UDWiki:Administration/Sysop Archives/J3D/2008-11-04 Promotion

Administration » Sysop Archives » J3D » 2008-11-04 Promotion

This page is an archive of J3D's Promotions candidacy. If you wish to speak with this candidate, please use their Talk page. If you believe that the candidate has abused the abilities and privileges granted them by this promotion, please report them for misconduct.

User:J3D

Hey, it's me again. One of the main concerns last time i applied was my vandalism, while i can't go back and have it not happen, i haven't had any vandalism warnings etc since my promotion bid in july and, due to my invovlement in the wiki all existing bannings have been struck. I basically want to be a sysop as it would allow me to better perform various roles around the wiki and i feel i'd provide a different perspective than the existing team. Theres no need to be concerned about me being another inactive sysop, i've been around for 18 months plus and i've got no plans to leave anytime soon. Ummm if you want to know anymore i suggest you read over my old bid, i went into a few lengthly speels there. If you have any questions feel free to ask, etc etc.-xoxo 05:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Vouch - he's a good'n.--Nallan (Talk) 05:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch - The way I see it is, Jed wants to be a sysop. He will work tirelessly and fairly because he wants this job so badly. This is what we need on this wiki. We need sysops who want to do the jobs they are asked to do. Today, we have sysops who decide they are going to become inactive in times of controversy, perhaps a time when they are most needed. They don't rule on A/VB or A/M and they don't have a say in pressing or important deletions cases because giving their opinion may make them look bad, or might lose them "respect". We need more sysops who are willing to do the work that may lose them friends, but is ultimately right for the wiki. Jed is the right man for this job, and always has been.--CyberRead240 05:39, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  I would just like to add, that people need to learn the difference between the rulings on the VB page. Jed has not had a warning against him since July. Regardless of how many times he has been put up on A/VB, he has not been warned since his last promotion bid. That is the fact to look at, because it is the only indicator of vandalism, their report. Also, like someone else said, Vandalism should not really be an issue, being a sysop is not a license to vandalize. Thats why we have A/M.--CyberRead240 04:12, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  No, but it is a license for him to vote not vandalism on his idiot friends vandalism cases -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 10:33 6 November 2008 (BST)

  Oh come on, do you really think i would have ruled that case if i was a sysop?? Talk about involved party! --xoxo 10:40, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

