Suggestions/14th-Dec-2006

Closed Suggestions

1. These suggestions are now closed. No more voting or editing is to be done to them.
2. Suggestions with a rational Vote tally of 2/3 Keeps over total of Keeps, Kills, and Spams will be moved to the Peer Reviewed Suggestions page by a moderator, unless the original author has re-suggested the Suggestion.
3. Suggestions under the 2/3 proportion but with more or equal Keeps to Kills ration will be moved to the Undecided Suggestions page.
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New Fence Rules

Timestamp:	Funt Solo 10:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Type:	New Skills
Scope:	Survivors, Zombies, Junkyards, some Zoo buildings
Description:	Survivors have started repairing fencing in an attempt to hold off the zombie horde - but the zombies are adapting their tactics to compensate. New Civilian Skill: Advanced Construction Prerequisites: Construction Effect: Can repair the hole in the fence of a fenced location (ie Junkyards, the Lion Enclosure, the Bear Pit, the Elephant House & the Giraffe House) at a cost of 2AP. Those with Free Running can still enter the building from an adjacent block, but that is the only way to enter the building. The fence can be holed again with a pair of wirecutters for 1AP. To emphasise, there is no street access or barricade attack allowed, regardless of barricade level, until cut with wirecutters, or otherwise holed - see below. (For those new to the game, these locations were originally fenced at the beginning of the game, but within a few months all the fences were holed with wirecutters.) NOTE: whilst this skill is very limited in scope, it's been named with the view that it may do other things in the future. New Zombie Skill: Rend Metal Prerequisites: Rend Flesh Effect: This zombie's hands are calloused and practically immune to pain. It can use it's inhuman strength to rend metal, and therefore break through the repaired hole in the fencing. If this zombie is in a block that contains a fenced building, with a repaired fence, then it may elect to attack the fencing. This has the same chance to succeed as a barricade attack and, if successful, will hole the fence. NOTE: whilst this skill is very limited in scope, it's been named with the view that it may do other things in the future. Gameplay: a use for wirecutters. a haven against low level ferals. having a building that is immune from entry is powerful, which is why it costs 2AP to do it and only 1AP (with wirecutters) or a potential 1AP (with Rend Metal) to take it down again. Concerns During Discussion Why is no item required to repair the fence? Trying to keep things simple (gameplay) and it's a junkyard (roleplay). Why 2AP to build but only 1AP for a griefer with wirecutters to tear down? The same situation exists (sort of) with generators. The power to lock out low-level ferals is a strong one that needs balanced - thus the 2AP cost. Why 2AP to build but only (potentially) 1AP for a zombie to tear down? It's more likely to take 3-4AP for a zombie to tear down. 2AP suddenly seems quite cheap.

Keep Votes
Rend my metal!

1. Keep - but only because I can't find something I don't like. my only thoughts are that low level survivors, those who would need this kind of temporary safe haven, probably wouldn't have the skill to make them. Higher level survivors will probably not use this because they have enough experience(re:wisdom) to stick near an entrypoint, or even to conserve the AP needed to make one. --Gateking 10:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
2. Not bad - didn't think I'd see a use for wirecutters that I wouldn't spam. My hat's off to you Funt. –Xoid ^M•T•FU! 10:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
3. Seems OK, but I'd rather that the zombie is only given the option to attack the barricades or fence depending upon which is accessible, and it were implemented in such a way that if they attack one but the other is the accessible one it would attack that. Otherwise a zombie player could waste a lot of time and IP hits doing things like: try to attack barricade, but someone put a fence up in the mean time. Try to attack the fence -- oh darn, it's gone already. etc. --ExplodingFerret 11:35, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
4. author, and in reply to ferret - I assumed that if the fence was repaired, then the barricades cannot be attacked. That would be the only way this could reasonably work, which is why I didn't include it in the text. I've also avoided specifics about the enter building button not being there and so on... --Funt Solo 11:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
5. YAYS! A good use for those wirecutters! --Slice 'N' Dicin' Axe Hack 13:16, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
6. Keep - Often we jump on posters for poor spelling or formatting. This one deserves major kudos for being well explained and well organized. --Nosimplehiway 13:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

   Looks to be good, there is nothing really that is terrible. Note though that you will need flavor if you want to find ways to repair the stuff in the Zoo...they too have fences that can be repaired via the suggestion.--ShadowScope 14:56, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

7. keep just because I want to use wirecutters. Asheets 15:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
8. Keep - Most fence suggestions are broken, this one is not. --IrradiatedCorpse 15:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
9. Keep - Great Idea :) --Marie^{The Grove} 16:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
10. Keep - I use both zombies and survivors, and I don't see a problem from either perspective. Zombies can level from churches, hearing feeding groans, or munching on the random outside survivor, while for survivors, wirecutters finally have a use. --Zap 16:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
11. Keep - This would be a good Idea it would give a use to the 'seemingly' useless wirecutters. --Darkvengance 18:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
12. Keep - But make it require wirecutters to fix as well as break, and remove the extra construction skill. Wire is the junkyard equivalent of doors, and should be structured as such. It doesn't take an expert to twist a load of wire together. --Preasure 20:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
13. Keep - Get a few people the hell out of malls.--Labine50 ^MH|^ME|^P 21:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
14. Keep - ok, poopman9 is back, and so is his sense of humor (whicj got him banned for a week by the way). i LOve this suggestion. It helps newbs and pros work together, but my only 2 concerns are that 1: too many zombies will have the "Rend Metal" skill as soon as it comes out and 2: survivors making love can still be seen through the fence holes.... =*-( --Poopman9 23:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
15. Keep - An ingenious spin on a common suggestion, but needs better names than "Advanced Construction" and "Rend Metal." We can still Free Fun into these buildings, right? --Wikidead 00:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
16. Keep- I'd hit this like the fist of an angry god--Admiral Ackbar ^{U! WTF} 00:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
17. Keep Junkyards don't have doors. It seems fitting they have some sort of equivalent defense to compensate. --Jon Pyre 01:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
18. Keep - An excellent solution to the junkyard dilemma.--J Muller 05:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
19. Keep - I love it. --Thelightguy 21:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
20. Keep - Gives wirecutters a purpose again. 'Nuff said. --Reaper with no name ^TJ! 03:56, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
21. Keep - I really like these changes, it's really great to give add flavour to buildings otherwise vanilla. --Dr Leshrac 18:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
    

