User:Devorac/Mad Science Laboratory

Expert Skills v0.2

Timestamp: Devorac 16:30, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Type: New Skills

Scope: Everyone banging their heads against the granite ceiling

Description: Most everyone knows that the game burnout hits at level 41 (43 for zombies) when all skills have been earned, personally I think there should be more to work towards, (other than the tic-tac-toe of defending/destroying suburbs and buildings in the war against zombies/harmanz) a bit more to achieve. Unfortunately there are numerous problems with introducing any new skills into the game, the biggest goes something like this: "All the old players will suddenly get a buff out of nowhere.". That concern is quite legitimate, and previous means of circumventing it (reducing everyone who has 41-43 levels XP to zero, setting an XP ceiling) have been met with hostility and usually something involving EP size. This brings us to my proposal... Expert Skills, or proficiency, whatever you want to call it. What this means is that for most actions there is an additional skill that cannot be purchased with XP, it must be earned through repetition. These are skills for people who do what they do really well, you won't get these for blowing two lvl 1 zombies in half with a shotgun (120 XP) or healing 5 10HP lvl 1 survivors back to full health (100-200XP, 20-40 FAKs). For instance I think that to achieve an expert skill level with FAKs you should have to use about 2200 of them. Yes, twenty-two-hundred. Work out the AP math of that and it is two solid months of AP usage. Two solid months doing nothing but FAK people. Yeah that's a lot but I want these skills to be really cool things that you can be proud of, not just milestones. On the skill tree theses would show up as a third area after zombie skills labeled Expert Skills. The skills themselves are cool things that you will be happy to have, but the won't break the game. This is a current list of all the expert skills, I'll try to keep it as balanced between zombie and survivor skills as I can. Survivor (Many More Coming) Frugal Doctor (0/2200 First-Aid Kits Administered) Not yet Achieved 5% chance that a FAK will not be used up when healing a patient. Waste Not, Want Not. Junkyard Jackal (2543/2200 Hits with Improvised Weapons) Achieved! +10% chance to hit with all improvised weapons 5% chance to deal +1 damage when striking with improvised weapons as well. I don't know what this is, but I bet it'll hurt when it hits you. Toughness (2349/6000 Damage taken as a Survivor) Not yet Achieved 5% To take only half normal damage when attacked, rounded up. Applied after Flack jacket where applicable. I'd be lying if I said this didn't sting like all get out. Doorman (42/3000 Barricade levels lowered or raised.) Not Yet achieved +5% chance to successfully raise barricades when building. +5% chance to lower barricades on strike. Strength comes from the back and legs, use your shoulders on the big stuff and you'll just torque something Lumberjack (1438/3000 Hits with an Axe) Not Yet Achieved +5% chance to hit with Fire Axe 10% chance to not use an AP on a miss. You lose yourself in the Rhythm after a while; Raise, chop, recover, raise, chop, recover, raise... Pack Rat (1071/6000 Items found) Not Yet Achieved +10% max encumbrance. Hold on, I just need one more thing... just one more... Deadeye (721/2200 Pistol Hits) 5% chance to deal an additional 1 point of damage with the pistol. Happiness is a warm gun... Tuck and Roll (6092/6000 Free runs made) +15% chance to not take damage from free-running into a ruin. It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end. Zombie (Many More Coming) Masticate (0/2200 Survivors Bitten) Not yet Achieved* Extra 10% Increase to Zombie Bite accuracy when gripping target. 15% chance that the zombie will not use an AP when missing a bite on a gripped target. OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM Iron Grasp (0/2200 Survivors Gripped**) Not Yet Achieved 5% extra accuracy bonus when using tangling grasp. 5% Reduced chance for a survivor to slip grasp. Oh God I think he's got me, oh sh- *crunch* Scar Tissue (281/9000 Damage taken as a Zombie) Not Yet Achieved HP Maximum as a Zombie raised by an additional 5 points. Stacks with body-building, or rotting flesh. Goddamnit! These bitches just won't die! Destructive Intent (4/2200 Barricade levels lowered as a zombie) Not Yet Achieved 10% chance to lower barricade levels by an extra point on a successful strike. Did you hear someth- AUGHH! Hunter's Instinct (15/1500 Scent Trails Activated) Not Yet Achieved Zombie gets a +1 Damage on the last Character to attack it. +10% to hit bonus when attacking the last survivor to attack it. Word of advice boy, Don't start what you can't finish... These bastards get pretty angry Blood Hunt (1/2500 Scent Death Maps Activated) Not Yet Achieved Squares with infected or dying survivors are asterisked on the scent death map. Look kid, if someone gets wounded too badly and you can't fix it, you either leave them behind or shoot them... It's safer to you and kinder to them. Ripping Hands (237/2200 Hand impacts on a survivor) Not Yet Achieved +5% Accuracy bonus with hands. 5% Chance to deal an extra 1 damage. Luckily for them it doesn't take much in the way of brains to slaughter and maim. Omni-sense (1/1000 Survivors killed as a zombie) Not Yet Achieved No accuracy debuffs affect the zombie. (I.e Dark buildings) ...The prevailing theory is that they rely on all their senses equally, it would explain how they are undeterred by darkness or extreme light... Additionally I'm thinking of adding a single additional special expert skill for each class to make things a bit more unique. Battlefield Surgeon Required Class: Medic Pre-requisite Expert Skill: Frugal Doctor The Character can perform surgery in any powered building. Bite down on this... try to relax. Jack Of All Trades Required Class: Consumer Pre-requisite Expert Skill: Junkyard Jackal 1% chance to deal +2 damage with any weapon. He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence Endurance Runner Required class: Scout Pre-requisite Expert Skill: Tuck and Roll 10% chance to not use an AP when running out in the open. (Not free-running) You run. You run and run until you can't feel your legs and your chest feels like it's going to split, and then you run some more. These skills are hidden as a second tier skill underneath their pre-requisite expert skill, effectively hiding them until the first tier expert skill is earned. Now I'm thinking that this extra skill is automatically given once you earn it's pre-requisite, after all there is only one per character class and it is meant to amplify your base class. I*This may seem over-powered and it may indeed replace maul for high level zombies, but I really think the Uber zombies should be, well Uber. I**Counts each time you re-grip, crushes don't count. Okay. thoughts?

