User talk:Vista/archive

From The Urban Dead Wiki

Jump to: navigation, search

Contents

WCDZ

Welcome

Loyal WCDZ member. We now have a media section on our page. Help the human cause by submitting something if you can, so that none can escape the fury of our propaganda machine. --Your shadow lord, Zaruthustra 06:58, 23 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Jak Rhee

Fellow WCDZ Members, witness on the Suggestions page.. our enemy, Jason Killdare, hath returned! --Jak Rhee 00:25, 9 Feb 2006 (GMT)

TheTeeHeeMonster

Hey, what corner of the mall are you in? --TheTeeHeeMonster 20:21, 30 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Imprison Slavik --TheTeeHeeMonster 17:42, 5 Feb 2006 (GMT)

You're never on AIM anymore :'( --TheTeeHeeMonster 02:53, 25 March 2006 (GMT)

hagnat

Probably in the next six hours from now (~22h GMT) i'll be reaching Duport Avenue. --hagnat 16:17, 4 Jan 2006 (GMT)

No problem. I'll just stay there until someone headhot me, or revive me, or both.
I am on destination and waiting for new orders (and a revive). hagnat 22:34, 4 Jan 2006 (GMT)


I was somehow intrusive in your talk page today, but i think you will like it. Look at the flagbox template page if you think something should be changed on that. --hagnat tw 18:48, 10 April 2006 (BST)

Bentley Foss

I'm shambling on my way. I made it all the way to Hoskins Place [58, 3] in Lamport Hills before I ran out of AP today. I should be in Dulston by roughly this time tomorrow. Thanks for pointing me to the revive point--i'll be back later to try to coordinate a time. Bentley Foss 19:36, 4 Jan 2006 (GMT)

http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=205337 - I'm standing there along with five other zombies as of the time on my timestamp, and could use a revive. Bentley Foss 20:21, 5 Jan 2006 (GMT)

NotOmega2

I'm currently working for the highest bidder. If TheTeeHeeMonster don't get me a better offer, my spam mechs will take care of him! Oh, and I'm not Omega2. We never met before! --NotOmega2 22:57, 31 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Squashua

  • Squashua has a very good way of dealing with that, he says what his objective is to change in the game, suggest serveral ways of accomplishing it. and then tells what he thinks is the best solution, so it becomes a 'either this/or that' while the way most post options it reads like a 'and this/plus that' making people uneasy -including me-)
    • Thanks for the compliment. --Squashua 20:39, 1 Feb 2006 (GMT)

Blahblahblah

  • Thank you kindly good sirs of the WCDZ. I will send a representative to Craiger (he is actually already there defending against the Mall Tour '06). He will pledge my undying allegiance to our master the great Lord Zaruthustra, and sign the blood oath required of him (he's a woosie about being cut - it's best to do it before he finishes introducing himself, as that will produce the least amount of struggling). --Blahblahblah 20:59, 1 Feb 2006 (GMT)
  • I have restarted discussion on suggestion alterations. Lets work on getting something established, and added to the rules - so all of us 'usual voters' can be on the same page with this issue. --Blahblahblah 18:28, 6 Feb 2006 (GMT)

AllStarZ

Peer Reviewed class suggestions. AllStarZ 05:08, 7 Feb 2006 (GMT)

McArrowni

I'm not sure this is the right section, as it's not really WCDZ stuff, but here goes. The "example user" from the moderation/promotion page has animated! That is, someone registered under his name and claims to have 3 vouches for moderator... Now before I go all "It's alive!!! ALIVE!", I thought I'd share it with someone, because I have no idea what kind of problems this may cause. (so far, all I know for sure is that we've just lost our example for the promotion page). Oh yeah, and sorry for starting the voting-on-the-example trend, I had no idea it would lead to this... --McArrowni 19:16, 21 April 2006 (BST)

Suggestion Talk

BuncyTheFrog

Hey, I just want to thank you for your help with my duped suggestion today. It saved me a lot of embarrasment (even though it was embarrasing to see my suggestion, but done better and two months earlier). Keep up the good work. ^^ BuncyTheFrog Talk 02:11, 7 April 2006 (BST)

I have to thank you for your aid, and my suggestion visible made. BuncyTheFrog Talk GBP 13:50, 21 April 2006 (BST)

Orator - Dupe Removal

I was under the impression that removal via Dupe vote was under the same restrictions as removal via Spam - either 3 Dupe votes w/o a non-author keep, or when Dupe votes = 2/3 Total votes. If this is so, and as there were numerous non-author keeps, then it was removed in error... --Reverend Loki 22:45, 21 March 2006 (GMT)

Thanks for dropping a line about the info. Although I believed that was the truth, I found the documentation just a bit uncertain - it implied such, but did not outright state it. That might be a good thing to clarify. --Reverend Loki 17:26, 17 April 2006 (BST)

Knife Suggestions

Would you look at and review My Knife Sugestion? I'd greatly appreciate your ideas on the subject. Thank you for your time. --Matthew Stewart 23:34, 21 Jan 2006 (GMT)

I have revised my idea, would you please look at and review My Revised Knife Suggestion? I'd greatly appreciate your ideas on the subject. Thank you for your time and contructive critism on the last idea. --Matthew Stewart 07:05, 23 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Removed Votes

Hi Vista. I am informing you that for the second time, I had to remove multiple votes that you placed on Previous Suggestions. The Previous Suggestions are open for 2 weeks. After that deadline passes, any additional votes that are placed are erased when the page is closed. Please take care in placing votes on Previous Suggestions pages so that your vote is placed before the relevant suggestion page is closed. The suggestion page in question was December 5th, which closed on December 19th and had multiple votes placed by you on December 20th. --Squashua 17:03, 20 Dec 2005 (GMT)

  • sorry, it was still linked under the open section instead of the closed, Pulling an all nighter I didn't look properly. Won't happen again.--Vista 01:05, 21 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Barricades Balanced suggestion

You were correct. The person who made the suggestion erased all the votes against it. I dug them out of the history and fixed it, then reported him on the Vandal Banning page. Thanks for catching it. -CWD 21:08, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)

People-Reinforced Barricades

Yes, numbers are important, but I think that it's okay to let that suggestion pass without specific numbers because Kevan can take care of those details. --Signal9 20:10, 29 Dec 2005 (GMT)

  • I actually have the other view, lets give kevin a mechanic that works, and let him see how it can fit best creatively. I thinks he has the flavor he wants fixed in his mind, and that he looks here for revinement of his own ideas. If you look at John Pyres idea, Kevin took a bit of the mechanics as help. and reworked the flavor. My experience in the creative field -limited as it was- was the same, I knew what I wanted to do, just not how.
that said, I was needlessly aggressive, and edited my comments' tone down a bit--Vista 21:11, 29 Dec 2005 (GMT)
  • I see what you're saying... the numbers are there now, by the way. --Signal9 22:03, 29 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Bile attack for zombies

Really, this is very different from Rot Mold. I was trying to give something for the starting zombies; zombies would not start using this skill until at least level 2 or 3, so they would have to get several hundred XP already before this would help them.

But it is similar in that it gives zombies something to search for.

Also, since zombies can choose where to walk, can remember how to open doors, etc., I don't think it's essential to the flavor to insist that the zombies don't know what they are doing when they search for a source of Bile. But it is your suggestion so you get to decide how it works.

I wish you good luck with this. --steveha 20:36, 29 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Search Bodies

Can you please revote on my suggestion. I edited out the automated bite. Thank you --Zex Suik 20:57, 30 Dec 2005 (GMT)

  • I made a small change to the effect being only on inactive players that have been inactive for a certain number of days. --Zex Suik 21:14, 30 Dec 2005 (GMT)

NT Access Badges

I changed my vote on this skill because of a clarification from Matthew-Stewart. If it requires player vigilance to keep up, I say it's good.. Slicer 00:58, 31 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Grim Visage

Hi there. Just wanted to let you know I made a note on my Grim Visage suggestion that points out it actually shows you if someone is Brain-Rotted better than the game does, currently. It does not make a Brain-Rotter undetectable in the least. Thanks for taking the time to check it out though, either way. -- Amazing 04:02, 2 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Free Running Modification

the other skill nerfs were because headshot was screwing up balance so seriously it was destroying the game. Is this the same?

Dont you see ? People stand inside buildings, moving from burb to burb inside the protection of heavely barricaded buildings dont add nothing to the game. It destroys it !

You rarely see people outside, and most of them are low level newbies who doesnt know how to play the game and get locked outside. Why is that ? because people just sit inside buildings to search and search and search until they are full of ammo and then unload this ammo in an outside random zombie nearby. Then they move back inside and start to search for more ammo.

Making people having to walk outside when they need to make long travels wont cause any harm to the game, instead it will do good. --hagnat 01:27, 3 Jan 2006 (GMT)

I guess you are right about this. This is a highly unpopular change. Better place this on the freezer for a while, and see if the growth in the zombie population is due people actually playing zombies or just a vacation effect on most survivor-only players. --hagnat 02:18, 3 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Argus Nole

This is Argus Nole, Im sry if im not supposed to edit your page but I couldn't find another way to speak with you other than the Suggestions board. i see the Graph in your page but what is the Numbers for my suggestion?

