Suggestion:20070814 No Genny in Ruined Building

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20070814 No Genny in Ruined Building

DonTickles 16:34, 14 August 2007 (BST)

Suggestion type
Improvement to todays update

Suggestion scope
Ruined buildings update

Suggestion description
There has been previous debate as to whether you should be able to set up a genny in ransacked buildings. The main purpose for doing this is to set up a genny in a ransacked NT, then clear out the undead inhabitants, including the brain rotted ones, with syringes. A single survivor can enter a ransacked NT, set up and fuel a genny, and clear 5 Rotters. A small group of humans can clear out a full 50 zombies from a ransacked NT in this fashion with ease. With the new update zombies are able to ruin buildings, leaving everything broken and destroyed. I think that the likelihood that you would be able to hook a genny to broken equipment without repairing it and still be able to use the NT facilities to revive rotters is both out of balance and out of reality.

Therefore I make the simple suggestion to remove the ability to set up a genny in a ruined building. Require it to be repaired with a toolbox prior to installing a generator. A simple ransack would still allow the placement of the generator.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Author vote --DonTickles 16:34, 14 August 2007 (BST)
2. I hate to say it but i agree----Sexualharrison ^{ה •QSG•T} 16:39, 14 August 2007 (BST)
3. The equipment is ruined. It should be fixed before a generator is hooked up.-- Murray Jay Suskind 16:39, 14 August 2007 (BST)

   Adendum: The update is awesome. I know it's a buff for zombies, but hooking up a generator to ruined equipment just really bugs me. -- Murray Jay Suskind 17:17, 14 August 2007 (BST)

