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This page is for the request of page deletions within the Urban Dead wiki. Due to concerns about loss of data, the ability to delete pages is restricted to system operators. As such, regular users will need to request a deletion from the system operators. For consistency and accountability, system operators also adhere to the guidelines listed here.

==Guidelines for Deletion Requests==

All Deletion Requests '''must''' contain the following information in order to be considered:

* '''A link to the page in question.''' Preferably bolded for visibility. Note that Category and Image links need a colon at the front to turn them into links (ie <code><nowiki>[[:Category:Category]]</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>[[:Image:Image.jpg]]</nowiki></code>).
* '''A reason for deletion.''' This should be short and to the point.
* '''A signed datestamp.''' This can be easily done by adding <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> to the end of your request.

In addition to placing a request on this page, please place the '''''<nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki>''''' tag on the top of the page that is being recommended for deletion. Please make sure that the original content remains on the page, so that others can judge whether the page is worthy of deletion.

Any deletion request that does not contain these three pieces of information will not be considered, and will be removed by a system operator.

Once the deletion request has been entered, the request shall remain on this page, where it will be voted on for a period of two (2) weeks, as judged by the initial datestamp. At the conclusion of this two weeks, the appropriate action will be taken by a system operator, and at the end of that day the request will be moved into the [[UDWiki:Administration/Deletions/Archive|Archive]].

Certain types of pages may be better being scheduled for deletion in order to reduce the amount of red tape and stop this page getting too cluttered. To lodge a request for scheduled deletions, go to [[UDWiki:Administration/Deletions/Scheduling]].

Deletion of pages that match a certain criteria may be better serviced by a request for a Speedy Deletion. Speedy Deletions are for removal of pages that are clearly of no value to the wiki, and do not incur the two week voting requirement. Speedy Deletion requests can be lodged at [[UDWiki:Administration/Speedy Deletions]].

{{speedydeletioncriteria}}

==Guidelines for Voting on Deletion Requests==

* One vote per user.
* Voting should take place underneath the request, and each vote should be started with a {{CodeInline|#}} with no empty lines inbetween votes.
* There are four vote types:
** '''Delete'''. For agreement with the deletion request
** '''Merge'''. For indication that the content on the page should be merged with another page (includes an implicit '''Delete''').
** '''Speedy Delete'''. For indication that the page meets one of the [[UDWiki:Administration/Speedy Deletions|Speedy Deletions]] Criteria (includes an implicit '''Delete''').
** '''Keep'''. For disagreement with the deletion request.

* The specific vote keyword should be bolded within the lodged vote. Any relevant comments are also allowed, but these should not be bolded.
* At least one '''Delete''' vote must be entered by the deadline in order for a page to be deleted. System operators may not use their own vote after the deadline to delete a page.
* If more '''Delete''' votes are entered than '''Keep''' votes, the page will be deleted. In any other circumstance, the page is kept.
* If 3 '''Speedy Delete'''s are lodged, and there are no '''Keep''' Votes, the page will be deleted as per [[UDWiki:Administration/Speedy Deletions|Speedy Deletions]].

==Deletion Queue==
<!-- Please place new requests directly below this message. 
If there are no requests, place the following message below.
''There are no pages in the deletion queue''
-->

===[[Banana Tactics]]===

Crit 1 of [[:Template:Banana Tactics]]. Suggest either merging or deleting.--[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="plainlinks">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 22:51, 19 June 2011 (BST)

#'''Speedy Delete''' --[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="plainlinks">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 22:51, 19 June 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - This time of the year again? --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 22:54, 19 June 2011 (BST)
#'''Go fuck yourself'''. Keep. This has been done several times before and you know how it turned out every time. Stop being such a sore loser. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 22:54, 19 June 2011 (BST)
#'''^^^^''' mis pretty much nailed it--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>23:22, 19 June 2011 (bst)</small>
#'''Delete''' -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 23:39, 19 June 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - Banana tactics are the only tactics I know. --{{User:The Surgeon General/sig}} 00:07, 20 June 2011 (BST)

==Recent Actions==
==={{DelEx|The_Republic_of_Digby|The Republic of Digby}}===
Content cleared by owner, might as well be a speedy --[[User:Bean|Bean]] 15:33, 12 June 2011 (BST)
# '''Speedy''': Page was blanked by the only guy who maintained it, Author Edit Only implied --[[User:Bean|Bean]] 15:33, 12 June 2011 (BST)
#'''Scheduled''' - User has blanked the page and created a new group. Crit 7 by proxy.--[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="plainlinks">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 16:01, 12 June 2011 (BST)

'''Deleted''' as a crit 7 by proxy.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|<span title="System Operator">Sys</span>]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="plainlinks">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 17:05, 12 June 2011 (BST)

===[[Lamportians]]===
This page was [[UDWiki:Administration/Deletions/Archive/Feb_2008#Lamportians|already]] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Lamportians deleted]. The only reason I haven't done this as a crit 6 is because the content doesn't match completely with the current version being more role-play than straight up recruiting(like the previous iteration). This is a term only used by a singular very small group. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 05:44, 25 May 2011 (BST)
*'''Obviously Delete''' - And I really want to do this as a crit 6 but am erring on the side of caution. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 05:44, 25 May 2011 (BST)
*'''delete''' - had potential but it's just kinda shit. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 06:02, 25 May 2011 (BST)
*'''Speedy''' - Content is similar enough, IMHO: Expanding it doesn't mean its's not crit 6. This should be a group page, it's not a "generic term".--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|<span title="System Operator">Sys</span>]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 09:14, 25 May 2011 (BST)
*'''Delete''' - But I don't think it's enough for a speedy. They've expanded on it quite a bit.--[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="stealthexternallink">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 13:42, 25 May 2011 (BST)

