User talk:Agent White/Archive3

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Don't freak out

But I just re-added the Chudleys and Darvalls links to the CMS page under the allies section like I said I would, and you implied you'd be cool with. I also added a very brief (one sentence) comment describing them and inviting others to join. This is the usual sort of stuff for allied groups. Can we finally put this behind us and get back to the business at hand? I'd also like a link to those threads you mentioned talking about you's guys' plan and the complaints about my alterations. If there's something I should apologize for I'd like to know. If there isn't I'd like to know that too. If you don't want to post a link just cut and paste the transcript of the discussion to my talk page for me to read. You can edit out security-sensitive bits if you want them to stay secret. Lachryma does have a valid point about why do the CMS Meta having exclusive rights to set policy, but I'm exhausted from arguing it. It's really getting boring. So let's bury the hatchet, and get back to doing something constructive. Tyler Whitney0 03:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, dude... We're going to have to get over this sooner or later. Editing it yet again to say we're not members or that those who've signed up for the CMS and those strike groups were "claiming" to be allies and members was really really petty and immature. Are you going to say that all those people listing CMS in their profiles but not on the forums don't count as CMS? The group doesn't only exist on the forums. There's also a couple hundred people actually playing the game. I revised the phrasing yet again. Seriously if you're going to follow me around and change everything I write you might want to find a new hobby. Tyler Whitney0 13:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandalizing our wiki page was really petty too, and you AREN'T members, you're independent groups which seem to claim your members but take part in ineffective trenchcoat tactics as far as I can see.--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 18:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Dude trenchcoating's just a word you're throwing around. We havn't done anything yet trenchcoating or no. It's all planning so far. And if those comments were posted by independent groups you have no right to erase them to suit your wishes. That's vandalizing. Nowhere in the revised comments were there claims to CMS membership. They were completely neutral in that regard. In fact, go back and look at the comments and point out to me where they claim CMS membership. Changing them was less a valorous stroke against vandalism than a beef with me. I'm going to say it again. Please, get over it so we can start taking back the mall. Look at the comment with objective eyes, regardless of this bizarre little feud we have going here, and let them stand as an independent group's announcement of allegiance and invitation for new members. Forum participation isn't even required to be an ally as we've seen with all the allies in past and current sieges who merely posted a link in the section. I'm sure you remember the bloated size it had gotten to, many examples of which had died out or become defunct. That doesn't matter because I'm going to introduce them in the appropriate section of the forum right after I'm done here. If you want to earn the leadership position you so clearly assume you'll see that's exactly what you've wanted all along and accept it.

And if individual members put CMS in their profiles who's to say they aren't. The only prerequisite for membership in the game is to put it in the profile. You know what, forget that. I don't care anymore. Those are separate groups. They're listed on the page as allies not members. You had no right to change a separate group's comments. I'm going to change it to the least effective, most non-comittal language possible merely describing that the groups exist. Since I'm organizing those groups I should be the only one who has the right to post such comments (and I'm paraphrasing you here). There's a difference between disagreements between individuals and between groups. WE ARE ON THE SAME SIDE. We both want survivors in the mall. You're pissed at me cause I started organizing things to my own whim, while you, as forum mod, thought you had final say in that regard. Although, one wonders how your complaint that I was making arbritrary decisions stands while you block the contributions of anyone but you and your 20 compatriots (such a very small fraction of the entire group). Ok, fine, you win. I'm joining the forums so I can contribute there like you want. I'll put my ideas to the public and let them decide.

And don't start with me about ineffective tactics. Let's not mention the greater than average helping of blame for the fall of the mall that rests squarely on the CMS forums and CMS Meta. Who failed in their mandate to lead and organize the defenders. That was the justification for their whole status as the voices of the group and they failed. Who kept information on the wiki that was over half a year old or older? Who failed to orgainize even themselves as defenders? And don't start with me about the sancrosanct nature of the CMS wiki page when for over a year any trechcoat with a copy of Henry V could place a revised quote of the St. Crispan's Day speech on the wiki.

