Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This page is for presenting and discussing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Further Discussion

Discussion concerning this page takes place here. Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general (including policies about it) takes place here.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. There you can read about many idea's that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe, or a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles. There users can also get a handle of what an appropriate suggestion looks like.
• Users should be aware that this is a talk page, where other users are free to use their own point of view, and are not required to be neutral. While voting is based off of the merit of the suggestion, opinions are freely allowed here.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• With the advent of new game updates, users are requested to allow some time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Format for Suggestions under development

Please use this template for discussion. Copy all the code in the box below, click [edit] to the right of the header "Suggestions", paste the copied text above the other suggestions, and replace the text shown here in red with the details of your suggestion.

===Suggestion===
{{suggestionNew
|suggest_time=~~~~
|suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc.
|suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to.
|suggest_description=Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.
|discussion=|}}
====Discussion (Suggestion Name)====
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Cycling Suggestions

Developing suggestions that appear to have been abandoned (i.e. two days or longer without any new edits) will be given a warning for deletion. If there are no new edits it will be deleted seven days following the last edit.

This page is prone to breaking when there are too many templates or the page is too long, so sometimes a suggestion still under strong discussion will be moved to the Overflow-page, where the discussion can continue between interested parties.

If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the deletion warning template please remove the {{SNRV|X}} at the top of the discussion section. This will show that there is active conversation again.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list.

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Suggestions

Fire

Timestamp:	Lexicality 00:56, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Type:	Mechanics Addition
Scope:	Everyone.
Description:	The idea came to me while I was in the car. "Hmm, what if you could set things on fire?" Barricades must have 5 fuel cans poured over them, and then have a flare gun fired at them by a character over level 30. This means that a flare has a maximum chance of 7.5% of hitting the barricades and igniting them, a 52.5% chance of flying harmlessly over the barricade, where it will act like an ordinary flare fired from outside, and a minimum of a 40% chance of hitting the wall and blinding the firer. (Blinded means that for 10 AP; the map is white,the building description is You cannot see. and the target list has only 'wildly' as an option. Every action made has a 50% chance of succeeding and a 50% chance of the character falling over and hurting themselves using the same rules as free running into ruins.) Regardless of result, the people in the building will be notified of the flare being fired. If the shot succeeds, the barricades will ignite, setting the building on fire. The inside and outside building descriptions will be changed. The resulting explosion from the fuel will kill the shooter, destroy any remaining fuel cans they have, and the resulting concussion will strip them of all AP, require them to spend an extra 5AP to stand up and set them on fire. If the character is under level 30, the hit rate for the flare will be 1%, as if they did not possess basic firearms training. In this event, the chance for blinding yourself will increase to 46.5%. A lot of effort with many penalties, but a fairly good result. Burning barricades do not have hit rates halved, but will set anyone who spends more than 3AP near them on fire. You can be near a barricade by either interacting with it or by being inside the building. Climbing over a burning barricade does not set you on fire, but does count as one of the 3AP. The burning building will be full of smoke, having the same effect as the building being dark. However, as the barricades are illuminated, the hit-rate on them are not affected. If a character is in the building and has any kind of book in their inventory, they may throw it onto the fire for the cost of 1AP. (Ideally any interaction with the barricade apart from a successful extinguish would set the character on fire, while being in the building for more than 3AP without wearing a gas mask would give the character carbon monoxide poisoning, removing 1HP every AP until they leave the building. However, this would make an already complex suggestion more complicated.) When a character is on fire, they will lose 1HP per AP, as with infection, however, it cannot be cured with conventional healing methods. (Meaning that a character may remain indefinitely on fire, as a sort of badge of honour.) The line "They are on fire" will be added to the character's profile, and zombies/dead bodies will be singled out as in There are n zombies here. m are on fire and x are charred. and There are n dead bodies here. m are smouldering gently and x are charred. The only way to extinguish a burning character/barricade is to either hit them with a fire axe, or to pour holy water over them. (Holy water being a new weapon findable in churches and cathedrals which has a 100% hit rate and does 0 damage. It will also clean fuel stains of anything. ) If a character is wearing fuel soaked clothing when they are ignited they will get the message Your fuel soaked clothes explode into flames, causing you 5 damage. otherwise receiving Your clothes catch fire, causing 1 damage. either way, the character will then be notified that they will lose 1HP per AP and the ways to extinguish themselves. Characters hit with flare guns whilst wearing fuel soaked clothing will also be set on fire. A survivor who dies while on fire will rise as still on fire, however a zombie will rise as charred, to prevent an endless loop of irritation. Char has no effect other than in building and profile descriptions, and is lost upon revival. Burning barricades will retain their levels (unless knocked down) until they are extinguished, when they drop to very strongly barricaded, covering the building and extinguisher in soot. Extinguishing can only take place from the inside. Summary New statuses Burning; lose 1HP per AP until extinguished. This status continues from human to zombie, but a zombie who dies from the status is simply charred. Blind; cannot see for 10AP and all actions have a 50% chance of injury. Can be cured by FAKs. Charred: Zombie is marked as 'charred' in building and character descriptions. Status is lost when revived. New Weapons Holy Water; 100% hit rate, can clean soot/fuel off clothes and extinguish fires New building descriptions Sooty: The walls are caked in soot from a fire. Smokey: The building is full of smoke, making it hard to see anything other than the merrily blazing barricades. New Game Mechanics Barricades and people may be set on fire if they are thoroughly soaked in fuel. Books may be thrown onto burning barricades. New Flavour Person threw fuel over the barricades. Person fired a flare gun over the top of the barricades. Person fired a flare gun into the wall, blinding themselves. Person set fire to the barricades, killing themselves in the process. Person extinguished [the barricades/Person]. Person caught fire. Person threw a book onto the fire. Person fell over in their blindness, arms flailing wildly. Person [fired/swung] [item] wildly, managing to miss hitting anything. There are n zombies here. m are on fire and x are charred. There are n dead bodies here. m are smouldering gently and x are charred.

