UDWiki talk:Administration/Vandal Banning/Archive3

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Discussions moved from the vandal page

Zombielord 2

Sorry, but I don't trust EVERY mod. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRCT+1 06:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure where trust comes into this. Remember - you aren't a mod. Your bid failed, remember? Cyberbob  Talk  07:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Some mods assume good faith and some others just don't: that's where trust comes to play IMO. Also, Gage, the guy seems even more confused than before. Why speedydelete his page? It's an userpage of an existant user, there's no need (or precedent) on deleting "unused user pages" or "alt accounts user pages". And don't bring issues that don't pertain the situation just because they will give you more advantages in a possible discussion Cyberbob: you know that I didn't say anything for you to bring that up. --Matthew Fahrenheit YRCT+1 07:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
If there's no good reason for an alt account, that account is banned and the user page moved to the main's userspace. That's been standard practice for some time now. We do know how to do our jobs, OK? Get the fuck down off of that high horse, because obviously we're more qualified than you to figure out how things are done - being actual mods and all. Cyberbob  Talk  07:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Matt: you brought up the issue of being a moderator and chose to make it an issue central to the argument, not Cyberbob. Your initial report reeks of arrogance. That got on Cyberbob and Gage's nerves. Cyberbob merely gave you a much deserved bitchslap to knock you off your high 'n' mighty perch. Most of your commentary was utterly irrelevant to the case, the rest was a mish-mash of inaccuracies. Bitching about it getting moved is irritating.
As we can plainly see from the outcome of the situation, it was a case of miscommunication, not malice or incompetence that led to Gage's actions. For someone who has oft misunderstood what everyone else thought was easily comprehensible your errant belief of Gage's assuming the worst reeks of hypocrisy. ZombieSpray's grammar was far from perfect the first time around. You have made frequent reference to your less-than-exemplary English skills before — something that has been at the route of miscommunication before. This is eerily similar to those instances. You should've cut Gage some slack. –Xoid MTFU! 11:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)


Here's the deal: A member of the group "Angels of Mercy" has added me to their group after I made it clear on that group's talk page that I had no desire to be a member of their group. They added me once and I removed my name - to which they added me again.

Now, if I'm correct, since this page is a Group User Page, it can be freely edited by "members" of this group - therefore, as long as this group (or members of it) continue to claim that I'm a member of their group, I think I should be allowed to freely edit "my" group's page, correct? TheUncleBob 01:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration Request - http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki_talk:Moderation/Arbitration#Need_an_arbitrator...


So people aren't allowed to know that Caiger Mall fell and all the zombies are celebrating? And people say it's only a rumor that Kevan hates undead people. --Sonny Corleone RRF CRF DORIS Hunt! 20:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh god Sonny. Shut the hell up while you are ahead. Kevan had no problem with somone calling it Barrah Mall... he had a problem with 2 warnings being given at once. Just... shut up. You are mouthing off to the owner of the wiki. Just... leave it.--Gage 20:16, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Bub was actually in the front lines throughout the fall of Caiger... --Kevan 20:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I know Bub was. Which was a complete surprise to Warlord Xyu and I. Which caused the bigger surprise about why you'd support a constant vandal that vowed to continue vandalizing the page. People like this are usually banned forever before being placed on the vandal data page. --Sonny Corleone RRF CRF DORIS Hunt! 20:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
No, this is different than page blanking. This is an NPOV issue sonny. These are good faith on his part. Don't speak of which you don't know.--Gage 20:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Kevan has a sockpuppet?! -GASP- but we just passed a rule against that! Don't worry mods.. I got this one. Warned!  :D -wonders if people still get jokes on the intraweb- --THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 20:27, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Months ago, during Big Bash, a C4NT dude vandalized Central Malton pages. He didn't blank it. He just put what he wanted and got rid of anything zombie. he was banned on the spot. --Sonny Corleone RRF CRF DORIS Hunt! 20:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I gave the First and second warning simultaniously since Comite had made the same edit (which I considered Vandalism) Multiple times before and During the same time I was in the process of Warning Him. I Further felt that the rarely used "3 minute Ban" would be enough to end the edit war and get Comite and Sony to work it out... Guess I was wrong. again. Conndrakamod TDHPD CFT 20:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no intention of pursuing this any further. Sonny can stomp his feet and demand that I be banned for "vandalizing" if he wants to - at least one reasonable person here understands where I am coming from. If Kevan says that the line stays, it stays. I don't agree with him, but I'm not going to butt heads with him over it. There is no point. I spent my last APs on those barricades in the NW corner as the first breakins were occurring, after sitting through two sieges over the timespan of almost a year. It's very frustrating for those of us who poured our hearts and souls into Caiger to see this happening. Still, I'll walk away from this one. --Comite 01:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh give me a break. Zombies have spent months being the underdog. Always losing, always getting nerfed. It get's very frustrating. And now that you all die and have to spend at least 2 weeks away from the Mall you cry. Go to Tynte Mall. Try falling every week. You'll know what it is like to have a Mall fall and struggle getting it back up. --Sonny Corleone RRF CRF DORIS Hunt! 02:18, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Whatever, Sonny. Caiger meant a lot to a lot of people. Things won't be the same now that it has fallen. Regardless, this is not the appropriate place for this discussion. --Comite 02:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