'''Deleted''' - This be unanimous.--[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="stealthexternallink">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 22:41, 8 June 2011 (BST)

===[[Template:Wikipedia]]===
A template which is literally identical to using the "Wikipedia:" prefix in a link. It saves precisely '''0''' bytes while using a template inclusion and increasing server load.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 14:01, 20 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Merge''' with [[Template:WP]] and then delete. Are all the transclusions truly due to {{tl|unsigned}}? We should be linking to internal help about signatures, not to Wikipedia. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#:Which I have [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Template:Unsigned&curid=13862&diff=1891188&oldid=1870284 just done]. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:06, 20 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#:Mostly. I've used my bot to subst the template in on all non-protected pages, given that it's completely redundant.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 15:38, 20 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Speedy C1''' - a template that merely uses a single wiki code command is "No content" in my books. --<small>Oh, and vote on [[UDWiki:Projects/Very_Funny...or_Not|Project Funny]], by the way.</small> --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 15:12, 20 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Speedy''' - as Spiderzed.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 20:25, 20 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - You don't get to technicality off such a popular template. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 21:19, 20 May 2011 (BST)
#:[[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Wikipedia|Popular?]] ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>21:54, 20 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#::The bot changed all of the edits so that's not exactly an accurate revelation of how people use it. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Thegeneralbot This] is more realistic. People use this template because not everyone knows about the magic word, don't punish ill-informed users for being ill-informed? --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:44, 21 May 2011 (BST)
#:::Why not redirect the template to an explanation of magic words? The magic word is so similar to the template that anyone who uses the template should be perfectly capbable of using the magic word.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 09:13, 21 May 2011 (BST)
#:::I was under the impression that the bot only subst'd {{tl|Wikipedia}} when found in {{tl|unsigned}} template calls. I may be wrong but still, I don't think the template is as popular as you're implying. And, yes I checked thegeneralbot's contribs. I so far haven't found any edits where {{tl|Wikipedia}} was subst'd other than inside {{tl|unsigned}}. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>16:02, 21 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#::::That's because the use in unsigned made up the bulk of {{tl|wikipedia}} uses. That said, nope, it didn't just remove the ones in unsigned, which explains why I can't find any of my old uses of it, despite the fact that I've used it frequently in the past. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 07:04, 22 May 2011 (BST)
#I support a '''merge''' with &#123;&#123;[[Template:WP|WP]]&#125;&#125;, but suggest retaining as a [[wikipedia:WP:SRD|soft redirect]], deleting only when we can get [[WP:]] implemented as an [[wikipedia:H:IW|interwiki]] shortlink. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 05:41, 21 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Delete''' -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 05:43, 21 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - It's not actually the same as just the plain link, since the plain link requires additional code to look the same. Quick example: <code><nowiki>{{wikipedia|example}}</nowiki></code> yields {{WP|example}} while <code><nowiki>[[wikipedia:example]]</nowiki></code> yields [[wikipedia:example]]. Note the different outputs. I prefer the template since it saves some typing, and the code is cleaner. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:18, 21 May 2011 (BST)
#:You can use the [[wikipedia:Help:pipe trick|pipe trick]] to get the same appearance; although there is slightly more code, there is far less of a drain on server resources. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 13:12, 21 May 2011 (BST)
#::Pipes would work, sure, but that's why I mentioned less and cleaner code. Also, it doesn't produce "far less of a drain on server resources." When it comes to server load, the danger of templates is that if they are changed, every page they are included on needs to be re-cached. That's not an issue here since unsigned doesn't change. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 07:04, 22 May 2011 (BST)
#:::[{{fullurl:Template:Unsigned}}?action=history It's been changed twice recently]. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 07:38, 22 May 2011 (BST)
#::::"...frequently". Sorry, forgot to put that at the end of my last comment. ;) Anyway, two edits in three years (both of which had to be requested via A/PT) is nothing to be concerned with. To put things in perspective, in the same time period, your sig has changed 15x more frequently and is on more than 45x as many pages, yet none of us seem to object to it. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 10:38, 22 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::Actually, ''I'' object. {{tongue}} I think we should get rid of templated sigs for precisely those reasons (added DB calls on every page load, plus cache invalidation of every page on which they are transcluded when they change), but while they are permitted by {{WIKILAW}}, I'm going to keep availing myself of the convenience. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 22:40, 22 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::Basically, yeah. This is why there was the request to delete Nosubst. This template is far less harmful though and more intuitive to the partially wiki-literate. It's a tool and you shouldn't take away tools that don't actually harm anything just for the sake of simplicity. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:02, 23 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::Not sure how this template is more intuitive than the normal link; if they can find this template, they can find out how to use the link (which should be described in the help pages, anyway).--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|<span title="System Operator">Sys</span>]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 17:17, 24 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::::Wikipedia:wikipedia: for one. The fact that templates are easier to understand to a layman than magic words for two. We assume that most users can pick up and learn templates fairly quickly and magic words/parsers rarely. I'm actually not a fan of the template but I don't see a reason to remove the option just so we don't have to change them manually. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:41, 25 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::Bah. If you ''really'' objected, your actions would speak for you and you wouldn't avail yourself of it at all. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:57, 23 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::So the Nosubst deletion nomination counts for naught? {{tongue}}<br/> I have a policy discussion in the works, but I don't know how long it will take me to get to. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 04:33, 23 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::::So another policy will get passed by a group of individuals that give shit all about the wiki? Lovely. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>17:08, 24 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#:::::::::Whether it passes or not doesn't overly concern me. Which reminds me… {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 23:59, 24 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - u dont delete my contributions to the wiki without me having a say about it --[[User:Hagnat|People's Commissar Hagnat]] <sup>[[User_talk:Hagnat|[talk]]] [[wcdz|[wcdz]]]</sup> 20:37, 22 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - I prefer the template--{{User:AnimeSucks/Sig}} 20:40, 22 May 2011 (BST)