Discussion (Fire)

God damn it this is a terrible suggestion. Can someone fix the format that got f'd up? As far as critique: This is terribly overpowered, and makes no sense. Why should the shooter have to be over level 30? Where is the Holy Water found, at what percentage, and what encumberance? Why is it Holy Water? Why do you think its a good idea to screw with peoples AP? This is over the top grieftastic and sucktastic and STFUastic. Read the do's and do nots, and then try an idea that doesn't add items that make no sense and game mechanics that are silly and all sorts of game breakingly grief tactics, and the fact that half of this is made up of dupes of previous suggestions. - tylerisfat 02:27, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Reformatted the suggestion to remove all those extra headlines. I think it was screwing up the page. Also, FIRE BAD.--– Nubis ^NWO 02:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I wrote a bunch of stuff about how awful this suggestion is, but there was an edit conflict and lost it all, so I'll just say this: Next time try doing your "thinking" on the toilet and concentrate on driving.--Pesatyel 04:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I can only hope your driving is not as bad as this suggestion.--Honestmistake 08:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I skimmed this suggestion. Isn't fire on FS? And Holy Water? Spam. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 09:40, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

As Iscariot. Fire suggestions are quite common. Another thing-if you are going to use water, just call it water. Holy Water puts religion into the game, which no-one wants. Linkthewindow ^Talk 10:13, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, so it sucks. I personally thought it was kinda cool. So, since it's clearly not tenable, should I just delete it, or does it stay up here for a while for other people to mock? --Lexi^cali^ty 10:42, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

It's contentious whether something should stay up. I'd say leave it, it'll be cycled after a while automatically and in the meantime serves as an example to newer users as to what not to suggest and why. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 11:00, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

tl;dr.--xoxo 11:58, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

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Soccer Ball

Timestamp:	A Big F'ing Dog 21:53, 24 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Novelty
Scope:	The map
Description:	Before I start let me say that this is a serious suggestion even though it might seem humorous. What I'm going to suggest is ridiculous and not in genre one bit. This is more of an interesting way of experimenting with how the Urban dead population reacts to a silly addition than any sort of change for the game itself. I suggest that Kevan place a soccer ball somewhere outdoors in Malton. The soccer ball can't be attacked or picked up. However if you're in the room with it you choose which direction to kick it in (N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW). Kicking it would cost 1AP and move the ball 1 space in that direction. Both zombies and suvivors can kick the ball. The current position of the ball would be added to the game stats. Perhaps teams would form to compete moving the ball to different destinations, or "goals." I'm not sure I'd make a point of playing with the ball for long but like where's george it'd be interesting to see where it is.

Discussion (Soccer Ball)

Ok, I'm alright with this. I don't think it should be able to go indoors, however. - tylerisfat 23:55, 24 October 2008 (BST)

I don't think it would be implemented, But it is an interesting idea nevertheless. _■^■ 04:08, 25 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah, indoors is silly but yeah could be interesting. Sort of stupid though...i mean isn't there games like this somewhere?--xoxo 04:27, 25 October 2008 (BST)

If this is "ridiculous and not in genre one bit" then WHY would you suggest it?--Pesatyel 04:37, 25 October 2008 (BST)

That is an AMAZING suggestion. I would really vote keep on this. Just make sure it can only go outdoors. Also, make it so if it hits the W border, it adds +1 to a tally on the stats page under 'Goals on the West Border', and visa versa for the East border, and if that happens, the ball resets in the middle of Ridleybank or something. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:18, 25 October 2008 (BST)

OOOOOMMGGGGGGG I love this idea SO much. And yes, implement Charlies idea, imagine it....would be loads of fun even if it just happened for a week or so. Maybe Kevan could implement it while the 2010 World Cup is on?--CyberRead240 05:27, 25 October 2008 (BST)

And no, don't let it go inside--CyberRead240 05:31, 25 October 2008 (BST)

I would vote Keep only if 1) the ball was only in-game for a day (like April 1st) or for a week, as a kind of annual special event. 2)It be called a football since Malton is presumably in the U.K. --Silisquish 05:39, 25 October 2008 (BST)

I second the idea for implementing this for the 2010 World Cup, but probably only then unless everyone wants to keep it. --Mithos Yggdrasill 17:11, 25 October 2008 (BST)

Gotta keep this suggestion alive, if you don't want, Dog, let me put it forward, I have plans for this 'game'. Mwaha. But yeah, I really think adding a goal system, maybe even a passing system (across multiple blocks) and some sort of real-time tackling system would make this a keeper for a World Cup event or something. Galaxy has a good idea with the random kicking W or E depending on whether you are a zombie/human. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 01:11, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Would vote keep. Possible other formulations include making it an attackable object such that when zombies attack it, it stands a chance of going NW, W, or SW, and when survivors attack it it stands a chance of going NE, E, or SE. Thus making it a zombie v. survivor game. -- Galaxy125 05:48, 25 October 2008 (BST)

I was thinking similar. Maybe once a year we could have a week long zombie v humans football match, where the opposing sides let down their hair and just have a bit of fun....killing is still possible though, to gain an advantage over the other side--CyberRead240 05:52, 25 October 2008 (BST)

A zombie apocalypse is serious business, not a ball game. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 11:14, 25 October 2008 (BST)

Just like the interwebs? It is a browser game. Opting-In or Opting-Out of updates is the way to go.--CyberRead240 15:53, 25 October 2008 (BST)

Co-ordinated with the football season or major competitions and it might be fun. I would however make its inclusion optional... ie you can choose to see and receive news on the "ball" much like you can choose to ignore feeding groans and radios! That way those who don't care or who actively disagree with its inclusion don't have to be bothered with it.--Honestmistake 15:50, 25 October 2008 (BST) Would vote keep as well, although I would prefer if it is a seasonal thing (World Cup, etc.)

