View source for Suggestion:20070721 Wander

{{rejected|Zombie Skill}}
===20070721 Wander===

[[User:Gene Splicer|Gene Splicer]] 14:23, 21 July 2007 (BST)

'''Suggestion type'''<br />
Skill

'''Suggestion scope'''<br />
Zombies

'''Suggestion description'''<br />
You've found the perfect safehouse. Secure, well stocked, and few zombies inside.

You gun down the last one, low on ammo and so exhausted you can barely stand...

What's that noise?

It's always the zombie you don't see that gets you.

I suggest a new skill, Wander, under the Memory of Life tree. A Zombie with Wander gains a new button labelled, imaginatively, Wander. Costing 1AP to press, it gives you location-specific flavour text as to why you have started wandering around the place (i.e. "You wander away from the horde, staring in store windows at things you almost remember"), and gain the "Wandering" tag. When a Survivor's room description is being generated, only half of the Wandering zombies (rounded up) are included in the Horde size listed. This is because your zombie:

*Has wandered around the back of the building.
*Is stuck in a closet.
*Has fallen behind the couch.
*Is in a different room.
*Is milling around with a couple of other Wandering zombies and as such is difficult to count accurately.
*Whatever you want to think yourself.

The Zombies are not actually hiding, they are merely meandering around aimlessly and, as such, are harder to get a good count on. A zombie loses the Wandering tag when they perform any action(because they are no longer wandering), or when any action is performed upon them by a Survivor(because the Survivor knows where the Zombie is, and the Zombie is now distracted from his reminiscing).

If more than 50% of the zombies in a building are Wandering, the horde descip changes to indicate this ("You see a horde of <b>about</b> X zombies here", or similar). This way a Survivor will know that they are seeing either between 100% and 75% of the present Zombies, or between 75% and 50%.

Targetting works normally, if a Wandering zombie is at the top of the stack, it gets hit as usual (and loses their Wander flag).

Finally, if a Zombie attacks a Survivor, it gains a 50% to hit bonus (that is, 1.5 times it's normal bonus, not a base 50% addition) due to the "surprise" factor(popping out from behind a dumpster). Innanimate objects cannot be surprised, and so are not affected.

This is an MoL skill for fairly obvious reasons.

Some notes:

*This cannot lead to Trojan zombies, as even if your building only contains one Zombie, and he is lurking, 1 * 0.5 rounded up is still 1.
*I originally considered calling this Lurk, but felt it important the name not give the impression that the Zombie is actively "hiding".
*You cannot abuse the to-hit buff by Wandering and Dewandering constantly, as a 2ap attack for 1.5 times your normal accuracy is, at best, only comparable to 2 attacks at your normal accuracy.
*The aim of this skill is to add a level of uncertainty to assaults and break-ins, to increase the paranoia level of the game. Is there really only one Zombie in here? I just killed a zombie... did the number stay the same because he was a wanderer, or because soemone new just showed up? Do I really only need to kill one more zombie, or is there another here somewhere who'll eat into my barricade AP? Atmosphere is good. It's always the zombie you don't see that gets you.
*Editted to remove some (unrelated to mechanics) typoey holdovers from the original name --[[User:Gene Splicer|Gene Splicer]] 15:15, 21 July 2007 (BST)

====Voting Section====
{{SugVoteBox}}

'''Keep Votes'''
#'''Keep''' - I didn't say this in the suggestion to prevent Suggestion Linkage, but I think this skill would go well with this[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/PR_Skill_New:_Zombie#Lunge_.28Enter_Square_Attack_.2B.29]. The PR'd suggestion could be implemented as a free Wandering flag whenever you enter a new square/stand up. --[[User:Gene Splicer|Gene Splicer]] 14:30, 21 July 2007 (BST) 
#'''Keep''' - I think this is an interesting way to look at the 'hidden' zombie idea.  Even if a zombie is wandering, it can still be shot at, right?--[[User:Obsidian|Obsidian]] 16:56, 21 July 2007 (BST)  EDIT - I've noticed that people are voting this down only because of the general hate against hiding skills.  This isn't so over-powered.  Think a little! END EDIT --[[User:Obsidian|Obsidian]] 21:54, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#:'''Re''' - "Targetting works normally, if a Wandering zombie is at the top of the stack, it gets hit as usual (and loses their Wander flag)." --[[User:Gene Splicer|Gene Splicer]] 18:49, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Keep''' - I think this is a good idea. This is how a lot zombies bite you in the ass (literally sometimes). And the zombies can still be attacked, so it doesn't become invinsble. very good idea.--[[User:Disc10|Disc10]] 17:01, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#'''keep''' - I liked the last lurking skill and i like the flavour of this too. Its not actual hiding it just adds some uncertainty! 2 things i would like to see change though are that it should not be usable with your last AP and secondly it may not be started while harmanz are present. I would not like to see a break in at the mall where the 1st dozen zeds all suddenly mingled into the crowd.... its just stoopid! --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 14:04, 22 July 2007 
#'''Keepy''' - It's a good idea, it actually gives more tactics to zombie player, who usually don't have that much to play with except rheping survivors, and to those people who voted kill please READ THE WHOLE THING AND UNDERSTAND IT before you vote...for me it's not actually hiding, it just gives a horde some flavour, and it never makes a zombie invisible to a zombie hunter--[[User:Packer|Packer]] 01:15, 24 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Keep''' For consideration and improvement.  Zed's should only be able to wander from a hord (5 or more), and should be a lvl. 10 plus skill (as with headshot on human skill tree). no to attack bonus. --[[User:Jack13|Jack13]] 12:23pm, 3 August, 2007

