Difference between revisions of "UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Voting Eligibility (2)"

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#'''For''' - But change the minimum up to 5 edits. --[[User:Angusburger|Angusburger]] 20:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
#'''For''' - But change the minimum up to 5 edits. --[[User:Angusburger|Angusburger]] 20:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
#'''For''' - it's one edit people, he's hardly constricting voting to highly active users.--{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 03:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
#'''For''' - it's one edit people, he's hardly constricting voting to highly active users.--{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 03:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
#:So basically, your argument ''for'' it is that it can't do anything so we should add it as a policy. That is essentially what all the keep voter's arguments seem to be right now, it's worthless so we should make it the rule of the land.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
#:<sub>discussion moved to [[UDWiki_talk:Administration/Policy_Discussion/Voting_Eligibility_%282%29#From_policy_voting|talk page]].--{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 23:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)</sub>
#::No. I'm saying the effects are minimal and only restrict those users who care so little about the wiki as to not have made ''a single edit''. The against crowd are screaming out about censorship etc however all this will do is ensure the most lazy meatpuppets can't vote, everyone else still can.--{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 05:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
#:::You basically just repeated what I said while trying to put it in a positive light. There's no such thing as lazy meat puppetry, they're a moved base driven to do something for external reasons, all one edit would do is have them spam a talk page or something for voting rights, in saying this policy has minimal effect you're trying to claim ''that'' as a positive effect, it isn't. Where is the good that comes from this policy? Saying it basically adds a step to the registration process isn't a useful answer and claiming that will stop anyone isn't an honest one.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 07:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
#::::I think you'd be surprised how having to make an edit before discussion starts is likely to put off someone who is otherwise totally uninterested in the wiki. It's quite easy to go onto a forum and say "go vote for this ''know''"... quite another thing to go and say "go and edit the wiki so you can vote in a week or two's time". Internet attention spans arn't very long <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 07:48 4 December 2008 (BST)</small>
#:::::Rather I'd be surprised at how un-dedicated you all seem to think these users are. The Goons were dedicated, this wouldn't have stopped them for an instant, they also happen to be the main argument behind this entire policy. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 07:56, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
#::::::Nope, they were just the most obvious example of meatpuppetry. I'm sure the DHPD, RFF, RR... hell, every major group, has done it. This just makes them put some actual planning into it, which will put most of them off in most cases (which are spontaneous rather than planned votes) <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 08:03 4 December 2008 (BST)</small>
#::::::If memory serves me well, Akule once made a list of ALL votes that have been rigged by the RRF, MOB, Resentized, and all other forums whose majority of users barely used the wiki but for reference. And there were plenty of cases where meat puppets made their way. The goons are not to worry anymore, but they were the most obvious and most recent case --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User talk:Hagnat|talk]] [[Special:Listusers/sysop|mod]]</sup> 14:47, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


===Against===
===Against===

Revision as of 23:53, 4 December 2008

Problem

Unlike sysop promotion, where the overall opinion is only taken into account before the bureaucrats choose to promote a user or not, bureaucrat promotions, policy discussions and deletions can be manipulated by users to force their will by asking friends (so called meat puppets) who never used the wiki to vote in their favor.

Policy

Right to vote

For a user to have a right to vote on any administration voting processes (like policy discussions, bureaucrat promotions and deletions) he must have done one (1) single edit to any page before the beginning of the election. For policy voting, this means the day the policy was created.

Any user can strike invalid votes from users who didn't have the right to vote before the election begun.


Appeal

Any user whose vote got struck can ask its vote to be validated by pointing to a page where he made an edit before the beginning of the election. This action should take place on the discussion page of that election process, and the user must wait for a sysop to confirm the veracity of the edit and to validate the vote.

The user must request his vote to be validated before the end of the voting process. If a vote is struck in the 48h before the end of the voting, the voter has 48h to request its validation.


Pages Affected

List of pages affected by this policy

  1. policies
  2. bureaucrat elections
  3. deletions
  4. deletion scheduling
  5. speedy deletion

Any voting process (where the amount of votes determines the outcome of the administration actions) that occur in any other administration page (those under the UDWiki:Administration namespace) will also be affected by this policy.

Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, signed, and timestamped. They can take one of two forms:
  • # comments ~~~~
    or
  • # ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above will be struck by a sysop.

