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Once a year, all sitting sysops will come up for re-evaluation by the community. The idea of this re-evaluation is to ensure that each sysop still has the trust of the community, which is vital for a sysop to have. This will give the community a chance to voice their opinions about how the sysops have been doing, and re-affirm or decline their trusted user status.

The idea of a sysop being a trusted user is a part of the guidelines for the general conduct of a sysop. The guidelines for the re-evaluation is the same as for being promoted to a sysop (which is reposted below), but with a few minor changes in wording.

Guidelines for System Operator Re-Evaluations

Once a year, on Urban Dead's birthday (July 3rd), all sysops will be subject to a community discussion. Sysops may also put themselves up for re-evaluation at any time (see below). All users are asked to comment on each candidate in question, ask questions of the candidate, and discuss the candidate's suitability for continuing to be a System Operator. This is not a vote. It is instead merely a request for comments from the wiki community. This will continue for two weeks, as all users get a chance to air their opinions on the candidate.

Once the two weeks are up, the Bureaucrats will review the community discussion and make a decision for each candidate based upon it. The user will be notified of the status of their re-evaluation, and will be retained in their position should it appear that the community is willing to continue to accept them as a System Operator. In the event that the decision is negative, then the sysop will be demoted back to regular user status, where after a month's time, the user can re-submit themself for promotion.

Before users voice their opinions on the candidate who wishes to continue their System Operator status, the following guidelines should be reviewed by the user:

General User Guidelines for System Operator Re-Evaluations

Before voicing their opinion on a candidate's re-evaluation bid, a user should consider some of the following questions:

  • Has the candidate spent significant time within the community as a sysop?
We define this as the candidate having made at least one edit in the past 3 months. It is recommended that a user look over the the sysop activity check and last 500 edits to determine the level of activity of the candidate.
Note: The Truly Inactive Sysops policy dictates that a sysop who hasn't made an edit within four months is automatically demoted. Therefore, for a sysop to be re-evaluated, they need to have made an edit before that time-frame is up.
  • Has the candidate maintained significant activity within the community?
We define this as at least 50 edits under the candidate's name since their last re-evaluation. It is recommended that a user look over the candidate's last 50 edits in order to get a feel for the activity of a candidate.
Note: looking in a User's User contributions might give false results for this criterion, as the edit history used to be periodically purged on this wiki.
  • Has the candidate expressed interest in maintaining the community?
We define this as clear evidence that the candidate is already performing maintenance tasks and continuing taking a leadership role on the wiki.
  • Has the candidate expressed a desire to continue to be a System Operator?
We define this simply as indicating in the candidate's request their desire to continue to maintain the position.
  • Is there an indication of trust in the candidate.
We define this as a minimum of three other users (preferably users with at least 200 edits under their name and at least one System Operator), willing to vouch for the candidate's suitability for the role.

If a candidate is highly exemplary in one guideline, a certain level of flexibility should be extended to the other guidelines. Other guidelines for qualifications may be used, these are just a few suggested things to consider before a user voices their opinion.

Re-Evaluations still open for discussion

The General

And the next one up on the list is The General. As it is already late in the last day, I'm opening the RE for him. -- Spiderzed 22:12, 3 October 2012 (BST)