Discussion (Expert Skills V0.2)

Alright we are updated with 7 (seven) new skills awaiting your comments-Devorac 16:35, 3 May 2010 (BST) (Lelouch I kept your comment because it made me feel all fuzzy inside.. :P)

EPIC WIN Wait, what? The title's wrong... Come to think of it, what the hell is up with the picture? Uhuh. No way. No fucking way. You're telling me that someone actually made a good suggestion on DS? Get your lying ass out of here before I start putting bullets into it.

This is the best idea you've ever had, ever.

Lelouch vi Britannia 03:00, 3 May 2010 (BST)

I still like your idea, very well balanced and fun for newbies and experts alike. You do plan on special expert skill for all classes right?--V darkstar 17:13, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Yes... It is difficult to think of skills that are balanced, fit the class, and have a fitting pre-req though... I'll probably release a few more tomorrow. -Devorac 17:53, 3 May 2010 (BST)

I still don't like the idea of expert skills at all, and I think that a good number of the ones you've given as examples are overpowered. --User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 19:59, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Please by all means go into how and why they are unbalanced, I'll do whatever I can to address your concerns. While I probably won't be able to do anything about it I would also like to hear your thoughts on why you don't like Expert Skills in general. -Devorac 21:05, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Right, here we go: Scar Tissue - providing one side with an instant +10 health, especially combined with the fact that they stand up with full health, is slightly unfair. The 9000 points of damage equates to roughly 150 kills, something all three of my main characters can claim, as well as my minor characters being a good part of the way there. Major newb killer, as well as making it much harder to kill anyone.

Omni-sense - Theoretically not too bad, but the prerequisite has nothing to do with the skill.

Masticate, Lumberjack, Endurance Runner - Simply put, if you don't want to use an action point, then don't perform an action. Misses are there for a reason, and if we take them away, the game nears pointlessness. Before you attempt to reply that it'll only be on rare occassions, I direct you to the guideline: Rare does not equal balanced. This suggestion holds true to that.

Deadeye, Jack Of All Trades and to a lesser extent Ripping Hands - +1 damage to the most powerful weapon in the game is insanely unbalancing. +2 damage to all weapons, including the most powerful weapon in the game, is INSANELY unbalancing. Hopefully Aichon will provide us with some of his brilliant maths.

Pack Rat - 100% =/= 110%.