Kill Votes
I'll tear you a new hole!

Kill - I don't think anyone would use this- with the number of high level zombies around, it'd be like hiding behind a 1 level barricade. --Toejam 11:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC) Vote changed to Abstain.--Toejam 13:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Re - The barricades could still be at EHB, so it's an extra level of barricades that are stronger than any other single level of barricades because a % of the zombie population can't touch them. --Funt Solo 11:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Ahh. I hadn't realised that there would be barricades as well as the fencing. In that case, I'll abstain. --Toejam 13:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

1. Kill - As well as what Toe said, 2AP is hardly very expensive. Junkyards are a haven for leveling up zombie newbs because they have no doors and now you plan to remove that from them?--Mr yawn 11:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

   Re - there are other buildings without doors, but I don't deny it - this suggestion would change things. --Funt Solo 11:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

2. Kill-As Swisers, but not Spammy. Hopefully, it could be fixed, but well, erm, maybe it can't? I say, add in an item that the player needs to SEARCH for in order to make the Fence, like a Bunch of Wires, so that players can spend more AP searching for it. Swisers, if this gets implemented, this rewards death cultists that would be active during any seige. Bring in the Gore Core to take out those Wires during the seige, and you'll defeat them all.--ShadowScope 18:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
3. Kill - While I like the idea of making wirecutters useful, I agree with Mr. Yawn. This would be a big ol' nerf against newbie zombie players, folks who have a hard time getting started as it is. --President James K Polk 22:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

   Re - I see the point, but here's a thing: with junkyards AND churches being non-door locations, that gives new zombie players two targets to choose from - thus splitting them up. By lowering the amount of targets overall without doors (or similar), you actually improve the chance of new zombies successfully breaking in, as they'll be more concentrated in numbers - which anyway is the zombie player's greatest advantage. --Funt Solo 22:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

   Nonsense. I don't buy the idea that halving the number of buildings that beginning zombies can enter improves their lot. By that logic, you should have there be only one location on the map without a door. (Why, just think how easy (un)life would be for low-level zombies; they could all converge on that spot...) Sorry-- while I like (part of) the impulse behind this suggestion, I'm keeping the kill vote.--President James K Polk 23:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

4. Kill - Wow, it's two mostly useless skills that counter each other. Memories of Life is already important enough, we don't need this as well.--Burgan 02:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
5. Kill how would this work as a haven for low-level survivors? they either have to get free runing and find an entry point, or spend 200xp and 2ap to make their own, AFTER finding a vs junkyard without this already done, and then find another junkyard every day. easier to just use a normal building in a safe suburb.--AlexanderRM 9:19, 14 December 2006 {EST}

   Re - sorry, but where did I say it was a haven for low-level survivors? I said it was a haven from low-level ferals, which isn't the same at all. CNR. --Funt Solo 09:22, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

6. KillThis is a silly suggestion... It's ridiculous. The only other buildings without doors are churches. Junkyards should stay the way they are...low levels need the XP.--Jambalaya 19:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
   

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Essentially it allows EHB+3 level 'cades at certain locations, that some zombies have zero chance to affect. And its likely to be faster to repair a fence and build to EHB+1 than it would be to build to EHB+2. Plus there is the extra benefit that the zombies have to ensure both the barricades and the fence go down at the same time, without a survivor repairing either one- so forget sieging one in real time. Obviously, this would be the new "fortress" of choice. Given how many junkyards there are, its even better than the old centralized defenses. Can you say "massive survivor buff"? --Swiers 18:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

   Re - I play zombies as well, and I don't want to unbalance the game. The junkyards don't have doors, remember - which is a defence nearly every other building has that low-level zombies can't get through. That doesn't break the game. In terms of a seige, your fears are unfounded - just one griefer (or death cultist) with wirecutters and the game's a bogie. Plus, it takes 1AP to close a door, 1AP to stick up the first level of barricades (I'm thinking about seiges here), but 2AP to repair the fence - AND it requires a skill above construction. This IS balanced, but it would introduce a whole new dynamic. It's not a game-breaker, though, as you're suggesting. --Funt Solo 18:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

   Re - Doors are (by and large) a non-issue to zeds, because any zed with MoL treats buildings with doors just like ones that have no doors. More importantly, barricades and doors are sequential; you must close the door and THEN barricade. Your fence repair is concurrent with barricading; having survivors be able to work on both at once (and be safe if either is up) makes repelling sieges MUCH easier. This "double barricade" is pretty much like requiring two squares of a mall to be open before any of them can be entered. --Swiers 01:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

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Scent Trail crossover

Author removed - Due to overwhelming non-support for MORE crossover skills. And, honestly, the author agrees! --Matt Scott ⁹ 22:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

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