UDWiki talk:Administration/Vandal Banning/Archive/2009 05

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Iscariot

What a retarded case. "durr he HAS to know better! obv bad faith, obv harassment!!" If this is ruled vandalism, every time Honestmistake brings a case against someone I'm going to do the same for him because "he MUST know better" even though he plainly doesn't. This is punishing stupidity which is a really really shitty straw to be grasping at even by straw standards. --Cyberbob 14:51, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Sadly for you Bob I don't think I have ever brought a case against anyone.... unlike you and some of the shit you pull which would certainly be worth a case if I could be bothered to make one. --Honestmistake 19:56, 2 June 2009 (BST)
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha --Cyberbob 19:57, 2 June 2009 (BST)
I agree at this point... I was there when the the edits to Iscariots pages were happening, and the subsequent cases made... And at no point did I think these cases were illegitimate. Regardless of how I voted. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:07, 2 June 2009 (BST)
There's a vast difference between Honest and Iscariot. Don't play stupid. --  AHLGTG 18:56, 2 June 2009 (BST)
ohshi better stop playing stupid dont wanna get a slash vee bee'd --Cyberbob 19:36, 2 June 2009 (BST)
yer so kewl! --  AHLGTG 19:38, 2 June 2009 (BST)
too kool for skool --Cyberbob 19:51, 2 June 2009 (BST)

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh SA did you not read a single word of what we talked about --Cyberbob 15:34, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Are you referring to something that I may also have talked to him about? DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:39, 2 June 2009 (BST)
Probably. --Cyberbob 15:48, 2 June 2009 (BST)
Then I can probably assume that I said the same thing. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 15:48, 2 June 2009 (BST)
Hopefully. ;p --Cyberbob 15:50, 2 June 2009 (BST)
Actually, yes, I talked to you both about the same thing. I was going to hold off on this as DDR knows, but sometimes shit happens (Like karke making a case out of the blue. ><), and, well, I decided now might be a better time to play my hand. It may have been a bit earlier than originally planned, but still no less valid. And right now the spotlight is on him. Sure, we can ignore him, settle all the wiki lawyering cases he could make as soon as their started, ruling against him and saving everyone from his el terrible. But that's not the way to go about this here. I doubt he's going to get bored and leave, because there is no way every single user on this wiki will know to just ignore Izzy. It's just not possible. He'll still be able to be a dick on suggestions, and the admin pages. And we can't just go around denying everything he asks for and brings up because some of it may be legit, and we'd be no better than him if we denied those cases. He'll do nothing but still bring up needless bad faith cases against us, and anyone who may disagree with him until the day he leaves this place. We should just end it now. It is the sysops perogative(sp?) to judge cases that have no policy to govern them, we should do something about it. Something effective. Iscariot isn't going to learn from a small warning, it will only make him angrier and more hostile. The only real solution I see here is to remove him entirely for a period of time that will teach him shit will not be dealt with anymore.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:12, 2 June 2009 (BST)
Regular users weren't the ones I was thinking of when I suggested ignoring him. Sysops are really the only people he goes after because you can't claim "bias" or "abuse of position" against a normal user. If you can get the sysops to ignore him he will eventually give up. --Cyberbob 20:18, 2 June 2009 (BST)
But he will harass normal users like hell when he feels like it. And we don't need that shit around here. Not to mention that the Ops team probably won't be able to ignore him long enough for him to leave without one or two of them losing it and going berserk. You know how some of us get.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:23, 2 June 2009 (BST)

He frequently makes very good points... just a shame he can't make them without being abusive, arrogant and obnoxious! I think a popular vote would be a bad idea as there is every possibility that he would meat puppet it his way. My preference would be for a Sysop/Crat vote with 100% needed to pull any serious rules swerve such as an instant 3 month ban.... 1 month on the other hand might serve as a reasonable warning that he needs to stop being such a dick! --Honestmistake 19:54, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Honestmistake said:
I would like to think we have about as little in common as is possible for two UD players who Bob dislikes!
Honestmistake said:
He frequently makes very good points...
0wn3d --Cyberbob 20:09, 2 June 2009 (BST)
I say he frequently makes good points but then give enough monkeys typewriters and one might be be able to sign itself "Cyberbob" and I wouldn't want to be compared to that either. Now do us all a favour and stop trying to goad me into a fight... --Honestmistake 20:20, 2 June 2009 (BST)

