Suggestion:20080622 Construction skill change

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	This suggestion has finished voting and has been moved to Peer Rejected.

20080622 Construction skill change

Emerald Green 18:36, 22 June 2008 (BST)

Suggestion type
Skill change

Suggestion scope
will only affect survivors without the construction skill.

Suggestion description
A minor change to the Construction skill, such that the skill would be required to install machinery (generators and radio transmitters) and to fuel generators.

A proposed change for the wording of the skill: "Player is able to build barricades, install and service machinery, and restore ruined buildings."

This change would have minimal impact on most players, and would only affect those without the skill who wish to install or fuel machinery. The reason for the change is to prevent zergers from using throwaway level 1 scouts to install and fuel generators, or install radio transmitters.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Author keep --Emerald Green 18:39, 22 June 2008 (BST)

   Keep - I heartily endorse this service or product --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 18:57, 22 June 2008 (BST) Vote Changed

2. keep - works for me --Scotw 19:00, 22 June 2008 (BST)
3. Keep - A marvellous idea! Pippin says keep --Newton Pippin 19;01, 22 June 2008 (BST)
4. Keep - As someone who works on generators for a living, I certainly wouldn't want someone who can't put a sofa in front of a door to wire a generator into a building. --Delta zulu 19:05, 22 June 2008 (BST)
5. Keep - It's going to finis some problems. I like it. -- 
   •  Nevin McAvoy 
   •  (talk) 
   19:05, 22 June 2008 (BST)
6. Keep/Change - Maybe in America you don't need training, but everywhere else you get a gas station attendant when you refuel your vehicle. If that's the only thing you're going to complain about, then just change the name to "Manual Labor". --Aeon17x 19:09, 22 June 2008 (BST)
7. KEEP - nice idea * puts thumb up*--Minigun4523 20:04, 22 June 2008 (BST)
8. Keep - Fantastic idea. --Papa Moloch 21:08, 22 June 2008 (BST)
9. Keep - Makes much sense in game terms, and a decent amount in flavor terms. Just say in the update something like "repeated damage to buildings has made the wiring unrelaiable, and aging generators are hard to start. Survivors without basic construction skills no longer can accomplish the tasks of installing generators and radios, or fueling and starting generators." I might leave "fuelsing and" out, and allow any survivor to refill / top off a generator that is simply "running low on fuel".  Swiers 21:56, 22 June 2008 (BST)
10. Keep - Swiers has articulated the sentiment best. --Zombie in Pajamas 22:04, 22 June 2008 (BST)
11. Keep - Sounds great. At the very least, it'll annoy zergers who will have to level up their scouts. At the very best, it might keep them from using those accounts to zerg. Thanks for suggesting it! --A raptor 22:10, 22 June 2008 (BST)
12. Keep - I quite like this, but lose the refueling bit. --Nitro378 ^{T JNL} 07:45, 23 June 2008 (BST)
13. Keep - I think it's a good idea to restrict generator/fuel searching to higher level survivors. Apart from the alt abuse considerations, actual newbies should be concentrating on searching for useful items for themselves to level up and be more useful to their group. It's the experienced people that should be giving up their AP to help the group rather than chasing XP -- boxy ^{talk • i} 08:08 23 June 2008 (BST)
14. Keep - Good. Kill voters, it is a moot point how skilled you need to be to refuel a genny however i don't think suggestions need to be too bogged down with minor realism issues.--xoxo 08:44, 23 June 2008 (BST)
15. Keep - Good idea. --Pvt human 10:43, 23 June 2008 (BST)
16. Keep - I like it. --Heretic144 17:08, 23 June 2008 (BST)
17. Keep/Change - I like the idea in general, but i think refueling is taking it too far. F4tal3rror 17:11, 23 June 2008 (BST)
18. Keep - It's ok with me. --Howard Bentley 22:23, 23 June 2008 (BST)
19. Keep - Flavor wise, this makes sense. I have to work with small engine tools every week. They don't require frequent maintenance, but if you don't know what you are doing, eventually the machine will need to be serviced or slowly stop working. However, generators do require some electrical knowledge to hook up to buildings (assuming you are going to power up the actual building and not just some portable lights. Also prevents throwaway zergs, although I'm not sure how common this is. -- LABIA on the INTERNET ^{Dunell Hills Corpseman} #24 - |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ^TMG 00:39, 27 June 2008 (BST)
20. Keep/Change - as per WanYao -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 22:34, 4 July 2008 (BST)

    keep - great idea :thumbsup: Unsigned vote struck. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 12:27, 7 July 2008 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill Almost. But whilst it takes some expertise to set up a genny or radio, i dont think you need training to refuel something. (Sitting in sunny england, home of the attendent free petrol station). --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:59, 22 June 2008 (BST)
2. Kill/Change - Requiring a skill to re-fuel a generator is just plain silly. This might also work better as a new skill, maybe Electrician? --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 19:27, 22 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: - The first time I ever refueled my car, someone had to show me how. It's not hard to refuel something though, so I see the point. I thought about suggesting it as a new skill, but the XP burden on lower level players would be a bit unfair. --Emerald Green 19:38, 22 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: I'd say that refueling generators is easier than cars. And the XP cost is exactly why I said it might work better. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 19:57, 22 June 2008 (BST)

3. Change - As said before, I like this suggestion, but the refueling is a bit much.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  20:09, 22 June 2008 (BST)
4. Change - As my esteemed colleague Billy. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 20:47, 22 June 2008 (BST)
5. Inclined to think it should be a seperate skill. Being able to stack crap in front of the door is not the same as being able to install an electrical device (or fuel said device).--Pesatyel 21:13, 22 June 2008 (BST)