  • So I'll kick this one off with a technical question for anyone, not just The General. Are the bot's functions contingent on The General being a sysop? Thanks. Bob Moncrief EBDW! 00:09, 4 October 2012 (BST)
    No they aren't butnhe has the option to run scripts while using his op login to automate op only tasks like mass protecting a list of pages or mass banning a list of spambots. ~Vsig.png 00:38, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
    Thanks. Bob Moncrief EBDW! 08:51, 4 October 2012 (BST)
    Against. Looking back at his last re-eval, it seemed like the biggest objection was inactivity, but he was retained under the assumption that activity would pick back up. As far as I can tell, it hasn't. The bot has been run twice since then, once in its most frequent use marking building statuses unmarked (in February), and once substituting a template (in August). In the last three months, he's only been active for a one-week period in August. Although he seems competent and the bot is useful (or would be if it were used more frequently), this seems like a pretty clear against. Bob Moncrief EBDW! 08:51, 4 October 2012 (BST)
  • vouch not a goon. does good work. not a total shit head when it comes to the rules. although he not very active in the BS drama on this wiki. the work he does the behind the curtain more than makes up for it.-- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 00:19, 4 October 2012
  • Vouch --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 00:25, 4 October 2012 (BST)
  • weak vouch Had three months of inactivity since his last eval. I'd not vouch for a less technically inclined or level headed sysop with that kind of show of inactivity. ~Vsig.png 00:38, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Weak Against - Very good sysop, but altogether too inactive. I prefer to prune inactive sysops and then re-promote them when activity picks up (as happened last time with him), rather than keeping them around despite their having gone inactive. It's better security, reduces possible uses for the position as a status badge, and decreases the opportunity for someone who lacks context to offer a poor decision on a ruling or make clerical errors that need fixing (which has historically been a problem with inactive sysops). Activity was cited as a minor concern at his last A/RE, but it's significantly dropped off since then if you check his contribs. That said, I'd fully support his promotion whenever he becomes active again. Aichon 00:48, 4 October 2012 (BST)
  • Against – Just too damn inactive – his contributions for this year fit on a single page. I'll be (pleasantly and shockingly) surprised if he comments on this re-evaluation. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 01:11, 4 October 2012 (BST)
  • Strong against - Nothing of value to add, bar bots which he doesn't need ops to do. Only active when his authority badge is threatened. A ZOMBIE ANT 11:19, 4 October 2012 (BST)
  • Against - As above. --Papa Moloch 17:28, 4 October 2012 (BST)


Saw Spiderzed update the sysop activity table, noting that my re-evaluation was due next, on the 1st of October. That's today in Australia. Have at. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 02:16, 1 October 2012 (BST)

