User talk:Karek/20080318232950

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Both myself and Cyber have accepted you as an Arbitrator, thanks for this :) ----Ash  |  T  |  яя  | 17:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm gonna be starting in a few seconds.--Karekmaps?! 17:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

winnar --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 17:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the ruling, it's what I expected to say the least. However, once again the above post shows the foolery of Cyberbob. I'd like to push a counter claim that he ignored rule 0 of trying to solve it out between the both of us first, and also a counter claim that he started arbitration for pointless reasons. I'd also like to push that Cyberbob does not contact me over the wiki, as I see him only trying to cause more drama. This is evident in not only the above posts, but the one's on the Arbitration page.
Also, as a side note. I know you believe that I was fishing, but I swear, I hold nothing against that group. I want my comment about CGR off record, but the rest can be pushed.
Thanks again for doing the Arbitration! ----Ash  |  T  |  яя  | 17:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I lol'd --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 17:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I expect that if he does contact you you remove it from your page without replying, if it's meant to cause more drama. If it's on your user page it's full well in your right to remove it for whatever reason as it's an owned page. Same holds true for group pages thanks to this policy. Technically though, he did try to solve it by removing it instead of continuing the argument and you pushed the issue by continuing to reply regardless of his desire to simply drop the matter.--Karekmaps?! 17:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry Ashley, there isn't much chance of me wanting to talk to you. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 17:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Thats always a bonus, your a prat. Now then, and I say this in the most friendly was possibly, it's new year's over in Australia! Go out and get yourself drunk already!----Ash  |  T  |  яя  | 17:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Why don't you? You've been spending a lot more time and effort on this thing than I have. Why not do a little practicing of what you're preaching? --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 17:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
It's new years everywhere but China. Now please don't make me start deleting comments, I really would prefer not to have to.--Karekmaps?! 17:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I am, I'm going out in 3 hours (9PM GMT). No point starting a party ages before new years eve, you'll be pooped by the time it hit's midnight. Oh, and as for Karek deleting comments, I really dont think this is arguing. This is actually friendly banter :P ----Ash  |  T  |  яя  | 17:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
It's midnight somewhere, it's always midnight somewhere.--Karekmaps?! 17:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Fair point, but I cant go out at 2PM because it's midnight in country X, people'd consider me mad... Or at least madder than I currently are.----Ash  |  T  |  яя  | 18:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

yeah i saw that after i moved things around, i then tried to undo but ya beat me to it.oh well next time. --'BPTmz 17:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Just call me quick draw mc'karek.--Karekmaps?! 17:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Do I have to?--'BPTmz 17:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
The alternative is daddy.--Karekmaps?! 17:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes sir Mr. Quick Draw Mc'Karek.--'BPTmz 17:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Daddy!-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 17:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Ma!--Karekmaps?! 18:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

RE. Female v. Male Ashley?

Lol'd. The English people invented the English Language*, not the Americans. Ashley is a male name, apart from in America where they decided to change things around slightly :p

In England, Ashley is the male way of spelling the name and Ashleigh is the female way. I found it pretty weird that they couldn't just adopt a universal way to spell the name as well.

  • =Well, really we stole it from several other languages but you know, thats not the point.
Ah but that's English, it's all stolen from other languages.--Karekmaps?! 16:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
But do you not speak English? :P ----Ash  |  T  |  яя  | 17:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Speak yes, enjoy no.--Karekmaps?! 17:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
My point exactly! English is one of the most complex (apparently, I've never had a problem with it personally) languages. Look at the words Hole and Whole, Lead and Lead, Tomato and Tomarto... Wait, disregard that last one. I'm sure you understand what I'm getting at----Ash  |  T  |  яя  | 18:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't say it's complex, I'd say it's over simplified. They attempt to come up with a way to describe everything, a unique way, and in doing so it kills the meanings of most words making them translate only a definition and not real meaning, emotion, etc.--Karekmaps?! 18:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Your bug report

Hi again, I attempted to fix the bug you reported in my script (see talk page). I hope it works, thanks. lɐʇɹoW-t-script 16:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Your suggestion

Hi there, I implemented your suggestion in my script (see talk page). Thanks! lɐʇɹoW-t-script 21:03, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Full of cookie goodness

Thank you for the cookie. By new I assume you meant recycled. Anyway. Thanks. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 15:46, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

How dare you!!!

How dare you make my template useable and noninsulting!!!

Secruss|Yak|Brahnz!|CGR|PKA|800px-Flag of the United States.svg.png|EMLN|Templates|RRF|RFTM|Crap|WHOZ|Evil3.gif|MU|GN|C2008|Chippy.gif|22:41, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

My vote?

I'm just wondering what made you laugh? It was either my "hug wood" comment, or my contempt for Hordes. I'm all for people giving me their opinions. For the suggestion itself, I'm really on the fence between keep and kill. I know that barricades suck for zombies, because I have a feral zombie alt... and I also realize that Hordes are a result of the necessary zombie metagame. Ah, I guess I'm just looking for an elaboration. Thanks --Ryiis 16:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

The hordes comment, claiming that a mass of weak players is overpowered is the same was saying someone shooting 10 bullets is an autokill. No horde can win at a 1:1 ratio. --Karekmaps?! 04:18, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the template

I was working on cleaning up the Talk:Suggestions page a bit using that template you provided me for moving discussions. I was just wondering what the policy is for discussions on suggestions that have already been removed from voting (Specifically, Suggestion:20071216 Vodka, which was spaminated but whose discussion is still on the talk page.) --PdeqTalk* 01:10, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd add the discussion there as a sort of archive, but it should be removed from Talk:Suggestions unless, it was added after voting. --Karekmaps?! 01:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


It's a part of my jihad against specialpages; but okay, I'll not put it up for deletion unless there's no content on the page, like "Delete this please" or something, or unless the deletion queue is empty.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  00:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal Question

I noticed you put the removal template on Suggestion:20071218 Dangermap Colour Tweek (since it has been removed by the author), but it still appears on the Current Suggestions list. I'm not quite sure how to remove it (by striking it, removing some templates or what) or even if I'm allowed to or if that's reserved for the author and sysops, so I'll leave it to you to fix, or let me know what to do and I'll fix it (or bother the author). I hope that makes sense. I do tend to ramble sometimes. Nice image at the top of this page, btw. --PdeqTalk* 07:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see I have to put that : before the word Category in the link. Sorry about that, hope it didn't cause too many problems for you. --PdeqTalk* 02:45, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I need your vote

You are very welcome to look at this suggestion (that you helped to create) and vote for (or against) it. -- JohnRubin 11:13, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


I agree that putting toggle on something so those who don't like something can ignore it is a way to avoid arguing with the people who don't like the idea... Radio's do not use IP hits and nor do Groans should they be taken out? Of course not, flavour is not to everyones taste and many people do not bother with clothes should they go? Again no... Such things may add nothing to the game for some but for others they range from being slightly fun additions to vitally important parts of their gameplay. Something that may be hated by some but loved by others benefits from a toggle and if it gives those that hate it an opt out and will not affect balance then what reason is there for kill? Lots of things would benefit from toggle and a lot of things that have failed in the past might have passed review if they were ignorable. The fact of the matter is that Kevan recognizes that we don't want to keep picking up and dropping the same items over and over; he also recognizes that some of us hate the radio, don't care about old groans and its entirely possible that a lot of us won't want to see flavour that others do. I say again (apart from opening a setting screen every 3 months or so) what harm does a toggle addition on a suggestion do? --Honestmistake 15:23, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way... I love your page design! *Jealous glares*

Actually, Radios and Groans benefit from the ability to limit whos you hear, not only that but Radio spam has been a big issue in the game, it's part of why the skill for radios was added. Which horde is groaning is useful to zombies in that horde(as opposed to feral zombies which you can reasonably assume broke in alone and by x time the building is done whereas horde groans can tell you you aren't alone and that a reasonable number of zombies are in y place). As for the auto drop function, people were asking for that for a very long time because, in part, of the IP hits which neutered survivors when they wanted to change their inventory and have more than 1 account.--Karekmaps?! 17:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