CryMeARiver.jpg --Sonny Corleone RRF CRF DORIS Hunt! 02:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You are right. Things won't be the same, they will be better! Barrah!--Gage 02:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


Since it is against the rules to use proxies shouldn't the user be banned also? Or do you just ban the proxy in cases like these? And what this guys been around since like July, around the time of the god and tito accounts, don't tell me that this isn't him (even more so since hes using a proxy, would be just like him to put something like that in his userpage). Manattack 19:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

We just ban the Proxies unless teh user is using the Proxy to circumvent another IP ban. Or can be proven to be a sockpuppet of a banned individual. Conndrakamod TDHPD CFT 19:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
He said that he is "just simply amazing" how clearer can it get? Burn the witch! (is it still allowed to say that here?) Manattack 20:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I am amazing. Are you going to ban me now? Saying shit doesn't mean anything. Plus, amazing is a commonly used adjective.--Gage 20:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I am Amazing! --Sonny Corleone RRF CRF DORIS Hunt! 21:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
No, I am Amazing!--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 21:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm Awesome!--Thari TжFedCom is BFI! 21:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm sparticus! Manattack 21:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, I am Spartacus--Gage 21:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Amazing may be a commonly used adjective, but remember that amazing was capitalised and that Outstanding was the name of his zombie.
Considering that this user voted against The General's bureaucrat candidacy (check Outstanding's contribs), and the sheer obviousness of it, plus the fact that it's a proxy? Most likely another established user just dicking around. If they don't vandalise, the account can stay, but I see no problems with the way this turned out. –Xoid MTFU! 01:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The General

I recieved email confirmation from 3page that General is (was?) the "N3PWV". He's been feeding them CheckUser history details, as well as being involved in numerous vandal sprees. I can only assume that it is his underlying desire to be accepted by Amazing which led him to do this - which isn't surprising, as 13-year-olds (yes, General is 13) can be very easily influenced. Requesting permabannage. Cyberbob  Talk  01:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, it's sekrit evidence. Assuming this is even legitimate, shouldn't this be on M/M, not here and in the Demotions page? -- ∀lan Watson T·RPM 01:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Need proof please. Otherwise this means nothing... - 343 U! 01:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure. Screenshot pending. Cyberbob  Talk  01:36, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
He's right. I told you this should go on the M/M page too on your talk, when you posted it on the Moderator Demotions page. - 343 U! 01:37, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Since part of General's betrayal involves vandalism, which has nothing to do with his mod powers, I'm putting that part of it here. Cyberbob  Talk  01:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Screenie's on M/M. I don't want to clog up this page anymore than possible, so I won't be putting it here. Cyberbob  Talk  01:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I've rebuked this already on the M/M page. I don't need to "be accepted" by amazing, i'm already a bureaucrat on his wiki! The claims of me being 13 could easily be considered libel, without proof, and don't have any relevance except to try to discredit me.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 18:09, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute... HIS wiki? God, I hope I didn't play any role in promoting you... -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 18:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Huh, what do you mean?--The General T Sys U! P! F! 18:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
And I quote "I don't need to "be accepted" by amazing, i'm already a bureaucrat on his wiki!" Are you saying this is Amazing's wiki? I seriously hope you aren't... -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 22:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Um, General means completely different wiki. --Brizth M T 22:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I see... That certainly is interesting... I retract my comments then, though my disaproval of The General remains... Amazing's own wiki... I shoulda know... -.- -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 22:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Xoid can back up your age, so are you sure you want to keep denying it? Cyberbob  Talk  21:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Certified=Insane, I was talking about Amazing's wiki. Cyberbob, you have yet to back up that accusation with any proof whatsoever, or to say what the point of it was other than to try to defame me.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 22:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

