User talk:Boxy/Suggestions/Heal Over Time

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Discussions from developing suggestions

Heal Over Time (modifided)

Timestamp: -- boxy talk • teh rulz 09:22 18 February 2011 (BST)
Type: Healing change
Scope: Application of FAKs to survivors
Description: At the moment, First Aid Kits (FAKs) are a powerful tool for survivors in real time combat situations. If there is a survivor online with a full load of FAKs, there is no way that a single zombie can kill any survivor in that location (unless the online survivor is inattentive). All they need to do is continue to apply FAKs to the target survivor (even themselves) when they get anywhere near death. A zombie has no chance to keep up with the healing.

This suggestion would change the application of FAKs to limit the healing that can be done instantly. Instead of all healing being done at the instant that the FAK is applied, 1/5th of the potential healing would be dealt at the time, and the rest spread over the 4 following AP ticks.

  • 1 HP per tick when healed by unskilled survivors.
  • 2 HP per tick when healed by a survivor with the first aid skill.
  • 3 HP per tick when healed by a survivor with surgery, if they are in a powered hospital.

All XP will be credited to the healer at the time the FAK is applied, regardless of whether all HP are gained before the patient dies. This means that each FAK will have the potential to deal exactly the same amount of healing, and will gain the same XP as before, it's just that the healing takes time to take effect.

It is more realistic, and gives zombies a chance against healers in real-time situations.

Discussion (Heal Over Time (modifided))

Previous DS discussions can be found here. I'm just putting this up here to see if I've made any glaring errors, before putting it up for voting -- boxy talk • teh rulz 09:25 18 February 2011 (BST)

How would the HP be displayed of a healing survivor? --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 11:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes. For survivors with diagnosis, it would show the actual HP, as well as "potential healing", but FAKs added to survivors who were already at max. potential healing would be uneffectual, and not consume the FAK. I think healing an already fully healed survivor consumes and AP, but not an FAK, at the moment... we should probably keep that as is... -- boxy talk • teh rulz 13:59 18 February 2011 (BST)
Yeah, it does. As someone who recently made a newbie for kicks, I found it quite annoying to lose AP all the time by trying to heal someone who didn't need it. Shadok T Balance is power 23:52, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

How much screen clutter is this going to create (without any scripts, obviously).--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 19:01, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


Heal Over Time

Timestamp: -- boxy talk • teh rulz 09:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Type: Healing change
Scope: Application of FAKs
Description: At the moment, First Aid Kits (FAKs) are a powerful tool for survivors in real time combat situations. If there is a survivor online with a full load of FAKs, there is no way that a single zombie can kill any survivor in that location (unless the online survivor is inattentive). All they need to do is continue to apply FAKs to the target survivor (even themselves) when they get anywhere near death. A zombie has no chance to keep up with the healing.

This suggestion would change the application of FAKs to limit the healing that can be done immediately. Multiple FAKs can still be applied, however only 5 HP (10 with First Aid, 15 with surgery in a hospital) will be added initially, and 1 HP each half hour (on the AP tick) thereafter.

On the UD screen, a healing survivor would show as below.

TripleU said:
Also here are HealthyDude (60HP), HealingDude (34+15HP), and HurtDude (46HP)

Each FAK applied will still only cost 1 AP, and have the potential to heal the same amount of damage (depending on the skill level of the healer). Survivors with diagnosis would still be able to tell how much health a survivor had, and in addition, how many HP were yet to be added over time due to already applied FAKs. The colour coding on injured survivors would instead be applied to survivors who still needed FAKs to heal completely (not just those who were in the process of healing, and only needed time). FAKs couldn't be applied to survivors who already had enough healing potential to fully restore them (over time).

Infections are only cured at the time an FAK is applied. If a surviver is bitten while in the process of healing, the HP will continue to be added, but the infection will remain unless another FAK is applied.

If the survivor dies before all HP has been applied, that HP is lost, and he stands up as normal, as a zombie with full HP.

I'm unsure as to whether to apply the same rules to zombies... the way I play zombies, FAK healing is inconsequencial. Unsure if it's different for different styles of play.

