Category talk:Suggestions

Page Discussion

Please put new topics at the top of the page.

Archives

Archives for this page are here

Discussion About Talk:Suggestions

As Talk:Suggestions was moved to Developing Suggestions, discussion about that page now takes place at Talk:Developing Suggestions.

Discussion About Category:Suggestions

Put talk about the page Category:Suggestions here

Suggestion Discussion

Put talk about the process of posting and voting for suggestions here.

Suggestions, March 2009

As some of you may know, I've been following the trends of Suggestions this year. Mostly because I like graphs.

In that spirit, here's a graph for first quarter suggestions, 2009.

(If that's a bit unclear, click to enlarge.)

-- Linkthewindow  Talk  10:04, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

That said, I ironically fail at making graphs. The data is all on this page, so if anyone feels like taking another shot, go ahead. Linkthewindow  Talk  10:05, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

The only reason you fail at graph making is that you don't give the stats time to reveal any meaningful pattern, Link. Timespan is way too short in that one -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 13:32 21 March 2009 (BST)

Indeed. But while your here.

An amazing correlation seems to be developing between the use of developing suggestions and the outcome of the voting process......--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Not surprising really. Most people get the message on developing suggestions... what is amazing is that some don't. Perhaps they like the conflict.

So there ;) -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 10:25 26 March 2009 (BST)

We should throw that up on Developing Suggestions... Linkthewindow  Talk  11:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that's a bit misleading. I'll look if I can make more honest pies. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 12:30, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Here's my view:

--Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 13:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Spam Abuse

Lets make some friends.........

Whilst I appreciate the spam vote has a purpose I feel it is being abused, it is meant to be used for SPAM suggestions such as "Kung Fu CB Mama on Wheels" it is NOT a Strong Kill, some suggestions are doomed from the start such as a large amount of Crucifix ideas because of the mentality of the wiki user.

For example: Crucifix Use Yes, we knew it was doomed but Spam Votes such as these:

"Crucifix suggestions = Insta-spam",

"No crucifix suggestions",

"Frequently suggested and shot down",

"No thanks" and

"Crucifixes should never actually do anything."

Hardly qualify as spam votes, they should be under kill/dupe. Just because someone thinks an idea is stupid does not mean it is spam.

Abuse of the spam system can prevent plausible suggestions getting a fair opportunity for voting by cutting their time short and getting them moved to spam as opposed to the appropriate page. Is there any way we can start enforcing the "Spam votes are not a "strong kill"" system, striking inappropriate spam as "inappropriate spam" is the first thing that comes to mind but there has to be a better way. The "Valid Votes" guide clearly outlines what is what but people don't seem to care. --Kamikazie-Bunny 12:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I sympathize (there have been discussions along these lines before), but trying to change the way Spam is used would be an exercise in futility. We would be better off updating the policies to describe the way the votes are actually used than trying to enforce that kind of interpretation of them. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 13:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

This topic is a Dupe of several previous discussions and all have died because some people feel they have a right to define SPAM as anything that they do not personally like. The best we managed in the past was to get a buffer zone to prevent SPAM being removed before most of the community even knew about the suggestion... I think Jon Pyre once had a suggestion removed in under an hour which was frankly ludicrous when you understood who and why the SPAM votes came from.--Honestmistake 14:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Since SPAM votes are being cast in an abusive manner about 90% of the time, why not just get rid of the option? Let Sysops decide what is SPAM.--Zombie Lord 02:54, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

They already do; under the current guidelines, there is not any REQUIREMENT that suggestions with spam votes be designated as such, and I think there's even a few cases where they were allowed to stay up well past that time, or even were sent to peer rejected rather than spam.
I don't see spam being abused or even esspecially abusable; a suggestion that gets enough votes to be designated spam would NOT pass if just left up for a longer time. In effect, spam just says "this is unpopular enough that its not worth having it cluttering up the voting page."  Swiers 03:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

No they don't. Anyone can spaminate a suggestion if it qualifies as Spam. The sysops may refrain from doing it themselves but they can't stop someone else from doing it.

I don't see the point in spaminating a suggestion if it's been under voting longer than a week, so I don't pay much attention to whether it qualifies as Spam after that (hence some have made it to two weeks even if they qualified for Spam). Also, Spam is for removing early, if it's already been under voting for two weeks I cycle it into Rejected.