  • Question Where the hell have you gone?  CrunchyCake  T  Breakfast Club 02:49, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Real Life”. *shudder* I'm beating it back into submission though. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 04:11, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Question Due to this set of circumstances, about how what level of hilarious activities can be expected out of your fine self?  CrunchyCake  T  Breakfast Club 12:17, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    About -->|‾‾‾‾‾|<-- yea high. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 13:41, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Okay Any less than that and I will beat you with a stick  CrunchyCake  T  Breakfast Club 00:36, 3 October 2012 (BST)
  • UNAGAINSTsorta active enough. less of a douche than yon. :P fuck you and that damn goon sig. -- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 03:08, 1 October 2012
    I told you once before: I'm a schmuck, not a douche. Far more effective. Tongue :P ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 04:11, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    don't you mean putz!? and Ohhh you awoke grim! nice. as grim than. Grr! Argh! *shaking fist*Tongue :P-- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 04:48, 1 October 2012
    The wiki needs more shiny/animated things. Your sig can only go so far! ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 01:47, 2 October 2012 (BST)
  • fuck you up the arse with a rake. why are you still wasting your time here? The Grimch 04:31, 1 October 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch - After demoting and taking a step back from issues on the wiki I've found myself having less issues with Rev. He's a bit idle lots of the times but he doesn't do wrong when he's here so that's good. I still think some past behavior like dog-piling his way into crat position 'because he could' was a bit unnecessary, but he was good enough that it didn't amount to anything during his term. He also can have desire-to-please issues with friends that can, rarely, bring in some intense disputes regarding his actions when having a conflict of interests. I guess some examples are a goon-related misconduct case and the mayor of malton drama. The latter wasn't a sysop action but it's worth mentioning I guess. Of course, it happens very rarely. But the ensuing debates that occur with Rev (who is a tough arguer and can imo sometimes ignore damning evidence or precedent if it doesn't agree with his point) and the drones can cause many headaches (usually with me it seems) and multiply the drama tenfold. But, it's all a bit tangential in the long run as it's a rare issue in an otherwise stable and helpful sysop. A ZOMBIE ANT 06:09, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Rev's arguing strength is derived from his skill in delivering non sequiturs that don't appear to be non sequiturs at first blush. It's hard to argue with someone who is constantly shifting the topic to something he can better defend without it always being obvious that he has done so. It doesn't help that he'll sometimes argue self-contradictory statements simultaneously if they can be used to counter you, all on the assumption that you won't catch the contradiction (I love doing this to friends in real life, honestly). Aichon 07:46, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Consider the wind. Is it not a physical thing, that can be felt upon the cheek, and can move objects? Yet it cannot be grasped with the hand.
    So, too, just because one cannot grasp the connection between one idea and another, does not mean that it is not present. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 11:16, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    I can see the connections you're making most of the time, but you have to admit that many of them are tenuous or tangential at best, while many others are fabricated from misconstrued words taken out of context, which means that they...HEY! Stop doing that! See? This is what I'm talking about! Aichon 03:15, 2 October 2012 (BST)
  • Question: Any plans to be more active? If so, what do you think will be the actual result? If not, do you want the job at all, in all honesty? If yes, why? If no, why have you not applied for a demotion yet? Aichon 07:46, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    In order: yes, hopeful (medical condition is improving; new, muy expensivo treatment this month should by all accounts have a significant positive effect, plus physical therapy starting soon), N/A, N/A, and technically N/A but I'll answer it anyway: because I signed up for this job and I will keep doing it to the best of ability until it is taken away or I quit this game.
    I hope that adequately answers your questions. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 11:16, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Awww man, get yourself healthy dude. Wiki servitude can wait! -MHSstaff 18:31, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    While Harrison makes several salient statements specifying pertinent points of import, I'm still going to go with a Vouch. Rev is seemingly a bit of a walking contradiction. One minute, he'll be cutting through the red tape to get the right thing done (which I really value), the next, he'll be tying everyone else's hands in red tape on something that is clearly the right decision. In both of those, however, he'll be pursuing it for his own reasons, so we can at least count on him to be consistent in that regard. Thankfully, Rev's interests seem to line up with the wiki's most of the time, or at least enough that I think keeping him around as a sysop is useful, but when they don't line up, he's not afraid to be obvious in his biases or pandering, and most of us can probably think of a few examples of that sort of thing on his part. It'd be nice if he was a bit more impartial, but, thankfully, his outside interests seem to also align with helping wikinewbs who have trouble with bureaucracy, and he's been one of their strongest champions on the sysop team. Aichon 03:15, 2 October 2012 (BST)
  • Y'arrrrrrrrrrrrrr --Karloth Vois ¯\(°_o)/¯ 11:32, 1 October 2012 (BST)
  • Question What's your greatest achievement since your last Re-Evaluation? --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 13:06, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Coming off my motorcycle and giving myself a brain injury. Apparently you're not supposed to pick yourself up, put the chain back on, ride home, and drink the pain away. Who knew? ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 13:38, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Fair comment. Was recently at a festival sponsored by a motorbiking group and the Air Ambulance. Apparently they meet up fairly regularly. --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 14:05, 1 October 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch - Needs to be more active, but all in all, a dependable and knowledgeable sysop. Gets bonus points for not driving the car off the cliff during his first tour of duty as a sysop. -MHSstaff 18:24, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Sysop Team also needs to maintain its quota of motorcycling badasses. -MHSstaff 18:36, 1 October 2012 (BST)
  • Question - The questions about your activeness sprang up during your previous re-evaluation. The same questions are springing up here, in your current re-evaluation. It seems to me you want to keep the buttons, but are too lazy to actually use them from time to time. So why should the UDWiki community opt to keep you as a SysOps? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 20:35, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    I have been using the admin tools, as well as taking other sysop-only actions (ruling on A/VB & A/M, discussions on A/D, etc.) If you had checked the links posted at the top of this and every other re-evaluation for this very reason you would know that. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 23:05, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Lemme rephrase. You have quite a handful of 1-2.5 weeks breaks between edits. Sure, it's better than before your previous re-evaluation, in which you were gone for a month at a time. But! The majority of your button usage has been over a single day's period before running off again. What actions are you taking, or are planning to take, to ensure you'll be doing SysOps tasks more frequently? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 00:00, 2 October 2012 (BST)
    Just because I'm not editing does not mean I am not watching. It just means nothing has crossed the intervention threshold. If I see stuff that needs done and isn't, that usually prompts action. (Also, I tend to batch things where I can. Saves on context switches.) ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 01:16, 2 October 2012 (BST)
  • Hug. Rev is a good boy. The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new 21:18, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    Happy ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 23:05, 1 October 2012 (BST)
  • Rev & Rake 2012 --Karekmaps 2.0?! 03:34, 2 October 2012 (BST)
  • Rev is a pretty competent sysop. The only problems I can see are (in increasing order of how much they bother me): his semi-activity, his personal bias, sometimes being a troll, and that goon sig. DAT GOON SIG, -- †  talk ? f.u. 16:19, 2 October 2012 (BST)
    I suppose you could say that I whipped it out again for the occasion. Sort of a “greatest hits” kinda deal. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 01:08, 4 October 2012 (BST)
  • Vag ~Vsig.png 16:39, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Vouch Anyone crazy enough to put themselves up for another term deserves all they get. --UroguyTMZ 18:20, 3 October 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch Lemme on this bandwagon. --Open the Box Org XIII Alts 22:48, 3 October 2012 (BST)