I normally respect your judgment, Angel, but you can't get rid of someone just because they're rude/abrasive/arrogant/et cetera. Once you do that, where do you stop? Banning Iscariot over this will set a bad precedent, namely that the sysop team can get rid of anyone they don't like. I vouched for (most of) you guys because I trusted you not to abuse your power, and banning someone over their attitude towards people is simply an abuse of power. --Pestolence(talk) 18:14, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Already been done with Grim (partially, if the coup didn't happen), in a way. Except the difference here is that with Grim he was an asshole (and less of a one, at that) but also a very good contributer while Iscariot is an asshole to anything that disagrees with him and contributes nothing. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when your sole purpose is to disturb shit, people might want to boot you out.--  AHLGTG 18:29, 2 June 2009 (BST)
Grim's being kicked out should never have happened, IMNSHO (although I realize I'm probably in the minority here), since it started with people voting him out based on his attitude, but nevertheless, it never would have happened if he hadn't gone all psychotic and tried to seize absolute power. Iscariot, while you may not like his rudeness, has broken no rules of the community and should be dealt with as any other user - that is, not banned until he has exhausted all of these. --Pestolence(talk) 18:46, 2 June 2009 (BST)
You don't really know the half of the Grim case. Thank you for your input.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:19, 2 June 2009 (BST)
I've tried to keep this polite, but whatever. Did you talk to other users through some kind of super sekrit mind meld during the Grim case? Because I've read through the archives and I'm pretty sure I know enough of what went on to make the statement I just did. Thank you for your input, but kindly ditch the arrogance. --Pestolence(talk) 21:32, 2 June 2009 (BST)
The wiki isn't the only place on the internet you know. I don't have to have a "super sekrit mind meld" to be able to send Grim an email, or a PM at a forum, or any number of other ways to contact him.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 23:13, 2 June 2009 (BST)
But the information on the wiki is the only official information considered in the case. Whatever, congratulations, you're better informed than me - I still know enough about it to make the statement about it that I did. The arrogant "Thank you for your input", when I'm trying to help out with a VB case (isn't that what users are supposed to do, contribute?) really pissed me off. --Pestolence(talk) 01:22, 3 June 2009 (BST)
He's broken this one, actually: an edit not made in a good-faith attempt to improve this wiki. Cyberbob may say it's punishing stupidity, but no one can be that retarded and not be from Conserapedia (pardon my generalization). The only fault in this route (and Grim's) is that it's quite possiblely the more sloppy, messy and drama filled one. I can guarantee the same result if we tried A/PD. --  AHLGTG 18:51, 2 June 2009 (BST)
Meh. I'm not going to get sucked into the drama this will cause, especially since I can't make much difference to the outcome of this case. If this goes to a vote, I'll vote against a ban, but that's all I'm going to do involving this case. --Pestolence(talk) 18:58, 2 June 2009 (BST)
This won't be a community vote because the community has proven time and time again that the people who are harassed don't count because the people who aren't feel that the harassed just need to suck it up and "ignore the harassers". Which in Iscariots case is pretty damn hard.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:19, 2 June 2009 (BST)
It is not hard, did you seriously just ignore everything I said in that email? They're words on a screen, christ. It's not like he's coming around to your house and pounding on your front door or anything. --Cyberbob 20:21, 2 June 2009 (BST)
It could be the easiest thing in the world, but that doesn't mean it still has to happen .It's also easy to remove him from the wiki when he doesn't deserve to edit here anymore. Anyone should be able to come to this wiki whenever they want and not have to deal with his shit, which if we ignore him as evidenced by this case, he'll throw a fit and harass other users in different arts of the wiki. What did he want? Sysops action to keep a user form doing something he didn't want that user to do. When we said no, he just took the case somewhere else. That's what will keep happening. Ban his ass now, we don't have to deal with him anymore, we won't even have to ignore him, because he'll be gone. Let him stay and his shit keeps piling up no matter what we do.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:35, 2 June 2009 (BST)
K. :D I don't think think a popularity vote would be wise, I meant more like that harassment/arby/mediation policy floating around earlier. --  AHLGTG 19:00, 2 June 2009