4. Bling bling. --Sonny Corleone ^{RRF CoL DORIS CRF pr0n} 16:48, 14 August 2007 (BST)
5. Obvious keep, this has been an annoying feature for a while. I bought Brain Rot for a reason! Mrhton 16:52, 14 August 2007 (BST)
6. Keep. As Murray Jay Suskind. --Visible One 16:55, 14 August 2007 (BST)
7. Keep This looks a lot like something kevan overlooked, and if he hasn't he needs to know it's annoying as hell and everyone hates it. Much like dropping newspapers.--Wooty 17:00, 14 August 2007 (BST)
8. Keep - Irritating as it is to try to change new things already, I just figured it would be like this. We love the update! --Karloth Vois ^RR 17:09, 14 August 2007 (BST)
9. Keep - Agreed broken equipment needs fixed to power it. ZSandmann 17:35, 14 August 2007 (BST)
10. Keep - How are you going to plug the lights/NecroNet into a genny when it's been "smashed and ransacked" or or even ruined? -- Ponda Baba 18:06, 14 August 2007 (BST)
11. Good Idea - This makes enough sense, and it's a really great adddion to the game. BoboTalkClown 18:08, 14 August 2007 (BST)
12. Keep - As above. --Druuuuu 18:09, 14 August 2007 (BST)
13. Keep - ditto. --the one, the only, sushiknight ^{(talk contribs HARD E.N.D.)} 18:12, 14 August 2007 (BST)
14. Keep - Same as others, if a building is ruined what are you hooking a generator up to? --A zombie01 18:15, 14 August 2007 (BST)
15. Keep - As Murray.--Insomniac By Choice 18:40, 14 August 2007 (BST)
16. Keep-It makes enough sense. --Toastrlord^{T TSA} 18:52, 14 August 2007 (BST)
17. Keep - Yep, should have been part of the ruin building update to begin with. Hooking a generator up when the wiring is damaged is NOT a good idea.  Swiers 19:19, 14 August 2007 (BST)
18. Keep - Must have. --The Hierophant 19:55, 14 August 2007 (BST)
19. Keep - This only makes sense. --Priapus 20:16, 14 August 2007 (BST)
20. Keep see all above --Jack13 15:43, 14 August, 2007
21. Keep - Well, u got my vote.--  Savant  Chit-Chat  21:06, 14 August 2007 (BST)
22. Keep -It doesn't make sense to be able to put a genny in a ruined building --Pyromonkey 21:14, 14 August 2007 (BST)
23. Keep - Still gotta love bandwagoning.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 21:23, 14 August 2007 (BST)
24. Keep - Stupid generators..there overpowered..Brainz 21:54, 14 August 2007 (BST)
25. Keep - Makes sense, and kind of helps to highlight the difference between ransack and full ruin. A ransacked building, as I understand it, has merely had its contents tossed around and scattered. If you wanted to operate powered equipment, you'd just have to pick it up off the floor and plug it back in. The contents of a ruined building (and parts of the building itself, like walls, doors, and wiring), though, have been smashed beyond the possibility of a quick fix. --Steakfish 21:59, 14 August 2007 (BST)
26. Keep - You mean this isn't already a feature of Ruin? It should be. Otherwise, very cool update, makes things a bit more interesting for one of mah zambahz trying to hold onto his home building against something like 24:3 odds. Also, Steakfish has a good point about highlighting the difference between ransack and ruin. --Mold 22:01, 14 August 2007 (BST)
27. Keep - Never should have been allowed in the first place.--Karek^maps?! 22:03, 14 August 2007 (BST)
28. Keep - What? Nine thousand! As above. - David Malfisto 22:33, 14 August 2007 (BST)
29. Keep - It only makes sense. --Malkav 22:47, 14 August 2007 (BST)
30. Keep - *Hops on bandwagon, sits down with others* -- Pavluk 23:01, 14 August 2007 (BST)
31. Keep - Meh. Why not?--Seventythree 23:18, 14 August 2007 (BST)
32. Keep - Something like this as been a long time in coming.--Drag'n'Feast 23:21, 14 August 2007 (BST)
33. Keep - Makes perfect sense.Chill 00:04, 15 August 2007 (BST)
34. Keep - As many Above! --Evildemon989 ^{Talk · Help · W! · P! · SU! · TJ! · Hai!} 00:27, 15 August 2007 (BST)
35. Keep - Perfectly logical. --Pestilent Bob 01:38, 15 August 2007 (BST)
36. Keep - If a building is smashed to hell, the power systems, much less the computer equipment of a NecroTech lab, shouldn't be working without serious repair. Srekto 02:01, 15 August 2007 (BST)
37. Weak Keep - Makes sense I suppose - however I do take issue with most people's interpretation of "ruined" buildings, though that is neither here nor there --Ryiis 02:06, 15 August 2007 (BST)
38. Keep - Anyone who has ever gotten a brain rot revive will realise how easy it is to break into an NT at a specific hour, and meet up with a buddy to revive you. Also, brain rot is supposed to be final for a reason.... -- FriedFish.ca --01:21 August 15 2007 (BST)
39. Keep - GOGOGO <3 --Heiki 03:33, 15 August 2007 (BST)
40. Keep - what difference does it make if a rotter cant get a revive, you buy brain rot for a reason...you want to get revived? dont buy rot Zoutroi 03:38, 15 August 2007 (BST)
41. Keep - Doesn't make any sense as it currently is. This change gives at least some incentive for a zombie to "ruin" a building rather than simply ransack for less AP. Plus, the physical logistics between the idea of "ransack" and "ruin" gives this suggestion legs. --Waruv 03:48, 15 August 2007 (BST)
42. Keep – Makes good sense. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 06:41, 15 August 2007 (BST)
43. Keep – Yeppers! --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 07:04, 15 August 2007 (BST)
44. Keep - wow, i haven't seen such long keep trains for quite a while --~~~~_T^''' 07:36, 15 August 2007 (BST)
45. Keep - Genny in a ruined building? Perhaps. Working equipment in a ruined building? No-no! -- John Rubin^{T! ZG} 09:58, 15 August 2007 (BST)
46. Keep - Not much needs to be said here. --Gafgar 10:41, 15 August 2007 (BST)
47. Weak Keep It's been said by others: this is logical and fair. It takes only 1 AP and a toolkit to completely fix a ruined building, so it doesn't nerf rot-revives that harshly. I vote "weak keep" solely because I'd like to wait and see how this change actually impacts the game before making more changes. --WanYao 11:18, 15 August 2007 (BST)
48. keep Makes sense.--Elbowhead 12:10, 15 August 2007 (BST)
49. keep if the aim is to mildly assist zombies holding territory then this is needed Mortificant 16:55, 15 August 2007 (BST)
50. Keep - I don't want to help zombies, but I have to say keep. --Vortexx 20:55, 15 August 2007 (BST)
51. Keep - I like it. --User:Axe27/Sig 21:40, 15 August 2007 (BST)
52. Keep - As above, Ruin is supposed to be an improvement on Ransack. The adoption of this suggestion will also remove the dishonorable tactic of using combat revives to clear out a ruined NT building. Ardenio 22:14, 15 August 2007 (BST)