Since it is already late in the British day, I'm opening Karek's RE, which is due today. -- Spiderzed 18:17, 18 September 2012 (BST)

  • Abstain - He's technically capable, but not mentally.
    I apprieciate that he's (very) active, does the grunt work consistently, while displaying a certain knowledge and expertise of both coding as well as wikilaw. On the other hand, he often can't handle being disagreed with, loves to throw accussations of bias/vendattas and doesn't know when to stop arguing when it accomplishes nothing more then inane walls of text. Although he's been behaving nicely lately, I'm hesistant whether this is an actual change in behaviour or more the result of lack of feasible drama.
    I would be willing to vouch like I did last time, because in the end, I find him capable enough and he brings something different to the table than other ops. However, I can't help but notice that I'm on some sort of shit list of his, and that he prefers to ignore me as much as possible and, in all honesty, I cannot fully support a sysops when said sysops does not support me as a member of this community. Therefore I abstain -- Cat Pic.png Thadeous Oakley Talk 19:23, 18 September 2012 (BST)
    No more so than J3D, I like J3D he's just a good example to be bandied about. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 00:18, 19 September 2012 (BST)
    I'm not J3D, and my point remains. You have accused me of incompetence, bias and encouraged others to ignore me. Clearly there is a personal issue at hand. Look, I'm not asking you to be loveable cuddly teddybear, but I would highly recommend taking DDR's and Aichon points into consideration. Otherwise you may one day find yourself the unwanted heir of Grim's legacy. -- Cat Pic.png Thadeous Oakley Talk 11:51, 19 September 2012 (BST)
    Really? Comparing him to Grim? --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 11:58, 19 September 2012 (BST)
    Clearly I am the heir to Grim's (unwanted?) legacy. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 04:14, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    I endorse this message and/or product The Grimch 04:31, 1 October 2012 (BST)
    See? --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 17:13, 1 October 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch. Same reasons as last time. Personality clashes aside, he's a good op. ~Vsig.png 19:38, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Question - Is Thad's abstain the result of "bias/vendettas"? --Shortround }.{ My Contributions 20:02, 18 September 2012 (BST)
    Hold on there, I never accussed him of being biased against me. I trust him to be impartial, even against me, it just seems to me that he would prefer to see me leave the wiki rather sooner than later. -- Cat Pic.png Thadeous Oakley Talk 20:18, 18 September 2012 (BST)
    Question - Karek, did you get that my first question was a joke?--Shortround }.{ My Contributions 00:01, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • Question. Why is it important to retain dinosaurs on the sysop team? --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 20:12, 18 September 2012 (BST)
    I am a dinosaur (actually, a wiki dragon) and i take offense in that question --hagnat 20:16, 18 September 2012 (BST)
    Shut it haggy. Before I get mainly Cretaceous on your ass. --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 20:23, 18 September 2012 (BST)
    Probably something to do with being willing to argue wiki untouchables because I, or they, were there when those touchables were gently caressed out of a pile of rage and bile. As were most things in the olden days of yore. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 00:20, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch good sysop, will trade with him again. A+++++++ --hagnat 20:15, 18 September 2012 (BST)
    thing is, the wiki NEEDS people with different opinion on stuff that matter for it to work. --hagnat 17:20, 23 September 2012 (BST)
  • Question - What has been your single biggest contribution to the wiki in the past eight months since your last evaluation? Bob Moncrief EBDW! 20:16, 18 September 2012 (BST)
    Since my question has gone unanswered while Karek has responded to several other comments, clearly my opinion is not valued. Therefore, Against. Bob Moncrief EBDW! 01:48, 23 September 2012 (BST)
    I actually forgot about this in the responding to DDR stuff. I don't honestly consider contributions in the light of importance but the really important stuff, in my opinion, doesn't involve Sysop privileges and are more along the lines of this. Mostly these days I cycle anything in queues when I'm on and process bot bans. That's been the bulk of my contributions with the occasional comment on VB or Misconduct, I still haven't had time to go through the A/VD archives but it is on my list for when I have a couple of hours and no work in any of my other adminery roles off site. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 04:27, 23 September 2012 (BST)
    Thanks! I'm satisfied, but given how many others have expressed concern above and below, and that I haven't interacted with you personally very much, I'm going to abstain. Bob Moncrief EBDW! 06:44, 23 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch - He knows what he's doing. I trust he'll be able to keep doing what he's doing. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ #nerftemplatedsigs 20:50, 18 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch Against abstain major asshole. changed my mind again. does good work but is a jerk about it most of the time. -- HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS!   bitch   COBRA!   אמת 23:07, 18 September 2012
  • Against - Personal issues aside, I find his way of dealing with issues on this wiki deplorable, and often seems more interested than arguing a point than actually getting the right thing done, often lying about past events and precedents to convince others that he's right, actions that he's readily condemned in the past when used by other people in the community. This includes threatening users with A/VB cases he never intends on creating, claiming he has a mountain of evidence he just "can't get it", and preposterous denial of three years worth of precedent because he was AWOL for that precedent and "didn't like it". In the latter link he also threatens me with an A/M case with an edit summary but prematurely concludes that it would "fail because Yon would back him up", when there were around 10 other sysops at the time, right. Similar thing happened here, where Karek again complains that spelling Humour the british way on a british based site is wrong, claiming that it's been decided "like five times already" that he's right, even though looking back it seems that most evidence actually proves it's been the exact opposite the whole time. Without doubt Karek has been getting better of late and doesn't pull this shit as often, and I treat him like shit over all of these personality traits and he takes it pretty well. He also has little problem admitting when he's been called out, but people shouldn't have to call a bluff for him to admit he was bullshitting in an argument that has administrative consequences and when things get more intense I wouldn't hold my breath that he'll begin approaching it in an impersonal fashion.
    These are situational links but they really exemplify Karek's attitude towards issues on this wiki and I think the desire to lie to peers to strengthen one's argument is one of the least desirable traits a member of staff should have. A ZOMBIE ANT 01:58, 19 September 2012 (BST)
    Sure, I'll bite the bait.