5 delete votes and 4 keeps. Merged (via move) with {{tl|WP}}. Kept {{tl|Wikipedia}} as a soft redirect. Fixed remaining links. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)</sub>
:No reason to have a soft redirect when a standard redirect preserves functionality and doesn't make it harder to reach the new template page(the entire purpose of soft redirects)--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 07:05, 6 June 2011 (BST)

... this must be one of the most dumb moves since gen tried to pass an anti-goon policy with the goons active in the wiki. Creating a redirect in [[template:wikipedia]] to ]]template:wp]] just adds more server load to a template whose main reason for deletion was server load. Its just too dumb for me to understand it. The merge votes should've count as a kept in this case, ffs --<small>[[User:Hagnat|hagnat]]</small> 12:31, 6 June 2011 (BST)
:You're right, since server load is the issue, we pretty much should have had this deleted lul -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 12:41, 6 June 2011 (BST)
::Yeah, pretty much. I kept as a soft redirect per Rev's suggestion but Karek reverted back to a typical redirect. If people want to keep it as a redirect or just keep the template rather than delete it then that's fine with me. That was never brought up during voting but whatever. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:31, 6 June 2011 (UTC)</sub>
:::It's a soft redirect now actually. It was just waiting on verification that all usage was gone. Also, not really server intensive in any way. Even the claims of the editing of it were edits done by the people claiming they were a problem. Anyways, now it's set to sit for a month or three until we can be reasonably sure people have gotten the message.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:19, 7 June 2011 (BST)
::::I think we're both misinterpreting what a soft redirect is. They are just a short messages directing someone to an ''external'' site. I don't even think a soft (or even a "hard") redirect is warranted TBQH. It should just be deleted since that is how the voting concluded. If there is sufficient reason to keep it, put in a request at [[A/U]]. Otherwise, it comes off a lot like just a disagreement with the voting results and maneuvering things to turn this into a keep. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)</sub>
:::::I just set it up in a way to make it clear that [[Template:WP|WP]] was the current version and this page is no longer in use as a template. Terminology be damned I guess. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 08:43, 8 June 2011 (BST)
::::::That's all well and good, but it was ''voted'' for deletion??? -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 04:34, 9 June 2011 (BST)
:::::::Yeah no, when 2 of the 5 deletes are merges and the other 4 votes are keeps that reasoning doesn't really fly. Especially when you actually read Revenants vote. That being said it's still ''going to be deleted'', it's just going to be left as a soft redirect for a bit first because the template still exists. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:04, 9 June 2011 (BST)
::::::::My point is that it's funny when so many people vote but in the end it becomes a situational decision by one person pushing for what they want. I voted delete because I use the <nowiki>[[wikipedia]]</nowiki> code personally, but as a whole I'm indifferent. It's worth noting though that Merge got the ''least'' votes out of all the options, even if you aren't inclined to count them as implicit deletes (which you are) -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 09:25, 9 June 2011 (BST)
:::::::::Meh, the only reason it qualifies is that last Merge vote that puts it over and since the vote in question specifically qualifies itself as situational upon the soft redirect it's really just common sense. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 09:34, 9 June 2011 (BST)
::::::::::I wasn't quite aware that we were intending on deleting it eventually and this was transitional? Is that actually the case? Cause if it is, it makes more sense and has made me look like a dil to boot. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 11:21, 9 June 2011 (BST)
:::::::::::We are and it is.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 11:27, 9 June 2011 (BST)
::::::::::::I remember reading that but somewhere along the line I forgot. I'm a bit of a mess -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 03:51, 11 June 2011 (BST)
:::::::::::::S'ok, apparently you're not [[User:Aichon|the only one]] who doesn't have time to read s recent comments make oh so clear. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 17:29, 11 June 2011 (BST)
What are you guys doing? Let me run through the process for handling a Delete and Merge result, since it's very simple, but has apparently been forgotten:
#Merge the two pages.
#Fix all links to point to the new page, except where they were specifically being used to refer to the old one as opposed to the new one (e.g. discussions like here)
#Fix all transclusions to point to the new page that it's being merged into
#Delete the page
That's all you guys had to do, but for some reason, you got stuck between #2 and #3. Why did no one check for and fix transclusions before replacing the template with text telling people not to use it? And why was that text put in at all, when your job was to follow the vote's results and ''delete'' the page? We don't need text telling people not to use a page that's been deleted, since people don't use pages that ''aren't there''. That's why you delete them. Why has this not been done? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:32, 10 June 2011 (BST)
:I did fix all incoming links and transclusions (although I think I must have missed the one transclusion in this vote). As for deleting it, that's what is currently under discussion. Pages ''have'' been kept as a redirect during a deletion before. I don't know that a redirect of this nature has been used before but I'm open to using them. I just want it made clear what is happening, since at first it seemed to me like maneuvering to turn a delete decision into a keep decision. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>21:45, 10 June 2011 (UTC)</sub>
:1. Not a standard case. 2. If you can't be asked to read any of the intervening discussion that has happened don't bother to comment. You're just wasting everyone's time at this point. Third, since I know you won't bother to read through any of it because of your "right-ness"(a common problem with users of this wiki), [[Template:Wikipedia]] is a long existing template that was implemented 5 years ago. Above and beyond that it's a popular template on [http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Template:Wikipedia wikipedia] [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Wikipedia projects]. If you don't want to run the risk of users recreating it you do it [[Templte:Wikipedia|''this'']] way, which is also the only way it actually passes as a delete vote, having changed it essentially just saved the step of creating the soft redirect or redirect(since one is justified, the template [[Template:WP|still exists]]). Also, it's still getting deleted, now shoo. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 17:29, 11 June 2011 (BST)
::{{*}}"Can't be arsed".--[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="plainlinks">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 18:32, 11 June 2011 (BST)
::I'll excuse your personal (and hurtful, coming from you) attacks on me as a courtesy. First off, I'm aware of its history and would prefer it stay around (see my vote above). Second, as I'm sure you agree, failing to fix any transclusions was an oversight in need of correction, and leaving them while altering the template is never part of proper procedure, so a mistake was definitely made here. Third, I think that you're not giving Rev enough credit, since he's a smart guy, is well-versed in the rules, and says what he means. If he had wanted it to be taken the way you say, he could have said Keep with his comment, or else he could have said Merge ''on the condition that'' it be done as he described. Instead, he said Merge, which he knows acts as a Delete, and he phrased it as a suggestion, instead of as a comment on which his vote was contingent. Fourth, see Crit 6. That's how you stop people from recreating the page on ''this'' wiki. Anyway, I'm not going to stick around to argue it further, so you'll get what you wanted from me. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:57, 11 June 2011 (BST)
:::Not personal, just frustrated. Sometimes even I tire of repeating myself and this would mke probably the fourth time this has been addressed. It's an unusual case and a close vote, it seems reasonable to try and do it in a way that has the least potential to cause issues(in this case phasing it out in steps). As for Crit 6, that's generally connected with vandalism cases historically. A situation that relies on it is less than ideal. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 21:44, 11 June 2011 (BST)