Discussion (Heal Over Time)

Previous discussion that inspired this suggestion -- boxy talk • teh rulz 09:56 12 February 2011 (BST)

Am I right in understanding that no matter your skill level with FAKs you intially get 5HP and the remainder (if any; +5 for First Aid, +10 for Surgery) is applied over time? It's just that I found the description above a little unclear. - User:Whitehouse 13:05, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I know, I'm finding it hard to explain it without making it TL;DR. No, the initial healing will be dependant on the skill of the healer. If they have surgery, and are in a powered hospital, the initial healing will still be 15HP, but further heals will only happen over time (ie. the second (15HP) FAK applied will take 7.5 hours to take full effect -- boxy talk • teh rulz 07:08 13 February 2011 (BST)
E.g. I FAK a survivor, they gain 15hp, but any further FAKs I give them heal over time rather than as a one off payment?--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 09:44, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
From the discussion Boxy linked to:
Boxy said:
I think and appropriate change would be that there is a limit to how much healing can be done to one player in each half hour (AP regen) period. You can still apply FAKs, but the healing wouldn't take affect until the next AP tick. This would mean that survivors couldn't heal quicker than a zombie can attack. Nothing lamer than watching the survivor you are attacking miraculously gain full health in the time it takes you to claw at him a couple of times
--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 14:45, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Ah right. So what resets the ability for the first FAK to instant heal? Attaining full health? - User:Whitehouse 14:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Ah yes, something I hadn't considered. Perhaps 2 hours without any healing being done? -- boxy talk • teh rulz 01:46 14 February 2011 (BST)

This is fucking genius. ----Anarchomutualist says: The state is war, ⓐnarchy is order. 04:42, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Fantastic idea, awful execution. Rather than have it be based on the second and subsequent FAKS, use initial health as your marker. Survivors with 45HP or more can be instantly healed for whatever the relvant amout is, survivors below that will heal at 1HP per AP tick, and survivors at 12HP or less will heal at 1HP per hour. Idea is that the more hurt you are, the more it takes to recover, plus it means that it can be caclulated and kept track of much more easily. If a survivor is healing to a point where they will reach full HP with no interference, attempting to use an FAK on them should bring up a message along the lines of XXX is recovering well and not use your FAK. Nothing to be done! 19:07, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

That's a good way to simplify it. However, you'd still have the same problem (survivors healing much faster than you can attack) with 45+HP targets -- boxy talk • teh rulz 01:46 14 February 2011 (BST)
It works as a thematic parallel to Beachhead Tactics - once the initial breach is big enough, the job gets easier from there. Nothing to be done! 01:50, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Well what you could do is make all FAK's outside the hospital heal only 5 HP instantly and then with the required skills they gain 5 hp every 30 minutes up to a max of 15, per FAK. Now with the surgery skill and you are in a lit hospital they target gains an instant 10 HP plus 5 HP per 30 minutes up to a max of 15, per FAK. In either case all sub subsequent FAKs applied will take effect at 5hp per 30 minutes. With the diagnosis skill the player not only sees others current HP but their healing status as well. The text could possibly be red with a + besides it or just plain blue. Similar to an infection showing green as a zombie. If the targets current healing rate from FAKs will get them to max you get the message XXX is recovering well with an AP wasted but keeping the FAK, you only keep the FAK after diagnosis is purchased( theory is that with your added knowledge you realize they are healing well enough before cracking open your kit).       23:15, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand why there should be any instant effect. It should just add on 'recovering health', to be converted in to health in increments of 5 every AP tick. Makes RT healing worthless while still enabling complete recovery in under than 6 hours. --VVV RPGMBCWS 01:22, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I completely agree with you TripleU but it's hard to get some people to accept sudden, yet needed changes.       03:23, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

How about this: Survivor HP would be shown like so: 50(0). The first number being his current HP and the number in parenthesis being his potential healing at a rate of 1 HP per tick. Each tick 1 HP would transfer from "potential healing" into his Current HP.

Example: Random Survivor has HP 34(5). At the next half hour tick his HP would show 35(4).

Potential Healing can never rise above the difference between the Survivors Max HP and his potential healing.

Example: A Survivor with a max of 50 HP is hurt and currently has 30 HP. His potential healing could not rise above (20). The same Survivor with 10 HP would have a potential healing max of (40).

Once a Survivors potential healing is maxed, FAKs cease to have any effect on them. (except healing Infections)

Example: Random Survivor without Body Building has HP 30(20). Any FAK applied would give that Survivor +0(+0) and give the healer a message informing them of the failed attempt. I would assume that no AP would be wasted by the healer and the FAK would not be used up. Perhaps Diagnosis would also allow a Survivor to see a characters full HP, both current and potential to avoid a lot of wasted time.