The only valid voting sections are For and Against. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

For

  1. Keep - Author vote. --People's Commissar Hagnat talk mod 11:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. For - I see no harm done if this policy passes. Most wiki policies, sysop positions, deletion votes etc only affect the wiki, and not the game. Linkthewindow  Talk  11:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. For - Same as Linkthewindow above. -- Ωmega360 Small septagon.gifT 13:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. For - I hate Iscariot. --Sonny Corleone DORIS MSD pr0n 19:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  5. For - This will keep meat puppeting down at least a little bit, and it'll help the Wiki going strong and updated by motivating people to go and make edits. --Darth Elsij 23:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  6. For - I'm sure this will not solve the problem, but... I figure it couldn't hurt. --Lois Millard 02:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  7. Four - Because this is the absolute minimum to expect from a user before voting on internal wiki matters -- boxy talkteh rulz 02:38 3 December 2008 (BST)
  8. Fore! - Asking for "proof of the right to vote" is standard procedure. On the wiki, being an contributing member of the wiki is a valid criteria of "citizenship". --WanYao 05:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  9. For Although not perfect it is better than nothing. I personally would like to see deletions removed from the list and allow meaningful contribution to the discussion preceding a vote count as your voting right... What counts as "meaningful contribution"? I think its a case by case thing which could be too contentious to implement.--Honestmistake 09:36, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  10. For - In any system in which voting occurs, attemps must be made to cut down on 'meat puppeting'. --Parker Andrews 18:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  11. For - But change the minimum up to 5 edits. --Angusburger 20:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  12. For - it's one edit people, he's hardly constricting voting to highly active users.--xoxo 03:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
    discussion moved to talk page.--xoxo 23:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Against

  1. Against - This policy is detrimental to the integrity of the wiki and is based on the very irrational fear of people we don't yet know conspiring against us.--Karekmaps?! 11:23, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. Against - For two reasons. First, this should have been pretty much confined to 'crat elections. People who have never edited the wiki should still be able to vote on the actual content (deletions and speedy deletions) and things that directly affect the content (policies and scheduled deletions). Second, requiring one single edit, ever, is just not enough to make any kind of sensible distinction. This policy is both too much and too little. --Midianian Big Brother Diary Room: [512,02] 12:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
    It might not be enough to make the distinction, but still helps avoiding meat puppetry... even if by little --People's Commissar Hagnat talk mod 13:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Against - As Karek (and myself on the discussion page.) And Midianian here. One edit is pathetic and won't stop anything. Any requirements for voting discourage participation.--– Nubis NWO 13:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Against - I don't think this policy's going to prevent meat puppetry. A user could tell his/her friends: "listen, we have this policy, make one edit so you'll be cool for wiki's next discussions". Nope. --Janus talk 15:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  5. Against - We have no real problems with meat puppetry, and we already have enough tools to deal with it in the most unlikely event that it ever becomes a problem. This solves nothing and only results in lowering legitimate participation. A poor solution for what isn't a problem.-- Vista  T  16:01, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  6. Against - --Thadeous Oakley 16:32, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  7. Against - Good thing I can still vote on things like this. I still lurk, and meander through the wiki. If something strikes me (though little has as of late), then I'll comment. --Ryiis 19:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  8. Against - What Vista said. And people, meat puppeting is not that big a problem! I haven't seen any cases of it looking back thru the archives, and anyone who is determined to do it will create an account and bypass this. --Pestolence(talk) 21:35, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  9. Against - Even if it were a problem, this is a very poor solution. --Pyrranha 22:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  10. Against - Tries too hard and goes too far. If it was just 'crat elections and polices then yes. Deletions are too far. -- Cheese 22:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
  11. Karek makes a strong point. Amazingly, but yes. I'm with Kerek on this one. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 00:08, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  12. Against - I was really on the fence about this policy, but I don't think this is the best way to prevent meatpuppetry. --ZsL 00:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  13. Against - Defeats the very purpose of this wiki.Chill 01:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  14. Against - part of the wiki is that it allows people to decide on how it works. This here makes the wiki unfriendly to new users. --Lt.G Deathnut | TheStayPuftMan 02:33, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  15. Against (See above) --Secruss|Yak|Brahnz!|CGR|PKA|800px-Flag of the United States.svg.png|EMLN|Templates|RRF|RFTM|Crap|WHOZ|Evil3.gif|MU|GN|C2008|Chippy.gif|21:26, 4 December 2008 (UTC)