  If he does that, then he gets put on A/M under the watchful eye of wonderful sysops such as yourself boxy. There is no liscence to do anything. He can say Not Vandalism, but he would get put on A/M in a heartbeat by yourself and lurkers like Bob. I don't think he is silly enough to get involved in an administrative sense in a case involving his mates anyway.--CyberRead240 03:55, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Abstain - He seems like a decent fellow, but unfortunately, I just don't know enough about him to make a valid judgment. Linkthewindow ^Talk 08:00, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch Questions: what sysop only tasks do you want to focus on and what parts of the wiki are you most active in at the moment?--Honestmistake 08:08, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  I'm more or less active across the wiki, there's not a whole lot i don't stick my head in and check out every now and then. I used to have nothing to do with suggestions but i'm a regular on Developing Suggestions and a vote whenever i see suggestions nowadays. In regards to sysop powers , protecting and unprotecting will be a big one, many archival tasks need that and it's always annoying when you go to do something and see you can't, a/vb obviously as i've always been involved with a/vb in one way or another as well as akule's new unbanning of permabanned users discussion and of course deletions stuffs. Yeah that pretty much covers it.--xoxo 08:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  Good answers, I don't doubt your skill or commitment but i do worry slightly about your judgement... that said you do show a willingness to discuss and if necissary modify your opinion and that together with your oft stated desire to see Sysops become more accountable to the community make me more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt--Honestmistake 14:19, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Question: I want to know what has changed about your attitude and responsibility to the wiki and its community since your first promotion bid. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:45, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  My attitude and responsibility to the wiki are much the same as they were last time, my views on sysopshipness have changed slightly, which i guess comes from the changing of the guard. If you mean regarding vandalism, then i'm fairly sure my clean sheet since july says everything i need to.--xoxo 11:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Vouch - he cares for this place. This is more than enough for me. I dont like what he did to ALiM, but that doesnt change the fact that i think he would do a good job being a psyop --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{talk mod} 10:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch Because I like it when a sysop pays enough attention to make edits like this. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  Haha glad you 'preciate it. It was really annoying me so i had to get it :P --xoxo 10:45, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Honestly, some of his behaviour in the past has been a bit iffy. But we all have done stuff like it, so its not that big of a deal.I'm willing to put my opinion behind him, but on one condition. Should the community decide that he's no longer fit, he will agree to put him self up for a review of some sort.We don't need another sysops that no one trusts being around, and then we can't get rid of him. So, a compromise. Seems fair enough to me, as we don't have an official channel for review yet.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 11:17, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  fyi i do plan to put up a voting to axe sysops policy in the near future. I do have doubts it'll pass though, we shall see.--xoxo 11:20, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Vouch - From what I've seen from many of his edits, he sounds like a decent person. Plus, I've never had any personal problems with him, so why not? If he wants the SysOp position this badly, then let him have it. If he performs poorly, yank him. But if he performs above and beyond the calls of a normal SysOp, then it's a win for the Wiki community.-- Ωmega360 ^T 13:18, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch. Am I allowed to comment here? I'm just a peon. Whatever. I'm going to comment here. I like this guy. Look at ALiM; if that's not commitment to the wiki, I don't know what is. If you're worried about vandalism, well, that's stupid. This isn't some sort of "license to vandalize" here. --Blackboard 13:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Abstain - You've improved, but things like the truckload of drama on last month's A/VB says to me that you're not quite ready yet. --Midianian ^{Big Brother Diary Room: [513,04]} 13:51, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Against. I have nothing against your contributions to the wiki in general, but I have a real problem with your attitude and the company you keep. Just re-reading the Oct. A/VB page made my mind up. I don't think you are ready yet based on your comment to boxy when he was voting not vandalism on your 1st (of 3) VB cases. Wow i'm impressed! Correct! Gotta be the first time in, what, a month? Since you probably didn't mean it i'll let you change your decision and rule based on your personal opinions of users.--J3D 08:40, 24 October 2008 (BST) And yes, I am basing this on my "personal opinion of users." While I know we can all be dicks from time to time I would think that someone trying to get a sysop position would be more willing to work with the current sysops.--– Nubis ^NWO 14:51, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  Yeah that comment was a pretty bad error in judgment on my part and i recognised that almost immediately after but there was no point removing it as you can't actually delete anything off the wiki, it's always still there. The reason i said that was because the sysops who were on the wiki at the time were blatantly disregarding policy and doing what they wanted. Admittedly they were under pressure from the edit war occurring but the fact that the only active sysop was boxy and that he was making what i felt were the wrong decisions was starting to get to me. In hindsight considering what he walked in on boxy did do a reasonable job cleaning the mess up and sorting everybody out. Anyway yeah, thanks for the feedback.--xoxo 23:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Strong Against - I have no problem with you but, this bid reeks of an attempt to get promoted through two new and relatively inexperienced 'crats because Grim is gone. I'm pretty sure that if I were 'crat instead of Cheeseman you wouldn't have even considered it, same with boxy, Nubis, or any other sysop you could have been sure would actually force consideration of promotions before promoting willy nilly(yes I find it strange having boxy on that list but it's become a really short list). Much like the last bid you share much in common with Cheeseman, that's not good and I don't want another stint of what it was like right after Cheeseman was promoted, too much work for everyone else. You're a part of the community but not the parts where you'll be forced to monitor; More than that, you've spent a lot of time around A/VB for all the wrong reasons.--Karek^maps?! 18:04, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  This clearly shows i had intent to run before the current crats were chosen, and if that's not early enough well i can tell you without evidence that i have been considering rerunning for awhile now. Of course if grim was a crat i wouldn't run again because i'd know that i wouldn't get it. I wasn't aware that was against the rules. If it was you, Nubis, swiers or any of the other handful of sysops i wouldn't have a problem running. Boxy i would have to consider but i feel boxy can look objectively so if he had got another term then i think i would have gone for it anyway and if he declined well then that's that.--xoxo 23:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  Also, while i certainly don't have a problem with you having an opinion, i find it bizarre that you vouched for hagnat here when he freely admitted that he was rerunning for sysop because Grim was gone. That's not even my reason, but if it were i can't see why you'd have problem with this from one user and not another... o.0 --xoxo 00:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Those certainly were very different circumstances as far as the Grim relationship goes. That had more to do with how hagnat got demoted than anything else.--Karek^maps?! 04:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Vouch Willy-nillies for EVERYBODY!!!! Conndraka^{mod TAZM CFT} 19:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch Because I can. --JaredV 21:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch - Though, I have a concern when you said you went into "a few lengthy speels "--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 21:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

  I love speels :D --xoxo 01:31, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Vouch To put it simply, why not? -- Cisisero 22:32, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
• Stongly Against -
  