It's in my conversation logs... but wait. I forgot. I'm a lying, cheating serial faker of evidence. Cyberbob  Talk  02:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
You're 13, get over it. Trying to hide it won't help you. And yes, the fact that you are 13 lowers some people's trust in you. Early teens and 30s are the worse, just wait another 50 years and you'll have my full trust (no, I'm not claiming to be 60... but the % of 60s that are greivers is extremely low). Just face it, 13s cant be expected to have as much emotional stability as older people. -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 03:04, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
It's not in bob's conversation logs, I know that for a fact. Anyway, the only reason he's bringing this up is to try to strengthen his "case" against me.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 07:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
And how do you presume to know what is and what isn't in my logs? Cyberbob  Talk  08:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Also; why the hell else would I bring your age up? HURR. Cyberbob  Talk  08:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Because I know I didn't talk to you about it! Anyway, I think you've made my point for me.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 10:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
You must've missed the part where I said "Xoid can confirm". If you had read that part, you would know where I got it from. Cyberbob  Talk  11:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, Xoid hasn't confirmed it. I would ask him about it, but he's not on msn at the moment.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 12:49, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
He hasn't been on in ages. Cyberbob  Talk  21:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Age has no relevance in this or any case, only the actions of the user. --Zod Rhombus 01:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
The point of bringing up General's age was to demonstrate the tendency of kids to side with the "bad boy" in the search for excitement. Cyberbob  Talk  01:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
If that is the basis of your argument, it is weak. Age has no relevance, only actions. Either he did something or didn't, that's the burden of proof. There is no age issue. --Zod Rhombus 01:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree... not relevant. There are mature 13-year-olds and immature 30-year-olds. We have to keep to specific, known, actionable incidents and related evidence of them, not suggestive probabilities/guesses based upon tendencies/stereotypes (which, to be clear, I'm not judging any other evidence here--I'm just objecting to raising the age issue). Barbecue Barbecue 01:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Interesting that you both find your way here so close together... but no matter. The age issue is not the basis of my argument. General's longtime tendency to side with Amazing, as well as the fact that he is in Amazing's close good graces, as well as the fact that he doesn't really like anyone on this wiki, coupled with a number of little hints pointing towards him, have led myself (and, indeed, most of the moderating staff) to suspect him. The only thing separating me from them is that I'm willing to go on gut instinct, when General's use of proxies makes it forever impossible to pin him down. He is the only mod with motive, and the only mod with the kind of suspicious connections conducive to betrayal. Cyberbob  Talk  02:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
This is getting rediculous, please don't tell me that no one passed a policy since Amazing that would allow the demotion of drama-creating and/or untrusted sysops/bureaucrats to lose their status if the community desires it? Someone should get working on it... -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 02:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
There have been attempts, though none were recieved well by the other users. Mods have no actual obligation to be polite, believe it or not, although it is preferred. Untrustworthy mods have no place being mods, I agree, but there is no rule saying mods have to be trustworthy, either. Unfortunately, a history of hairsplitting and spirit-of-rule-breaking users (the most prominent example being Amazing, but there are many others) has resulted in no freedom for mods to use our own judgements. Cyberbob  Talk  02:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Geeze, I take a few days off and look at the shitstorm that ensues. For the record, after the Jedaz debacle, no one in good standing is getting banned without some serious evidence. I wouldn't put it past 3 Page concocting this purely to shift blame from the actual culprit, or indeed to 'force our hand' too early and let the 'mod on the inside' continue to operate with impunity. Honestly though? I. do. not. care. Everyone has divided loyalties, what matters is not when those loyalties may possibly conflict but when they do conflict.

If we started banning people on mere suspicion, I doubt much of the wiki would be left. The case is even weaker than that against Jedaz — at least he did a half decent job of making himself look guilty, you cannot claim the same in this instance.