Corpse Discernment

I changed the suggestion to the voters' liking. --Slicer 00:24, 6 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Re: Your recent comment on the NT suggestion

Please don't vote if you don't understand the suggestion. Similarly, please don't vote if you don't understand game mechanics or balance. --LibrarianBrent 17:19, 7 Jan 2006 (GMT)

  • I'm going to close my eyes and sing "la la la", because I seriously can't believe you directed this at Vista. --Slicer 17:23, 7 Jan 2006 (GMT)


Vista, your statistics didn't make any sense. The suggestion would be unbalanced IF AND ONLY IF every tag established some kind of "universal DNA bank". I guess you didn't realize that because your comment says, and I quote, "20.000 zombies a day/ 10 is 2000 free syringes a day." Later, you said that probably only half the zombies would be tagged each day, making it only 1000 free syringes a day. You seem to have misunderstood the basic point of the suggestion. 1000 free syringes a day would only occur if 1000 seperate people each made 10 tags per day, since the number of tags is stored on each extractor, not in an overall database. This is unrealistic in the extreme.
Assuming that it takes 2 AP to tag a zombie (1 to move, 1 to tag), then 1 to create the syringe, these so-called "free syringes" actually cost MORE than real syringes. The current estimate is ~21 searches per syringe. This would take 10 AP movement, 10 AP tagging, 2 more AP to re-enter the NT building, and 1 AP to create the syringe. That costs 23 actions, which, if I recall correctly, is more than 21. In most cases, it would take far more, since in general there aren't zombies in every square around your building, and, if there were, many would already have been scanned. Further complicating this estimate is the fact that, if this WAS implemented, far more players would begin tagging zombies, making it much harder to actually get a successful tag, and thus driving up the AP/syringe even higher. This suggestion would also require teammates to constantly replenish generators in NT buildings using semi-rare fuel cans, which would make it even MORE inefficient.
Since your argument was based on the "fact" that this suggestion would allow less AP to be spent to get syringes, I can only conclude that you either don't understand the game's tagging mechanic or don't understand the suggestion as written. --LibrarianBrent 19:31, 7 Jan 2006 (GMT)

My response

  • My math and reasoning in the vote was indeed a bit rushed, because I found it only a side note in my message, but I'll repeat it more slowly then to make it more clearer.
  • The AP cost
You forget this is not a new add-on to the game. Tagging excist, it already happends. The AP is spend on it already. all this does is create an extra bonus to an action that already is in play. So for every AP spend it now gains something extra. something free the only cost is the time you spend going in to the necrotech building to make 10 counter one syringe. Note two things that he didn't say that the count would disapear after a day(*) and that he didn't specify if the max counter on your scanner would be 10 or more. Most necro's I know are stationed at Necro buildings. and if they are not after this implentation, they will. so the extra cost is only one AP per syringe. if the counter has a max beyond 10 or doesn't have a max at all. they don't need to relocate at all. just pop in when they pass a necro building. So much for the 'high AP cost'.
This hinges however on the presuption that there will be next to no change in the numbers tagging. Otherwise you have the effect of dubble scanning costing more AP. But that won't happen in large enough numbers, why? because as you know the cost is to high compared to other forms of finding syringes. For necrotechs searching is best, and for all other survivors there is the revive clinics for (almost) nothing.so there is little incentive to hop on a scanning bandwagon. So I doubt that the added effect of dubble scan on AP will be enough. Now I could be wrong of course, but right now I think I based this on reasonable grounds.
All I have to say on the generators that every NT building I go into that there is alway a working generator and if there weren't the cost of refeuling would not even be a drop on a hot plate. insignificant.

The Numbers

total zombies is 20.000 and thus the maximum off near-free syringes thus with the magic number 10 the maximum amount of near-free syringes is 20.000
That is a unrealistic number however. Thus as I stated in the orginal vote. I look for a more realistic number. Based upon my experience as a tagger and a zombie I made an educated guess. that about half of the zombies get scanned. My zombie gets scanned about 75% of the time. But as I think that zombies in ridleybank get scanned less I adjusted it downward. It is not a pritty guess, I know, but there is no better data aviable.
so that makes 10.000 scanned zombies devide by the magic number 10 that is 1.000 syringes at 1AP for scanners based at necro buildings or lets 3 AP for those that merely pop in on the way. normally they cost 21 AP, now because every action except paying one AP to make them and perhaps 2 Ap to pop in because every action is already a duplicated action, it already happens.
So it adds resources to the game where you normally had to pay collectively 20.000 to 18.000 Ap's more for, I find that unbalancing, especially as it are syringes.
(*)I do not know how you got that you should have to scan 10 zombies within a day it doesn't say so in the suggestion as I said it is not like as if they disappear when the tag disappears. If 10.000 survivors gain 1 count per day you have 10.000 syringes in 10 days. Now correct me if I am wrong but isn't that a 1000 a day? just an example.
So hopefully I have redeemed myself enough in your eyes and I hope that next time you just ask, gee Vista what do you mean, you've frased it a bit obscure. explain! Instead of jumping to the conclusion that a condensending insult is the best solution. Yours faithfully --Vista 00:13, 8 Jan 2006 (GMT)
I think the difference between your approach and mine is that you seem to think that high-level people use DNA extractors a lot, which I would say as generally false. However, there's really no point in continuing this discussion, because neither of us really have accurate statistics, so neither point can be proven to any degree. --LibrarianBrent 01:17, 8 Jan 2006 (GMT)

The 1 Keep 10 Spam thing

I have no ideas, and unfortunately tomorrow I'm back to Uni. I'll try to work on something and post it tomorrow, if I can get my laptop up and running in time (and if I'm not down the college's bar). Maybe something should be thrashed out on the talk page by various people. --Daxx 00:54, 8 Jan 2006 (GMT)

I think that this is an elegant solution. --Daxx 23:01, 8 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Headshot Revision

Thanks for the insite. You were polite in stating your opinion, and you did make your point. Point taken, by the way. Do you think I should re-submit it, without the options, to clean it from the Kill votes and make people think again, or do I leave it as is? --Monstah 16:19, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)

  • Then I'm happy with my small victory. --Monstah 22:45, 14 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Voting For New Spam Rules

I was wondering if you'd reconsider your vote on the new 7 Spam rule now that mods will be able to easily delete spam suggestions. STER changed his vote as well. I think the limit needs to be raised to 7 from 3 because single Keep votes will no longer be able to save suggestions from being spammed. Without a higher minimum spam votes it'll be too easy to delete a suggestion. --Jon Pyre 17:30, 12 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Fort Fencing Suggestion

I'm trying to recruit votes for the Fort Fencing suggestion I put forward on the 21st. Right now it's tied at 7 Keeps 7 Kills. I think it's one of my better suggestions but I'm afraid it's going to head towards Undecided, or maybe even Rejected. If you could vote on that I'd appreciate it (although if you don't like it of course vote kill). If you have any questions or comments I'll try to answer them. --Jon Pyre 18:50, 22 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Small Surgery Change

Lesse if I can piece my mind together on what I meant...

Right. First Aid nerfs Surgery.

What I meant was that Surgery is exceptionally valueless as a skill as compared to First Aid. It's +5 healing in highly specialized conditions vs +10 everywhere... by percentages, First Aid is a 100% boost, Surgery is only a 50% boost. I really think that if First Aid didn't give so much of a bonus to the heals, that the Hospital/Generator/Surgery combo would be far more worth the effort and time that people put into it. I'd be much keener (and it would make a helluva lot more sense) if first aid was only a +2 hp bonus... or if it only took effect when you used kits on other people... and then Surgery bumped it to 15 total. You'd see a helluva lot more emphasis on protecting and powering hospitals.

I've also found it silly that the healing skills can be used on yourself, not just on other players. If both the surgery and first aid skills were others-only, you'd see the wounded more willing to drag themselves to a hospital for help.

Giving an XP bonus to surgery, based on my point of view, doesn't sufficiently address what I feel to be a balance issue between the bonuses gained between first aid and surgery. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on that, that's cool, but I have Surgery and can count the number of times I've used it on one hand (with fingers left over) while I gained over 600 xp with just first aid/fak healing by just sitting in a mall with shopping/bargain hunting. I guess my view's a little more biased based on personal experience, but I don't think +5 xp is going to make me sit in a hospital when the mall cycle gets easier/more xp and heals more people in the long run. The broken peice is that mall healing is far more prevalant than hospital healing.

