View source for Suggestion talk:20110221 Combining Skills

==From Developing Suggestions==
===Mutations===
{|
|'''Timestamp:''' {{User:Vapor/sig}} 07:21, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
|-
|'''Type:''' Skills
|-
|'''Scope:''' High level characters (Zombie and Survivor)
|-
|'''Description:'''
{{udspan|NecroTech needs DNA samples from the dead, not the living.}}

{{udspan|[Name]'s skin shivers for a moment, and the contents of the syringe begin their slow, molecular work.}}

We know from these statements that the zombie infection, at least in part, works on a molecular level. Why else would NecroTech require DNA samples of the dead and then use syringes that require "molecular work" to function? It would stand to reason then that the process of continuously dying and being revived, one's DNA may start to adopt some...changes. Mutations would start to occur over time. How would this affect the denizens of Malton, especially those that have been quarantined for years? I think we'd see a lot of zombies with some human characteristics and some survivors with trans-mortal characteristics. Luckily for the mutants, this comes with some benefits.

Begining at level 40, characters would have a Mutations skill tree available to them. The skills available would have paired skill prerequisites from both survivor and zombie skill trees. The cost of each Mutation skill would be 150 and they would be available weather alive or dead.

'''The Skills'''

Let's start with the zombie mutation skills:
:'''Death Grip + Axe Proficiency''' - Using strong hands, Zombie is able to grip onto and use axes. Axes deal 3 damage to players and barricades with a 40% accuracy (same as when used by survivors). This is not as useful in combat situations as clawing with Tangling Grasp, but does offer an improved accuracy when attacking barricades.
:'''Digestion + Surgery''' - When biting or feeding on a corpse, zombie heals 8HP instead of 4HP.
:'''Memories of Life + NecroNet Access''' - While inside powered NecroTech buildings, zombies are able to manufacture syringes(20AP) and revivify other zombies(10AP). Searching for syringes is still not an option.
:'''Radio Operation + Death Rattle''' - Zombie is able to operate powered radio transmitters and handheld radio receivers. Broadcasting is still limited to a groaned form of speech.
So why would a zombie want to manufacture syringes and revive other zombies? Career zombies may want these skills as well, right? A brainrotted zombie would no longer need to rely solely on the living to be brought to life so they can bask in glorious mutation. In other words don't want to screw the zombies with brain rot out of a chance to participate.

So let's look at survivor mutation skills:
:'''Knife Combat + Rend Flesh''' - The mutation gives the survivor knife-like claws on their fists. These appendages cause 3HP damage when used as weapons and have 50% accuracy. It's all the accuracy of knife combat, all the damage of an axe and none of the encumbrance of either.
:'''Diagnosis + Scent Blood''' - In addition to HP values, survivor can also distinguish infected survivors from uninfected. Infected survivors HP level is shown in green.
:'''Construction + Ransack''' - Mid level barricading (VSB 8-10) is boosted to an approximate 89% build rate. Higher and lower level barricading is not affected.
:'''Freerunning + Lurching Gait''' - Survivor has a 50% chance of entering a building when freerunning into a ruined building. They also do not lose their footing when freerunning into ruins and so do not lose HP when they are forced to street level.
|}

