Talk:Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead

אֱלֹחאֱל ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 08:04, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

This has GOT to be a troll. Ginormous (talk) 08:52, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

No. --Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead (talk) 21:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

So your plan is to annoy and badger everyone until someone puts a lot of effort (and this would be a lot of effort) into something for you for free? Even the donation system would still go to Kevan? (Never mind that it seems reasonable to assume Kevan is the only one who can legally do this since he owns the copyrights to Urban Dead.) You just want someone to do a lot of work for you for free and hand it over? Do you see the problem here? Why can't you learn to code and do it yourself if it's so easy? Ginormous (talk) 22:46, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Well, Kevan made Urban Dead in the first place. He may have since moved on, but this is simply a request. The core programming is already done, so I don't see how much effort would have to go into a simple offline version.

It's truly a great game that has my group and me (and I'm sure many others) addicted to since its 2005 inception. We are only asking that Kevan make a version of the game that can be playable offline. We also would only ask someone else to make it if it is legal to do so and with Kevan's blessing. However, it may be legal to make a similar game if it's not an exact duplicate, anyway. If Kevan has a problem with this, he can prohibit it.

Kevan should also get optional donations from this as he is the creator, so that's only fair. If someone else legally makes a game similar to Urban Dead, then they have the right to ask for donations as well.

Also, it seems a bit much by saying that we expect someone to do a lot of work and just hand it over. Many tech-smart programmers make free applications and games for free in their spare time. They even ask for ideas. We are simply giving ideas as to what we would appreciate. --Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead (talk) 23:26, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate the considered reply. Yes, I've played since 2005 as well and obviously am still interested otherwise I wouldn't be here. I suspect the core programming for UD couldn't be ported into an Android app or whatever you're envisioning without a re-write, but that's not my area of expertise. I suppose my two remaining questions are one, why don't you just contact Kevan directly? His website https://kevan.org/ provides a number of ways of getting in touch with him. Two, when is the spam tagging enough? You and your group are overwriting local tags regarding groups, barricades, and other information - and not just once, but repeatedly. Not only is that a bit rude, but it's really boring. Will you keep this up this spamming until you get your game? Ginormous (talk) 01:58, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

I thank you as well, for not going the popular way of just writing this all off as being a troll or a troublemaker.

I've always wanted a way to play UD (at least in some form) offline. What made me see it as possible was an app called OffLine Browser. It's an Android application where you can save any website for offline browsing. It sort of works with Urban Dead, but your character can't move or interact with much of anything. So with a little tweaking, I figured that maybe Kevan or somebody could (legally) make it work. I'm not a programmer either, but I would like to see at least something similar to this.

I would contact Kevan directly, but I heard he likes his privacy, so I try to respect that. I figured it would be better if Kevan just sees the requests about this if he checks on the game on his own time and on his terms.

About the graffiti tags: Other groups encourage their members to tag all over their territories, so we thought it was fair game to keep doing it. I can advise the rest of the group to not keep spraypainting in the same spots if they're obviously being tagged for group information, etc.--Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead (talk) 02:48, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

I would still advise attempting to contact Kevan in good faith since you would need his blessing if it were a straight interpretation of Urban Dead - you would have to sooner or later. He doesn't actually pay much, or maybe any, attention to what goes on in the game, or necessarily here either. (Buying an ad on the log in/log out pages could do it.) Also, there's no other way you'd be able to get the coding. Adding the things you've suggested, such as AI NPCs, will take work so it would be good for you to have a pretty concrete idea of what you wanted. Also if Kevan says, 'No' and you want something similar, but different, you will need to build from scratch. You might want to investigate places where up and coming developers communicate and propose the idea there, rather than shouting it into the winds of Malton. Most of the UD forums are defunct, but UD specific places to ask around still exist (on Discord, for example).

On the subject of tags, I'm guessing you don't want to generate ill will about your project so do be cautious about where and how often you do it. Too much comes off like a demanding kid or a troll. You're making a strong request without providing a way to follow through or discuss it, or even saying why anyone else would want this. I know that's a lot for 50 characters, but that's one reason that may not be the best way to find the programmer you're looking for. Ginormous (talk) 09:21, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. Speaking of developer/programming sites, I saw some broadcasts claiming there are already offline versions of Urban Dead (or similar clones) on the Github website. I searched around the site, but all I could find were projects that didn't make much sense to me. Are you aware of these or know if they're legal and how to use them if so? Also, if Kevan didn't publish the UD coding, how did they get it? Did they start from scratch? --Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Afraid I can't help you there, but I would look at the dates on those. Could be they're clones from the heyday of UD's popularity. It's not, compared to games today, super complex in its original form. A lot of things we take for granted have been tacked on over the years. I doubt they would have gotten the code legally, so likely built from scratch. At least that would be my theory, but I really wouldn't know. Ginormous (talk) 23:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that could be it. There have been other games similar to Urban Dead, so these could be the same basic idea done from scratch. --Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead (talk) 20:35, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

How would an offline version even work? You'd be the only person in Malton. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 10:15, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

An offline version of Urban Dead can implement non-playable characters to make up for the real players. Or it can even have the option of creating each and every character and choosing which ones you can control and which ones to act on their own. You might even be able to control certain characters at different times, depending on your mood. Survivor and zombie alike. It would be like a type of zombie apocalypse simulation game. You wouldn't have to worry about zerging or cheating, because the rules would be up to the player. There are many possibilities. --Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

See, this idea alone would be a lot of new coding to be done. Every last bit of this kind of minor AI and customization would need to be figured out, defined, written, debugged, and play tested. Every last detail is a decision with a mechanism behind it. Ginormous (talk) 23:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

True, it would take some (maybe even a lot) of work, but great things usually do need at least some work. --Please make a Free Offline Version of Urban Dead (talk) 20:35, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

You can't say this wouldn't be a lot of work but also require the programming of an AI that mimics average human UD players... DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 08:51, 11 May 2022 (UTC)