That's it, I'm done. I'm going to the forums. I'll edit the comments for the Darvalls and Chudleys and if you have specific problems with the wording come to me with them. Prove you're a nice guy and let me address the problem myself before arbritrarily striking them down. As the person who posted them and as the head of the independent groups I should be the only one with the right to edit them anyway. Anything else would be vandalism. (crosses fingers, closes eyes, and starts whispering "please, prettyplease Saint Caiger, let this be the last time me and Agent White have to fight. Let's talk on the forums like civilized people and start contributing together to our shared goals.) Tyler Whitney0 00:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I just did it. Notice how I used the vague and unspecific "survivors" rather than the loaded terms "members" or "contributors." If you have any problems with what's there come to me so I can change them myself. And come with notes on what's wrong with it. I'll be updating the pages themselves to better reflect their current status soon. Thank you. Tyler Whitney0 01:00, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

And take down the "sign up for a strike group" part of the CMS wiki if all it's doing is serving as a spot for you to say there is no strike group section. It's confusing for people to see and serves no purpose. Tyler Whitney0 01:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

It is sign up. The CMS page should only reflect the feelings of the CMS. If a group puts a comment up we don't want, we can remove it. Sop far my only dealings with you have been you attempting to change the nature of a group that IS functioning. The wiki page is there ONLY to filter people to the CMS forum. You see, no matter what you believe, the CMS is different, because you don't understand. As far as I am concerned you are simply an arrogant annoyance who is trying to cause as many problems as possible.
I did not edit the pages of your "independent groups", which still seem to call themselves members of the CMS. I edited their talk page, which is of course public. The front page isn't. Therefore I did not remove the part where they called themselves part of the CMS, since it is their right to lie on their own talk pages. I don't know about you, but how many CMS have you seen on the wiki? Likely, 1. This is because we don't frequent the wiki, and would prefer a static wiki in order to allow it to serve NO OTHER PURPOSE than a way of LETTING PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE CMS. Isn't that the purpose of a wiki? Now when someone comes in and changes it all around and attempts to make plans that wont work (and yes, we do have experience), we don't take kindly. Now, personally, I DON'T WANT to see your group grow. That however is not CMS policy. Recruiting ON OUR GROUP PAGE however IS vandalism. I personally would rather see people join the CMS on their forum and become effective survivors and a strong group. Or I would like them to simply be a member who simply choose to defend Caiger. I don't want to see two new ineffective groups.
Now, I agree, I do have a personal vendetta against you. Mostly due to your own arrogance in assuming you could randomly control the CMS without the current members even knowing who the hell you were. I am in the process of asking someone who doesn't hate you to edit the wiki, same with dealing with your request for forum access (however, since I am the one who gives it out, I apologize that it may take a while).--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 02:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Umm....

I'm aware that Tyler Whitney is not Mr. CMS policy, that's nice you like forums, but how is a wiki a 'horrible place to plan'? A restricted forum is nice for plotting in secret, but when are you going to let casual/non-fanatic players what's happening with your mall? And running a communal group from a secret, limited-population forum is a little...strange, no? I'm just curious about all that...--Lachryma 02:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

No, he is NOT Mr. CMS policy. He simply was trying to set it. The forums ARE the official CMS settings. The wiki has no security. Communal in this case means no strict leadership, however it does mean that we DO have policy. And Whitney was going against it with his wiki page. The forum is the best way to communicate. If you want to have your voice heard you go to the forum, since the EFFECTIVE members of the CMS are in fact on the forum. And all policy is set there.--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 04:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I was just wondering about your thoughts. Thanks for your time.--Lachryma 04:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Simply been angry these last few days, the whole thing has been... annoying. Trying to make an acceptable group, and Tyler has not helped.--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 04:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

So, judging from what you said here and what you said to Tyler up above (sorry I read that!), the CMS is a forum based group, right? So maybe you should make that very clear on your wiki page. The thing is...how did the forum help you guys on November 10th? I have no vested interest in your group, in what you guys do, or even if Caiger is zombie free or not (I just think that retaking the mall would be fun!), and from my [relatively] objective view, the forums aren't the best place for what needs to happen. I had an alt in Caiger during Shacknews's little thing and the only leadership I saw was a single radio broadcast (the idea to add [CMS] to each part was good though) and random graffiti. I came to your wiki page as a new player looking for...direction or something, and I found old stuff. There was no announcement for a coordinated assault on Latrobe, no organized plan for river tactics, and barely anything indicating there was a major siege going on! *sigh* And sometimes I just have to ask myself why I care. Good luck with your forum.--Lachryma 03:43, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, yes, we had someone broadcasting. That is what we did for ingame. How did it help on November 10th? It made it not November 1st... We've always had contact info listed for our forum. And the radio broadcast told you much about it. The forums are the best place, trust me, it's where everyone who does anything useful does. Trust me. If you've never been on a forum, try it. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 03:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Are you being...condescending?! *gasp!* Well, I like the wiki and you have a disturbing love affair with like the forum, so we'll agree that we both are perfect and always right to disagree and thus move on with our lives. See you in Caiger's 'Victoria's Secret' in the near future!--Lachryma 04:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