  It's only a week or two ago that J3D (along with others) was filling up the admin pages with ridiculous edit wars and petty A/VB reports, because they wanted to keep superfluous redirects to their user pages -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 00:34 5 November 2008 (BST)

  The only redirects i actually wanted to keep were DDR and AHLG, i merely felt that the community should be allowed to vote on them on A/D. It's a damn good thing i stuck to my guns too because it seems that DDR and AHLG will pass A/D. Of course new votes may change this, but it was certainly worth getting them put up for voting. If i was sysop i would continue to follow established procedure and allow the community to have a say on pages like that because this wiki exists for the people (lame, i know) and if they want a page and it doesn't cause anyone any harm, it should exist, simple as that.--xoxo 00:37, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  At the moment, all of those redirects have more delete than keep votes on them. They should have all went when on the speedydelete page. And the reason why we shouldn't allow anyone to have a redirect to their user page in the main namespace, is that when everyone wants them, there will be even more drama, every other week. How many Nicks and Bobs and Sarahs out there who would all want the same redirect to their own userpage? To say nothing about ridiculous redirects like this also being created for users. You simply have no interest in keeping the wiki tidy, which is what sysops are supposed to do. In fact you seem to delight in messing with it as much as you can get away with, which is fine for regular users, but I not what I expect from a prospective sysop -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 01:09 5 November 2008 (BST)

  Ah it seems you're right, i must have miscounted. Anyway DDR and AHLG are a tad different to Nick, hell i voted delete on J3D. Anyway we disagree on this, i don't feel that having AHLG exist makes the wiki more messy, i think it makes it more usable. You disagree. As countless edits show i actually have a lot of interest in keeping the wiki tidy, this for example, i've made countless similar edits in my time here, that's just the one freshest in my head.--xoxo 01:17, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Question If you want to "follow established proceedure" why do you have A/VB cases against you? That seems the be the simplest procedure to follow yet you have a problem with it. Why should anyone believe that you can follow the more complicated and "grey" procedures?--– Nubis ^NWO 00:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Like i said, i haven't gotten a warning since july, I've already addressed that. Cases that get declared not vandalism are meaningless. I could make cases against anyone for anything and that person would have a case against them forever, it'd just get declared not vandalism. Of the cases that were brought against me one was me emboldening boxy's ruling (definitely not vandalism), one was undeleting a page that should never have been deleted, the fact that it is infact likely to pass A/D is testament to this and the third case centred around me making a mistake while reverting vandalism. Sorry for that but like i said at the time, my priority was reverting the vandal edits, yes i accidentally reverted more, but that was quickly fixed. Also for me A/D is not a grey area. In fact it's one of the most clear cut areas regarding policy on the wiki.--xoxo 00:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  You recreated that page despite being told that it wasn't going to be undeleted, you are extremely lucky not to have a warning for that, given the fact that you willfully recreated it. The polite warning you got was designed for newbies who recreate userpages in the main namespace, or things like that. You knew what you were doing, and saw a loophole to do it without being officially warned. Again, not sysop material -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 01:14 5 November 2008 (BST)

  The page was deleted while it was on the deletions page as it had received a keep vote on speedy deletes. I was the only person on at the time with the slightest interest in following policy designed to better the wiki, if that makes me not sysop material then so be it.--xoxo 01:20, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Strong Abstain - Sorry man, said I'd vote for you, but the drama in October's edit wars kind of swayed me a bit. Don't worry though, you have this in the bag, just like Obama...--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 03:56, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Okay I'm not having a go at you for the sake of it... But... Strong Abstain. I love it! It's not just fence sitting, its DECISIVE fence sitting. mwahahaha. I can't wait to give someone a strong abstain sometime. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 04:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Heh, you didn't say you would, you just implied it, sneaky, sneaky. *taps nose* --xoxo 06:39, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

• Against - I don't see any reason for him to become a Sysop. I'd imagine that he'd bring more problems to the table than solutions. - Jedaz - 04:18/5/11/2008
• Against - I'm not sure about you becoming a sysop. The A/VB, A/SD, and A/D issues you were involved with last month are still very fresh in my mind, but if you keep up your recently reformed behavior, I would be glad to vouch for you in another promotion bid. --ZsL 06:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Heh, nah, don't plan on running again. --xoxo 06:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  I read your Vote ZS, but all I could hear was "Baa-aa-aa"--CyberRead240 06:55, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Oh and in relation to your concern regarding the drama from last month i feel i've more than addressed my justification for everything i did there, see my response to boxy's vote and the question nubis asked under that for details. and can ppl please keep unrelated/semi-related chatter off this page? thanks.--xoxo 06:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  I understand your explanation, but I would also like more time to pass and see that you keep up your good behavior. So far, it looks like you will win this promotion, so another bid looks unlikely. :) --ZsL 07:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Promotion isn't based on popular vote. It is up to the Crats to weigh the opinions of the users with their own feelings. As far as keeping unrelated chatter off this page? Good luck with that. It doesn't happen on the other Admin pages.--– Nubis ^NWO 13:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Oh, I know about the promotion process. I just have a feeling that it will succeed, anyway. --ZsL 22:57, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