New Arkham page edit

hey, I'm the author of the recent addition (and removal thanks to you) of the history of New Arkham. As Malton is a fictional city, any history can be made up regardless of how ludicrous. As urbandead is a game i feel humour is appropriate in suburb pages, provided it doesn't conflict with actual suburb information. So rather then just restore my edit, and have you remove it again I figured I'd check with you and find out why you deleted what i wrote. Thanks,--Jed 06:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

You're kidding right? Humor is acceptable, within acceptable boundaries. Cock Burn and Sperm Banks detract from the page, rule of thumb, if you need to cite Urban Dictionary it's probably not in good taste to add it.--Karekmaps?! 14:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
A word in urbandictionary is a word that'll be in the oxford in 5 to 10 years. :) I don't think it detracts from the page, its not there's a comprehensive history of the suburb that doesn't involve Cock Burn that i deleted. So perhaps instead of just criticising you should put a new history up?--Jed 00:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
The community has more power over what gets to be put on a community article than one member. If the community doesn't like it, then it goes. And Karek isn't the only one who didn't like your addition (and nor is me the only other).--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:14, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Cock Burn? What the fuck?-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 00:17, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Cock Burn. --Jed 03:45, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
If I wrote an article on Munging in the suburb history I'd expect it be deleted, Cock Burn is no better.--Karekmaps?! 13:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow wow wow wow wow...don't say things we can't take back...and just so you know i had to look up urbandictionary to get that one :P --Jed 00:13, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I know you did, that's why I chose it.--Karekmaps?! 02:56, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
I felt this was the most appropriate place to post this, just letting you know we're done.--Jed 08:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

RE: Talk:Suggestions

Yes, it's a serious suggestion. And dude, don't correct me, I know a whole hell of a lot more than most people about the military and I know that they DON'T CARRY LIGHT LOADS!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Treviabot92 (talkcontribs) at an unknown time.

Sign your posts please. And in my opinion, carrying around SAWs and such heavy things is a terrible idea in a fast zombie apocalypse. Want to try and run? Yeah right.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
That, and the fact that a SAW isn't developed for accuracy, but for sheer firepower and for a high rate of fire. Neither of those are a needed factor in a Zombie Apocalypse.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 20:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
They also tend to jam.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I'm a bit confused here... We're talking about attacking zombies with saw's coated in jam? No wonder malton fell to the zombies if that's what the army where using.....--SeventythreeTalk 22:01, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Brains just taste so much better when you have jam to go with it. The main reason Zombies attack malls all the time: The jam is in there. Basically it was a containment effort of the military, as long as Malton offers Brains and Jam zombies don't WANT to leave. CharonX 23:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the info about the talk:suggestions thing! I'll be doing that in future.--SeventythreeTalk 15:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey Karek

Just wanted to let you know, yesterday the talk:suggestions page broke, so to speak and refused to display sigs ect. so I moved everything which had passed the 5 day period after the deletions period had been met into the overflow page. I didn't want to delete them entirely as I wans't 100% sure wheter they where deleted or archived. If you want me to move them elsewhere or delete them, just let me know (and where to) and I'll sort it out.--SeventythreeTalk 07:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

If it's more than 7 days old delete it.--Karekmaps?! 08:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


Its good to go now- just plug in reports. The External Military Report Map allows direct comparison of the suburb danger level colors vs summaries of logger External Military reports. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 03:41, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


I was just reading your history section and noticed that you wish caigar to be the human stronghold like riddleybank is to the rrfs. I have one little favor to ask on behalf of the zsg we need more people to make the dream of westgrayside becoming better than caigar well we just got our asses handed to us and would appreciate tif you would help instead of always helping caigar? just a thought.--zink 14:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)ZinkerT!Z!A!R! F ! The zsg,defending Malton since 2007.zinker M! SwitzerC.gif Brainzz p.s. sorry about the spelling i had to type all of this in under about 1 sec so sorry

I gave up on Caiger, that was written back when I had just returned but wasn't quite aware how much of a crap shoot it really has become. Best forget about Caiger and defend another mall.--Karekmaps?! 22:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
understood,Sorry for such a late response--zinker 23:32, 4 January 2008 (UTC)ZinkerT!Z!A!R! F ! The zsg,defending Malton since 2007.zinker M! SwitzerC.gif Brainzz


Sorry about that, just trying to educate the unwashed masses a little bit. And I've noticed you've been using "too" in all the instances that would be covered with a normal "to" all of a sudden. May I ask why?-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 01:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Cause I feel like it(that one has actually been intentional)--Karekmaps?! 01:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Makes sense. LAter man. I got a report to re-write.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 01:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for the advice... I'd originally hit 'enter'... which logged me out. Then I logged back in and remembered to hit 'search'. Maybe there needs to be a policy banning the use of that link?  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  16:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Call me a code-thief

I'm stealing your time dependency template... I'll see how it works out on my page. :D  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  14:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Damn, that didn't work out too well. Ah, well. Awesome work of yours, though. Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  14:47, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Please don't I don't want the potential of being accused of vandalism every time I edit that template.--Karekmaps?! 14:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
It's not really my work, I just copied the code from Metawiki too get a feel for the idea. --Karekmaps?! 14:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Wait a sec...

Does that mean I no longer have to justify when I don't feel like it?-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 23:45, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Read Category_Talk:Suggestions, although I do recommend justifying anyway.--Karekmaps?! 23:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I usually do, but everyonce in a while, you get such a spammy suggestion, like so, that I think the type of vote alone justifies the vote.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 23:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Strike Template

On the suggestion you mentioned, my main objective was to put in the ":" after the "#" so that the line wouldn't be numbered; I just changed the template to the one I was used to using, even though I didn't see anything wrong in the version you used (a bit of a pet peeve, I guess). Oh, and I love the font that you use.
--Z. slay3r Talk  00:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I meant the font on your user page, and this one. --Z. slay3r Talk  05:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm offended!

Like Grim's? I'll have you know sir, that a lot of work weant into making my talkpage way more cluttered than Grims! At least Grims has an organisation system!--SeventythreeTalk 23:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

But the organization system makes zombies cry.--Karekmaps?! 23:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Awww..... And it's so hard for them to wipe their eye-sockets, what with the loss of tendons...... I'll probably leave it be, maybe as a warning to others.--SeventythreeTalk 23:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Any other suggestions?

I have it toned down, I think to the least I can tone it down to. (my signature.)  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  02:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Limited Suggestions -- OK

No problem with tossing in a suggestion tomorrow then. Or next week. Thanks for leeting me leave one in there. (The most amusing one too.)Pakopako 04:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


Link me to one time you've voted 'keep' on a pro-survivor suggestion, and I'll take back my supposition that you're biased.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  04:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Too much work for someone's opinion I couldn't care less about. --Karekmaps?! 04:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


As I took a break from the game, and am still taking my break, how did the 5th o' November go? I don't feel like lurking around here for the answer.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 02:47, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

It failed just like last year. 'cept this time they couldn't claim credit for something C4NT did well after.--Karekmaps?! 03:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