You're being both insulting and petty. Do not lecture me. You seem to have no understanding and I don't have to care. If you choose not to trust me, I don't have to care. Just don't modify anything I am charged to keep in order. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 04:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Um...whoah...I'm not touching CMS stuff, I didn't mean to be insulting, just trying to be funny (and failing), and I never said feth about trusting or not trusting you. That was supposed to be a peace offering, "Tell me what to do about Caiger!" sort of thing, not...anything against you! Bloody hell, I have horrible communication skills...Just wanting to help out...--Lachryma 04:43, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I prefer not to be mocked... Didn't think that was the best way to put it, but hey, if you want to help, great. Best way to help is to use the forum, even if it is just to check in and learn the plans in order to help out. If that is too much, then I would recommend going to one of the suburbs nearby and finding a building that is barricaded or something, and try to help hold it. All else would be not leaked onto the wiki to avoid enemies seeing it. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 18:28, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, me and 9 others I know are decently near Caiger. I'll just chill out and wait for Tyler to let me know the plans on the forum.--Lachryma 18:32, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

If Tyler were to leak plans on the forum onto the wiki, at the very least his permissions would be removed, we do not want people ruining our secrecy. The way to find plans on the forum is to join the forum.--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 18:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

...or he could just email me. That's secure, right? Of course we don't want anyone knowing CMS's plan.--Lachryma 19:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid none of the organized CMS have your email--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 19:14, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Will try to remember, why not, however, join up on the forum, where the plan is... I mean, we have a system so I don't have to remember each and every members email every time we want to do something, why not use it... --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 22:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Fine, you converted me to your heathen forum (I'm joking). I'll slap something on the Join the CMS thread and I expect quick access (Joke)! I'll try to keep updated on the plan, but I barely have enough time...oh well, that's not your problem. Thanks again!--Lachryma 22:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks alot. Glad to see you on board, and hoping we can work together well in the future.--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 23:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay

I just saw your comment from the 2nd of this month listed under the more clean up topic. CMS has of course been communal since the start, but in my defence I've seen very little activity even in the forums you mentioned that would progress towards what we want (survivors back in Caiger). As I said before, the many people and a few groups who signed up for the strike groups I was organizing justify their existence on the wiki. That is, at least as much as whoever was posting their nonsense poems on the page. Silly poems such as that are the work of one person. So how can the many who signed up for these groups be dismissed as the work of marginalized whackos? The many persons' desire to be in a strike group is as legitimate or moreso than one person's sloppy poem.

And as for the complaint that I have never been seen in the CMS staple forums as yet, well I havn't seen much of anyone else there recently either. I see lots of posts dating from November with no progressive actions, and those from this month are no better. One can say a question should be proposed to the group (in the forums) but if no one answers, what then? And in any case, the organization and orders I was making were for those who volunteered for those groups. With anyone else it was merely suggestions.

And the information I saw on the page before I started altering it was so grossly out of date I can't imagine how someone could defend retaining it. I really don't want to start any sort of political struggle here. If the CMS is meant to be communal then that should mean if 20-30 people want to do something they should have the right to post what they're doing on the wiki. And as I've said elsewhere, the links to other pages is the most conservative, least intrusive way to permit that. If there is a "CMS model" as your post from Dec. 2nd says, then those guidelines should be posted for all to see. Especially since the group makes such regular and lengthy claims of informal, popular leadership.

In any case, this is my initial and least considered response. The VERY LAST thing I want is for there to be any sort of infighting between any survivors. So let's talk this out and have it resolved before the Big Push on Caiger later this month. I look forward to passing out first aid kits to you and all the CMS Meta old guard once the attack is under way. Tyler Whitney0 06:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