Bit wordier than I initially intended, but I thought I'd bomb the whole thing here for completeness and in an effort to be understood. Feel free to quote me on any of this, and feel free to disagree. My opinion may not be representative of the player base as a whole. Timid Dan 14:35, 11 April 2006 (BST)

Dulston

Hey Vista... its your friendly fellow WCDZ-member Jak Rhee here. I'm trying to decide what to do when revived (I died when Giddings fell) and had an invitation to help defend from the Tre Mall. I wanted to know, honestly, how much of a chance does Treweeke really have against the horde? Is it worth my travel or should I head to Caiger where there's a concrete chance of stoppign them? OH and feel free to take a look at the suggestion that I ahve in the early stage of development and comment --Jak Rhee 21:17, 20 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Maintenance Suggestion

Hi, I was wondering if you read the "maintenance" suggestion I put up. It's basically designed to slightly increase the rate of finding fuel and to give away the identities of survivors who destroy generators. I think it's pretty fair, the NT building I live in hasn't had a generator for more than an hour before its destroyed from within. It seemed to be doing well but then a bunch of new names voted against it, I assume hardcore zombie players recruited by Grim S or someone else. So I decided to do a bit of recruiting of my own, and as a fellow WCDZ member I thought the skill might appeal to you. If you want to save it from being killed I could sure use your keep vote, though if you dislike it of course vote your opinion. --Jon Pyre 03:32, 25 Jan 2006 (GMT)


Referral

I refer you to my personal statement on my talk page. Thankyou--Shaft121 16:00, 28 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Field Clearance

It actually would be worthwhile because the map would be centered on your current location, not on the location of the NT building. So if you were between two Necrotech buildings each 8 squares away you'd be able to see a bit of the territory of both and you wouldn't have to waste 9AP going to check Necronet in one of them. --Jon Pyre 14:26, 3 Feb 2006 (GMT)

Maintanance

Some people can't check in every 10 minutes. They might be checking in on lunch break, or just quickly before they go out somewhere. This wouldn't hurt anyone at all. You wouldn't be forced to use or even purchase this skill. But for some people it would be very useful. --Jon Pyre 16:46, 5 Feb 2006 (GMT)


  • I didn't want to add my own section for such a minor thing. You forgot to sign your moderation comment on Zaruthustra's Talk Page, so I "forged" your signature. I hope you don't mind. ^^;; --Mia K (sotss) 14:52, 19 April 2006 (BST)

RE: Ultimate Emote Deluxe

Well, thanks for the comment, but that particular revision isn't my own. Admittedly, it is close to what I was thinking for my next revision, but I was going to wait another day or two for more comments... --Reverend Loki 16:47, 18 February 2006 (GMT)

Flare Suggestion

While it's true that groups that metagame wouldn't need flares it could help others as well. For instance I could announce in a safehouse: "I saw a large horde on Necronet at the hospital 7e 1n. If the hospital needs assistance I'll send off a flare at 70 degrees." That way I could use flares to communicate with people I'm not forum/aim buddies with. --Jon Pyre 20:25, 19 February 2006 (GMT)

Drop it like it's hot 2

What exactly wasn't templated? --Zacharias Cross 21:41, 22 February 2006 (GMT)

30 Cents Riddle

close, but, not quite math. Slavik 23:10, 24 February 2006 (GMT)

The new Windows vista

The WCDZ really is Conquering the world! The new windows operating system is named after you, Part of you bid as the new shadow lord? --Lord Evans W! 22:19, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

Conserve Ammunition: Reload Skill

There are other suggestions but the only two that spring to mind are my heading towards undecided original version of Ammo Conservation and "Redistribute Ammo". The last one put in a new control while this is automatic. I think having a rarely used button on the interface is a bad idea, this is a better solution. --Jon Pyre 05:27, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

WTF, F'er..

Spot me one report I made where MaulMachine didn't edit/remove my own text.

Think before you speak, troll. -- Amazing 18:42, 26 March 2006 (BST)


Look. I'm trying to use this Wiki and the game itself without being consistantly attacked, belittled, and harassed by these 1337 kiddiez. Instead of being able to report someone who checks my Wiki contributions and chimes in/edits/deletes (Even deletes my comments on other people's User Talk pages..) whenever speak to his conduct in relation to me - I get interference from people like you who jump in and give their two cents which - big surprise - is always telling a Moderator not to listen to me or that my opinion/complaints are not valid in some way.

All you and the other five people who consistantly complain that I'm reporting someone's poor conduct too often accomplish is enabling this guy to keep harassing, deleting, and malaigning me. Frankly, I'm sick of it. I don't feel like a victim, but I am feeling more and more like I'm being wronged here. I don't understand why I can conduct myself in the proper manner (arguing, sure - but I don't go around deleting everything MaulMachine says on every page I can.) and yet I get nothing but complete and utter interference from people who aren't involved in any way.

I ask - What business is it of yours? -- Amazing 00:04, 27 March 2006 (BST)


And what business was it of yours? Your message was obviously dismissive of my issues with this other Wiki user. Don't double-talk if you want to actually "get through" to me, which seems like what you're trying to do now. Just look at the post from Novelty, a Moderator, below, and you'll see the insane bias and immaturity I have to deal with in regards to someone who is actively removing/editing what I post here. It's just a Wiki, yes, but let's see you deal with that and have Moderators who, like Novelty, just want to make a quick joke or insult and shrug any real duties. - Amazing 19:09, 27 March 2006 (BST)


I dunno, man. You have an interesting viewpoint of the situation. Basically, you took an opportunity to jokingly dismiss me while I was making a real complaint to a Moderator. I do not believe it was a simple comment - it was a slam against me. Granted, that's no crime - but no amount of backpeddling will change the fact that you jumped in with a (tame) derogatory comment. I don't care all that much, but again I make note that I wouldn't report anything if something of mine hadn't been deleted/edited/etc. - and I ask what business it was of yours at that moment to chime in on my report to a Moderator. -- Amazing 20:38, 28 March 2006 (BST)

I don't have any real problem with you. I just know what's what and don't appreciate being double-talked at. -- Amazing 18:46, 29 March 2006 (BST)

Thanks for the Kind Words

Saw your kind words for me and just wanted to say thanks. Well, time to lock and load the Amazingdestructor™ I guess :) --Nov W!, Talk 04:33, 27 March 2006 (BST)

Thank you Vista, the only person im likely to ban is PQN, and nobody can say he doesnt have it coming (What with being a 12 time vandal who constantly evades bans). --Grim s-Mod 13:11, 21 April 2006 (BST)

Moderation Promotions

I'm trying for promotion again, just giving you a heads-up.--The General 16:17, 28 March 2006 (BST)

I saw this section here, and decided not to add my own. I just wanted to mention that you're right. I've only been active on the wiki for the last few weeks. But I've also been roaming it trying to get a feel for things since I first got here. I don't plan to change your mind with this, I just wanted you to know. --Mia Kristos 05:11, 7 April 2006 (BST)

Appeltjes van Oranje

Nice to see a fellow dutchman on UD,.. they're prolly more, but haven't found them yet.. These country templates are a nice thing. ;)--Vykos 22:14, 10 April 2006 (BST)

Re: moderator moving suggestions

Ah, I've never looked from there. According to history that one hasn't been updated in a while. It probably was a mistake, as the rule has always been that anyone can move suggestions to peer reviewed/rejected. The suggestion page templates are a mess anyway. Redoing them, now there's a project :) --Brizth W! M T 19:24, 20 April 2006 (BST) Oh and could you consider voting me as mod?

Brizth's right - Moderators are most certainly not necessary to do move entries, and I don't think they ever were. Feel free to change them if you can (otherwise contact one of the Mods keeping an eye on the Suggestions page. I think hagnat and Zaru are the main ones). -- Odd Starter talkModW! 05:46, 21 April 2006 (BST)

Sign

Which one was it? Hyperlink me?  :D --Ron Burgundy 22:00, 20 April 2006 (BST)

Rock on, captain! Reckon it took me three minutes, though. I think there's a delay between sending and receiving messages over ze wiki. --Ron Burgundy 22:02, 20 April 2006 (BST)

Your vote on my Modship bid

Fair enough. I have one question though: what do you mean by "withdrawal"? Do you want me to not edit at all? I hope this isn't the case. If it is, however, I will seriously consider it. --Cyberbob240CDF | Arb 10:11, 21 April 2006 (BST)

Moderator/Arbitrator

For asking me to arbitrate or moderate.

Mattiator

I put the "VandalBan" template on mattiator's page and you removed it. Why?--Admiral Ackbar U! WTF 22:19, 27 May 2006 (BST)

WTFCentaurs

id just like to thank you for your moderation/editing on the suggestions page. The stupid votes have been anyoing me for sometime, so thank you and keep up the good work :D --xbehave 17:36, 16 May 2006 (BST)

Is it ironic that I'm posting this question under this header? A question for the scholars. Is grim's vote here valid? It was my understanding that the person who requested the deletion was not permitted to cast a separate ballot. --Undeadinator 03:39, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Thanks, Vista. Just curious. --Undeadinator 04:02, 21 May 2006 (BST)

Tallying

Oh, okay, that makes sense. I guess I'm a bit too anal retentive with the voting thing. :) -- Andrew McM W! 12:43, 2 May 2006 (BST)


Don D: He who does not make excuses

Yeah, okay, thanks. No trying to make excuses, but he was just plain rude. Just cos I created a talk page? Right, whatever:

THIS IS NOT MY PAGE. IT WAS CREATED BY DON D CRUMMITT IN BLIND STUPIDITY. --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 15:59, 15 May 2006 (BST)

Thanks anyway Don D Crummitt 18:46, 15 May 2006 (BST)

(Above moved from user page into talk page --Kb)

Warning

Do not continue to not read my posts. Failure to not read my posts will result in ignorant warnings, such as this one. Rasher 17:18, 14 May 2006 (BST)

Could you translate that completely incoherant sentence into something that is at least slightly resembling English?--The General W! Mod 18:00, 14 May 2006 (BST)
If you had read the original post, you would have realized it was in the exact same style as his message to me. Furthermore, both of you seem blissfully unaware of Amazing's previous conduct regarding calling out vandalism and now seem completely OK with it. The edits were absolutely in the spirit of the discussion, and if by "not in good faith" you mean my vandalism report was meant to antagonize Amazing, you are completely correct....because it felt like vandalism. If you're going to keep letting him get away with his creative forms of bullshit and punish other people, there's no reason for anyone to respect any future decision of moderators. If you plan on actively enforcing decisions on BOTH sides of the court, I'll calm down. But as long as you continue to keep your face in Amazing's lap, I'm going to continue to be flippant. Rasher 19:27, 14 May 2006 (BST)
You know, I don't really care what the whole history of this is, I'm simply going to say the following: Rasher, you're only making it worse by picking at it. Shut the feck up. --SirensT RR 19:33, 14 May 2006 (BST)

Speedy deletions

You forgot to move some stuff on speedy deletions page... --Brizth mod T W! 18:54, 13 May 2006 (BST)

Congratulations!

