Difference between revisions of "User talk:The Rooster/Archive"

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'''ARCHIVE'''
{| style="background:#C9C; border:solid 3px #639" cellpadding="2px"
Oldest posts (at time of original message) are at the top.
|There are currently two archives:
 
*[[User talk:The Rooster/Archive/2008|Messages from 2008]]
Subheadings have be added to some of the longer conversations, that did not always exist before archiving.
*[[User talk:The Rooster/Archive/2009|Messages from 2009]]
 
==Welcome==
 
Welcome aboard
 
Greetings to the wiki. Let us know if you need any help.
 
You want the whole Whats a wiki and how do i edit it thing or are you alright. anyway. If you need a hand im more than willing to help. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:01, 6 May 2008 (BST)
 
:I'm reasonably informed enough that I should manage to not go deleting everything. Though if I do run into problems, I'll ask for help then. - [[User:The Rooster|The Rooster]] 18:20, 6 May 2008 (BST)
::A rooster, thanks for that, you are a wiki legend, yet ironically didnt sign your post on my page. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:24, 24 May 2008 (BST)
:::My sheer awesomeness needs no introduction. Joking aside, I'll just fix that... {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 18:26, 24 May 2008 (BST)
 
==SIM bot==
 
Here's the 81 pages that would need updating:
 
[[SIM:16,16]], [[SIM:16,27]], [[SIM:16,38]], [[SIM:16,49]], [[SIM:16,5]], [[SIM:16,60]], [[SIM:16,71]], [[SIM:16,82]], [[SIM:16,93]], [[SIM:27,16]], [[SIM:27,27]], [[SIM:27,38]], [[SIM:27,49]], [[SIM:27,5]], [[SIM:27,60]], [[SIM:27,71]], [[SIM:27,82]], [[SIM:27,93]], [[SIM:38,16]], [[SIM:38,27]], [[SIM:38,38]], [[SIM:38,49]], [[SIM:38,5]], [[SIM:38,60]], [[SIM:38,71]], [[SIM:38,82]], [[SIM:38,93]], [[SIM:49,16]], [[SIM:49,27]], [[SIM:49,38]], [[SIM:49,49]], [[SIM:49,5]], [[SIM:49,60]], [[SIM:49,71]], [[SIM:49,82]], [[SIM:49,93]], [[SIM:5,16]], [[SIM:5,27]], [[SIM:5,38]], [[SIM:5,49]], [[SIM:5,5]], [[SIM:5,60]], [[SIM:5,71]], [[SIM:5,82]], [[SIM:5,93]], [[SIM:60,16]], [[SIM:60,27]], [[SIM:60,38]], [[SIM:60,49]], [[SIM:60,5]], [[SIM:60,60]], [[SIM:60,71]], [[SIM:60,82]], [[SIM:60,93]], [[SIM:71,16]], [[SIM:71,27]], [[SIM:71,38]], [[SIM:71,49]], [[SIM:71,5]], [[SIM:71,60]], [[SIM:71,71]], [[SIM:71,82]], [[SIM:71,93]], [[SIM:82,16]], [[SIM:82,27]], [[SIM:82,38]], [[SIM:82,49]], [[SIM:82,5]], [[SIM:82,60]], [[SIM:82,71]], [[SIM:82,82]], [[SIM:82,93]], [[SIM:93,16]], [[SIM:93,27]], [[SIM:93,38]], [[SIM:93,49]], [[SIM:93,5]], [[SIM:93,60]], [[SIM:93,71]], [[SIM:93,82]], [[SIM:93,93]]
 
 
The pages all start (at the very top of the file) with code somewhat like this (sometimes with whitespace / line break variances) followed by information that never needs changing:
<pre>
{{SIMpic
|image=Image:2008-5-6 scent map from 93-93.png
|page=SIM:93,93
|sig={{User:Swiers/Sig}} 06:13, 6 May 2008 (BST)
}}<noinclude>
</pre>
 
Basically I need a bot to look at the <code><nowiki>|sig={{User:Swiers/Sig}} 06:13, 6 May 2008 (BST)</nowiki></code> bit (obviously there may be other sigs) and, if the timestamp is more than 7 days old, change the entire block above to as follows:
<pre>
{{SIMpic
|image=Image:expired.png
|page={{subst:PAGENAME}}
|sig={{expired}}
}}<noinclude>
</pre>
 
:I've begun some work into recovering pages and altering them as nessessary. However, I've encountered several major problems with inconsistant formatting.
 
:On 49,82 and 60,82 The user tag is signed as 'iPrep' but without the usual square bracket or curly brace. On 71,82 the user tag is 'iPrep', again without the usual code, then followed by your properly tagged signing. It's playing havoc with my code as it tries to identify where the timestamp actually starts.
:I've worked around these specific cases for now, but if any other formatting variation occurs then the bot's not going to be able to perform updates on those pages. It won't update a page if it can't pull out the timestamp, but that is somewhat contradictory to its purpose.
:It may be worthwhile to add some text on the example template that appears at the bottom of each page to reminds people that correct formatting is a must. [[User:The Rooster|The Rooster]] 21:47, 9 May 2008 (BST)
::Hmm, the problem is, potentially anything COULD go in that sig area.  I understand it SHOULD be a normal valid sig, but even those doesn't always have square brackets (mine don't).  Why not just use a regular expression to pull out the timestamp?  A match for
/(\d\d? [Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sep|Aug|Nov|Dec] 20\d\d)/
::ought to cover it, right?  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 22:37, 9 May 2008 (BST)
:::I could implement that, but I've actually managed to get around those instances anyway (You're right though, a regular expression would be the better method) and since it all appears to be working I won't bother going back and fixing the code unless the bot ever has trouble ripping out a timestamp in future. Besides, I hadn't ever bothered to look up the revelent C# code as I've not needed it. I am the master of procrastination. Anyway, I'm just checking a few last things out, probably try a proper test run sometime tommorow. [[User:The Rooster|The Rooster]] 23:11, 9 May 2008 (BST)
::::Cool!  Looking forwards to that.  And I suppose that even in cases where the bot misses the occasional oddly formated "sig" value, the worst that will happen is an image doesn't get expired, right?  In which case, either a human being eventually notices and expires it manually, or it just gets updated in the normal course of events, hopefully fixing the "sig" value.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 23:19, 9 May 2008 (BST)
:::::You're absolutely right in that analysis. And if I have anything to do with it, It'll probably be me fixing the sig, within a minute of finding somebody prevented my poor bot from working right. PS: Is the double signing intentional? [[User:The Rooster|The Rooster]] 23:40, 9 May 2008 (BST)
::::::Nope.  Probably an editing typo made when fixing my own post.  Oh, and I'll be sure not to manually expire any more pages, so the bot actually has some test cases to work on!  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 23:54, 9 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::Ran the script about 15 minutes ago. It saw two images as already expired, and went and expired 5 more for good measure. I quickly checked the pages it had updated and they all see to be fine, the map hasn't broken either, so that's good. One problem I did notice was that originally one page has an image that had expired, but the tag was user signed. I manually fixed this before I ran the edit, as if the bot is the only thing to expire images from now on, it won't ever encounter this problem in the future. I'll run it once a day like the other bot. I must say I was mighty impressed that 74 images were less than a week old, that's a pretty high tally. [[User:The Rooster|The Rooster]] 14:37, 10 May 2008 (BST)
Looks like its working well.  Thanks, that saves me 15 minutes or so a day... hours each week.  One small favor- could you try to NOT run the bot on Sundays?  That's the day I do my archive image for the week, and I'd hate to have a SIM page get expired right before I do the archive image.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 00:49, 12 May 2008 (BST)
:No problem {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 14:08, 12 May 2008 (BST)
 
 
===Phase 2?===
OK, now that this is working so well, it seems that the tool-tip timestamps are pretty much pointless; either the image is less than a week old (and visible) or its GONE.  Originally they were needed to make it easy to spot expired images, but now there simply aren't any!<br>Given this new situation, what would be much easier (for people updating the map) to do is to just have 1 image per SIM with a fixed name, and upload a new version of that image whenever updating the page.  This would basically makes a SIM update a "1 click" operation!<br>HOWEVER, this hinges on the ability of you to adapt your bot to look at that image's history page or some such (I could provide a list of the image names that will be used), determine how long it has been since a new version has been uploaded, and either upload the "expired" version as a replacement, roll back to that version, or otherwise somehow change the image that gets shown when that image is included on a page to the "expired" version.  Is that technically possible?  Something you would be willing to tackle?  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 06:11, 15 May 2008 (BST)
:I'd contest that that timestamp is useless. It's actually rather useful. It provides a quick way for users of the map to check how recent the picture is, they might decide an old but not yet expired image is inaccurate if they think there's been a lot of changes in there area, at least, that's how I find it. If you think that the pro of easier updates is enough to outweigh the loss of timestamps, then I'd be willing to have a bash at it. I believe that it would be possible to look at an image history and check the timetamps, then revert to the first revision if nessessary.  {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:27, 15 May 2008 (BST)
::That would work.  I agree that the timestamps are potentially useful for what you said.  However, the updates would take MUCH less time to do if updating was as simple as 1) clicking on an image on the map (which imdeiately lets you see how old it is anyhow; the file history is shown on the image page) and then 2) uploading a new version of that file.  It also would be MUCH easier to explain how to do.  I think the result would be more frequent updates, hence fresher images on average, which potentially would make the absence of timestamps less of an issue.  Truth told, I suspect most folks look at [[SIMgrid]] anyhow, which already doesn't allow you to see the timestamps.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 23:17, 15 May 2008 (BST)
:::People are lazy, they probably look at the grid because it's the one linked to on the main page. But you put a good case forward otherwise and I'm inclined to agree, faster contributions would indeed negate any real need for timestamps. My only request would be that the initial version of any page/image is the expired version, that way I can revert to the first version each time and save doing anything unnessessarily more complicated. So if you provide that list (or a link to the list) then I'll fiddle about with some sandbox testing when I get the chance. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:23, 16 May 2008 (BST)
::::Cool, I'll get to work on a new core SIM that has nothing but appropriately named "expired" images in it, and give you a list of the 81 image names used when I'm done.  Then I can just move the images over (a one time pain in the ass) and adjust the map update instructions, etc.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 20:32, 16 May 2008 (BST)
:::::Here's one of the image pages: [[:Image:SIM-5-5.png]].  The rest are similarly named, and can be seen on [[Scenteral_Intelligence_Map/core_map_2]].  There is a fair bit of text in the image summary that really does need to stay there regardless of how the image changes, but its just a template, {{tl|SIMimage}}.  If at all possible, if would be ideal that, when the bot reverts the image, that template is put in the summary field.  I'm not sure if you are allowed / required to enter a new summary (I suspect that is the case) or if the old one gets used.  I used the summary on most (but not all) of them when I uploaded them the first time, so (if you can force it to be used) try and keep an eye out for cases where reverting to the first version causes it to vanish; I'll come up with an alternate solution (like deleting the entire image page, then re-making it).  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 03:23, 17 May 2008 (BST)
::::::I've just run a quick test on this image here. [[:Image:TestImage.PNG]] I can have the bot upload and edit the description as it likes. My main problem will be testing the timestamps as the File history exsists outside normal page text. I'll have to mess about a bit with my streams and have it lift the pages source rather than the usual page text. At any rate, should be able to get it all working if I can recvoer those timestamps. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:00, 17 May 2008 (BST)
::::::I've got code that now recovers the full page source. It's dead slow since there's so much text, but it gets all 81 pages nicly in about 2 minutes. The timestamps are recovered properly and all, so it's basically ready. I've got a copy of the expired image sitting in my HD ready to upload as nessessary. When do you want to have this thing start running exactly? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:11, 17 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::I just took the new "all image" version of the map code "live", so you can start it running now.  Also, if you could use the old version to actually DELETE all the old pages 9the [[p|SIM: xx,yy]] ones) or maybe to just replace them with a brief text explaining the are obsolete and a link to [[Scenteral Intelligence Map/update info]], that would be excellent; I've actually seen a few updates to those pages since I took the new version live.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 22:48, 19 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::: I've just added a helpful comment to every page and then requested a speedy deletion on the lot. Feel a bit sorry for whoever has to process that. The new images, unsurprisingly, haven't had time to go out of date yet. The new bot may have to wait for a few days yet before it gets to make edits. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 00:27, 20 May 2008 (BST)
::::::::: Looks good.  I may just go ahead and SD them myself without formal processing.  All the images currently showing are less than 5 days old; I didn;t "carry over" any that would go out of date super fast, so even if it takes 7 days for the bot to catch up, it won;t be too bad.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 02:48, 20 May 2008 (BST)
 
==Botage==
I've stuck the Bots User Pages into their own [[:Category:Bots|category]] for easy reference just in case you make any other ones. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 19:50, 11 May 2008 (BST)
:Thanks. Would you happen to know how I got the accounts marked as bots such that they are known to the wiki? I mean in the sense you could hit the 'show bots' on recent changes or your watchlist and actually that would affect if they showed up or not. I'm new to such things [[User:The Rooster|The Rooster]] 22:25, 11 May 2008 (BST)
::I think that would need to have a specific User Rights setup for that to work. As a result, you'd need to talk to [[Kevan]] to get that sorted out as Sysops can't do that sort of thing. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 22:29, 11 May 2008 (BST)
:::Well, since mine don't make updates that often, I won't worry about it since people hopefully won't mind (Heck, most probably haven't even noticed) {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:41, 11 May 2008 (BST)
 
==Danger Reports==
we seem to be working towards the same goal of working on danger reports, care to team up somehow? --[[User:Scotw|Scotw]] 18:31, 15 May 2008 (BST)
:I'm re-running my bot to see what pages it still can't handle. (I've be fixing those it can't) Once it's done I'll post a list, they're likly pages needing templates or that need to be resigned to the dustbin over at SD, that should cut down in searching for broken pages. In the meantime, can you get your head around what's going on with [[User:DangerReport/The Flowar Building (Earletown)]] and [[User:DangerReport/The Flowar Building]]. It doesn't seem like a usual "Disambigious page with suburb suffix now overrules this ambigious page".
 
