Suggestion:20071228 Tangling Grasp affects barricade attacks

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Reviewed.

20071228 Tangling Grasp affects barricade attacks

WanYao 11:32, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion type
zombie skill / attack change

Suggestion scope
zombies

Suggestion description
This suggestion represents a zombie managing to get a strong grip on part of the barricades, slightly improving his chance of destroying a section of the barricade on his next attack.

Zombies possessing Tangling Grasp will have the skill's mechanic apply to barricade attacks. Thus, if you score a successful Hands attack, you gain a +10% bonus on your next attack vs. barricades. If you miss, you have the normal 50% chance of losing your Tangling Grasp.

The 10% bonus would be applied before halving the hit % against barricades (60% / 2). So the final hit % with a Grasp would be 30%.

The one thing that would differ from a normal Tangling Grasp is that another zombie could not "steal" your Grasp versus barricades.

This is intended as a very simple and (I think) eminently logical way to give zombies a small improvement against barricades, without being a game-breaking buff. There are no new skills or complicated, game-altering mechanics -- just a small extension of how the current skill applies.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Author Keep - A small but helpful improvement for zombies. --WanYao 11:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
2. Keep - I can see how this would make sense too, Maybe the zombie grabs hold of a structuraly important part of the barricade and just keeps tearing.--Seventythree^Talk 11:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
3. Keep - Small, but a step in the right direction. - Grant 12:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
4. Keep - Makes sense. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 13:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
5. Keep - Barricades are overpowered, and before anyone votes kill I ask you to quickly make a zombie if you do not already play one and have a go at attacking the barricades so you can see them for yourself.--Thekooks 13:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
6. Keep - As Kooks. --The Hierophant 13:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
7. Keep - Ryiis' vote made me laugh for a good ten minutes.--Karek^maps?! 16:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
8. Keep - While I don't agree that barricades are overpowered, I do think that zombies need a small boost to be more effective against them. This seems reasonable.--Actingupagain 16:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
9. Keep A small boost that might not be needed by hordes, but would be a great little tweak to ferals.--Mayor Fitting^{Talk RR} 16:48, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
10. Keep Pro-feral? I'm all about it. --TriPolarClicky! 16:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
11. Keep - Those kill votes have obviously never played zombie in any capacity other then that of a Mrh? Cow Bobs Aturd 17:05, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
12. Keep - the game is getting boring. we need something to keep it fresh. this might help a little.--'BP^Tmz 17:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
13. Keep - Good for ferals, good for the game --DonTickles 17:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
14. Keep - I like it, being a feral is hard sometimes --Wisuguya 17:56, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
15. Keep- I think it's reasonable, it wouldn't give the large hordes any major boost and it will help out your average feral. Feral zeds have it hard out there.--Lord Wulfgar 18:31, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
16. Keep - good suggestion --Barroom Hero 18:53, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
17. Keep - Sure. --Heretic144 19:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
18. Keep - It's perfectly fair and realistic.--Kolechovski 20:24, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
19. Keep - Grabbing stuff is just so silly! BoboTalkClown 20:56, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
20. Keep/Change - as Ryiis. Good enough though. --Druuuuu ^OcTRR 19:47, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
21. Keep - An extra 2 hits after spending 40 AP on barricades isn't gonna ruin game balance, but the grip message IS gonna encourage solo zombie players. As for hordes not needing a boost- yeah, it saves the horde as a whole a few AP taking down a heavy barricade. Hordes have AP to burn, so that doesn't really help them any. Actually, what this does is makes the ferals who FOLLOW the horde more dangerous...  Swiers 22:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
22. Keep - Barricades are horribly overpowered and need to be knocked down a notch. --User:Axe27/Sig 23:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
23. Keep - Even though they are the real line of defence for survivors, making zombies more powerful wouldn't be minded by me. Means more stratigic playing. Acoustic Pie 23:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

    Yes, barricades are survivors' main and best defence against zombies. Which probably explains the vociferous opposition from some people to this ultimately quite small zombie buff. However, that's the thing: barricades are very powerful... ferals in particular can really use a little help dealing with them. --WanYao 23:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