What bid? I though you already were a moderator? --Brizth mod T W! 09:15, 9 May 2006 (BST)

I deny everything.--Vista W! 09:18, 9 May 2006 (BST)...

Amazing vs. Lucero

Could you take a look at my ruling on the re-opening of Amazing vs. Lucero and somehow approve or disapprove it ? I believe i have reached a very fair ruling, that lucero agreed to and amazing didnt. --People's Commissar Hagnat [cloned] [mod] 19:43, 26 April 2006 (BST)

Re: Arbitration

If the need arises, I'll certainly consider it. And the link Amazing used is here. --Lucero Capell 22:40, 26 April 2006 (BST)

It's in the image url: http://www.hyperwolf.com/lucero_capell_is_a_whore/savemeohnoes.gif --Lucero Capell 23:08, 26 April 2006 (BST)
Whichever is fine by me. --Lucero Capell 18:19, 27 April 2006 (BST)

Protections

It would be appreciated if you could take a look at the Moderation/Protections#Moderation.2FPolicy_Discussion.2FAmazing page and make a desision on my protection request.--The General W! Mod 21:13, 10 May 2006 (BST)

Will do.--Vista W! 21:16, 10 May 2006 (BST)

How to blow things up

Greetings, I have recently been embroiled in a controversy involving a page which many moderators claim has no bearing on the game. While this is partially true, I believe you can extend this same argument to just about every page in the wiki, including the entire humerous suggestions page. Is there anything I can do to reach these people, or am I forced to hope they vote reasonably. Thank you for your help earlier though. -Padre PadreRomero 06:04, 12 May 2006 (BST)

Policy Discussion Rework

take a look at this page. This is how the policy discussion page should look like. Comments ? --hagnat mod 02:21, 27 May 2006 (BST)

hagnat vs. amazing

what you mean by pages owned by the user himself. User pages are obvious, but does this includes group pages ? --hagnat mod 20:20, 29 May 2006 (BST)

That includes group pages. I don't see why not. I don't think a single line of 25 characters can do much harm there. If I have overlooked something don't hold back and tell me were I fucked up.--Vista 20:29, 29 May 2006 (BST)
Well, i dont consider group pages user owned, it is like forbidding people from Australia from editing on the Neatherlands page of WikiPedia, since they dont live there (therefore, they are not members of that group). This leaves space for people to write POV stuff whitout problem. But that's just my opinion. --hagnat mod 20:46, 29 May 2006 (BST)
By this i meant the fact of users owning their group pages and being able to do whatever they want with them. --hagnat mod 21:37, 29 May 2006 (BST)

Talk

For leaving comments in general, feel free to flatter me.


Moderation promotion

I just wanted to thank you for voting "Abstain" instead of "Against" on the Moderation/Promotions page, given my past run-in with Amazing. If there's anything I can do to demonstrate my resolve not to engage in any further wiki drama (questions you'd like answered or what have you, obviously time is the best demonstration), please let me know. Thanks. --Bob Hammero TW!U! 11:14, 30 May 2006 (BST)

Cheers

cheer for showin me the best way of reporting violations --Grog 15:19, 26 May 2006 (BST)

answer

it's not active combat, you fight against an enimies normally and use it like a skill --Robbie the king

From the suggestions page

This is in response to a message that can be found here.

The point was that your idea of AP is skewed. If AP has absolutely no bearing on how difficult an action is, or how much time it takes, then zombies wouldn't need the Lurching Gait skill.--Wifey 01:06, 23 May 2006 (BST)

Damnclem

Yep, as Xoid said, I'm quick. Don't worry, I'll leave the next one for others :D --Brizth mod T W! 16:33, 20 May 2006 (BST)

Moderator request for Example User

RE: Indeed it is--Xoid put the page on Speedy Deletions a few days ago, and Grim deleted it.  :(--Example User 00:14, 24 April 2006 (BST)

Harassment Policy

Hey Vista. Check out the finished draft of a Harassment policy Wyndallin and I have put together here. Leave your feedback on either his talk page or mine. --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 13:37, 23 April 2006 (BST)

*polite cough* ^^ --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 12:44, 24 April 2006 (BST) Just saw your comments then. Sorry! --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 12:47, 24 April 2006 (BST)

All Glory to Europe

Ah, that would be Finland. The cold, dark Finland. Ok, it's not that dark nor cold at the moment actually :D --Brizth W! M T 19:33, 24 April 2006 (BST)

Holy Crap

My God, that's a lot of # signs. I applaud you on your dedication to such menial tasks. o_o I would have stabbed someone. -Wyndal (talk)-(W!)-(SGP) 19:41, 25 April 2006 (BST)

Deletions

I'm trying to replace as many as I can. It says Voting should take place underneath the request, and each vote should be entered as a dot point in the guidelines, so I am trying to correct it... G F J 12:10, 26 April 2006 (BST)

Except there's a reason they're numbered. --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - W! 12:13, 26 April 2006 (BST)
Really? Then, off course, I'll stop. What is the reason? G F J 12:15, 26 April 2006 (BST)

This makes sense... I'll change it when the interest is gone (unless off course you or somebody else replaced it before that). Thanks, G F J 12:42, 26 April 2006 (BST)


Why did you move my case from cleared to pending?

The General clearly said that the case against The Faggots was cleared unless Amazing posted evidence. Why did you move it to the pending section? Hagnat was the arbitrator accepted by both parties and he ruled me cleared. Amazing said he would accept The General as well and he has also cleared me. How many people have to rule in my favor before my case is cleared?Jjames 22:50, 25 April 2006 (BST)

  • That was not, in fact, Vista's fault. It was mine. When I saw you moving your own case to the cleared section, and having previously read the contents, I found it suspicious. I apologize for the revert. -Wyndal (talk)-(W!)-(SGP) 23:03, 25 April 2006 (BST)
Sorry, I must have misread the history. I will be moving my case back to cleared then.


Vista and Chuck Norris?

ROFL, I just noticed this UD profile on your user page,.. you should lvl him up some more to buy the Roundhouse Kick skill. ;) This is scary, two Dutchmen with Norris on their User page, what's wrong with us? Made the following template just a few days ago. :P:

Chuck.jpg beware: Roundhouse Kick master!
This user has mastered Chuck Norris' signature move,..ehrm.. only move. It's deadly!

--Vykos 15:13, 29 April 2006 (BST)

Re: Congrats

Whee, Thanks! Seems that your bid is also going quite nicely :D --Brizth mod T W! 12:48, 2 May 2006 (BST)

Vandalism/Harassment Issue

Gah, sorry about this, Vista. I've been rather wrapped up with real-life shenanigans for some time now, so I've had precious few moments for Internet Seriousness. Consider this placeholder a promise that I shall, at some later and less hectic date, re-engage in our dialogue concerning obscenity about the Wiki. You miserable, puritanical pedantic prick of a thought Nazi. =) --Undeadinator 05:47, 1 May 2006 (BST)

RE: Wiki Timeline

I appreciate the offer of working on it, but I'm most definately not the person to do this. I have about as much knowledge of Urbandead as a moderately well read newbie — enough not to seem like a newbie at a cursory glance, but not enough to even fake being a veteran when asked the tough questions.

I've played the game, sure. But I've only got youngling characters, and no real experience with the metagaming, and have not posted more than a handful of times in any of the forums. I know when something is beyond my capabilities, and the timeline is definately one of them.