Looks like the search completed while I was typing this up, here's the failed pages. Template fixes are great. SD's are great when needed. If it's a disambig, just post the name here as the bot can't handle them, but they don't need deleting of course.<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Blakesley Grove Police Department<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Factory 35,85<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Factory 63,0<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Forshaw Towers<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Hodgkinson Row Fire Station<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Lucius General Hospital<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Lumber Mall<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Maney Lane Police Department <br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Matraves Crescent Police Department<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Midelton Crescent Police Department<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Monck Auto Repair <br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Nuttycombe Auto Repair<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Oswald General Hospital <br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Pollet Street Railway Station<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Pople Place School<br>
Could not resolve timestamp from User:DangerReport/Prickett Street Fire Station<br>
 
We may not need to search for them , but we still have to edit those suckers. I'll work from the bottom of the pile, if you start up top, it should save us having edit conflicts.
 
Still working on the bot, so I might not get much done though.
 
{{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:28, 15 May 2008 (BST)
 
Edited the list, I fixed a bunch of them, they've been removed since it takes up so much pagespace. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:58, 15 May 2008 (BST)
 
now that you finished all the work, looks like we did a good job :) next time i will make sure i stay on longer than five minutes after offering to help, sorry --[[User:Scotw|Scotw]] 23:57, 15 May 2008 (BST)
 
No worries. To be frank all this updating has made me consider if the whole system needs a overhaul and cleanup. I'll have to think about it, a totally standard template system where everything's in good order would be great, but maybe not worth the effort, it would be some 700 pages to go through after all. I dunno, any thoughts? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:37, 16 May 2008 (BST)
 
== Sysop? ==
 
Are you a sysop?  If you aren't, would you like to be nominated?  You seem to be making some very useful contributions and are trustworthy.  The extra powers (moving pages, deleting pages) may come in handy for you (it does me), although pressure to get involved in the "judicial" side can be annoying.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 20:27, 16 May 2008 (BST)
 
:I'll pass for the moment thanks. I certainly have no wish to deal with petty disputes between users, and I'm getting by otherwise, [[A/SD]] has certainly seen my presense over the last few days. Besides, I've barly done that much, I can't imagine any vote would pass since I'm not known to much of the community. Nice of you to suggest though. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:41, 16 May 2008 (BST)
::Hmm. When you showed up on ParserFunctions discussion, I could have sworn you were a venerable member of the wiki from way-back-when. It must be the aura of respectability that the simultaneous use of proper capitalization, punctuation, and sentence structure bring to ''any'' member of the wiki community. And Swiers, how '''''do''''' you manage to avoid the general pettiness and infighting that so typifies the life of a sysop? I really have to say I was shocked when I noticed that you '''were''' one, because I'd never associated you with the former. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 19:15, 23 May 2008 (BST)
:::Its easy to avoid; you just don't stick your nose in peoples business, or take anything personally.  However, it also "helps" that I do the bare minimum of adminstrative tasks, including NEVER having been involved in an arbitration ruling.  Truth told, I work more as a "privlidged editor" than sysop, and stated as much when I took the post.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 21:01, 23 May 2008 (BST)
 
==Thanks==
I just want to say "Thank you" I may have thought (At the time) my edits to [[The MacMillan Hotel]] where cool however as you pointed out, they where not. Thanks for pointing out my misstake, as now I can learn from it. --{{User:Vincent-Childs/sig}}
--21:59, 25 May 2008 (BST)
:Cool, maybe. Easy on the eyes. Not really. Still, you're welcome to add any valid info back in they might've been cut due to the revert. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:02, 25 May 2008 (BST)
 
== New DangerReport format for mast buildings ==
 
Okay, check it out, here's an example of the new format for DangerReports at mast building locations: [[User:DangerReport/The Norvell Building]]. Tell me if you see the need for any changes. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 05:43, 26 May 2008 (BST)
:I've finished updating the templates. The only thing I'm not '''''positive''''' of, is that both the map ''and'' the sortable list can be displayed on the same page (might trigger the inclusion or size limit, after all), but that doesn't really worry me, because if that '''is''' the case, then I'd say keep the map on the [[Mobile Phone Mast]] page, and have a link to the sortable list on another page.
:Right now, only two locations have updated templates. If you take a look at [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox5]], you'll see the sortable list, only a bit messed up. In the rightmost column, all of the locations that do NOT have DangerReport pages are showing red links. All the ones that DO, but haven't been updated to use the new template format, are showing the BuildingInformation template. I'll work more on them tomorrow, but if you want to as well, there they are. Oh, by the way, when creating new DangerReport pages, before you save, do a preview, and click on the link to the DangerReport's location page. If it doesn't take you there, it's because I've either made a typo, or if you get a disambiguation page, it's because the specific link wasn't in the template properly when I started working on it. If either of those two things happens, don't save the page, but let me know about it, so I can fix my template, and make sure everything else is correct. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 08:27, 26 May 2008 (BST)
::Awesome work, I'll certainly work on some of those templates, I'll feel like I've taken a total backseat otherwise. And I'll certainly make sure I don't create any bad templates, I didn't just spend the better part of 2 days finding and fixing up all those darned reports only to add some useless ones myself.
::Two minor points then: <s>A) On your list, could you not dump the building link and the co-ords? All the danger reports will have those anyway. (I'll make sure of that!)</s> B) I think the original request was hoping for an obvious status on the danger reports, maybe a small image could be inserted under the status one (About half the height of the status ones) just so it's there but not taking up undue space.
::Oh, and once the sandbox is working fine, I'd like to recode [[User:MobilePhoneMastBot|the Bot]] before anything goes live.
::Again, my thanks! {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 13:31, 26 May 2008 (BST)
:::Duh, Maybe I should take a little more time to understand the template before making comments. Struck my own stupidity. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 13:50, 26 May 2008 (BST)
:::Not my day this, since the danger reports won't be present, prehaps a new column is needed with a link to each report, each link would be 'Update the ''suburb'' mast status' or whatever. People will need a quick reference. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 15:55, 26 May 2008 (BST)
::::Heh. Blame '''''me''''' for splitting our conversation into two streams. Ah-me! Anyway, I'm not sure about your "Duh," comment. Everything you said seems to be reasonable. I just want to make sure this really ''basic'' change works first (and as you know, we're already having a bit of a glitch). Actually, I want to build a new version of the [[Template:BuildingStatus]] that includes the mast status in the regular Danger Report at the top of the page. Then, build an Information Center (MBIC: Mast Building Information Center, or MTIC: Malton Telephone Information Center?). Certainly, it should be no problem to make a list that includes the ''building'' status as well (as long as it doesn't cause an inclusion overload). But now, I've got to try to worry out the reason not everything is showing up...
::::Another thing, on DangerReport standardization... I'm 100% in favor of their ''being'' standardized, however... The old, "People, blah blah, don't delete the user line", well... I have only seen about 1 deleted user line in months (and I update a lot of Danger Reports at NTs all over the place), so I don't really think that's an issue anymore. What I'm '''more''' likely to see is the x,y line being deleted (and still not '''that''' often). Basicly, I really don't think there needs to be an admonishment at all. HOWEVER, I really am in favor of the "DO NOT EDIT ABOVE/BELOW THIS LINE" bit, because (especially for new editors), it makes it really clear where you ARE supposed to make changes, and because it's cordoning off everything else, it makes the wikicode look a lot less confusing. But this is just my opinion. Also, on categorization... Certainly, everything should should be in [[:Category:Building Danger Levels]], but I don't really think that, for example, the DangerReport pages for NecroTech buildings need to be in [[:Category:Necrotech Buildings]]. Some are. Many aren't. It's the same for many other building types, like hospitals (a portion have their DangerReport pages in the category, but most don't). I don't think they should be there; it really just clutters the category's list of articles. It would be far better to make a new category, say [[:Category:NecroTech Building Danger Reports]], make it a subcategory of [[:Category:Necrotech Buildings]], and then on the DangerReport pages, use a ''sort key'', like this: <nowiki> [[:Category:NecroTech Building Danger Reports|{{subst:SUBPAGENAME}}]]. It might be a good idea to talk to [[User:Rosslessness|Rosslessness]] about the topic. He updates a lot of NT Danger Reports '''''and''''' does a lot of categorization.</nowiki>. Hmm. It looks like '''''I''''' need to learn how to communicate more concisely... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 20:22, 26 May 2008 (BST)
:::::Mostly, I just wanted a de facto line to put when I did the bot-assisted edit. The user line comment appeared, like, everywhere so it stayed, not having been here so long I didn't really know the score. And, personally, I think comments for 'Don't edit above/below the line' are horribly messy and make the template look ''more'' confusing. With the pipes fixed, the lines to edit are so nicly presented that I think only a drunkard would get it wrong. As another part of the edit, I categorised EVERYTHING. Everything got dumped in Building Danger Reports. Before the edit, a large proportion of buildings included their type in the category, but only a small proportion included their suburb, as such I standardised, everything got a type category and all the suburb categories were removed. I'll certainly talk to Ross about it, although I'd rather not run the bot again, it takes forever because it's an edit-assist bot and I have to double check each one of the 650-ish pages. Now closer to 750 with the new ones for the Masts (Which I've given up on for today). Then again, I don't want to appear like some sort of anal rententive standards dictator whose word goes. So on the provisio an accepted look can be come up with and I won't ever have to run the bot again apart from new pages that crop up, I'd be all for it. *Darts off to Rosslessness's talk page* {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:33, 26 May 2008 (BST)
::::::Heh. It's interesting how much we can all differ in our response to appearances (re:comment lines). Well, might as well leave it the way it's always (mostly) been. As for categories, I'm not really too big of a category freak. I wouldn't worry about it too much. They're bad for server load, too (so I hear). However, a question. Is there as specific reason that you've been including the new mast building Danger Reports on their location pages in a different way then standard? In almost every case that I've seen, they always go on the very '''top''' (above the location block. It's not that where you put them looks bad, or anything, just "different". And since you've put such a lot of effort into standardization, it seemed odd that you'd deviate from the standard page layout, in this case... As for our problem with statuses not coming through, I'm still working on that one. I'm really dreading the possibility of having to ''completely'' rework the entire template system. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 21:30, 26 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::I like it that way, above the location template and everything gets shifted down needlessly, below it and the two work together, both at put at the same height and the report centers itself based on whatever room it has left. It just looks better in my view. There's no reason to be consistant if it's a bad thing after all. But such decisions about appearance are arbitary (as you indeed mentioned), and I'm incredibly arbitary. So much so I would in fact make a poor arbitor. ("You're BOTH doing it wrong!" Here's how you ''should'' do it...") Anyway I rather hope you can solve the problem without a major rework, because that means I have to change all the templates all over again. (Though I'll probably bot it if that happens, probably take less time to code it up and run it anyway.) {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:45, 26 May 2008 (BST)
 
===Errant Span Tag===
::::::::So, check this out. I'm analyzing the code, trying to find the problem, and I notice that in the two rows I was comparing, the one that didn't work was missing the crucial space (<code>id="suburb"style="{{User...</code> vs. <code>id="suburb" style="{{User...</code>). Added it back in wherever it was missing (no idea how it got that way), and it fixed... '''Most''', but not '''''all''''' of the problems. Take a [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox5|look]]. I've tried to find some similar error in the code for the ''remaining'' suborn ones, but no luck thus far. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 22:30, 26 May 2008 (BST)
::::::::Check [[User:The Rooster/Sandbox|this]] out. The output on the page is from a working and a not working link. I enclosed each part in text so it clearly (I say clearly...) showed up where each call started and ended. It looks that same on face value, but when you delve into the page source code...
<code>
<p>WSTARTactive
</span>
WENDRSTARTactive
REND
</p>
</code>
 
Where'd that extra <code></span></code> come from? That must be what's breaking the template because it appears only in the broken call.
{{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 23:39, 26 May 2008 (BST)
::::::::Where is '''that'''? I've never seen "WENDRSTART" anywhere. Frankly, I haven't a clue... However, I'm at the stage where I think it might be best to rebuild everything from the ground up. ERNesbitt was using "div id" to assign all the status colors, and I think that there's probably a way simpler method, since we're calling the status codes from the DangerReport pages, now. At the moment, I'm rebuilding the map, using [[Template:DangerMap]] as a model (I'll include more then just the suburb names, though]]. But tell me more about what you found. Remember, I'm not a programer-type (just a semi-proficient end-user). --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 23:51, 26 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::::And I'm not a web-coder type. WENDRSTART is text that I entered because I'm mad, ignore it entirly. Here's a version where I've used 1's and 2's.
<code>
<p>1active
</span>
12active
2
</p>
</code>
Between the 2's is what happens when you call a working report that should display active. Between the 1's is what happens when you call a report that isn't working. (This is from the page's source code, btw) Basically, what I'm saying is that there's a <code></span></code> in the malfunctioning one that seems to be causing the problem, the wiki tries to handle it and thus it doesn't show on previews etc, but it fails miserably and the template doesn't return the proper style code for an active suburb. I'm just wondering where the closing span every came from, therein lies the source of the problem.
 