====Discussion (Mutations)====
I decided not to give the skills silly names but if people want to make suggestions I can add them to the bottom of the suggestion. I just don't want to commit to any skill names; the parining is what is important. The list is certainly not all inclusive. There may be some other pairings that make more sense and certainly this list I provided could use some tweaks. A few may be kind of inane or maybe even overpowered. I tried to balance them out. Both sides get a boost to barricades, healing and attacks. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 07:21, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
:Um, zombies reviving zombies? Thats a big no no for me. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 11:24, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I'd rather have some skills/mutations that say make infections more deadly as a zombie or improve the first/melee combat for survivors. None the less I'm in support of a skill tree that is only available to high levels. The survivor "mutations" such as Freerunning + Lurching Gait, Construction + Ransack and Diagnosis + Scent Blood would be better placed as a "Veteran Skill Set" or something of the like as they seem to just be people learning to be more effective not really mutating. The same would go for any skills that improve fist/melee weapons combat. I'm not sure what could be done to zombies in a "Mutation" skill tree I like the Digestion + Surgery one though not a fan of the others listed.{{User:Mazu/sig}} 11:57, 16 February 2011 (UTC) 
Hmmm..... 
* Digestion boost for eating live survivors only is a nice idea.
*Zombies with MoL & NecroNet being able to '''try''' to revive themselves with a needle they already have, inside a powered NT and with a chance of fail = Maybe   
*I like the zombie radio use but would want to see MoL as another pre-req.
* Diagnosis one is basically a dupe but i would/have voted for it.
All the rest are basically SPAM in my opinion --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 12:13, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
:Off topic, but Death rattle is a child skill of MoL. So the radio already has that as a requirement. XP {{User:Shadok/sig}} 21:05, 16 February 2011 (UTC) 
::My OOPS. Been so long since I bought it that I forgot :( --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 10:12, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I certainly like the concept of combining skills - perhaps that idea alone can be taken to the vote with new ideas added afterwards as separate suggestions? Anyways, here's my tuppence worth on each of your ideas:
*'''Death Grip + Axe Proficiency''' - reminds of that zombie from Resident Evil (I believe it's the very first one) which lurches towards the soldiers, broken ankle and all, dragging a fire axe behind him. This idea could work, although I'm not overly keen on it myself.
*'''Digestion + Surgery''' - absolutely yes, although I would only have this effect when munching on living survivors. After all, fresh meat is healthier and more nutritious!
*'''Memories of Life + NecroNet Access''' - I feel having zeds working as scientists is 'blurring the line' between survivor and zombie too much. A big no-no.
*'''Radio Operation + Death Rattle''' - great fun, but perhaps each attempt to use the radio should come with a chance of failure. After all, even with memories of life a zombie would probably just randomly mash the buttons instead of getting it right each time like a pro radio DJ.
*'''Knife Combat + Rend Flesh''' - mutant survivors? No way. 
*'''Diagnosis + Scent Blood''' - makes a lot of sense. To be honest I'm surprised this isn't already in the game, in the same way as Diagnosis can be used by zombies.
*'''Construction + Ransack''' - doesn't really make sense, seeing as Construction and Ransack are polar opposites. 
*'''Freerunning + Lurching Gait''' - the "50% chance" bit is okay, but failure should still result in HP damage.
--{{User:Chief Seagull/Sig}} 11:42, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for the input from everyone. I decided to just make it a combination of skills without all the mutation business. I've left most of the suggestions off. I picked the two most popular from DS discussion. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 05:39, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
----
==Clarification==
People seem to be voting on the examples rather than the actual mechanic. I propbably should have been more consistent with my use of the word example, I admit. I don't know if it will make a difference to those that have already voted but I'm considering making a clarification note. Is that alright? Otherwise I'll have to start the suggestion over and make it more clear that the examples were mainly just to illustrate how the combination system works. See Chief Seagull's suggestion above about taking only the mechanic of combining skills. That's what I was going for. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 21:03, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:See, it shouldn't really be being voted on if you're only explicitly listing examples. I like the idea, but I voted kill based on one example skill which I'm opposed to, and the fact that you've not got an exhaustive list of all of the possibilites. Hammer that out, and bring this back to voting at a later date, methinks. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:32, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
::No, no...I'm not saying people should vote on the examples. I'm saying I only listed the examples to show how the mechanic would work. I didn't list any other examples because...well really there are a lot of examples that could be used. I came up with some. Some ok, some bad. I only used the two examples in the suggestions because they aren't outlandish. But I digress. If I need to I will rework the suggestion again and resubmit it making it clear that the mechanic of combining skills is what it up for suggestion, not the examples. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 22:15, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:::No, I get what you're getting at. Just, what I'm saying is that you're trying to get the idea of this as a possibility voted on. What you need is a concrete list of what will and will not combine and what the ffects of combining are to be. Without that, it's not really a complete suggestion. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 22:39, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
::::That many options will surely see the suggestion shot down. Even if I meticulously groomed each and every possible skill combination, there would likely be one or more that would be kill voted on for some arbitrary reason by the vast majority of voters. I think its better to make a blanket suggestion and leave the imaginative stuff to Kevan should he deem it worthy of inclusion in the game. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 06:03, 24 February 2011 (UTC)