case? Can someone summarise this mess into one or two sentances? I can't see anything here other than some shit-slinging transferring from the game to the wiki. I feel that A/VB is perhaps a better place if bad-faith edits are being made. --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 01:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The guy believes that TZH should be in the hostile groups section on suburb pages because they are PKers. If he can prove that they regularly PK other survivors without reason, then they should be placed there. If it's just a war between groups... maybe not -- boxy talk • i 01:34 17 January 2008 (BST)
Shouldn't groups that include bounty-hunters be classified as 'hostile' such as the DHPD, since they are nothing more than glorified PKers? It could go both ways. This is more of an issue of classification, methinks. --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 01:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry but this all seems very in-game to me. I might as well start spouting off how Grohl is a greedy tool of industry who won't agree to sit down with the Hollywood Writer's Union. That and how Papa Nixon really wants Alexander Karelin to be the leader of TZH. Then he could post a picture of me with pubes on my nose. But see, that would all be the GAME and has no business here, just like this bit. This is an issue in dire need of a Whaaaaaaaambulance to come and take it away.--Sarah Silverman 21:33, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm reading through all this, but I do not see the part where both parties agreed on who's the arbitrator. So why is Nalikill arbitrating if both parties hadn't agreed on one yet? If I'm wrong, please correct me. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 21:57, 17 January 2008 (UTC) There it is...My bad. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 21:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


THIS CASE IS MOVING FORWARD?!?!? Wow, now I've seen it all. This is the best line so far - in response to Nali's request for more information about a certain PK they are showing: I believe [Insancipitory] said something about how it's fruitless to PK (he was big on river tactics) so they PK'd him repeatedly. He hasn't played in quite sometime, maybe a year or more. A YEAR?!? They're linking screen shots that are more than a YEAR old? This is rich! Go guys go!! There should be warnings passed around to TZH, MSC and Nali for visiting this upon the rest of us.--Sarah Silverman 22:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

What is this? Either make this arbritration case about the wiki, or I'm moving it from arbritration, maybe to a page called "In Game arbritration". Nalikill you should know better. Arbritration is for edit disputes/other wiki matters. Anything occuring ingame/on forums is completely irrelevant.--Thekooks 16:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Move it, and it's vandalism. It's about the WIKI STATUS of TZH. They're citing in game evidence for this wiki status, as that's the only way to prove or disprove their status. I will render a ruling shortly; just as soon as Grohl has had a chance to respond to MSC's latest accusations.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  17:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Kooks has a point. This is an in-game issue that unfortunately has spread to the Wiki. It shouldn't be anywhere near Arbitration. -- Cheeseman W!RandomTalk 22:20, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


Nali, you may, quite possibly, be the worst arbitrator I've ever seen and I've been through the whole archive at least 4 times. This looks more like conspiring than arbitration.--Karekmaps?! 21:21, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

If you have a problem... take it to arbitration.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  21:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Wow, snappy. I'll be sure to encourage the party you screw over with your ruling to appeal the case in arbitration as gross misconduct and negligence on your part. --Karekmaps?! 21:50, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Recall what "assume" spells, as you exemplify at least the first half in your post.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  22:04, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
This is a farce. This isnt arbitration on that there page. Its supposed to be that each side presents their arguement, the other gets a chance at rebuttal and then arbitrator reaches decision. What the hell is with each side commenting on each others evidence before its all sorted out? -- Cheeseman W!RandomTalk 22:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Nali doesn't have any idea of how to arbitrate properly. It's quite simple. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 11:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
On his user page, he says he's taking a self imposed break for a month. What should we do about this then? -- Cheeseman W!RandomTalk 16:10, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Scrap the case. Make an arby's case against Nali for a) fucking up the arbitration process and b) reneging on the commitment he made to both parties. Done. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 16:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good. How about "The Urban Dead Wiki Vs. Nalikill"? -- Cheeseman W!RandomTalk 16:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Or we could just trash the case and be done with it. Much less work.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 17:25, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Keep it on there. I still intend to rule on this case; my self imposed logoff is still in effect- I'm just coming on here one last time to answer the results of my last few edits. When Grohl says he's finished putting his evidence up there, I'll make my ruling, don't you worry. Then and only then can this case be moved.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  21:49, 20 January 2008 (UTC):
I'm pretty sure you can not make people apolagise. I would find the precendent but I'm lazy.--Thekooks 21:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


Hurrah for Arbie Scandal '08, where Nali appoints himself the personality police and throws out consensus and community precedent in favor of his own twisted brand of justice! --Karekmaps?! 22:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow. Just. . . wow. This has to fall into my "stupidest things seen on the UD wiki" list for a couple reasons: a) that this "case" even made it to arbitration; b) that someone let Nalikill be artbitrator; c) that he is trying for the "forced apology" bullshit; and d) that it hasn't been thrown out by someone with more sense.--Jorm 23:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

The entire legitamacy of this process just took more than a few steps back. This further confirms that the wiki community is very-much flawed, & unless addressed, will continue to keep legit contributors @ bay. --Canker Sore|CK | GC | ZHU | MEM | 04:55, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd hardly call Nalikill representative of the community. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 05:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

The case was solid enough. but had nothing to do with pking or wars between groups or anything in game. It was an edit conflict about which category to place a group under, on the suburb page. thats all that should have been solved. why Nali decided to ask for ingame info is beyond me.--'BPTmz 05:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

So glad the rest of you finally saw this. This was a mockery of Chewbaccan proportions. Seriously - is there somewhere we can vote to make sure Nali has no power over anything whatsoever? I feel like we're looking at George W. Bush as he's trying to run for student council or something. NOW is our chance to nip this in the bud. The fate of the free world 20 years from now hangs in the balance!!!--Sarah Silverman 16:04, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I refer you to my case against him. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 16:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. I've never been compared to our president before. And here I thought you didn't like me.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  22:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Well...Everyone, or mostly everyone, for that matter, hates Bush. Thus meaning they hate you too. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 22:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
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