The reason why it's between a survivor and a block is because it's a smell. A scent. Not an event. The scent stays in the block after the survivor leaves. The reason why it only shows a direction and not a distance is that when you follow to the block where the scent leads, there will be a fresher scent telling the next direction. Then you follow that and there's an even fresher scent. This will lead you to either an unprotected survivor or a safehouse/entry-point. The reason why I'm replying here instead of the suggestion is that I've already RE'd way too many votes there :D.--Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 17:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Meh, don't worry so much about logic, not everything needs to be done the way that makes sense. Precedent is more important and there is currently nothing that I can think of that a user can do that is focused on blocks and not users, it's not graffiti after all, it isn't as overpowered x-ray like if it's between user and just makes more sense. After all what happens when you follow the scent a block only to run across a completely new and different scent, it will cause problems. --Karekmaps?! 17:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
A completely different scent will cause absolutely no problems because you didn't know whose scent it was in the first place. The only difference is that the scent that "overwrote" the first one is newer and thus more likely to lead to an online survivor who will more likely be outside than the owner of the original scent. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 17:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
No, it causes problems because you get led in circles following ever disappearing infinitely new scents and have near 0 chance of finding anything but an entry point. You get led in circles and after moving 1 square you already lose the scent you wanted. --Karekmaps?! 18:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
There is no way of getting led in circles unless there are active survivors actually running in circles. The point is that you're just trying to get to a survivor. Not some specific survivor, just a survivor. You follow the survivor exactly the same path as he went. If someone crosses that path, you start to follow that survivor on the exact same path he went. And because he crossed the other fellow's path, it means he was at the block more recently than the person you were following in the beginning. Every time someone crosses the path you're following, you're getting nearer to somebody. You might end up outside an entry-point, but entry-points are by definition at or below VSB and often inhabited by people.
If the scent is very strong (ie. less than a minute old), there is a good chance that the guy who left it is still outside, probably killing some helpless offline zombie. If the scent is older, then the chances of finding are pretty slim, but you don't have to start following an old scent, they're mainly for the wander-part of the suggestion. Just like you don't have to start attacking an EHB building, you can use a couple more AP to find a VSB or even lower. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 18:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Exactly what you just described is the issue. Following the new scent when you come across it wastes your time because you can almost be guaranteed you will get led off far from where you are and find nothing. --Karekmaps?! 20:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
So? Then it's just of more use to ferals than others. Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean it's useless. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 06:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
No, it's of no use to anybody. --Karekmaps?! 10:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
No, you just don't get it. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 11:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Pretty sure I get it better then you seem to. If it has a use describe one that isn't negated by to constantly crossing paths that make it near impossible to find anyone in 50 AP.--Karekmaps?! 11:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
As I said in the suggestion itself, this can be used as a "wander around"-function for ferals (which has been suggested separately, if my memory serves me right). Also, every time survivors' paths cross, it is in the zombie's advantage. Do I have to draw you a picture? --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 12:58, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Just to avoid a misunderstanding, I was serious with the last question. I think it would better explain my meaning. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 20:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion Discussion Overflow

Do you think it would be alright to start removing some of the overflow from the Archive, or have you been doing this already? The mainpage has been getting ridiculously big, and the overflow keeps growing too. Thanks and cheers! --Ryiis 17:52, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I've been doing both. Trying to keep it close to a week because we've gotten so many damn suggestions lately, most of which could be deleted but people keep going back and and commenting on them. --Karekmaps?! 01:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


Dude what the hell is your problem? Did I killed your father? Or your mother? -> ObiFireFighter

You make no sense, I can only assume you're here because of the Suburb news posts being deleted. If I removed it it was because it either was obviously false news, not news at all, or blatantly POV.--Karekmaps?! 10:21, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Funny, just because you think it was false news (and let me point this *in your point of view*), wich wasnt (I scouted the suburb) you decide to wipe it out (my mesage and my danger report), also you talk about neutral point of views somewhere in this page, curiously the "zombie views" news and reports are not edited or "undoed" by you, in fact in the same page you deleted my message there was more than one lets say very "zombie viewed" messages,but none of them was edited, it seems that you are not so impartial as you say, but whatever... ObiFireFighter
I only do the most recent if I'm going to do anything, mostly never anything more then even a few days old. I don't check everything and obviously you can't back up your addition if you need to rely on my not having completely edited everything off the page. --Karekmaps?! 21:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

re: things that were never said

Funny thing is... I am being a total bitch tonight... And I am actually in a very good mood, heh... But all seriousness aside, I think a recent bout of insomnia and the resultant posting to Brainstock forums finally pushed me over the edge... 'Nuff said. WanYao 05:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Brainstock is bad, best to avoid the place. --Karekmaps?! 06:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


I was hoping everyone would leave the tag open. Why must everyone ruin my fun? :'(. Even if it is technically page breaking...-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 01:52, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

But, but, but I couldn't read my stuffs. :( --Karekmaps?! 02:00, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
*Sigh* I guess thats a reason to do it. But you never saw me modifying your talk page code when I couldn't read my stuffs on the page...;).-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 02:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but here that's the point, makes people work to read my shit.--Karekmaps?! 02:20, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


Now...I wonder if I'd get busted for blanking his user and sig pages....:)...Nah, better wait awhile....-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 09:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. But, banned users pages are usually locked I believe.--Karekmaps?! 09:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
This edit, where you alerted me of Ahrimmagicks bannage. Which made me jump for joy in my mind! And if you go to his page, it hasn't been protected yet...-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 09:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I meant the blanking. No point in bothering doing it cause he's permabanned, and I didn't see you having done anything in the page histories.--Karekmaps?! 09:56, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'd blank it because I don't like him, nor do I like how he left half my sidebar code exactly the same. >:|. I doubt he even knows what RTS stands for. And I was wondering out loud if I should do it or not, not implying that I already had.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 10:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah, doesn't matter, he admitted he was 11 didn't he? --Karekmaps?! 10:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

A/D Move Thing

I noticed that you wanted to move What we do to a subpage of the Sociopath apostles. While you are correct, this can be done more efficiently by posting the request on A/MR. --Z. slay3r Talk  23:33, 25 October 2007 (BST)

Completely forgot about A/MR. Thanks.--Karekmaps?! 23:34, 25 October 2007 (BST)


hey karek, at least we can agree on one thing eh? ;). The man 12:00, 24 October 2007 (BST)


I had no idea. :/--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:23, 24 October 2007 (BST)

Actually, he's wrong. If sockem had just had it in the form "# ~~~~", you could've struck it. He did have a nonsensical justifcation, but one was there.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  00:37, 24 October 2007 (BST)
I have NFC what happened there. SOrry man, I thought I put down 4 tildes.  Nalikill  TALK  E!  W!  M!  USAI  00:39, 24 October 2007 (BST)
It's how it has worked for the last year or so.--Karekmaps?! 01:05, 24 October 2007 (BST)


It's nice to see we agree on something. --Akule School's in session. 23:54, 23 October 2007 (BST)

Something I said?

Hey there karek. I'm curious as to why you felt the need to remove my message on the Pennville page. You may not have appreciated it, but courtesy would be to contact me directly and discuss it, rather than your unilateral decision to wipe it. Are you a mod of the board? Did I break some official rule? If so, please let me know. As far as I'm aware the wiki is for everyone to contribute to, even if some views don't necessarily agree with others. MoyesT RPM 09:14, 19 October 2007 (BST)

Suburb pages are Neutral Point of View pages, so if I removed an edit it was probably because it wasn't neutral. If you'll link me to the history of your edit I'll go into more detail about why I removed it if you wish.--Karekmaps?! 19:22, 19 October 2007 (BST)
NP, link is

I was merely trying to encourage survivor groups in my suburb not to go on the Urban Dead webpage and stir up bad feeling. A few bad faith posts over there caused the Feral Undead to band together and destroy Fort Perryn, which as you are possibly aware has had an adverse affect for survivors all over Pennville. Thus I would say my post was justified, as it was hardly inaccurate or even biased. Possibly the tone of my post was too jovial for your taste? I'm only guessing. But please enlighten me as to why you chose to delete it. Thanks. MoyesT RPM 22:33, 19 October 2007 (BST)

It's not actually news. As for forewarning, TRF are at it again on the FU boards, this time taunting them with Creedy.--Karekmaps?! 22:44, 19 October 2007 (BST)

Help with userpage error

Hey karek, I understand you're not to shabby on the wiki. So I ask, can you please help me with the wiki-code. I just updated my userpage in a big way - problem is the searchbar on the left moved down unde the page. I have no idea why. Could you do me the biggest favour and just give me your 10 cents on the subject? Thanks beforehand --  Karth  FoD 02:08, 18 October 2007 (BST)

You need to close your tables, I'll do it for you, simple fix, I used to have that problem on my user page.--Karekmaps?! 03:10, 18 October 2007 (BST)
Thank you very much! You've made my day! I owe you one. --  Karth  FoD 03:21, 18 October 2007 (BST)

Removal of important information from Fryerbank wiki page?

