View source for Suggestion talk:20070711 Walkie Talkie

{{Quote|karek|'''Kill''' - Better than radios, only problem is that there is no effective downside. This gets rid of radio spam and such by limiting range but because zombies have no way to stop it it actually improves on survivor communications a lot. Make it so that if the radio mast is down it won't work or something or this would be way too big of a boost to the radio system already in place(mabey it needs to be a powered building/plugged in to a generator for 1 AP or something.) I didn't think about that on the talk page, did now.}}
Well, thought I'd copy his comment here for further discussion. It's a good point that this is 2-way radio that zombies cannot prevent - making it '''better''' than current radios in '''two''' ways. Perhaps the batteries have a chance of running out after a certain number of broadcasts, like spray cans? I had something to add, but I forgot what it was. [[Talk:Suggestions|&#39;]][[User:Armareum|arm]][[User_talk:Armareum|.]] 03:22, 14 July 2007 (BST)
:It's not two way Armareum, it's the same radio system but made so that it has a short range and separate frequency set. All this would be is upgrading the radios so zombies can't effect them while getting rid of the spam.--[[User:Karek|karek]] 03:51, 14 July 2007 (BST)
::Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-way_radio begs to differ] with you (and it's '''a'''rmareum, please). And you say 'all' like that is an insignificant change. It's a big change because the current method of mass communication can be interfered with by zombies. Even mobiles can be nerfed (although they are fairly useless anyway). Walkie Talkies cannot - it'd be a permanent improvement to survivor communication. [[Talk:Suggestions|&#39;]][[User:Armareum|arm]][[User_talk:Armareum|.]] 04:31, 14 July 2007 (BST)
:::Why does it have to be a lower case a mister '''''A'''''rmareum?''':P'''.--{{User:Suicidalangel/Sig}} 04:38, 14 July 2007 (BST)
::::It doesn't, Suicid'''e'''angel, I said please. Also, I made the word up and, unfortunately, the wiki forces your first letter to be capitalised so it's easy to thing that it's Armareum, not armareum. Especially since I shortened my sig to [[Talk:Suggestions|&#39;]][[User:Armareum|arm]][[User_talk:Armareum|.]] 04:47, 14 July 2007 (BST)
:::::Actually, I didn't pay attention to your actual name. I was capsing the first letter as a playful poke, thanks for pointing that out though. So, it doesn't make a difference, you'd rather it be lower case? Alright. Sure. I was just curious. Well, later.--{{User:Suicidalangel/Sig}} 04:59, 14 July 2007 (BST)
::::::Oh I understand the wanting it lowercase, I actually have mine lowercase because I prefer karek spelled that way(I capitalized the name according to the wiki spelling). I agree with you completely armareumI believe such a nerf to zombies and addition to survivor communications is absurd. I said all because I view it as a bad thing and without everything else or anything else it is one of the worst things that they could do(even though I'm sure survivors will misuse it anyway it is way too good and actually cuts down the effect of misuse to near null while improving it's effectiveness to a point of making it nothing but a massive buff to survivor communications.) I definitely don't view it as at all insignificant and didn't mean to have it come across that way.--[[User:Karek|karek]] 06:48, 14 July 2007 (BST)

It's not the same radio system at all.  The current system has the following features:
#Any person in a building that has a working transmitter can use that transmitter (at least on some frequencies).
#Any person in a building with a working transmitter can hear all broadcasts made from that building (not sure if that extends to all broadcasts on the frequency).
#Carrying a radio (the kind that doesn't need a generator) does not allow broadcasts.
The walkie talkie (which indeed is meant to be a small two-way radio) has these features:
#Its not set up in a building, and only lets the owner make broadcasts, nobody else.
#Its not set up in a building, and only lets the owner HEAR broadcasts, nobody else.
#It allows (short range) broadcasts from anywhere, and works better outside than inside.
And yeah, it doesn't allow as much spam as a radio.  No suggestion that allowed half as much spam as radios would stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting as far as "undecided" these days.  <sub>[[NT Status Map|.]]</sub> <sup>[[:Category:Imagine|.]]</sup> <sub>[[User:Swiers|. swiers]]</sub> [[Image:BigEYEwitnessLOGO.png|60px]] 16:56, 14 July 2007 (BST)