Sorry for the confusion there, it made sense in ''my'' head{{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 00:18, 27 May 2008 (BST)
::::::::::Um, maybe I'm being painfully dense, but I went over all the templates, and I can't find a "span" tag in use at all. What page are you talking about? Give me a link... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 00:46, 27 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::If you call this template --> <tt><nowiki> {{User:DangerReport/Yeatman Library|template=MalTelMastStatus}} </nowiki></tt> it returns <code><nowiki>active</span></nowiki></code> which is why the code breaks. The wiki tries to close a span where there isn't one and just gives up.
Where the span comes from, is a good question. It's not on the DangerReport in question as far as I can see, but if one could work out where it came from, one could fix the problem for this case at least. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 00:52, 27 May 2008 (BST)
:::::Ah-ha! Rooster, what you needed to tell me was that I needed to look at the ''html'' source code for the page, or the "html output", or something like that. I'm not a web coder ''either'' (and I've only recently started mucking about in wiki code). I was just about to write back once again, saying that you were making utterly no sense to me. But now that I've figured out what you mean... Yeah. No clue why it's doing that. As I said: from the ground up. It really shouldn't be all ''that'' hard. I'll get the map finished, first... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 01:11, 27 May 2008 (BST)
:::::: ''but when you delve into the page source code...'' or ''This is from the page's source code'' But since you're working from ground up, it doesn't matter. I'll stop badgering you now. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 01:15, 27 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::Heh. I just read that as ''This is from the page's wiki code''. Yes, yes, what you said was technically correct, but I wasn't parsing it. Anyway, since I have no clue what's causing it, or how to fix it, from the ground up it shall have to be! --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 01:27, 27 May 2008 (BST)
I figured out where the errant "span" tag is coming from! Do this: go to where I'm building the table from the ground up, in [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox 3]], click on the sort toggle in the "Suburb" column so that it's pointing up. All the locations that we have the special Danger Report set up will go to the top (except for Yagoton, at the very bottom). Next will come inclusions of the Danger Report BuildingStatus template from all the mast buildings that have DangerReport pages, but haven't been converted yet. After that are three locations that HAVE our special DangerReport pages, but are not showing up properly (The Halliday Building in Dunningwood, the Yeatman Library in Gibsonton, and the Amos Building in Huntley Heights), followed by all the locations without Danger Reports. What's different about those three locations? All three have the same signature in the Update column, and that signature doesn't appear at any other locations. Here it is:
{{pre|<nowiki>[[User:Pele_Rose|<span style="cursor:help;font-weight:bold"><span style="font-weight:bold; color:red">Pele</span><span style="font-weight:bold; color:pink"> Rose</span>]][[MalTel|<span style="cursor:help; font-size:70%; vertical-align:30%" title="MalTel Wiki">MalTel</span>]][[User talk:Pele_Rose|<span style="cursor:help; font-size:70%; vertical-align:30%" title="Talk">Talk</span>]]</nowiki>}}
Somewhere in there is what's causing the problem... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 04:33, 27 May 2008 (BST)
:And found! The problem is that the signature has three opening "span" tags, but only closes two of them. I edited the signature on one of the Danger Reports, adding a third <code></span></code> at the end of it, and checked back on Sandbox 3, and it made that location work. Now, to go talk to [[User:Pele Rose|Pele Rose]], and get him to fix it... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 04:41, 27 May 2008 (BST)
 
===Report Redesign===
::Okay, while we wait for Pele's replay... I've been working on the new table, and it was coming along well, but... First, take a look at [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox9]]. This is the new table format, but with just one row. First, you have the "District" column, as normal, Next, the "Suburb" column, normal as well (but without the multiple layers of templates). After then, the new "Status" column. This shows the mast building's Danger Level graphic (I'm going to make a new set of scaled-down images with transparent corners, because...) with the suburb's danger level in the background. Next, in the "Building" column, the name of the mast building links to its DangerReport page. In the "Coordinates" column, the link is to the building location's page itself. And then, of course, the "Last Update column", as usual. So where's the "but" in all this? Well, because of using the template-as-variable trick, it's impossible (as far as I know how) to set any specific variables for the template you're ''using'' to make the call with, so the "District" and "Suburb" information needs to go into the DangerReport page as well. If you take a look at that one report I've switched over so far, the line with the additional information looks like this:
<pre>
|building=Olivey Library|xy=(45,44)|district=NW5|suburb=Barrville
</pre>
So, it's part of the permanent-variables line. So, if you make any new Danger Report for mast buildings, go ahead and add that info into the template. Oh, and the added benefit to all this? Reduction of the number of transclusion, and the size of the transcluded information. Before, I was making two separate calls to to each Danger Report, to get the mast status, and the user sig. Now, I'm making one call to get all the info, and one more to get the suburb danger level (and that transclusion only has a single, short line of text). So the whole system's a bit simpler, now. Hmm. I need to figure out how the Mall Status Map works... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 16:27, 27 May 2008 (BST)
:::Screw manual updates, I'll code up something to do this for me before I die of sheer tedium from changing everything back and forth. Anyway, do we actually need the suburb danger level on the map? I think the current mast-only style system works well as is, and the mast status has only the most limited of links to the danger level and doesn't tie in as well as the NT of EMRP ones do. NT's and EMRP's matter a lot more than a mast being active or not, and once again from a personal point of view, I think the extra colours would just be confusing. Originally I thought that the suburb Barrville was moderate danger, but the mast was active in a ransacked building! but no, the colours are the other way round! The confusion! As far as setting the district and suburb, can't you just set them manually on the line and then call the template for the stuff that actually changes? It's seems unessesary, that's all. If it's a true technical limitation, ignore my ignorance, but I swear that's what the current system does anyway in some form or another. Finally, those pictures are too small to really be of use, I'd say some text would do the job better. I'm a picky chap but better now than before you have to change 100 lines of code as opposed to one. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:48, 27 May 2008 (BST)
::::Hmm. Since each report's going to get a different suburb, won't the coding be at least as tedious as doing it manually? And I didn't say that '''''you''''' needed to do it! :::Grins::: As for the suburb danger level being on the map, I was only planning on having it on the list (unless that's what you meant). Since you had said you wanted to see the building's status on the table as well (at least, I ''thought'' you said that, somewhere in our very long, two-part conversation), it seemed like it was an unobtrusive place to put it. If you think it's better without, I won't argue the point (actually, I think I agree with you). Actually, I was going to ask if we should switch the positions of the mast-status and danger-level colors, but that would be even more confusing. Okay, Suburb Danger Level will be dropped. Building Status pictures will be swapped out for text (since it's lowercase, maybe I'll tack it on to the end of the building's name, in the same column, like: "Olivey Library is ransacked"). Re:setting the district and suburb: why don't you put a hold on changing (or making any new) danger report pages, while I do some more testing. I '''might''' be able to replicate what EBNesbit did, but since I've never seen it done before, I can't be sure. Of course, now that we've tracked down that problem (with Pele Rose's signature), we '''could''' go back to modifying the original system, but done that way, I'd probably '''have''' to make two separate template calls (and things start to get increasingly unwieldy). Also, I just realized that when you sort the list by "Last Update", it's actually not sorting them by date (it's by SIGNATURE, then date). I think I can solve that one, by adding another permanent variable (a magic word that gives an ISO timestamp), putting that in an additional column, but making it unseen (so that it ''looks'' like you're sorting by the "Last Update" column, but you're actually sorting by the invisible "Timestamp" column. Now, if I can figure out those ID classes... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 18:33, 27 May 2008 (BST)
:::::Yes, I guess it would be tedious, and since it is working I guess it would be stupid to change that in the name of a simpler danger report (We're using a different method on these reports anyway, what could a few extra varibles on a single line hurt) Now, Suburb danger level on the list, it is still horribly confusing. (Indeed, whatever way you swap the colours to be) I still think it's unrequired. It's removal will also rid us of any confusing colour schemes. So I'm in agreement that it should go. I won't make any more Danger Reports until the system ready and we can be sure it won't have to be again. I also wouldn't worry too much about the updates thing, I don't think anybody actually ever sorts that list anyway and the bot grabs all the out of date stuff these days, but if you can fix it, all the better. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:04, 27 May 2008 (BST)
::::::So, I've changed the layout. Take a look at the [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox9|new one]] and tell me what you think. Also, I spent several hours attempting to find a way to pass the specify "district" and "suburb" when making the call for info from the Danger Report, and I don't think it can be done. With the previous system, the two variables were being defined at the top level, which just got swapped out for other bits of code by the various templates. '''Here''', three of our variables are being defined on another page, and unless that page is set to  pass other variables down from a higher level (like, if the DangerReport page had <code>district={{{district}}}</code> on it), there's no way to get it where you want it to go (i.e., the template with the formatting and the spots for all the variables to sit in). While there are other ways the final product '''''could''''' be achieved, I think the one that used the least number of transclusions and the least amount of replicated wiki code is probably the best. However, since the part of the code the will be under the most scrutiny by the public eye will be that which is '''on''' the DangerReport pages, rather then put the variable definitions for the district and suburb ''there'', I could simply put a generic variable pass-through there instead (and make them really short). Basically, something like:
<pre>
{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}|d={{{d}}}|s={{{s}}}
|building=Olivey Library|xy=(45,44)
</pre>
That way, the extra code's on a line that's already altered from the norm. I'm 99.98% sure that will do the trick, but it will have to wait until tomorrow (at least), along with tinkering with a time stamp. Anyway, take a look at Sandbox 9 and tell me if it meets approval. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 01:38, 28 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::No need to change it, it's working, it's fine, and there's no real advantage to be gained. When I run the bot, I can chuck the odd code on the top line anyway, it'll still read district and suburb. Besides, nice naming of varibles will hopefully make it easier for future maintenance. My final request is one I mentioned earlier but it probably got buried. Is it possible to have a small picture or line of text showing the mast status on the modified Danger Reports? Text would be fine but in order to spice it up you might need more templates which is obviously something you're trying to avoid, so a quick reference to an image would probably have the least impact. I defer to your judgement on this one. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 12:08, 28 May 2008 (BST)
::::::::Okay. "suburb" and "district" the variables shall thus be named. On the subject of the time code, I really am going to give that a go, because it would be useful in other contexts, too, and the ability to quickly sort the list to see what's the oldest would make it far easier to go through and update (like finding the 10-day point, and updating everything after that point to "unknown", or finding the 5-day point, and switching the appropriate locations to "''status''old". So, I might as well learn how to do it here, where what we're mucking about isn't really being '''''used''''' (especially since we're having to ''create'' most of the required DangerReport pages from scratch). But, I'll start working on the new Danger Report template, first. That doesn't really require any '''more''' templates (as far as how many are used at once), and doesn't impact the list or map. I was thinking just using the MalTel tower image, with the status color in the background, and interpret the status code something better formatted (capitalization, "Active (old)" instead of "activeold", etc. Let me know if you have anything specific in mind, though. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 17:41, 28 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::::The bot can perform updates for old and unknown statuses, that's what it currently does anyway, shouldn't be impossible to modify it accordingly. As far as displaying the status went, I was thinking the Mast tower on the left. Then text next to it 'Mast Status: Active' With the actual varible in all caps and the revelant colour (EG: Active in bright green,  No Fuel in yellow etc) where applicable old would be brackted just like you've done it (Maybe a capital 'O') and the whole colour of that bit of text would be a more washed out version (Pale green, plae yellow etc etc) all on a white background, this was partially to match the style some pages used anyway, but it's not vital, whatever works. I'll try knocking up a quick example image. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 18:03, 28 May 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::No example, yet? Anyway, I've given up on the timestamp issue, for now. Short of making people substitute a new magic word every time they update, I haven't figured out a way to make it work. Anyway, I solved another small problem, and since you're the DangerReport bot-person, you should go take a look at [[Template talk:BuildingStatusDisambig]]. Essentially, it's a modified BuildingStatus template, and an additional parameter value added to DangerReport pages for locations that have been disambiguated by appending their suburb names. Since Danger Reports nearly always appear on pages that are already specifying the suburb, it's redundant (and ugly), but in the case of the new mast building table, it would have been particularly so. Anyway, since you've not got an example for me yet, I'll work on finishing up the pass-through code to add to the DR pages, so we can get back to those. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 21:06, 29 May 2008 (BST)
::::::::::::Okay, that was quick work, for once. Here's the format for the first four lines:
<pre>
{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}
|building=Olivey Library|xy=(45,44)
|district={{{district}}}|suburb={{{suburb}}}
|mast_status=destroyed
</pre>
::::::::::::In the case of ambiguously named location, the format is:
<pre>
{{{{{template|BuildingStatusDisambig}}}
|disambig=The Buttle Building|building=The Buttle Building (Dakerstown)|xy=(4,5)
|district={{{district}}}|suburb={{{suburb}}}
|mast_status=unknown
</pre>
::::::::::::I decided to put the two new parameter values on a separate line, because the code looked less messy that way. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 21:37, 29 May 2008 (BST)
 
I'll feed that into the danger report bot. I might put the suburb and district above the building an XY, to futhur disassociate them with the new and editable mast status, but I'll be using comments like the ones you use to boot anyway. By the way, I knocked up a test image [http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/TThomaso/MastStatuses.png here] (incomplete of course). I used the coloured background you suggested, it needed it. If you think it needs changing to be more in line with the current status image (rounded corners and the like) just say so, alternatively just make some better versions yourself. Once some images are ready, the report template code can be changed to display the correct image names. I can then code the new MPM bot and danger report bot and feel like I'm actually doing something more than badgering you. Woo. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 23:22, 29 May 2008 (BST)
 
:Hmm... I'll have to talk to Hagnat and see what he thinks (since he's the one who created the mall status graphics). Also, I queried Kerak on the Ackland Mall issue. I'm certain that our parameter values won't affect any of the existing usage, but I'd rather get it vetted. Also, stop by [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox9|Sandbox 9]] again, to see the present state. I've broken the page up into separate tables, for the moment, so that the missing/unmodified pages won't upset the formatting of all the rest. Tell me if you have any issues with the current manifestation of the formating. Mostly, all that remains now is making the rest of the pages, but at the moment, I'm going to give it a rest, because my brain is becoming wiki-fried... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 01:53, 30 May 2008 (BST)
 
::My only quibble is that Eastonwood gets a bit stretched because the building is in zombie hands, and this takes up two lines. More room for status methinks, you could easily reduce the co-ords room if you need to keep the overwall width no larger than it is. Also, if Hagnat doesn't take to it, we could always just create a new template solely for displayed the status of a decent size and chuck it on the page. TBH I think that would actually be better (It could be bigger, shiner and with a nice link to the MPM page etc etc). Try manuipulating a few images and chucking the image underneath the current graphics, it doesn't go all that well really. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 01:59, 30 May 2008 (BST)
:::You must be using a bigger font-size them I am. Check Sandbox 9 again. I've made two demos of a trial alteration. It works on my browser even if I increase the font-size a step. How does it look on yours? --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 02:38, 30 May 2008 (BST)
::::Hmmm, medium size says my browser, oh well. Your alterations work fine, with maybe room for 2-3px to be shaved off if you really wanted. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 02:42, 30 May 2008 (BST)
 
==Useless Danger Reports==
 
If you don't know the status, don't make danger reports to bolster your edit count! [[User:Ioncannon11|Ioncannon11]] 15:02, 26 May 2008 (BST)
:They're part of an update to include the status of phone masts, although it does appear that I am creating useless reports, I assure you that they will be used once they're all in place. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 15:07, 26 May 2008 (BST)
::Let someone who is inside those buildings make them or it looks like spam. Thanks for fixing my templates, though ;). [[User:Ioncannon11|Ioncannon11]] 15:17, 26 May 2008 (BST)
:::I'll live with it, my edit count can't be taken as accurate anyway, I've run a few bot-assisted edits through this account. If you take a gander at my contributions you'll notice I've edited almost every single danger report. Indeed over 600 edits within a few hours. My edit count = worthless. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 15:21, 26 May 2008 (BST)
 
== Danger report standards. ==
 
I have to say I lean towards morgan. 90% of errors made on danger reports are to do with the }} after user=.
 