OK first of all maybe it is just me but I had to click on the edit link down by Wan Yao's suggestion to get to the right section here to edit. (all of the other edit links took me to parts of the FIRE suggestion. WTF?) Anyone else having that problem? I don't have the time to investigate right now. Second, why not just make a character called SOCCER BALL or FOOTBALL and leave it outside. Then when the "teams" find him/it they have to kill/PK it to score. Make rules like you can only use a knife or pipe or something to attack. Then revive it and move it for the next game. Or leave it a zombie but get enough XP to get lurching gait so it can move a bit further. Organize a kick off time (say always 45 minutes after server reset) and any attacks before then DQ a team. Make it so "games" are only on Monday and Thurs. (or something) that way there is enough time to save AP and relocate the ball. --– Nubis ^NWO 02:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Fixed the problem - fire suggestion was screwing things up.--– Nubis ^NWO 02:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Let's start with something simple. There is no such thing as soccer. The game you stupid fucking Yanks insist on calling 'soccer' is actually called football. The game you call football is actually a badly played version of rugby, except with the rules changed so it's easy, simple, allows you to wear armour like nancies and lets you stop to have rests every 15 seconds. If you insist on making this suggestion it will be entitled football.

Secondly, fuck right off. How out of genre do you want? Bored with the game? Two choices, create your own fun without suggesting crap that the rest of us have to be involved in, or quit the fucking game. No doubt someone will mention the football game in The Great War and how that was 'out of genre' yet still happened, I'd point anyone who said that to the rest of the wars in history where football wasn't played. Just because something happened once out of thousands of times does not mean we should replicate it. If we are, I seem to recall zombies shooting guns in Day of The Dead, any of you fuckers going to vote keep on that? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 09:51, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

gulp.--xoxo 12:00, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Remember the Easter Eggs? They were totally in genre hey.......This should be a one day thing to co-incide with world cup 2010. For fun, for a week. Normal life can exist around it.--CyberRead240 13:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Do you remember when easter eggs came back this year? Oh that's right they didn't, probably because Kevan realised how stupid is was for a load of survivors in the apocalypse to go egg hunting! -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:38, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Whenever people are cooped up for several years they'll find ways to amuse themselves. Possibly ways that don't deal with zombie combat. A semi-organized game of association football is only not-in-genre because most movies deal with recent zombie outbreaks rather than in the years following. -- Galaxy125 16:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I like it! Good flavour and fun. It doesn't interrupt the main game too much either. Iscariot, not everything needs to be "in genre". For a fun thing in the game, It would be excellent. I support that it shouldn't go indoors.--Drawde ^{Talk To Me! DORIS Яed Яum Defend Ridleybonk! I know Nothing!} 15:39, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I really like this idea but I agree it should only be a certain time of year and shouldn't go indoors. -- Jelly Otter 15:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

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Beer/Fuel Stains+Flare Gun=Bonfire!

Timestamp:	Kolechovski 23:26, 23 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	New attack
Scope:	fuel/alcohol-soaked clothes
Description:	When you attack a survivor or zombie with beer/wine bottles, their clothes may become alcohol-stained if the PR suggestion to do so is implemented. Currently, fuel can hits may cause fuel stains on clothes. If a survivor or zombie is shot with a flare while their clothes are soaked, they will ignite, receiving 5 damage points immediately due to the flare-up, in addition to the Flare shot. Flare damage can be reduced by Flak Jackets, but the fire that ensues has no reduction. While on fire, every action made by the victim will deal 1 damage point until they put it out (this stacks with infection). While on fire, the victim has an additional option to “Put out the fire” via the stop, drop, and roll method, at a cost of 1 AP. After the fire is extinguished, the burnt clothing falls away. If a burning victim directly interacts with another soaked person (melee attack), the other person will ignite. Items can’t be used by survivors while on fire, though standard movement and attacks are still optional. Those who drop dead from the fire will remain burning as a dead body, but unignited dead bodies can’t catch fire since you can’t interact with them.

Discussion (Beer/Fuel Stains+Flare Gun=Bonfire!)

Have you ever tried lighting Budweiser? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 23:36, 23 October 2008 (BST)

Eh. I find a problem with people purposely lighting up, and then continuosly healing and meleeing survivors in a buildings. - tylerisfat 23:43, 23 October 2008 (BST)

no. overpowered and also not realistic. if this were realistic, every time i dropped a smoke on my clothes that i drunkenly spilled beer or vodka on :P i'd have gone a la michael jackson... and, last i checked, i don't look like diana ross. --WanYao 04:38, 24 October 2008 (BST)

No. Overpowered-grieftastic-dupe. _■^■ 04:22, 25 October 2008 (BST)

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Dragging Corpses

Timestamp:	Mithos Yggdrasill 22:28, 23 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Survivors, may cross over to zeds
Description:	An ability that allows survivors (and zeds, if the skill crosses over) to drag a corpse to another square with them for, say, a 2AP penalty to movement. This could be used to drag bodies to where they'll be less of a threat when they ?rise, or just for getting a buddy to a revive point faster. If a corpse is on your contact list, you can select them specifically to drag, either that or the ability ONLY works on people on your Contacts list. The corpse isn't damaged in any way when transported. Of course, since this is my first time trying this "Suggestion" thing, I'm willing, nay, eager, to accept constructive criticism. EDIT: Nevermind, go ahead and delete this idea. Several people have pointed out how it's a "pied piper".