One other thing; if age is a concern, then what are you doing as a moderator on the wiki, Cyberbob? You're 16. You've displayed bad judgement on occasion, just as The General has. As we all have. If The General is unfit to be a moderator, show us where. Ad hominem attacks mean nothing. –Xoid MTFU! 01:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Where did I say that age = unfitness? I was only enforcing the point that it is entirely possible that General has been influenced by Amazing. Nowhere did I say that it was entirely due to his age, and nowhere did I make that the main point of my attack. I love how people have picked the smallest aspect of this case and have turned it into a major point of contention. Cyberbob  Talk  04:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Because it is one that frequently resonates with people. I know it does with you; you don't want people judging you on your age. Perhaps a better question to ask is; why did you bring it up at all? : no duh. About the "influenced by Amazing" bit, irrelevant though it is; no duh. Of course he might've been influenced by Amazing. Does that mean we have proof that the General is doing something worth banning him for? No. –Xoid MTFU! 04:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Like I said. It was just another piece of the puzzle. *shrugs* If you're going to continue harping on it, I don't see anyway clear of this case bar archiving it. Cyberbob  Talk  04:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I know how concrete proof can be gotten. I look up N3PWV on google and I found that he was posting on this forums/topic: http://www.goodphp.com/index.php?do=topic&id=9769&PHPSESSID=d3e7764cbed0ec26b0fb8463da318b14#post100024667 about when the old vandal boards got shut down. All you have to do is get the mods there to confirm the ip of that poster :). 3page..6? 02:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


Rueful (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Same shit we have all come to know from Rueful--Gage 20:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I would say give him his second ban, but i'd like a second opinion on this, as I don't want to be hauled into M/M.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 20:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Did it before I reloaded and saw your edit. Seems like definite vandalism to me, though I didn't check if he ought to have lost his warnings under the new system.--'STER-Talk-ModP! 20:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, i'd agree with you. I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't just me looking at it from a biased point of view. I don't think he should lose his warnings, as I don't think he's made enough edits.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 20:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Bah, it's not vandalism if he's right, is it? ;) It is, after all, as simple as he said. -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 01:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Did anyone ask you of your opinion? No. Are you the arbitrator? No. Did 3 people agree that it was vandalism? YES.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 01:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Wow, very mature mods we have here, no? Not that I expect much of him anyways. -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 01:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I think I handled your pointless drama making rather well actually. I could of told you to "go fuck yourself", but I didn't, although I have now.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 01:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Was that supposed to prove you are mature? -.^ -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 01:50, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
No, it was more along the lines of "Stop wasting our time".--The General T Sys U! P! F! 01:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, I continued this on his talk page, as it was no longer of any relevance to Rueful. I just hate his guts, won't hide that. -Certified=InsaneQuébécois 02:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

General Abizaid

General Abizaid (talk | contribs | logs | block | IP Check | vndl data | discuss)

Removing comments from middle of conversations. --Brizth M T 18:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

You can't do that. They were my own comments and I'll delete them if i want. I created them and will delete them if i wish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by General abizaid (talkcontribs) at an unknown time.

Wow, this guy makes Gold Blade look good. --_Vic D'Amato__Dead vs Blue_ 19:05, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
If you don't have something to add, kindly remove yourself from the conversation.--Gage 19:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Warned.--Gage 19:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't care what you all say. I will delete my comments I posted because I created them and their my property since I made them. I don't care about the other peoples comments. But anything I wrote is mine and can erase if I want. Thats all I want but just to satasify you annoying mod's I'll put it in the speedy deletion request or whatever its called. General Abizaid 19:13, 21 December 2006

You cannot 'copyright' your comments after publishing them in the public domain, ergo your claims of ownership are false. You made them, but the UDWiki owns them. –Xoid MTFU! 19:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
He never published them in the public domain. From Project:Copyrights, All content on the Urban Dead wiki is owned by the individual user who created it, and may not be reproduced without their express permission. So, not public domain. --Toejam 21:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

How about we take the comments down, and put "comment removed" in their place? That way, the comments are gone, but the structure of the conversation remains, so it's clear that people aren't talking into thin air. --Toejam 01:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I think you deleted the last part because ToeJam had a point, the comments are my property as stated by that one page so I think I'll delete them but put "comment removed by owner" to not make people look like there randomly talking. Thanks for your help Toejam, if I ever see you ingame I'll thank you. Also since that one page proved I did nothin wrong I should be removed from this list since I had the right to delete those posts. General Abizaid 2:25, 21 December 2006

Ok sry about posting in wrong area, but with Project:Copyrights page which states I own the comments of mine. I can delete them now and will do so but also request to be removed from the vandals list as my actions by that one page are justified and inturn I'll just put "comment removed by owner" when I delete a comment. Case closed now. General Abizaid 2:40, 22 December 2006

Sam?--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 02:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