Keeping that as far away from what people have to edit is always preferable.
 
The other errors people make are as so.
 
Under status, adding a fullstop, capital letters on/not on all words. can't do a lot about that unless you add new templates but hey. there both v. good templates to follow as a guide.
 
As for categories. id add the suburb the building is in and also a category if its a TRP, fire stations included.
 
The problem i have with danger reports (especially on towers, clubs and banks) is few people bother updating them because you have to click through a lot of pages to get a good picture (even in suburbs with building information screens). All trp's may be held but it can still be a wasteland.
 
Now ideally, if the danger reports for a suburb could be shrunk and automatically placed on one page, like [[Mall Status Map]]. That would be much better. But hey, one project at a time. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 12:45, 27 May 2008 (BST)
 
: [[Tactical Resource Point]]s and Fire departments are the most commonly reported areas, as are mobile phone masts. I just feel that a category on say banks is extra work for little real gain.
--{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 16:00, 27 May 2008 (BST)
 
== New Danger Report [[Template:BuildingStatusMalTel|template]], and the [[Mobile-Phone Mast Information Center|MPM-IC]]! ==
 
Er, so I've gone ahead and made the new images, and the template. You can check them out at the [[MPM-IC]]. I think it would be best to leave the DangerReport pages themselves to use the standard BuildingStatus template, and simply specify the alternate template to be used where it is desired. On ''that'' note, all of the location pages for the mast buildings will need to have the "<code><nowiki>{{User:DangerReport/ThisLocation}}</nowiki></code>" call changed to "<code><nowiki>{{User:DangerReport/ThisLocation|template=BuildingStatusMalTel}}</nowiki></code>". All except Ackland Mall, of course. It's already using a custom call to a special layer, prior to calling the new template. However, it wouldn't be suitable for replacement on the Ackland Mall page, so I made a custom "mast mini-report" template, for use on that page. I've added it to the [[Ackland Mall|page]]—hopefully nobody objects. Hmm, I think that's it for now... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 19:45, 1 June 2008 (BST)
:Awesome template. Seriously. I redirected [[MPM-IC]] as needed. It may be worth redirecting [[Mobile Phone Mast Information Center]] and [[MPMIC]] too. As far as the renaming goes, I can run the MPM bot and have it overwrite everything first go even if no statuses changed. I'll work on the code today, I decided that I'd recover all the pages and then update, relised this was idiotic as edit conflicts could easily occur and so I'm reorganising it to recover, check and update each page one by one (More akin to the new SIM bot) to reduce this risk. Need to do less late night programming, can't think properly. Anyway, thanks again for all the hard work! {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 13:26, 2 June 2008 (BST)
:Thinking about it, [[Mobile-Phone Mast Information Center]] should be [[A/SD]]'ed and all the content moved to [[Mobile Phone Mast Information Center]] with [[MPM-IC]] and [[MPMIC]] redirecting to that. The hypen is out of place given the fact that the exsisting page, [[Mobile Phone Mast]], does not have one. Would you agree with that plan of action? In other news, the bot is almost done, woo. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 15:55, 2 June 2008 (BST)
In response to your first post: I created redirects for [[Mpm-ic]] and [[Mpmic]] (it always auto-caps the pages). Apparently it will find "MPMIC" if you type "mpmic" in the search field (but not as a link), but won't find "MPM-IC" from "mpm-ic". As for the hyphen, I was just matching the in-game syntax, but if you think the page should be redirected to a hyphenates one, go ahead and do it. Those are the kinds of issues that really don't matter to me. But it can't be speedy-deleted, because somebody's already made an edit. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 16:03, 2 June 2008 (BST)
:It could be SD'ed for dupe content after it was moved. It could always just be moved normally of course! That would be easier. I'm not pedantic enough to move it, redirects will do just fine. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:16, 2 June 2008 (BST)
:Your images are pretty damn good, but can you actually see the text for the no fuel old and destroyed old versions? The bright yellow barely stands out, and the orange is better but not great. Might be worth a small revision. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 18:34, 2 June 2008 (BST)
::Hmm... What's the condition of your comp's display? I was about to agree with you, in the case of nofuelold, but then I realized that I had the LCD on my laptop turned town to it's very lowest level (I'd been listening to podcasts, and didn't have it plugged in, so I'd turned the screen down to save on the battery). Once I turned it back up to normal brightness, I had no problem reading it. Not that the image has the most readable level of contrast ever, though. If there are any other complaints, I suppose I could darken the background grey from the standard for inactive backgrounds, but considering that it is an "old" image, the fact that the former status isn't the most legible ever doesn't seem to be a major issue, to me... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 00:40, 3 June 2008 (BST)
:::My monitor is heavy on the brightness and the contrast, my suggestion would've been to just tone down the text's brightness slightly so it stood out more against the background. That said, nofuelold is indeed quiet a rare status to hold, and it's no major worry. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 13:32, 3 June 2008 (BST)
::::Hmm. Is it a CRT? Stuff probably look totally different on one of those. Anyway, let me know if anyone else mentions it, and then the easier fix will be to darken the background a bit. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 15:29, 3 June 2008 (BST)
 
== SIM update discussion ==
 
Have any comments / ideas relating to [[User_talk:Swiers#SIM_map_image_dates|this]]?  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 21:40, 5 June 2008 (BST)
 
== Omnimap ==
 
Thanks very much, nice to be appreciated. All the clever stuff for the map was <s>stolen</s> borrowed from Sweirs and Karek, I just fiddled about with their code. I am planning to move it to mainspace, but I haven't been able to do one last thing - I'd like each suburb gif to act as a link to the appropriate suburb page, and I can't do it. The best I've been able to do is to get the name to come up as a tooltip. Any ideas? (More on the problem [[User_talk:Garum/Scentmap|here]]).
 
Part of the reason for the new map was to drum up support for the scentmap, because at the moment poor old Sweirs is doing most of it himself, and more mappers would be very useful.
 
cheers, [[User:Garum|Garum]] 12:14, 13 June 2008 (BST)
 
:I've now moved it to [[Omnimap]] and put category tags on. I still haven't got the suburbs linked. [[User:Garum|Garum]] 15:15, 13 June 2008 (BST)
 
::I did take the SIMgrid suburb names and scaled it for my map, and it worked fine, but I thought in the end it obscured too much of the scent data. That's why I changed the suburb borders and un-bolded the mall names, so more scent data would be visible.
 
:: You're right, what I'd ideally like is that there would be no labels (the tooltip is fine) but that the suburbs link to their articles. Clicking on them at the moment takes you to the burb-border gifs. It might be possible to put a layer of transparent images over the scent data and burbs, but under the mall names, but I don't know how to make an image link to anything other than the image page. The page is also pretty large and calls an awful lot of templates. I'm concerned that I'll hit inclusion limits or something (I did in the first version, using the <nowiki>{{c|colour|text}}</nowiki>). Any ideas? [[User:Garum|Garum]] 16:35, 13 June 2008 (BST)
 
:::Oh well, thanks for trying. I've put a sidebar of suburb names on the page, which isn't ideal but at least makes a link to each burb available on the page. [[User:Garum|Garum]] 10:18, 14 June 2008 (BST)
 
== New Map ==
 
So, after pulling all the map data last Thursday, isolating the NTs, and converting the spreadsheet data into 100 CSV snippets, I was over-wikified, and let the whole thing rest until now. Today, I converted the CSVs into wiki-table code, changed the formatting (actually, a pipe+space combo ''does'' take more data space then a single carriage return, but it amounts to less then 10 kilobytes, so unless the margin is ''that'' tight...), assembled the complete table, added all the roll-over code, etc... Still a mock-up (no live-links to NT statuses), but take a look [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox3|here]], and tell me what you think at this point. Also, a gridded version is [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox4|here]], although I don't really like how it looks. I'm trying to find a table class that will let me make all the grid-lines the same color, but no luck so far. --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 22:25, 18 June 2008 (BST)
 
:Tis nice, I've got a working NT mock up at [[User:The Rooster/Sandbox2]] although when I informed [[User:Swiers|Swiers]] he found it to be less than perfect in his browser, and I haven't been able to fix the problem with the suburb danger report table that refuses to be the size I told it to be, works for me but not him apparently. So nothing's been implemented. Your table version is probably the better bet unless I can work out what's going on. Anyway, the live links work for the most part, I had a bot run all the templates to include the code to allow your to define the template you want to use. The template I use is stored in [[User:The Rooster/Sandbox]]. However, a problem I have noticed is that the user line doesn't get parsed so you still get stuff like <nowiki>[[User:Dude|Dude]]</nowiki> in the tooltip. An error I can live with at any rate, but attempts to include a user line that utilises a templated signature causes the entire thing to collaspe in on itself. It preserves the styling and only the tooltip is lost (which is better than crashing at any rate) but I can't think of any way to fix the problem other than changing the report to have 3 and 5 tilde signatures so the user name and timestamp are seperate and that's not a good option. Oh, how did you get those gridlines, they're pretty neat even if you can't change the colour.
 
:Your table doesn't appear in correct proportions to me. From the code I see that you're uisng 6x6 on each cell (from what I can tell, you've defined a diagonal line of cells like this so the others naturally follow suit) but it doesn't seem to work out. The top line of cells in a suburb looks 6x6, but all the others look more like 6x5. There's definatly a size difference at any rate. Maybe defining the suburb dimensions as well might help? I don't know. I'll screen it if you need my monitors POV. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:55, 18 June 2008 (BST)
 
::I used "<code>border="1"</code>" to give the tables borders for each cell (seems to work independently of "<code>style="border:2px, etc."</code>"), and then used the "border-collapse" attribute and zero cellspacing to keep them from expanding the size of the table.
::I share your frustrations with tables not being the size you tell them to be. There's something wonky in the wikicode, that doesn't handle things correctly. For example, if you make a 10x10 grid, and tell each row and each column to be 10%, and even adjust the size of the total table to account for the dimensions of borders and such, will all the cells be the exact same size? No, they most certainly will ''not'' be. In my browser, setting the size of the cells themselves in pixel dimension made it all measure out correctly, but if it's not on your end... Take a screenshot of it, and email it to me (morgan_blair@mac.com), if you will... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 23:30, 18 June 2008 (BST)
:::If you want to see what it looks like with the grid-lines all one color, look [[User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox5|here]], but it's a bit hard on the eyes... You can experiment with different grid colors by calling the page and specifying a color, like "<code><nowiki>{{User:Morgan Blair/Sandbox5|gray}}</nowiki></code>", but nothing really looks any better. Having the gridlines in the suburb's danger-level border color seems to work the best, although I prefer the non-grid version, overall.
:::Anyway, I'll be taking a break on the project, for today... --[[User:Morgan Blair|Morgan Blair]] 00:33, 19 June 2008 (BST)
I won't bother with an e-mail, my initial thoughts were correct. Adding an overall table width and height causes the boxes to appear correctly.
<pre>
{|cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="{{User:DangerReport/Dakerstown}}; width:75px; height:75px"
|-
|
{|title="Dakerstown" border="1px" cellpadding="0" style="border:hidden {{{1|black}}}; border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing:0px; background-color:transparent; width:71px; height:71px"
</pre>
I found the above code to correct the display for Dakerstown (On the gridded version), and two quick find & replace's should allow that code to be added. I'm thinking maybe the cell borders threw off either the wiki, or html, or my browser in some fashion since they get applied outside the thing they are applied to. If the above code doesn't somehow muck up your view, then all is good. Different numbers might be needed for the gridless one, I haven't checked. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 18:56, 19 June 2008 (BST)
 
== Note. ==
 
No. Its alright. Its a now abandoned attempt to see if i can transfer danger reports into a map size diagram for the suburb. Thanks though. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:21, 19 June 2008 (BST)
 
== StatusMap Legend ==
 
Well, I personally think the tall one looks better. At least the previous version of the NT Status Map (which has been deleted by now) used it. I prefer keeping the format the same so it won't confuse people who used to read/edit the article. Your change to the updating system is a big one, and I think we should keep some similaities between the old and new version. That's why I put the link to [[Necrotech Information Center]] back in the templates, to keep the links at the same place so people who get used to it can check it out.
 