Discussion (Dragging Corpses)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 4 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:43, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Pied piper. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 23:00, 23 October 2008 (BST)

What does that mean?--Pesatyel 04:17, 24 October 2008 (BST)

A griefer's dream. People put enemies on their contacts lists, too. And I know I've seen at least one suggestion like this before. --Jen 23:37, 23 October 2008 (BST)

This is an old dupe, no need even for a link, its on the FAQ and frequently suggested. - tylerisfat 23:44, 23 October 2008 (BST)

This is, as stated, suggested a lot. Here is why it is bad:

• Allows a zerge character to act as a taxi for "real" characters, saving their AP.
• Can be used to fuck with other players. Imagine YOU log in expecting to be in Caiger mall to find your somewhere else, several suburbs away. Or, worse, dragging you into some place that you will not survive.--Pesatyel 04:17, 24 October 2008 (BST)

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First Aid helps you find/assemble FAKs in Hospitals

Timestamp:	WanYao 04:39, 22 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	search rates & skill buff
Scope:	survivors
Description:	Nerfing mall FAK rates was a great idea which I myself and others were screaming for on these pages a little while ago. It's a great change. However, most of us were also calling for a parallel increase in FAK search rates in Hospitals. This doesn't appear to have happened, thus IMNSHO FAKs and healing and newbie Scientists have been nerfed a bit too much. Therefore, I'd like to propose that characters possessing First Aid gain a search % buff in Hospitals, in addition to its normal benefits. The exact amount is up for discussion, but I am thinking 10% right now: Hospitals should never be 50% like Malls were, not even close... Also, this could require Surgery, not just First Aid... But I actually wanna help newbies and Scientists a little with this. Discuss.

Discussion (First Aid buffs FAK searches in Hospitals)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 4 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:42, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know. This doesn't really seem that necessary. Malls weren't that huge of a FAK source for most people because not a whole lot get Bargain Hunting or Shopping very quickly and even when they do, I don't know of many who depended on malls for their main FAK source. The change was really only an inconvenience.--SirArgo ^Talk 04:45, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Nup. You just need to get out of the mindset that FAKs are a dime a dozen, now they are something of a rare commodity.--xoxo 05:40, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Argo... I relied on Malls a lot for FAKs. I mean how can you turn your nose at nearly 1 in 2 odds??? And I am pretty sure most people played the same way. Which is why this change was so welcome, overall... Especially considering that FAKs are easily the most powerful pro-survivor item after syringes. Now, J3D might have a point... However, the new drugstore nerf really does make survivors a lot less survivable... And it actually sorta buffs trenchcoating because "FAKing your way up the ladder" just got a lot less efficient... Though, if anything, in practice I think this is going to favour PKers more than anyone... Which is interesting: the last two big updates ended up being PKer buffs... It's also given a wonderful new idea for a death culting strategy, hmmmmmmnnnn............ --WanYao 05:56, 22 October 2008 (BST)

I don't think it benefits trenchies, surely now they'll recognise the importance of FAKKing? --xoxo 06:02, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Malls really where a great source of FAK's and reducing their role as port of first (often only) call can only be a good thing. However my recent searches seem to suggest that Hospitals might actually be getting worse too. Yesterday i spent well over 20AP in an unpowered hospital with no success and my other survivor only found 2 in a powered hospital and a whole days AP. Could be bad luck I know but still...--Honestmistake 08:22, 22 October 2008 (BST)

I think that's bad luck; my survivor spent 30+aps searching a autorepair and got nothing. Less than 10 ap on a hospital and I got 2 FAKs --Silisquish 01:44, 23 October 2008 (BST)

Wan, I think this is a good idea. It promotes spreading away from Malls. I think Kevan has upped the search rate in PDs recently to do the same thing, so you would be promoting a game change in accordance with Kevan's vision. If I am right, of course. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:58, 22 October 2008 (BST)

I'd say no to this on grounds that yesterday I searched an unpowered hospital and was getting a consistent 1 in 3 success rate. Search rates always fluctuate after an update, they need a lot longer to properly settle down before we start suggesting ideas related to it. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 09:32, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Heh... when I read "assemble FAKs" I thought you were going to suggest something like manufacturing a FAK for 10aps, sort of like manufacturing syringes. Anyways, I'm undecided. Healers already get a buff that was underappreciated: Surgery. Maybe now to counterbalance the lower search rates more people will have to go to hospitals to get healed for that 50% extra FAK effectiveness instead of healers coming to them and burning an extra FAK to heal a recently revived bodybuilder to full health. Also, since Kevan would want to control and tweak FAK/syringe search rates to balance the game better, if characters with First Aid get a boost in hospitals, he might use that boost as the base FAK search rate (since almost everyone has that skill), thus nerfing the % rate of those without said skill; so if he saw that hospital FAK search rates are too low he would boost it so people with the First Aid search bonus would get a search rate that he'd deem appropriate, (just like when determining syringe search rates he might assume that most NTs will be powered). So this would effectively be a nerf to people without First Aid...hhmmm does that last part make any sense? --Silisquish 01:52, 23 October 2008 (BST)

As I see it, First Aid would be improved by this. I'm sure Kevan realizes the search rates might need to be altered now, but this would be a good way to do it.--Pesatyel 05:50, 23 October 2008 (BST)

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Players inside barricaded buildings can listen to others smashing it

Timestamp:	Janjones 01:01, 21 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Role Playing, Flavor
Scope:	All players and classes
Description:	I suggest that players inside a barricaded building could listen the noise made by players smashing and tearing down the barricades. Whenever someone attacks the barricades from outside (independent if the barricade is damaged or not), the people inside should receive a message like "You listen something pounding the barricades", just to add some sense of terror and expectation to survivors inside a building.Of course the message could be disabled just like Feeding Groans, flares etc. In order to avoid spam, there should be some kind of percentage to determine if the blow will produce noise or not (something between 15% and 25%, the same chances of damaging the barricades).

