Suggestion talk:20071103 Scent-trails

1. keep Worthog117 14:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

This idea has potential, as well

Further discussion on Funt's vote

Kill - Overpowered and unbalanced. To start with, you're giving zombies a key advantage in a real-time fight. You've also thrown in some X-Ray Vision as well with "If there's a survivor in the block, the button won't be shown." Any suggestion that lets zombies follow me in a real-time fight and see through walls - all for free - well, I'd be an idiot to vote Keep. --Funt Solo-QT- 20:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: The X-Ray Vision/seeing through walls I answered in the clarification (sorry for the mess up). The way I see it, this counters the survivor's big advantage of a larger damage per AP. And you can simply lose a zombie by entering a building (and optionally free running away). --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 10:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Re - thanks for the clarification. I'm abstaining for the moment, as I don't particularly like the idea, but have nothing strong enough against it for a kill vote. (Struck my own vote.) --Funt Solo ^QT 11:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I know I shouldn't non-author re, but your "clarification" was really a major change to the suggestion, in my opinion, and while I'm at it I might as well note that the zombies don't have lower damage per AP, in fact they have much better (+10% AND tangling grasp) compared to the axe. Or did you mean in real-time? --AlexanderRM 22:32, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I meant that survivors have a better maximum damage per AP, when looking at a small time-range like a single fight. At their best they can deal out an average of 6,5 damage per AP (with preloaded shotguns), whereas zombies can do less than two.

If you'll look at my clarifications and the original text, you'll see that it's all there, it just might not be the easiest to understand and I'm sorry for that. I dislike redundancy, so most things are only said once in the suggestion, or only implicitly. In future suggestions, I'll try to be more verbose and explicit. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 11:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Further Discussion on Kolechovski's Vote

kill -It is overpowered towards zombies, allows Xray vision against all newbies at the least (they can't Free Run), and it won't increase real-time battles. If you are online when an attack takes place, you don't need some silly scent, especially if the target is near. You're going to be right there duking it out. And even if a zombie follows a survivor out on teh streets, it only takes a few minutes for a kill to take place, so the survivor would likely be gone by the time the zombie arrives if it actually has to follow scent. If you insist on adding such a feature, survivors need an item to screw with it somehow.--Kolechovski 16:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: No X-ray vision as explained in the clarification. Two people have to be only two blocks apart and they don't see each other anymore, so it's easy miss survivors. And no, survivors don't need an item to screw with it somehow. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 17:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: To clarify on my X-ray comment, it would essentially be that. At the very least, it would lead zeds to entry points that they should have to find by themselves, just like survivors do (except feeding groans). At the worst, a newbie who doesn't have Free Running has a scent disappearing inside a building. Gonna be barhah tonight, huh? With that, the zombie basically Xrays the newbie's location, even if he can't see everyone inside. It's just common sense. Second, if you are far enough away that you can't see a survivor, and then you start trailing him, that means he has a good head start. If he's actually going to do battle on the streets, he'd likely have finished by the time you get there. And if you're online when he is, you don't need scent, because you will see him already. Therefore, this is a newbie killer, and it is hard enough starting out already! It would also be pointless due to the scent becoming too old within a couple minutes, realistically. Yeah, it might lead to a stranded survivor on the streets, but he would've been found/eaten anyhow.---I have even more to add now. A square is a large place. If a zombie is standing on one side of the building, and a survivor comes across the other side, how would teh zombie detect that? The survivor would clearly go around the zombie, unless wishing to engage, at which point Scent Trail gets activated. So it would actually be unrealistic to add this feature.--Kolechovski 18:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Most of the game's population does have free running so there is no real guarantee that the survivor would stay inside the entry-point. Remember, you don't know whose trail it is. It could be a newbie's or it could be a level 41 character's scent. Yes, there's a chance that there's someone inside, but there's always a chance that there's someone inside an entry-point.

You only have to be two blocks away to be unable to see someone. Two blocks isn't something I'd call a head start.

Survivors most often don't get eaten in a couple of minutes after leaving their safehouse.

You don't have to follow scents weaker than very strong (one minute). As you said, a survivor might kill a zombie in a minute, but you might make it there before he's done. He's not likely to leave because he just used a lot of time and resources on trying to kill the other zombie.

As for a square being a large place: it's a scent. It gets carried around by the wind and fills the square. Zombies have a very good sense of smell, they can smell survivors they've had direct contact with up to ten blocks away. They can smell other zombies and piles of corpses probably from the same distance. So yeah, it might not exactly be realistic, but it's still consistent with previous skills. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 18:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I can understand your points there. However, looking at the big picture, I'm still doubting it's a good idea. Even though Free Runners likely never stay at entry points, many people still lack that skill and would certainly be inside there. In fact, from what I've seen, newbies have a much larger presence than you might be accustomed to seeing. And being newbies, they have to reside inside entry points. So even if any scent is old, all it takes is a not-very traveled path to avoid conflicting scents, and it would lead any zombies back to an entry point. Even if the zombies has no intention of seeking out the Free Runner, it could still know right where to go to reach a VSB entry point to munch on newbies inevitably staying inside. Normally, a zed would at least have to spend more AP searching for an entry point to attack than it would with a scent leading right to it. VSB areas are easy enough for zeds to bring down and attack the people inside. Making it even easier to do so, at which newbies would be the inevitable victims, is definitely not cool, and it makes newbie life even harder than it already is. Would the skill provide RP joys? Of course! Would it actually be beneficial for the most part? No. Most experienced zombies know enough to attack entry points as it is, and don't need to waste time on scents. To me, this still needs a good bit of work before it can be decently added. Most importantly, making newbie life worse should not be a result, ever.--Kolechovski 18:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I understand your concerns, but I don't think this would increase attacks on entry points that much. They are often spray-painted and announced on the wiki, so their location is no secret. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 18:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

They would be pretty pointless if they weren't easy to find.--Karek^maps?! 22:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)