I understand why you think seperating the table is a good idea. Still, the result doesn't look very pretty if you put two separate tables side by side. Both tables were squeezed together and their proportions were distorted. At least that's what happened on my wide-screen laptop monitor, and it should be worse on desktop ones. The tall table wasn't that tall until more detailed descriptions were put into the '''Building Danger Level Colors''' section.
 
I've increased the table width to reduce the height. What do you think? Better? Worse? -- [[User:Kittithaj|Kittithaj]] 22:04, 27 June 2008 (BST)
:The separation line is fine by me. I also increase the box width to match that of the map as you like. Ironically, I also found the way to split two tables and arrange it neatly (by removing all "width=220px" line and letting the browser draws the table by itself) by the time you were done with your version. It probably looks worse on smaller screen, though, with all the columns squeezed together. -- [[User:Kittithaj|Kittithaj]] 23:30, 27 June 2008 (BST)
{| cellspacing="5px" cellpadding= "0px"
|-
| valign=top |
{| style="background:#EEEEFF; height:300px; border: solid 2px #BBBBEE; padding: 5px; -moz-border-radius:18px"
| style="text-align:center" colspan=4 | '''Suburb Danger Level Colors'''
|-
| width=40px |
{| style="background:#EEEEFF" align=left
| style="{{MapSafe}};width:40px;height:40px; -moz-border-radius:10px" |
|}
| '''Safe'''
 