    This is referring to his behavior against other users driving them to bring him there as a form of harassment in response to his behavior, not as a threat, apparently I wasn't clear enough about that, I could care less about A/VBing him and I actively avoid using that page if I can. There is only one page I report people to and that's A/M in actual abuse cases.

    I sometimes play the devils advocate. Your bid link is an example of that. Would you expect a user to fail a bid on the last day with only a single serious contentful against? Neither would I. However this review bids are a method to also bring up issues that need addressing. I don't take against comments personally, I don't expect another historically abrasive sysop should either. I also tend to type in the tone of the subject, abrasive users occasionally get abrasive responses. The relevance of your bid to my bid here, to me, makes no sense. Especially since that was a case of both couldn't easily access and didn't care enough because it was targeted as feedback for you and people who were aware of what I was referring to.

    The same applies to this. Yes, I was a douche, in response to your overreaction and yes, it was the case of another edit summary being misinterpreted. Which is actually funny because you can see the reasonable response you edited over with vitriol from a gut reaction to an edit summary about a good misconduct case. A good case about any rule or set of rules actually develops the limits and understanding of a that particular rules usage, it does not consist of people defending a person on principal and the people actually deserving of being offended at that comment were Yonnua and Thad, not you. On top of that, the three year old precedent you're siting was created by me so that raises the question of why I in particular wouldn't have mentioned the case at the core of the rule? I've never once lied about precedent and in cases where I'm indefinite or running off memory and not physical source articles I'm staring at when making the statement(believe it or not I actually research these things in contentious cases of actual issue) I generally mention as much.