    You willing to give up ?rise, or zombie alt scouts? or, no, wait! how about giving up zombie anonymity?! i think you should give up that thoroughly dishonourable tactic, only cowards hide behind anonymity! What, you don't agree? Didn't think you would... (sarcastic bastard mode now off) So leave CRing out of this. Besides, this won't stop CRing, it just slows it down a tiny bit. Muahahah... --WanYao 00:29, 16 August 2007 (BST)- Non-Author RE.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 13:18, 16 August 2007 (BST)

53. Keep - How does it make sense that a building that's been trashed should be able to benefit from power the same way an un-ruined building can?Njall 23:25, 15 August 2007 (BST)
54. Keep - As it is, there is little to no point to actually ruining a building. Gargle Bargle 07:08, 16 August 2007 (BST)
55. Keep - The building is ruined, as in smashed to bits, as in ransacked beyond all recognition. NO working equipment inside before it's fixed with a toolbox. That's what the toolbox is for mates. Fisu 06:42, 16 August 2007 (GMT)
56. Keep - This gets my vote The Lamb 12:50, 16 August 2007 (GMT)
57. Keep - I wanted rid of the ability to hook up the power in ransacked buildings but the arguments about rotter clinics kinda almost convinced me. But for ruined buildings.... no way! --Honestmistake 13:12, 16 August 2007 (BST)
58. Keep - It's realistic enough. I read your arguments... but how can you operate a revive clinic if even your equipment is in ruins? As Fisu said, "NO working equipment inside before it's fixed with a toolbox. That's what the toolbox is for mates." --  P02 Samuel  Talk to me! Stop that asshole!PoleCats 14:06, 17 August 2007 (BST)
59. Keep - As Murray as well. --Aeon17x 14:50, 17 August 2007 (BST)
60. Keep - Necessary improvement for a lacking update. --Bobs Aturd 20:04, 17 August 2007 (BST)
61. Keep - It's a reasonable change. --Nikitis 17:49, 24 August 2007 (BST)
62. Keep - as Swiers --Bahhab 07:30, 25 August 2007 (BST)
63. Keep - Restoring a ruined building should be as tough for survivors, as it is for zeds to ruin it. Chronolith 13:24, 28 August 2007 (BST)

Kill Votes

# Keep. As Murray Jay Suskind. --Visible One 16:55, 14 August 2007 (BST)

1. Would nerf brain rot revive clinics.--ShadowScope 19:16, 14 August 2007 (BST) EDIT: Then again, I wouldn't scream if it get placed in.--ShadowScope 19:17, 14 August 2007 (BST)
2. Kill - As above. Can you read my mind, Shadow? --Anotherpongo 19:24, 14 August 2007 (BST)
3. Kill - Going against the flow. Would be annoying for the few people who revive rotters. And a gen wouldn't last long in a ruined building anyway. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 20:46, 14 August 2007 (BST)
4. Kill - Good flavor, but would make rotter revive points practically useless, as you'd need many meatshields to protect the building. --Banana reads Scoundrell for all of Yesterday's News, Today! 21:17, 14 August 2007 (BST)

   I agree that it could make things more difficult for a rot clinic. From my understanding rot clinic personnel generally don't occupy the NT they use, so meatshielding is useless there. If a bunch of zombies want to be dickheads and camp out in a rotter revive NT then the staff will just have to clear them out the old fashioned way. With guns. Yes, it will make things harder for those few. No, it won't ruin rotter revives completely. Clinic personnel will adapt. I think very few zombies, much less zombie groups are going to be interested in messing up rotter revive ops.--DonTickles 21:49, 14 August 2007 (BST)

   A fair rebuttal, but I know of no Rot Revive Clinic that has the manpower to revive zombies, continuously replace generators and fuel, and kill any zombies that get in the way. As another deterrent, whenever a NT is ransacked, all zeds must be removed to be able to clear up the building and install a generator, which could take days, depending on how often the docile zombies log in, or cost valuable AP to the clinicians by being forced to remove their customers through the use of weapons. I'm sorry, but the few clinics that do exist have a hard enough time. My vote stays. --Banana reads Scoundrell for all of Yesterday's News, Today! 22:38, 14 August 2007 (BST)Murray Jay Suskind Non Author RE struck.--Karek^maps?! 23:01, 14 August 2007 (BST)