Discussion (Players inside barricaded buildings can listen to others smashing it)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 3 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:40, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it makes some sense. But it should be a precentage chance to hear I think. I mean think about it. Sure, you can switch it off, but that would kinda defeat the purpose. But if you have it on that would be a LOT of spam in heavy attack areas.--Pesatyel 01:55, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Good point about the percentage. Janjones 02:30, 21 October 2008 (BST)

What about people tearing down the barricades from the inside?--xoxo 07:19, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Given that a maxed out zombie can easily burn 50AP and not get through EHB's you are inviting a whole lot of SPAM and probably server lag. Also consider this... If a survivor is active he already has a chance to spot that his cades are falling and thus that there is an active zed outside this would just make it even easier to foil his dinner plans. To even attempt to balance this for the zed side you would have to notify them that they heard sounds of frantic searching coming from inside (not implausible) so that they have an idea how much activity is going on in the building they are attacking. --Honestmistake 08:49, 21 October 2008 (BST)

X Ray vision. No. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 10:49, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Technically, but it is logical. You don't think people would hear someone banging on the walls/doors? And there IS precedent in the game.--Pesatyel 04:15, 22 October 2008 (BST)

If survivors can hear people smashing cades from the outside then I'll be wanting groans to be heard inside buildings. You can't hear groans inside buildings, therefore no barricading noises. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 09:34, 22 October 2008 (BST)

That was a novelty addition, don't forget. I think this suggestion may be supported more if it were limited soley to humans/zombies tearing down barricades from the inside. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:06, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Perhaps the spam level could be reduced by making it so that only noticable drops in barricade levels (VSB to QSB2+ for example) can be heard? --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 09:18, 22 October 2008 (BST)

None of this addresses the problems with this type of suggestion. The main effect of this is to clearly flag something which is noticable to an active survivor anyway. Basically if it happened more than 5 minutes ago it is old news and a bit pointless to most players, if you are on-line and don't notice the cades dropping you deserve to die anyway and spoon feeding you the vital news that something is trying to get in will just make it that little bit harder for a zombie to get in. Not only this but if you are in a well defended stronghouse which zeds keep trying to get into you would be able to spot when they are most active and log in accordingly... what are you going to do to counter-balance that potentially zombie raping advantage? It may make sense but it would provide a very one-sided advantage, in any event seeing shadows inside lit buildings makes sense, smelling large crowds inside cramped insanitary buildings and hearing the screams of the dying are also realistic but potentially unbalancing features that are not in game... where do we stop? --Honestmistake 09:50, 22 October 2008 (BST)

I'm gonna sing the DOOM song, DOOM-DOOM-DOOM-DOOM... --Silisquish 01:38, 23 October 2008 (BST)

Dupe. Many times over.--Kolechovski 23:11, 23 October 2008 (BST)

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Expanding the search button

Timestamp:	KarandaDemon 20:08, 20 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Slight improvement to existing game function.
Scope:	All players and classes.
Description:	I suggest that a new expansion for the 'Search the area' button be added. This will, at the cost of 5AP or more (I haven't decided yet, as I think nothing definite should be established yet) allow the player to 'Search Thoroughly' in a building and will add a 10-20% chance (added to the exisiting percentage chance of finding something while searching) that the player will find an item. NOTE: Actual number changes aren't definite, so any suggestions are welcome in discussion.

Discussion (Expanding the search button)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 5 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:37, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Nice idea, but the numbers will need tweaked a little for sure. I'm not one of the search odds crunchers but it does seem a bit high to me. They can give you a bit more help than I can. I'm more of a mechanics and hit rates guy. -- Cheese 20:10, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Hmm, well, I haven't given definite numbers, because I ain't no cruncher either. I should outline that in the description as up for discussion. Just to be clear. :) --KarandaDemon 20:19, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Let see. Um. 10% chance of finding something (Random current rate) compared to 30% at 5 times the cost? 0.9 chance of finding nothing 5 times is about 0.59 (O.9 to the power of 5.) So the chance of finding something is 41% as opposed to 1x30% chance of finding something through this proposal. I think. Someone want to check that? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:33, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Expected return for 5 AP spent searching for a 10% item, with no other items checked in your preferences is (1 x 0.9^5 x 0.1^0 x 0) + (5 x 0.9^4 x 0.1^1 x 1) + (10 x 0.9^3 x 0.1^2 x 2) + (10 x 0.9^2 x 0.1^3 x 3) + (5 x 0.9^1 x 0.1^4 x 4) + (1 x 0.9^0 x 0.1^5 x 5) = .50 items. Or the same as .1 (items/AP) x 5AP. No special voodoo needed. Expected return for 5 AP spent searching thoroughly for a 30% item is (1 x 0.7^1 x 0.3^0 x 0) + (1 x 0.7^0 x 0.3^1 x 1) = .30 items. Or the same as .3 (items/5AP) x 5AP. Again, no special voodoo needed. Under this suggestion for 10% items, searching thoroughly 10 times versus spending 50 AP searching would yield (on average) two fewer items. And that discrepancy will only grow as the search likelihood increases. The break-even point, incidentally, is where A = (A + B) / C. Under the above numbers (B = .2, C = 5) we can solve for A as .05. That means items found with search rates of less than 5% will be found more often when you search thoroughly. Again, that is just for the given numbers. -- Galaxy125 21:02, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Man. Thats cool! --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:03, 20 October 2008 (BST)

So AP-wise it would be a better idea just to search normally? -- Cheese 21:07, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah, obviously, apart from hyper rare below 5% find items. Pay attention cheese! There may be a test. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:09, 20 October 2008 (BST)

I'm not stupid. =p I did pass Higher maths. I'm just too lazy to read. -- Cheese 21:11, 20 October 2008 (BST)