You know, more editing that goes against CMS policy will be considered vandalism. The fact that you can't see our posts means neither can the zombies, SHUT UP! --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 08:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Dude, seriously what's the problem? As I said before, my stuff has as much a right to exist as somebody's poem. And the last post wasn't claiming to set policy for the entire CMS. Just for those who wanted to sign up. And I was designing it to be as unobtrusive as possible. So what's the problem? And what's the CMS policy my stuff was contrary to? Telling any contributor to the CMS to shut up is a really bad attitude. It's like you're begging for a rerun of the last seige.
And like I've said to other people, the secrecy bit to the forums is obsolete. The zeds have spies everywhere and know what conditions are like in the mall as well as we do. I'm going to work so I'll be away from my computer for the rest of the day. I hope you'll be willing to settle this reasonably by the time I get back. Tyler Whitney0 14:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
And even if you want to consider the two strike groups as separate from the CMS they have as much a right to post their intentions as any of the other groups and allies who've signed on. Tyler Whitney0 14:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
The problem is you. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. I told the groups that they are NOT CMS members, and therefore allowed to attempt to ally with us. However, the CMS page is a GROUP page, a group which YOU are not representing the interests of. You realize that there is a thread that you can't see on the CMS board simply about you and the problems you've been causing for tactics. I am pretty sure we're able to keep things secret enough, the ONLY people who have access have characters who's movements we have seen and we have ALL be defended by each other. Even if we DO have spies (which I acknowledge we might) it makes it hard if we slightly try. Just stop vandalizing the page, it may have a right to exist, but NOT on the CMS page. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 21:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Either the CMS is communal as it claims and anyone has a right to contribute or it isn't. And if it isn't then it should be announced now so that everyone knows what kind of group it's become. My contributions were never meant to counter anyone else's plans. Every time I did add something I invited people to contribute. I also don't think it's any member of the CMS' business to turn away members. I'll add the groups again under the allies section which, if you've been truthful, you shouldn't have a problem with. It's also probably not any member of the CMS' business to tell a group of people that they can't coordinate amongst themselves for the CMS.

And please remove that little quote denouncing me. Do it as much as you like but keep it off the main page where all our friends and enemies can see it. It's really bad for the image of group which isn't too good right now in any case.

I'd love to see this thread trash talking me. I'm always up for a good roast. Post a link on my talk page. Tyler Whitney0 22:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It is communal, however changing or setting policy is a communal thing. You took it all on yourself. The thread is not trash talking you, it is talking about the problems you've cause, and is available only to mods/admins of the CMS-Meta forums. They should become allies, by posting the request on our forums. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 22:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you see I was looking at these forums and every time I went I'd see irregular posts by only a few people, and hardly any discussion of what we should do. Sometimes the latest post under a forum heading was months old. So I was thinking that the forums were inactive and started making plans with people I knew. If there are more active forums somewhere point me to them and I'll jump on board for that. If there's some big plan that's already in the works I may even make a public apology for the confustion. The thing is, if there is a plan at this point it's the tree falling in the woods. Nobody knows about it, and nobody can see it. I actually just tried to join the forum in the thread marked out for it and it didn't go through for some reason. I had an account but it said I didn't have permission to add anything. As the mod, if you could do something about that it'd be awesome.

In any case if there is a plan already in the works I want in. How many have signed up so far? Have you guys set a date? Where are you gathering? What are you attacking on the first day? Who's going to retake Latrobe and Sweeney? Are we going to try to take Isadore's and its nearby necrotechs or are we going to set a new revive point? You can only keep this information secret for so long before the public needs to know anyway. Otherwise it'll be 30 guys who were in on the forum discussion and no one else.

And saying that the Darvalls and Chudleys couldn't sign on even as allies? Come on! Get serious. Lots of those people are already card-carrying members of the CMS. Tyler Whitney0 00:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Try posting in the "Join the CMS" section, as it says on the wiki page. They can be allies, if they follow the channels, we need to know who are allies are, and have a place to talk to them. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 01:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah

I'm still not seeing much planning being done on the forums. Unless I'm looking at the wrong forums. So I'm going to take that as a license to add links to the plans myself and a few others were working on to the CMS wiki page. If you feel they should be deleted please give me a chance to defend them before doing so. I'll try to keep them unobtrusive and they'll mostly just be links to new pages. Tyler Whitney0 21:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

More CMS Cleanup

You absolutely have the right to edit down all the nonsense I've been adding, but I've only been adding so much because I didn't see much else being done. It's, of course, about time the forums became active again (I think I saw some tumbleweeds). I would ask that we dig up again those strike groups I was trying to organize. I very sincerely believe organized strike groups were missed in the other sieges of the mall. A couple dozen individual player and a few groups had signed up for them so they definitely have a right to a place on the wiki. Even if it's only as a link to the group sub-pages I was planning to create once they got large enough. These groups are going to be especially necessary if we draw Shacknews or the other uber-organized hordes back.