5. Kill- I believe this not only would nerf rot revive clinics, but it would also create an unfair advanatage to the zombies because although most people hate to admit it, combat reviving is just more fun (even if it is a waste of AP) Also, if you wanted to implement this, you could have it so that generators don't last as long, because there are power "surges" or faulty wiring in the building, or how ever you want to justify it.LemonHead7t7 *̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡|͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|]]| ̡̡̡ ̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡*̡͌l̡* ^{Talk/PDA/Red Rum/MOB} 22:46, 14 August 2007 (BST)

   And we wouldn't want any kind of advantage to go to zombies in a zombie apocalypse game. That would just be terrible for the theme of the game.--A zombie01 13:01, 15 August 2007 (BST) Non author re The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 17:03 15 August 2007 (BST)

6. Kill - Some of us prefer to do it the old fashioned way and not give angry players a free ride past our barricades (i.e. not everybody combat revives. We use the generator for nefarious item gathering purposes instead). --dudemeister 23:23, 14 August 2007 (BST)
7. Not Yet Suggestions should not be made involving a new game addition until said addition has had time to play out in the game. I was tempted to vote spam, but I think the suggestion isn't TOO bad. e just have to wait and see how Ruin affects the game first.--Pesatyel 03:53, 15 August 2007 (BST)

   Kill - I don't know about anyone else, but I don't fully understand how ruined buildings work yet, or had a chance to figure out what the tactical implications are. So I don't think we should be tying something so major to it just yet The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 04:26 15 August 2007 (BST)

8. Kill - Not yet. Maybe later. --Midianian 11:11, 15 August 2007 (BST)
9. Kill - Whether or not you agree with combat reviving or not, this is just adding another blow to survivors, since the generator can be used for searching and reviving revive queues too. If you're in an area with practically nothing (like NW Malton ATM) you need needles from somewhere. --Marie^{The Grove on Tour} 13:20, 16 August 2007 (BST)
10. Kill - too soon, wait and see how ruin pans out Sanpedro 05:32, 17 August 2007 (BST)
11. Kill -- CR is a fact of life. Learn to cope with it. --Firemanrik 19:38, 18 August 2007 (BST)
12. Kill - I really like the imagery of sitting in a ruined building, stuff all around, huddled around the generator. --Pgunn 18:56, 23 August 2007 (BST)
13. Kill - I think of putting a generator up in a Ruined building more along the lines of "you leave a generator in the building, removing a large load from your hands in preparation for retaking the building". Who says you need to necessarily hook it up?--Private Mark 21:06, 23 August 2007 (BST)
14. Kill RRCs have enough trouble as is. What your proposing would require a Staff in every time zone, because you can't fix it when Zombies are there, and the one who wants to get revived will then need to go in once he/she gets the "All Clear" signal. Oh, and are you aware of the cost it takes to find, set up, and fuel a Genny, and then use Syringes (that also had to be found/made) on zombies at 10AP a pop? Or the number of Paratroopers/PKings that would result from such an action? Only Labcoaters or 'Burbs in dire need of Syringes do that. That's because most of us know the risks. Second, the 16% weight of the Toolbox is quite enough to make things difficult, especially since it was implemented right before Bale fell again, and we had to import one. Lastly, NTs are the only places someone would waste the AP to put up Gennies with zeds still there, so they could CR everyone there. Why not just deal with getting CR'd. As they say, "War is Hell". --Driaquer 04:29, 29 August 2007 (BST)
15. Kill Getting revived is a very small detriment. Just deal with it --Ju Ju Master 01:44, 31 August 2007 (BST)
16. Kill already said all my points. --Afterdeath 22:25, 31 August 2007 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Needing a toolbox (16% encumbrance) to repair ruined buildings is quiet enough of a survivor nerf for now, thanks very much The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 17:01 15 August 2007 (BST)
2. As I said before, - Remove toolboxes and we'll talk.--Labine50 ^MHG|MEMS 06:50, 16 August 2007 (BST)

   Even the AP deficit and we'll talk.--DonTickles 18:28, 17 August 2007 (BST)

   AP Deficit? What AP Deficit? --Private Mark 17:26, 25 August 2007 (BST)Non author re--Karek^maps?! 21:24, 25 August 2007 (BST)