• Vouch - He's been my wiki guru for the past 11 months. --Fiffy 08:27, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
• Against - A month ago, I prolly woulda given a vouch; you really seemed like you'd become a lot more level-headed. But some of the stuff that's crawled onto your user contribs in the past couple of weeks...? I've read your explanations above, but that kind of behavior still gives me pause. Zarrah. -- Atticus Rex ^{mfu pif} Δ 08:35, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
• Against - Never heard of this guy, never saw anything. --ScouterTX 12:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  Ahhh... the sweet taste of irony --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{talk mod} 13:35, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Fucking gold.--Nallan (Talk) 22:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

  I don't want to become anything here, so what? --ScouterTX 12:13, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

  Considering J3D is one of the more prominent editors on the wiki, while you... nobody knows who you are. But I guess if J3D spent more time editing SNAKEHOUND, you would know who he is.--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 17:27, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

  *sniffs*
  Yup, thought I smelt elitist trash. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 23:26, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

  Hey Bob, maybe you can eliten me on exactly how long you sit shiva with a burn as sucky as that one? But I guess Elitist Trash is a step up from Sycophant. I should update my "What Bob Thinks" template.--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 01:09, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

• Against as above. mostly when i reread your bid it really made my head hurt. maybe next time, oh and only if you keep MichaelRead from "defending" your actions. keep up the good work tho.----Sexualharrison 18:20, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch I came back on here to vote for you. Show these dicks what a sysop should do. Ioncannon11 01:33, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch From what i've seen of you, i like it. Good luck J3D. - Tayth | Talk 18:08, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
• Strongly Against - Holy balls, NO. My reasoning for this should be obvious. His extremely questionable concept of self-control notwithstanding, the dialogue on this page alone is a perfect example of why this bid should be refused: the Nerd Patrol bearing down on those who would criticise him so he doesn't have to and his laughably transparent sudden changes of heart (the exchange with Nubis particularly so) should be ringing alarm bells in any bureaucrat's mind. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 05:50, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch - It took me surprisingly long to think of my decision for J3D, I felt iffy about his issues with past clashes with sysops, but I know that was only because he felt obliged to show he was a decisive thinker. As hagnat, I don't like ALiM but thats irrelevant. The reason I am vouching is because I know for a fact that J3D's intentions are purely for the good of the wiki, and he has always had an active interest and involvement in the Admin sections and I think giving him that greater responsibility could only see him flourish more. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 01:19, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

  Define a "surprisingly long" time. For someone like you, I'm thinking... three, maybe four seconds? Nice attempt at pretending to be a shining beacon of impartiality and reason, but it's fairly transparent. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 01:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

  I can say with all honesty, DDR was close to not vouching for a long time. I spoke to him about it many times in person and on IRC. DDR doesn't really know Jed outside of Wiki/IRC. I think they have met once while they were both very drunk about 6 months ago. You could question the motives of myself and Nallan, if you wished, and we would both happily rebut, but DDR is someone who was very serious as to not just vouch because he felt he "should".--CyberRead240 03:52, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

  I'm bigger than him though and i know where he lives so yeah, would have bashed him if he didn't. Also love that coming from you bob, i mean i'm sure you thought long and hard about my promotion and really considered both the pros and cons before making your descision. Does the term negroid jug mean anything to you?--xoxo 04:02, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

  You guys are hilarious. FUCKBUDDIES FO' LIFE --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 06:45, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

  Man that totally validates the integrity of your vote and opinion. Nice comment bro.--CyberRead240 09:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