See what happens when you eat your Wheaties? Of course, my above numbers assume that you're searching for consumables. FAKs, etc. Things where you're dedicating 5 AP to the search rather than stopping once you find one. -- Galaxy125 21:13, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Yep. After all. How many flak jackets do you need? And why do i have more than an average number of legs. I may have andered off the point somewhat. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:15, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Quick vote? I think I also forgot to mention that the 'Search thoroughly' idea would exist alongside the existing Search function, if it were ever to come into effect.--KarandaDemon 22:53, 20 October 2008 (BST)

Quick vote? Are you reading this? With what Galaxy says is this is a silly suggestion. Basically any further skills or changes in how searching happens need to be thought about a while to make things work. This will not help or work, and is not worth the time it would take to code it. - tylerisfat 23:23, 20 October 2008 (BST)

According to your logic, the 20AP syringe manufacture is a bad idea, yet Kevan put it into the game? I believe this is an alright idea. With the perfect numbers, it could be accepted. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:10, 22 October 2008 (BST)

No, those are two totally different things. Adding a fixed cost to manufacture something against the risk of getting the same item cheaper but with no guarantees is different then creating another search button that searches at a different rate, which is not actually any higher, but costs more. Its worthless, and sucks ap with no gain. - tylerisfat 20:46, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Sorry, you are right. But even still, people vote on the suggestion, not the amount of time it takes to code. It's Kevan's job to worry about that. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:22, 25 October 2008 (BST)

The comment about the coding was not about whether i would vote kill or keep, but that it was such a worthless thing that it wouldn't be worth coding it even if it was voted keep. AKA not worth the time, because it creates no difference. - tylerisfat 08:13, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Manufacture used to be better than the search rate. Then the search rate got tons of small boosts and a few notably massive ones.--Karek^maps?! 05:25, 25 October 2008 (BST)

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XP for AP

Timestamp:	Serpentine Green 16:36, 20 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	New game concept
Scope:	All players
Description:	I hope this won't get shot down just because it involves changing the crucial 50 AP max per day but remember that Kevan states "There may eventually be character skills which modify the maximum AP and its recharge rate, but the basic starting-character settings will remain the same". Before anyone says DUPE I am aware that something similar has been discussed before. What I'm proposing, however, is by no means a way of permanently upping your daily AP quota. This will merely be a means of cashing in unwanted XP for AP at a ratio of 20 to 1. Here goes: Once per day, you may exchange 200 XP for 10 AP. Veteran players will have some reward for cashing in their surplus XP. 5000 XP will get whittled down fairly quickly if a player chooses to cash in 200 per day. Soon we'll all have the same amount of XP. Players can opt for believable character specialisation. While previously a military character, for example, will max out their military skills and then proceed onto the all the others (thereby creating a grunt that knows surgery and advanced laboratory operation) with this game mechanic in place a character may choose to expend XP on additional AP rather than skills that they do not want or are playing against type. In game terms, this new system can be described as "Concentration" to perform the skills you have learnt with greater efficiency. As you become more experienced (acquire more XP) you become more efficient at performing actions (more AP). I suggest the option only becomes available after reaching level 10 when you will have a defined character. The option to expend XP on AP would be available as a "Concentrate" button on the "Buy Skills" page.

Discussion (XP for AP)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 3 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:35, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Pretty much any suggestion that involves AP for XP training gets shot down-as it gives older players a huge advantage over newbies (when they choose to "cash in" their XP)Linkthewindow ^Talk 21:29, 20 October 2008 (BST)

I certainly agree that for a period of time, this mechanic is going to heavily benefit those players that have racked up a substantial amount of XP. However, within a few months everyone will have used up their bonus AP from their massive XP surplus and we will all be at the same level of XP, all attaining our bonus AP at a similar rate. This mechanic fixes the infinite XP problem as no one will want to hold onto it any more. If we still want a ranking system, we can have the character level up each time they use the function. That means the highest ranked XP player will become the highest levelled player. --Serpentine Green 11:56, 21 October 2008 (BST)

One of my 3 characters could trade in all 20,000 XP and gain nearly 2 weeks AP in one go.... how exactly is that fair?--Honestmistake 00:07, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Actually, it says 200 XP once per day.--Pesatyel 02:08, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Oops, my bad... still not a good mechanic given how many players have 10,000+ XP banked. Remember too that those extra AP could potentially be turned into extra XP thus fueling even more bonus AP!--Honestmistake 08:57, 21 October 2008 (BST)

A person who has acquired 10,000 XP will have 50 days of +10AP per day. If you use your entire 500 bonus AP to gain more XP by, for a survivor example, attacking Zeds with the fireaxe at 40% (i.e. 1.2 XP per AP) you will gain 600XP from that extra 10 per day. This can converted into just 3 extra days of 10 AP so we see heavily diminishing returns.--Serpentine Green 11:56, 21 October 2008 (BST)

I don't see a problem with giving perks to higher level players, to an extent. Why not? Because it would hurt new players? Maybe. The thing here though is maybe it should include a penalty of some kind.--Pesatyel 02:08, 21 October 2008 (BST)

I agree. Veteran players deserve something other than recognition for their dedication. I’d like to point out that I have only been playing Urban Dead for a few weeks and my highest level character is at level 9. As a newbie, I do not consider this game play mechanic unfair any more than higher level characters being able to inflict more damage, have more HP, a greater hit percentage etc, etc.--Serpentine Green 11:56, 21 October 2008 (BST)