=== Dupilcated image ===
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/File:50x16t.PNG] Un-used duplicate of [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/File:50x16.PNG], [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/File:50x16t.PNG 1] could be deletead?--{{User:Michaleson/sig}} 16:03, 17 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Scheduled''' - but I'll check with Schwan before deleting. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>16:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#'''Speedy''' - Two days short of a scheduled. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 18:50, 17 May 2011 (BST)

A. Schwan confirmed [[User_talk:A.schwan#Orphaned_Images|on his talk page]] that the image was unneeded, so I deleted it as crit 7 by proxy. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>21:37, 17 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>

===[[Template:Nosubst]]===
Horrible hack that exists only to work around sensible software limitations. We should take the opportunity given by the new sig size limits to recognise this, delete this abomination, and have all users made to use proper signatures. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 11:26, 2 May 2011 (BST)
:Just to be clear... this isn't going to break existing sig inclusions, is it. Just people who (attempt to) use it from now on.<br />I have long hated templated sigs, but then I also hate having to scroll through huge swathes of sig code if it's subst'ed into discussions <small>-- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] 11:37, 2 May 2011 (BST)</small>
::Correct.<br/> And yeah, me too, but it's a bit “damned if you do, damned if you don't”, and templated sigs cause more problems than they solve, which is why they're prohibited by default by the MediaWiki software unless you deliberately circumvent that with a measure such as this template.{{User:Revenant/Sig}} 11:53, 2 May 2011 (BST)
:::Or change a one-line setting in the software....--{{User:The General/sig}} 12:09, 2 May 2011 (BST)
::::Sadly I feel its too late. If it was setup from the beginning, I'd have no problem, but deleting it now is just going to break loads of links. Rev should set up UDWiki 2.0 --[[User:Rosslessness|Rosslessness]] 12:16, 2 May 2011 (BST)
:::::It '''was''' set up in the beginning, by Kevan, and then hacked around by users. And it shouldn't change any links that use it properly: the rest can be easily fixed. What it ''will'' do is necessitate users to change their sigs. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 12:27, 2 May 2011 (BST)
::::::'''No it wasn't'''. The mediawiki software didn't originally force substitution in signatures: It was added in an update and there wasn't originally a setting to turn it off, so we developed a workaround.--{{User:The General/sig}} 12:33, 2 May 2011 (BST)
::::::Whats the fix? --[[User:Rosslessness|Rosslessness]] 12:37, 2 May 2011 (BST)
:::::::Mostly deleting it out of [[User:MrAushvitz|MrAushvitz]]'s [[Template talk:Nosubst|fucking sig]]. {{grr}} {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 12:44, 2 May 2011 (BST)
::::::::Ah, thats why its used on so many of the old suggestion pages. Get on that, use your crazy robot. --[[User:Rosslessness|Rosslessness]] 12:49, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Kill''' with fire. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 11:26, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - Templated sigs are allowed by wiki policy; If you don't like it then change the policy rather than  trying to delete the template that allows them.--{{User:The General/sig}} 11:44, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#:Mind to show me where a policy directly grants the use of templated sigs as a right? Can't find it in [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Signature Policy|the sig policy]], nor do I see any other applicable policy. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 11:57, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#::The section that says: What would be allowed - Anything that isn't? --[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="stealthexternallink">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 12:01, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Kill''' this is terrible, I assume, so down with it or something. --'''<span style="font-size:95%">[[User:Katthew|<span style="color: #229922">カシュー</span>]]</span>''', <span style="font-size:80%">[[User:Katthew/Zombie Improvements|<span style="color: #229922">ザ ゾンビ クィーン</span>]]</span> <span style="font-size:50%; color: #229922">'''('''[[The Dead 2.0|<span style="color: #229922">ビープ ビープ</span>]]''')'''</span> [[Image:Katthewsigtag.gif]] <span style="font-size:115%; color: #229922">'''@'''</span> 12:17, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - This template is linked to [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Nosubst|lots of stuff]].  Who is going to fix all of the broken links if this gets deleted?--{{User:Giles Sednik/sig}} 12:24, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#:'''Me''', if nobody else does, and '''before''' it gets deleted. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 12:34, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''keep''' as above--&nbsp;[[Image:Boobs.sh.siggie.gif|link=User:Sexualharrison|18px]] &nbsp; <small> [[User talk:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">bitch</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</small><small>12:31, 2 May 2011 (utc)</small>
#'''Keep''' - just because I think General has a better option of dealing with this- it would also allow more comfortable transition period for those of us who do used the damned templated sigs. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 12:47, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' --[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="stealthexternallink">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 12:59, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' -- [[Image:Cat Pic.png|14px]] [[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''Thadeous Oakley''']]</span> [[User_Talk:MisterGame|<span style= "color: black; background-color: white">'''''Talk''''']]</span>  13:08, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Kill''' -- Honestly ok with this. Can we get rid of the signature policy next? Maybe replace it with something that simply says your sig can't impersonate other users, break pages, and needs to show who you are and leave it at that? --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 13:41, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Kill''' Having looked at it,  seems fair, as long as rev wipes out the linked list. --[[User:Rosslessness|Rosslessness]] 13:52, 2 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' --{{User:Imthatguy/sig}} ''' 14:31, 2 May  2011 '''
#'''Keep''' It works fine. Has for years. Old folks coming back to the wiki will have to deal with some shit the first time they try to sign. Would be pretty off-putting I think. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] [[File:Etat.gif|link=http://on.cnn.com/lIVw45|Amurica. Fuck. Yeah]] <sub>22:19, 2 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#'''Delete''' <small>-- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] 07:42, 3 May 2011 (BST)</small>
#'''Delete''' -obsolete --[[User:Karloth_vois|Karloth Vois]] <sup>[[¯\(°_o)/¯]]</sup> 15:41, 3 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - The only way I'll be okay with a delete if there is a code length limit on signatures. So steal from WP, basically. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 23:56, 10 May 2011 (BST)