My main question is, of course, why?

Why would you do that? Unlike the reasons you put forward to explain your deletions (IE: That this was a drama, that we were simply making accusations, or that this involved "groups" that we disliked) ... there was no drama, no accusations, no "groups" that even existed to be disliked ... there were simply facts, painstakingly gathered by those of us who are actually in Fryerbank, and posted for the benefit of everyone in and around the area. The main fact being that there IS a zerg army (46 profiles belonging to one person) running riot with seemingly nothing done about it, other than to remove any entrys and warnings placed in the october news section.

What was written is what is actually happening, no lies, no half truths, no accusations and no exagerations, and for you to then waltz in and delete the entire lot of it simply because you did not believe or approve was the wrong thing to do.

I have not reverted anything back on the Fryerbank page, i am here to ask you to do so, once again, for the benefit of everyone.

Thankyou. --MK 21:19, 17 October 2007 (BST)--

That's good and all but the issue that is important is that there are zombies in the area, not who controls them. Suburb news doesn't care about but but rather what, if an area is overrun by zombies it's overrun by zombie. If they are from a certain group then they are from a certain group, if you have evidence that they are zergers that's not really news. Why don't you put it up on a seperate page and inform groups in the area about it or discuss it on the talk page, all you do when accusing people of zerging, whether valid or not, on the suburb news section is cause arguments in an NPOV section and spam it with overly long lists. If it were on the talk page where debates and arguments can take place I'd have let it be but it not only being on the main page but it's sheer size is why I removed it.--Karekmaps?! 22:41, 17 October 2007 (BST)
I go into a bit more detail as to why I removed it in the section below this because you both came here--Karekmaps?! 22:41, 17 October 2007 (BST)

Covering up the zerg army at Fort Perryn

Karek - I understand if you want to remove the long list of zerging zeds in the Fort Perryn article - and yes, all those zeds created on the same day are at Fort Perryn - but I don't understand why you would want to cover up the fact that there is a substancial zerg horde at the Fort. The Whittenside and Pennville pages were not at all "spammy", and were stating fact. I firmly believe that Perryn defenders have the right to know that someone has moved their entire zerg horde into the complex as it is blatent cheating and against Kevan's rules of UD.

I have not altered anything back but would ask you to accept that if this is indeed one player cheating in this way then it is not "crap" that you removed, but evidence.

All our allied survivor groups have been notified of the situation and everyone has taken it very seriously and certainly no-one else has attempted to cover it up.

FortressTag.JPG Jensonson About Me The Fortress Talk BOOM TFN TV Promo Join 18:28, 17 October 2007 (BST)

Read up, there are places you can cover how much you do or do not like a groups tactics of decide if people are zerging, or even present evidence for people zerging. Talk pages, for example. You're list was too long and had nothing to do with the Fort itself, it was about the groups and their members. Say the group is there, then maybe mention there is more on the talk page and go into detail about how much you think they are zerging and why there.
But the real reason I removed it, more then anything else was simply that you were obviously asking for a response, you don't accuse someone of zerging and not expect a response, let alone post huge amounts of what you consider evidence(I say it that way because I haven't checked it not because I think you're wrong). It's something they would respond too, regardless of it's truth, and as such should be in a place where they can respond to it, suburb/building news it not that place.
Also a short little rule of thumb, if it's longer then 5 lines it doesn't belong as news because there is no way you would need longer then that to describe the state of things unless you are subjecting it to your views on the matter.--Karekmaps?! 22:41, 17 October 2007 (BST)
Thanks for responding Karek, although I knew you would - you seem very organized in your business.
Like I said previously, I understand why you removed the very long list of zeds from the Fort Perryn Wiki page but still not why the other references to mass zerging (which is very relevant to the status of Fort Perryn) were also removed. I still believe this should be added to the Wiki pages, even if written as "rumours of mass zerging" although we know it to be fact.
I was not expecting a response, at least not from the person behind the cheating, because during our investigation we have already found his contact address and contacted him directly. His immediate response did not come by way of email reply, but instead he acted by changing the profiles of some of the zerg alt zombies, removing links from their profiles (the links that had led us to him) and he had his old Feral United forum account deleted - he had posted 55 times trying to co-ordinate mass zombie strikes but to no avail, so he stopped posting. This coincides with the date that all his alt's were created. The alt's that all sit in Fort Perryn. All our evidence is well researched and documented and I only posted the profiles of the alt's and a brief note of what is happening, ultimately.
I believe knowledge is important for a Wiki site and simply posted the knowledge we had acquired. I have no interest in discussing the rights and wrongs of zerging. Kevan has said it is illegal and so I believe this is useful public knowledge.

FortressTag.JPG Jensonson About Me The Fortress Talk BOOM TFN TV Promo Join 00:01, 18 October 2007 (BST)

The point is there are much better ways to go about it and the way you did it could only lead to problems. You can always go through the history and put it on the talk page or you could add all the information to this page which I assume is for the same guy. I'd recommend putting it on the linked page. You might notice some of my comments on the talk page, those are because I disagree with the claim the user who created the page is making that Perryn wouldn't have fallen without said zerger.--Karekmaps?! 03:19, 18 October 2007 (BST)
I have read your comments on the talk page and now understand that you have a bias towards the zombies cause. Zerging on this scale is a travesty. You may notice that every single member of the Fraternal Sorority of Gender Diverse Maggots removed their group profiles last night. Members of that group were made within 10 minutes of members of the Bitchslappin Ho's. Juicybraindrinker of the Bitchslappin Ho's was listed along with Entrails' Juicybrainsucker in his FU forum profile, before he deleted that a few days ago, after we contacted the man about zerging. It's all very obvious and certainly relevant to the downfall of not only Fort Perryn, but Joachim Mall (which currently has a zerg guard in each corner) and Lumber Mall and I have no doubt that he will not stop at 44 (recorded) zerg's.
If you want to talk stats, Perryn had 300+ survivors in the Fort in October (The Fortress was not present btw, but it was scouted and verified) and that is enough to hold against a large horde. A zerg horde can attack in turn, for 44 zeds (44*50AP= 2200AP damage) and that comes in one damaging burst every 24 hours. Even a large group like The Fortress would struggle to organize a 44 man co-ordinated attack. It's zerging. It's cheating. Of course it is relevant to the downfall of Fort Perryn.
I don't see the point of continuing this discussion with you any further. You have made your view clear.

