UDWiki talk:Administration/Arbitration/Jon Pyre vs Grim s
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==Jon Pyre V. Grim S==
I offer to arbitrate. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 02:13, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- lol --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 02:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- No, i dont think im quite insane enough for that. No. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 02:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- What about 73? He's proven himself a fair arbitrator. And I really would be unbiased- our relationship on the wiki has gotten a lot better since I stopped being a drama beacon. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 02:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- Nali, the harder you try to act mature the more you fail. Face it; the only way now for you to avoid drama is simply to not say anything at all. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 02:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- All I've done since my return to the wiki is try to break up spats and fights, in terms of nosing into admin pages. How is that "acting" mature, and how is that failing? And if you have any other advice on how to improve in my posting or in actually being mature on the wiki, I'm all ears; I want nothing but to improve. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 02:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- You've kickstarted so many of them yourself that it's a farcical of you to turn around and try to take the high horse. You don't have the people skills - or the history - to try and suddenly play peacemaker. Every time you try ends in you coming off as either arrogant or completely childish. I call it the Tryhard Syndrome, and as yet there is no known cure. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 02:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- I have ended a few debates, and pre-empted a bit of drama- Remember the recent thing with Sockem and The General? I did my best to intervene in that situation, and I got the general to agree not to rule, which surely prevented a large amount of drama with a misconduct case, and I talked to Sockem, who I believe calmed down at least a little after I talked to him. I just tend to work on the user talk pages, more behind the scenes. Remember the austin thing? I (along with 73 and AHLG, if I recall correctly.) got S.A. to back off during one of their spats. I do decently as a negotiator; I just do better on the talk pages than on the admin pages. (And wherever I come off as arrogant, please tell me- I hate arrogance, and I'd hate even more to be a hypocrite- especially as I hate hypocrites.) Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 02:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- You've kickstarted so many of them yourself that it's a farcical of you to turn around and try to take the high horse. You don't have the people skills - or the history - to try and suddenly play peacemaker. Every time you try ends in you coming off as either arrogant or completely childish. I call it the Tryhard Syndrome, and as yet there is no known cure. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 02:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- All I've done since my return to the wiki is try to break up spats and fights, in terms of nosing into admin pages. How is that "acting" mature, and how is that failing? And if you have any other advice on how to improve in my posting or in actually being mature on the wiki, I'm all ears; I want nothing but to improve. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 02:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- Nali, the harder you try to act mature the more you fail. Face it; the only way now for you to avoid drama is simply to not say anything at all. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 02:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- What about 73? He's proven himself a fair arbitrator. And I really would be unbiased- our relationship on the wiki has gotten a lot better since I stopped being a drama beacon. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 02:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I nominate Grim s to arbitrate this case. He's obviously the only one that knows what's what -- boxy talk • i 11:30 5 January 2008 (BST)
- It does have that sweet scent of ridiculous audacity. I reluctantly accept the nomination by bureaucrat boxy to arbitrate the case of myself versus Jon Pyre. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 11:56, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I nominate 73, as he's almost the only arbiter Grim hasn't rejected. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 15:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- I reject seventythree. There. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 15:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I offer myself to arbitrate. While my views are known, and if they aren't, here they are; I would strive to be fair to both parties regardless. --Ryiis 19:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry, but no. In case no one has noticed, im not interested in letting this case proceed given how badly i was fucked over with the last arb case i had. Given i cant decline arbitration, all i can do is shoot down all the arbitrators who offer themselves until everyone gets sick and tired of the case and it goes away. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 23:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- Thats a pretty big loophole. shouldnt something be done about that? not that it would affect this particular case.--'BPTmz 23:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- Grim... that's abuse of the system, and you know it. You put me and 73 up for VB for abusing the system when we put the deletions page up for deletions. If you don't choose an arbitrator, I'm not going to hesitate to do the same thing. Because right now, you're being an outright hypocrite by abusing the system and having criticized god knows how many others for doing so. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:07, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Either that, or someone can choose a representative for the Grimch, and that representative can choose an arbitrator, since Grim has stated he's abusing the system and has effectively refused to participate in the arbitration process. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- grims not breaking any rules, here. although i do agree this is kind of childish, we cant punish grim for not picking an arbitor. best thing someone could do, would be to change the rules about this. but as i said before, it wouldnt affect this case, as it started without said rule.--'BPTmz 00:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- After the Conndraka case? No, Grim's not being childish he's doing the most reasonable thing he can to keep another Wikigate from happening, to him this time. He's preventing abuse of the system.--Karekmaps?! 00:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- so hiding from something's not childish?--'BPTmz 00:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- He's preventing abuse of the system by people he KNOWS will be fair, as he's seen their decisions in the past, by abusing the system when all he has is chickenshit paranoia? Yep, that's definitely reasonable. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Thats the thing, i dont know they would be fair. Not only am i extremely unpopular, but there are a number of popular people who have made no secret through theior actions that they would like to see my blood. As a result, its going to be extremely hard to getb a fair arbitration. Given the scale of what can happen to me if this does go against me (I can, theoretically, be indefinately banned from vast chunks of the wiki), im not willing to take that chance. Risk and reward. If i win, i get nothing. If i lose, i lose potentially everything. And there is a valid reason to assume i wont be given a fair go. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- What about Karek? He's been with you all through this, and likes you in general. What about Boxy, who's been shown to be fair and has even been trusted with Bureaucrat powers? And even I- anything else, grim, I am fair when I act in a capacity that requires me to set my personal prejudice aside. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Crat powers are given to popular folks. And boxy recently banned me for a day without allowing due process to run its course. No, i dont think i want boxy, and you... well... you can go fuck yourself. Im never, ever, going to accept you as an arbitrator. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- What about Karek? Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Dont trust him to be fair to Jon Pyre. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Meh, I can understand that.--Karekmaps?! 00:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Would you accept him if Jon Pyre accepted him? Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- What do you care? You arent an involved party. In case you hadnt noticed, you arent that welcome here. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:43, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- #1, nice dodge, #2, I'm trying to act as a mediator as best as I can; trying to find a way to end this case and end your attempts to block the system from working. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, and its patently obvious i dont want a mediator. However, if you liked that dodge, you will love this one: I Shall now dissapear from arbies and get back to my work in the glossary. I will return here, should i remember to do so. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- #1, nice dodge, #2, I'm trying to act as a mediator as best as I can; trying to find a way to end this case and end your attempts to block the system from working. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- What do you care? You arent an involved party. In case you hadnt noticed, you arent that welcome here. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:43, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Would you accept him if Jon Pyre accepted him? Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Meh, I can understand that.--Karekmaps?! 00:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Dont trust him to be fair to Jon Pyre. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- What about Karek? Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Crat powers are given to popular folks. And boxy recently banned me for a day without allowing due process to run its course. No, i dont think i want boxy, and you... well... you can go fuck yourself. Im never, ever, going to accept you as an arbitrator. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- What about Karek? He's been with you all through this, and likes you in general. What about Boxy, who's been shown to be fair and has even been trusted with Bureaucrat powers? And even I- anything else, grim, I am fair when I act in a capacity that requires me to set my personal prejudice aside. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Thats the thing, i dont know they would be fair. Not only am i extremely unpopular, but there are a number of popular people who have made no secret through theior actions that they would like to see my blood. As a result, its going to be extremely hard to getb a fair arbitration. Given the scale of what can happen to me if this does go against me (I can, theoretically, be indefinately banned from vast chunks of the wiki), im not willing to take that chance. Risk and reward. If i win, i get nothing. If i lose, i lose potentially everything. And there is a valid reason to assume i wont be given a fair go. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Wait, let's just change a few words here, and see what the difference is. "grims not breaking any rules, here. although i do agree this is kind of childish, we cant punish grim for not picking an arbitor. best thing someone could do, would be to change the rules about this."