#:With the software update, signatures are now limited by the software to 255 characters. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 03:41, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#::The Goon's signature (and probably others) still manage to be ridiculously big. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 04:33, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#:::They're subst'd in. If they were using {{tl|nosubst}} and signing using e.g. {{tl|Goonsig|<nowiki>SUBST:</nowiki>Nosubst{{!}}Goonsig{{!}}Revenant}}, they'd be breaking the template transclusion limit on every page they posted on in short order. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 04:40, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#::::That's not what I'm talking about; I'm talking about how long the code for their signatures are. It's very long. If templated signatures want to be deleted, it's better suited for policy discussion, provided a reasonable alternative is included (so no long signature codes, it makes me angry). --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 04:44, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::I'm not sure you're understanding me, so I'll give you a demonstration… the invocation {{tl|Goonsig|Goonsig{{!}}Revenant}} gives {{Goonsig|Revenant}}, which is the same as what specifying {{tl|Goonsig|<nowiki>SUBST:</nowiki>Nosubst{{!}}Goonsig{{!}}Revenant}} '''as your signature''' results in. In contrast, using {{tl|Goonsig|<nowiki>SUBST:</nowiki>Goonsig{{!}}Revenant}} '''as your signature''' results in… <span style="font-size:xx-small; letter-spacing: -2px; text-shadow: #cc4444 1px 1px 10px">[[File:555Manbabies.gif|You rated this wiki '1'! Great job, go hog wild!|link=User:Revenant]][[User:ShaqFu|<span style="color:#FF0018">&#124;</span>]][[User:Katthew|<span style="color:#33DD33">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#FF0048">&#124;</span>]][[User:SprCobra|<span style="color:#FF0060">&#124;</span>]][[User:Laughing Man|<span style="color:#FF0078">&#124;</span>]][[User:Revenant|<span style="color:#FF0090">&#124;</span>]][[User:underisk|<span style="color:#FF00A8">&#124;</span>]][[User:I WARNED YOU ABOUT TEMPLATES BRO|<span style="color:#FF00C0">&#124;</span>]][[User:DeRathi|<span style="color:#FF00D8">&#124;</span>]][[User:DerpDerp|<span style="color:#FF00F0">&#124;</span>]][[User:Abd al-Rahim ibn al-Husain al-'Iraqi|<span style="color:#FF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Sykic|<span style="color:#E700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Vaporware|<span style="color:#CF00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Nubis |<span style="color:#9F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Riseabove|<span style="color:#8700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Teehee McGee |<span style="color:#6F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Anothergenericzombie|<span style="color:#5700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Ryu|<span style="color:#0048ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Mortimer Wiley|<span style="color:#0044DD">&#124;</span>]][[User:Deadone|<span style="color:#3F00ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:woland37|<span style="color:#2700ff">&#124;</span>]][[User:Colbear|<span style="color:#0000dd">&#124;</span>]][[User:Oh no!|<span style="color:#27ff00">&#124;</span>]][[User:Bender Bending Rodriguez|<span style="color:#0F00ff">&#124;</span>]]</span>
#::::::I think what AHLG is saying is that without {{tl|nosubst}}, ''all'' code heavy signatures will add heavy amounts of code to pages when signing. The inclusion sizes don't matter to too many people as long as they don't have to wade through umpteen lines of code when they want to contribute to dicussion. My biggest issue with this deletion request is that it is being passed off as sensible software limitations. I don't believe sensible is the right word. ''Minimal'' or ''default'' software limits is more descriptive. Its like saying that the [[:category:If Templates|"if" templates]] are a crappy hack job because the software has sensible limits on parser functions. The wiki software sucks. It's vanilla. So what if there exists a hack to make it suck less? It's rare that anything is broken because of templated sigs. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:26, 11 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#:::::::It's really not as rare as it would be without Nosubst. Not to mention that with Nosubst gone it would mean that actually useful templates won't be excluded from pages like A/VB and A/M. It actually opens up possibilities for us that we currently have to code around.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 05:50, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::::When I say rare I mean extremely rare. The only instance of page breakage in recent history was A/VB and it was due mostly to the whole of A/VB/Bots being transcluded. And then it only became a problem when we came under heavy bot attacks. That problem was easily solved by no longer transcluding A/VB/Bots, which was largely unecessary to begin with. It could also be argued that it was the size of the regular non-sig templates causing it to break. If any other possibilities will arise by deleting {{tl|nosubst}}, I fail to see what they may be. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>06:10, 11 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#:::::::::It actually really can't because the sig templates were actually being called ''multiple'' times in the inclusion chain. While it's easy enough to noinclude them and thus limit the amount of data being called through them superficially, that also compromises the purpose of signing needlessly. We shouldn't have to adapt how pages work because some users want to use a feature actually disabled by the software itself. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 22:04, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::::::Yes, the sigs were called multiple time but so were the non-sig templates due to the fact that the whole of A/VB/B being transcluded. In the case of the templated sigs, it was a template call ({{tl|nosubst}}), inside a template call (the template sig which themselves sometimes called on other templates) inside a template call (the transcluded A/VB/B). Similarly, with the non-sig templates, there were template calls ({{tl|usr}}), inside a template call ({{tl|vndl}}) inside a template call (the transcluded A/VB/B). The points I'm trying to make are that a) we've taken steps to correct page breaking on A/VB and b) it really wasn't necessary to transclude A/VB/B in the first place. Whatever value that A/VB/B added to A/VB was superficial and it is actually a lot simpler to just include links to it from [[MediaWiki:recentchangestext]] and [[MediaWiki:blockipsuccesstext]] and be done with it. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>14:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#::::::Vapor: Not at all. There is a wiki software setting to enable unsubstituted template signatures. Kevan has it set to the default, which is to disable them. When I described this as a “hack workaround”, that was the literal truth. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 07:19, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::That's not entirely accurate. Kevan hasn't set it to anything: When the wiki was first set up the setting wasn't available and templated signatures were allowed; a software update disallowed them and the setting to change that was only introduced later. We are forced to use this sort of hack due to the difficulty in getting Kevan to change the software.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 09:09, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::Yeah, I'm not disputing that it is a hack, I just don't agree that it is a worthless hack. I really don't believe Kevan made a conscious decision to turn off unsubstituted signatures way back when. Just like I don't think he intentionally set the max characters for raw signatures to 255. He likely just ran the update without any customization. I think we can reasonably leave {{tl|nosubst}} in place and any sigs that happen to break pages can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, as it has been done in the past. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:54, 11 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#:::::What I am saying is that when I hit edit there is a heck of a lot of code to wade through. [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Bureaucrat_Promotions&action=edit&section=8 Here is a sample from A/BP]. Removing templated signatures encourages code use, which wouldn't be so bad if some of the signatures (irrespective of the manner in which they are placed) are really code heavy. But besides any of that, what we are really talking about is the issue that templated signatures breaking similar templates and other templates on pages. A/VB is a good example, as are talk pages. A simple solution may be to not use templated signatures on just these pages if such a problem arises, and it rarely does, do as what Vapor said just above. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 16:32, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::It's been a while since I checked but I'm pretty sure that template signatures trigger a few different DB searches every time they're included on a page. All changing this does is force the search to happen once when the user signs instead of every single time someone edits the page for every single time the template appears on it. On top of that signatures larger than 255 characters have to call a template in their code so that can actually be sorta policed easily enough. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 22:04, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::So, it is to say that after I sign at the end of this comment, the code is merely substed in instead of as a template? Meaning that the code length isn't an issue for whatever is added in the corresponding preferences section. It's still an issue though to how long the code is at the end result. The issue for me hasn't to do with me wanting to keep this more complex templated signature, I'm fine changing this I just find the heavy code sigs cumbersome when I go to edit. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 22:40, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::::I'm saying that without {{tl|GoonSig}} the goon's sigs wouldn't be possible because it's a template call made in Preferences that's substituting the template. We can police that because the template has to exist for them to call, like your sig. I'm also saying that your sig makes the server do a lot more work then, say, mine. Something on the order of 3-5 times the work with one inclusion of your sig. More every time a user uses a template signature. Mine adds to this page's DB content and gets called as part of the Page's call then run through the wiki-markup and sent to the browser so it can act on the html, yours adds to the actual processing of the page ''before'' we see it because it has to be interpreted by the wiki markup and then search the DB for the page you're referencing in the signature which then also has to be run through the wiki markup each and every single time someone loads the page for each and every time someone signs on it with a template signature. In the best case scenario it's done once per signature per page and referenced from that, at worse it's done once for every time you sign. Hopefully that answers some of the question because I'm kinda confused about what you were trying to say.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 23:07, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::::It should be noted, however, that to say it is "3-5 times the load" is somewhat misleading because the queries take somewhere in the range of 0.003 seconds.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 23:36, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::::::I'm talking about actual stress on the server. Also should mention that that's actually not necessarily the case, especially on larger pages about these parts and larger signatures for that matter. The number of queries can have an impact in speed, and a notable one at that. Here's an example [[Suggestions/RejectedDecember2005]] vs [[User talk:Karek]]. The first has no expanding templates due to [[Special:LongPages|file size]], the second takes longer to load. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 05:36, 13 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::::::I might be missing your point, Karek, but those don't seem to be good examples of pages breaking/server strain due to templated sig calls. Both have giant walls of text which cause them to be so large. When that happens, templates stop working properly. I can't find even a single attempt to call on a templated sig in your first example nor is there any extraneous template usage (just {{tl|prejection}} it seems). In your second example, nothing seems broken despite lots of templated sigs and it didn't seem to load any longer than any other page; not for my anyway. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>06:03, 13 May 2011 (UTC)</sub> 
#::::::::::::It was a comparison of text size vs number of calls and their effect on speed. Largely irrelevant now that I've archived my talk but [[User_talk:Karek/20110513132417|here]] is that archive. Should have the same visible effect. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 14:43, 13 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::::::I am a also talking about server load, hence my comment that a database query takes very little time. Yes, more queries do have an impact on server load but it is not generally a major problem: In fact, a few large queries are a lot heavier on the server than lots of small ones. So, yeah, lots of massive template inclusions will hurt the server but so will lots of massive walls of text on a single page and most signature templates aren't that largem.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 08:45, 13 May 2011 (BST) 
#::::::::::::Unless we want to ask [[Kevan]] for some performance stats to settle this, can we stop waving our wiki-peens? {{tongue}} {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 08:54, 13 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::::::::I would prefer to call it a "reasoned debate" {{Tongue}}.--<span>[[User:The General|The General]] <sup>[[User Talk:The General|T]] [[Project_UnWelcome|<span title="Project UnWelcome">U!</span>]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|<span title="Project Wiki Patrol">P!</span>]] <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://urbandeadwiki.smfforfree.com/index.php <span title="Urban Dead Wiki Forum">F!</span>]</span></sup></span> 14:36, 13 May 2011 (BST)
#::::::::::::::^This. Although we could probably move it to the talk page or {{tl|Nosubst}} talk page or something. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 14:43, 13 May 2011 (BST)
#:::::::::::::::Seconded, although keep the current discussion points here so for perspective voters. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>14:51, 13 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
#'''Keep''' - after some serious pondering. I'd vote delete in a heartbeat if it had been that way all the time, but pulling it away now will cause a lot of issues for rarely active users. Adding substings to sigs occassionally, while not fun, is the lesser evil. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 17:02, 11 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - I'm with Vapor and Gnome on this one.--{{User:AnimeSucks/Sig}} 23:42, 13 May 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - What problem is this fixing? Transclusion limits on high-traffic pages? If so, just ban templated sigs on the pages in question. Otherwise, I'm with AHLG. I do NOT want to read "lol" followed by 14 lines of code before I can see the next comment, which is what this would cause to happen far too often. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:49, 15 May 2011 (BST)