<small>Break-ins rare, no zombie groups.</small>
| width=40px |
{| style="background:#EEEEFF" align=left
| style="{{MapDanger}};width:40px;height:40px; -moz-border-radius:10px" |
|}
|}
| '''Dangerous'''
<small>Zombies inside many resource buildings; OR hostile mobs of 50+</small>
|-
| width=40px |
{| style="background:#EEEEFF" align=left
| style="{{MapModerate}};width:40px;height:40px; -moz-border-radius:10px" |
|}
| '''Moderate'''
<small>Active zombies and break-ins, but no 50+ hostile hordes</small>
| width=40px |
{| style="background:#EEEEFF" align=left
| style="{{MapVeryDanger}};width:40px;height:40px; -moz-border-radius:10px" |
|}
| '''Very Dangerous'''
<small>Most buildings wide open or zombie-infested; OR hostile zombie mobs of 150+</small>
|-
| width=40px |
{| style="background:#EEEEFF" align=left
| style="{{MapGhostTown}};width:40px;height:40px; -moz-border-radius:10px" |
|}
| colspan=3  |  '''Ghost Town'''
<small>At least 2/3rds of the suburb's buildings either Empty of Survivors or Ransacked/Ruined AND having no zombie mobs of over 10 and no total zombies over 60</small>
|}
|
{| style="background:#EEEEFF; height:300px; border: solid 2px #BBBBEE; padding: 3px; -moz-border-radius:18px"
| style="text-align:center" colspan=4 | '''Building Danger Level Colors'''
|-
| width=40px |
{| {{StatusMap Formatter|building=This building|status=safe}} align=center |
|}
| '''Safe'''
<small>Less than 15 zombies outside.</small>
| width=40px |
{| {{StatusMap Formatter|building=This building|status=in zombie hands}} align=center |
|}
| '''In Zombie Hands'''
<small>More zombies than survivors inside or all blocks ruined or ransacked.</small>
|-
| width=40px |
{| {{StatusMap Formatter|building=This building|status=under attack}} align=center |
|}
| '''Under Attack'''
<small>15-50 zombies outside.</small>
| width=40px |
{| {{StatusMap Formatter|building=This building|status=rebuilding}} align=center |
|}
| '''Rebuilding'''
<small>Survivors recently recaptured the building.</small>
|-
| width=40px |
{| {{StatusMap Formatter|building=This building|status=under siege}} align=center |
|}
| '''Under Siege'''
<small>More than 50 zombies outside.</small>
| width=40px |
{| {{StatusMap Formatter|building=This building|status=rot revive}} align=center |
|}
| '''Rot Revive (NT's Only)'''
<small>NecroTech buildings that revive zombies with Brain Rot.</small>
|-
| width=40px |
{| {{StatusMap Formatter|building=This building|status=ransacked}} align=center |
|}
| '''Ransacked'''
<small>Less than 10 zombies inside, and any blocks ruined or ransacked.</small>
| width=40px |
{| {{StatusMap Formatter|building=This building|status=unknown}} align=center |
|}
| '''Unknown'''
<small>The building's status is unknown.</small>
|}
|-
|}
I also see your tables stretching problem in my laptop monitor. The reason why I prefer letting web browser taking care of things to using fixed width is the difference in people's monitor sizes. When I resized my monitor to 1024x768, the fixed-width, split tables stretched up the page, while the tall one we are currently using fitted in well. So, I think it's better to leave it at that. -- [[User:Kittithaj|Kittithaj]] 17:27, 29 June 2008 (BST)
== NT Status Map NT-Metatac-Transparent.png ==
Hi Rooster. Would it be possible to edit the [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Image:NT-Metatac-Transparent.png background image] to the NT Status Map so that it's lighter, maybe #efefef? I use the map a lot and the new version's grid is cool but just a bit dyslexic for me. If we could fade it back a bit it might read easier on the eye. --[[User:Zeug|Zeug]] 05:43, 28 June 2008 (BST)
:I had a similar problem as I originally didn't have any opacity, the lines do tend to burn eyes out. Can I just confirm you are seeing transparent lines rather than solid black ones. The lines are already toned down to 25% opacity (#BFBFBF on a white background). If that is what you're seeing and it's still cuasing problems then it could go down a few more notches. Maybe not the equivalent of #EFEFEF as that's 6% opacity and that's a touch low. Prehaps 15% (which shows #D9D9D9 when on a white background) If however you are seeing solid black lines then you probably need to update your browser. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 10:49, 28 June 2008 (BST)
::No solid black lines, and #EFEFEF might be nicely visible but any which way you like really. As it is the grid does distract from reading the burb names and is kind of heavy graphically speaking.--[[User:Zeug|Zeug]] 20:10, 28 June 2008 (BST)
:::Revised to 10% opacity. A bit light for my tastes, but preferable than having some people lose their eyesight. Is this passable? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:22, 28 June 2008 (BST)
::::Looks lovely to these undead eyes! Cheers. --[[User:Zeug|Zeug]] 06:42, 30 June 2008 (BST)
== http://sim.urbandead.info ==
The above site has finally gone "live".  There's a few tweaks I still need to make, but it is fully functional in terms of accepting / displaying submissions. 
This leaves the question, what to do with the wiki versions?  My inclination is to either get rid of them (I already moved the images over to the website) and offer links to the website, or to figure out some way to pull images from the website to use on the wiki.  The website will handle all the tasks your bot currently does (IE, expiring images) as chronjobs, but maybe you could get the bot to grab http:///sim.urbandead.info/images/SIM_core_image.png and stick in on the wiki as updates to a specific image?  It would be very easy to re-build the current wiki maps around that image; its just a 100x100 px image that has all the scent colors in the proper places to serve as a scent map of Malton.  (In fact, the initial image on the site was created by taking  a screenshot of SIM and doing a bit of image editing to create that.)  All I'd have to do is scale it up for display purposes.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 19:08, 29 June 2008 (BST)
:Now that is pretty awesome. Kinda wish my characters weren't so newbie-ish and could actually submit some updates. Ah well.
:As far as updating the wiki goes, it does sound pretty simple to update the current map system. The various maps using the system can suffer for a few days anyway. If you can scale the image up to something large (Say 990px x 990px) I should be able to do a bit of research on how to nick the image off the server in some fashion. The wiki can deal with resizing downwards as needed. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:44, 29 June 2008 (BST)
== EMRP ==
i've already got a script that parses out the info in the format that i've used in EM archives. i don't really care about the toopic anymore, but i've made that page with IW links because people tend to panic "ohmygod, we lost reports" and i kind of might have them. feel free to put them up on processing for your bot or whatever else you think is usefull --[[User:Duke Garland|<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>]] [[LCD|<nowiki>[</nowiki>]][[User talk:Duke Garland|talk]][[Signature Race|<nowiki>]</nowiki>]] 12:29, 5 July 2008 (BST)
== Thanks ==
I was fooling around with something to do a similar job in a scripting language. So, What's the scope of this bot? Does it add Reports to The [[External Military]] page? (The one I don't always have time to process the reports for) Or just Swiers Map?<br> {{User:Dr Cory Bjornson/Sig}} 19:40, 5 July 2008 (BST)
::To clarify the above, I mean parse the reports, into a wiki friendly format. I mean, Does the bot add reports to the actual [[External Military]] page? We used to add some reports there. And [[User:Swiers|Swier]]'s [[EMRM]]/[[EMRP]]? An idea I've been toying with, Is having a body or zombie in some forgotten Ghost town suburb, with a radio, and a cron job, Some script, PHP, And one of your bots (Or something like that) Pulling the reports, And sticking the on the wiki.) {{User:Dr Cory Bjornson/Sig}} 20:12, 8 July 2008 (BST)
== Safe House -  [[Dark]] issue ==
Edit collision so I will rephrase and post here...
A similar report '''Wrong Attack Percentages''' below. The information is not visible enough, I did a search before posting the report, and it seems I'm not alone finding it confusing (and a very bad idea in general), top attack of zeds will be 25%, zeds only have hand to hand skills but will lose to a living human with a shotgun in the [[Dark]], somehow it doesn't seem fair or even realistic... Are there any actions were I can add my support, asking for the alteration of this [[Dark]] effect?  --[[User:Panic2k8|Panic2k8]] 17:19, 8 July 2008 (BST)
:The effect of dark is intended, so it's not a bug that the percentages are halved. The similar report below just hasn't been moved yet. Tangling grasp improves the percentages if you use that during your attack. If you're after changes to the dark effect, your best bet is to go to [[Talk:Suggestions]] and detail the changes you want to make. The suggestions process is complicated and full of red tape but a handful of good suggestions have been implemented. You can suggest something simple like more informative text in dark buildings or maybe something more significant like changes to how the effect works. Alternatively, just avoid buildings that suffer from the dark effect. Only a few building types are affected and they're all unimportant to survivors, all the important ones (Malls, NTs, PDs, Hospitals etc) will still contain survivors and your attack won't be affected. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:28, 8 July 2008 (BST)
== Promotion ==
I've nominated you for promotion to sysop. :P Just coz I'm nice like that. If you want to accept the nomination, head for the [[UDWiki:Administration/Promotions#User:The_Rooster|Promotions page]] and say so. If you don't want to accept it, then head for the promotions page and say that as well. :P Enjoy. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 20:19, 9 July 2008 (BST)
:I must say I would've enjoyed some notice before nomination. I was thinking I might apply some time in the future, but what the heck, nought to lose! {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:02, 10 July 2008 (BST)
== Um. maybe I'm dumb. but what's a Bot? ==
Eactly what the headline says, what's a bot? {{unsigned|Firetwig|19:16, 10 July 2008 (BST)}}
:It's an automated program that performs actions specified by its coding. They edit pages on the wiki. Basically I create them to do certain things that I can't be bothered to do myself because they're repetitive. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:02, 10 July 2008 (BST)
== Thoughts? ==
on this draft? [[The Great Suburb Group Massacre]] --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:47, 11 July 2008 (BST)
== Suburb/History ==
Hi, I was wondering if it would be possible for you to write a bot to do the [[Suburb/History]] task, for the sake of consistency in the records.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 06:12, 14 July 2008 (BST)
== [[Special:Disambiguations]] ==
Your bot did some great work on the disambiguated locations blocks.  That was taking forever by hand/was too boring to do very often.  What other sort of pages in that list can be done by bots, and which ones will need to be done manually? (i.e. What can I do to help that can't be done by a bot?) --[[User:Pdeq|<span style="color: green">Pdeq</span>]]<sup><span style="color: blue">[[User_talk:Pdeq|Talk]][[Signature Race|*]]</span></sup> 00:17, 15 July 2008 (BST)
:Most everything. The bot can only work if it 'knows' where the link should actually point by extracting the suburb it needs from something on the page. That limits it to locations blocks, some EMR records, maybe a few suburb pages where building links crop up in the news on occasion. Though I've not planned it to tackle anything beyond the location blocks for now, and it hasn't finished those yet, I've not run it in a while. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:34, 15 July 2008 (BST)
== [irc://irc.nexuswar.com/UDwiki IRC] ==
You should join us (Me, Revenant, Interloper (Grim), And occasionally Karek).
There's also [irc://irc.nexuswar.com/beerhah #beerhah] with some others (Wan, Animesucks, Etc)
== nice little rooster... ==
*squeak* Regarding the little black rooster in your sig, just redirect the imagepage to your userpage and it'll work as a link in itself. Just watch our rat -> *squeal* -- {{User:TRF/sig}} 15:05, 18 July 2008 (BST)
==Promotions==
I regret to inform you your promotions bid has been unsuccessful. --[[User:Grim_s|The Grimch]] <sup>[[Project UnWelcome|U!]] [[Project Evil|E!]]</sup> 20:36, 23 July 2008 (BST)
== Adding Suburb pages to Mobile Phone Mast bot? ==
Hi Rooster,
I was [[Template_talk:Suburb#Suggestion:_Automatically_list_Suburb_Danger_Level.2C_Latest_External_Military_Report_Status.2C_Phone_Mast_Status_on_Suburb_template|looking into ways]] to add the current status of a suburb's Phone Mast to that suburb's information box. I started work on a template to provide a nice text description of the current status after the mast listing, but then ran up against the difficulty of extracting the current status from your list of masts by just having the suburb name, without availability of the parser functions.
What I'm wondering is if you might be willing to add functionality to your bot to update the suburb pages in the same way your Necrotech building bot does. The result could either be a human-friendly text status (my original idea) eg:
::'''[[Phone Mast]]''': [[Smith Towers]] [55, 16] Unpowered
My existing templates of [[Template:MalTelMastStatusText_active]], [[Template:MalTelMastStatusText_inactive]] etc. could help with that.
However, coloring it in the same way you do the Necrotech buildings might work too.
For suburbs where the building name isn't linked, perhaps it could be added. All of this would just use the existing ''mast_coordinates'' line in the infobox.
What do you think? :) --[[User:Zhani|Zhani]] 19:18, 29 August 2008 (BST)
:I must re-learn wiki markup. Will attempt to consider awesomeness of your idea in the future, where I will almost certainly ask somebody with more skill to have a go at it anyway. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
== External Military Report Bot working? ==
Is the external military report bot being ran?  If so it could make it a lot easier for me to update the reports page, but it says that it hasen't been ran in over a month. [[User:Kevyn Wu|Kevyn Wu]] 06:45, 2 September 2008 (BST)
:Will resurrect bot soon, providing it will still run without destroying anything. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
== Ackland Mall in the [[MIC]] ==
From what I can tell, someone tried to combine a phone mast template with the MallStatus template (because Ackland has Havercroft's phone mast). Whatever they tried didn't work, but I don't know enough about templates to fix it. Can you provide assistance? The page in question is [[User:DangerReport/Ackland Mall|here]]. --{{User:Pedentic/Sig}} 21:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not even going to look at the page, it's probably been fixed/worked around. If for some bizarre it hasn't, maybe then I'll have a peek. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
::It seems to have been fixed/worked around, like you've assumed. Cheers! --{{User:Pedentic/Sig}} 17:58, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
== Ninja Mode? ==
Still alive in your box? If you're done with Urbandead and the bots, I wouldn't mind running them.. {{User:Dr Cory Bjornson/Sig}} 22:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
:Am back from a webcomic binge to instead do some wiki-binging. Will attempt to fix/update and distribute the bots to some extent. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
::I take it I'd need to create separate accounts for them, If I were to run them? Also, what about having bots edit a page when run to let other instances of the same bot know not to interfere? {{User:Dr Cory Bjornson/Sig}} 04:46, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
:::My initial thoughts were keeping the current bots accounts, and logging the related wiki-user's account somewhere. (EG: The Update Record page that I currently used would also contain the signature of whoever ran it last) I was also thinking of a page that dealt with 'interference' by having a variable along the lines of 'InstanceRunning=True/False' and probably another page for the version of the bot (so older versions don't destroy things), whether it's allowed to run at all (for when I find the wiki-destroying error) and the last time of it's running (no need to run most of these more than once a day, really) {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 12:29, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
== Welcome Back ==
Good to see you! --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:36, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
:Ah! The edit-conflict was unexpected! You're WAY too fast on the ball. Thanks for the welcome though :) {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
::Thats us sysops for you! --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Sysop? Oooo, congrats!. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:59, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Have you not heard about the failed coup? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:08, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::I have been back a grand total of 20 minutes, I'm still working on determining if anybody has changed anything that might make my bots explode the wiki. I have had a chance to catch up on the latest over-dramatic nonsense this site spews out. So, explain away! {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
[[Mod Conspiracy]] --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
:Or [[UDWiki talk:Administration/Misconduct/Archive/Grim s/200809]] I don't think anythings been done to the danger reports since you've left. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:14, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
::I'll have to sift through it when I have a proper chunk of free time. Anyway, while it's nice the danger reports haven't changed, I expected ''progress!'' Oh well, in keeping with the lack of progress theme, the first error I found was a case of a deleted user line. That piece of poor design plagues everything! I'll risk a manual run once I've fixed that and also the [[MPM]] page a bit. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:20, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
== disambig ==
You're stuffing up the links on the locations blocks (at least the towers ones) <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 01:04 25 January 2009 (BST)</small>
:Yeah, I caught it after bout 10 seconds into that grouping, working on manual fixes now. Odd circumstances I wasn't expecting with the links linking to a disambig page, to the tower's location on that disambig page (which the bot was locking onto) which in turn linked to the actual building's page! What was the point in setting it up like that? Weird. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 01:09, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::I did it. It's so that if you click on the link on the 9block template, you get taken to the actual location you want on the grouped location page (when all the locations info was on the Tollyton Towers page) <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 01:15 25 January 2009 (BST)</small>
:::Yes, I've encountered that before, though usually they're not marked as disambiguation pages thus allowing me to not care. I'll keep an eye out for any others, thanks for the heads up. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 01:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::::BTW, it would probably be an idea to register a wiki account [[:Category:Bots|dedicated to your bot]]. If something goes wrong, it makes it easier to deal with, in that it can be temporarily banned by any sysop that notices, and it's edits are all on the one contributions page for easy rollback (rather than mixed in with your other edits) <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 01:22 25 January 2009 (BST)</small>
:::::Would've done had I thought this was going to be such a job at the time, I was rather expecting to make a few hundred edits tops and have finished. Currently I've got less than 1900 pages left to check, of which maybe 20% (based on average so far) will need changing. In comparison to the far-too-many edits I've made with it so far, I'll just let these 400 run out and end there. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 02:02, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
The bot doesn't actually unmerge any of the locations does it? So, that means we still have to go back and do that anyway, right? If we still have to go back over what the bot has done it seems pointless to run the bot.--{{User:Nubis/sig}} 17:10, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's very useful for cleaning up ''after'' they've been unmerged! <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 10:34 27 January 2009 (BST)</small>
:No, it won't unmerge the collection pages, but it wasn't designed to. It will disambiguate any locationblock template (Most of the edits have been from pages dedicated to single locations) and that was my original goal. (On course to reduce links to disambiguation pages to around 1700 from whatever ungodly number it was) The mass unmerging can be done with another bot (shouldn't be too difficult either), one thing at a time. :) {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:33, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::I wouldn't count on grouped locations pages being predictable enough <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 10:34 27 January 2009 (BST)</small>
Ok, I'm lost, why should the order of disambiguation and unmerging matter? Do you mean if the unmerging then creates an ambiguous link? I can have the bot do a quick lookup on the Locations List for that. I also don't see that the collection pages should be that much of a problem, it can just rip the location template from the page and stick a copy on a new page. Minor nuisances like descriptive text (what little there usually is) is just a quick copy paste job between two textboxes before I hit the 'Save Page' button. The bot does the tedious work, cuts down on page calls and saves time. I don't get bored, and could turn those pages around in probably ten seconds each. Sure, there's the overhead time of setting this up, but the number of pages means that it probably works out in my favour timewise to do it that way, and certainly works out in my favour in terms of not making me terminally bored. But if you still rather I didn't, just say. I wouldn't want to make things worse, the manual changing of those pages would occur in due course, after all.
Anyway, I'll probably set up a generic bot account for any mass edits from now on, tis a good idea Boxy. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 18:38, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
== Mall Status Map ==
The only real problem with your updated version is it's a bit 'busy' on the eyes, it not as easy to read at a casual glance as the old one, although it does contain much needed extra information.
I did have the idea of combining the suburb feature from the [[Omnimap]] into the Mall Status Map, allowing people to see the current status of the suburbs using the colour code and being able to see the names of the suburbs with a roll over. -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 14:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, it works better without the names and images. I was hesitant to remove them since it was more of an established page. The rollover provides you with the mall name anyway. We'll see whether other people think it could do with de-cluttering too. I'm inclined to agree with you on that point.
:As far as the Omnimap bit goes, the whole reason for the suburb system there (as opposed to using the danger map underneath, like the StatusMap system) was because it needed to show [[SIM]] data too. It was just a clever workaround, and probably not needed on things like the [[MSM]] or [[NT Status Map]] etc, unless you mean something else? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 15:05, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
::I've just had a go at this, but my coding fails me. I'm thinking a map similar to the old MSM, using [[:Image:Mall-status-map.png]] and the old status system, but with the addition of a SIM suburb border overlay. This will allow the MSM to display the relative danger levels as well (though I think the colouring will need to be tweaked to make it easier to read). This also means that rolling over a suburb on the MSM will give you its name and a clickable link to its page and thereby reduce the visual clutter on the current MSM. Am making sense? -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 18:47, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
(Deindented)Uh, not really.
*When you say a 'SIM suburb border overlay' do you mean:
**The Omnimap's suburb border's, the transparent gif's?
**The SIM-grid map's suburb grid overlay?
**Actual SIM data?
**Something else?
I get what you mean by the rollover, the same thing as you currently get for the Omnimap. Am you wishing to use this to replace the current underlay that looks a bit like the suburb danger map?
Resulting in, from the bottom-up:
*Old map image you linked on the bottom
*Layer of suburb status borders, like the current Omnimap. (If you mean that)
*Invisible layer of clickable suburb links
*Old status system (Mall name and status image) on top
Have I got that right? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:59, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
:This level of complexity is why I can't code maps. You seem to have got what I'm after in your 'resulting in' section. However looking at that image I've linked it's got the malls on the image (I thought it was just a grid), and the coloured blocks representing the current status, like the NT Status Map, seem to make an easier instant reference.
:Following your list, what I think I'm trying to say is:
:*Grid image (I find an underlying grid to be especially helpful for working out routes without having to use another map)
:*Layer of suburb borders (like the current Omnimap, so it auto updates)
:*Invisible layer of clickable links to suburb pages (again like the current Omnimap)
:*New status system (changed my mind due to the ease of the colour references)
:Is all that even possible? Viable? And will it actually make it better do you think? -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 20:14, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
::Possible, very. The various parts listed are all work separately on their own, so you can just mix and match as you want, making some adjustments for size and so on.
::Making it better is another argument. I would suggest first the mall name and status image get ditched (from the old system) and just leave the auto updating colours on what's left (basically, it would be exactly like the [[NT Status Map]] and [[MPM Status Map]], just for malls). I personally don't think the suburb links are that distracting. I can see the suburb's in the back being confusing though, it is a lot of colours. Do you find it a problem on the other two maps I just mentioned? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:53, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
:::On the other maps (NT and MPM maps) the individual location names aren't needed and the suburb names are, however I feel the opposite is the case for malls, it is the mall name (and therefore links to individual mall pages) that is more important. Saying that, what I found limiting for the old system was the fact I had to click the mall name and then go to the suburb page if I needed a general update. I'd like to see whether it'd be viable to have both mall and suburb links, but it's the suburb name links that ''seem'' to clutter the map compared to the old one, but I can see how the inverse would be true given your work on the other status maps.
:::I'll have another go at a mock-up, my last attempt ended in disaster, but I'll see if I can code up something near what I'm trying to convey. -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 21:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
===A Mock Up===
::::Again my attempt ended [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Iscariot/WIP10&oldid=1378855 in disaster].If the image will go to the background, so the links work, and it all lines up of course, that's pretty much what I'm getting at. I'm thinking a change in the background image colour to a dark grey grid will make the border colouring show up better. -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 21:30, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::You're basically there actually. Heh. You're gonna struggle lining it all up without some size changes, because both maps operate on very different scales, but no major worries on that. You're right about the background, the Omnimap relies quiet a bit on the fact SIM data is mostly black. If you set up the main table as a gray (not black, or the gridlines won't show) background, and just shift the div containing the image above the code for the suburb links, you're mostly set. Items are pasted on one at a time, so something at the top will get buried by what is pasted on later. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:40, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::I have had a small brainwave, either that or some sort of seizure from too much time editing the Imbalance page today. Anyway, it might be possible to make the little block representing the building clickable, and take you to that building! You already get a nice report on mouseover which tells you the building's name, so would clickability solve the problem with linking to the mall? (Could always add a note on top of page explaining how to navigate the map for such a purpose) Regardless, I might just try that at some point anyway, it would be handy. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:20, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::I'm having a hell of a time trying to resize those layers, time to call the Gnome methinks. Your idea about making the blocks clickable could be workable, the mall have would be displayed on mouseover and might work visually with the page not being over saturated. Depending on how it works it might be an idea to add the other large buildings, cathedrals, mansions and forts to the map for an overall view of Malton. -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 22:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Resizing wise, you'll probably want to rip open a word processor for some find/replace of size code. I'd suggest scaling up the suburb links and suburb borders to the size of the metatac grid. I'll have a look at it if it's still troubling you. As far as a view of Malton goes, I had a similar idea swishing around in my head, for 'Important' buildings in Malton. Basically, Malls, NTs and Forts. Other stuff isn't that important really. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:45, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I'm trying both Rev and Gnome to see if they can fix the resizing problem, if you've got time, feel free to have a go, after that I'll see about tweaking the aesthetics to make it legible and then we'll see how it compares to the other designs. The reason I suggested the large buildings is because they tend to be indicative of the general health of a suburb, more so that NTs which can generally be suicide striked by a few survivors to get up and running again. -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 22:52, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::No reason we can't have both! Big buildings and important buildings on two maps. The [[BIC]] would match up with the big ones perfectly. Anyway, I've determined that the suburb links line up just fine (set the table to a colourful background, you can see it, I used that trick to check it lined up on the [[SIMgrid]] and Omnimap when I set it up way back when. The suburb borders just need a new template, that formats said images to the correct width (79px) and a small edit to the table for the inclusion of a 1px cellspacing. You're literally done after that. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 23:01, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
== BIC Status Updater Bot ==
Hey Rooster, just wondering how progress is coming on the design for this bot. It would certainly do wonders for the wiki, and save me from changing old BIC statuses to unknown manually. You've made some great bots already, and I'm really looking forward to this one as well. --{{User:Maverick Farrant/sig}} 16:18, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
:It has not progressed since my return, most of my bot related time has been to fixing error after error I've suddenly found with the EMR bot. I think a moron possessed me while I was typing up that code or something. Hopefully the BIC bot will be on the cards soon. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:09, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
::Right on.  If there's anything I can do to help in the meantime let me know.  Otherwise I'll just keep manually updating as many of the BIC reports in the Rose District as I can. --{{User:Maverick Farrant/sig}} 22:15, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Rooster, just had an idea for the BIC Status bot.  What about setting it up essentially like the bot for the mobile mast status?  Add 'safeold', etc to the list of statuses that the bot can automatically edit for ones that haven't been updated in a week, and default to 'unknown' after a month.  I don't know how or if it would even be possible to change the actual comment line, but the status image might be a simple fix in the meantime. --{{User:Maverick Farrant/sig}} 19:01, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
:Personally, I hate that system. It just creates a needless amount of updating that can't really be handled by anything other than a bot. The reason it's used for masts is because generators run out after five days, thus 'activeold' which really means 'haven't checked for a while, probably out of fuel'. For continuity, all the others statuses get an 'old' version too. Anyway, I was probably only going to hit stuff over a month old, although week old reports are ''probably'' wrong, they might not always be. Besides we don't get enough updates for weekly clean-outs. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:52, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
::Hmm... good point.  I'll keep brainstorming. --{{User:Maverick Farrant/sig}} 18:38, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
==Testing Dulton==
Any chance you could run up a similar section for vinetown? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 20:46, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
:Still working on fixing the errors. Those awful newlines have come back to haunt me again. Why are they appearing! Argh! {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
:Ok, errors are fixed. If you want to mock up one for Vinetown, go right ahead. The code should be pretty obvious. I'm still in the process of wondering what could yet be gotten out of the system. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:30, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
== cyclical activity. ==
Right, I'm off. Thanks for the message and best of luck! --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:31, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
== [[User:The Rooster/Sandpit/7]] ==
Maybe we could get some sort of project going? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
:That was the general idea, though I'm not entirely sure where to start. I'd like to get something set up so that it gets maximum attention, preferably with a nice block on the main page. Though that's beyond even my generally bold editing of things, and also my user rights of course.
:I'd be happy to see a project created, but it would need a little time with a few users helping out to set everything up properly, and then a big intrusion onto the main page and general wikispace to try and get the community ball rolling. I wouldn't want to waste my own effort, and especially other user's, setting it up only to have nothing happen. [[Project CP]] was a good idea, but CP being the generally deserted area that it was, and the lack of any mission to get people involved again means that the community portal continues to be a generally deserted area. I'm aiming for all or nothing here, and nothing isn't an option. As a reasonably active but almost all behind-the-scenes user, I'm not that well known or particularly influential. Yet here I am, with a backwater sandpit page, pondering nothing less than one of the biggest shake ups in the wiki in recent times. You can see my predicament and general pessimism at this working by now, I hope. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 00:39, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
::Wiki news could help with visibility, but it can only be up there so long. Something large and noticeable would be great, but I don't know where that would fit into the main page. Speaking of the main page, it could probably do with a redesign. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:51, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I'm kinda thinking of a new entity entirely. A nice, permanent, fixture on the main page. Highlighting all the interesting stuff happening. Like I note on my list, maybe an article of the week and/or article in need of help of the week. Wiki news would be a section of it, and the 'Community Portal' (or something else if renamed) would be the general one-stop shop for finding out which wiki-maintenance projects are going on, what ideas people are proposing for new pages, and for getting help in getting pages updated more. It would also be the place to suggest big changes on the wiki, because I envisage it as being a place where users will check a lot. An entry in the wikinews if the project starts would suffice in trying to attract a few users. The first thing we could attack would be a redesign of the main page, to include whatever 'Community Portal' block we'd like, and whatever other changes people might be after. (I'm guessing you have some to suggest, since you mentioned it) Once done, the main page gets updated, and the general invasion of the wiki starts. I'm really am talking about a big attempt to get a proper community spot set up, no half measures. I am probably being somewhat insane. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 01:08, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
::::I have a few ideas for a new main page and how to set things up. I'm thinking Urban Dead themed with the colours and style and all, something different from the common Wikipedia-like look to main pages. I'll be gone for the weekend however, so don't expect anything yet. :O --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:42, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
::When you guys get the ball rolling, you can count me in. --{{User:Maverick Farrant/sig}} 06:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Sure thing Maverick. Anyway, Gnome I did a little test and found there was 821x550 room on the page in IE, fullscreen for the most common res of 1024x768. Obviously you can have more than 550 height, but that's gonna be in the scroll down region for most people. So if you design it with that in mind, you'll probably be able to get a page that makes the most of the space without too big a cramp. The current version does have some obvious points for improvement, like the 95% width of tables could be 100%, the wiki already gives a margin, no need for extra. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 14:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
===Main Page Redesign===
[[User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sandbox3|I started it]], but I don't like rounded borders. Annoying to code, looks fugly etc. It's at a rough outline right now.--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 04:20, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
:The rounded corners can go, as an IE user I can't even see them. All the pages here seem fine without them and all the places I've see the code I can't imagine actually add much since the page looks fine anyway. The other places I've see it are coder idiocy because they wanted 'teh kool korners' and didn't think about if it was actually a smart idea. Your page looks fine to me without them, and probably better than with since everything tessellates nicely. Also, it matches the UD style better. Coding wise, three things jump out off the bat.
:*You can lose the br clear bit I think, just leave a gap. It seems to work fine and also allows there to be a nice gap.
:*Border wise, I'm pretty sure there's a way to compact the code that might be applicable here. I think it goes something like "border-something: 10 3 10 3;" where each number relates to each border, revolving clockwise from left I think. Might also be possible for padding.
:*Drop the divs, it doesn't allow you to set spacing between the two sections properly. Nested tables are probably nastier to code by can give the correct result.
:{{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 13:21, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
::I'm good with tables, oddly. Updated.--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Well that took care of all the points I had pretty neatly, didn't it? I like it very much. I made a couple of minor fixes. (Well one, the v-align for news, in case the CP bit is ever taller, otherwise little). May I also congratulate you on some wonderfully obfuscated code at the bottom, that's brilliantly evil. Onto the more subjective stuff:
:::*Do you think it's worth keeping the current header, that shows the latest game update and the logo? I don't think it's worth repeating what the main site says for its header anyway, but I feel the page is lacking a focus point at the top...maybe just inserting the logo in the top left of the introductory text box?
:::*What other links are you planning to include? I don't think we need the same amount of insane links as now, but there's room for a few more. I think keeping a few of the important map/information centre links would be good. [[Suburb]] definitely, maybe also the [[MIC]]/[[MPM]] and [[NIC]]/[[NT Status Map]]. I prefer the maps, but the IC's are good too.
:::What do you plan on transcluding? I assume the CP and news sections, anything else? Finally, any thoughts on what to stick in the CP bit as a place holder until it's decided what we should actually have there? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:10, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
::::Updated the top part with <font face="cracked">Urban Dead</font>, let me know if the cracked font doesn't work or if the alignment looks wonky, we can always switch it for an image. I agree though, less links are needed for the site nav at the bottom. Maybe projects, or community activities should be in the CP section? Things that aren't normally announced in the wiki news section, but deserve a notice. Also, yep CP & Wiki News will be template, that's it though.--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:46, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, font doesn't work for me, you'd have to stick to something standard anyway, or else use an image. Link wise I've had a thought, if the links tend to be ones that link to the other stuff (IE: Administration links to all the various admin bits, and the BIC links to all the maps and other status information) then you can cut down a lot, while still providing a leap pad to get to places. I agree that current community projects would make a good bit for the CP section, though no doubt that'll be expanded upon somewhat. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::Image it is then. Think the wiki news section needs little aesthetic boxes like the site navigation section at the bottom?--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:14, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Sounds good, go for it. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:18, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm thinking these links for the site navigation part:
'''Gameplay Information'''
*[[Frequently Asked Questions]]
*[[Gameplay]]
*[[:Category:Character_classes|Character Classes]]
*[[:Category:skills|Skills]]
*[[:Category:Items|Items]]
*[[Suburb|Map of Malton]]
*[[Malton]]
*[[Monroeville]]
*[[Borehamwood]]
'''Player Information'''
*[[Guides:A Beginners Guide to Urban Dead|Info for Beginners]]
*[[Guides|Playing Guides]]
*[[:Category:Glossary|Glossary]]
*[[:Category:Groups|Groups]]
*[[Suggestions|Suggestions Portal]]
*[[Building Information Center]]
'''Wiki Information'''
*[[Wiki Questions]]
*[[Help]]
*[[:Category:Templates|Templates]]
*[[UDWiki:Administration|Administration]]
*[[User Hub]]
'''External Links'''
*[http://www.urbandead.com/stats.html Game Stats]
*[[Unofficial UD Forums]]
*[[Urban Dead IRC Channels]]
*[http://www.urbandead.info/ Iwitness]
*[http://profiles.urbandead.net Searchable Profile DB]
*[[External Links|more...]]
We could probably do with some obvious in-your-face general starter guide like on what's on the main page now. Feel free to edit the list. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
:I made only a few additions and changes, you basically got everything I would've added. Do you plan on indicating that external links are external? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 23:17, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
::Mmm, I don't know. I don't like the little blue box things. I could change the colour of it, maybe. Should it be indicated? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:35, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Updated. The site navigation looks nice, but it feels off balanced because of the cities. It could be compensated by adding stuff to the other 3 sections, or moving the cities elsewhere? Would it be a good idea to put the game updates somewhere? Seems silly not to have them, but I'm not sure where to put it. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
::::I feel the cities should be included, maybe a mention of them at the end of the intro? "The main city of Urban Dead is [[Malton]], but outbreaks have been seen in the cities of [[Monroeville]] and [[Borehamwood]] too." or something like that? Hmm.
::::External link wise, I've never been a fan of the system either (Though it's the lighter text that annoys me). Normally, I would say you should indicate them as a matter of continuity, but in this case, the only external links are under the aptly named 'External Links' section, and so people should expect them even if the usual symbol isn't there. I think you can get away with it. Also, if you wish to be very pedantic about the section heights, you could add a link to the Community Portal under Wiki Info. Slightly redundant, but it makes everything a nice 6 links tall. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 18:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::Added the latest news section. Other than templating the news sections and CP, all we have left is the Community Portal. I'm not sure what should go there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:43, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::Maybe just make a small list of active projects until we get something better set up. The Great Suburb Group Massacre is definitely a good example. 'A Tale of Undead Cities' is a reasonably good one. Should probably have one more to fit the rule of three...maybe a quick mention of the UHUB having recently come online? I'm think basically the name and then a quick description (might even be able to use the 'aesthetic tables' like the News and section lists) EG:
Some of the current projects around the wiki:
*[[The Great Suburb Group Massacre]] - To keep the wiki up to date, [[groups]] have been queried as to whether they are still active, you can help out in the maintenance effort. If you're part of an active group, make sure you confirm it as active before the 27th February!
*[[A Tale of Undead Cities]] - An organization effort to clean up, improve and revamp the three city pages about [[Malton]], [[Monroeville]] and [[Borehamwood]]. Help discuss ideas and add your own suggestions for improvements.
*[[User Hub]] - Recently implemented, the user hub allows you to search for users on the wiki more easily. Bookmark it, and come add your name.
Is the tone suitable? Also, you probably want to write something about the user hub, I've made a right hash of that one. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 02:10, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
:CP updated. I've been scouring other wikis to see what they do with their main page. I think what we have now is fine and we can always add something later. Other than the templating, does it look good to go?--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
::Looks fine and dandy to me sir, and it works an utter treat on smaller resolutions too. The only minor things I can spot are:
::*Your edit link for the news has a case error, it should be 'Wiki '''N'''ews' not 'Wiki '''n'''ews'.
::*You need a proper article in the spotlight. Either that and you need a proper description for the example page. Hehe. You could always be a bit cheeky and have: "Main Page - Our main page has just received a really nice redesign, go check it out!". Ok...maybe not.
::Last time the main page was changed, a vote was called on its talk page, is that what you are planning to do? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 23:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmm, I can't think of anything new or amazing that would go under the spotlight, except perhaps the redesigned [[Suggestions|suggestions portal]]. Perhaps an article needing work? For implementation, I was thinking of sneaking it under the radar through [[A/PT]], may require a few bribes though. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:30, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