On an unrelated note: I love your user page. I just doubt many are going to play along with you. To quote MIB: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.".Xoid STFU! 08:38, 3 May 2006 (BST)

Featured Suggestion

I'm just letting you know that the featured suggestion was removed from the suggestion intro and that I was told that it should go through the voting process. So I've put it up there for voting at on the talk page. I just thought I should tell you as you showed interest in the project. (Hopefuly we can get it up there!) - Jedaz 13:19, 7 May 2006 (BST)

Wrong talk page

I saw you writing to User_talk:DavidMalfisto, but there's no such user. There is User_talk:David Malfisto instead :D --Brizth mod T W! 20:50, 7 May 2006 (BST)

Deliberately misleading talk page... Oh and talking about syringes

Yeah I do that on purpose. But as I said on my talk page - how many survivors do you know who don't search for syringes? My human alt doesn't even have Necronet Access. The only reason my main character has it is because I'm trying to max him out. The powered search has already provided humans with a low cost way of gaining syringes. This suggestion is simply breathing life into an already useless skill. Also the only reason I referenced you in my vote was to make my possition clearer - I wouldn't say that warrented an edit on your part (that's what talk pages are for). Anyway, where would you rather discuss this? My talk page, yours or the suggestion talk page? David Malfisto 21:48, 7 May 2006 (BST)

as you probably gathered, I like to discus things... I try to reply usually on the same page as the thing I'm responding to because that way people who read one part also get to read the other part. And certianly on the suggestion page I thing that voter interaction is very important, a lot of good suggestions have come forth on discussions on another suggestion, I like that.--Vista W! 22:48, 7 May 2006 (BST)

Strikeout Deally

See the trick with that is in the language. Troll-based votes , WTF Centaurs and it's ilk arn't really votes, they're random text that people put there. I've also made a bit about this on the suggestion's talk page so perhaps we should move this conversation over there in order to let everyone else see. I looked through the archive, and only found discussions on what constitutes a valid vote (in reference to the reasoning behind the vote - Ex: Too hard to code), changes to the vote validation, something about letting authors strikeout invalid votes (again, reasoning behind vote). Nothing about the strikeout rules. If you can find it by all means, point it out. Velkrin 23:36, 8 May 2006 (BST) Edit: Quicky link 23:37, 8 May 2006 (BST)

Other Strikeout thing

Although bad form and discouraged, flaming is allowed on the suggestion page, However striking out votes if you aren't a moderator is not. I kindly ask you refrain from it in the future.--Vista W! 16:27, 24 May 2006 (BST)

Thanks for your politeness in your message. I went back to read the suggestion rules, and this is what I found:
Nope: flaming is allowed on the suggestion page
Yep: striking out votes if you aren't a moderator is forbidden. --Toejam 22:11, 24 May 2006 (BST)

tallying

Thanks Vista! --Swmono talk - W! - SGP 02:36, 9 May 2006 (BST)

hagnat

Aw, doesnt need it anymore. Can go to waste since the whole sistem wont work because of the version of the wiki we are using :( --hagnat mod 19:41, 11 May 2006 (BST)

And i have more german blood than latin going through my veins, so i think i will stick with only the most enlightend of all portugese bit. --hagnat mod 19:41, 11 May 2006 (BST)

He, you mean that... That was fake latin., something web designers and programmers use to fill their designs with text. --hagnat mod 19:51, 11 May 2006 (BST)

  • IRC

yo Vista. I was wondering if you could join us in the #rrf irc channel . All the cool guys are doing it. Over here you would be able to speak with me, zar, and most of the crew of the RRF (like grim, nubis, and papa petro). --hagnat mod 01:33, 13 May 2006 (BST)

Server: irc.zirc.net
Channel: #rrf
  • unblocking

Yeah, i have seen this before. People that i banned for 24h seem to have been banned for more than that. I think that they only get unbanned at 23:59 GMT/BST, even if they were to be unbanned at 11:00 GMT. --hagnat mod 21:06, 16 May 2006 (BST)

Award

Awarded for the most improper use of Vandal Banning page.
Feel free to do whatever you want with it. --Brizth mod T W! 23:05, 11 May 2006 (BST)
I'll give it a place of honor--Vista W! 23:09, 11 May 2006 (BST)
Heres a template made by a witness: {{Pieduel}} --Grim s-Mod 23:22, 11 May 2006 (BST)
it's bloody briljant.--Vista W! 23:39, 11 May 2006 (BST)

Excellent

  • Excellent, I'll be sure to abuse my powers as a wiki editor to strike out every 'change' I see on the suggestions page. -Wyn (talk!) 18:31, 13 May 2006 (BST)
  • Of course you could argue that it was only for trolling. Just because it's argued doesn't make it true, after all. I fully expect people to get just as pissed when I strike out the 'Change' portion of their vote, and when I get put up on Vandal Banning, I just just point at Grim and say, 'don't look at me, he's the one that said it's allowed'. Within my vote, I was informing Grim that I conformed to the rules of voting and that no portion of my vote was valid to be struck. I'm actually considering doing research and finding out whether or not it's valid to bring you up on Vandal Banning for altering my vote.
Furthermore, if you had to have struck out my vote, I would have just reposted it. I wouldn't have removed the one that was struck. I'm quickly losing faith in the long-term users / mods because they're too hard on places like the Suggestions page, and not cracking down enough on users like Scinfaxi and Rueful. I ranted in the RRF IRC channel for a while about that, actually. I'm starting to feel that the people in power are only interested in maintaining the status quo and just shrugging off the fact that they /have the power to actually do something about the shit that's going on in the wiki/ - or in Grim's case, being a rules-lawyer by dragging up obscure laws out of Wiki History that nobody else remembers, just so he can persecute people. -Wyn (talk!) 18:59, 13 May 2006 (BST)
  • Yes, you do have extra power. An average user cannot protect, delete, or ban. After all, if they could then there would be no point in even having the powers in the first place. Also, I understand that you have extra duties - it's almost like with greater power comes greater responsibility, strengthening my point that you do, in fact, have more power, regardless of the checks on you to prevent you from using that power. And finally, there's a slight difference between going 'I win' and 'HAHA U NOOB'. One is perhaps inflammatory if taken the wrong way, and the other is blatantly insulting. I don't have the time or inclination to actually work on things that I enjoy on the wiki any more. All I know is that I'm sick of seeing mods crack down on people who are - overall - good people, and letting assholes like Scinfaxi run amok. Hagnat was against giving Scinfaxi a warning for something he had done a short while ago, 'because giving him a warning would get him banned'. When I read that, I was two seconds away from taking it to misconduct. If it's worth giving him a warning for, it's worth him getting banned for. The results of the warning shouldn't be an issue; the question is 'Does he deserve a warning?' And that is only /one/ thing that I'm pissed off about. Collectively, there's probably two or three moderators that I actually trust to deal with issues appropriately. The rest... well... Lets just say that vote-altering is the least of our problems. -Wyn (talk!) 19:43, 13 May 2006 (BST)
  • You quite obviously missed the point, but it seems that you've seen what I've written on The General's page. My 'lovely little comment' is not 'crap', as you put it. It requires patience and understanding of the material as put forth.
  • You: The problem yes, we do have our hands bound. we forbid ourself to make policy because we are the one enacting it. seperation of powers.
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot the wiki policy that said that moderators lose their cognitive processes when they get promoted. You can't think of policy, write it down coherently, and call the users in to have a vote? What the hell, man. I'm working on policy and I'm a fairly busy person in real life.
  • You: But as soon as I do something to lower the hostilaty of the suggestions page in a way I'm allowed, you suddenly threathen me with vandalism or misconduct.
It does nothing to lower the hostility of the suggestions page, it just makes the users who are amused by such things more hostile towards you, thereby actually increasing the level of the hostility. And I never, not once, suggested that I would call you in for misconduct. If you had actually read what I had said, and not responded blindly to it, you would see that it was HAGNAT that I was thinking of taking in for Misconduct for his treatment of one of the Scinfaxi vandal cases.
  • You: And what is your responce when we say that to avoid such drama is a reason why we make sure that we don't do anything we're not allowed? "It's all your fault for not giving yourself arbitrally more power!" Again this is a wiki, what stops you from trying to give us more power? why must the moderator team take the lead in something they very sensible refrain from when every bloody user can do that.
I never suggested giving yourself more power arbitrarily. Lose. What stops me from trying to give you more power? I am. I'm working on an anti-harassment policy. Lose. The moderation team has painted themselves into a corner, right between 'inactivity' and 'misconduct' because they now have enough militant users who are abusing the system within the rules that would immediately shoot down any proposal to limit their behavior. Lose.
  • You: and stop whining when I don't want to do something that I'm not allowed in the first place. I have to deal with that drama way more then you, and I'm quite likely more sick off it as you.
I'm sorry that you have an issue with ranting that follows a semi-logical sequence, although I fail to see how an intelligent person can see it as 'whining'. You know, unless you're putting yourself above me in terms of position, in which case it would be hard to not see it as whining. Oops. And with regards to drama, I probably check the Vandal Banning and Arbitration pages as often, if not more often, than you do. So don't talk to me about drama. You've been here longer, fine. But I've intervened between the Bobs and Amazing without having to threaten them with warnings or bans. -Wyn (talk!) 22:00, 13 May 2006 (BST)


  • I was hoping it wouldn't escalate any more. And no, I wasn't intending to sound whiny at all. As far as checking Vandal Banning goes, it and Arbitration are on my watchlist, and sometimes I have as many as sixteen wiki pages open. I also try to check every edit on there, and indeed, I caught Rasher (I believe it was Rasher, anyways), moving Scinfaxi's case to the 'Completed' section of Wikigate. You might remember that I called him on it on the main page.
    Regardless, to the meat of the issue: Who are the militant users who are abusing the system within the rules that plague the moderater team so?
    Easily answered. Look at 75% of the anti-Amazing side of Mia's petition, including Mia herself. I can list names if you would like me to. Let it be said that I think that Amazing is a huge drama-causing agent of wiki-destruction, but I don't think that half of the things that were kept were appropriate for being kept. A large percentage of them, I believe, were simply acting out of spite.