Now healing applied by FAK would add as follows:

Fak +2(+3)

Fak with First Aid +4(+6)

Fak with Surgery in Powered Hospital +6(+9)


Example: Random Survivor has HP 15(0). a Non-First Aid FAK is applied and he now has HP 17(3). Random Survivor goes to a powered Hospital where another Fak is applied by someone with Surgery and his HP now shows 23(12).

If a Survivor dies, his "potential healing" drops to (0). This would allow Survivors to still do some real time healing but they would have to consider how much of their "potential healing" might be wasted if that Survivor ends up dying before he can gain it all.

Infections can be only healed instantly whenever a FAK is directly applied.

Zombies can be healed but only the first number would be applied. So a Zombie healed by a non first aid FAK would gain 2 HP. Personally I would just go with FAKs don't work on Zombies at all, but whatever.

A Zombie with Digestion that successful Bites a target or Feeds on a Corpse gains +1(+3) HP. They would then gain potential HP at ticks just like Survivors. If a Zombie dies, his "potential healing" drops to (0).

--

| T | BALLS! | 17:37 15 February 2011(UTC)

I like that idea, it does simplify it greatly. Although I would perhaps reduce it 1, 2 and 3 HP (for basic, first aid and surgery, respectively). Adding multiple FAKs could see an almost instant HP gain of 20 odd HP. How about 1/5th of the HP of each FAK applied is added instantly, and the same each tick until all potential healing is done? Also, I don't think that digestion needs to be messed with. Dead bodies are seldom left inside long in a seige... and if a survivor is attacking an active zombie, dumping the bodies first would prevent it recharging health -- boxy talk • teh rulz 02:19 16 February 2011 (BST)
Probably right about the Digestion. It's generally not worth Feeding as it is. No need to make it worse. So we could just go with Zombie don't have "potential healing" at all.
Something I didn't think of before, Zombies gaining lessor HP through FAK's would lead to Survivors being able to XP farm them a lot easier. Not sure how I feel about that. Healing Zombies is right up there with Life-Cultisting as far as plain silliness goes.-- | T | BALLS! | 13:07 16 February 2011(UTC)


New FAK rules

Timestamp: -- | T | BALLS! | 00:54 24 April 2010(UTC)
Type: Improvement
Scope: FAK's/Healing
Description: FAK's in this game are ridiculous. Injuries should heal slower than they are inflicted but in Urban Dead its just the opposite, they heal much faster than inflicted. FAK's are overpowered anyway even if you ignore the rest. So here are some new rules:

1 FAK heals 1 HP.

First Aid Skill increases it to 1 FAK heals 2 HP.

Surgery Skill increases it to 1 FAK heals 4 HP if in a powered Hospital.


Cons for Survivors: Obviously takes more FAK's to heal up.

Pro for Survivors: Low level players will have a lot more chance for XP gain.

Discussion (New FAK rules)

Fuck, he's alive. Also how would this affect xp gain? Nothing to be done! 01:02, 24 April 2010 (BST)

I didn't think about that. Could make it too easy to XP whore if it remained 5 per I suppose. Suggestions?-- | T | BALLS! | 01:04 24 April 2010(UTC)
XP equal to HP healed. Nothing to be done! 01:06, 24 April 2010 (BST)


Healing does need a nerf, but this makes the game less fun by increasing search time overwhelmingly. I think and appropriate change would be that there is a limit to how much healing can be done to one player in each half hour (AP regen) period. You can still apply FAKs, but the healing wouldn't take affect until the next AP tick. This would mean that survivors couldn't heal quicker than a zombie can attack. Nothing lamer than watching the survivor you are attacking miraculously gain full health in the time it takes you to claw at him a couple of times -- boxy talk • teh rulz 01:09 24 April 2010 (BST)