So what does this mean I'm right and am clear of vandal page and can change my comments to what I suggested. General Abizaid 2:58, 22 december 2006

No, you cannot. Removing parts of a conversation breaks the continuity and flow of a conversation. You may not remove your comments, and I will ban you if you do it again.--Gage 03:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
But thats were you little moding powers can't stop me. That page states that those comments are mine and I can do what I want with them. I'm just gonna put "comment removed by owner" besides those comments arn't important, the main point of them is long gone and there pointless. I also want off the list since since I own those comments and can do what ever, I didn't do any thing wrong. General Abizaid 3:10, 22 December 2006
You want to get banned? Do that, and you should be set.--Gage 03:13, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Would you shutup with that banning crap for a sec and listen. That link in one of my earier post clearly says that those comments are my property. Which in turn mean I can do with them what I wish. Which in turn means I can modify them no matter what you say and if you don't let me I'll take it to a admin to get you little word over ruled. General Abizaid 3:16, 22 Decmeber 2006

I am an admin, and the other admins agree with me. It has been established by precedent upon precedent that comments, once responded to, cannot be edited/removed. Wanna play this game with me buddy? Try me.--Gage 03:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well than fine can I just put a deleteion request in for those comments on giddings talk page as they are serving no purpose. Also when is the eariest I can get off the list. I see the lastest a person is on there is Oct 2006. General Abizaid 3:26, 22 December 2006

As someone who's tangled with Gage before, let me give you a word or two of advice. Give up now. You're not getting anywhere, and it's only going to get worse for you from here. --_Vic D'Amato__Dead vs Blue_ 03:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
:P--Gage 03:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
General, deletion requests are for whole pages, not parts of pages, and that page has no reason to be deleted. As for your record, it will remain forever on this page, though the warnings may be invalidated, they will never be completely removed.--Gage 03:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I think you need to read the newly rehashed wiki policy to which I'm going to quote:
"Moderators, as trusted users of the wiki, are given the right to make judgment calls and use their best discretion on a case-by-case basis. Should the exact wording of the policies run contrary to a moderator's best good-faith judgment and/or the spirit of the policies, the exact wording may be ignored."
So.... suck it?--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 03:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok you mods win but I don't care now as I don't use the wiki for edits but for info on surburbs. I think I left my mark anyway on how to stand up till the end and I respect you mods for the jobs you must have to do except for animesucks, I hope you get punched in the mouth because all you are is mouth. Good day to you gentlemen. General Abizaid 3:46, 22 December 2006

If AS is all mouth, why the need to specify where he gets hit? Cyberbob  Talk  04:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Hate to burst your bubble, jackhole, but I'm not a mod.. I'm just someone who has a clear understanding of how to edit the wiki.--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 04:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Gage, Anime, and predisposition towards precedent FTW. Conndrakamod TDHPD CFT 09:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, precedent FTL. Check out this policy to make reverting your own edits or removing content you just added not be vandalism. It was withdrawn when both Vista and Cyberbob said it was already part of the rules. --Toejam 01:28, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Again, that only means if the comments haven't been responded to: in this case, they had.--Gage 01:36, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
OK. --Toejam 17:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone who knows about these things should should write a list of all the obscure rules here, and publicize it. There's no way that the average user can be expected to know about something if it's buried in previous vandalism cases. --Toejam 17:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Commonsense covers that. Just because various idiots lack any doesn't mean they need to be coddled. –Xoid MTFU! 20:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Xoid, there's coddling, and then there's usefully heading off classes of problems in advance. I took another look at UDWiki:Vandalism and find that there are some well-established, general, and fairly consistent precedents that should be documented there, including the issue that started this whole case. To which should also be added the broader definition of impersonation that is de facto in use, which includes edits of others' comments--the current document largely characterizes impersonation as wholesale crafting of comments that are attributed to others. I would strongly recommend that we put forth a policy proposal that adds the former as a bullet under "Some examples" and that impersonation be clarified/expanded to reflect current meaning. I'll try to get to it unless someone else does first, or unless someone can point out why this would not be helpful. --Barbecue Barbecue 21:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Coddling. People who are too stupid to realise how removing their comments affects the flow of conversation and changes the meaning of what others have said simply do not deserve the privilege of being called human; to call them such is an insult to every living creature with an IQ exceeding that of a yam. It is a waste of time to try and educate 'people' that stupid — they are incapable of learning. –Xoid MTFU! 07:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
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