'''Kept'''. 12 Keep votes and 6 Delete votes. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>


==={{DelEx|Federal_Stafford_Loan_Program|Federal Stafford Loan Program}}===
Oh, I guess this is how pages are deleted? It was some sort of weird spam. -[[User:Susan Bakersfield|Susan Bakersfield]] 03:22, 14 May 2011 (BST)
:Got this one when clearing out the [[A/VB/B|bots]]. It's best to report them there (although it gets done here anyway). Thanks <small>-- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] 07:55, 14 May 2011 (BST)</small>

===[[Smart Revive Policy]]===
The Smart Revive Policy was created in error and is effectively the [[No Random Revive Policy]]. It appears that [[User:Obsdark|Obsdark]] didn't read the [[No Random Revive Policy]], and just looked at the old title of the page. There is only a few pages that link to the [[Smart Revive Policy]] and those could be redirected to the [[No Random Revive Policy]]. I also updated the [[No Random Revive Policy]] to merge in any of the needed information from [[Smart Revive Policy]]. --{{User:Akule/sig}} 02:07, 27 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - this is a filibuster vote {{User:Nubis/sig}} 02:14, 27 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Speedy''' crit 1 though voting speedy seems kind of pointless due to the above "vote". ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>03:09, 27 April 2011</sub>
#'''Delete''' - Technically crit 1, but seeing how Nubis is reading from the dictionary, it'll have to wait it out. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 13:50, 27 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Delete''' Unneeded and inferior copy of an established tactic. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 14:24, 27 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Speedy''' - Criteria 1.--[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="stealthexternallink">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 14:41, 27 April 2011 (BST)
#'''delete'' this is a busterfily vote -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 17:07, 27 April 2011 (BST)
#'''keep''' As a [[Help:Redirection|Redirect]]. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 21:25, 27 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - redirect <small>-- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] 07:44, 3 May 2011 (BST)</small>
#'''Keep''' as the boxman --&nbsp;[[Image:Boobs.sh.siggie.gif|link=User:Sexualharrison| HEY! HANDS OFF MAH BOOBS! | 16px]] &nbsp; <small> [[User talk:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">bitch</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</small><small>06:31, 11 May 2011 (utc)</small>
#'''Keep''' - Redirect it--{{User:Michaleson/sig}} 22:19, 11 May 2011 (BST)