    And finally Humour, is this seriously still an issue? I made one god damn passing comment in reference to an issue that was settled before it was resettled after I left(your 2009 and 2010 links in that link), it wasn't vehement it was a short little note on the history of the debate over the article while I was passing through. Let. It. Go. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 04:45, 19 September 2012 (BST)
    It's not about the actual topic of humour vs humor, it's not about whether your one against could fell an A/RE bid or whether you take things personally or not. It's simply evidence that I could find from the top of my memory where you'd blatantly misrepresented history, precedent and rules of the wiki to benefit your argument on the subject, presumably hoping no one had the veracity to argue against it or make note of it. Of course, the reason I take such issue to it isn't because of these examples at hand. These links are simply quick examples of an overarching issue where at some points in your history as sysop, you did this on an almost daily basis, but of course I can't remember when and hence haven't looked for proof of it, so these links are the best I have to prove my issue I've had with you for a while now. Nonetheless, doing things like this regularly (let alone at all) is something I'm vehemently against seeing in a sysop. A ZOMBIE ANT 05:02, 19 September 2012 (BST)
    For most of those I wasn't a sysop DDR. That was after I came back before I got pushed into a renomination and most of the incidents you linked are missing information that changes context. Things like the DDR page deletion incident which shows I set the precedent I'm accused of misinterperting. The fact that I actually was the one who emptied the Humour page in the incident that led to it being a redirect and left that way for years and the fact that I actually apologized and rescinded the matthewfarentheit comment in response to your correctly calling me out on mis-remembering part of that 3 year old, at the time, case. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 05:13, 19 September 2012 (BST)
    Alright. For the record as I thought was clear I wasn't calling you out for the Matthewfarreinheit thing, I used it as an example that when wrong you are fine at admitting it. It also accurately sums up my criticism: Whether you realise it or not, whether there's malice behind it or you're just misremembering stuff, using "wrong" information as fact, especially for someone who attempts persuasion as strongly as you, has consequences for people who rely on us to do the right decision by them. A ZOMBIE ANT 05:31, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • Against. Seconding DDR's points for the most part; but I also have to admit I find Karek's punitive attitude to be something I'm uncomfortable with. Obviously I'm not for outright anarchy (well...) but a fan outlet for a browser game is something that should encourage an attitude of fun, competition and jest, and Karek's draconian approach to punishment is something which, while perfectly healthy as advice from the sidelines, is not something I enjoy seeing in a sysop. The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new 02:09, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • Against As DDR & Mis.--Alice Gravesend 03:10, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch - I actually wasn't going to say anything, but honestly even though he's a prick and a liar, as long as he doesn't actively commit misconduct and does throw in maintaining things, I can't really say he doesn't deserve the abilities of a wiki janitor. -- ™ & © Amazing, INC. All rights reserved. Replying constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. 05:12, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • Kinda pulling an AHLG - I've been giving this some thought for awhile now, since I have a few serious objections with the way Karek operates. Quite obviously he's an ass (it's hard to overstate how much of an ass he can be), but that's true for many here. More than that though, he's uncompassionate and far too legalistic. It's taken me quite awhile to peg it down, but those are my two biggest issues with him, and I do consider them to be major ones, since I feel that our job as sysops is not merely to wrangle every letter of the law, but also to try and establish the spirit in which the wiki should be operating. Taking such a legalistic and uncompassionate stance so often serves to poison the way the wiki operates by removing humanity from the equation. Additionally, while I don't feel any animosity towards him, nor has he given me reason to believe he feels any towards me, I regularly find working with him to be unpleasant, primarily due to the abrasive and vehement manner in which he chooses to disagree with others, even over inconsequential matters.

    But despite all of that, I have plenty of good things to say about him as well. I still believe Karek to be one of the most competent sysops we've had. I also trust him more than any other current sysop to stand up for what he believes to be right, and I trust him to be right a good chunk of the time as well. When it comes to technical matters on the wiki, his knowledge surpasses mine, which is exactly the sort of thing that I really like to keep around. His wealth of experience on the wiki is also invaluable, as is the fact that he plays no favorites (his ire is bountiful and he shares it freely with all :P). If I need someone to act as the compass in a difficult situation, Karek is that person more often than not. He's rock steady, even if he's in a different place than I think he should be, though that stubbornness can also be problematic at times.