But yes, that is how I feel. And if you feel like taking it on yourself to strike out every portion of an inappropriate vote, feel free, but I will duplicate any struck portion of any prior vote in any Spam vote I make. -Wyn (talk!) 23:45, 13 May 2006 (BST)


But yes, I apologize if I caused you any stress which contributed to your illness. Get well soon. -Wyn (talk!) 23:46, 13 May 2006 (BST)


Re:featured template

Like how do you mean exactly? Do you mean to have a page for the Featured suggestion where the template is on it? That probably would go down better for alot of users who are worried about clutter. We could also create a listing of the previous featured suggestions on that page and the description that goes with them, it would make it a bit more interesting then just having one template on it. Well I'll have a play around with the idea and let you know what I can come up with. - Jedaz 05:37, 16 May 2006 (BST)

Ok, I had a bit of a play and this is what I came up with. Tell me what you think about it. Just make any changes you see fit. Once the voting period of the other version is up (because it doens't look like it'll get enough votes) then I'll re-suggest it but as only a link on the suggestions intro. Well we could take the suggestion down now if we wanted to, but we'll see how it goes first I reckon. I'll put a note on the talk page about this possibility and see what people think about it all. - Jedaz 05:56, 16 May 2006 (BST)


Hey, just a request. Can you update the featured suggestions template because I'm going to be busy all day so I won't have time to do it. Thanks. - Jedaz 12:39, 18 May 2006 (BST)

Your vote on my modship bid

May I inquire as to the reasoning behind you changing it to Vouch? I'm flattered, but a little confused... --Cyberbob240CDF - Arb - U! 08:13, 17 May 2006 (BST)

Re: Rasher Vandal Banning

Thank you for 1- the compliment and 2- for saying what I would have wanted to say but with twice the class. --Karlsbad 19:35, 17 May 2006 (BST)

  • I'd like to echo this sentiment, despite our previous disagreement, Vista. -Wyn (talk!) 08:24, 18 May 2006 (BST)

Does xoid know the doctor?

"Wo do you think created you? we are the superiour users." - That ain't gonna fly, not unless you spel-chek™ it, stat! –Xoid STFU! 16:24, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Talking about irritating users...

The page of random — just… look at it! A place for everything and nothing in its place because of that chaotic mess. He only has one edit — his own user page. It isn't linked from anywhere. Please tell me that there is someway to legitimately counter the abuse of those categories. –Xoid STFU! 15:23, 20 May 2006 (BST)

Lexicon

You mentioned you might like a spot on the Lexicon--well, some have opened up. Just letting you know.--'STER-Talk-Mod 19:29, 24 May 2006 (BST)

I understand you just joined up, but since you have three rounds to catch up on it's probably good to start pretty quick--we need one each from you in JKL, MNO and PQRS, and PQRS ends today.--'STER-Talk-Mod 00:45, 27 May 2006 (BST)

Families of Malton

As a member of the Outbreak Lexicon team I thought you might be interested in looking at and/or helping with the Families of Malton project. Conndrakamod T W! 01:50, 30 May 2006 (BST)

Protection

Could you have a look at the Moderation/Protections page and protect the Template:Navigation.--The General W! Mod 18:00, 26 May 2006 (BST)

Never mind, it's already been done.

Mattiator's last few Suggestion votes

Could you go through Mattiator's last couple of votes and strikeout the blasphemous sections? He's been using WTFZOMBIES and stealing WTFCENTAURS. --A Bothan SpyCDF - WTF - U! 16:58, 27 May 2006 (BST)

Your character

I saw your character at Halse Crecent Police department. Just wondering what you're doing there.--The General W! Mod 19:49, 27 May 2006 (BST)

Yeah, i'm aider. Someone stole "The General" before I got to it :(. Nothing particularly happening with Strike Breakers, i'm looking for members of the CDF as they're listed as key agitators, the problem is that I can't find any.--The General W! Mod 20:31, 27 May 2006 (BST)
I'm currently working solo. Mainly because I don't know where everyone else is. Zarthustra was in the area a while ago.--The General W! Mod 21:05, 27 May 2006 (BST)

Not Wikigate 2?

It will be. While ever Amazing is Amazing, he will brew up drama. He knows damn well there is no legitimate reason for it to be there. People have been banned on Wikipedia for less than this, let alone all the crap he has caused. –Xoid STFU! 19:17, 29 May 2006 (BST)

Heh. Always funny to find gossip. What starts drama? People picking at someone, as you just did. I've "caused" absolutely nothing. Furthered it? Maybe, but I think I have a right to defend myself. -- Amazing 06:42, 30 May 2006 (BST)
Alright, a test then:
Amazing, you are a stubborn dickhead.
Now that I've said that, ignore it completely and don't comment on it. If you can prove you can ignore stupid, piddling, idiotic things like that comment, then you have my word that I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when you claim you aren't starting it. –Xoid STFU! 06:55, 30 May 2006 (BST)

The Green Line

This somehow ended up a Mia-only section

Then I came and ruined that. –Xoid STFU!

Psychic

24 - 12 - 56 - 7 - 10 - 98 --SirensT RR 01:24, 28 May 2006 (BST)


Shooting Marionettes

Leave. The. Puppets. Alone. ...Unless they're Bloody Puppets. Those you may shoot freely --SirensT RR 19:16, 23 May 2006 (BST)

I had too, it was self defence...--Vista W! 19:34, 23 May 2006 (BST)
I'm not buying it. Would you like to aim for the temporary insanity plea? --SirensT RR 23:40, 23 May 2006 (BST)
I would, but I'm certified sane.--Vista W! 17:09, 24 May 2006 (BST)

Viva La Revolution

Which country? There's a lot of different ones of varying levels of difficulty. --SirensT RR 23:00, 21 May 2006 (BST)

it was that place south west of egypt, a bit left and up from somalia. I didn't really stop to ask the name of the place... I think the french used to own it...--Vista W! 23:20, 21 May 2006 (BST)
So the "Daddy can I play?" difficulty level. Nice. --SirensT RR 01:29, 22 May 2006 (BST)

Vista Illegal?

We can only hope. I know that I'd never buy my drugs from Microsoft. –Xoid STFU! 15:49, 20 May 2006 (BST)

read up on it, staff section.--Vista W! 15:55, 20 May 2006 (BST)
Damn, this thing really does go to the top. And some bastard removed a suggestion that was rapidly (23 in a matter of 5-15 minutes. a little while back IIRC. Hell no one voted keep, the author abstained.) working it's way to pass the record 26! Damnit. 's no fair! –Xoid STFU! 16:10, 20 May 2006 (BST)

Illegal? Really. I do Vista every night. ...wait a moment, that didn't come out right... --SirensT RR 17:14, 20 May 2006 (BST)

No, but it sounded nice.--Vista W! 18:12, 20 May 2006 (BST)
Those Dutch People just have a way about them,.. they're the bomb!--Vykos 19:51, 20 May 2006 (BST)

Eiffle Tower: With A Vengence

Wait, Doomsday device? When were you planning on telling me? --SirensT RR 13:48, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Eeermh... It was supposed to be a surprise?--Vista W! 15:32, 20 May 2006 (BST)
So you DID remember my birthday! Aww...how sweet! --SirensT RR 17:14, 20 May 2006 (BST)

Happy Hangover Day

As stated. Drink plenty of hydrating fluid. If that doesn't work, try finding the nearest tree, and hanging upside down from one of the lower branches with your shirt over your head and arms. --SirensT RR 00:36, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Eifle Tower

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with you. I feel Mr. Eifle was overcomphensating a bit much, but I can't see it as an insult. --SirensT RR 22:49, 18 May 2006 (BST)

...Isn't it "Eiffel"? --Jimbo Bob ASS 22:52, 18 May 2006 (BST)
Eat me. --SirensT RR 23:01, 18 May 2006 (BST)
Don't tempt me mia... there is a ocean between us...--Vista W! 23:30, 18 May 2006 (BST)
and jimbo? the green line is a Mia zone, go offf to the rest of the talk page...--Vista W! 23:36, 18 May 2006 (BST)
Ah, alright. You might want to consider having something that actually notes that on the page, though. --Jimbo Bob ASS 00:18, 19 May 2006 (BST)
Personally I don't mind, I just get a little twitchy about typos. I left a note. The section should probably be moved down to the bottom of the page. *shrugs* --SirensT RR 00:36, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Guano

Rinse with warm water for 5 to 10 minutes. --SirensT RR 13:52, 17 May 2006 (BST)

Nope I'm still batshit insane...--Vista W! 22:23, 17 May 2006 (BST)
Well, there's nothing wrong with that, but if that's not what you're into, Try adding detergent. --SirensT RR 22:55, 17 May 2006 (BST)

Flying Monkies

Can I have one? I've always wanted a flying monkey... --SirensT RR 23:59, 15 May 2006 (BST)

unfortuneatly they were eaten by flying bears before I read this comment, sorry...--Vista W! 15:04, 18 May 2006 (BST)

Dance?

