User talk:Aichon/Other/So you want to be a sysop?

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All of this text was copied from the Discussion Area that used to be on the main article's page, back when it was over at User:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo8.

If you're an RC stalker (or an Aichon Sandbox stalker...creepy), feel free to add comments here, since I have the talk page redirected. This page is a WIP and is nowhere near completion. I still plan to add a list of janitorial work they could be doing, some more points to the various things I already listed, and a checklist of things they should look at before nomination.

It will not be an official document, just something I'm putting together that I can link whenever someone says they want to be a sysop. I'd find it more valuable, however, if it reflected not just my own, possibly misguided, opinions, but also the opinions of others, that way others could point to or refer to it as well. So...yeah...feel free to add your thoughts. Aichon 23:33, 26 October 2010 (BST)

I liked it better when it had the vague, abstract "Ask yourself" point. That's a good litmus test - anyone unwilling to take a joke as a joke or ignore silliness really isn't the best candidate. Nothing to be done! 23:42, 26 October 2010 (BST)
That was actually an incomplete sentence that I got distracted in the middle of writing. :P That're honestly right about that. Might be worth re-adding something like that later. I'll see how it develops. Aichon 23:46, 26 October 2010 (BST)

Okay, I'm soliciting feedback now. Any suggestions for changes or additions? I'm not sure that it's done, but it's late here and nothing else immediately comes to mind. Aichon 09:05, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Good call on featured articles. I'd summarise a few key points from the criteria here (minimum 2 months, X edits) --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 10:01, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Added quite a bit regarding the five criteria. Thoughts? Is there anything you guys disagree with, speaking in regards to the whole thing? Aichon 06:42, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

This is amazing. It's The Sysop Janitor's Handbook in the flesh! -- LEMON #1 05:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

So I take it you like it? If not, let me know what could be improved or changed. While it does say at the top that it only reflects one person's opinions, I would like those opinions to be as informed as possible. I've just gotten tired enough of seeing people ask these questions that I figured I'd make a one-stop page for all of the answers related to this type of stuff. Aichon 05:07, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Oh, and I figure your Handbook would be more for newbie sysops, whereas this is more for prospective sysops. So you still need to write it. :P Aichon 05:09, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
I've actually had that sitting on the backburner for a few months... Although my idea was more "janitor" than sysop. Anyways, seems nice. I might have missed it, but you might want to add something about watchlisting administrative and voting pages.
Incidentally, I'm not one of your "inactive sysops", am I? ~ Red Hawk One Talk | space for lease 07:53, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Nope. Not at all. You certainly don't have less than 500 edits in the last six months, as the ones I referred to do (not that I mind that they do, since they're still good sysops, though I would certainly prefer that they were more active). And I'll mention those specifically, since right now I only mention paying attention, but never said to which pages specifically. Aichon 10:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I haven't had a chance to read the other comments yet, but I've read the guide and it looks good. I'd give a quick mention to Badge as Authority in point two of what a sysop isn't though, as the way it stands currently, it looks like sysops can "give their opinion in an official capacity" on unofficial matters, and will thus be far more important. Another thign is that you don't list suburb news archival in your janitorial tasks list, which is a really good one because it provides lots of quality edits, takes a lot of time and is rarely done. I used to do it, but I just don't have the time nowadays. Other than that, the guide looks really good.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 12:16, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Ooh, good point. The wording there could definitely use some work since it could be misinterpreted that way. I was just trying to say that sysops can act in an unofficial capacity elsewhere than on admin pages, such as when handing down a ruling, but it definitely does sound like they could say, "my official opinion is that this suggestion sucks," and have it be more important than someone else's opinion. I'll see what I can do about that. And that's a great one to add. I'll put it on the list. Aichon 18:57, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Nah, I saw what you meant. The current state is much better. :) --Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 20:14, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm not an op here and don't aspire to be one. But I've been an op on a different wiki and have followed the admin pages here for many months now. And from that POV, I think it hits the nail in many, many regards.
I especially love the clear-cut list of exemplary janitorial tasks and the dissection of the promotion criteria. (In fact, I think the actual promotion criteria should be updated, as the numbers are completely off in practice, but that's a proposal for policy discussion... And I'd probably link to this sandbox page, so I'd first want to know that you'd be happy with seeing it more prominently linked, and thus seen and commented on by more casual users.)
Now the only thing lacking that is essential for an op, but tough to access for a newb is precedence of previous rulings, as that knowledge can only be accessed by trawling through reams and reams of A/VB, A/M and A/A pages (or watching current cases and hoping that the better part of precedence gets used). But a definitive list of that would probably be more work than it's worth. (In fact, I think Yon had once started to work on such a list and given it up.) -- Spiderzed 15:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I actually haven't given it up, I did a bit more which I didn't upload to the wiki, but it seemed utterly pointless because nobody wanted it.--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 16:58, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Figure the problem is more that those who are active enough to notice such projects via RC are those who don't need a precedence catalogue anymore, while those who'd need it aren't aware that such a thing exists or is in the process of being created. For aspiring ops (as most recently Dez), such a list would probably be a gold mine. -- Spiderzed 17:49, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I had actually thought of adding a precedence list, but as you said, it was more trouble than it was worth. If Yonn had one posted though, I'd be happy to link it from here. I think the thing we all had problems with before was his idea of a definitive rulings list, which would dictate future rulings (even though that's not what it was, it sounded that way at the time), but having a page that merely links to a lot of past cases that are still getting used (just trawling through the last year of A/VB archives and pulling any precedent links should be a sufficient start) and offering a one-sentence summary would be a great thing to have for reference.
As for linking this from elsewhere, I was planning to move this from a sandbox page to a named page within my space once it got completed a bit more (probably User talk:Aichon/Other/So you want to be a sysop?). I'd wait until I put it there before linking it from elsewhere, but I don't have problems with other people seeing it. I just don't like spamming around like crazy to advertise this sort of thing. Aichon 18:54, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
OK, I'll whip then some more accurate criteria text up tomorrow and suggest in A/PD. The link would anyway just be cursory and hidden in the continous text of my reasoning for the policy change, rather than put up in blinking hot pink size 96 text as "ZOMG LOOK AICH HAZ SISOP HANDBOOKZ C'MON GUISE REED IT". -- Spiderzed 19:15, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, if you're gonna do it tomorrow, I'll just move this page over there now, that way you can link something that will be permanent. I'd hate for the policy document to be archived as linking to something that might be some funky template test page next week. Aichon 19:34, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
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