I agree completely. Healing is ridiculously overpowered. Dropping the HP healed isn't the answer, but this would work great. No added 'omg, more searching!?! so boring!' but the removal of 'Kill the medic, not the heavy!'
Also here are HealthyDude (60HP), HealingDude (34+15HP), and HurtDude (46HP) --VVV RPGMBCWS 04:51, 24 April 2010 (BST)
My original idea was along these lines but I thought people would get all K.I.S.S. on me. Then there is the healing someone who already has their heal for the half hour and how that works. I guess there could be a new color for that. One fix for doing it my way would be to increase search rates for FAK's so they are easier to find. I like that better because it limits the total healing potential that a single Survivor could carry at once. Instead of a Survivor being able to carry 50 FAK's at once for max 250/500/750 possible healing potential (just looking at those number makes me sick) it would be 50/100/200. A lot more sane. Increased Search Rates would make Hospitals a great Resource Point as well! As Survivors could cycle through their FAKs like mad as long as they had patients to treat. Anything that puts more focus on the "lesser Resource Points" over those Malls is a plus in my book.-- | T | BALLS! | 08:10 24 April 2010(UTC)
I could certainly get behind VVV's idea of only 5 HP-worth of healing getting applied every AP tick, as long as you could still apply multiple FAKs to the same player (they just wouldn't take effect right away). So now I suppose I'll just wait and see if that idea ever shows its face for voting... --Maverick Talk - OBR Praise Knowledge! 404 06:38, 28 April 2010 (BST)

Or you could make the FAKs simular to a fuel can, in that you find 1 that weighs a shit load, the number of 5/10/15HP heals it deals are limited to the amount of medical equipment inside the kit. keep the search rates the same all over the place. i dunno, just tossing ideas out. but i agree with the basis of this suggestion.--Dirty 03:01, 24 April 2010 (BST)

That sounds cool too.-- | T | BALLS! | 08:13 24 April 2010(UTC)

How bout scotty don't! -- 

Emot-argh.gif 03:24, 24 April 2010 (BST)

F.A.K.K.² --Weed.jpgArthur DentWeed.jpg BIN LADEN IS DEAD!!!!! 09:24, 24 April 2010 (BST)

It changes game a little - I've just have to spend more boring time searching. --Girobu 14:09, 26 April 2010 (BST)

What if you found more at one time? Say when you search you could find 1 to 3 each search.--Pesatyel 02:08, 27 April 2010 (BST)
So what? This guy wants play zed without nerf, his next suggestion will (I think) - "New cade rules - one attack to destroy all cades around" :) --Girobu 09:44, 27 April 2010 (BST)
What?--Pesatyel 03:37, 28 April 2010 (BST)
The plain balance shift, I meant --Girobu 07:40, 28 April 2010 (BST)

I think that zombies healing is just a powerful. I mean 1 AP to restore 4 HP no item needed, and bodies are found everywhere. You need to keep the game balanced.--V darkstar 13:46, 27 April 2010 (BST)

How about 1 FAK heals 1HP immediately and continues healing 1 HP per AP tick until it reaches its current total (IE 5/10/15) depending on all the factors. That way the FAK still heals the same amount, it just doesn't do it instantly. --Honestmistake 21:40, 27 April 2010 (BST)

I like the idea.--Pesatyel 03:37, 28 April 2010 (BST)
You think, that AP equals to hour, ninute or so, but it's not true. AP is a single action. What you're saying is just bad. Cutting AP's for no reason makes game boring, not interesting. Boring game = less gamers= much more boring game. --Girobu 07:39, 28 April 2010 (BST)
You obviously don't understand, read it carefully and you might realize that I am not suggesting that using the FAK cost more.... just that each tickover that restores an AP would also restore a HP. Put simply if "total noob" uses a FAK he would no longer restore 5HP instantly, instead he would restore 1 immediately and 1 more every half hour until either the target is fully healed or the full 5 are regained (2 hours) In no way am I suggesting that "noob" needs to stay and keep clicking, just that the "patient" no longer gets the full benefit in one single lump.

The point has been made before that a single Action Point represents a single action - building a barricade, or walking from one building to another would obviously take more time than whipping out a newspaper and slapping someone in the face with it. The action point spent using the FAK represents the time it takes to crack that bad boy open and apply some magical healing salve. A tendency towards realism in a game like this makes it less fun for everyone - especially those trenchies who run around with ten shotguns stuffed in the waistand of their trousers! Sage|Carr Cobra 21:44, 27 April 2010 (BST)

I'm not sure what your point is exactly. Did you read the suggestion?--Pesatyel 03:37, 28 April 2010 (BST)

Too strong of a nerf. FAKs go pretty quick as it is. I can't imagine rebuilding a suburb or maintaining a conflict against any kind of zombie presence if it took 8 or 9 FAKs to fully restore 1 survivor. This would hasten the end of the game as we know it.--GANG Giles Sednik CAPD 12:32, 28 April 2010 (BST)

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