  I do appreciate the sublety of your attempts to improve the chances of your fellow fuckbuddy's chances of being promoted through trying to undermine the image of people voting, but in my particular case it won't have much effect either way. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 12:39, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

  lolk--CyberRead240 12:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

  If I was going to vote vouch immediately, I would have by all means done it straight after I heard the bid was open. I was going to vote against but I waited a while and decided J3D was in it for the right reasons, as far as I could see. Congratulations, all this huff'n'puff you are making over something so irrelevant has just succeeded in nullifying your vote, Cyberbob. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 06:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Against - I don't really think he would be a huge assest to the sysop team and I am a little disturbed by the A/VB thing that went down last month.--SirArgo ^Talk 18:31, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Against --WanYao 12:25, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
• Vouch - Exactly the same reasons as last time when he was unfairly denied promotion. Compare J3D's proactive wiki use as a normal user to the number of sysop contributions by hagnat since his powers were restored, that's your answer as to whether he's suited or not. As for the drama, good, do we really want sysops who are going to back down and roll over because of a bit of drama? J3D was involved in drama and not found guilty of vandalism, he was in the right, that's what we need in a sysop team. Also, penance vouch. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 05:22, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

  Just a quick FYI, the real issue at the time was the deletion requests for the various user redirects. The VB cases were highly tangential, and mainly just attempts at cheap pointscoring by both sides of the argument. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 05:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

  Spamming up admin pages unnecessarily is an escalatable offence, J3D was not warned for his edits. QED. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 05:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

  Your understanding of the world is too limited to be able to comprehend what the actually meaningful outcome of that spat was. Nevermind, I shouldn't have bothered. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 06:28, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

  I thought you hated people who 'ran' away from arguments they were losing Bob. At leased you accepted Iscariot's obvious intellect over yours ^.^ D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 06:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

  That's a bit of a fallacy. Let's all compare new promotions to the bare minimum, maybe they can administrate in obscurity too! Best if you used Nubis, Zombie Slayer, Vantar, Vista, Boxy, or myself as a standard of edits, at least we've all actively contributed in regulatory tasks throughout the wiki, the small stuff that needs to get done in the background along with the scheduled stuff that should be the bulk of any administrator's edits.--Karek^maps?! 00:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

---

Decision

• Discussion is now closed. Myself and my Gnomey friend will attempt to discuss the outcome and we shall hopefully have reached a decision within the next couple of days. To save my brain later: 17 Vouches, 11 Against (3 strongly), 3 Abstentions (1 strong =/). Much ta. -- Cheese 19:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, after me and Cheese discussed things on IRC we've decided yes. We were rather split on it, but managed to come to a conclusion (this would have been much simpler and easier with a third 'crat by the way). Something to add... I wasn't exactly 100% comfortable with you and A/VB so it would be preferred if you kept it slow there. Questions anyone?--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 22:22, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

You don't need a third 'crat. You both have veto power, so if either of you are against the promotion, it's not meant to happen. It's not a vote -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 23:39 18 November 2008 (BST)

The fact that you don't even know that^ means you should not only overrule your decision with a legitimate one but should probably not have stayed in the running for 'crat in the first place. If you don't know what 'crats do you shouldn't be a 'crat.--Karek^maps?! 00:06, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Retards. He didn't say one voted yes and one voted no. He said they were split on the decision, but they obviously talked about it and decided that Yes was the best option. They are saying that if there was a third 'Crat it would be easier and they just could have voted without having to go through an arduous discussion process. Your both butthurt that you aren't doing their jobs. They don't need a 3rd crat though, it SHOULD be a long discussion process as thats the only way to make the right decision.--CyberRead240 03:37, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It just seems that common sense would say the "3rd Crat" would be the opinions of the sysops. You don't need an actual 3rd person. --– Nubis ^NWO 09:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Fuck no, the problem is that they aren't doing their jobs. Kinda like when I would criticize Vantar, Vista, Boxy, and every other 'crat or sysop that I think didn't do their job since I was promoted. --Karek^maps?! 06:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

HAHAHAHA What a bunch of fuck ups! You have all your good sysops posting STRONGLY AGAINST this promotion and yet you decide to give it to him anyway? What a fucking joke. I love that they even posted examples and shit and the vouches are bullshit - He's a good'un from his partners in crime and yet he still fucking gets it. God, I hope Nubis gets Crat someday so Katthew and I can be sysops. -- #99 ^DCC 23:36, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I felt I'd said everything that needed to be said last time he went for the promotion. And no doubt everyone else covered the rest.--Nallan (Talk) 00:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Not really. I'll be sure to help reign him in should the broom or mop become too big for him to handle. :) -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 22:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

You've both just proven yourselves fucking morons that don't deserve to be sysops much less 'crats. Congratulations, you've just qualified as the worst 'crats we've ever had, and Grim staged a coup.--Karek^maps?! 23:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I can tell you guys are all gonna get along just great!--Nallan (Talk) 00:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I know, because the way he was promoted makes me want to approach him with a 10' pole like I do with Conn, a user who has over time shown me that he can't be trusted to act beyond his own best interest. Funny thing is I would have supported J3D given a bit more time and involvement, and considering there are many many users I wouldn't say the same thing about. . . --Karek^maps?! 00:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