    Long story short, I have a lot of high praise for him, but it comes with several serious and ongoing concerns. All-in-all, however, I still come down in favor of his A/RE, though it's somewhat tentatively done. Aichon 05:29, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch - 7 misconduct allegations in favor of the defendant, (although this one was misconduct but was Viper's fault). that's good enough. plus i think Karek is a woman...the Hillary Clinton type...we need female SysOps. -- Son of Sin 10:23, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • I had to think about this for a bit, and to weigh the pros and cons.
    There is no doubt that Karek is savvy with the technical side of things, and has been around a lot in the old days. He's also a person of strong convictions who doesn't falter fast from popular pressure, which is to me a very important trait to a sys-op.
    That being said, in the last few months my concerns about his general conduct have considerably grown. In that time, he has been quick to assume bad faith and to invoke non-existant precedent to back up his position.
    In the end, the decisive factor has been Karek's conduct in the recent A/MR request. It is one thing to take up an unpopular stance and to keep it up against all opposition. It is an entirely different thing to start the argument by basing the request on the assumption of bad faith and to make unshakeable claims that the administrative action is inevitable and merely put through the regularly channels by courtesy. That did nothing to solve the issue, but did a lot to fuel drama. In the meantime, out of all users Karloth Vois did the right thing by going to the talk page, adressing Amazing's concerns and providing constructive criticism on how to save the page - which turned out to be as simple as to restart from scratch.
    So, tl;dr: Against for very similar reasons as DDR and surprisingly Thad. -- Spiderzed 19:10, 19 September 2012 (BST)
    That was me noting that I was attempting to provoke actual discussion on the issue, not that it was an inevitability. Move actions are currently something that sysops are allowed to do on a whim, I assumed lack of awareness of this was what lead to incorrect assumptions of my intentions. It resulted in the current discussion on the page now about how to make the page's policies better and it got users who were previously arguing to actually stop and positively participate in the page's development. Which was the idea. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 19:27, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • Against I don't really follow Karek's work. However, since nearly every criticism of Karek's past actions in this Re is met with an explanation of how they are actually wrong or why the actions were justified, it just seems there is more concern on winning than being right. --Open the Box Org XIII Alts 23:21, 19 September 2012 (BST)
  • I dunno with Karek. He knows his stuff with the wiki and does the work fantastically. But at the same time he's really argumentative and creates a lot of unnecessary fights, something I'm not a fan of. Personally I think sysops should try to mitigate drama and step back if it's getting out of hand, but the question really has to be if the good he does outweighs the harm he can do by being argumentative. Imo, that's a judgement call for the crats to make.--Shortround }.{ My Contributions 14:54, 20 September 2012 (BST)
  • So, basically, everybody's saying that Karek should be less of an ass. I agree with them (although he hasn't been an ass against me yet), but his general competence as a sysop balances out quite a bit of it for me. -- †  talk ? f.u. 17:30, 20 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch- Karek does his job and knows the wiki better than most. Yeah, he's argumentative. Yeah, he's Judge Dredd every now and then. But I don't really see that as impacting his ability to carry out his sysop duties. At the of the day, I'd rather have someone competent who knows exactly what he is doing with regard to wiki maintenance and admin tasks, than some model citizen who is never around or not pulling their share.-MHSstaff 21:49, 23 September 2012 (BST)
  • Judge karke has always argued to the best of his knowledge and he knows what he's doing. He's a dick sometimes, yes. But honestly? I'd still rather have an active sysop who's a bit of a dick than some of these inactive fucks. And by that, I suppose I just mean the General. Anyway, w/e. I'm kind of seeing Karke and DDR as what used to go down between ME and DDR, so yeah. PRobably just a phase for everyone.--SA 23:24, 20 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch - fuck sailor moon--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS DORISFlag.jpg LOE ZHU | Яezzens 05:18, 21 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch - Karek takes a lot of flak for making hard decisions and sticking to them, but that's precisely what a sysop should be doing! --Karloth Vois ¯\(°_o)/¯ 11:35, 23 September 2012 (BST)
  • Vouch What can I say? I like the guy :) PB&J 18:16, 26 September 2012 (BST)
  • Eouch – While Karek is somewhat (harh!) abrasive, he does good work – and fact is, you need someone to wear away the crud that builds up otherwise. I witnessed his first reluctant run for sysop, and I still think we're all the better off for having his talents on our side. A vouch for Karek is a vouch for a better UDWiki! I hope that was worth ten bucks! ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 02:29, 1 October 2012 (BST)

You know what? Being a crat should be the easiest thing in the world. You promote, you demote. Every once in a while you mount a coup. Should be easy. But then you get something like this. There's no boxy around, I've given him enough time, and plenty of reminders. So here comes my ruling. Karek's evaluation is cycled as successful.