Frugal Doctor - As with Masticate, etc, if you don't want to use an item, don't use it.

Battlefield Surgeon - Seriously overpowered. The extra 5hp should be a benefit from staying around a certain type of building, it should most definitely not be a permanent feature.

Last but not least Toughness - If you need me to explain why halving all damage to a target is a bad idea, then I doubt explaining would help. :P

And on the subject of these skills in general they will ALWAYS benefit advanced players more than newbies. The gap will always be made larger, and it will become harder and harder for new players to play the game. --User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 21:25, 3 May 2010 (BST)

To clarify, read the costly does not equal balanced section here to see what I'm getting at.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 21:30, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Okay,

Scar Tissue I'm open to changing this to the same as human toughness or halving the bonus.... in fact I think I will do that... It is a much more difficult one to balance out.

Omni-sense If you can think of better I'll gladly put it in... Otherwise consider it the zombie brain getting used balancing the senses.

Masticate, Lumberjack, Endurance Runner Lumber jack, 1.5 Extra attacks. Masticate, about 2 extra attacks. Endurance runner if you happen to spend all of your 50 AP outside (unlikely) you get 5 additional AP. Also Rare was meant for items (I.E the suggestion for a 0.001% chance to find a minigun in armories) not so much for percentages, if it was we would never have flare guns. On rare occasions the RNG opens up to me and I can get 40+ shots out without missing (42 is my record) does this mean I should have my pistols taken from me? No.

Deadeye, Jack Of All Trades and to a lesser extent Ripping Hands It was far FAR less overpowered than a 5% accuracy buff. Deadeye 1.625 bonus damage under ideal circumstances (50 AP, no reloads). Jack of all trades pistol, .7 average bonus. Shotgun (full load no reloads 32 shots) .416 bonus damage. Fire Axe, .4 Bonus damage. Err... Massive Overpower isn't quite what I think of when I look at this.

Pack Rat - 100% =/= 110%. Well that is brilliant math there, it doesn't exactly tell me why you object though.

Frugal Doctor ... Okay if that wasn't a joke I'm going to have to look at you like you're crazy. "If you don't want to die confronting zombies don't confront zombies" Why thank you captain obvious. This is a "Hey Cool!" buff. If you really believe that it is too over powered I am open to halving it again.

Battlefield Surgeon - Sorry not changing this one.

Toughness Please read the suggestion. It hurts my massive ego when people do this.

Gaps are what make it fun. If there was no gap between 1 and 41 few people would have any interest. Even if a character had all of these skills (I need to make a note that any zombie expert skills do not carry over as a survivor and vice versa) The difference between a 41 and a 41 with expert skills is not great. The fun of them comes from achieving them, these skills are designed to be things that happen on a "Well that was nice" basis.-Devorac 22:30, 3 May 2010 (BST)

I do not consider you to have fully addressed my points, and still do not agree with this suggestion. However, since neither of us are going to agree, I guess that leaves it at that.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 22:40, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Well no I didn't largely because several were on the odd side (Pack rat, toughness) however I am glad that you have decided to leave it off here rather than fill the page with needless drama. If you would like to explain more clearly (And include your own math to back your arguments up) you are welcome on the talk page of my Mad Science lab. -Devorac 22:51, 3 May 2010 (BST)

Jusy remember Devorac you can't please everyone I think the originals where good enough.--V darkstar 13:26, 4 May 2010 (BST)

I think that Pack Rat is kind of towards the OP side, because all survivors search frequently and we hit 118% encumbrance too often as a side as it is. Battlefield Surgery might need to be in a powered building? Just an idea, not a big thing. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:41, 5 May 2010 (BST)

Alright I'll see if I can change pack rat a little to make it work... The Surgery is a fair change and it makes sense, done. -Devorac 06:08, 5 May 2010 (BST)

Awsome idea. And remember OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM --Kralion 22:57, 6 May 2010 (BST

Okay should update to Version .3 tomorrow or the next day. I'll see if I can change pack rat and I'll ad some new stuff to get flamed. -Devorac 06:09, 7 May 2010 (BST)

Unexpected (Unremembered actually) events have slowed production of V .3 at best I'll have it out tomorrow. Sorry guys 'n gals -Devorac 22:36, 9 May 2010 (BST)

Don't like it. Makes UD too much like other "grinding" MMOs. BoboTalkClown 16:04, 8 May 2010 (BST)