View source for Suggestion talk:20080112 Follow Groan

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==="Follow Groan"===
{{suggestionNew
|suggest_time={{User:Swiers/Sig}} 19:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
|suggest_type=improvement
|suggest_scope=zombies, feeding groan
|suggest_description=This suggestion would simulate zombies blindly and instinctively responding to feeding groans, driven purely by hunger.<br>Each feeding groan you "hear" would have the directions (IE, "3 east, 6 north") changed to saying something like (in this case) "3 east, 6 north (<u>follow for 6 AP</u>)".  Pressing that button (the underlined bit) would automatically move your character to the co-ordinates from which the groan originated, with the AP cost being equal to 1 AP per block moved (which is the same as the higher of the two numbers in the directions), regardless of whether the zombie (or survivor) who heard the groan has [[Lurching Gait]].<br>The main purpose is to make moving to feeding groans cheaper for zombies that lack [[Lurching Gait]]; this simulates the motivating drive hunger gives them.  More experienced zombies (those with [[Lurching Gait]]) would save no AP by moving this way, and would probably prefer to move normally, as they might well see interesting sights along the journey.
|discussion=|}}
====Discussion (Follow Groan)====
Yeah. id probably keep. So do the zeds appear at the destination? Make sense not to gather intel on the way. You are focussed on the meat. What would the maximum distance be? Or is it just how far away any groan is?--{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 19:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yep, the character just appears at the destination, effectively moving up to 6 blocks (the max range of a groan) with one click.  The max range would be limited to 6 blocks, as that is the farthest away you'd ever hear a groan reported from.  And yeah, you don't gather any intel along the way; you're focused purely on moving as fast as your body (live or dead) can manage.  Experienced zeds (and survivors) might use it to get a quicker response in "real time" situations, or to avoid getting lost, or to save IP hits, but its mostly useful for zeds who lack lurching gait. {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 20:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a [[Frequently_Suggested#Speed_Actions|Speed Action]], but it can't really be used in live combat as it depends on an outsider, so that's not an issue. Could you go to negative AP with this? --{{User:Midianian/Sig}} 20:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, its a speed action.  Hell, its a limited form teleportation.  But as you say, a second party action is required to allow it, and its pretty rare to get a "real time" feeding groan report.  I'd expect you could go into negative APs, just because they seem a normal part of game mechanics; I don't see any reason to prevent it in this single instance.  Heck, simply walking from block to block can put you at negative AP if you don't have Lurching Gait!  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 20:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
::How about instead of teleporting, you move at a set pace? Move a square, stay on the square for a few (5? 7 without lurching gait?) seconds, move a square, wait, etc., until you get there. It shouldn't be a free teleporter, there should be some cost to using it. Making it take longer to get there than if you clicked the button yourself seems like it should be part of the cost, especially since you can't accidentally land on the wrong square. --[[User:Ms.Panes|Ms.Panes]] 20:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't really have a problem with going into negative AP (you can do the same thing with syringe manufacture), but consider a survivor lacking AP to move to a revive point might be able to get there by following a groan. --[[User:Uncle Bill|Uncle Bill]] 23:13, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Doesn't bother me, but feeding groans from revive points are pretty rare and generally quiet; you don;t have a big crowd of survivors there.  Still, if RP workers are organized enough to get 6+ survivors to the RP and then have one of the zombies groan, more power to them!  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 00:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
:Im not sure the servers that reliable, or everyones connection.--{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
::Nor am I.  I suspect that setting it up to intentionally delay response would be a serious PITA, and is unlike anything in the game.  If the suggestion needs that to pass, its probably better to just kill it.  Hmm, it occurs to me that free running is also a form of teleportation (in fact I;ve seen it described as such) and is a "speed action".  In some ways, this is very similar to free running; you see less, but move quicker.  Its just instead of the movement bypassing building exit / entry actions, it bypasses intermediate blocks.  (And no, "Follow Groan" would not move you inside if the groan was from inside; you move to the block, but not inside that blocks building.){{User:Swiers/Sig}} 00:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I like this as it is.[[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 22:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This is unconventional, but one of the few speed actions I would actually find acceptable. --{{User:Pdeq/sig}} 23:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This is nonsense. If people wanted to follow the groan, they would follow the groan. Adding a shortcut link will change nothing, except getting a few excitable newbies to click a button and vanish into negative AP. Also, in many cases, such a shortcut is useless because you are dead at the time, and last i checked, you cant move when dead. Its a new way to do old things and voids the Dos and Do nots. Its also a speed action and voids those same guidelines. --[[User:Grim_s|The Grimch]] <sup>[[Project UnWelcome|U!]] [[Project Evil|E!]] [[We are Trolls!|WAT!]]</sup> 01:12, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
:True, it wouldn't work if you were dead, unless there was a ?rise effect (and cost) included- which is probably a bad idea.  But if you aren't dead when you log in, it would work great.  This could further encourage low-levels to horde up and avoid head shots.  As to the rest- pheh.  If it saves AP in some cases, its a new thing.  The game already has several speed actions (manufacture syringe, free running) that work in limited circumstances.  Guidelines are there to steer you away from bad ideas, not to kill good ones.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 02:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
::Neither of those are speed actions. Syringe manufacture is distinct from syringe searching in the fact its woefully inefficient compared to searching, and free running allows entry to buildings heavily caded or above, something impossible by any other means. --[[User:Grim_s|The Grimch]] <sup>[[Project UnWelcome|U!]] [[Project Evil|E!]] [[We are Trolls!|WAT!]]</sup> 02:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Both clearly '''are''' speed actions.  Finding a syringe normally takes more than one page load (unless you are very lucky).  Normal movement from the inside of one building to the inside of another (if it is possible to do so via that route) takes more than one page load.  That's precisely the definition of speed action given on the [[Frequently Suggested]] page.  The fact that both have other benefits / drawbacks simply shows why they (and other things) can be useful exceptions to that guideline.<br>Its worth noting that in the game's history, free running existed BEFORE barricades, and thus could have been designed as a way to allow access to Heavy and higher barricades.  Instead, heavy and higher barricades were designed to forbid access without free running.  Thus, Free Running seems to have been designed solely as a "speed action", and adapted to other use with later developments.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 03:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

'''Like!''' - [[User:Pardus|Pardus]] 14:04, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
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=Discussion on Voting=
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==Discussion on the [[{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}|suggestion]] page==
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About two thirds your suggestion is dedicated to arguing against the things i brought up in talk. Thats an argument if ever i saw one, and not a terribly good one i might add, seeing as how you ignored a whole pile of points i made on the talk page. Especially that free running nonsense. Also, you have ignored two of the Do's and Do nots i pointed out your suggestion breaking. Possibly because there is no form of rebuttal. --The Grimch U! E! WAT! 04:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
:A few lines directly relating to your input is not two thirds of the suggestion.  The majority of the "issues" section is dedicated to clarification of mechanics, as raised in other peoples (not your) questions below.  I didn't adress the other issues you mentioned because I don't repeat myself; that would be arguing.  Its easy enough for others to assess the merits of our statements already.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 04:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you took this to voting too fast. There were a lot of issues raised, which needed time to be addressed to see if workable solutions could have been integrated. I would suggest taking some time to revise this. --[[User:Ms.Panes|Ms.Panes]] 05:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
:Nah, I don't think the issues are really addressable.  That's why I took the best version I could figure out to voting, to see if it was seen as simply unworkable or not.  If it get spammed (as it seems to be) it's probably not worth a re-work.  The basic concept of multi-block movement in one step seems quite unpopular, and there's no good or worthwhile way (IMO) to do it incrementally.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}}

==Re Spam==
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