But I thought I could Dance if I want to, maybe even leave my friends behind. 'cause some of my friends don't dance and when they don't dance, well, they're no friends of mine. --Karlsbad 13:17, 15 May 2006 (BST)

Milk and Honey

*Warms up some milk and honey, puts it in a thermos to keep it warm, places it on Vista's nightstand* --SirensT RR 23:40, 13 May 2006 (BST)

*Then climbs back out his window and runs back to her house before he wakes up...Kinda creepy, ain't it?* --SirensT RR 23:41, 13 May 2006 (BST)
Actually after the line of questioning here below, you being in my bedroom is that creepy, the fact that you climbed out the window before I woke up makes me feel like I didn't measure up...--Vista W! 21:49, 14 May 2006 (BST)
Sorry, I just didn't want to rape kill cook get to close to someone who was sick. I'm not fond of being sick myself. --SirensT RR 21:57, 14 May 2006 (BST)

Embaressing Questions

Hmmm...what to ask. *ponders* I could go with what is your most embaressing moment, But I don't know if you're coherant enough to describe it, so I think I'll go for something simple. Have you ever measured your manhood, and if so, how long is it? XD --SirensT RR 22:37, 12 May 2006 (BST)

I didn't say I'd be thruthfull now did I? O well, I'll not weasel myself out of it. Yes, during puperty. 5cm in normal state, 15cm when aroused. Which is supposed to be the national average. (I've no real intention to find out for myself) But according to my girlfriends it was more the form of it then the size that made them happy. So I'm quite content.--Vista W! 22:52, 12 May 2006 (BST)
*takes note* Thanks, that's all I have...for now. Wuahahaha. (By the way, not bad) --SirensT RR 23:00, 12 May 2006 (BST)
Sweet Dreams! --SirensT RR 23:23, 12 May 2006 (BST)
Well thanks... (twice I guess)--Vista W! 18:57, 13 May 2006 (BST)
Due to circumstances Vista will only be intermittedly aviable.

Messages & Questions

Place your message under the appropriate heading. For anything involving me as moderator or requests for arbritration the aptly named Moderator/Arbitrator. For everything else use Talk


Moderator/Arbitrator

For asking me to arbitrate or moderate.

A quick question

Thanks again (and enjoy your coffee). :D So I see I have a bunch of fancy links now. I tried the rollback one on the sandbox page, so I know how that works, but I'm a bit wary of the others, because I don't know what will ask for confirmation, and what will just take effect immediately. If it's not too much trouble, could you give me a quick one-sentence description of the mod abilities so I know what to expect when I need to use them? Thanks. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 08:54, 11 July 2006 (BST)

Mod thing

Hi, you were probably going to get to this soon anyway, so sorry if it seems like I'm nagging, but the two weeks are up on my promotion bid and I'm curious to see what the different interface looks like (if I get promoted, of course). Thanks. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 06:50, 11 July 2006 (BST)

hagnat vs. amazing

what you mean by pages owned by the user himself. User pages are obvious, but does this includes group pages ? --hagnat mod 20:20, 29 May 2006 (BST)

That includes group pages. I don't see why not. I don't think a single line of 25 characters can do much harm there. If I have overlooked something don't hold back and tell me were I fucked up.--Vista 20:29, 29 May 2006 (BST)
Well, i dont consider group pages user owned, it is like forbidding people from Australia from editing on the Neatherlands page of WikiPedia, since they dont live there (therefore, they are not members of that group). This leaves space for people to write POV stuff whitout problem. But that's just my opinion. --hagnat mod 20:46, 29 May 2006 (BST)
By this i meant the fact of users owning their group pages and being able to do whatever they want with them. --hagnat mod 21:37, 29 May 2006 (BST)

Swiper vs Timbob

He defaced my Wiki and for the first time I over reacted and posted on his - not his talk page. Is there any way to resolve this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sgt Whiskey Swiper (talkcontribs) 22:40, 30 May 2006 (BST).

Wikigate ad nausium

Could you put a link on my talk page under youir comment on what I need to look at... The Drama has gotton so convoluted I cant even remember where to look for what...(shrug) Conndrakamod T W! 22:15, 1 June 2006 (BST)

Talk

For leaving comments in general, feel free to flatter me.

Nexus War?

Your Nexus War character appears to have gone idle. Any reason?--The General T Sys U! P! F! 12:52, 11 July 2006 (BST)

Time, time and time. Works is at overdrive at the moment and I started some evening courses that gobbles up all my spare time. I'm just so busy at the moment that I don't have enough hours in the day. It feels like I'm even too busy to live my own life at the moment. Not only do I struggle to find some time for all my internet related stuff, I also have trouble keeping up on my social life. I'm letting a whole bunch of people down at the moment, sorry... And it looks like it going to continue for a while as well. It really sucks. Sorry I can't bring better tidings.--Vista 21:18, 12 July 2006 (BST)
Ok, i'll manage the group while you're busy.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 11:34, 18 July 2006 (BST)

Bureaucrat

Congratulations on your promotion! –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 06:23, 1 July 2006 (BST)

Congragulations from me as well. Good job. - Jedaz 10:25, 1 July 2006 (BST)
Yes yes! Congrats and stuff! *applause, cheers, whistles* --SirensT RR 16:01, 1 July 2006 (BST)
Thank you, I hope I wont cock it up.--Vista 19:49, 5 July 2006 (BST)
Oops! Too late ;) Nah, I'm just razzin ya. Good work! Cyberbob  Talk  19:54, 5 July 2006 (BST)

Strange change

I saw this edit and thought, "hey, Vista's voted!" but then I saw what you changed. I don't get it. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 19:28, 29 June 2006 (BST)

To tell when voting ends. –Xoid STFU! 19:35, 29 June 2006 (BST)

Bureucrat Status

You've got my vote. Soon the rebellion will be crushed, and young Grim S will belong to the WCDZ! --A nameless, faceless person rumored to be connected to the WCDZ, 15:18, 28 June 2006 (BST)

Moderation (again)

Since you voted on my modship bid last time around, I thought you deserved to know that I plan on running again next month. I recall that you had concerns regarding how long it had been since I was involved in the drama mess with Amazing. If you would be willing, I'd like to hear your thoughts on my suitability for this time around before I put in my bid. Thanks in advance. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 10:08, 24 June 2006 (BST)

Deletion page

I think it's better if someone else does that one, as I've been somewhat involved with the case. I advised him to move the request to speedy deletion queue, which caused Xoid to promply move it back. And I already voted, so that would make my opinion biased and make me make biased decision which would be bad and all that. --Brizth mod T W! 22:20, 20 June 2006 (BST)

Belated Grats

Sorry I didn't manage to vouch for you... but I see my vouch wasn't required anyways - grats! --Nov W!, Mod, Talk 16:43, 18 June 2006 (BST)

Vandal Banning

In case you don't see it on Vandal Banning, my apologies for having taken the Toejam case to that page. Although I disagree with Toejam's assertion that removing part of that page was improving the wiki, and I don't think his and my mistakes were on the same level, if I'm in that situation again, I'll try to resolve the situation through other means before resorting to a vandalism report. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 01:08, 9 June 2006 (BST)

About the three page vandal

Sorry about that. I wasn't sure what the best way to let you guys know about the vandal reverts that I did was. As an aside, what's wrong with this idiot!? "Annoying" doesn't begin to cover it. –Bob Hammero ModB'cratTA 21:26, 8 June 2006 (BST)

I know, I'm at a loss myself... a thirtheen year old boy with to much hormones I think. Thanks for the help though. But we mods have a very nice button that makes reverting just one click. It's so easy that it's laughable--Vista 21:28, 8 June 2006 (BST)
Funnily enough, that was exactly what PQN was. Had a chat with him. He was rather suprised that a Moderator would actually bother talking to him, and stated vehemently that he was pissed that the 3pagewikivandal was stealing his thunder. Anyway, I sent him off to "greener pastures". (Read: larger wikis with less active administration.) He should be busy for some time. –Xoid STFU! 12:08, 24 June 2006 (BST)
How did you contact him?--The General T Sys U! P! F! 15:09, 24 June 2006 (BST)
And more importantly can you do the same with the 3PV?--Vista 15:12, 24 June 2006 (BST)
I contacted him via email. Since I was bemused the last time PQN inferred that we happen to "service" Kevan to earn our modship, I checked what he had left in previous edits. (Giving me some insight into his aims, I'll get to that later.) When he struck again, he said something to the effect of "you guys should really contact me via email". So I used the wiki's builtin email-this-user feature for that particular PQN, got no response. He did however add me to his MSN Messenger contacts. Not recognising this new contact, I inquired as to who he was and was able to get him to let loose with a lot of "personally identifible information".
PQN was actually blackmailing us, originally. His earliest vandalisms were basically "join X forum and I'll go away". He was essentially going to get modship on some forum through aiding that webmaster earn money. (The forum used pop-unders, apparently.)
Essentially: 13, Male, web designer, lives in Perth, uses newgrounds (a member of newgrounds, perhaps?), claims to no longer be interested in Urban Dead. Thinks The General is slow, likes the Freemantle AFL team, hates soccer, is a fan of Apple. Not much more I can give than that. I blocked him shortly thereafter as he became very irritating.
Due to the rather unique circumstances, I'm certain that the 3pagewikivandal will not be as interested in talking to us. Particularly since PQN essentially didn't care one way or the other, we were merely a convenient target, the 3pagewikivandal has an agenda making it much less likely that he would be willing to listen. –Xoid STFU! 15:58, 24 June 2006 (BST)
I was going to go about it a different way. Contact his ISP, he may be willing to talk however. You saw him on the forum, lets see what he says, i'll try to contact him.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 16:16, 24 June 2006 (BST)
The in depth explanation was more for Vista's benefit. I've already commented on your thread at the forums. –Xoid STFU! 16:26, 24 June 2006 (BST)
I know, just saying that it might be worth a try contacting him.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 16:28, 24 June 2006 (BST)

Random discovery

Cool, didn't know you were Dutch, like me... You don't mind me copy-pasting the flagbox code, do you~? Greetings Nine 15:09, 2 June 2006 (BST)

Arb Archive note

I'm guessing that kind of POV wasn't exactly what we were going for? *snicker* --Karlsbad 12:24, 1 June 2006 (BST)

(reposted from User_talk:Karlsbad -Kb)
Well you could argue that it was actually quite NPOV quite conviningly in my opinion... Lets just say it didn't fit the status we want the arbitration page to have...--Vista 12:35, 1 June 2006 (BST)

Not Wikigate 2?