Well, I can at least vouch that Izzy's been really helpful to me with wiki stuff. This includes bringing things to my attention on the wiki that are relevant to my groups or characters, teaching me things, answering questions, helping with coding, etc. A lot of this is done in IRC. --Fiffy 404 OBR RRF 21:27, 2 June 2009 (BST)

Indeed he is helpful to newbies. But the moment you do anything, ANYTHING, that he doesn't like you are on his shit list until the end of time. This case is again an example of his subtle harassment and trolling. He is a discreet bastard, but he will get his eventually. Maybe now is finally that golden day. And his new signature is the icing on this cake of retardity. Anyone who has that much time on their hands to hate the sysop team, should probably go out and see the sun for once.--SirArgo Talk 00:59, 3 June 2009 (BST)

Suicidalangel

Even though I'm entitled to put this on here as the reporter, we all know how the bias would kick off....

Just as a point now the obvious rally round so that one of our own can't be convicted, I'd like to illustrate to the community just how incompetent these rulings are. I point you at this vandalism case, edited by Cheese (who above said that he was about to talk to me about my current sig), Boxy (who violates the sig policy by ruling my sig illegal) and Nubis (who seems to think these two cases are the same, even though I demonstrated earlier that they aren't). So vandalism case with three sysops on it from the 28th December.

Now compare this, the exact same sig used before. The sig was there for longer than a week after they edited the case with that sig and not one of these trusted users has a problem with it. Odd how that it becomes illegal when SA resorts to bullying tactics isn't it?

One rule for us, one for them, a completely different precedent whenever one of them can be convicted. Odd that... -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 07:18, 1 June 2009 (BST)

Suicidalangel

Er Iscariot I think you meant to say "repeated unstriking of an unjustified vote". --Cyberbob 02:39, 28 May 2009 (BST)

I'm laughing so hard right now after all the times he's thrown a fit over someone else's grammar or spelling issues.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 02:42, 28 May 2009 (BST)
Iscariot just got out of bed, Iscariot is trying to work out which way is up and get over his headache first. SA's opinion rates lower than the room spinning. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 02:49, 28 May 2009 (BST)

"I invite you to explain why you are obeying these rules constitutes a difference with Cheese's rules explains the difference between what you're saying and precedence's example. -- St. Iscariot PK 04:00, 22 May 2009 (BST) " --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 02:57, 28 May 2009 (BST)

4:00am? Do you have any idea of how drunk I was? -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 02:58, 28 May 2009 (BST)
Do you have any idea how thats not an excuse? If you're drunk, don't edit, especially if you don't want people using that against you later. You are an anal retentive cunt towards other people when they mess up, now we shouldn't make fun of you because you're just as fallible as the rest of us? Wah.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 03:02, 28 May 2009 (BST)
Perhaps you'll provide the link where I say this imaginary "Pleeze dunt uze this aginst meee SAAA, i R scaaared"? Go for your life, I'm just giving you context. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 03:06, 28 May 2009 (BST)
"Do you have any idea of how drunk I was?" "Iscariot just got out of bed, Iscariot is trying to work out which way is up and get over his headache first."
Making excuses to get us to back off. Poor Iscariot. He just woke his wittle self up and needs help editing properly. Have a cry.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 03:12, 28 May 2009 (BST)
Oh noes, the mockery(!) I am filled with anguish, I shall become an hero. Can you perhaps at least take lessons from Cyberbob? -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 03:24, 28 May 2009 (BST)
Only if you go back to 1st grade where they teach basic sentence structure.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 03:28, 28 May 2009 (BST)
First grade? Can you please translate from Colonial into English? -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 03:32, 28 May 2009 (BST)
lol --Cyberbob 03:49, 28 May 2009 (BST)
lol --xoxo 06:26, 28 May 2009 (BST)
Alright, he got me there. Even with my Brit friend Cathy actually teaching me English (Traditional) instead of my "English" teachers (Colonial), I've lived around these (Colonial) people too long. :/ --Mr. Angel, Help needed? 12:21, 28 May 2009 (BST)
? --Pestolence(talk) 19:39, 28 May 2009 (BST)
You'd have to be pretty thick to not grasp what he's talking about. --Cyberbob 22:13, 28 May 2009 (BST)
I've modified it to halp you out some.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 22:19, 28 May 2009 (BST)
Thanks, Angel, thank you for your input, Bob. --Pestolence(talk) 02:13, 29 May 2009 (BST)
Move to Australia. We have the ashes. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 06:59, 29 May 2009 (BST)