   Kill - Construction is Construction, it has nothing to do with Electronics, Radios or repairing mechanical stuff. And this nerfs some very important survivor activities, maintaining power and non-metagaming communications. And is a big buff to GK/RKers. A lot more game-breaking than you think... And as I've said elsewhere, there are other ways to deal with zergs than implementing bad game mechanics. --WanYao 22:02, 22 June 2008 (BST)

   Re: - Construction is already required to repair machinery, check the skill description. --Emerald Green 22:07, 22 June 2008 (BST)

   Ugh, mea culpa, that was part of the introduction of toolboxes, I think, I forgot. However, I don't think that one point negates my objections to making construction a requirement to simply install radios and gennies and fuel... Radios already require a skill to use effectively (most useful stations are not open), and setting up and putting fuel into a genny is not THAT hard... Requiring Radio Ops to install a transmitter makes sense and I might support that idea, but that's a dupe for sure. --WanYao 22:57, 22 June 2008 (BST)

6. kill As stated before it gives too much power to any anti-survivor i.e. PKers, Gkers, and zombies.--Z1nk666 22:28, 22 June 2008 (BST)
7. So you're saying I should be a construction worker just to install a portable generator or a radio? I think many average citizens know how to install something without the help of construction workers... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:36, 22 June 2008 (BST)
8. Change Lose the refueling bit--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 01:59, 23 June 2008 (BST)
9. Change Make it able to refuel it without the skill, and you got my vote. --Trav 04:33, 23 June 2008 (BST)
10. Change as above (re: refuelling). DanceDanceRevolution 07:43, 23 June 2008 (BST)
11. Kill/Change - Re-fuelling ought not to require any skill or equipment. Next, deal with Radios and Generators seperately. Radio Transmitters need Radio Operation to be installed, and have NOTHING to do with Construction. I support this. Generators could require Construction, or perhaps only a toolbox, I may not support this still, but at least it's considered on its own. These elements should not be tied together in any event. --WanYao 08:41, 23 June 2008 (BST)
12. Kill - You had my support right up until you said that refueling should need a skill. Take that out in the next version and I'll vote keep. Sorry, I forgot to sign this when I first wrote it.--Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 10:55, 23 June 2008 (BST)
13. Kill - Others make good points. Do what WanYao said. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 11:06, 23 June 2008 (BST)
14. Kill - Where's the justification? I mean, how would this be explained? "Survivors all of a sudden got stupider and forgot how to do things"? --Vandurn 15:02, 23 June 2008 (BST)
15. Kill Seems a bit punishing. I don't think generator installation/refuelling needs a nerf. --Jon Pyre 16:16, 23 June 2008 (BST)
16. Change - Make it so generators can be refuled without the skill. --BoboTalkClown 16:23, 23 June 2008 (BST)
17. Kill - As Axe, Jon Pyre and especially Vandurn. Also... Portable Generators are rather simple - you set it down and turn it on. That's it. Fueling generators is even simpler - you pour the fuel in. Where do you pour it in? Usually the place where it says 'Fuel' or 'Gas'. It shouldnt require construction, though using Construction to make a generator -better-.... that is an idea I could support --Tselita 18:06, 23 June 2008 (BST)

    Kill --Secruss^|Yak|Brahnz!|CGR|PKA||EMLN|Templates|RRF|RFTM|Crap|WHOZ||MU|GN|C2008||21:37, 23 June 2008 (BST) Unjustified vote struck. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 23:31, 23 June 2008 (BST)

18. kill switching a generator on is easy. plugging an electrical tool into a generator is easy.... wiring up a buildings lights to a portable generator is a specialist job, change this to reflect that one single fact and its a keep.--Honestmistake 15:34, 25 June 2008 (BST)
19. kill I'm not convinced that this is a major hurt to zergers, but it is a hurt to new folks. Also, Honestmistake - wiring building lights is a specialist job, plugging in portable lights is easy. Theres nothing to say this isn;t the case in UD Sanpedro 02:49, 26 June 2008 (BST)
20. kill-how the fuck does this make sense? i mean, i have no construction training and know exactly how to hook up a generator. --Themonkeyman11 06:03, 2 July 2008 (BST)
21. Kill- It really dosn't take any skill to pour fuel into a hole. Connecting a transmitter may be a bit technical but it isn't going to require skill in 'construction' - Zig13 - 2/07/2008 at 09:39(BST)
22. Change - as Billy, others re: refueling. Neuromanc3r ^U! 17:33, 3 July 2008 (BST)
23. Kill- The hell? I'll go with a great saying here: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Hope you can judge my reasoning with that.--drawde ^{DORIS•RR•RRF•RI!} 16:37, 4 July 2008 (BST)

    Kill- When it comes to this game, players are picking up generators out of hardware stores. As in from stores. They come in boxes with instructions. very easy to do. Skill is definitely not required. And the fuel tank would be both obvious, labeled, and again, would be in the instructions. So it doesn't really make sense to do this with the game mechanics of where generators are found. Tylerisfat 02:49, 7 July 2008 (BST) Late vote struck. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 12:27, 7 July 2008 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Just because I feel like it. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 22:47, 22 June 2008 (BST)
2. Spam - Pointless...--Jamie Cantwel3 ^TalkAll glory to the Hypnotoad! 04:01, 24 June 2008 (BST)
3. Hormel Meat Product - Hell, no! I don't think you seriously realize just how many newbies take part in generator maintaince/gathering! This would have serious consequences. Besides, I don't know much about Construction in real life, but I've never had a problem refueling machinery before! I don't think hooking it up would be that hard either.--Kolechovski 19:48, 3 July 2008 (BST)