FortressTag.JPG Jensonson About Me The Fortress Talk BOOM TFN TV Promo Join 21:40, 18 October 2007 (BST)

When it comes to some things yes, I do side with zombies I've never hid that fact nor made it secret. But there are a lot of factors and in the end the only real zergers that are a danger to the game balance are survivor ones, and even then I would have done the same if you had been reporting survivors in the Fort or in the suburb that are zergs. You're over-hyping and overestimating the ability of zergers in this case, by a lot so much that you're laying all the credit for something that was completely legitimate at the hands of cheating as a way to get out of manning up to your groups shortcomings. Also remember that it's one person who can not possibly log onto 44 zombie accounts in the period of time you propose and would be forced to spread it out over the day, it's just not possible without botting.--Karekmaps?! 01:21, 19 October 2007 (BST)


I hoped it would be something like that. Does this mean my Sig is too big or something, or is it ok?--SeventythreeTalk 17:57, 17 October 2007 (BST)

Nothing about your sigs size, although it might involve Revnant's. It's all about length of text and such, and anything in between a noinclude still gets counted. Basically it's not really an issue cause I'm clearing out a shit ton of the old suggestions that haven't been removed but no, it's definitely not your sig's size yours is small.--Karekmaps?! 17:59, 17 October 2007 (BST)
Cool. Thanks again for the help.--SeventythreeTalk 18:00, 17 October 2007 (BST)


Thanks. I am partially intoxicated at the moment, and I did not notice waht I had donr.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 00:02, 17 October 2007 (BST)

Meh, I've done it before and not had that excuse. Come to think of it more things get added to the archive then the right place(the queue).--Karekmaps?! 00:03, 17 October 2007 (BST)

Project Welcome

What was that fer? I mean, Project Welcome isn't spam under the precedents. --User:Axe27/Sig 03:19, 14 October 2007 (BST)

Project Welcome isn't spam because of bias, it's just as bad if not worse then other types of spam because it is allowed and carries the cloak of helping. --Karekmaps?! 18:44, 14 October 2007 (BST)

Toga, Personal Taste or Personal Problem

I wanted to contact you regarding your opposition and further commentary on my clothing suggestion. I know that though I've not had much interaction with you, what little we have had has been less than amicable. Regarding the toga, I just want to clarify what is going on here. Is this simply a matter of not liking the suggestion, or did I, at some point with a reply or comment to you, just really piss you off? I wouldn't think so, but even if that's the case, that's fine; by no means am I challenging your stance on this, asking you to change your opinion or vote, or anything, no matter what your reasons. But I'd like to know where I stand. If this is a personal thing, I'd like to know so maybe we can figure out how to behave instead of reverting to flaming, or just avoid each other if need be. If it's personal taste, considering how much is already in game, how much has been accepted yet still unimplemented, and how much more has been rejected, more eclectic things like togas are just about the only things left to suggest. Just wanted to clear the air. --Slightly Lions 14:19, 8 October 2007 (BST)

It's not personal I just hate everything you like.--Karekmaps?! 14:22, 8 October 2007 (BST)

Old Arkham, WTF??

I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to the wiki lately. But I noticed all this crap the last few days from the White Hand, and GUMBjork and blacklabrador, in particular... Then I just noticed you edits, so I guess *I'm* taking the issue up... but discussing it with you, on your talk page.

First, I'd like to know why you deleted EVERYTHING relating to the White Hand and ROAR the PKs, etc. last month -- both their posts and mine. I don't believe that it all warranted deletion. Much of what you deleted was legitimate News content. Perhaps you were attempting to limit drama? Understandable, but...

Also, I just noticed this:

That's an obvious example of vandalism if I ever saw one...

What I find weird is that you just deleted everything... You made no attempt to contact any of the users involved, there were no vandalism warnings, official or unofficial, in spite of some OBVIOUS vandalism by more than one party. Just a blanket deletion of EVERYTHING. I'm sure if that was the correct way to go about things....

That's all I have to say, really... I really don't want some arbitration and/or vandalism case, fuck that crap... So I'm talking to you instead, just asking what's going on... Thanks. --WanYao 13:00, 3 October 2007 (BST)

Well there are a few reasons for my deleting that. One of which being it was causing edit drama between two users. Then there is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the suburb or suburb news, it's an inter group issue that should have been covered on either the groups talk page or the suburb talk page, not the news. Normally I would have moved it to the talk page but in this case it looked like the discussion was over and done with so it didn't need to be moved at all. Oh and the last reason is that neither side had any proof or evidence in what were posts accusing the other side of "disreputable behavior", that makes it POV, unverifiable, and just plain fucked up. --Karekmaps?! 03:32, 4 October 2007 (BST)
Uhmmm... please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't news of PKings of or by a major local group's members newsworthy? How is it any less so than the news of zombie hordes hitting malls or survivor groups announcing successful retaking of large sectors of a burb? As for this specific thing, fact is this group, The White Hand, are basically being asshats and, as far as we can tell. doing everything in their power to annoy ROAR and start a PK war. Which is fine, they can do whatever they wish in-game. ROAR has been mostly ignoring them, which I expect is why they stepped up the wiki trolling. I just haven't bothered with any of it, and what theblacklabrador did was news to me as of last night. I expect he'd just had enough... But, whatever... All said in done, I am more pleased with the fact that you stepped in and just deleted everything -- more pleased than I am disturbed by the fact that you just blanket deleted a lot of stuff that IMO was valid, including some posts by TWH, too, for the record. You'll notice that when I posted News about the White Hand, I did what I could to keep it quite matter of a fact... Now, as for evidence, ROAR has plenty to support our side of the story, but I didn't post any lately... I dunno, just because I couldn't be bothered, I guess...
But the bottom line of all this is what the heck is NPOV and POV?? As I said, isn't PK news just as valid as zombie or survivor activity news? All of them directly affect the goings on in the suburb... they're all newsworthy, IMO. As long as it doesn't break down into mere propagandising and bullshitting. Would links to screenshots make a difference? I mean it's not like the events were just a random PK or two: it was repeated PKs of several of the members of a significant group in the suburb....
I'm just trying to figure out the what's and why's of NPOV... To avoid further bullcrap in the future. Thanks. --WanYao 10:08, 4 October 2007 (BST)
It's not news, there have been many a debate about whether reporting known pkers is newsworthy, much less reporting a whole group that does not consider itself as such. In the end the purpose is to get people against someone who you think has wronged you/your group, in a case like this one where each group accuses the other of being pkers and lying about the accusation it's just drama that takes up space, clutters up the news, and helps no one. --Karekmaps?! 10:16, 4 October 2007 (BST)
Well... I think we can agree to disagree. I believe that reporting multiple PKings of and/or by major groups in a suburb is news. As long as there is evidence, and as long as it's not mere propaganda. It's no different than hordes of survivor groups announcing groups, if you consider PKers to be the third faction. I mean by your logic DARIS should never have made the news... Becausec all they did, basically, was publish propaganda and then PK people who didn't follow their edicts... As I said, we can agree to disagree and let the subject rest. Have a good day. --WanYao 16:08, 8 October 2007 (BST)
DARIS did significantly more then that.--Karekmaps?! 03:03, 9 October 2007 (BST)

Hey Karek

You had no right to get rid of that message from Autumn Wind.I will be taking this up with a mod if you do it again.Chill 02:00, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Sure I did, it was reverting vandalism. If you are so concerned about it please, report me as a vandal.--Karekmaps?! 02:05, 1 October 2007 (BST)

My User Page

Wow, that's bright. And impossible to read without selecting all the text. It's funny watching the changes though.. 'arm. 23:57, 24 September 2007 (BST)

It's the second time I've done that one, me likee.--Karekmaps?! 23:58, 24 September 2007 (BST)
Foiled, it's been fixed already! 'arm. 00:03, 25 September 2007 (BST)
WRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYY!!!--Karekmaps?! 00:09, 25 September 2007 (BST)

A Suggestion

You may wish to alter the background color of your userpage/subpages or change the color of external links. Why? Because they're hard as heck to see. Case in point: this page. I can't read any of the links without highlighting them. Don't feel compelled to change it if you don't want to, I'm just bringing it to your attention. Have a great day! --Pedentic 03:26, 21 September 2007 (BST)

I meant to change the link colors a long time ago but never got around to it because I've been busy doing stuff on other pages.--Karekmaps?! 12:15, 21 September 2007 (BST)

Awesome Work

Cookie.jpg A FREE COOKIE
Pedentic has given Karek a cookie for for fixing the MIC and BIC to allow templated signatures.