I disagree. I think veterans should only get recognition. And I'd like to point out that I have 5 maxed out character with over 15k XP banked total. No Uses for Excess XP, please. Though I have to thank you for finally getting me to write that thing :). --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 19:22, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Ok, recognition. How? If "game affecting" XP expenditure is bad, why not other kinds?--Pesatyel 04:23, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Midianian, your article is thought provoking and had me considering this suggestion further. This game mechanic does not lead you to choose XP gain over tactics. Where a player has acquired all the skills they want, the only way to spend XP is now to gain AP. If they use the tactically pointless hurt-heal method of XP gain, garnering 20XP would require a minimum 10AP (using fire-axe, searching and using FAKS- I’ve not worked this out exactly) and reward you with 1AP. Its simple economics- there’s no point in using AP to acquire XP to gain back AP because the returns are so small. AP would be much better spent used tactically with the extra AP an occasional bonus. Bragging rights are preserved by Levelling Up each time the function is used. See below a consideration for how to deal with the 50,000+ players.--Serpentine Green 08:39, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Thanks for reading it. There actually is a point to using AP now to gain a smaller amount of AP that can be used later. Most of the players (well, survivors at least) play rather stationary, ie. they pick a suburb and stay there, come rain or sunshine. It's the sunshine part that causes the problems with this. Since there are no enemies around, there's no "smart" thing to use your AP on, so why not put it in store even if it is at a lossy ratio? It's still better than using the AP on "worthless" stuff like RP. That's partly what items are about. You use AP now to stock up, so that later on when you need the items, you won't have to. However, there's a limit to how much you can carry, but there isn't a limit to how much XP you can gather "for a rainy day".

I didn't mean they should be able to spend XP to get recognition. This is recognition enough (in my opinion) for people with lots of XP. If they want more recognition, they should do something worthy of recognition.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't nearly as bad as some of the other suggestions of this type, but I just think XP shouldn't be usable for something like this. --Midianian^|T|DS|C:RCS| 14:43, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Hmmm... I think this might possibly work. But someone with 20,000xp would have 100 days of +10 aps. Still a little bit unfair. What if the skill needed to transfer xp to ap cost half your current xp? (Even if you had 2 xp and bought it, it wouldn't matter since you still need to spend 200xp to get the benefits of the skill) --Silisquish 07:07, 21 October 2008 (BST)

Ok let’s try this. The function would require 200 XP or 10% of your total XP – whichever is the greater. The following is a list of starting XP with corresponding days of +10AP: (50,000XP: 40 days); (20,000XP: 31 days); (10,000XP: 25 days); (2000XP: 10 days). This means in 40 days, we’d all have the same XP. If we implement the level up system everytime the function is used, the higher XP players will be higher levels but the gap will have closed considerably.--Serpentine Green 08:39, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Thatcould work too, but it's not quite what I had in mind; what I was trying to say was, to even be able to press that "convert 200xp to 10ap" button, you would have to buy a skill beforehand, and this skill would not cost a set amount of xp but a percentage of your current xp.

Those with tons of xp would benefit greatly from this xp to ap conversion ability but would lose much xp to buy the required skill for it, and those that pay nearly no xp to buy the skill, still won't benefit from having bought the skill as you need to spend excess xp to get extra aps. --Silisquish 00:50, 23 October 2008 (BST)

No. Once people reach level 41 or 43 or wherever they choose to stop they should be no longer motivated by xp. this encourages trenchcoatery, people can play however they like but don't expect me to endorse a suggestion that encourages such a style of play.--xoxo 12:51, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Ouch, you make a very strong case... --Silisquish 00:50, 23 October 2008 (BST)

It is bad why?--Pesatyel 05:55, 23 October 2008 (BST)

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Advanced Diagnosis

Timestamp:	Srdestructiveche 03:26, 16 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	A sub-skill of surgery, players with this skill will know how to operate advanced hospital equipment and will be able to detect infection in a hospital with power.

Discussion (Advanced Diagnosis)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 6 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:53, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Why not just get whatever skill it is that lets you see infection? Some zombie one i think...--xoxo 04:43, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I don't think that carries over if you are a survivor. Linkthewindow ^Talk 06:45, 16 October 2008 (BST)

It doesn't but I am almost certain that this is a dupe anyway.--Honestmistake 11:52, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Oh yeah you're right it doesnt. Still you might as well just fak the ones on 29, 24 or lower, chances are they're infected and if they aren't they could do with a faking.--xoxo 12:03, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I'm under appreciated on this page. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:10, 16 October 2008 (BST)

hug?--Silisquish 03:37, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Only if you're pretty :D -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:54, 17 October 2008 (BST)

Big Hug...--Honestmistake 11:22, 17 October 2008 (BST)

You look like a hobbit, so sod off :P -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:54, 17 October 2008 (BST)

I don't know, you try to be nice and what does it get you? *bites the troll in the ankles and runs off to rummage through someone elses belongings for a snack*--Honestmistake 13:00, 17 October 2008 (BST)

It's pretty rare for someone to have an infection and not have at least some HP missing.--William Told 21:18, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Yeah, so they get FAK-ed pretty quick anyway. This suggestion is a bit redundant :|. Besides, it's already a dupe. Linkthewindow ^Talk 21:40, 16 October 2008 (BST)

To be honest... with the much needed nerf to Mall FAK rates... I'd like to see something done to beef up Hospitals a little now... And/or Doctory skills... However, yup, this is a dupe and not a good idea... Basically, if someone is injured, heal them... Then you know if they were infected ;P --WanYao 21:39, 18 October 2008 (BST)

Surgery already exists, that makes them basically as efficient as the old malls were, they really don't need more benefits.--Karek^maps?! 23:09, 18 October 2008 (BST)

Wan, some people report a rise in hospital find rates over at the Search Odds page. Ether way, the find rate for malls is now 1:4 (the same as hospitals.) Linkthewindow ^Talk 00:39, 19 October 2008 (BST)

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Blood-curdling Scream

Timestamp:	Midnight Reviver 04:58, 15 October 2008 (BST)
Type:	Flavor text
Scope:	Survivors low on HP, newbies looking for people to heal, baby-z's looking for a coup d'grace,
Description:	I forgot if this was mentioned last year, but what about an announcement in buildings or on the street to the nearest 50 people when a human-player is brought down to 10 HP or less be it from a zombie attack, infection, or human attack? This will paint a bullseye on the victim as someone that needs immediate healing (or eating for up-and-coming zombies). Alternatively, this also gives humans a slim chance to foil a parachute attempt, a possible PK attempt, or even help a dying survivor with a heal. This pop-up message will give people a chance to jump to someone's aid, save the dying player any AP cost to speak, and even reduce the number of IP hits it takes to heal someone in a crowded building (you can now heal a screaming person via the FAK drop-down menu instead of expanding the name list).

