Talk:Suggestions/31st-Oct-2006

NecroTranq Syringe v2

Timestamp:	10:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Type:	New Weapon.
Scope:	Humans.
Description:	In attempting to capture and study zombie specimens, NecroTech scientists have had some limited success in developing a zombie tranquiliser. Prerequisites: Lab Experience (for full effect) Base accuracy: 15% Maximum accuracy: 30% (with Hand-to-Hand Combat) Capacity: 1-use weapon (an attack attempt damages the syringe beyond use, whether or not it was successful) Inventory: 1 space Locations: NecroTech Building (1%; taken from DNA Extractor) Effect: For any attacker, against either a zombie or a human, a succesful attack does 1HP damage to the target and provides 1XP to the attacker. If someone with Lab Experience hits a zombie, there is an additional effect: the cost of movement between squares for that zombie is set to 2AP, until the zombie either gains HP (through any means) or dies. (For a zombie without Lurching Gait, there is no effect.) Notes After Moving To Discussion: Version 1 removed 1HP per AP till the zombie healed or died. It was felt this would harm newbies too much. Version 2 removed Lurching Gait till the zombie healed or died. This clearly nerfed Lurching Gait. Version 3 proposal A: Remove 1HP per AP till the zombie heals or dies. Zombies without Lurching Gait are immune Version 3 proposal B: Remove Lurching Gait till the zombie heals, dies or 10AP have been spent (the drug wears off). What say you? (Please place comments above the voting section) --Funt Solo 21:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Aha, good thing this hidden writing tells me where to leave my message :) Personally for all the effort this item is to find, actually get it to hit the zombie for it to wear of in 10ap or 5 moves walking, seeing as it removes the effect of lurching gait it wouldn't be worth survivors using as it would be too underpowered. If its a 1% chance to find that I think averaghes at 1 every 100ap, then a hit at 30% that I think makes it another chnace to hit at 1 in 3.3 hits so round down. So the chnaces of using this according to my maths would be using 1 in every 103ap roughly, thats into 3 days. (Actually if it was 1 in 3 to fire shouldn't it be 309ap to get one?) Either way for 10ap thats unbalanced. I think the serach odds should be adjusted and that it should be more than 10ap to wear off. --MarieThe Grove 21:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Well, I don't really like The first proposal (if I'm reading it right, it only affects those who have lurching gait, and there shouldn't be an item that punishes people for having a skill), but the second one is great, because it fixes the main thing that was bothering me. The only ideas I would have to improve it is to increase the search percentages, as it's way too hard to find considering it's accuracy and effects. --Reaper with no name 22:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Hmm... Like what Marie said, having to spend 333 AP (that's the actual number) to hit one zombie once with this seems a little...underwhelming. And Mr Yawn...if Body Building makes you live longer, then isn't it nerfing every attack in existence? ;) -- Ashnazg 0933, 1 November 2006 (GMT) Well my maths was closeish then? ;) Its a good idea it just needs to get balanced. --MarieThe Grove 18:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC) Thanks for the feedback - so, increase the find chance (or the hit chance, or both) - and make it nerf Lurching Gait, but only for 10-15AP. And they could spend that attacking cades or whatever - it would have no effect then. Quite like Infection - it makes you think twice about what you do next, but it doesn't kill your options altogether. Now - should I add a new skill for this I wonder... --Funt Solo 23:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC) A new skill under necro equipment? Sounds good. 10-15ap is quite low though but would 50+ be too much. Roughly how long does a normal infection last? Hmmm.... its rougghly 15% chance in a hospital and you have to walk to the hospital and heal yourself so approx....16ap to get to a hospital and find a FAK. Then if you had just been revived (this is all assumping body building and ankle grab) you would have roughly 15ap left then after curing the infection (if you had first aid) (if the hospital was close) you would have 25hp so it would be another approx 25ap to completely heal yourself which would be a total of 41ap. This assumpes and rounds a lot and considers a lot of skills and with my maths is unlikely to be accurate but I think a day plus would be fair seeing as its more work to infect the zombie. --MarieThe Grove 16:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep Votes