Truly you have done the wiki a great service. --Pedentic 03:57, 20 September 2007 (BST)

Yay me!--Karekmaps?! 12:47, 20 September 2007 (BST)

All Good

At least from my perspective. That was a very classy post on my talk page. I'm not looking to hold a grudge either. For the record, as far as wiki-editing philosophy goes (and this is certainly debatable, I won't pretend otherwise), my feeling is that suburb pages should be maintained (or left to go to heck) by people with regularly active characters in those burbs. Speaking for myself, I'm not going to go take action of any sort on a suburb page for a suburb I have generally nothing to do with, because whether or not it contains misinformation, it's not something I feel I have enough knowledge of to address. And at the same time, as the Shuttlebank and MFD histories/talk pages will show, in burbs where I do have experience, I have inquired after and deleted survivor groups whom I had not seen around in some time. Anyway, I appreciate the post, and offer a respectful Barbecue wave. And if the RRF ever visits Shuttlebank again, I do hope you'll try the local Barbecue : ) --Barbecue Barbecue 02:12, 13 September 2007 (BST)

Will do. Also I stopped bothering with suburbs pages because it's just too much of a hassle, so I generally stick to the Ridleybank page or wherever I happen to be spending most of my time.--Karekmaps?! 02:41, 13 September 2007 (BST)

Dupe Votes

I dont' see any problem with striking out incorrect votes. Dupe votes require a link and I think some voters are just too lazy to bother (no offense). That having been said, your right that it is up to the vote tallyer (is that a word?).--Pesatyel 02:42, 12 September 2007 (BST)

It is not, striking out incorrect votes are fine, but link-less dupe votes have been accepted as correct votes. It's simply an unstated request for a later voter to provide a link. One link on the page and all dupe votes are considered valid. And tallyer is not a word, however tallier is. ;) --Karekmaps?! 02:51, 12 September 2007 (BST)
On a related note: 'mabey' isn't a word, and 'maybe' is. ;) 'arm. 03:07, 12 September 2007 (BST)
That would explain why I get those little red bars so much. I still like my way better.--Karekmaps?! 03:59, 12 September 2007 (BST)
I always wondered why you spelled it like that.-- dǝǝɥs ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 11:08, 12 September 2007 (BST)
On an interesting note I also used to make the same mistake with defense and offense. I blame it on English being my first and third language.--Karekmaps?! 20:56, 12 September 2007 (BST)

DEM Roster

Before the primary deletion the copy may have been subject to Crit 1 (duplicated elsewhere). Now however, it should be able to live out its life in the serenity only found as a user subpage. --Max Grivas JG / M.F.T. 03:26, 11 September 2007 (BST)

Something I'm saving for easy access in the future

That's right, I'm talkin' to myself. Anyway me, if another trade suggestion comes up this is the dupe list Dupe(Generosity), Dupe(Fair Trade V2), Dupe(Zerg-Free Trading), Dupe(Trading System), Dupe(Trading), Dupe(Trade:_Smoked's take), Dupe(Money), Dupe(Store), Dupe(Storage Trunk), Dupe(Trading).--Karekmaps?! 20:59, 6 September 2007 (BST)

You could just add that list to The List - that way your hard work is more likely to be used and seen by other. You may even stop someone from suggesting another 'Trade Suggestion'. 'arm. 03:10, 12 September 2007 (BST)
Karek said:
:Actually, this is pretty much exactly the thing you should take my word on, there are few people who are more qualified to tell you that zombies killing Combat Revivers is a rare occurrence, but, since you obviously don't know enough to know that I would be the one in the know, let's do numbers.
Survivors uses 5-6 AP, finds a syringe I can tell you from both extensive personal experience and multiple resources that syringes find rates are 12.5% in an unpowered building and roughly 18-20% in a powered one. A single revive can be between 10-15 AP(and since Brain Rot is actually pretty rare unless dealing with a Select few groups it's more often 11 AP). Killing a Zombie with shotguns will take between 10-16 AP, with searching not included, with a flak jacket it will take 13, if you include search rates it's 5 AP per cartridge of ammo, 20 AP per fully loaded shotgun, Or, more realistically, it's about 12ish AP to get a loaded shotgun, as it's 1 loaded shotgun every 10 AP, partially loaded being half the finds and fully being the other half.And I actually think 12 might be a little generous to the reality, it's probably closer to 9ish..
Right there alone it already shows that syringes are more efficient as you need 5 fully loaded shotguns to kill a zombie, on average, if the zombie has a FLAK jacket or Body Building you won't even get that, and the 5 fully loaded comes out to about 50-60 AP. That means that you're spending 15-18 AP to revive(including searching up the syringes) a single zombie or 50-60 AP(including searching up the ammo) to kill a single zombie. All the difference to the zombie, as far as you're claiming, is 5 AP so why is it worth you spending 30-40 more AP than you have to? It isn't.
It isn't worth it because the difference to the zombie isn't just 5 AP, the difference to the zombie is a lot more than 5 AP, it's 5 AP when headshot, using the numbers Midianian mentioned above it's more than 5 AP for another zombie to kill a zombie. Significantly more as it's about 20 AP to kill a zombie with Body Building and 14 to kill a zombie without it, for a zombie that is. But, what is it to the zombie that's been revived? Well, it's a wasted day most of the time(when overbarricading actually helps) as not all zombies have Free Running, I'd actually go so far as to say the majority do not as it is a survivor skill and the majority of zombies are so low in levels that they were either killed dedicated survivors or have no survivor skills at all. At the very least it's the AP to stand+The AP to enter a building+The AP to free run to a tall building(usually an NT)+The AP to Jump+The AP to stand again. Bare minimum this is at least 1+1+0+1+1, or 4 AP, so even assuming the building you combat revive them at is a tall building that is VSB or lower you only save them 2 AP, such a situation is so rare that it's reasonable to say that it almost never happens, and/or you're a fool for reviving them at an entry point. Even if they have to move 1 square to find an entry point it adds -2 AP to the whole move, and thus making a minimum of 5-6 AP unless you, the combat reviver, is a complete fool. This means that Combat Reviving will have, at the very least, as much impact as shooting them with a shotgun did.
Now, since you love the Death Cultist argument lets poke holes in that boat while we're at it.
As was noted above, killing someone with shotguns, searching included, takes 50-60 AP. But that's misleading, as it assumes common non-flak, which is actually the case with zombies but not survivors. See, survivors can be expected to almost universally have Flak jackets as they are minimum encumbrance and surprisingly easy to find, that adds another 3 AP onto the average kill rate, and taking the same search rates from before that's about 15 more AP. So, to kill a single survivor, the revived zombie first needs to get 65-75 AP worth of ammo, then they have to go through roughly the same thing that a normal zombie does with the movement AP, except now you have to add on AP for locating the combat reviver, or survivors, I'll not do that and stick with minimums again.
Already our friendly Death Cultist has used up 70-80 AP, how woefully inefficient of them, but worse still since they are a survivor they also weaken the horde as a whole because they just lost 5% on barricades, are not absorbing wasteful gun AP, have spent an absurd amount of AP just so they can kill someone, and, most notably, do not provide the interference effect.
Death Culting doesn't hurt combat revives, unless, you happen to be in a building with less than 3 survivors per Death Cultist, which would be something you did to yourself. I've always said it and now I have shown you part of why I've always said it, Death Culting actively hurts zombie hordes.
If none of that helped make my point then maybe this will. Every single combat revived zombie who becomes helpful survivor can make up for 3-4 that don't, the history of the game ratio and the Feral Cloud effect both show that a large number of zombies in any large zombie group will become useful survivors when revived, enough that I can, with full confidence, tell you that 1:3 would be low. Combat Revives are as much a threat to survivors as zombies were unstoppable before the January 23rd update

--Karekmaps?! 14:46, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Karek said:
Complaining about the frequency of updates is weak, it's also baseless.