God damn... You're really dwelling on this aren't you? Maybe instead of wingeing, you could try and give Jed a chance or even show him some guidance on being a sysop if you think he is so unready. I mean you're not going to talk him into standing down, and you can't change the crats' decisions. I just hate to see you wasting your time on pointless endeavours.--Nallan (Talk) 00:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

See it how you will, it was a bad decision made by a person with a history of it and a 'crat that's just shown he has no idea what he's doing through his own admission. Say what you will but I'll waste my time how I see fit, and instructing a user on how to be a sysop when he's shown no interst in finding it out before he was a sysop is not what I consider a useful or constructive use of my time, quite the opposite in fact.--Karek^maps?! 00:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

All AHLG said is that it would've been easier and simpler to come to a conclusion with a 3rd crat. I don't see how that makes him an unfit crat. He didn't say they needed a 3rd crat. I don't see any misunderstanding of guidelines there...--Nallan (Talk) 01:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Karek and (to a much lesser extent) Boxy's bitterness isn't needed here, the crats were just trying to be positive, its not their fault they do things differently than you guys. Yes, I know whay Boxy said is right about the veto power. But keep in mind they got into crat with credentials that you guys and Grim don't have, community support. So keep the aggression down low guys :( Sheesh. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I can only laugh. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 03:30, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd just like to say, well done to ALHG and Cheese for making their own decision. Their crat powers, as voted by the community, should not be compromised by the beliefs of users such as Karek and Boxy. I am glad that you did what you thought was right, and did not let yourselves be bullied into a decision you did not want to make.

To boxy and Karek, I seem to remember a few of you bagging Jed out for having a "tantrum" when he didn't get promoted on his first bid. Looks like you all just made a fool of yourselves. How 'bout giving him a chance guys? Maybe your lack of accommodation for people who disagree with you is the reason why you two were not the ones making this decision? --CyberRead240 03:33, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Holy shit, even when you get your way you arseclowns whine. Where's my tantrum here, Read? Where did I bag you clowns for your tanty when you didn't get your way last time, Read? Stop making shit up to slander anyone that doesn't support J3D ( <3 <3 <3 ). Is this the way it's going to be now? Anyone disagrees with a J3D decision will get the treatment by his bum buddy brigade? -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 04:39 19 November 2008 (BST)

Your just fucking butthurt. And its mainly at Karek for his outburst, but I just take you two as one person lately.--CyberRead240 05:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

No substance, just bullshit -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 05:23 19 November 2008 (BST)

Oh, and just in case no one noticed, AHGL seems to have demoted himself, presumably as a result of this -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 04:53 19 November 2008 (BST)

Well I spose you guys won out... Well Box its hard not to complain in response to Karek. But for now lets go focus on yet another Bur election. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Lost x2, more like -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 05:23 19 November 2008 (BST)

where? screenshot or it didnt happen--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 05:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

hur lol D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:21, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

thats not a screenshot!--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 05:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I went one better and you STILL complain! =O D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:28, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Screenshot this, then -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 05:45 19 November 2008 (BST)

So if AHLG stepped down now what? Karek by default or a new election? --– Nubis ^NWO 06:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

We should probably give Gnome time to reconsider, but otherwise, it's yet another election -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 06:13 19 November 2008 (BST)

Oh noes, please, I'd love to get some of this community support I keep hearing about :P

That's that thing where people liking me makes my opinions and decisions automatically right right? Treat is as if it were a forceful demotion as far as replacement goes, that means a new vote due to the precedent.--Karek^maps?! 06:29, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

How about we treat it like it is... a valued and valuable member of the community hounded out by a loud arrogant ass! J3D got the balance of community support and even you can't deny that he does a lot of useful stuff on here. This decision is entirely within the pattern of behaviour shown by Gnome and Cheese before their promotion, ie: willing to be open to the opinions of others and willing to give everyone here a fair chance and it was that behaviour that got them elected to Crat in the first place. You are not likely to win the election not because you are unpopular (you are) but because you are convinced that you and you alone are right and the font of all wisdom (you are not). Actually you will probably find that it is that misguided opinion of your own 'righteousness' which hides the amount of solid decisions and good work you do. In short... J3D was promoted, deal with it with dignity instead of chucking your dummy! --Honestmistake 08:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