1. Author - I'm going to borrow from the dude down in the Kill section - FAKs nerf Infectious Bite, shotguns nerf Body Building, radios nerf mobiles, headshot nerfs ankle grab - so this nerfs Lurching Gait - but please consider the hit rate of this item. I intended it as a tactical option. --Funt Solo 12:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
   

Kill Votes

1. Downer - OMG WTF DON'T REMOVE SKILLZ! This is what every response to this will be. And I agree, an item that specifically disables a specific skill is specificially specific. I mean, is not kosher. I want NecroTranq to exist! but not like this. Sorry. --Gene Splicer 11:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Well, when the suggestion can be phrased as "A syringe that turns off lurching gait" I think that can be happily reply with "do not make items that turn off specific skills" --Gene Splicer 14:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

   Underpowered, not overpowered - I disagree with Gene Splicer. A 1% find rate for a one-use item? Not really good. And for those who are saying it nerfs Lurching Gait...you might as well say Shotguns nerf Body Building and FAKs nerf Infectious Bite. Please sign your votes.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 13:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

2. Sad Kill - Can we have a version 3? I alwayd thought there should be a zombie equilelent of infectious bite and this is good, because hp is no effect to zombies but if it could be a zombie equivilent that on top of you have to search for can't it have the same chance as a bite? it would still be underpowered to the bite as its a one hit item though. 1xp is a bit low too for survivor on zombie and the low hits on this 'weapon'- 4xp? Thats the same as DNA extractions and they are much more safe and easier to get than this. --Marie^{The Grove} 16:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
3. This basically becomes the survivor version of infectious bite, doesn't it? Except instead of losing 1HP per move you lose 1AP per move... I dunno, I kinda like the way it doesn't affect noob zombies, but it's a bit worthless if it's only about one chance in three for 1XP in a combat situation. As far as I can see this forces someone with lurching gait to buy Digestion, or get themselves killed as quickly as possible (which isn't necessarily easy). If you're a new zombie who only just bought lurching gait you're rather vulnerable, as dying would suck (stand-up AP), and using bite would suck (if you even have digestion, the hit rate will be low). This is a lot worse than infectious bite, which anyone can cure instantly with foresight (FAKs), and even better you can go back to a safehouse and give someone else easy XP. I know I've just argued that it's both underpowered and overpowered, but I'm trying to say that it'd basically be very annoying. ((Edit: I like the idea of it wearing off after 10 AP, that seems reasonable. I wouldn't mind seeing a slight boost to the damage (2HP & 2XP) but otherwise that pretty much resolves my objections.)) --ExplodingFerret 16:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
4. A slight change or two required - I love this idea; my only problem with it is that zombies might have to go pretty far to find someone to bite. Make it so that it wears off automatically after 10 AP or so (since real tranquilizers wear off after a while anyway). This would solve that problem without nerfing it. And you might want to increase the search rates a bit. It would also be cool if this was affected by some new skill instead of hand-to-hand combat (it just doesn't feel right for the effectiveness of a scientist-oriented item to be dependent on a military skill; plus, there need to be more science skills). In any case, if you can fix that first problem I mentioned, I'll vote keep. --Reaper with no name 17:04, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

   Re - Thanks for the constructive feedback (to all). --Funt Solo 18:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

5. Kill I like Reaper's comment about wearing off after 10AP. --Burgan 19:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
   

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Tihs is kinda obvious what im going to say, but i'll say it anyway. This nerfs lurching gait.--Mr yawn 12:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Actually, bobybuilding isn't nerfed by shotguns because you live that little bit longer, giving the skill its use. And FAKs don't nerf infectious bites because there needs to be a balance. This however just removes the lurching gait ability altogether. Its like stopping people from free-running--Mr yawn 13:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
2. Spam - Leave other people's skills alone. You've voted this way on suggestions before Funt. I don't understand why you would make this suggestion. It nerfs Lurching Gait, and I mean the actual definition of nerf, not what it's become around here with, "OMG, it helps someone!!! It nerfs something!!" This is just plain griefing, much like headshot. The difference is that this could end up taking far more AP than headshot. --Pinpoint 21:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

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