The sub-pages I had planned to make once they were justified would have been built on the DHPD and RRF models. This would have given the groups places on the wiki to discuss and organize. Thread discussions don't allow for the up front organization. The illusion of secrecy with forums is also redundant (sp?) nowadays since spying has become almost universal. Survivors spy and post on zed forums and vice versa. Sometimes they know the spies by name. Just look at the mess that the RRF and NMC forums have become. The Shacknews intelligence services famously know what's going on inside their targets as much as the survivors do. Lots of people also don't get into the forums for any number of reasons. I was basically trying to move us away from the mob mentality we've all been victims to in the past. You might also want to revise the page so that all the links going to different CMS forums go to the same forums. The one in the sidebar at the top doesn't match the one further down the page.

Here's hoping we see the rebirth of those massive "cades up" and "cades down" threads we all heard about in stories and songs from the first siege. Tyler Whitney0 05:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually as one of the admins of the forum I am actually allowed to do whatever I want on that page. You my friend I have never seen. As far as I can tell, you are not following any voting or CMS policy. You have no right to touch the page without permission from the group. The group's everything is set on the forum. The design you had was against the CMS model. If you think you for the CMS you should shut up as I've not seen you before you change the CMS page without authorization. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 04:04, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Ninja...

No, its simply acknowledging that im a Pistol Ninja ( im too lazy to add to the archive) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ShinobiSlider (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Which is a good thing. Touching another user's archive is vandalism, period. –Xoid S•T•FU! 06:33, 15 September 2006 (BST)
I was refering to the description etc... but ok. As for the archives, I randomly make them and will likely randomly delete them now, updating the talk page is what you should do (perhaps I should stipulate better, I understand what you are thinking. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 13:49, 16 September 2006 (BST)

Gold Blade at the Prom…

…otions page, that is. Have you seen the most recent occurance on M/VB regarding him? He asked to be banned because his machine was hacked. I shudder to think what would happen if he were granted sysop powers and the vandal that hacked his machine got a hold of them. Other reasons include his lack of experience and the fact he has done nothing for the wiki. –Xoid S•T•FU! 13:32, 29 September 2006 (BST)

I have another reason: The other day he was crying because there is a MOD CONSPIRACY to ban every user from the wiki.--Thari TжFedCom is BFI! 13:52, 29 September 2006 (BST)
Damnit, now he knows. I'll have to ban both of you. –Xoid S•T•FU! 15:11, 29 September 2006 (BST)
I just want to see a wild card sysop, it's just a kind of weird thing I have not see the problem, in generally I feel the whole place is messed up and solutions to new problems sometimes also fix old ones. I love it how I explain every vote I make to someone, maybe I am being a rebel for the fun of it (most likely case)--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 21:55, 29 September 2006 (BST)

The Last Call for Liberty

Your pledge to the V for Ridleybank cause has not gone unheard. View the last words of Codename V at the 5th of November page before the liberation of Malton's heartland. I have spoken once more to rally and excite you in this time of vengence! --Codename V 04:59, 13 October 2006 (BST)

How's Caiger Holding?

Well, the title says it all really. I'm thinking of heading up there with my volenteer based group, Power For The People. On the third, I recieved a message saying that Caiger needed help. I just wanted to know if it does, or if that was a lie. If it's doing pretty good, or looks like it might not live to see another day, I might take a right and head into Ridleybank.--Labine50 MHG|MEMS 05:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

It's holding. We need help, but we're alive. More people would be AMAZING. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 05:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm in Wykewood (SP?) so I won't be there for a bit, but you can definatly expect me around the 11th or 12th.--Labine50 MHG|MEMS 05:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
GREAT to have you onside. The more the merrier. --Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 23:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Let's get to work!

I've been trying to do as much as I could. Everything I've done so far was what I thought would be for the CMS' benefit. Being a member of CMS and CMS meta longer than me (I was in the past 3 sieges but never committed myself to the group until now) I'd be happy to hear what you'd be willing to add for what's to come. Tyler Whitney0 03:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I've been present for 2 sieges personally. I am however willing to say that the best defense is organization. We have many different ideas, and I would suggest you join the Caiger Mall Survivors forum and add your own experience. We are a strong force, and willing to fight, perhaps your own ideas and manpower can be used in the retaking (which I assure you WILL happen). However, no plans are posted on public forums at this time.--Agent White WTF•W!•SGP•CMS-Meta•CMS 04:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
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