'''Kill Votes'''
#'''Kill''' - Whether or not the flavour given to use of the skill indicates hiding, this ''is'' effectively a hiding skill (albeit with an interesting twist).  I hate to vote down a suggestion for a new zombie skill but this just doesn't fit. --[[User:Mold|Mold]] 16:14, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Incomplete''' - This suggestion does not explain everything about how the mechanics of wandering would work. For example, can a zombie wander in a ransacked building? If so, how does this effect repairing that building? Is there a chance that the zombie will be ignored while repairing it, so it might stumble out of a closet into the repaired building to attack the survivors? Aside from that, I think some restrictions on wandering would be good (for example, only when there are no survivors in a building, or when the number of survivors is less than half the number of zombies, or something like that). --[[User:Saluton|Saluton]] 17:16, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#:'''Re''' - As explained in the notes, if there is at least one Zombie inside, there will always be at least one Zombie visible. So Ransack is unnaffected --[[User:Gene Splicer|Gene Splicer]] 18:47, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' I tried to think of a reason....but meh. This is a good suggestion , but I just wouldn't want it in the game... votes are just your opinion, right?--[[User:Wooty|Wooty]] 18:14, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#:'''Re''' - Yep, "I just don't like it" is a perfectly good reason. No matter how well it is worked out, I will always kill any, um, werewolf? suggestions --[[User:Gene Splicer|Gene Splicer]] 18:47, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - I definately wouldn't want this in the game. Like Mold said, it is effectively a hiding skill. --[[User:Ryiis|Ryiis]] 19:33, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - As Mold. --[[User:The Hierophant|The Hierophant]] 21:04, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - No to hiding true numbers -- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] <sup>[[User_talk:boxy|T]] [[Location Nuts|Nuts]] [http://iwitness.urbandead.info/locationBlock/location.php block it!] [[Dead Animals/Redux|DA]]</sup> 00:28, 22 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - No to making zombies more powerful.--[[User:Pdeq|Pdeq]] 01:28, 22 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - It's... interesting... to say the most, but it won't work. {{User:Vault/Sig}} 01:31, 22 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - A very interesting and different suggestion. The problem is, the majority of zombies are going to eventually get this wander skill and things will get retarded really fast. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:59, 22 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - Hiding skills are no. --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU pr0n]</sup> 03:06, 22 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - Meh.--{{User:Suicidalangel/Sig}} 03:09, 22 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - nah-nah hiding --[[User:Duke Garland|Duke Garland]]<sub>[[User talk:Duke Garland|T]]</sub><sup>[[LCD]] [[SSZ]]</sup> 10:54, 22 July 2007 (BST)
#'''kill''' - Knowing how many are inside is kinda an important part of the game [[User:Sanpedro|Sanpedro]] 02:32, 24 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - A hiding skill...er....Just hiding is too powerful. --[[User:Perne|Perne]] 12:23, 26 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Kill''' -One of the better versions out there. But I'm kind of lost on what the actual effect would be. In a siege people keep gunning them down until there are non left. reclamation efforts either are coordinated and this would have no effect, or they are not coordinated and would fail anyway.--<small><span style="border: 1px solid MediumSeaGreen">[[User:Vista|'''<span style="background-color: Ivory; color:Black">&nbsp;Vista&nbsp;</span>''']][[Signature_Race|<span style="background-color: MediumSeaGreen; color: Ivory ">&nbsp;+1&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 21:42, 30 July 2007 (BST)

'''Spam/Dupe Votes'''
#It is an hiding skill. While I would like a Hiding Skill, the flavour kills it. Zombies just "wander" around, and then they "somehow become invisible"? Can't you be blantat and say, "The Zombie runs into an hidden area and wait to ambush the surivior"? That sounds much more flavourable than stating that they wander, especially since the zombies in UD are much more smarter than zombies in other places. Stating that they "wander" is an insult to their intelligence.--[[User:ShadowScope|ShadowScope]] 21:10, 21 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Have you ever heard the expression "putting lipstick on spam"?''' -Hiding=no.--[[User:AlexanderRM|AlexanderRM]] 00:09, 22 July 2007 (BST)
#'''Change''' -Although it works great for the by yourself or in a small group effect, When your in a siege situation, it doesn;t work out. I propose that the more survivors in the building, the more wanderers you see. --[[User:Coco1993|Coco1993]] 19:40, 1 August 2007 (BST)
#'''Change''' - As above. If there are a large number of survivors in a building (i.e., a mall), the number of spots a zombie could wander away to goes down. Also, I'd suggest having the "about" be present ''any time there are wandering zombies'', not just at a certain percentage of the total. Then it isn't really a "hiding" skill so much as an obfuscation, which is what I think you were trying for initially. As this could get sort of wonky at very small numbers ("about 1 zombie here?" Oookay.), a concurrent suggestion would be that any time there's only 1 or 2 zombies lurking about, the game automatically appends "there may be others". ("There is one zombie here. There may be others.") If there's one and a bunch of wanderers, great, people have been notified, and if you kill the visible zombie, the next wanderer in the stack will become visible (as I understand the way you've set up the flag now). If there's only one, you kill him, and then any message about other possible zombies in the room goes away. Hopefully this makes sense outside of my head; I like what I see in how you've proposed this skill, but the concerns voiced about it are valid. --[[User:Animi|Animi]] 22:38, 2 August 2007 (BST)