So basically your position is that because J3D was promoted by two sysops who seems to be willing to promote anyone he is now magically free from all of the very legitimate concerns raised in the bid that have not been addressed in any way by anyone much less the 'crats who promoted him and decided that in such a controversial bid it wasn't prudent to address why they didn't think any of these frequently voiced concerns meant anything? The fact is you wanted him promoted so you're viewing all of this as irrelevant. Gnome and Cheese fucked up royally in how they have gone about this and deserve to take flak for it lest it happen again and again and again, something which would be as likely now as it was when Vantar and Boxy were 'crats and we went through this same exact drama because of how they dealt with promotions and from which they learned.--Karek^maps?! 08:33, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

No, basically my opinion is that J3D recieved the majority of support. Some of that support was obviously biased and probably did more harm to his case than good. On the other hand he did recieve support from 2 sysops with one of the 4 who voted against saying very clearly that he was only against the promotion bid at this time and congratulating him on his good work! My vote for him came only after careful consideration of his reply to my question and with the knowledge that more level heads on the sysop team would soon overturn any blatant stoopidity from "sysop J3D". I am sure that Gnome and Cheese looked at the opinions presented and made their own mind up... thats their job and like it or not they both got the job because we voted for them... (Actually i didn't and wouldn't have voted for Cheese because I don't always trust his judgement) In this case they weighed up the simple facts that a majority of those voicing an opinion said YES including 2 Sysops out of the 6 that bothered and I am sure that the very valid concerns raised were the reasons why AHLG felt the need to note his own worries in regards to A/VB.... Your basic opinion on the other hand is that you think they should only have listened to those who agree with you and are therefore wrong to come to any conclusion but the one you wanted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Honestmistake (talk • contribs) 11:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC).

and even you can't deny that he does a lot of useful stuff on here. - J3D's contributions are to ALiM and fucking around on Admin pages. So basically "taking his toys and going home" when someone like Cyberbob called him out on that awful template on community pages. To going around procedure and recreating a deleted page when he wasn't happy with the official answer he got about it's undeletion. So don't paint him as some martyr and folk hero. --– Nubis ^NWO 09:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Not painting him as a hero or a martyr and my vouch was mainly motivated by the knowledge that responsibility should do him some good, that he is obviously keen and skilled enough for the job and that any fuck ups he makes will be easily fixed by the more seasoned Sysops who have the power to oust him at the first drop of a misconduct case should he be so stupid as to throw a wobbler!--Honestmistake 11:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Bettar watch out Karek, I hear J3D's a favourite for the next bur election. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I herd Kareks butt is hurt. To quote boxy, "Whaaaaaaaaa"--CyberRead240 09:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

What you all are missing is that the Crats don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or be mean and have decided to either run away (AHLG) or just hide out until this mess blows over (Cheese). It pisses me off (and I would assume some other Sysops) that these two wanted the position yet at the first sign of any trouble run away. If you know you can't handle this you shouldn't stay in the election. There are many users that are turned down for sysop positions because they can't handle the A/VB drama. These two clearly can't handle the Promotions drama.

If you believe that AHLG was "hounded out" then you are basically confirming that he wasn't ready for the position as he can't handle any criticism of his decisions. Karek and boxy aren't wrong in being pissed about this since Cheese and AHLG have handled this very poorly by flaking out and ignoring the opinions and feelings of established sysops. --– Nubis ^NWO 09:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Those "established sysops" had an obvious bias. Perhaps the elected 'crats could see that.--CyberRead240 10:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

That is truly one of the stupidest things I have read given the circumstances. It's lovely how you can ignore all of the issues raised and actions he has taken and chalk it up to "bias". And I am one of those "established sysops" are you calling me biased? --– Nubis ^NWO 13:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Being negative towards someone doesn't necessarily imply bias, especially if the facts are against them. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 10:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Thats why the general consensus is that you are a trolling douchebag. "Id like to tell the cunt what I think of him" AAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA--CyberRead240 10:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 10:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh what a kindergarten comeback. And no. You have no feelings coz u r teh 1337 trollzorz rite?--CyberRead240 10:28, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Is that supposed to be a burn? --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 10:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Epic comeback. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I think they aren't talking because in the very first line, the crats said "Discussion is now closed" Maybe we should all get grim soft warnings now--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 18:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Jesus Christ. We make one decision and this happens? Unlike what usually happens, both me and Gnome were brand new 'crats so it's not like we realised there was a whole "veto" thing. So rather than coming to a complete stalemate we discussed it and reached a conclusion (like we did with Hagnat's promotion, which I notice didn't generate a ton of shit afterwards). Personally I think that's the best way to go about things. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but when you start criticising the opinions of others and say they shouldn't count, just because they differ from your own or because they apparently as "experienced" as you, you've crossed the line. I can now see why some folk believe the sysops to be an exclusive clique. It's shit like this that makes it happen.
Lets have a read of that bit of text at the top shall we?:

Once the candidate satisfies these guidelines, the user is then subject to a community discussion. All users are asked to comment on the candidate in question, ask questions of the candidate, and discuss the candidate's suitability for becoming a System Operator. This is not a vote. It is instead merely a request for comments from the wiki community. This will continue for two weeks, as all users get a chance to air their opinions on the candidate.