It will be. While ever Amazing is Amazing, he will brew up drama. He knows damn well there is no legitimate reason for it to be there. People have been banned on Wikipedia for less than this, let alone all the crap he has caused. –Xoid STFU! 19:17, 29 May 2006 (BST)

Heh. Always funny to find gossip. What starts drama? People picking at someone, as you just did. I've "caused" absolutely nothing. Furthered it? Maybe, but I think I have a right to defend myself. -- Amazing 06:42, 30 May 2006 (BST)
Alright, a test then:
Amazing, you are a stubborn dickhead.
Now that I've said that, ignore it completely and don't comment on it. If you can prove you can ignore stupid, piddling, idiotic things like that comment, then you have my word that I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when you claim you aren't starting it. –Xoid STFU! 06:55, 30 May 2006 (BST)
If anyone is actually interested, they can see my apology on Amazing's talk page. –Xoid STFU! 12:35, 1 June 2006 (BST)

Bureaucrat Promotions

There is now a Bureaucrat Promotions page and all moderators have one week to nominate themselves for promotion.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 17:04, 1 June 2006 (BST)

User Must Not Be Antagonised

I first read it as a mod message (genuinely!), assuming the odd style to be an arbitrary "okay, we need to put something on Amazing's page to stop people trolling him, let's go with this" decision, as the result of a ruling. It didn't look like a system warning message I'd seen before, but I have never seen a system warning message before, so maybe they look like that. And the antagonising tone of Amazing's page isn't necessarily convincing, it can make the system message sound more like a weary admission that yes, he's clearly antagonising a lot of other people, but just humour him and don't upset him and maybe he'll go away.

I think the issue with the divs is really more about being able to impersonate a mod (or the system), than making the page look ugly. Do we actually have any policy against people who start putting "mod" in their sig, or make giant, misleading, fictional banners? "This user has been banned for 24 hours." to dissuade people from reporting their vandalism, "This user is a member of Suggestions Moderation Team and has the power to alter your votes", etc. Does it count as straight vandalism? Or is it such a minor issue that it's not worth trying to police it? --Punchkin 03:41, 2 June 2006 (BST)

Lexicon

Okay, I understand you've been banned for the past couple days, but now that you're back, you're three rounds behind on the Lexicon. I understand you subbed in and were already on a backlog, but please if you can at least get in the JKL soon, please.--'STER-Talk-ModP! 02:26, 4 June 2006 (BST)

An Interesting Read

This may actually give us the power to stop the drama once and for all. –Xoid STFU! 16:54, 5 June 2006 (BST)

Eye Em

Do you have a IM account? There is something important that I want talk one to one with you about. –Xoid STFU! 14:22, 6 June 2006 (BST)

Actually I'm at work right now so it wil have to wait a couple of hours. Also I don't actually have IM. will MSN do? my Hotmail account is ErnstvdBosch. I'll be on msn 4 and a half hours from my timestamp. 18.00 (GMT) server time. 19.00 (BST) sigtime. or you can go to the RFF IRC channel and we can get a private conversation there at the same time. Sorry for the inconvenience. --Vista 14:36, 6 June 2006 (BST)
Times I am (potentially) available for a chat: 11:00 (AEST) — 03:00 (AEST)
So that would be… 1:00 (GMT) — 17:00 (GMT)
If people actually want to chat to me; I guess I can leave MSN Messenger on. I hate speaking to idiotic relatives. i.e. all of them. Meaning that MSN is off 99% of the time. >:E –Xoid STFU! 00:50, 14 June 2006 (BST)
A talk, if you would. –Xoid STFU! 12:47, 26 June 2006 (BST)

Re:Strikes on the Vandal Banning page

I have fixed the formating mess they caused. Still not too familiar with the Wiki code, I'm afraid.
Apologies for that. --The Fifth Horseman 12:39, 9 June 2006 (BST)

Donkey

Sorry, couldn't think of a more meaningful heading.

About this edit — it is generally a better idea to move the page, then nominate the redirect for speedy deletion because you keep the history that way. (Frankly, I would love to see this done with the suggestions page, so you know which tool left their unsigned vote, without having to really dig. Since that would cause chaos, it's probably better to not do it in that case.) –Xoid STFU! 16:50, 12 June 2006 (BST)

whups

Doh. My mistake. *shame*--'STER-Talk-ModP! 23:21, 24 June 2006 (BST)

A thing

OK. You know what? I am sick and fucking tired of your arrogance. My conduct on M/M was perfectly acceptable; I was trying to enforce a fucking ruling - multiple rulings even! But nooo. Vista, because, you know, he's all high and mighty, is able to fucking pull a filibuster out of his arse and reverse the decisions! Get down off that fucking pedestal and actually contribute to the wiki. When was the last time you processed a Deletion? When was the last time you cycled the Suggestions page? Hell, up until not too long ago you'd never even fucking moved a page! I will not tolerate lazy fucks like yourself telling me what to do. If you want me to respect your opinion, you'd better pull your goddamn finger out and work. Cyberbob  Talk  09:16, 11 July 2006 (BST)

The Green Line

Content?

But the OS that was named after you has yet to take over the world! You can't be content at this early stage. –Xoid STFU! 05:05, 25 June 2006 (BST)

Velvet Revolver

They rock. Seriously. –Xoid STFU! 17:21, 18 June 2006 (BST)

Intelligent?

Katie Holmes? After hooking up with that douchebag Tom Cruise? Are you frickin' kidding me? –Xoid STFU! 02:57, 8 June 2006 (BST)

In my alternative world there is no Tom Cruise. --Vista 11:34, 8 June 2006 (BST)
Amen to that! Who needs that ridiculously short couch-jumper anyway? –Xoid STFU! 11:50, 8 June 2006 (BST)

Lewd Act

Exactly how much bang do I get for my buck? –Xoid STFU! 16:31, 5 June 2006 (BST)

A photo of Lauren Graham and a private place.--Vista 16:34, 5 June 2006 (BST)

Going to fix that?

Or is "The Green Line" mean purely as irony? –Xoid STFU! 05:49, 4 June 2006 (BST)

Question not the ways of the wiseass Vista --SirensT RR 06:22, 4 June 2006 (BST)

Psychic

24 - 12 - 56 - 7 - 10 - 98 --SirensT RR 01:24, 28 May 2006 (BST)

isn't that last weeks Powerball?--Vista 16:47, 30 May 2006 (BST)
No,.. it's Lucky 7 but she forgot to mention the last number,.. so you still don't know if you won or not.--Vykos 03:32, 4 June 2006 (BST)
My mistake. 3 --SirensT RR 04:55, 4 June 2006 (BST)


Private Discussion

Go to http://modofmod.proboards99.com/index.cgi for Mod Discussions Conndrakamod T W! 19:19, 4 June 2006 (BST)

Ooo! Can I join?? --SirensT RR 19:44, 4 June 2006 (BST)
No, it's a boys club only, Mia. ;-p –Xoid STFU! 20:01, 4 June 2006 (BST)
I think we would be better of using the private board on my forum for mod chat, rather than creating a new board using proboards.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 19:47, 4 June 2006 (BST)

Wiki disscussion forum

I have just created a wiki discussion forum to discuss the wiki in standarded message board format. All current wiki moderators will be made moderators on the forum.--The General T Sys U! P! F! 20:59, 9 June 2006 (BST)


I need your help

I feel I have been wronged by a certain faction of wiki moderators. Please visit this page and voice your opinion. Because of my group affiliation, I know I am linked to controversial user Amazing, however, my history on the wiki and in-game has been positive and constructive. I would appreciate your opinion and/or support on this matter. Thank you. --Zod Rhombus 15:25, 20 June 2006 (BST)

Response from Zod's Talk Page

I first contacted Jedaz via his talk page and was unsuccessful in reaching an agreement. Even Jedaz stated I should take it to misconduct if I felt so. I'm not saying or implying that I am a 'good' wiki user, only implying that my history shows 'good faith' edits and my stance is mainly moderate. The attacks that came against me were levied as soon as I posted on Jedaz's page and continued increasingly on the misconduct page, where I remained under the proper decorum, unlike the others. I was simply calling to the fact that I was not attacking anyone as viciously as I was being attacked and ridiculed. In fact, I was showing more moderation than the moderators. I don't do this to boast, who cares about anyone over the internet? I was simply trying to expose the unneccessary bias levied against me because of my history with Amazing and prove the legitimacy of my claim. Also, I wanted to distance myself from the emotional antics of Amazing, in which my whole sum of postings can be seen as non-inflammatory throughout this whole event. Comapre my responses and the mods' responses and notice which sounds better for the wiki. I believe the Anti-Amazing bias was a factor here and I was not allowed to get a fair consideration. It will be noted for any concerns I have in the future. --Zod Rhombus 19:19, 20 June 2006 (BST)

Personal tools