Discussion (Blood-curdling Scream)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active conversation. It is marked for deletion in 6 days.

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:52, 22 October 2008 (BST)

Forgive me if i misunderstand, but this seems to do exactly what diagnosis already does. Furthermore i don't want my page spammed with "john let out a blood curdling scream" "john died" etc etc.--xoxo 07:46, 15 October 2008 (BST)

Dupe - Man i've always wanted to do that... --Iscariot _{but not really}07:49, 15 October 2008 (BST)

How is this a dupe of Diagnosis? This actively notifies everyone present that someone is on low HP, a better dupe would be Feeding Drag as that notifies people that a survivor is on less than 13HP with an in game message!--Honestmistake 14:03, 15 October 2008 (BST)

People's hit points are an in game message. The message (the information of how many hit points they have) is restricted to certain people (purchasers of the skill) in the same way other in game messages are restricted (feeding groans not being available to people in buildings). You people should know by now to trust me when I say it's a dupe. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:11, 15 October 2008 (BST)

I do trust you, thats why I've started following your links. So far you have not dissapointed... I have not seen you make a valid dupe call yet ;)

The HP display is in game info but that is not the same as an in game event message, they are in fact fundamentally different. To argue this is not the case would be to argue that events like character death, body dumps, barricades falling and hell even taking damage are dupes as you already get notified of these things if you bother to look at the screen properly. I mean, well done for trying and everything but do you think you might be able to find a real dupe next time? --Honestmistake 14:23, 15 October 2008 (BST)

Tell you what, you put this up for voting and I'll remove it on the grounds of being a dupe of diagnosis and then you can take it to A/VB and we'll see who wins. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:45, 15 October 2008 (BST)

I'm not putting it up for voting... I'd wold vote kill because it would annoy me as a zed, be ignored by me as a survivor, be bloody useless to almost everyone outside of 2 or 3 very specific cases and in any event it is a partial Dupe of Feeding Drags message!--Honestmistake 14:53, 15 October 2008 (BST)

Iscariots right. Having Diagnosis means that you see the health of 50 people around you, on a street or in a building. The only difference is this would mean that it was free instead of a skill. It dupes the same effect but makes it available to all. Unless its supposed to be a new skill, which makes it the exact thing as diagnosis, but coming from the injured rather then those around. - tylerisfat 21:09, 15 October 2008 (BST)

Nowhere in the suggestion does it say it shows actual health. This suggestion gives an in game message that such and such a survivor has just reached 10HP (or less) By the time the players gets that info it could be several hours old and thus several hours out of date.... Hell most of the time the next entry on your log will probably be that he is dead! As far as I can see the suggestion is for a game mechanic change rather than a new skill.

Diagnose on the other hand is a skill and provides constant, up to date information on every survivor present. It does not give you some sort of alert in your log at any time and does not require a trigger event to function... These are pretty significant differences from the suggestion.

In comparison Feeding drag at least has some similarities. Most notably that it gives all players present a heads-up that a survivor is badly wounded. However that still isn't really a dupe because it operates in a totally different way, namely is triggered by an active players choice/action and is tells you the survivors rough HP's only because they are a function of the skill that triggers the notification. Go read the Dupe rules and tell me where I am wrong because if I am I would really like to stop having this argument.--Honestmistake 22:45, 15 October 2008 (BST)

I'm not saying they're exactly the same, but the serve the same purpose, that of identifying another players wounds. Why would someone need a skill to see how healthy they are if they don't need a skill to see that they dipped below a certain level? We're this in the game, it would significantly reduce the importance of diagnosis, as it serves the same purpose. - tylerisfat 22:59, 15 October 2008 (BST)

They really don't serve the same purpose at all. This would serve to annoy everyone (see Galaxy's comment below) whilst almost never being useful. Diagnosis on the otherhand is one of the most useful skills in the game given that it easily and unfailingly shows you who is hurt and how badly.--Honestmistake 11:59, 16 October 2008 (BST)

Bahaha HM/iscariot's exchange brought me the lulz. <3 talk:Sugg :D --xoxo 04:52, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I second that. --Honestmistake 11:58, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I can see it now. *shoot* *scream* *FAK* *shoot* *scream* *FAK* *shoot* *scream* *FAK* *shoot* *scream* *FAK* ad nauseum. Please, this isn't necessary. Survivors have wonderful in-game communication options, and need reasons to use them. -- Galaxy125 00:17, 16 October 2008 (BST)

For a less spammy and already PRed version, see horrific Handling  Swiers 20:20, 19 October 2008 (BST)

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Suggestions up for voting

Useless use for the Crucifix

Suggestion is up for voting. Discussion moved to here. Linkthewindow ^Talk 11:19, 17 October 2008 (BST) Note: This was William Told's suggestion. He forgot update this section and move the talk across, so I did it for him.

Suggestion:20081023 New Newspaper Article-Length of Pipe is up for voting. Discussion moved to here.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Save Monroeville

Suggestion is up for voting. Discussion moved to here. Linkthewindow ^Talk 11:31, 17 October 2008 (BST) As above, this was Super Nweb's suggestion. He forgot to move the discussion across.