24. Keep As above. Grabs hold of planks and continues to pull. ----Secruss^|Yak|Brahnz!|CGR|PKA||EMLN|Templates|RRF|RFTM|Crap|WHOZ||MU|GN|C2008||01:41, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
25. Keep GGRRAAAAGGHH!! FIND PAI QUICKER! --Talunex 02:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
26. Keep - Makes sense. Sheana ^{T / TMZ} 03:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
27. Keep - Barricades are an overpowered scourge on the game that are all too often employed for greifing purposes, both for and against, and exceptionally vulnerable to both bots and zergs. While this wont remove those problems, it will make it much easier to deal with the effects. In other news, i havent voted keep on anything for a very long time. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 04:41, 29 December 2007 (UTC) EDIT - Its nice how this suggestion has seperated the trenchcoaters from the rest of the pack. You can find them in the other two sections. Actually, its generally not hard to spot them anyway, but this just seives them out a lot neater than most other suggestions. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 07:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
28. Keep I am with Grimch. Barricades are overpowered, and they need to be nerfed. I think that this is great. It seems fair to me and it is a good idea. --ramby 05:39, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
29. Keep I think this is important for ferals, who, unlike dead survivors being revived, do not get much in the way of free help. --Holinerhed 12:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
30. Bill Clinton - yesireebob. --Karloth Vois ^RR 14:39, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
31. Keep My zombie alt personally does not have any problem with tearing down a barricade easily. However, making it a bit easier wouldn't harm anyone --Happy doodle 15:19, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
32. Strong keep - I love the idea, gives the the zombies a chance against the harmans--Worthog117 15:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
33. Keep - -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 22:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
34. Keep- I'm for more useful skills! --Darth Lumis^{T! A! E! SR} 01:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
35. Keep/Change - I've changed my mind after some discussion. This isn't an overpowered change, though I still stick with my original vote commentary regarding the change of the Tangling Grasp mechanic (with regards to this suggestion and barricades). --Ryiis 01:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
36. Keep/Change - Maybe make it a separate skill from tangling grasp? so it isn't so powerful? just my two cents... =D --/~WOOT~\ 04:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
37. Keep - Whitehouse 15:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
38. Keep - Improves TG and nerfs barricades the smallest amount possible, I like it. --Beauxdeigh 07:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
39. Keep - While I don't believe cades are overpowered, I don't think it's to much to assume that tangling grasp wouldn't work on cades as well.--John Blast 19:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
40. Keep- Definitely want this to be implemented. -- BKM 01:31, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
41. Keep - Absolutely! -- John Rubin^{T! ZG} 14:10, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
42. Keep I like the idea! Does zombies loose the grip when a "Part of the barricade collapse?". If so... Keep!! Johaen 19:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
43. Keep - Yeppers. --_Ducis ^Dux_Sloth^Talk 14:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
44. Keep - A splendid suggestion. --Hhal 16:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
45. Change Make it losable like normal grasp and you got a feral boost but barely any effect on a horde. - Pardus 22:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
46. Keep – Looks good to me. Anything that helps prevent needing 100 AP to take down 17 barricade levels, as I have seen happen all too frequently… ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 07:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
47. Keep – As per all those people above. --Nikitis 16:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
48. Keep - Those who know me should know how I feel about barricades and their effect on game balance. Hence, no further explanation is necessary. --Reaper with no name ^TJ! 17:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
49. Keep - With one edit: A possible fail, say your arm(s) getting stuck or caded onto from inside could cost 1AP to free yourself again before you attack some more. 5% chance, maybe only possible when building is caded from the inside? --McWaffle♥ 18:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
50. Keep - Per pardus Inky 20:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - "Maybe the zombie grabs hold of a structurally important part of the barricade and falls down with it when he tears it down." I don't like this because: 1. I still think it's silly for tangling grasp to work against barricades. 2. I don't want barricades weakened because-> one survivor should be able to stave off one or two zombies when the survivor 'cades to VSB++ without logging in constantly to check on it. --Ms.Panes 12:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

   What is so silly about a zombie getting a strong grip on a static object and then continuing to tear at it? Also, the statistical effect of this suggestion would be anything but game-breaking. Even with it only an absurdly lucky lone zombie could kill a 60 HP survivor behind a VSB+2 barricade. In any event, a solitary survivor in a VSB+2 building is supposed to be insecure. Either cade higher, or find some safety in numbers. --WanYao 14:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

   It's not static - a successful hit causes the game to say, "You smash at the barricades. Part of it collapses." Anyway, "insecure" and "totally boned" aren't the same thing. You're still insecure, 'cause as soon as that 2nd or 3rd zombie moves in it's either run or die. And unless you keep popping in and out of your safehouse to check, you never know when that extra zombie has stopped by. --Ms.Panes 07:45, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