- Edited: "73's not breaking any rules, here. although i do agree this is kind of childish, we cant punish 73 for putting the deletions page up for deletion. best thing someone could do, would be to change the rules about this." Hm? Sound familiar? Same damn argument me and 73 and numerous others made, and it was rejected. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- lol --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 00:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Chalk and cheese mate. This isnt an administrative matter, as it doesnt feature those men in funny hats, the sysops. The namespace is deceptive. Unlike the other case, which was blatant disruption of actual administration services. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:21, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- lol --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 00:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- After the Conndraka case? No, Grim's not being childish he's doing the most reasonable thing he can to keep another Wikigate from happening, to him this time. He's preventing abuse of the system.--Karekmaps?! 00:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- grims not breaking any rules, here. although i do agree this is kind of childish, we cant punish grim for not picking an arbitor. best thing someone could do, would be to change the rules about this. but as i said before, it wouldnt affect this case, as it started without said rule.--'BPTmz 00:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Either that, or someone can choose a representative for the Grimch, and that representative can choose an arbitrator, since Grim has stated he's abusing the system and has effectively refused to participate in the arbitration process. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
What about Akule? he's best friends with both Grim and JonPyre--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS 
LOE ZHU | Яezzens 23:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- Id sooner set off fireworks inside my underpants. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 23:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- ahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 00:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I nominate:
* Akule * AnimeSucks * Atticus Rex * Axe Hack * Blood Panther * boxy * Certified=Insane * Cheeseman * Conndraka * Cyberbob240 * Darth Sensitive
* DevilAsh * Dux Ducis * hagnat * Headless Gunner * Jedaz * Karek * Labine50 * Matthewfarenheit * Max Grivas * Midianian * Novascotia
* Ryiis * Sonny Corleone * Seventythree * Suicidal Angel * The General * The Grimch * Toejam * Thekooks * V2Blast * Zombie slay3r
Purely to get them all out of the way, so we can get on to less conventional arbitrators, finding one that Grim won't reject. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- hurr --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 00:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- I humbly accept the seconding of my nomination by Nalikill. I will do the utmost to uphold the traditions of the page in my duty. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Jon Pyre, do you accept Grim S as an arbitrator? (For the love of fuck, please do, so we can get this over with and archived.) Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Jesus Christ, Nali, do you really think Jon's going to accept his fucking opponent as arbitrator? --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 00:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- #1, He might, just for the sake of getting this case over with. #2, if he don't, I've proposed the alternative on his talk page, and I'm working on a 3rd option by trying to get Grim to agree to Karek if Jon does, then, if Jon agrees to Karek, we could have a semblance of fairness.... if only a semblance, but the case would be done with nonetheless. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You are not wanted in this case. You have been refused as arbitrator, so kindly GTFO and let them sort it out. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 00:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Mmm... Nice bold italics. Goes well with the lack of authority. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Mmm... Nice dodging of the point. Goes well with the lack of popularity. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- And a heaping helping of irrelevance, I like that. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You were the first to offer the red herring, so don't take that high horse with me. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- They were not red herrings.... they were blue, sheesh, get it right! Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Massive failure detected. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Y'mean I had a sense of humor. It's not a crime. Perspective is what separates us from beasts... AND IF YOU DON"T ACCEPT THAT, I"LL KILL YOU!!!!!!!!! /sarcasm Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Massive failure detected. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Massive failure of Massive failure detected. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You're a fucking idiot. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- God bless you too, good sir. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Can you both take five, then come back and post? Tap your helmets guys.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 01:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Hell no; why would I? I'm achieving exactly what I set out to do. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Which is? Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Orange juice. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Probablt to drive you off. Although I wish you both would just stop.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 01:21, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You jucist! Why not blue juice, or red juice... Embrace all of the world's juices, man! Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:22, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You're a fucking idiot. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- God bless you too, good sir. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Hell no; why would I? I'm achieving exactly what I set out to do. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Which is? Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Orange juice. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Why? (You do realize, if I'm the stupidest person ever, then you're arguing with the stupidest person ever... which would make you what, stupider than the stupidest person ever? Or at least equally as stupid.) Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:30, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Orange juice. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Which is? Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Hell no; why would I? I'm achieving exactly what I set out to do. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- God bless you too, good sir. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You're a fucking idiot. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Orange juice. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Which is? Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Hell no; why would I? I'm achieving exactly what I set out to do. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Can you both take five, then come back and post? Tap your helmets guys.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 01:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- God bless you too, good sir. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You're a fucking idiot. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Massive failure of Massive failure detected. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Massive failure detected. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Y'mean I had a sense of humor. It's not a crime. Perspective is what separates us from beasts... AND IF YOU DON"T ACCEPT THAT, I"LL KILL YOU!!!!!!!!! /sarcasm Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Massive failure detected. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- They were not red herrings.... they were blue, sheesh, get it right! Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Grims statement above protects nalikill. "This isnt an administrative matter, as it doesnt feature those men in funny hats, the sysops. The namespace is deceptive", since apparently it's not an administrative page, it's considered a community page. meaning anyone can post here.--'BPTmz 01:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- No, not it does not. It means that someone involved in the case gets a fair shake and gets to argue their point, not someone uninvolved, like Nali, gets to harass the users in the case and spam up the page making the actual case impossible to follow.--Karekmaps?! 01:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- please explain. if it's not an administration page as grim stated, then it would have to be a community page. it's sure not a user page. anyone can edit community pages right?--'BPTmz 01:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- It's a mediation page, just doesn't have its own namespace. Community pages are things like Dakerstown or Yahoomas which are subject to NPOV rules and are meant to be informative, Mediation pages exist to settle disputes(something Nali's spamming is making harder) through third party involvement, Administrative pages exist for the maintenance of the wiki, banning of vandals, deletions, mover requests, etc., User pages exist for reaching specific people, Help pages exist for finding information about the wiki, and Lexicon pages exist to provide user created back stories(same with Journal pages).--Karekmaps?! 01:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- please explain. if it's not an administration page as grim stated, then it would have to be a community page. it's sure not a user page. anyone can edit community pages right?--'BPTmz 01:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- No, not it does not. It means that someone involved in the case gets a fair shake and gets to argue their point, not someone uninvolved, like Nali, gets to harass the users in the case and spam up the page making the actual case impossible to follow.--Karekmaps?! 01:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You were the first to offer the red herring, so don't take that high horse with me. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- And a heaping helping of irrelevance, I like that. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 01:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Mmm... Nice dodging of the point. Goes well with the lack of popularity. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 01:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Mmm... Nice bold italics. Goes well with the lack of authority. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- You are not wanted in this case. You have been refused as arbitrator, so kindly GTFO and let them sort it out. --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 00:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- #1, He might, just for the sake of getting this case over with. #2, if he don't, I've proposed the alternative on his talk page, and I'm working on a 3rd option by trying to get Grim to agree to Karek if Jon does, then, if Jon agrees to Karek, we could have a semblance of fairness.... if only a semblance, but the case would be done with nonetheless. Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Jesus Christ, Nali, do you really think Jon's going to accept his fucking opponent as arbitrator? --Cyberbob DORIS CGR U! 00:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Jon Pyre, do you accept Grim S as an arbitrator? (For the love of fuck, please do, so we can get this over with and archived.) Nalikill TALK E! W! M! USAI 00:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- I humbly accept the seconding of my nomination by Nalikill. I will do the utmost to uphold the traditions of the page in my duty. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 00:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
OMFG. Why do I have to wait till 2012 to die. Kill me NOW.-- AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I think I remember a similar case in the fairly distant past where one party wouldn't accept any arbiter. It should be in the archives somewhere. Anyway, if this case is finished, that old case doesn't matter. --Toejam 21:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