I still think the biggest problem with Spam is that it's called Spam. It feels very harsh for suggesters to get their suggestion classified as spam, and it makes the voters act more hostile. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 09:42, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Why not replace spam with Vandalism, it would mean Breaches Wiki rules and spam could just be made into kill?--Super Nweb 04:27, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Neutral/Impartial Votes

While the majority of voters have an opinion occasionally a suggestion appears that people just don't care about. Has the possibility of having Neutral/Impartial votes been discussed before? --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

That's also called "not voting". What's the point of another category of votes that do not matter either way? Comments can be made on the talk page of the suggestion. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 15:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Although there is no actual point with to voting neutral with regards to it getting reviewed/rejected it helps provide information on how many people have bothered to look at the suggestion and provides further information for Kevan when looking at potential updates... Theres is difference between 7+ 3- 2 neutral and 7+ 3- 20 neutral (a little extreme for an example but I hope you get the point). --Kamikazie-Bunny 17:05, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't really see how it would make a difference. Kevan has implemented suggestions even from Peer Rejected, so it's not like he decides what goes in just by the numbers. --Midianian^{¦T¦DS¦SP¦} 17:45, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

If you dont like it enough to want it in the game kill/change it with the suggestions you'd like to see or just make a comment on the talk pages. Basically, feature exists. --Karek^maps?! 01:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions Change

I think there's a problem in how people are currently introduced to suggestions on the wiki. On the main page, there's a link to Category:Current Suggestions, on which is a wall of text about creating suggestions and at the bottom the list of today's suggestions and then the rest of current suggestions. The other way is through the game's FAQ, which links to Suggestions, where you are greeted with today's suggestions and an even bigger wall of text.

I think Category:Current Suggestions should be a page where you only have to go if you're making a suggestion, or binge-voting. The link on the main page should be pointed to Suggestions, which should be turned into a clean portal-type page that merely links to all the relevant pages instead of trying to include all the information on a single page. Something along these lines. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 15:47, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I liked this a month ago, and I still like it :). Perhaps we should all write a community guide to making a suggestion? Linkthewindow  Talk  15:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Not bad. I'd still have a giant sign saying. DEVELOPING SUGGESTIONS near the top. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... linking to Developing Suggestions at the top kind of make sense. You'd have the whole suggestion life-cycle in the correct order starting from discussion, then today's suggestions, then there's the button for other suggestions still in voting and then recently closed. How does this look? --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 15:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Not bad at all, But i'd make it more simple. Click here to properly develop your suggestion before voting. or something less long winded. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I think that would be better served on Category:Current Suggestions (which should also be revamped), because that's where you go to make a suggestion. Suggestions would be just a portal pointing people in the right directions. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 21:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd think a pure portal would work better, no recently closed sections etc and the space used to describe the various sections, then a lot of this page could be streamlined out. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

One of the reasons I included the recently closed suggestions on the page was that new users would see what kind of suggestions are made and where they end up. What do you mean with "various sections"? --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 21:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Dupe Votes

While I appreciate that people spamming the same old suggestions over and over again is never a good thing, I think that the dupe vote leaves a lot to be desired. I made a suggestion a couple of months ago that very nearly made it through into peer reviewed, apart from that fact that in the last few days, it was found to have been a dupe from about three years ago.

I put it to you that the game and the wiki have both changed a great deal since that time, certainly there were very few, if any, of the same voters voting on the original suggestion as were voting on mine, and even if that wasn't the case, shouldn't new ideas be judged fairly by the users at the time, being aware of the current game climate and mood?

I would propose that a dupe vote can only be valid if the duped suggestion is under a year old, or has been peer reviewed. This means that frequently suggested suggestion still get removed as usual, and is a sufficiently long amount of time to allow interesting ideas to be re-submitted to what would potentially be a whole new bunch of people. What say you all? --Sage|Carr ^Cobra 12:25, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Dupe exists the prevent the system having to endure yet another machine gun for an entire two weeks. The final resting place for a suggestion does not matter in the slightest, look at all the popular but completely retarded stuff in Peer Reviewed, and then contrast that with the Ruin update and Ankle Grab that came from Peer Rejected.

The problem is the two early cycling systems, one is designed for those that actually know the system and suggestion, the other is based on the misguided notion that a group of users are more authoritative about a specific system. Fix that, as well as the escalations procedure and dupe will by and large go away. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 18:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

The suggestion to limit Dupe votes to those under a year old is in fact a dupe of a previous discussion :) I for one support the idea as the game is very different from 3 years ago (hell its changed a fair bit in the last few months) What really needs tightening up though is how dupe votes are validated, currently we can have 3 shout "DUPE" and a suggestion dies if its even vaguely similar even if 20 or so others disagree with them. --Honestmistake 23:06, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Then dispute it. Cases have been re-entered into the system through arbies before. If you think you can prove a significant difference then say so. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 23:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Should we have a requirement that all suggestions go through Developing Suggestions?