User:Dante Sterling

Odd how Cheese votes not vandalism on that case, yet a user with less contributions got warned by him last month. Isn't it great when you have consistency based on who's filing the report? -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 12:14, 13 May 2009 (BST)

What you mean this guy? The one who replaced the page with a personal insult as opposed to this guy who thought he could update a number on the users page? Learn to read and thank you for your contribution. -- Cheese 12:19, 13 May 2009 (BST)
One guy, two edits, warned. Next guy, three edits out of his userspace, all directed at a user, not warned. Difference in circumstance? Nope, both are directed at PKer characters as a means of gaining revenge, one being a page blank, the other being the claim of a kill against him. There is no difference in counting coup against a player and blanking their page with insults, both serve to denigrate the user in question and claim the credit. Also, I've yet to see the reasoning that this is anything other than a clever vandal, three edits to a userpage (just enough for an insta-perma) and he suddenly decides to have his own userpage? Seems much more like an attempt by a vandal that knows the system to get around the three-unconstructive-edits rule. Did this occur? Probably not.
Also, wasn't talking about that case, but thanks for playing.
And while we're here, would you like to link to the policy that shows that the onus of reverting vandalism is on the person reporting it? I'd love to see this community approved document you appear to be referencing about the 'proper' filing of vandal reports. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 12:30, 13 May 2009 (BST)
Thank you for your time and I do hope you enjoyed your e-jerk.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 21:52, 13 May 2009 (BST)
Newbishness =/= page blanking arseclownery. Pls 2 B assuming good faith -- boxy talkteh rulz 16:33 13 May 2009 (BST)

Three sysops and still no-one can tell where this policy is that says a report is not 'proper' unless I revert the vandalism. Waiting.... -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 07:39, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Notice Cheese fails to remove the vandalism on the most recent case, apparently a sysop of his calibre is willing to let impersonation stand on this wiki to prove a point in a dispute with another user. I always thought it was supposed to be trusted users, not petty users.... -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 08:13, 14 May 2009 (BST)

Do it yourself you lazy shit. -- Cheese 08:15, 14 May 2009 (BST)
And for the record: From the main VB page If you see Vandalism in progress, don't wait for System Operators to deal with it, as there may be no System Operator online at the time. Lodge the report, then start reverting pages back to their original form. -- Cheese 08:17, 14 May 2009 (BST)
As proven many times recently on VB, all that crap isn't policy and there is no onus on a normal user to follow any of that shit, bring me the policy or go make one. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 08:34, 14 May 2009 (BST)
You revert vandalism because it is the right thing to do, regardless if it's written in policy or not. To do not when able is just being neglectful. Or lazy. --  AHLGTG 18:26, 14 May 2009 (BST)
People who disappear and leave this wiki without a 'crat and don't even start the process to elect a new one have no fucking right telling me what's moral and what's not. The page clearly says vandalism 'in progress', the vandalism was long completed by the time I got there, look to thine own yard before you tell me what's wrong with mine. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 19:31, 14 May 2009 (BST)
So obviously you wouldn't revert because it was already gone, this doesn't change the fact that you remove vandalism in the future. As proven many times recently on VB, all that crap isn't policy and there is no onus on a normal user to follow any of that shit, bring me the policy or go make one. Nothing forces you to revert vandalism, but it's damn useful when you do. You are here to contribute, yes? --  AHLGTG 21:42, 14 May 2009 (BST)
He hasn't been here to contribute in ages. Just cause trouble where he can. Oh, and at least you man up to your mistakes. Anytime Iscariot is wrong, he ignores it and continues to preach.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 23:50, 14 May 2009 (BST)
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