::::We can work on what to include in the CP bit in due course. You could just ditch that bit for now, it'll be back I'm sure. As for a 'sneaking' it through A/PT...that's a joke, right? I'll go up the Drama template to 'wikigate' in preparation... {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 23:42, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::I'm totally serial. But seriously, I suppose a little announcement and some discussion on the talk page couldn't hurt. Yarp?--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:48, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::Indeed. I'll swing by and put down my vote once you've announced your little redesign. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 00:02, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Will do. Something else we might be able to add is that 'coders central' thing, and projects like [[Project Mentor]]. Anyway, deal with that later. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:05, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
===[[User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sandbox3|Main Page Redesign V2]]===
Updated with a white background. Anyways, I've got something going on at the bottom. Few things: the rounded borders can be done with images, the Urban Dead can be an image urban dead themed thing, and the links are just placeholders (the most important stuff will go there). What are you thinking? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 02:35, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:I'm slightly lost. I get the white thing for those who don't fancy the green. But I have no idea what you're getting at with everything else. What are you after? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 14:38, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::The bottom [[User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sandbox3#hmm...|hmm...]] section. The edges can have rounded borders with images (so people using IE can see it). The words Urban Dead could probably something better, an image. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:25, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::I thought you meant rounded borders worked on images. Heh. Ok, so this random section, is this a third page variant in progress or what? At the moment you're just throwing random musings at me and I don't know what you're trying to achieve. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 15:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure yet either. It's another attempt, like the current main page except it has some changes. The redundant Frequently Asked Suggestions bit can have important links to go through right off the bat, while the rest of the navigation can be at the bottom.  See [[DHPD]] for the rounded image corners. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 15:36, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::If you're going to use images you can have it look like whatever you like. No need to limit yourself to rounding corners. Beveled corners. Some gradients. Pictures of things. All sorts of stuff. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::Good points. I like the idea of having little iddy biddy images for titles, like <span class="plainlinks">[http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Main_Page Evelopedia]</span>.--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:20, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, they're alright. I was also thinking, since a few people seem to be against change in general, might it be worth just trying to rearrange and fix the current page to fit in the CP and make other minor fixes? It is mostly just layout problems, especially when it's scaled up. Could it be worked around? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:38, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::It could be. The very first Urban Dead title could retain it's shape, but I'd like less height and be able to incorporate those most-important links to the side. The latest news may need to go somewhere else, or be shifted. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Updated. Perhaps with some better alignment, latest news could be put under those links in a white rounded box? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah maybe it could, give it a go. As far as just messing the current page around: Yeah, the main header is too big, the image can be scaled down too. I was thinking having the introduction take up the full width after that, with the CP and news side by side below that. Then the current navigation below that. The news takes up too much width to be floating in the intro's space. I'll go usurp the [[Sandbox]] for some test editing. My sandpit is beyond overused. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:59, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
[[Sandbox|Usurping complete]]. If I can hack that together in a few minutes then no doubt a proper setup can no doubt be made. I had to subst the wiki news somewhat in order to get rid of the fixed width it's set to. Letting the browser deal with the width's helps to kill the whitespace somewhat. The news box template is a bit messy to say the least, and I'm sure more can be done to get it to align seamlessly. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Updated with the links, probably needs better alignment. I like a lighter green, but the logo background will need to be changed. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:Well, it's one possible way of cleaning up the nav bit. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 21:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::Perhaps it could do those silhouettes behind the 9 links at the top right? For the old main page design, perhaps it could be made of use on the [[Community Portal]] page? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:51, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't think we need them behind the links, it won't add much there given the lack of room and the fact there are links in the way. I can whip up a transparent logo for you though. As far the the CP goes, one page at a time, eh? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::::Of course. Oh, I can easily make text on images. Click the H in my sig. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::I'm not doubting you can put the links in front of the image. I'm saying doing so would look weird and that adding the image behind wouldn't add anything. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::Mmkay. Anything else to add? I'm not fond of the colour scheme for the wiki news section. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:11, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::You're right, it looks really wrong, especially given the white background. Maybe two light shades of grey? Also, the Community Portal bit, even if just a placeholder, also needs fixing up. Up to you how to tackle that. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Chucked the transparent image up. I need to know which fonts to use to be honest, the bottom part looks off since the background was deleted from around it, and the top part I had to use a close font match since it wasn't going to come out ok otherwise. SO it's not an exact copy this. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 22:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Yeah, it looks kinda faded. I'll give Kevan a shout, maybe. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:58, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::Updated. Rounded borders on the bottom of CP and Wiki News, they're fatty thick because that's the only way I could get the curved edges to work only on the bottom. Is the interchanging colours in the Wiki News part better? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 04:05, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::Yeah, the colour interchange is better, and I'm impervious to ye rounded corners so I'll take you word on that. The only probably is when I shrink the window, and the news seems to be set to have it's overflow cut off rather than forcing the nav bit down. Is that intentional? The CP section is likely to get a lot bigger once we have some idea what to put in it, which will likely solve the news problem. I can't imagine it'll create too much of a whitespace issue, we'll see I guess. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 13:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::I can set it to a set width for the Wiki News section. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::::<s>Oh dear lord no! Leave it up to the browser so it can divide up the news and CP as it likes and cut down on the whitespace. I had to remove the fixed width in my initial muck about because it just leaves the CP with a big gap underneath since it gets to absorb most of the screen width on bigger resolutions. I'm actually not too worried, like I said, I'm sure the CP bit will be longer in most cases anyway. For completeness though, would a br:clear thingy do the job? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:21, 22 February 2009 (UTC)</s>
:::::::::::::Ok, so your magical coding means that when ''you'' set it to a fixed width, it works just bloody fine. Ignore my nonsense. :P {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:24, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::::{{*}}Wiggles fingers* Magik. Well, I got nothing significant to change. The links might need altering in the Nav, but we can let the rest of the peoples decide that through discussion. All that's left is figuring out the rounded images for the corners. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:18, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Can I assume you want them at all the places you currently have the rounded code? I can knock up some with the radius's specified, they'll be a fixed colour which is a downside. ''Unless'' you want to be cheeky and have the inverse made white. That would cover the corner of a rectangular box and you could change the colour if ever needed then, it just relies on a white background being the default instead. Have I made sense there? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 18:22, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Hmm, either or. It shouldn't matter. I'd just start with the first Urban Dead header part block thing, then we can go from there. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 18:28, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::<s>The bottom doesn't want to work. I can't get it centered properly without pushing everything else up, or giving way to the upper right. Could you combine the upper left and lower left & upper right and lower right?</s> --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 19:02, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::Oh you... --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 19:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::Gotta love divs :) Are you getting a colour mismatch though? I had it mismatched originally, and reuploaded after making sure the saved file had the right colour, but somehow I've got a different colour on my screen. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::It looks off in Safari, but fine in Firefox. Except what you have with the image alignment doesn't work in Firefox. Might I suggest combining the upper right and upper left etc like [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/UnTunes:Main_Page looks like here]? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 19:10, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::::Well, I still don't see why the colour refuses to match up, I swear the server is toying with my images. And if the divs won't work on FF, we better drop em unless there's a workaround. Can't have a main header of fixed width since the table is variable width. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::::Mmm. Go for fixed height instead? Things may be screwy if Kevan decides to update the game, though nothing else comes to mind. The problem with FF is the curvy images are placed on top/under the background, instead of over it. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 19:16, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::::::That's easily fixed with z-order. I'll add that in. I'll have to do some investigation of the colour issue another time. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:32, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::::::No change. [[:Image:Main_page_problem.png|this is what it looks like]]. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 19:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
<small>(Deindented for Sanity)</small> Oh, I thought you meant something else. Sorry about that. Not too sure about how to fix your error. You might try editing it yourself to try and correct it. Might be something about how IE and FF deal with the top/bottom absolute div.  I've done some googling and I can correct the colour mismatch though. If you can't sort the div's, you could always go back to the border radius code and drop the images. Not having rounded corners isn't really a problem. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:19, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:Tried that. While I can align it properly in FF, it'll make it wacko in other browsers... I'll put it back the border radius. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 20:43, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah, tis probably for the best. I'll go get the images speedied. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:58, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
The last one, I'll put it on a separate page to avoid confusion. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 00:27, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
== The Great Suburb Group Massacre, 2009 ==
Is there a page for this anywhere? I noticed you posting on a group's page asking if they were still active, but I didn't see a link to a page for the project. --{{User:Pestolence/Sig}} 20:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
:Hmm, I had just followed suit based on some earlier posts. Could go back and link it I suppose, though it's not too much of a worry since all they have to do is respond on their talk page. I'll go back and link when I get the chance. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
::OK, cool. Just wondering. --{{User:Pestolence/Sig}} 20:21, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
== My sig ==
Can I increase the size of the images so those two white bars above them don't show up? Or, is there another way? --{{User:Haliman111/sig}} 16:31, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
== Bots ==
Do you think it would be possible to program a bot to work off the user list and add the welcomenewbie template to all new user talk pages automatically? The template will need altering if this can be done, but I'd thought I'd check with you if it's viable before planning that. -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 23:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
:It'd definitely help, and it gets rid of the user provided WN spam.--<font face="Rage italic"><span style="color: DarkMagenta">Suicidal Angel,</span> [[User_talk:Suicidalangel|<span style="color: DarkGreen">Help</span>]] [[Project_Mentor|<span style="color: Black">needed?</span>]]</font> 23:15, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
'''This section of the conversation was tactically lasered from orbit due to: ''Irrelevance'', later followed by ''juvenile bickering''. Go whine about each other on your own pages, mmmkay? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}}'''
:Is there a way to go through the user list and only pick out "newbies", rather than users without talk pages, that may be long abandoned?. Perhaps [[Special:Contributions/newbies]] may be a better page to work on? <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 01:44 17 February 2009 (BST)</small>
::Well we know that bots can work from ''current time'' as they can do updates based on time with danger reports, so if we tell the bot to start from X time and give every user that is created after that time a template (with a line of code telling it not to repeat itself of course) we should be fine. The only thing that will need to be done to prevent duplication will be to tell users not to add the template any more, provided the bot is running often enough to cover newbies. -- {{User:Iscariot/Signature}} 01:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
:::[[MediaWiki:Welcomecreation|Already done]], tell users they are adding the template in error as it's duplicating an already existing wiki function, that text I linked appears to all new wiki accounts when they first load a page.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:44, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
::::While the current text based wall of doom method is pretty high on the insensitivity scale, having an automated script do it really takes the biscuit. Whatever happened to people just leaving a nice message, anyway? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 12:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
== Rooster ==
Evening.
[[User:Rosslessness/Random Rambling/Sandbox32|A quick initial purge]] of the current navigation. Several of the pages left can be lost if they are referred to on other pages, (the lexicon if mentioned in chronicles for instance.) I'll sort that out tomorrow, anything I got read of that you feel is needed? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:25, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:How opinions differ. I like the creation of the cities bit, but otherwise I would've had a different list to a some extent. I would've kept some of the more useful external links. Namely: stats, forums, IRC and IW. I would've dropped more from Player Info, namely: Lexicon, Chronicles, and historic groups/events. The first two are long abandoned and the latter two are of lesser interest. Wiki Info. Drop the Style Guide (until not horribly outdated, anyway) and keep Wiki Questions & Help (even if outdated, it's useful to some extent).
:That's just my opinion of course. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::A difference of opinion! Oh noes!! I lost stats, as its listed in the side bar, and indeed linked on the front page every time you log onto urban dead. I also feel that most people find out about the IRC, forums by joining a group? (I don't know about your own experience).
::Lexicon I will drop, I just need to modify chronicles so its linked from there.
::Help, again linked on the sidebar, and [[Wiki Questions]], HAs only been viewed 20,000 times, and was last used in December. I don't think its needed, with FAQ, help and the remnants of project mentor.
::I'll bring back Iwitness though. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 19:20, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Good points. That's a reasonably good list then, still I doubt that'll suade the many Nay voters. You should inform the Gnome of this list on his sandbox talk I think. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 19:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, I thinking the nav boxes should be uniform in color, mmm? --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 21:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
:You're more than welcome to go tweak. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:25, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
== A couple questions regarding you Mobile Phone Mast Bot. ==
Greetings Mr. Rooster.  I am the creator of the Mobile Phone Mast Coverage template, which is on the [[Mobile Phone Mast]] page.  I was wondering if your bot could be made to update my template, and if you could be persuaded to do so.  My original idea for the template (before your bot started running again) was that it would serve a few purposes.  First, all of the changes would be recorded on the template's history rather than the Mobile Phone Mast page's history, making the Mobile Phone Mast page history easier to dig through.  Second, the mobile coverage data could be easily included on other pages (admittedly, I don't know what other page would need it, but I thought it was worth a mention.)  The last benefit is a personal aesthetic opinion of mine (and I'm certain I am biased) but I think "operational masts accounted for" is slightly more intuitive than "mapped active network coverage."  Anyway, as I said earlier, I was hoping to combine our creations.  I realize the benefits are likely small.  I don't know the difficulty involved in modifying a bot.  So if the difficulty doesn't justify the benefits, or if you just don't want to, then forget I mentioned it.
My other question / comment regarding your bot is that I think it may be missing masts mapped as active.  The last update came up with 12, but I'm almost certain there were 14 masts mapped as active when the update happened.  My speculation is that its missing 2 masts that were updated by users without user pages, but I don't know for sure.  --[[User:Zarneverfike|Zarneverfike]] 04:04, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, such a change is reasonably easy. The old format of the text was just what was in place at the time, so I followed that. Updating a template would be nicer actually, it would be quicker to load and save. I wasn't going to do it originally since at the time you only had the current coverage, and I thought it best not to lose the data. I'll look into changing the code since the template now has everything.
:I have discovered an error recently where it has failed to recognize the timestamp given, but instead of creating an error, just leaves the date set to the default. (00:00 1 Jan, Year 0) and so makes it unknown since this is indeed more than 10 days ago. I traced one report where somebody had dated it manually in a different style. Maybe there were two, or maybe somebody updated not long after it ran? I'll look into it, but I'm not too worried since most people sign properly rather than adding their own timestamp. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 17:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
:I've had a quick go at the template to clean it up a bit. I've also changed the text to "Actual Network Coverage" and "Known Active Masts" and dropped the discrepancy. I think they're better terms, though hit me with any you think are better than that. If it is fine then I can have the bot updating the template right away. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 23:12, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
::That's fantastic.  Those terms seem great to me.  All I did to it was fix a typo on the instructions.  Also, I changed "Correct As Of:" to "Correct as of:" because I'm a capitalization nazi.  If you want it the other way, though, I don't really care.  Basically, I think its just about perfect now.  Once you get the bot running for it, maybe include a bit in the instructions about the bot running similar to the blurb about updating mast statuses to old.  --[[User:Zarneverfike|Zarneverfike]] 00:29, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Not worried over it, I'm caps happy on most things. Anyway, just ran the bot, everything worked and nothing exploded. I'll just update the MPM page accordingly and leave some other notes as appropriate. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 20:58, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
== You seem to know alot about sigs... ==
I may be wrong, but is [[User:VI/S|this guy's]] sig a little too big? Just trying to help out. --{{User:Haliman111/sig}} 01:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
:The current, and not particularly comprehensive, sig policy only forbids ''images'' over 14px. Text can be as big as you like provided it's doesn't "break" something. While his sig does indeed cause minor line breakage, most sigs using superscript cause similar breakage. We could potentially nab most of the wiki for breaking policy. It's a technical point most people ignore, or probably don't even notice. Don't sweat about it. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 16:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
::Ok, sorry. I get it now. --{{User:Haliman111/sig}} 17:07, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
== Things to do ==
Its kind of a placeholder page for in project CP. I'm going to add a number of pages that need a good clean out, or redesign. Starting with [[zombie skills]]. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Go for it! --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:55, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

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