2. Barricades are not overpowered. You wanna know what's overpowered? Ruins. But we've learned to live with it. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 14:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
3. Kill - seriously bad idea--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 14:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

   What is so bad about a very minor assist to attacking overpowered (yes! overpowered. exactly.) barricades? --WanYao 14:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

   The fact that they are fine as is. My zombie manages them fine, and he is feral, whiners who don't understand working for your food can too--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 14:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

   Kill/Change - Hug wood? I'm just kidding, but to be serious, there is only one thing that I don't like about this suggestion. You are attempting (at least, within the confines of the suggestion) to change the skill mechanic of Tangling Grasp. "The one thing that would differ from a normal Tangling Grasp is that another zombie could not "steal" your Grasp versus barricades." Listen, I think it is a good idea for ferals to get a boost - because they are the ones that get screwed. But Hordes... well Hordes are a horse of a different color - and they definately don't need a boost. --Ryiis 14:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC) changing my vote --Ryiis 01:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

4. Kill- the only thing between a survivor and waiting for days in a revive queue is barricades. it's already hard enough to keep hordes of zeds out, and all survivors need is a new zed skill that makes it that much worse. i'm agreeing with Ryiis that if any thing is overpowered in this game, ito be ruins. or beers.--Dollar menu 17:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
5. Kill/Change - as Ryiis. --Funt Solo ^QT 17:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
6. kill - Who cares if the zombie grabs a piece of the barricade? It wasn't moving very fast to start with. Besides, I have played a zombie, and barricades are fine. The Mad Axeman 17:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
7. Kill - Killing barricades is easy enough as is. --Private Mark 18:28, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
8. Kill- Barricades are unwieldy pieces of woods, metal, and other solid, heavy things, not clothing, hair, and flesh. --GUMBjork 18:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
9. Change - A good idea. However, how about attacking gennys, and decorations? If you could get a grip on something as huge as a barricade, why not a generator? Considering thus far that zombies only get XP from the destruction of the genny itself, there have been many a time when a zombie flailed away at a generator, heavily damaging it but running out of AP before getting to destroy it, only to come round later to realise that someone else had destroyed the generator and stolen the XP. Why not change that by giving that first zombie an advantage? ~Ariedartin • Talk • A KS J abt all 19:25, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
10. Kill/Change - Make it so only one zombie can grab onto it at once and then we'll talk. --Starman537 04:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
11. Kill - Don't mess with my cades. --Pvt De 04:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
12. Kill - Not the way I picture tangling grasp working - I see it more as learning a better response to hunger. --Pgunn 05:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
13. Kill Played as a feral zed for awhile its not that bad, get a life. Omega 16:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
14. Kill - I always saw Tangling Grasp as an anti-human skill.--GunFox13 21:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
15. Kill - because I don't like it.--Ram Charger 08:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
16. Kill - I'd rather see better in-game communication used to weaken cades rather than a straight out number change. Cades are limited in power b/c they can only be built up so much, and so a few zeds working together can easily take down even the toughest ones. That's what makes them fun. Just changing the numbers around seems a lazy way to deal with the problem. --Pdeq^Talk* 00:31, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
17. Change - As Ryiis. If this could only be used by one zombie at a time, it would help out ferals without unbalancing siege situations. Win-win. --Heinrich Loche 22:14, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
18. Kill – I want to vote for it, but Tangling Grasp is the wrong way to fix the problem with barricades. Ok, so you've tangling grasped that refrigerator. What are you going to do with it once you've pulled it off the barricades? You're going to LET GO and then go grab SOMETHING ELSE. - Rutherford 17:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
19. Kill - As everybody else said. This is stupid and weakens the single most important survivor skill in the game. --Vandurn 14:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - hug wood? anyway, reason for spam is do not mess with rates --~~~~ [talk] 17:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
2. I'm okay with messing with rates. What I am not okay with is Hugging Wood. If you are hugging the wood, you have already destroyed the barricade.--ShadowScope 23:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

   first of all, barricades aren't made of wood... have you ever even READ the descriptions as you build them??? secondly, it's not hugging wood, or hugging anything. it's about getting a good grip, or "hitting" a soft spot or a balance spot and using the leverage/grip so gained. Have you ever actually moved furniture (which is what a large part of barricades are, not wood) or better yet actually torn down an old wooden structure with only your hands and a maybe crowbar (running with them being made of wood)? Well, I have done both, and can tell you this suggestion is realistic. This hugging wood argument is ridiculous... --WanYao 00:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)