Putting it simply, should we make it so that all suggestions need to go through Developing Suggestions before they're submitted for voting? Right now, all that seems to be submitted is dupes of old suggestions or just pure spam. Is it really worth having a page made for the suggestion just for it to be locked up 6 hours later with a great big Spam template or about half an hour later with a Dupe template?

By putting things through Developing Suggestions we can sort out the dupes and the rubbish and stop them from getting to voting in the first place leaving the decent ones to be voted on. Developing Suggestions is well used and there are some genuinely good suggestions born from it because of the discussion. We already have a 3 day minimum discussion on Policies (granted they aren't the same as suggestions) so why don't we apply the same thing here? -- Cheese 23:11, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but not a three-day limit. One day would be better. We must make it clear on the page that this is a requirement, and finally, who can remove non-DS suggestions? Linkthewindow  Talk  03:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

• This has actually been discussed a few times in the past. It boils down to this; Not every suggestion needs to be discussed and all forced discussing of them would do is cause more drama and template breaks on Developing Suggestions.--Karek^maps?! 03:20, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

What about just making the wording stronger -"It is strongly recommended that you take your suggestion to the Developing Suggestions page first-most suggestions that don't go through this page don't get accepted." Linkthewindow  Talk  03:32, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

That seems like a good compromise. Although considering there are very few new suggestions coming in, and those that are are usually brought by swiers to developing suggs anyway I'd say forcing people through developing would be beneficial. It should certainly be obligatory for newbies.--xoxo 03:57, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Now that just makes no sense. What is with all the newbie haet these days?--Karek^maps?! 03:58, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

That would just cause way too much drama. How do we define a newbie? Also, assuming that all newbies post bad suggestions would make them feel unwelcome, and as Karek said, newbie hate is bad. Linkthewindow  Talk  04:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it the week of retarded suggestions? Yes let's have a rule that removes suggestions and invalidates votes and either escalates or lets off users based on sysop whims. Fucking brilliant! You ever thought of doing stand up? It's ideas like this that validates my belief that the sysop spamination condition should be removed, because sysops obviously have no fucking idea about this system. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 16:49, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Should talk pages be protected after a suggestion has been cycled?

Myself, Nubis and Boxy have been talking about whether or not a suggestion's talk page should be protected after cycling at A/PM (discussion here. The voting page already is, just not sure about the talk. I personally think it should be protected-voting has closed, and no-one has these watched anyway, but I would like to see what everyone else thinks first. Linkthewindow  Talk  14:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I have my suggestions watched, and I feel that it does no harm if someone edits the talk page of a closed suggestion if they feel like commenting. It doesn't affect the voting stats in any way -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 14:42 17 December 2008 (BST)

I also have my suggestions watched. Plus, I keep all suggestions on my watchlist for a month or so after they're closed. I really don't see a reason why the talk pages should be protected. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 16:51, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

ritalin says protect them.--xoxo 16:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Protect them, leave a nice template at the top that points out that voting and discussion was closed and leave a link to Talk:Suggestions so they can take their ideas there to a receptive audience. I do not want to be responding to some idiot's thoughts on a year old gun suggestion solely for his benefit. Talk:Suggestions is not just there to get feedback, it's there for public feedback so other newbies can see how stupid certain ideas are. I repeat myself enough over there as it is, I don't want to be repeating myself more just because the sysop team can't be bothered with protecting an additional page. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 18:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

My vote is don't protect them. Just because.--– Nubis ^NWO 23:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd say not bother. Maybe add a template saying that voting is closed and new suggestios are on developing suggestion? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I quite like that idea-perhaps we should open a subpage of D:S specifically for discussing suggestions where the voting has closed (or at least putting up a link to the current discussion on the old page?) Linkthewindow  Talk  05:52, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Why the hell do we need a subpage? Why can't whoever decides to waste everyone's time by bringing back what's already gone through the system put "This references suggestion X" at the beginning of their post? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 06:03, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Discussion doesn't end with voting, this has long since been understood to be the case and a major part of why we don't protect suggestion talk pages. It would just serve to inconvenience users.--Karek^maps?! 00:59, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

By the way, one very relevant reason to use the talk page happens to be suggestion Revision, which is a special process for suggestions and shouldn't have to require going through Talk:Suggestions again and again when you have relevant voters paying attention to the talk page of the suggestion.--Karek^maps?! 01:06, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Another good reason to keep them open would be so that, if a new suggestion is made and somebody uses the old suggestion as a "dupe" reference, this reference could be noted on the talk page of the old suggestion.  Swiers 02:52, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

---

Policy Votes

This area is for formal policy votes concerning the suggestions page. All policies, along with their associated votes and discussions, are governed by the Voting Guidelines established for this section.

There are no policies under voting at the moment.