:Oops, I should have elaborated - I do realise it works in a different way. But because it's ''like'' the current radio system, only '''much''' better (due to no reliance on there being powered buildings to receive or send a message to another player in a different block) I'd like to see some counter to this boost. With this suggestion survivors find it easier '''again''' to metagame just using the map.cgi screen (allowing help from willing survivors not using your forum,etc; whereas zombies still find it hard to metagame effectively without the use of external places.<br>Basically, a suburb (at the moment) could be using a radio frequency to warn allies in other parts of the suburb of attacks and breakins, or other useful info. Zombies can interfere with that by destroying zadios and generators (survivors then have to spend AP to physically carry the message). There is no where in you suggestion where zombies can have any effect. Your suggestion acts as a '''permanent''' upgrade.<br>However, if Walky Talkies had batteries than ran out after a certain number of broadcasts (similar to how spray cans work) survivors would require to continually input AP to benefit from the better form of communication. I feel this would balance it out. [[Talk:Suggestions|&#39;]][[User:Armareum|arm]][[User_talk:Armareum|.]] 01:07, 15 July 2007 (BST)
::Swiers, all of the reasons you posted are exactly why this shouldn't be done.--[[User:Karek|karek]] 10:05, 17 July 2007 (BST)
:::I understand that they are reasons why this is a buff for survivor communication and an improvement over radios, but I don't think that alone is a reason not to do this.  Survivor communication should be FUN, not ANNOYING- because in the end, this is a GAME.  If the improvement in communication ends up altering game balance, there are other ways (fairly simple ways, ways Kevan likely already uses) to address that issue.  Also, I think the walkie talkies are a lot more "realistic" than the current radio system; broadcast transmitters are pretty rare and not at all easy to set up, but two way hand radios are literally sold in grocery stores and are simple to use.  <sub>[[NT Status Map|.]]</sub> <sup>[[:Category:Imagine|.]]</sup> <sub>[[User:Swiers|. swiers]]</sub> [[Image:BigEYEwitnessLOGO.png|60px]] 13:31, 17 July 2007 (BST)
::::It's pretty simple, just add a way zombies can damage them or stall the communications, requiring so much AP to charge batteries or something, or requiring a generator for them to be used or some such thing. The only real issue, at least for me, is that zombies can't do anything about them at all.--[[User:Karek|karek]] 13:44, 17 July 2007 (BST)
:::::AP to change the batteries just makes them annoying to use, it doesn't make it so zombies can stop the communication. (I guess zombies could try to hold all the local PDs and FDs until the supply of hand radios dries up, but...)<br>The powered building "solution" lacks verisimilitude; its an obvious balance cludge, not a logical effect based on the flavor.  If there was some logical reason zombies could damage them... but thre really isn't, not when you consider cell phones.<br>As I've pointed out, there is one thing zombies can do; they can carry walkie talkies and use them to help hunt down the folks who make broadcasts; those folks will be nearby, and any revived zombie could pick up enough WT's to let them listen in on all 10 channels.  That is in fact one reason I made them so easy to find.<br>The (much) simpler way to implement your version of the suggestion would just be to give radio transmitters (or skilled users there of) a new setting for "short range, wide frequency" that let them broadcast to all (existing) radios (regardless of freq setting) within something like a 5 block range.  I believe this was suggested and killed as being pretty awful, for some reason.<br>How about the local cell tower is also a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_repeater radio repeater]?  Without the repeater, the walkie talkies would have a very short range- 1 block.  With a powered repeater in the suburb, they would be able to reach... well, at that point you can logically reach anybody within range of any working repeater, which eliminates the anti-spam benefits.  And it instead becomes a cell phone with spam.  Hmm, or you could assume each suburb's repeater does NOT talk to other repeaters (unlikely, but hey, its a game)... I guess that's not all bad.  Not really the most realistic, but a posibally fun.  I'd still want the 1 block range even without the cell tower working, though.<sub>[[NT Status Map|.]]</sub> <sup>[[:Category:Imagine|.]]</sup> <sub>[[User:Swiers|. swiers]]</sub> [[Image:BigEYEwitnessLOGO.png|60px]] 15:22, 17 July 2007 (BST)<br>
'''Edit - hmm, even better, how about making RADIO TRANSMITTERS be the repeaters?  Just say a WT broadcast would have to be made from within A blocks of a working radio transmitter )or transmitters) to have any sort of useful range.  The area that recieves the broadcast is then the area within B blocks of said radio transmitters.  OK, that I like, but its way complicated...'''  <sub>[[NT Status Map|.]]</sub> <sup>[[:Category:Imagine|.]]</sup> <sub>[[User:Swiers|. swiers]]</sub> [[Image:BigEYEwitnessLOGO.png|60px]] 15:31, 17 July 2007 (BST)

==Just saw this==
{{quote|Swiers|Point 1, zombies can LISTEN to the broadcasts, if they find WT's while alive and set the frequency. (In fact, not needing equipment for other uses, they could carry one WT for each freq.) Which means they would hear LOCAL broadcasts, and could hunt down the broadcaster. Sounds like a form of interference to me.}}
:*Just saw this and thought I'd comment. Any for of buff that requires a zombie to actually seek a revive to make benefit of, or interfere with, it is not really in any way beneficially to zombies. Specifically brain rotted zombies but also any starting zombie or zombie that spent a relatively short time as a survivor. Not everyone has free running and among zombies that is even more true, don't expect them to be able to make use of a revive when it is given to them and the fact that they have to take themselves out of the zombie AP cycle for x amount of time(which could be long if they have most zombie skill or brain rot) and then have to use many times(believe this would be at least 10x, probably over 50x) the AP to be able to gain any type of balance against it and even then the best they can do it look at it and not interfere. Well that's basically them wasting 100s of AP, and temporarily injuring the zombie cause, for the simple benefit of doing nothing. I would say that very much is not balancing, especially because it is quite impossible to monitor every channel or even every local channel because a zombie can not change the station, a decent or half wit operator working for or with a group would have so many options thanks to the lack of intra-suburb interference that they could could change stations every day and not come across a repeat for months.--{{User:Karek/sig}} 07:15, 24 July 2007 (BST)
::*Not every zombie needs to have this ability for it to be a danger to survivors.  If maybe 5% of zombies can hear broadcasts, they can track down the broadcasters and groan out the location.<br>I can't speak for others, but my ZU zombies get revived rather often, and my feral rotter gets faster service at certain rot revive clinics than most survivors get at a normal revive point.  I also can find plenty of fun, zombie helping things to do while waiting to be revived.<br>With walike talkies, it is certainly possible to monitor every broadcast within your range; you just need 10 walkie talkies, one on each frequency.  That might be challenging to get, but its those long-term goals that can make the game fun, IMO.  Zombies need to have some challenges, after all!  15:07, 24 July 2007 (BST)