Once the two weeks are up, the Bureaucrats will review the community discussion and make a decision based upon it. The user will be notified of the status of their request, and will be promoted should it appear that the community is willing to accept them as a System Operator.

You see that word "community"? It means the whole of the community. Not just sysops. To sit there and say that your opinion is most important is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. We listened to the community and read every comment. Not just those of people who've been here a long time. If you can't accept that we made a decision you don't agree with, then fine, be a child. Throw your toys out the buggy and tell everyone who'll listen that we're the worst 'crats ever. Or you could stop being bitter and get over yourself.
As far as I'm concerned, we did our job. I stand by the decision. No matter how stupid some people may think it is. I think J3D will make a good sysop so give him a fucking chance.
An on a separate note, the reason I've been quiet is because I work all day on Wednesday. With no access to a computer until I get home about 5-6 o'clock. Don't accuse me of running away or going silent. Get your facts right before mouthing off. -- Cheese 18:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I absolutely agree; a portion of the reaction to this has been childish at best.--Nallan (Talk) 22:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Sore winners are worse than sore losers. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 23:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sore. I'm happy. Very happy indeed!--Nallan (Talk) 23:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

You know what I mean; don't be facetious. --HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS 00:09, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Ha, no we don't buddy. You're losing your touch CF. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

How could you say that you didn't know about the "veto" thing? Didn't you notice that not everyone that put in for sysop got it? What exactly did you think a Crat did? Why did you think that any promotion made where a very distinct group of users had a negative opinion would go smoothly? You are lucky it is the sysops that is against him and not the goons. Think about it. You two made a decision that was clearly opposed by a specific group and you didn't even bother to address their concerns. It's like a big FUCK YOU to them. And this: Everyone is entitled to their opinions but when you start criticising the opinions of others and say they shouldn't count, just because they differ from your own or because they apparently as "experienced" as you, you've crossed the line. is one of the most retarded things you have ever said. You are saying you are entitled to your opinion unless it is criticizing someone then it crosses a line! Don't feel like you can't step down just because you are the only Crat right now, by the way. It's ok if you do.--– Nubis ^NWO 01:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Did you read what he said? "I think Jed would make a good Sysop". Thats the only justification he needs to give you, he is an elected 'crat. You are a sysop. He was elected to do this job. He is complaining about fucking Karek, saying that regular users opinions don't count for as much as his own does. That was crossing the line, regardless of whos arse your tongue is wriggling up at the moment, Nubis.--CyberRead240 02:07, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I like how when J3D or you guys demand more of an explanation for something it's your DIVINE RIGHT but when someone else does they should just be happy. We have every right to question his decision especially when he is making it clear that he didn't know all of his options (veto).

And I'm not one of your faggot buddies that wants to bitch back and forth so don't feel like you need to try and throw in an insult to "entice" me to return. --– Nubis ^NWO 03:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

So 'faggot' is not an insult to entice me to return? Your a broken record of Failures Greatest Hits, Nubis.--CyberRead240 03:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Because it counts for something when everyone ignores the reasons people are against him in favor of "I likes I likes!", the person here who has thrown out other peoples opinions would be him, that's why we ended up here. Everything else Cheese said there just cements my opinion that he should not be a 'crat that much more, starting from the first line where he says quite clearly he didn't know how to do his damn job. His(Cheese's) whole comment is "Don't blame me because you didn't get your way" and shows quite clearly he has no fucking clue how to follow along and doesn't understand what the problem is, maybe if he understood that it was his job to review the comments/vouches/votes other users made and to not only understand why they made them but to correctly gauge their intimacy with the user so that the first can actually count for something we wouldn't be here, however non-justified support is not a decent reason to ignore well justified opposition, much less so when a decent amount of the support came from users who vouched because they always do against people they don't dislike(i.e. they are background noise) or because they were his buddies. Basically this is a case of incompetent boobery from the promotion right on down to your(Cheese) attempt to call me out for exactly the wrong thing, You don't know what your doing and you don't even have the first clue why someone would have a problem with that.--Karek^maps?! 17:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)