Now. Here's my reasoning. As I'm the only one making the decision, and as you people always love it when I talk, here's the in depth ruling. First of all there's my own position. My own opinion is Vouch, and here's why. Firstly Karek gets the job done, has superior technical knowledge to many of the team (including myself) and is a good source of knowledge on aspects of the game I have only read about.

But, that's like, my personal opinion man, and frankly the last thing I should consider. So looking at the feedback and comments, I note several things. 1) On a basic numerical level he has twice as many Vouches as Againsts. 2) Where the hell were all these comments Last time around? It was an absolute cakewalk! Re-evaluations are for exactly this kind of thing. 3) The common theme between all votes, whether for, against or abstain is that Karek is technically able to do the job, indeed does it very well, the issue is with style & personality. Karek is thermonuclear, he is Judge Dredd. So I look at his misuses of power. There's not a lot to go on there. So I return to the bid. In random Order.

"He's the next Grim!" - He isn't. He's certainly mentally capable of performing the role. He doesn't say "Fuck you!" on admin pages, and he's barely a flicker in crat elections. A grand total of two votes in his favour this year. Why? For exactly the reasons stated above. He's never going to run the place. He's found his natural level of responsibility.

"Uses wrong information as fact". Yeah. I think we've got enough example of that kind of thing. That's something we should stop doing. This is Karek's Achilles heel, and if I was a betting man, is exactly the kind of thing that will eventually get him kicked off this train.

"Always responds/doesn't know when to stop..." this is true. It's tough to walk away, especially when your a combative person. But in this case, it's not a flaw in my opinion. The more he speaks, the more we learn about him. DDR has thrown up a lot of past examples to back up his POV, because he got into long running discussions, arguments, etc with karek. Karek justifies his arguments. The issue is sometimes these justifications are wrong.

Now. (Deep Breath). There are some members of the sysop team who have thrown the decision solely at the crats. On a personal level I hate you. On a decision making level, it reinforces my final point. The sysop team should reflect differing opinions, varied points of view, strong feelings and pointless drama. It's a reflection of the wiki as a whole. Karek is one part of a whole, scrutinized more than any other by a thankless band of long term veterans and former sysops. When he kicks up a fuss, people will always question him, object to him and vote against him. That's what a wiki is for. I want strong opinions on the sysop team. Frankly, I want more of you on the sysop team. Go, apply now. I'd let practically anyone in.

Karek. Read this. Some of the criticsm hers is valid. Be less of an ass, know when it's time to walk away from stuff and carry on being good at sysop-things

Everyone else. Disagree with me? Fine. Run me up for misconduct, find someone else to make these decisions.

I tolerate you all. --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 20:10, 1 October 2012 (BST)

*Showers Ross in mojitos and beach chairs* I suspect adulation and praise might be in short supply, but I'll offer my, "You made the right decision, given how this went", to start things off. Aichon 20:29, 1 October 2012 (BST)
Technically I do not believe promotions/demotions are Misconductable since they do not make use of sysop functions, but yeah, no disagreements here. Good jorb. ᚱᛖᚢᛖᚾᚨᚾ 01:21, 2 October 2012 (BST)
I came close to testing that once with the J3D promotion wherein neither crat wanted him but both were under the impression they had to accept him. It was one of the more ridiculous bids on the wiki. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 03:36, 2 October 2012 (BST)
I see little issue with making solo calls, and if it is, it only reflects on Boxy and his occasional dense inactivity more than anything else. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that you made the right decision and with some good points. So I'd prepare my facepalm laughing cap for anyone who approaches A/M A ZOMBIE ANT 10:03, 2 October 2012 (BST)

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User Position Last Contribution Seat Available
A Helpful Little Gnome (Contribs) Bureaucrat 2020-06-15 2020-12-01
Bob Moncrief (Contribs) Sysop 2020-06-15 N/A
DanceDanceRevolution (Contribs) Bureaucrat 2020-06-02 2020-12-01
Rosslessness (Contribs) Sysop 2020-05-31 N/A
Stelar (Contribs) Sysop 2020-05-30 N/A

Total Sysops: 5 (excluding Kevan and Urbandead)

Last updated at: 22:55, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

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