5 to 5. '''Kept''' as a redirect. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>06:25, 13 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
===[[The living]]===
Not really much in the way of content here. I'd like to have the page deleted so that I can use the name (with a capitol L). {{User:Clint_Clintstone/sig}} 10:35 21 April 2011 (EST)

#'''delete''' - never got off the ground etc. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 03:46, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - This is both history, a group that existed(and we don't delete disbanded groups just 'cause), and also a page stuffed full of content when [[The Dead|context]] is shown. We killed crit 12 for a reason. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:52, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep'''. Its well linked. --[[User:Rosslessness|Rosslessness]] 11:04, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#:My arse. it has like 8 and you made half of them years ago and only because they mentioned the dead? -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig4}} 12:07, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#::Sorry, its referred to as part of the did you know section of the wiki, I don't know why Clint doesn't just use [[The Living]] --[[User:Rosslessness|Rosslessness]] 12:28, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep'''. As Ross. You don't have to get rid of that page to create [[The Living]]. And we could also add a disambiguation notice on top of the page to refer to the older/newer group respectively. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 12:47, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#:This^. Especially since they're both unique pages and the stats page links by caps(like the whole wiki). --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 13:42, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - As Above.{{User:Zombie Lord/sig2}} <tt>13:46 22 April 2011(UTC)</tt>
#'''Delete''' Just another of those "exists only on paper" kind of groups with no real content, the kind of which we deleted hundreds of. -- [[Image:Cat Pic.png|14px]] [[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''Thadeous Oakley''']]</span> [[User_Talk:MisterGame|<span style= "color: black; background-color: white">'''''Talk''''']]</span>  13:59, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Delete''' - this page doesn't stop you using the capital L space... and anyway, afaik, this one is just a reactionary page to [[The Dead]]... puppy tears, and all that, y'know {{tongue}} <small>-- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] 15:08, 22 April 2011 (BST)</small>
#:He'll find it difficult to do as that [[The Living]] is now in use. --{{User:Akule/sig}} 21:38, 25 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' -- [[User:Asheets|Asheets]] 16:15, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' SHUT THE FUCK UP!. i loled.--<small><div style="display: inline-block; height: 14px; width: 18px; overflow: hidden; vertical-align: text-bottom;">[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="position: absolute; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 14px; width: 18px;"> </span>]][[Image:Boobs.sh.siggie.gif|18px]]</div>&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">bitch</span>]]&nbsp;</small><small>16:19, 22 April 2011</small>
#'''Delete''' - get out. --[[User:Karloth_vois|Karloth Vois]] <sup>[[¯\(°_o)/¯]]</sup> 17:50, 22 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - this is a filibuster vote {{User:Nubis/sig}} 23:57, 23 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - Sure, why not - [[User:DeRathi|Serious Post]] {{User:DeRathi/Sig}}  15:27, 24 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - We're already deleting the living from the game, why not have a reminder they once existed here? --[[User:Laughing Man|Laughing Man]] 15:44, 24 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Weak Keep''' - As Karek and Ross, but weaker. {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 16:18, 24 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - As Karek and Ross. --{{User:Akule/sig}} 21:38, 25 April 2011 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - As Spiderzed.--[[User:Yonnua Koponen|<span style="color: DarkOrange">Yonnua Koponen</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Yonnua Koponen| <span style="color:Gold">T</span>]][[DvB| <span style="color: Goldenrod">G</span>]]</sup><sup><span class="stealthexternallink">[http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=840689 <span style="color: DarkGoldenrod"> P</span>] </span></sup> [[User:Yonnua Koponen/Sandbox|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[Discosaurs|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]][[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#Donkey|<span style="color: Red">^</span>]] 17:40, 26 April 2011 (BST)

Kept with 12 Keeps and 4 Deletes. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>06:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)</sub>
==={{DelEx|Bookmarks}}===
I wanted to make a page under my username, but instead made this. I already remade the page under my user-name, [[User:ShadowScope/Bookmarks|here]], so I would like for you to delete this page (somebody else may want to use Bookmarks in the future, and I don't want to waste space).--[[User:ShadowScope|ShadowScope]]<sup>[[User:Kevan|'the true enemy']]</sup> 02:33, 1 May 2011 (BST)
:EDIT: Also requesting a Speedy Delete, if that is all possible.--[[User:ShadowScope|ShadowScope]]<sup>[[User:Kevan|'the true enemy']]</sup> 02:34, 1 May 2011 (BST)
::'''Scheduled''' – Speedy, Crit 7 by proxy. All gone. {{smile}} {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 03:56, 1 May 2011 (BST)

==Archive==
{{Deletearchivenav}}