Indent levels are intentional this is going to be a reply to something but I want to get some sleep before doing the 2005 portion.--Karekmaps?! 06:04, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Deleting News

You recently deleted a piece of News I wrote about keeping things NPOV on the Santlerville suburb page. Deleting other people's contributions in this manner just because you don't like what you read is considered particularly...low. Please explain why you felt it necessary to remove the "offending" item.--Sunil 09:15, 4 September 2007 (BST)

You wrote something in the news that had nothing what so ever to do with news and was based completely on your views of other news posts. That kind of thing should be done on the talk page, I removed it because it was in the wrong section.--Karekmaps?! 13:57, 4 September 2007 (BST)

Stray Bullets

karek said:
Last thing this game needs is better survivor hit ratios, also this would make flares a game breaking item.

Could you clarify what you meant with that, especially the flare part? --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 12:07, 1 September 2007 (BST)

Flares have a small maxed hit rate because they can do 15 damage. If they could fire into a crowd indiscriminately with high chance of hitting someone, survivors would load up on flares to easily clear zombies from buildings. At least I assume that's what he'll say.--Insomniac By Choice 13:58, 1 September 2007 (BST)
Not only that, which was a fairly decent summing of what I meant, but also Flares give 15 xp per hit, fortiounately that is balanced by the way the RNG works and the weapons horrible max hit rate, that max hit rate makes it so that flares are not a great idea for leveling(although they could be a great way to speed level if you have the time to search for a while) If they have a high guaranteed hit rate, be it on human or zombie, it means that they become absurdly good for quick leveling, more so than shotguns are already(at least until you max the shotgun). But yeah, Flares, if they have a higher hit rate, would get the best average damage rate in the game, and considering the RNG that means that they will probably be better than the numbers would suggest.--Karekmaps?! 07:13, 2 September 2007 (BST)
If you had actually read the suggestion, you would have noticed that it clearly states that the shooter will not gain any XP from stray bullet hits. Also, you might have noticed a pattern in the amount of damage I assigned to the stray bullets and deduced that a flare would have caused 9 points if not wearing a flak and 6 if wearing (I added this information later). Less than the normal damage of a shotgun. Also, for the chance of hitting with stray bullets to go over 65%, there would have to be 3250 players in one block. That's almost 16% of the game's daily users packed in one block. Also the fact that the chance of hitting with stray bullets decreases as the number of players in the block decreases makes it impossible to clear buildings with stray bullets. Especially as stray bullets don't exist if there are less than 50 players on the block. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 11:45, 2 September 2007 (BST)
Xp is a small part of it, most of the issue is in the damage, you up the average damage rate of the weapon at all and it is unbalancing, not just 65%, 25% with flares makes them the best weapon in the game and that is already possible, although through an unfixed bug. Also it wouldn't work that way with damage, the damage reduction rates for flack jackets are likely determined through % not individually for each weapon, which means that if the damage is 9 it will either be reduced by 1 or 2, not 3. The chance to get a hit on anyone would go up, also remember that you can't have arbitrary rules that apply in arbitrary situations, it's foolish. So even if you do suggest that no XP is gained from the missed shot I doubt that would be added, and it most certainly shouldn't. You deal damage you gain experience, that is a universal rule in the game already and shouldn't be changed.--Karekmaps?! 12:46, 2 September 2007 (BST)
Are you saying players should be awarded XP not only because they missed, but because they managed to miss so bad the bullet hit their buddy? Most RPGs give XP only from successful actions. Dealing damage does not automatically grant XP, for example damage caused by Infection doesn't give XP and PKing gives only half XP. Stray bullets would be just another special situation which requires special rules, just like PKing. Not arbitrary. In my opinion, it would be less arbitrary than half XP from PKing.
25% would not be enough to unbalance the flare, because the damage it would cause as a stray would be 9. You're also ignoring the fact that a shotgun would have a similar (though not as big) advantage in the same situation. If I calculated correctly, the point where they would actually meet in terms of avg. damage per AP would be in the presence of 3828.8288 players. That's pretty close to 10% of current users that haven't idled out. I doubt there has ever been even half of that bunched up in one block. I can provide the formula I used to calculate this if you want it.
The flak jacket currently reduces exactly 20% (one fifth) in all cases, but it's not arbitary to have a greater soak (33%, one third) in the case of strays because the bullets have less velocity, so they're easier to stop. Also, I wouldn't really have a problem if it did reduce 20% from the damage. I have also been thinking of suggesting this without the requirement for 50 players to be present, precisely because it's a bit arbitrary.
The damages caused by the weapons aren't arbitrary either, they're three fifths of the normal damage.
You might want to check my last comment in the original suggestion to see how common these occurences would actually be. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 15:12, 2 September 2007 (BST)
Let me make it simpler for you. Your suggestion has too many arbitrary numbers and variables. It sucks, it's over complicated and over powered and changes combat for firearms far too much.--Karekmaps?! 03:02, 3 September 2007 (BST)
If a player misses with a firearm, the bullet has a chance of becoming a stray bullet. The percentage is the number of players present divided by fifty. If the stray bullet hits, it causes 3/5 of normal weapon damage. The victim can be anyone in the block, except the shooter and the target. If the victim has a flak jacket, the damage will be reduced by one third. The shooter does not gain any XP from stray bullet hits.
What is so goddamn complicated in that?
As for the numbers, three is too much? The main formula (N/50) has one, which has been selected after careful consideration. The weapon damage is 3/5 (or 60%) of normal, which has also been considered carefully. And then the flak jacket reduces 1/3 (or 33%) from the damage, which was selected because after taking three fifths of the normal damages, all stray bullet damages are divisible by three. All of these numbers are logical and therefore not arbitrary. All the rest is derived and calculated from these numbers.
And did you even read the example? How the hell is that overpowered?! I'll summarize it here if you can't be bothered to read it; 10 zombies, 120 survivors, 115 shotgun shots with maxed skills -> 10 dead zombies, 1 stray bullet. If the shooters had no skills, the result would be; 10 mostly alive zombies, 3 stray bullets. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 14:17, 3 September 2007 (BST)
If you miss you miss, that is how it should be, not if you miss a certain % of the time you'll still hit a zombie but might hit a survivor. --Karekmaps?! 14:19, 3 September 2007 (BST)
Erm, what? --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 15:24, 3 September 2007 (BST)
All suggested gun skills do one of three things. 1)Increase capacity/load rate making them more unbalanced due to requiring less searching and less ap to load 2)increase guns already freakish hit percents making them even more unbalanced due to requiring less bullets to get a kill making the high end for killing more attainable(it is about 7 now with the hit rates unless you get lucky) 3) make what few shots would be misses hit someone, be they friend or foe and thus unbalancing the game because to do anything zombies need to outnumber survivors in any area, in those cases zombies are more likely to be hit by the stray but, ignoring that, it ups xp gain because one of the universal game rules of "If it does damage you gain experience" which holds true even on damage that would be done on a killing blow. In the end all the third one does is what the second one does except with more impact because you have a % chance to hit another zombie in the horde who isn't top of the stack which is a very large plus and a big incentive to using low accuracy weapons, especially considering you can heal any survivors that get hit, a factor actually made worse by your suggestion of lowering the damage done because it means you can fix it in 1-2 AP instead of 2-3 AP.--Karekmaps?! 17:27, 3 September 2007 (BST)
Finally, some rationale as to why you dislike this so much! First of all, I'm not a big fan of the "If it does damage you gain experience" and it doesn't hold true for example in the case of infection. Infection is indirect damage and I think stray bullets are in the same category. You, obviously, don't.
Guns have higher hit-percentages than any other attack, but you have to search for ammo to be able to use them. Thus, they are not directly comparable with other attacks. Stray bullets would make them even less so and I think that's a good thing. I dislike having alternatives which are essentially the same.
I've never really understood why you can't change targets when fighting zombies. It's not like they're standing in a queue. So, I think that the chance of hitting a zombie anywhere in the stack is just a bonus. This might encourage people to keep flares instead of dumping them, but I don't think anyone would actually search for them to be used because of the huge numbers of players present needed to make them even remotely effective, especially as they wouldn't provide XP.
The only places where zombies are likely to be found in larger numbers than survivors, is outside, or holding a building. Killing zombies outside is a waste of AP, unless collecting XP and since stray wouldn't give XP, this wouldn't make leveling any easier.
Making it easier to take buildings from zombies would be balanced by the fact that this also makes it harder for survivors to hold buildings. Even when zombies are holding a building, they're usually fewer in number than when survivors are holding a building, so this nerfs survivors more than zombies in that aspect.
One of the major upsides would be that this would make living in malls more dangerous and make the game less mall-centric.
But as this seems to be a matter of differing opinions on the basic assumptions of the game, continuing this discussion would probably be a waste of time. I just wanted to make sure neither of us had the facts wrong. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 19:24, 3 September 2007 (BST)
A while ago I made a post on brainstock about why zombie anonymity does, and must, function the way it does to provide any semblance of balance. I would recommend everyone tries reading that at least once and understanding why those things are issues. For some of the same reasons hitting zombies not top of stack is an issue, especially when you are hitting with flare guns that deal shotgun level damage and don't need reloading. That being said it does not make living in malls more dangerous, malls have the best FAK search rates in the game and the best ammo search rates. As such they are the best place to hole up if your change is added because any survivors hit are easily fixed and are actually a benefit. It doesn't make it harder for survivors because they hold buildings through revives, not through killing large numbers of zombies. And as for guns, the AP is banked, not wasted, which means that because of how they function they actually are a bonus, searching and stocking on Ammo is a bonus, and the AP used on searching for ammo is not wasted meaning that while it statistically balances out the truth of the matter is it is a massive AP advantage over zombie players, especially because every x ap you use, with a reasonable and regular rate, wastes 6-15 of a zombies AP. Guns win the AP war of combat weapons, specifically shotguns.--Karekmaps?! 19:37, 3 September 2007 (BST)
Well, as you couldn't choose who the stray bullet hits, I don't think those argument in your post would be valid in this, especially in that they would be rare enough not to be a viable tactic in itself. I wouldn't want to abolish zombie anonymity. I wouldn't even want the ability to arbitrarily change targets. I'd want the ability to attack a zombie that is attacking you. But that is outside of this suggestion.
I used the wrong word. Living in malls wouldn't become more dangerous, it'd become less appealing. Even if the wound was healed before you logged in, most people would still consider being hit by a stray bullet somewhat negative. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 07:50, 4 September 2007 (BST)

External Military

Here are first reports i got from there --~~~~T''' 09:32, 30 August 2007 (BST)

External Military, go have a look and feel free to add reports you've caught --~~~~T''' 13:55, 30 August 2007 (BST)

[1] I know mine are actual time for malton time, so the actual times should be calculateable from mine. Seems we have the same first reports.--Karekmaps?! 02:31, 31 August 2007 (BST)


I was a bit worried there! Fundamentalists of any religion scare me.....--Seventythree 12:26, 28 August 2007 (BST)

Dupe of Removed???

What on earth are you thinking? If a removed suggestion can be linked to as a dupe, what is the point of ever removing something? You'd just let it finish voting, with the EXACT same effect (plus more work for the folks who process suggestions). SIM Core Map.png Swiers 14:31, 27 August 2007 (BST)

Wasn't removed when I put it as a dupe, it was still actively under voting.--Karekmaps?! 01:45, 28 August 2007 (BST)
Seems I was wrong, I've stated my views on this on the suggestions page there was no reason why that suggestion should have been removed and why the new one was submitted that couldn't have been included as a note in the first, there is a significant loss of the talk page discussion with the resubmission and considering Kevan made some remarks that would effect voting on the suggestion I'm leaving my dupe vote, at least for a bit.--Karekmaps?! 01:59, 28 August 2007 (BST)
Yes, I guess dupe is the easiest way to handle the case where it looks like the only reason for the re-submit is to force a fresh vote when the old vote was going against the authors wishes. I'd not realised that was the case here. SIM Core Map.png Swiers 16:46, 28 August 2007 (BST)

Headshot Penalty Suggestion

It is a pity that you withdrew your suggestion. It fared quite well. Sure it would make ?rise less useful in mall sieges (which I personally don't mind), but it would also really benefit feral zombies and small groups, like mine. It would also make headshot more useful for survivors. All in all a great idea. I hope you will re-post it soon. -- JohnRubin 14:24, 15 August 2007 (BST)

The Great Southwest

I don't know why I'm asking you in particular, but would you or someone you know happen to have anyone in the SW corner of Malton? I have an alt survivor there now, but he's only level one and terrible for information gathering. At the moment he's sitting in a building in Nixbank, though, because every place that isn't EHB has at least one zombie in it. So does this one, for that matter. And this isn't the only suburb like this. I updated Foulkes Village for the same reason. But as far as I know, there's been no organized group in the area since Extinction pulled out, so I was wondering two things: first, can you or someone you know check some of the "safe" suburbs in the SW to see if they actually still are, and second, do you happen to know who's responsible for the zombies in the area? Obviously I don't expect you to know everything about everything, but you seem better connected than most about the happenings of the city.--Insomniac By Choice 03:31, 11 August 2007 (BST)

I actually can't check on the area with any accounts I have right now because the only one that normally would happens to be in the exact opposite corner of the map, Dulston actually. But I can tell you what I do know from when I was there last. A few of the green suburbs are actually green, unlike many other green suburbs across Malton, but odds are they are closer to the requirements for a yellow suburb. Survivors in certain suburbs like Ruddlebank will ignore any organized threat and sweep it under the rug, as they did with Extinction when they were there(although I wasn't aware they pulled out, surprising considering they seemed very gung ho about New Arkham). For zombies in that area you may be better off asking Chauntie on the Feral Undead boards, I believe he spends considerable amounts of time in the area, and he did when I was there but he may not be able to answer with what you need do to how FU members tend to be less coordinated than anything and focus on playing as ferals. Extinction was the major group down there at the time, but if you are looking for information the New_Zombham_Armah might have some, specifically Munchie on Anyway, last I was there was around Yahoomas, at that time Mornington was survivor friendly and my now CRF alt was attempting to stir up the ferals, I met with a small level of success, North Blythville was zombie friendly but south wasn't. New Arkham was a ghost town but what few people did show up there would be killed by Extinction whenever possible, Old Arkham was survivor populated, but under attack by Extinction, and Folkes Village was mostly abandoned. I doubt overly much has changed, most zombie groups see no point in bothering with the Arkham area because, while it was once an important area for survivors, it has been left abandoned roughly since the times of the Big Bash. If anything has changed its probably Marven being blown over by an angry midget huffing and puffing his way to obscurity. If you are looking for food I would say that SW probably isn't the best place to start. My advice would be forget about Nixbank, as that was one of the areas that truly was in survivor control when I was there, and move south into Folkes Village and New Arkham, both suburbs should have a somewhat modest zombie population. The blythvilles also have had a tendency to be less then stellar in stopping ferals in the past. But anyway, it's mostly ferals, the only two zombie groups I know in that area are the recently made and developing New_Zombham_Armah and Extinction, both groups claimed New Arkham and Old Arkham and I wouldn't be surprised if Extinction kept people in both suburbs due to the sheer number of Necrotechs in the area.--Karekmaps?! 07:17, 11 August 2007 (BST)
I talked to Extinction on their boards and they seem to think that it's the work of their old SW commander who didn't want to leave. Which I interpret as "OMG ROGUE ARMY" and quite newsworthy (you know, like Kurtz from Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now), but a sated curiosity will suffice.--Insomniac By Choice 02:22, 13 August 2007 (BST)
I don't know about any of that, all I know is what I saw when I was down there and there were a lot of things most other groups wouldn't allow. I've actually not seen Hear of Darkness or Apocalypse Now, I probably should get on that at some point. Ragged Robin was probably the most polite of them though, when I was with the Peace Corps he was the only one willing to look for a solution both groups could agree with instead of being a dick.--Karekmaps?! 02:54, 13 August 2007 (BST)